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Message Number 265942
Re: Oil Ban View Thread
Posted by Rick R on 6/28/10 at 10:23

Marie,

Indeed the handling Katrina left many failures for reflection. A colossal mess between fedaral, state and local actions, inaction and lack of coordination.

If anybody actually played politics by outing a CIA agent compromising national security for personal gain they should be hung from the highest yardarm of the USS Constitution. And according to my personal precondition for capital punishment, anyone fabricating a case for such should receive the same.

Unfortunately many of the people and policies that messed things up are still in charge and in place. The insestuous relationship between wallstreet and the federal government is intact. The system that caused lending to those that can't afford to pay back is still in place. The system that allows the risk of that lending to be on the backs of all while the potential gains of high risk go th a few is still in place.

Rick

Result number: 1

Message Number 265835

Re: Skimming the oil View Thread
Posted by Rick R on 6/22/10 at 14:37

Allie,

A Federal judge just ruled against Obama's 6 month moratorium.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704853404575322942341022322.html?mod=djemalertNEWS

It took Obama's blame czar 3 days to suspend the Jones act after Katrina hit. We also turned 16 barges away because of a concern over life vests and on board fire extinguishers.

I was working in the defense industry on Apache and Chinook helicopters. I know what a regulated industry looks like and I know what that industry looks like in war time. That's a time to cut to the chase and get things done. Suffice it to say the war talk is only talk.

While we screw around with the notion that off shore drilling is bad the US has guaranteed 2 billion in loans to Petrobras to drill of the coast of Brazil. George Soros's hedge fund is a major player in Petrobras trading. How many times did we hear about Cheney and Haliburton? ABC, CBS, NBC??????

Rick

Result number: 2

Message Number 265794

Re: Why is BP important to the British economy View Thread
Posted by John H on 6/18/10 at 12:38

Rick: Yes I have read about the 6-7 experts that the administration quoted as saying they thought the six month moratorium was a good idea. He used their reports as a reason to order a six month moratorium. The experts have now come out and said they said no such thing. In fact, they were very much against it for good reason. Supposedly they received an apology. Some of their reasons were (1) Starting up a rig after it has been shut down is a dangerous operation and could in itself cause leaks. (2) With a shutdown of six months it will likely be that the old experience crews will have moved on to other companies with out all of the problems of BP. New inexperienced crews used on a start up are a danger. (3) The largest and latest rigs with the new technology will have moved on to other nations where they are in need and not be exposed to the Obamas/US extortion's. The experts said that new saftey rules could be accomplished in 30 days not six months. We will be left with older more dangerous rigs. (4) Oil drillers and rigs are already in fear of the U.S. Governments actions and the most modern and efficient ones will be leaving our waters. (5) Insurance on drillers has had a dramatic jump in particular in U.S. waters as there seems to be no limit on damages. By law after Exxon Valdez the limit was $75 million for damages on oil spills. The U.S. had no legal standing to require BP to place 20 billion in escrow which will be managed by just one lawyer appointed by our government. Legally we did not have a leg to stand on. BP appears to be going way beyond what the law requires. Obama says the 20 billion is not a cap and they may come back and want a lot more. It is in our interest to see BP to survive because at some point the BP Chairman may look at the entire situation and take bankruptcy and no one would get anything. Other companies of all sorts are going to look at what Obama has done and think it is much to risky to do business in the U.S. as there is no rule of law that Obama will not trample on. It appears to me BP is doing the best it can and more while Obama likes to say we will keep our boots on the neck of BP. Great rhetoric for a politician that will have unintended consequences. If we thought Bush handled Katrina poorly then Obama has handled this not at all. As always unintended consequences both here and in health care.

Result number: 3

Message Number 265493

Re: Natural Oil Seepage Into Oceans View Thread
Posted by Sunshine on 6/03/10 at 00:23

Calling something you disagree with a conspiracy is just name-calling, it's not evidence that you're right. Telling that you used the phrase 'in the tank' since that's exactly what BP wants to do, get the oil in a tank and sell it, not destroy the well. It means billions for them. You have to admit that that matches what has occurred so far better than your scenario does. But you are right in your defense of BP to bring up their stock price, since that is a big concern of theirs. I heard on CNN that BP was conducting this operation with their shareholders in mind as well as the possible destruction of the oceans and shores. I myself don't give a hoot (nice term) what their stock price is. Hopefully they will be pressured or forced by those with a conscience to stop the oil leak rather than trying to salvage the well and salvage their money-making.

The fishermen who actually live there and make their living there think this is worse than Katrina. They said that when Katrina was over, it was over. There is no end in sight to this. It's not about whether or not the millions of gallons of oil that are being leaked are more or less than the millions of gallons of oil leaked or spilled in another disaster, it's about, among the other environmental disasters, the oil coming ashore and into the marshlands. A hurricane could push oil way up into the marshlands, and hurricane season has just started. And this is predicted to be an especially strong hurricane season.

Comparing an uncontrolled leak of millions of gallons of oil into the ocean to a plane crash (tragic as that is) or even a coal mine collapse (also horrible) is too ludicrous to even bother to refute. Anyone over the age of 5 could do it. I won't bother.

Result number: 4

Message Number 265457

Re: Natural Oil Seepage Into Oceans View Thread
Posted by john H on 6/01/10 at 13:30

I can see absolutely no reason why BP would not be doing everything they know how to do. Their reputation and stock price goes further in the tank each day. The cost to BP each day is enormous. As big as BP is, it is even possible they could face some sort of bankruptcy if they do not contain the oil flow. Not only are BP engineers working on this but the best engineers from Exxon-Mobile and other large oil companies are working side by side at the Houston Headquarters that has been set up to come up with a solution. At this moment the best, most qualified people in the world are working on this. There will always be conspiracy theorist out there.

The government certainly has no one better qualified than the best in the oil business have to offer and have openly said so.

At this point we are still a long way from the largest oil spill in history that occurred in the gulf. It was the Ixtox 1 oil spill in 1979 and released 480,000 tons of oil into the Gulf of Mexico.

The Gulf War Oil spill amounted to 1,500,000 tons of oil.

The Kern County Oil Spill in the USA in 1909 amounted to 1,230,000 tons of oil.

There are more than a dozen oil spills at this point, some of which are in deep water, that have exceeded the Deep Water Horizon. If they are not able to contain the spill until August, when the expected new drill holes are complete, then we may rise up significantly.
That this is a nightmare disaster. There is no question. Is it worse than Katrina? I doubt it.

One thing is certain in my mind is that this cannot be another Three Mile Island where there have been no nuclear plants built in over 30 years. Oil must continued to be drilled for in the ocean. When a plane crashes and kills hundreds of people you do not shut down the air line industry. When a coal mine explodes and kills many people you do not shut down all coal mines. Drilling for oil is dangerous and there will be spills and deaths. That is a known. That we need oil for our nations economy to function is a given.

Result number: 5

Message Number 265417

Re: Oil & Politicians View Thread
Posted by marie:) on 5/29/10 at 16:02

Well, John I feel many on the far right are still trying to shed the lack luster response on Katrina. I am not trying to dilute the oil issue because it's very serious......but a far cry from the emotions of Katrina. The difference is that Americans watched in horror the tragedy of human suffering while their leaders seemed to be disengaged. I believe that's when things turned for the Bush administration. In the end much knowledge was gained and hopefully new procedures put into place.

Still President Obama does need to communicate effectively the federal government's role in all of the effort to stop the leak. In addition make sure there is a point man that reports and updates often. I'm not sure what people think the government can do differently then BP as they are the ones best equipped to do something. I just hope they get it plugged soon........very soon. In the end lets hope the oil drilling companies will more then learn something from all of this to prevent it from ever happening again.

Result number: 6

Message Number 265236

Re: Natural Oil Seepage Into Oceans View Thread
Posted by John H on 5/19/10 at 12:43

Rick: I have been doing a lot of reading on this recently. There are literally thousands of of oil rigs in the ocean. There are some that drill as deep as 12,000 feet. Drilling at these deep levels is like our early flights into space. Much is still unknown as the temperatures and pressures at 5000 feet or 12000 feet are almost unimaginable. Deep drilling is here to stay as the world needs the oil and there is no substitute. Accidents are very common and you rarely read about most of them as this type of drilling is going on all over the world. Obama seems to understand you just cannot stop drilling off shore. If we do not then some other nation will. BP is doing everything humanly possible to stop the flow and at any expense. The best engineers from Exxon-Mobile and Chevron are also working with them in a command headquarters in Houston where they have over 500 scientist and engineers. They can watch the subs cameras and even control the robotics of the subs from this command headquarters. They have hundreds if not thousands of people along the water front from New Orleans eastward to pick up any oil. They have hired many of the fishing boats in oil recovery. They are using every day the chemical that breaks up oil and are also burning oil where possible. From reading the papers you would think they were sitting on their duffs They are spending tens of millions of dollars a DAY and have not even got into the law suits that are to come. Deep water or even shallow water drilling is not unlike coal mining. There is no way to keep accidents from happening. You can only hope to limit them and learn as you go as we did in space. From day one the politicians have been pointing fingers trying to make points. First lets stop the oil, Then have a fact finding study of how this happened and what we can do better in the future. The politics actually slows the repair process down. Ocean water drilling is here to stay for a hundred years or more as every nation needs oil that cannot all come from the Cartel. We will always have accidents in flying, coal mining, with cars, oil drilling and just walking down the street. There is not such thing as we often hear 'so it will never happen again.' BP to me is doing all it can as its competitors such as Exxon and Chevron who have joined in the fight. Still this is not as bad as the Exxon Valdes at this point. I am not saying this is not a catastrophic event but it is no Katrina and humans are doing the best they can to contain the damage. Government does not have a clue how to stop the oil flow. The best engineers in the world are all in Houston working on the problem 24/7. Government should not be a problem. They should stay out of the way in areas where they cannot really help and point fingers and hold hearings after the problem is solved.

Result number: 7

Message Number 264999

BP & Other View Thread
Posted by John H on 5/05/10 at 12:42

First estimates are that it will cost BP 15 billion dollars to clean up the oil spill. They seem to be making some progress as they have stopped two of the leaks. Thursday they will lower a 98 tonne concrete funnel shaped dome over the major leak with the funnel end facing up. This, if it works, will be able to let them capture the oil as it exits the funnel. This has never been tried at a level of 5000 feet. The enormous pressures at this depth make any attempts very difficult. The chemicals they are dropping from aircraft also are doing what they are designed to do and that is break up the oil into little droplets that want rise to the surface and make it easier to recover. It also helps prevent the oil from sticking to wildlife and vegetation. The companies who make this product are totally sold out and are continuing to make it as fast as they can. BP also makes the product. Currently the weather has turned favorable and the spill is slowing in its move towards the coast. That of course can change at any moment.

My fear, as are many other people, is that this accident will stop further drilling. This would be an enormous mistake. The Governor of California has alread said he is withdrawing his support of off shore drilling. Just as Three Mile Island stopped all Nuclear Plants from being built for 30 years. Our need for oil will not diminish and if we do not drill we will be beholden to the Middle East for much of our oil. Further more oil will continue to come in by enormous tankers which are more subject to oil leaks and damage than drilling (Exxon Valdez). Wind and solar supply around 2% of our energy needs and will not be a factor for decades to come. We will have to increase our use of coal of which we have an endless supply. Unfortunately cars do not run on coal and we are likely to need oil in large quantities for the next 50 years. We do not want to cut off our nose to spite our face. Recovering energy is a dangerous business and accidents will happen. Coal, Nuclear,oil all are risky endeavors. Our politicians are already looking for a scapegoat and we do not have a clue what caused the accident. We still do not know what caused the explosion in the coal mining accident. BP has had an excellent safety record in the past and they drill all over the world. They have agreed to take total responsibility for the cost of the clean up and legitimate claims by those who have been injured in one way or the other. No one at BP wanted such a thing to happen and already there are reports in the media some disgruntled employee or Middle East bad guy may have intentionally caused this. The media will jump at anything to create a story. There are thousands of young journalist out there who are looking to make their bones. Sometimes they do not care how they do it.

I am interested in the legal part of this story. BP is a British Company and they hired the employees so they are responsibility for the actions of the employees. I assume they were drilling outside of the 10 mile limit so would be in international waters. I further assume they operate under the laws of the United Kingdom and internationl laws of the seas. They appear to be a socially responsible company in that they have agreed to pay for damages. Operating in International Waters and being a foreign nation just what could we do if they were a nation like North Korea who might say 'tough luck America'? Are there any international laws covering accidents like this? Could Congress set up one of its infamous committees and force BP to testify? Lawyers are already running up and down the coast passing out cards and asking directly 'If you want to sue call us'. In years gone by they would not have been so direct and might have said 'if you need legal help please call us'. The law profession has sunken to new lows in the past 30 or so years with their outrageous adds on TV and billboards everywhere. Nearly every year in my community The first and most expensive ad int the phone directory is always an ad by a law firm.

From the pictures taken from space yesterday the size of the oil slick has shrunken considerably. This was most likely caused by the chemicals BP is dropping 24/7.

Some idiots even and especially in Congress are suggesting that Obama should have been faster and done more. That is idiotic. He cannot stop a leak and so far none of our American experts have any better ideas than BP on stopping the leak. This is the same thing that happened to Bush with Katrina. When a disaster of some sort happens people immediately look for someone to blame even before we know what caused the accident or even if we know what caused the accident. It happens with earthquakes, hurricanes, and man induced accidents. People will continue to be killed in coal mines, aircraft, on oil wells and any other place that dangerous activity occurs. Life is a risk ever time you walk out the door.

When you look at the history of our earth the oil spill is a pebble on the beach. The largest volcano on earth sits in the middle of Yellow Stone National Park. It has erupted before with consequences beyond our imagination. Based on past history it is over due for an eruption. There is no preparing for such an event. California sits on top of an enormous fault. Experts say it is not if but when the big earthquake will hit. The oil spill will be stopped and the world will move on and events we do not even want to think about are waiting in the wings.

Events in the Euro-Zone (Greece,Spain,Portugal) may well be much more damaging than the oil spill. Not only to the Euro-Zone but also to our economy.
The Dow Jones Industrial dropped over 200 points yesterday. Not as a result of the oil spill but as the result of the problems in the Euro-Zone. Based on what I am seeing we do not need to copy the economics of Europe as many in our Congress would do. I would say the same thing about medical care as would over half of American Citizens.

Result number: 8

Message Number 264972

Re: Lemon aide and Oil View Thread
Posted by john H on 5/03/10 at 13:20

Dr. Z: I think the open ocean is open to drilling by anyone. I think nations control the oceans that bordered them out to 10 miles. at one Some nations like North Korea may claim more. That being said there is a lot of oil being drilled that we have no control over. I would suspect that some of these drillers have a lot less safety controls than the drillers like Exxon-Mobile, Chevron on BP. We may learn something from the current BP spill or we may learn nothing. Of course, government will issue a lot of new directives and we will likely make it harder to get drilling permits in waters we control. As I understand it, BP had three emergency shut down devices. Why none of them could be activated may never be known. A large explosion can destroy a lot of evidence. The evidence is largely one mile under the ocean and there are no 'black boxes' like in aircraft. My guess is we will have a big hearing that will not really conclude much. Not unlike the coal disaster. BP is a British company and I do not know if we just leased the equipment and BP hired American workers to drill for the oil for the U.S. The CEO of BP has publically stated that BP accepts full responsibility so that does not seem to be an issue. When all this gets into the courts the fact that BP is a foreign nation will likely present some problems. Losses will run into the billions of dollars or more it seems.

As a rescue pilot I have been involved in many accident investigations as a member of the board as well as an eye witness. Many of these there was nothing much left bigger than a loaf of bread. Crews can be totally evaporated as well as much of the aircraft. The point being is that investigation boards sometimes cannot find the cause but will make a finding. In my personal experience I have on rare occasion found these findings to be absurd. Up the chain of command these boards are expected to find a cause and a solution where it will never happen again

There are few things in this life that never happen again, especially coal mine and aircraft fatalities. No matter what new procedures we come up with. Perhaps the most costly disaster of this century was Katrina. What is our answer to that? We build a city right back were it was below sea level. With absolutely no hope of stopping the same thing from happening again. We blame government for not doing enough. It is only a matter of time until another Level 5 hurricane hits this city once again with the same or worse results. Maybe a few months or maybe a few decades but it will happen. The cure was to relocate the city. We know the risk and have decided to accept it. Same with the people who reside along the Mississippi on ground below sea level. Year after year these people are devastated by floods and the government supplied insurance allows the residents to build right back in the same spot.

I have vacationed at the gulf coast beaches for over 40 years. They are some of the most beautiful white sand beaches in the world. If the gulf stream currents pickup any of this oil it would be very easy to reach places like Gulf Shores, AL, Pensacola Beach, Destin and Panama City Beaches. These places exist almost entirely on tourist who come to enjoy the beaches. I expect in the end we will stop the oil in three months or less. Then we can really measure the damage that has been done. Bad things happen to good people. Always have and always will.

Result number: 9
Searching file 25

Message Number 259381

Re: Food banks include pets View Thread
Posted by john h on 8/04/09 at 15:11

Once each week a large truck pulling an air conditioned trailer pulls up at Pets Mart in Little Rock. We still have a lot of pets left in Little Rock from Katrina. On to this truck and trailer the animals are placed in pet carriers.The pets are headed to the far north eastern states like Maine. These pets have already been adapted. The availabilityof pets for adaption are apparently not so numerous in some areas. I looked in the trailer and it is very nice and well equipped. The animals have been examined by a vet prior to the trip and delivery to the new owners.

Meantime I have seven cats all of who were strays who just wondered in and stayed. I have had them for over 10 years now. I had several more I found homes for but these are not so pretty as cats go but after 10 years this is their home. One developed diabetes a year ago and I have had to give him two shots daily. He is old but looking good and has never missed an injecton. He pays no attention when I give him the shot so I must be good at it. Cats uses the same insulin as humans. I lost one of the cats on Haloween from basically old age. He was 17. On the same day he died (Haloween) a solid black cat about one year old showed up in my drive way begging for food. No colar and he had not been neutered. You guessed it we now have a solid black spoiled cat. I have accused my neighbor of placing him in my driveway as she knows I will take in lost animals. Although she still denies it I still think she did it as she is also an animal lover and has 4 dogs and two cats.

Result number: 10

Message Number 258057

Re: Unemployment View Thread
Posted by john h on 6/10/09 at 13:34

The Czar Tim Geithner has approved some of the larger banks to pay back $68 billion dollars of TARP money. Strange you need approval to pay back a loan. Wish my lenders were like that. Now what do you think should happen to that $68 billion payback? I think reasonable people would say use it to pay down the national debt since every household in America owes over $550,000.00 dollars. Makes sense to me. But not so fast John. Uncle Tim is going to put it into a slush fund for future emergencies. I read we now have appointed over 15 CZAR's and are about to appoint a TSAR. Am I in Russia. If I am then Tim Geithner is Ivan The Terrible. It seems that one branch of our government has gone suddenly silent. That would be Congress. They now take their orders from the Commander in Chief. Instead of Uncle Billy we now have Aunt Nancy burning as she goes. Am I the only one that thinks our leadership in Washington has lost their way and does not understand the meaning of debt. Our lenders will soon enough remind them.

Interesting reading:

'Czar Power
Ranjay Gulati, 01.07.09, 04:45 PM EST
The problem with silos in Washington is that issues fall between them.



Czarist solutions to our daunting array of national crises are suddenly everywhere. At current growth rates, we are likely to have a car czar, an energy czar, a financial sector czar and a health sector czar. Who knows how many more will be either named or in place by the time Barack Obama actually takes office?

It seems America is turning into pre-Bolshevik Russia. Can the Cossacks be far behind?
Don't get me wrong. Strong leaders and at least a partially unfettered hand are vital to pulling us out of the many messes we are in. To make any headway against Washington's--and the nation's--entrenched interests, these presidential designees must have the authority to cut through red tape and take quick action when necessary. But if our new czars are as autocratic as their nicknames imply, we could be in for worse, not better, times, even if they are all more like Peter the Great than Ivan the Terrible.

Almost inevitably, these appointments will go to forceful personalities celebrated for their leadership skills. Faced with rescuing entire sectors of our economy, the czars will hire A-list cadres of aides. Directives will follow; power will gravitate to the positions. And if history is any guide, Washington, instead of fostering solutions, will have added yet another tier of self-protective, self-interested silos to its already impressive landscape.

The fact is the dire state of America today is not only the result of faulty leadership but also of systemic organizational failures--specifically, the inability of highly differentiated but non-collaborative government entities to work with each other. Whether in government or business, these silo-type entities provide excellent local accountability and focus, but at a heavy price.

The downside usually comes in the form of structural blind spots of opportunity that are invisible because they lie between silos. Sept. 11 could have been prevented if someone had connected the dots across disparate intelligence branches. A poorly functioning czarist system can also lead to disconnected actions by individual units even when circumstances call for unity.

We saw these patterns during the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Rather than consider the suffering people on the ground and pool forces to deliver the relief they so desperately needed, the disparate government agencies involved argued over jurisdictional overlaps and fought to protect, not share, the products and services each was charged with delivering. And we will see the same behavior again if we turn inordinate authority over to men and women more adept at tough talk than coordinated action.

Comment On This Story
Sure, getting the domestic auto industry back on its feet requires some arm-twisting, but it also demands cooperation across multiple agencies--hardly the hallmark of a czarist approach. The Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department, which are dealing with the funding side, will need to work with Environmental Protection Agency, which will nudge manufacturers to produce environmentally efficient cars.'




I

Result number: 11

Message Number 252164

Re: patriots think and vote View Thread
Posted by Susan on 11/12/08 at 12:07

And the Republican elite dangle conservative social values that they themselves don't give a hoot about in front of low and moderate income religious folks purely in order to win elections and then steal those folks blind. Trust me, the Republican elite are laughing (at you) all the way to the bank with YOUR money when they win.

You would have been the first to scream about your tax dollars if they had been used in Iowa to the extent you are saying they should have been, given that those people were able to get out and get to relatives and friends close by, and most of them didn't need the kind or amount of federal help that was needed after Katrina. Do you really think FEMA did nothing to help in Iowa?

Halliburton hurricane machine? What right-wing operation comes up with such wacky ideas? Somebody doesn't have enough to do.

Result number: 12

Message Number 252123

Re: patriots think and vote View Thread
Posted by larry m on 11/11/08 at 12:03

For once tell the truth? How long have you been thread stalking me to come up with that opinion? Katrina was and is what happens when liberal policies and government runs amok. You had what was equal to a human livestock farm. I know Nagin, teh Governor and all the local politicians were helpless. What about the lowlife Jefferson that was using national guard coptors and vehicles to get his box of stolen cash from his house when the storm hit. All of those idiots were elected by the citizens. Elected over and over for years. They dropped the ball and did t prepare. You also had a group of citizens that sat and waited. Nagin the dummy let all those buses sit and get soaked.

The indians told the french several centuries ago not to build a city where you can reach out and touch the bottom of ships as you walk down the street. Many of the people that were shipped out were welcomed in other cities. That is until they acted up and were not welcome. Where was all the outrage about the floods in Iowa? Why didnt you see a bucnh of them screaming and yelling about Bush and when will all the help come? I wont bother on this point any more since you obviously are on of those people that covets a nanny state that produces a voting block for dems that is nothing but a human livestock farm. Soooooooo here is your version of 'the truth'


Bush and Cheney used the Haliburton mHurricane Machine to start all the hurricaines. They did it to steal oil and they needed more time so they ruined all the levee's that Clinton spent billions fixing after Bush 1 ruined them looking for oil to steal. Bush2 then sent a secret memo written by Rove to all of the politicians from NO and LA telling them to sit tight and do nothing if a Flood came. He said he had their back and to just stay put and wait for the feds to come in and take care of everything. Ray Nagin tried to leave and help several times but Bush had Navy Seals hold him at gun point. They also forced Nagin to make videos where he showed leadership by crying and acting like a teenage girl that missed her prom

How is that for your truth?

Result number: 13

Message Number 252091

Re: patriots think and vote View Thread
Posted by vsmith on 11/10/08 at 16:49

Larry for once tell the truth, do you really believe Bush did a great job on Katrina? i await your answer but clearly since you are a Bush man you are sure to think Bush did a great job in response to katrina.

Result number: 14

Message Number 250130

Little Rock, Gas, Storm View Thread
Posted by john h on 9/12/08 at 19:15

Just after noon today in Little Rock rumors begin to circulate about rising gas prices resulting from the hurricane. 25% of the refined oil comes out of the general Houston area. By 7pm gas prices at the pumps in Little Rock had jumped from $.50 to $.75 per gallon and stations were running out of gas and lines were forming. At least one station was charging over $5.00 per gallon. This is what panic can do. The state Attorney General is going after price gougers hard so he says. I expect gas prices nation wide to spike depending on how much the refineries are damaged and oil rig damages. It took over 9 months for some refineries to come back on full capacity after Katrina. What is that saying? 'When it rains it pours'.

We are probably 600 miles or so from Houston but are already starting to receive wind and rain. Tomorrow and Sunday we are expected to receive 3' to 7' of rain with 40 mph winds as the storm passes over Little Rock. Our grounds are saturated from the recent hurricane Gustav that passed over Little Rock as it moved North so we have state wide flood advisories. One thing we are not short on in Little Rock is water with many lakes and rivers and dams. It was in the 90's today but Monday we are supposed to have a high in the upper 60's and clear. I flew a few hurricane hunter missions many years ago. The aircraft then were not nearly as stable as today. Not a piece of cake.

Result number: 15
Searching file 24

Message Number 249879

Re: Not so fast............... View Thread
Posted by marie:) on 9/05/08 at 20:18

Well ok then you want a list here it goes........;)

Education:

BA in political science (with a specialization in international relations) from Columbia University.

JD Graduate of Harvard Law School (Juris Doctor degree, magna__laude).

President of the Harvard Law Review (the first ever African American).


Experience:

Civil rights attorney (turned down a prestigious judicial clerkship1)

Constitutional law professor.

Community organizer.

State Senator.

Chairman of the Illinois State Senate Health and Human Services Committee.

US Senator.

Member of the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Environment and Public Works Committee, and Veterans ’ Affairs Committee.

Author.

Husband and father of two daughters.

Board member of the Joyce Foundation, the Woods Fund of Chicago, and the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.


Honors:

Grammy award winner (Spoken Word category).

Honored by the National Academy of Recording Arts & Sciences (for narration of one of his books).

Honorary doctor of laws degree from the University of Massachusetts Boston (for among other things, 'advancing and protecting the interests of the less fortunate'2)


Seems rather experienced to me...


References:

1. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1682433/bio

2. http://www.umb.edu/news/2006news/releases/may/060526_ob...


http://www.barackobama.com /
http://hopefundamerica.com /

Still more..................

Nonproliferation: the poster child for issues that people ought to care about, but don't. Here Obama has teamed up with Richard Lugar (R-IN). How did this happen? Here's the Washington Monthly:

'By most accounts, Obama and Lugar's working relationship began with nukes. On the campaign trail in 2004, Obama spoke passionately about the dangers of loose nukes and the legacy of the Nunn-Lugar nonproliferation program, a framework created by a 1991 law to provide the former Soviet republics assistance in securing and deactivating nuclear weapons. Lugar took note, as “nonproliferation” is about as common a campaign sound-bite for aspiring senators as “exchange-rate policy” or “export-import bank oversight.”'


The way to a wonk's heart: campaign on securing Russian loose nukes. -- In any case, in addition to working on nuclear non-proliferation, Obama and Lugar co-sponsored legislation expanding the Nunn-Lugar framework (which basically allows the US to fund the destruction or securing of nuclear weapons in other countries) to deal with conventional arms. From an op-ed Obama and Lugar wrote on their legislation:

'These vast numbers of unused conventional weapons, particularly shoulder-fired antiaircraft missiles that can hit civilian airliners, pose a major security risk to America and democracies everywhere. That's why we have introduced legislation to seek out and destroy surplus and unguarded stocks of conventional arms in Asia, Europe, Latin America, Africa and the Middle East.

Our bill would launch a major nonproliferation initiative by addressing the growing threat from unsecured conventional weapons and by bolstering a key line of defense against weapons of mass destruction. Modeled after the successful Nunn-Lugar program to dismantle former Soviet nuclear weapons, the Lugar-Obama bill would seek to build cooperative relationships with willing countries.

One part of our initiative would strengthen and energize the U.S. program against unsecured lightweight antiaircraft missiles and other conventional weapons, a program that has for years been woefully underfunded. There may be as many as 750,000 missiles, known formally as man-portable air defense systems, in arsenals worldwide. The State Department estimates that more than 40 civilian aircraft have been hit by such weapons since the 1970s. Three years ago terrorists fired missiles at -- and missed -- a jetliner full of Israeli tourists taking off from Mombasa, Kenya. In 2003 a civilian cargo plane taking off from Baghdad was struck but landed safely.

Loose stocks of small arms and other weapons also help fuel civil wars in Africa and elsewhere and, as we have seen repeatedly, provide ammunition for those who attack peacekeepers and aid workers seeking to stabilize and rebuild war-torn societies. The Lugar-Obama measure would also seek to get rid of artillery shells like those used in the improvised roadside bombs that have proved so deadly to U.S. forces in Iraq.

Some foreign governments have already sought U.S. help in eliminating their stocks of lightweight antiaircraft missiles and millions of tons of excess weapons and ammunition. But low budgets and insufficient leadership have hampered destruction. Our legislation would require the administration to develop a response commensurate with the threat, consolidating scattered programs at the State Department into a single Office of Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction. It also calls for a fivefold increase in spending in this area, to $25 million -- a relatively modest sum that would offer large benefits to U.S. security.

The other part of the legislation would strengthen the ability of America's friends and allies to detect and intercept illegal shipments of weapons of mass destruction or material that could be used in a nuclear, chemical or biological weapon. Stopping weapons of mass destruction in transit is an important complement to our first line of defense, the Nunn-Lugar program, which aims to eliminate weapons of mass destruction at their source.'


Dealing with unsecured stocks of shoulder-fired missiles and other kinds of conventional weapons, stocks that might fall into anyone's hands, be sold on the black market, and end up being used against our troops or our citizens, or fueling civil wars that tear countries apart -- it seems to me that this is an excellent thing to spend one's time on.

Avian flu: Obama was one of the first Senators to speak out on avian flu, back in the spring of 2005, when it was a quintessentially wonky issue, not the subject of breathless news reports. There's a list of Democratic efforts on avian flu here; Obama shows up early and often. He has sponsored legislation, including what I think is the first bill dedicated to pandemic flu preparedness. It's a good bill, providing not just for vaccine research and antiviral stockpiles, but for the kinds of state and local planning and preparedness that will be crucial if a pandemic occurs. (I was also very interested to note that it requires the Secretary of HHS to contract with the Institute of Medicine for a study of 'the legal, ethical, and social implications of, with respect to pandemic influenza'. This is actually very important, and not everyone would have thought of it.)

He has also spoken out consistently on this topic, beginning long before it was hot. Here, for instance, is another op-ed by Obama and Lugar:

'We recommend that this administration work with Congress, public health officials, the pharmaceutical industry, foreign governments and international organizations to create a permanent framework for curtailing the spread of future infectious diseases.

Among the parts of that framework could be these:

Increasing international disease surveillance, response capacity and public education and coordination, especially in Southeast Asia.

Stockpiling enough antiviral doses to cover high-risk populations and essential workers.

Ensuring that, here at home, Health and Human Services and state governments put in place plans that address issues of surveillance, medical care, drug and vaccine distribution, communication, protection of the work force and maintenance of core public functions in case of a pandemic.

Accelerating research into avian flu vaccines and antiviral drugs.

Establishing incentives to encourage nations to report flu outbreaks quickly and fully.'


This is very good policy, especially the parts about increasing surveillance and response capacity here and abroad. (Effect Measure approves too.)

Regulating Genetic Testing: It was while I was reading about this issue that I first thought: gosh, Barack Obama seems to turn up whenever I am reading about some insanely wonky yet important issue. And this one is not just off the radar; it and the radar are in different universes. Anyways:

You might be surprised to learn that there is very little quality control over genetic testing. I was. If I offer some genetic test, I can basically say what I like about what it will reveal, so long as I avoid violating the laws against fraud. And if you think about how easy it would be to avoid those laws just by talking about, say, a test for some gene that has been found to be slightly associated with increased IQ, you can see how many deceptive (but not legally fraudulent) claims this allows.

Moreover -- and more seriously -- there is very little oversight of the quality of labs that do tests -- that is, whether or not they tend to get the right answers when they do those tests. There is a law (passed in response to evidence that significant numbers of people were getting incorrect results on pap smears) that requires what's called proficiency testing for labs. But though the law requires that the government develop special proficiency tests for labs that do work requiring special kinds of knowledge, and though genetic testing plainly fits that bill, the government has not developed any proficiency tests for genetic testing labs.

This is serious, and bad. Suppose you are mistakenly informed that you are a carrier for some horrible disease: you might decide never to have kids. Suppose you have a fetus tested and you are told that it has, say, Downs' syndrome: you might abort. To do these things as the result of a lab error would be horrible.

Not nearly as horrible as the results of some false negatives, though. Consider this case (from a very good report on the topic):

'A Florida couple both tested negative for the genetic mutation that causes Tay-Sachs, a fatal childhood disease. Two copies of the mutation are required to cause the disease. The couple learned that the test results were incorrect for both parents when their son began exhibiting symptoms of Tay-Sachs shortly after birth. He died eight years later'


Tay-Sachs is an unbelievably horrible disease:

'Infants with Tay-Sachs disease appear to develop normally for the first few months of life. Then, as nerve cells become distended with fatty material, a relentless deterioration of mental and physical abilities occurs. The child becomes blind, deaf, and unable to swallow. Muscles begin to atrophy and paralysis sets in. Other neurological symptoms include dementia, seizures, and an increased startle reflex to noise. (...)

Even with the best of care, children with Tay-Sachs disease usually die by age 4, from recurring infection.'


So imagine this: you know that you and your spouse are at risk for carrying this disease. You both get tested; neither is a carrier. You give birth to an apparently healthy child. But after a few months, the child you love stops developing normally, and it turns out that both your test and your spouses were misinterpreted, or screwed up, or whatever, and as a result your child is going to die a horrible death by the age of four. Oops!

In your copious free time, you can think of more cases in which screwing up a genetic test would be disastrous. After you get through with the cases involving children and inherited diseases, consider the effects of misreading a genetic test and informing a man that he is not the father of his child when in fact he is. The possibilities are endless.

You can probably guess who has introduced legislation that addresses this problem. The people who wrote the initial report think it's good.

Reducing medical malpractice suits the right way: Contrary to popular belief, medical malpractice claims do not do much to drive up health care costs. Still, medical malpractice litigation is a problem. Tort reform would address this problem at the expense of people who have been the victims of real, serious medical malpractice, who would lose their right to sue, or have it curtailed. If you read the medical literature, however, it turns out that there's a much better way to minimize malpractice suits, namely: apologizing. Strange to say, it turns out that people are a lot less likely to sue when doctors and hospitals admit their mistakes up front, compensate the patients involved fairly, and generally treat people with respect. It certainly would have helped in this case:

'A Sanford mother says she will never be able to hold her newborn because an Orlando hospital performed a life-altering surgery and, she claims, the hospital refuses to explain why they left her as a multiple amputee.

The woman filed a complaint against Orlando Regional Healthcare Systems, she said, because they won't tell her exactly what happened. The hospital maintains the woman wants to know information that would violate other patients' rights.'


I'd want to know what happened too, if someone cut off all my arms and legs. And in a case like this, if it was malpractice, limiting the damages a person can collect doesn't seem like the right answer, somehow.

Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton teamed up to introduce legislation aimed at helping hospitals to develop programs for disclosure of medical errors. (They describe it in this NEJM article.) Again, I think it's good policy: this really is what the evidence suggests is the best way to reduce malpractice claims, and it does it without curtailing the rights of people who have already been injured through no fault of their own. Moreover, when people feel free to discuss their errors, they are much more likely to figure out ways to avoid repeating them. (The legislation provides support for this.) And that's the best way of all to deal with malpractice claims: by addressing the causes of medical malpractice itself.

***

Those are some of the more prominent things he's done. There are others: introducing legislation to make it illegal for tax preparers to sell personal information, for instance, and legislation on chemical plant security and lead paint. He has done other things that are more high-profile, including:


* His 'health care for hybrids' bill

* An Energy Security Bill

* Various bills on relief for Hurricane Katrina, including aid for kids and a ban on no-bid contracts by FEMA

* A public database of all federal spending and contracts

* Trying to raise CAFE standards

* Veterans' health care

* Making certain kinds of voter intimidation illegal

* A lobbying reform bill (with Tom Coburn), which would do all sorts of good things, notably including one of my perennial favorites, requiring that bills be made available to members of Congress at least 72 hours before they have to vote on them.

* And a proposal to revamp ethics oversight, replacing the present ethics Committee with a bipartisan commission of retired judges and members of Congress, and allowing any citizen to report ethics violations. This would have fixed one of the huge problems with the present system, namely: that the members have to police themselves.

Result number: 16

Message Number 246379

Re: Chronic Plantar Fasciitis View Thread
Posted by Ernie C. on 4/27/08 at 16:12

Dear Dr. DSW here's what else is going on after my doctor sent me back to therapy he also gave me a prescription for triple density orthotics, I had the prescription filled of cost out-of-pocket $350.00 well they didn't help at all. The pain is, right now I don't know the right word to use for the constant pain that I have in my feet. After seeing my doctor several more times and one of his residents telling me that he thinks I might have what you call RSD, the resident said he would mentioned it to my doctor once he came into the room, well Dr. DSW when my doctor came into the room and the resident mentioned that he believe I might have RSD he immediately told the resident and I quote 'Oh no she doesn't have that' let me look at her chart again and see exactly what they did to her foot. Well that was a surprise to me because my doctor informed me that he himself was not going to be performing my surgery but that he was going to be in the operating room with the resident who was going to be doing the surgery. I just couldn't believe what I just heard my doctor say and just wanted to get out of their. Because by now the doctor that I first met in June was not the same doctor I was dealing with after my surgery. This doctor was like night and day, he seem to become very angry with me that the surgery was not a success and that I was still having pain in fact more pain in that left foot after the surgery now than I had, had before the surgery. I sought out the help of another doctor, I brought all of my paperwork to this doctor he look at my foot and asked me what type of surgery I had. I informed him that I had a partail plantar fascia release, he immediately said no way. Than he said well I mean there's no way I can see how he could have cut the liagment with the type cut you have on your foot. He lift my foot into his hand and and drew with an ink pen how the cut should have been made if you perform a partial plantar fascia release. My cut on my left foot is vertical and the doctor drew a horizontal cut. He asked to see my paperwork to verify if in fact I may have made a mistake about the type of surgery my doctor had performed on my foot. But when he look at my paperwork he said well that's what he said he did but I can't see it. This made me very nervous now. So I went to another doctor and all I told this doctor was that I had a partial plantar fascia release on September 17, 2007 and that I'm still having a lot of pain in fact the pain is worst now. This doctor asked to look at my foot and I couldn't believe what happen next. But that doctor asked me to see my paperwork to see what type of surgery was done on my foot. He stated that's not how you do a parial plantar fascia release, the cut is wrong. It was like de ja vu he lift my foot up and drew with his ink pen where the cut should have been made. Dr. DSW it was the identical spot where the other doctor had made the mark on my foot. I asked this doctor to please to a look at my x-rays so he did, he asked me if my doctor had cut out the heel spurs and I replied no, I was told by my doctor that he could not do anything about the heel spurs, this doctor told me that he could have cut them out. He said as long as you have the heel spurs in your foot you are going to always have the pain in your feet. I asked this doctor to please take me on as a patient and he said he would because there is other things that can be done to eliminate the pain or even reduce the pain. Dr. DSW that was the happiest day in my life, he told me to give him all of my paperwork from my other doctors and allow him two weeks to digest it and schedule another appointment. I did, when I went back for my follow-up appointment the doctor came out into the waiting room, I was the only patience there because I had the first appointment after their lunch break, told me he was sorry but that he could not help me and that he should have told me that ahead of time and went back into his office. I was in a state of shock my brain just shut down where I could not think at all because I didn't know what just happen. I have been on my job for 26 years as a manager, my duties and responsibilities requires me to stand anywhere from 12 to 16 hours a day and I have done that for 26 years. I'm out of work right now without a check from my job because I have exhausted all of my annual and sick leave. I have a claim with OWCP that was accepted however they have refused to pay me because my claim examiner say's my doctor is not filling out my paperwork properly. I've losted my home once because of hurricane Katrina and would hate to lose my home again because of this. I'm just trying to find a doctor that can give me my life back, I have/had a six figure paying job. My job is not willng to offer me reasonable accomodation or reassignment because of the physical requirements of my job that I hold and because of my medical condition. Dr. DSW where do I go from here.

Result number: 17

Message Number 242822

Re: bruising from astym...does this happen in graston, too? View Thread
Posted by Katrina H on 2/05/08 at 18:43

Hey Jen,
For what it's worth--I've had ASTYM done for chronic PF, and it totally took care of it. Difference between ASTYM and Graston, far as I can tell, is that ASTYM is only provided by physical therapists, which makes me think that Golf Solutions person is probably a safe bet.

I had PF for 25 years, was training for a marathon and in horrendous pain, and had ASTYM done. The first two sessions were...well, intense. A lot of bruising. The third session was MUCH easier, and it was all better from there.

Also--I think Graston only does the manual treatment, whereas I really appreciated that ASTYM treatment also incorporated specific stretches and strengthening that helped a lot. I still run, and my PF is gone. I have to be ultra-careful to keep stretching, but I'm a big fan of ASTYM.

Good luck,

Katrina

Result number: 18

Message Number 241096

Re: take test for your vote View Thread
Posted by marie:) on 12/20/07 at 14:30

Who knows it may be Obama vs. Huckabee

At this moment in time Clinton, Obama and Edwards are pretty much tied in Iowa. The most likely supporters to jump ship are for Edwards. If that's the case my guess is that they will gravitate towards Obama rather then Clinton. Just a guess.

I pretty much like both Obama and Huckabee & it would be interesting to see how slightly more respectful, though not perfect, candidates would campaign against each other.

At this time I have no idea what the leadership in the Democratic Party thinks or who they support. You are correct though Republicans are very nervous. Several of my fRepublican friends are all the sudden piping up nasty comments towards Obama. It's totally out of character for them. I'm sure the Republican email pipelines are lighting the Internet Highway. ;) They are hopping mad at Oprah. lol...........who has donated millions to education in the United States as well as Africa and 3.3 million to coastal Mississippi and 1 million to New Orleans after Katrina. Of course Huckabee has Chuck Norris and I thought they did a clever ad together. How much has Chuck Norris donated to anyone? Well I may have to just sit back and watch them all duke it out. :)

Result number: 19
Searching file 23

Message Number 239024

Re: Update on my doc that canned me! View Thread
Posted by Mary G. on 11/05/07 at 17:54

Katrina,
Sounds like you need to make a phone call to the medical board. Have you tried to contact the office manager or even the doctor in regards to this matter. The people that work up front on the phones will always try to deter you. Tell them this is your last call. At least give you your last shot, and a 30 prescription on the oral meds. It is not like you are asking for narcotics!!

Result number: 20

Message Number 239023

Update on my doc that canned me! View Thread
Posted by katrina on 11/05/07 at 17:06

I have not had my B-12 injections since the beginning of September, due to my primary doc canning me. I ran out of my Synthroid. Both of these meds helped with the pain I experienced from Tarsal Tunnel Syndrome and Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

Today I went to a supposed Walk-In Clinic, due to the fact that I am out of my Synthroid, and also because I have been really sick with an upper respiratory condition. I am laughing my hiney off. The walk-in clinic would not see me and the earliest they would see me was the 13th of this month. Why advertise in the yellow pages and a sign out front that states, 'walk in clinic.' I was so hoping to get something for my respiratory ailment, and to get a refill of my thyroid replacement, and even perhaps a B-12 injection. E-gads I was not asking for narcotics.....

So, I come home and my hubbie is really upset. He calls the doc's office that canned me as his patient. His doc also. They tell him since my medical records have been sent to the new doc, that they will not honor me as their patient. The new doc required even before I seen him to pick up this 'new patient pkt.' I did and filled it out and it requested a release from my other doc. So, now I am caught in limbo. The new doc's office won't see me until the 20th of Novemeber, and the old doc is saying once the new doc has received my pt. record that I am no longer their patient. I am not a patient of the new doc's until I physically see them, even though they have my patient record. Talk about being in limbo!!! So, I have no doc.....

I am just so frustrated by all this....and when a person is in pain, and sick that is difficult enuff, but to add in all this extra BS, it just seems that sometimes it would just be easier to throw in the towel...

Thanks for letting me vent.....

Result number: 21

Message Number 239007

Re: My primary doc canned me as his patient...... View Thread
Posted by katrina on 11/05/07 at 13:10

Thanks for your reply Dr. DSW.

Result number: 22

Message Number 238875

Re: My primary doc canned me as his patient...... View Thread
Posted by katrina on 11/03/07 at 09:05

Louis,

Thank-you so much for the links.

Result number: 23

Message Number 238753

Re: 19 Days TTS Post-OP View Thread
Posted by Helen W on 11/01/07 at 00:34

Katrina: Thanks for your concern. . . I am listening to my body.

The incision has closed back up with the use of the steri strips;I have only been doing what my doctor says is best for my recovery. But I too have felt the need to slow down... especially when 1 day up cost me 2 days down.

Today I called out of work and for the rest of the week. I told them I think I jumped back to work too quickly and I need a few more days to take care of myself. Thankfully, since I have been there 28 years, they are very understanding and there are no problems.

Result number: 24

Message Number 238737

Re: 19 Days TTS Post-OP View Thread
Posted by katrina on 10/31/07 at 17:38

Helen,

Perhaps you are doing too much....Does not sound good that the incision opened up. I believe you are doing too much so soon after surgery! Your body is telling you that with the pain that you describe, and your body has not been given a sufficient amount of time for healing. Everybody heals in a different time frame. You surely do not want to get an infection in your surgical site. You need to take it easy..

And of course this is just my 0.02 cents worth. Good luck to you!!! Take care of yourself!

Katrina

Result number: 25

Message Number 238734

Re: Do you think I have TSS???? View Thread
Posted by katrina on 10/31/07 at 17:29

Rose,

Just a thought here...Have you had a thyroid panel done? What about a vitamin B-12 blood level? Sometimes, the edema from having low thyroid(hypothyroidism) may result in problems with the Tarsal Tunnel area, and Carpal Tunnel area. Just thought I would let you know, as once I was placed on thyroid replacement and received B-12 injections monthly, the symptoms of Tarsal Tunnel and Carpal tunnel greatly. Not 100% but a lot better than prior to receiving thryoid replacement, and B-12 injections. Just a thought. I am no doc...I speak from personal experience.

Katrina

Result number: 26

Message Number 238733

Re: My primary doc canned me as his patient...... View Thread
Posted by katrina on 10/31/07 at 17:19

Greetings Louis,

I live in Michigan. Just curious as to why you want to know..TIA

Kind Regards,

Katrina

Result number: 27

Message Number 238690

Re: My primary doc canned me as his patient...... View Thread
Posted by katrina on 10/30/07 at 18:44

Quilter,

Thank-you for your post. The PA that I was seeing was awesome. Very intelligient, and knows her stuff...and so doesn't her husband..the doc that canned me. I am thinking I have so medical issues that they just didn't want me as their patient. I have skin cancer, hypo-thyroid issues, un-resolved gallbaldder issues, carpal tunnel, tarsal tunnel, and the list of diagnoses's goes on and on. I changed doc's in April of this year of my own choice for many reasons. The doc that I was seeing for over 20+ years just kept blowing off all my health issues, and plus I was tired of having a set appointment, and waitng 3-4 hours in the waiting room before I got to see him. So, I changed doc's in April of this year....and now 6 months later, I have no Doc...

I am happy for you that you found a Doc that is willing to help you. I am so hoping that this new doc will help and not toss me into oblivion.

Good luck with your surgery, and may you be pain free.

Result number: 28

Message Number 238688

Re: My primary doc canned me as his patient...... View Thread
Posted by katrina on 10/30/07 at 18:27

Dr. Ed,

Thank-you for your reply. It is just so frustrating....to gain start over with a new doc!!!! And I am fearful that this doc will can me also. I did try to do a search of the law in my State, but could not definitively come up with anything in regards to your suggestion. All, I know is that I am in severe pain....the pain is not only in my hands and feet, but also in my face, shoulders, hips, elbows. I just don't even know what to do! I barely slept last night due to all the pain! The end of November when I see the new Doc seems so far away!

Result number: 29

Message Number 238633

Re: My primary doc canned me as his patient...... View Thread
Posted by Dr. Ed on 10/29/07 at 22:51

Katrina:

Managed care is a means of reimbursing health care providers, often at larger amounts when less services are provided. It was promoted by government and industry for years as a way to save money. Managed care providers may feel that a patient is too expensive for him and discharge the patient. A doctor may not legally discharge a patient until that patient has secured substitute care (within a reasonable amount of time)
as that is considered abandonment. If you are currently on necessary medication, your physician is obligated to maintain your supply until you have secured a new provider. Certainly, I am not an attorney, but you should be aware of your rights. Additional information may be obtained by contacting your state's medical licensing board.

Dr. Ed

Result number: 30

Message Number 238613

Re: My primary doc canned me as his patient...... View Thread
Posted by katrina on 10/29/07 at 17:02

Dr. Ed,

Thanks for your reply, but I do not even know what a managed care plan is.

I have insurance. I live in a very rural area. The neurologist comes from the big city one day a week. We did have a neurologist here, but he left for the big city. Doc's are hard to come by. The big city is about an hour drive from where I live.

I just don't understand why my doc canned me as his patient. I never missed any appointments, and I did call once to have my appointment rescheduled as I was going on vacation. The appointment had been scheduled several months in advance, and I gave sat least two weeks notice that I was unable to keep it. OH WELL! I am an RN, and I have had to deal with this doc on a professional basis, and let's just say that his bedside manner is not exactly great when I have had to deal with him. But, on the other hand he is a really smart doc, and knows his stuff. His wife also knows her stuff big time...but I am boggled as to why they dropped me as their patient.

But, anyway thank-you for responding to my post. I am hoping that this walk-in clinic will give me a script for my thyroid script, and give me a B-12 injection. I did find a new doc, but I cannot be seen until the end of November. I am miserable about right now!

Result number: 31

Message Number 238570

Re: My primary doc canned me as his patient...... View Thread
Posted by Dr. Ed on 10/28/07 at 19:45

Katrina:

Are you in a managed care plan?

It sounds like you made a good start but need to follow through on some of the issues. One is generally started on a low dose for thyroid replacement but that dose may need to be adjusted upward depending on your response and follow up lab tests.

Dr. Ed

Result number: 32

Message Number 238568

My primary doc canned me as his patient...... View Thread
Posted by katrina on 10/28/07 at 17:59

My primary doc 'crap' canned me as his patient. I had never even seen him, but rather his wife who practices with him as a PA. She had referred me to a hand doc for possible carpal tunnel syndrome. He referred me to a neurologist to determine the extent of the carpal tunnel syndrome. The PA had also just started me on thyroid replacement and B-12 injections. The neurologist determined that I did have a moderate degree of carpal tunnel, and for the heck of it decided to test my tarsal tunnel area, as I complained to the PA that I was having pain, numbness, tingling in my lower extemeties, and he read that in my history that was sent to him from my PA. The neurologist also diagnosed me with tarsal tunnel syndrome. The neurologist also stated that low thyroid(hypothyroid) can cause all of the symptoms of carpal tunnel, and tarsal tunnel. I started to recive some releif from both of these symptoms after I had been on thyroid replacement, and receiving B-12 injections. All of these tests were done in early spring. I was doing pretty good, but then the beginning of this month my doc sent me a certified return receipt requested letter stating I was no longer his patient with no explanation of his decision. So, I have missed my B-12 injection for this month, and I only have a few thyroid tabs left. I can already tell that my problems with my hands and feet have started to escalate. A very long time ago, I was referred to a different neurologist by a different doc for facial pain. That neurologist suggested to me that I am a candidate for MS. This was 20 plus years ago. I saw another neurologist and he diagnosed me with 'atypical facial neuralgia.' He tired numerous upon numerous meds that did not relieve the facial pain, but I was so stoned on all these meds that I could no longer take the feeling of being out of it. I could not function. So, I guess if anybody out there knows what I should do, I would really appreciate it. I am sick of being in pain! So much for the 'oath,' that doc's take.

Result number: 33

Message Number 238565

Re: Frustrated as to Cause View Thread
Posted by katrina on 10/28/07 at 17:30

I also have been diagnosed with tarsal tunnel syndrome and carpal tunnel syndrome. I was referred to a neurologist by a hand doc for my carpal tunnel to diagnose the severity of my carpal tunnel. The neurologist was an excellent doc, and he decided on his own to test my feet ankle area, as I had complained about problems with weakness, pain, numbness in my lower legs and feet to my primary doc who referred me to the hand doc. He discovered that I suffered from tarsal tunnel syndrome. At the same time of this referral to the hand doc, my primary physician also determined that my thyroid was low. Believe it was the the T4, and also I was deficient in B-12. Started on thyroid replacement and B-12 injections monthly and low and behold my carpal tunnel and tarsal tunnel symptoms have diminished somewhat. I no longer awake at night with pain and numbness and tingling in my hands. The pain in both my hands was so severe prior to thyroid replacement and B-12 injections that I started wearing hand and writst braces at night. My feet and lower legs were considerably better. I just wanted to tell you my story.


But, to my dismay my primary doc and his wife who is a physcian's assistant sent me me a certified return receipt requested letter, telling me that I am now no longer a patient of their practice, with no explanation of why they decided they no longer wanted me as a patient. So, therefore I missed my B-12 injection at the beginning of this month, and I only have approximately 6 thyroid pills left. I already have started to suffer again with pain in my ankles, and with pain in my hands that prevent me from having a restful sleep at night. I do have a new doc but I cannot get in until the end of Novemeber. ARGH!!!! How can doc's who take the oath do this to a patient????

Result number: 34

Message Number 238337

Re: CA Fires View Thread
Posted by john h on 10/23/07 at 18:24

I think the major difference is the people in N.O. were actually trapped and had no way of escape. Were lacking in the basic essentials of life such as water, food, law and order. The people at Qualcom could pickup and go if they wanted to. I will grant that N.O. was one of the most lawless cities in the U.S. even prior to katrina.

What will be interesting to see is if the Government sends in thousands of trailers and other supplies. Will they pay rent for over a year for people who lost their homes? Many people in N.O. had no insurance but I bet most of the homes in California were insured which usually includes living expenses. California is somewhat like N.O. in that it suffers a lot more catastrophes than most areas with fires,mud slides, earthquakes,lack of sufficient water, droughts, etc. However N.O. is a disaster waiting to happen again. I would think that insurance rates in CA must be sky high and I do not see how an insurance company can furnish insurance at all in N.O. and those barrier islands. If my home were flooded or burned down I feel confident there would be no help for me from the government. I would make it on my own or drown. We still have thousands of trailers stored in Arkansas from Katrina which were never used. We also have thousands still receiving free rent from the government. I think we should treat all people the same in disasters. Do not be selective in that if you happen to be in a major disaster you are much more likely to be helped by the government than if you as an individual home owner lose your home then it is tough luck.

Result number: 35

Message Number 238334

Re: CA Fires View Thread
Posted by havepfpain on 10/23/07 at 18:11

What a difference between conditions and the behavior of those at Qualcom stadium vs. a very similar situation at the stadium in New Orleans after Katrina. I wonder why? Could it be that the people in San Diego are predominatly ***** and those in NO were predominatly *****? Makes one wonder doesn't it? O'my I can hear the 'R' word being spewed by the Hillary crowd.

Result number: 36

Message Number 235198

Uninsured View Thread
Posted by john h on 8/30/07 at 11:15

Was reading yesterday that approximately 40% of the uninsured in American make over $50,000 per year and a significant number make over $75,000 per year. 35% percent are Hispanic. Whether they are legal or illegal I do not know. Many who work for companies who offer health insurance choose not to enroll in the company insurance program as they do not want to pay premiums. We have 16% of the population uninsured. Some of these people can clearly afford insurance but choose not to. There should be a way to bring this 16% under coverage without totally overhauling the entire system and putting it under government control.

We have approximately 35,000 people in Arkansas who were Katrina victims. Most are still being subsidized in various ways by the government. Free rent or very low rent such as $35 a month. Some have trailers. What is the governments long term responsibility for people in disasters? If I get run over by a truck or killed in a tornado my family is entitled to nothing and I do not expect anything, We have had a number of towns destroyed by tornadoes in Arkansas. They can and usually are declared disaster areas and receive government subsidized 'Loans' but nothing like Katrina victims. Does a disaster have to be high profile and very big to entitle those injured to be subsidized by the government. The 9/11 victims families received millions of dollars from the government and others. If your house or my house buns down no one is going to help us unless we have insurance. There seems to be no equity in the way government decides who they will help. Is it the governments responsibility to help in ever disaster? Should a Kansas farmer subsidize a Florida rich guy living on a barrier Island living in a million dollar house by having his taxes go to the Federal Flood Insurance Program which keeps the insurance rates down on the guy living in Florida? Actually the flood insurance program allows the Florida guy to buy insurance otherwise insurance companies would not offer insurance. A lot if not most of our wasted money in Washington exist for political reasons and not for practical or sensible reasons.

Result number: 37

Message Number 233998

Re: Our aging infrastructure........... View Thread
Posted by marie on 8/06/07 at 10:33

Although I agrre with you on Byrd, you only attacked a Democrat in your post...........nothing unexpected., I will add that you neglected to post about the worst of all. Senator Stevens and his 'bridge to nowhere'. This includes placing a secret hold on a bill that would allow easier accountability and research of all federal funding measures, describing the Internet as a 'series of tubes' when taking a strong alliance with the telecommunications industry against network neutrality, and supporting perceived pork barrel projects such as the Gravina Island Bridge (known as the 'Bridge to Nowhere' by its opponents) and the Knik Arm Bridge. He threatened to resign from the Senate if the federal earmark for the Alaskan bridges was sent to help repair Louisiana in the wake of Hurricane Katrina damage. Citizens Against Government Waste is a frequent critic of Stevens' affinity for pork and keeps a list of his projects. Enough of finger pointing..........

You can check the facts on pork barrel votes at this site both Dems and Reps. can share in the blame game although they should have known better after Cunningham, Ney and all those connected to Abramoff.........so if you want specifics on either party or it's members check it out.
http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pagename=FAQ

I think we can spend our time criticizing and attacking individuals in both parties or we can roll up our sleeves and get to work on the problem. I prefer the latter. Repairing a bridge, levee, dam, electrical grids etc isn't very sexy so often times politicians in either party get swayed into building a new ball park, zoo etc........
It's up to we the people to demand that repairs be made and safety put before other projects on the list.

Result number: 38

Message Number 233985

Re: Our aging infrastructure........... View Thread
Posted by john h on 8/05/07 at 19:15

My thoughts on our aging infrastructure is that we the people are the problem. The Federal governments sends money to the states and the states often puts the money into high profile things where the politician can be seen cutting a ribbon. Not much publicity in repairing a bridge. Much of the money sent to the states is not earmarked for repairs to anything special so the state politicians do what they want. We continue to see people like Senator Byrd capture enormous amounts of money for his state for crazy things. He leads the pack but is by no means alone. Democrats and Republicans alike attach to bills their pork projects for such things as roads that go nowhere. We the voters continue elect these bunch of fools so we share in the responsibility. Now all the politicians want to call for investigative committees to place blame on some engineering company or anyone but themselves. Of course everyone in anyway associated with that bridge will be sued and the Federal Government will come up with some special fund as with 9/11 to give to the survivors families. Do you ever wonder why only people in tragedies such as this get money and when someone in some lesser known tragedy gets nothing from the government? I do.
In the end the people will pay the victims law suits through higher taxes, etc. In a nation this size there will be failures of bridges, buildings and just about anything built by man. If it is not a mistake then it is an earthquake, fires, tornados, or anything else mother nature cares to send our way. How many people have we blamed the results of Katrina on? What on earth do we expect when we locate a city below sea level in one of the most hurricane prone places on earth? Yet here we are building it back up again for the next Katrina which will come and there is nothing we can build that will protect that city from a direct hit of a Cat V hurricane. We continue to rebuild grand homes on barrier islands over and over because insurance will cover the loss and the increased insurance cost to us all will cover the insurance company. We can always blame FEMA or state government or the Governor or the President. Of course Congress can gather all their fact finding committees and we can all rest easy again. Nothing on this earth is ever 100% safe and never will be. The minute you open your door and walk outside you face danger all around you.

Result number: 39

Message Number 231159

I thought Republican candidates were suppose to debate???? View Thread
Posted by marie on 6/05/07 at 21:26

Sounds like Democrats took over their bodies. Could be a new invasion of the conservative mind???? They don't like Bush. What gives?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070606/ap_on_el_pr/republicans_debate
'I would certainly not send him to the United Nations' to represent the United States, said Tommy Thompson, the former Wisconsin governor and one-time member of Bush's Cabinet, midway through a spirited campaign debate.

Rep. Tom Tancredo of Colorado recalled that White House aide Karl Rove had once told him 'never darken the door of the White House.' The congressman said he'd tell George W. Bush the same thing.

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee added his voice to those criticizing the war effort and added that the Bush administration 'lost credibility' with its response to Hurricane Katrina in 2005.

McCain and Brownback both admitted they voted to authorize the U.S. military invasion of Iraq without reading the formal, nearly 90-page National Intelligence Estimate in advance.

Result number: 40

Message Number 230165

Re: Tarsal Tunnel syndrome and Hypothyroidism View Thread
Posted by Dr. Ed on 5/18/07 at 19:06

katrina:
Symptoms of TTS and hypothryroidism may overlap. Additionally, if hypothryroidism leads to the presence of edema, TTS can be exaccerbated.
I do not think that it is possible to answer your question with any certainty -- time will tell.
Dr. Ed

Result number: 41

Message Number 230158

Tarsal Tunnel syndrome and Hypothyroidism View Thread
Posted by katrina on 5/18/07 at 18:23

Greetings,

I was diagnosed with carpal tunnel syndrome....My throid T3 or T4 is low. I mentioned to the Doc that I was also having weird pain in my legs and feet. I have been on a very low amount of thyroid replacement for a little over a month. I was referred to a neurologist. I went to see him the other day. He confirmed the Carpal Tunnel, but decided to test my feet, and diagnosed me with Tarsal tunnel syndrome.

My question is if I get my thryoid under control, will the carpal tunnel and tarsal tunnel disappear?

This doc was so awesome. He even determined without me telling him how long I have been experiencing my symptoms, by and EMG! I am totally impressed with him.

So, again will my symptoms go away when my thyroid gets back into the normal range.

I had never heard of Tarsal Tunnel Syndrome until I visited the neurologist the other day!

Result number: 42
Searching file 22

Message Number 225815

Re: Your turn John! View Thread
Posted by Susan on 3/23/07 at 13:33

I was asking because you said pulling out troops was no solution for victory and I was wondering if you saw an alternative. I really don't know much, but my mother was just saying yesterday that she thought that *whenever* we pull out our troops a bloodbath will follow, regardless of whether we pull out now or 5 years from now. And if we pull out sooner rather than later we will just save more of our soldiers' lives, rather than just putting off the inevitable. What is your opinion on that?

Again I don't know much but I think we could have used a lot of our troops that were in Iraq to help after Katrina, but they were not here. It seems to me we are getting spread thin.

I think your points on this are insightful.

Result number: 43

Message Number 221145

Re: To Hope View Thread
Posted by Ralph on 1/30/07 at 15:20

Hi Hope,
I found this. I wonder if you have any recourse with WC because they seem to be holding up proper care for you. Just a thought to check with your attorney.

http://www.footlaw.com/news/rsds.html

They seem to tie up doctors with lots of paper work and restrictions and patients the same way. It seems like a lose lose situation but isn't that typical of most government projects. They'd rather lose money and not account for it then help people. Look at Katrina folks
and how much money was wasted yet people are still seeking help. No accounting for spending is their M.O. and no one seems to care.

I just wish you could get some sleep. Early on I had some very sensitive skin and experienced burning and I know how difficult it is to sleep. Like you I couldn't let anything touch my skin. I though I might have RSD and I didn't want it to go undiagnosed.

On the advice of my P.T. my wife ordered me undershirts make of 100%
silk. They were oversized and seemed to float over my sensitive skin unlike the cotton I was wearing. Between them and the Lidoderm
patches it worked pretty well at night.

I still use those patches. Go thru them like water at times. I sometimes try to get two days wear out of them but they don't stick as well the second day.

Do you finally have a date to see the new doctor???

It can't come anytime tooo soon. I wish you had unlimited resources and could go anywhere for treatment. Just pick up and go.

Keep the faith and let make a pack to keep plugging along. I'll keep talking to folks about you and hopefully we'll get some kind of break. That's my prayer.
Ralph

Result number: 44

Message Number 220004

Re: Posterior Tibialis Tendonitis View Thread
Posted by JuLeen on 1/17/07 at 16:17

The MRI was completed aprox 30 days ago. The AFO was adjusted today and is wearing better. My PT yesterday was wondering about TTS or nerve entrapment. Over the weekend I was having pain in the Posterior Tib Tendon area (from the arch up the back of the ankle) with little to no activity on it and even sitting. Could that go along with some of the symptoms that I've been having?

For Larry, no I'm not a "large" person, no offense taken. Up until last year I was extremely active - biking, softball, hiking, leading youth ministries, assisting with rebuilding in New Orleans after Katrina, etc...

The gentleman who make my inserts and AFO thought the AFO was too much based upon the current condition of my foot/ankle, but the shoe orthotics were not alleviating the pain that starts at the navicular and radiates up the side and back of the ankle. So that was the next step.

How much can the accessory navicular play in this?

Result number: 45
Searching file 21

Message Number 219719

Let Them Eat Cake in 2008 View Thread
Posted by marie on 1/14/07 at 11:03

Hmmmm lets see......President Bush goes to a birthday party with Senator John McCain. We call Bush president because he won the vote.......hmm I sort of expect for the president of the free world to go into action not to a party. What did Bush adress faster Kerry's botched joke or Hurricane Katrina?



Let them eat cake in 2008!


Result number: 46

Message Number 219658

Re: Rumors vs. Fact View Thread
Posted by marie on 1/13/07 at 17:59

Tell that to her.......
http://www.takebackamerica.us/1/ogrish-dot-com-hurricane_katrina_victim3.jpg
and them....
http://static.flickr.com/30/39097648_47447d4a7a.jpg
http://www.katrinahelp.com/hurricane-katrina-44.jpg
http://www.katrinahelp.com/hurricane-katrina-41.jpg
http://www.katrinahelp.com/hurricane-katrina-83.jpg
http://www.boreme.com/oboreme/media-pictures/hurricane-katrina-6.jpg

Thank God for true patriots like Vice President Al Gore....


This is the only pic of him as he helped rescue the sick, the elderly and those who needed a hand. He saw a need and did what had to be done. No one caught him shopping for new shoes or playing guitar at John MCain's birthday party. He went because he loves the American people and as an American he rose to the call.

Result number: 47

Message Number 219613

Re: Rumors vs. Fact View Thread
Posted by Dr. Ed on 1/13/07 at 12:07

Do you have any idea what Democrat politicians, specifically those who held the Office of the Presidency were doing at all times during various crises? I doubt it.

Again, I realize that many liberals are unaware of the subject of civics but the Secretary of State is involved in foreign affairs. What shame did Rice have in not cancelling a trip to New York when there was no obligation nor urgency to be involved in the Katrina crisis. The Senate minority leader, a Democrat, had msch more obligation during the crisis. Do you know exactly what the Senate minority leader was doing during the Katrina crisis? I doubt it and I doubt you will ever find out. Irrespective of this, our leaders are professionals in their jobs. Oncologists are dealing with dying patients all the time. Do you think that they are in shame if they go to a party or take their family to the theater while one of thier patients lies dying in the hospital?

Result number: 48

Message Number 219602

Re: Rumors vs. Fact View Thread
Posted by Dr. Ed on 1/13/07 at 11:21

Rice does not have anything to do with domestic policy so what if she was in NY during the Katrina crisis. Do you know what each politician is doing with their personal lives during national events? I doubt it.

Result number: 49

Message Number 219588

Rumors vs. Fact View Thread
Posted by marie on 1/13/07 at 08:42

"that Rice may be a lesbian"

This is news to me. Must be a Republican rumor.

My family is in Iraq. This war affects me and my family personally. Who in Rice's family is in Iraq? Or is she to busy buying shoes to notice? Pumps or Flats? Which do you think the Secretary wears? Birkenstocks? And of course we wouldn't expect her to miss a broadway show while in the midst of the biggest national emergency in the history of the United States of America now would we?

Is this a rumor?.....nope it's all on record. The historic legacy of Condi Rice and George W. Bush. US Citizens die while Bush plays guitar and Condi does Broadway. This was the moment that changed what Americans thought about Bush and his administration.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/342712p-292600c.html
"Like President Bush, the Secretary of State has been on vacation during the Hurricane Katrina crisis, with Rice enjoying her downtime in New York Wednesday and yesterday."

Result number: 50

Message Number 219269

Re: House Passes Anti-Terror Bill View Thread
Posted by larrym on 1/10/07 at 08:50

Indeed and the standing ovation Jefferson got from the gongressional black caucus was a democrat highlight. I mean, during Katrina the guy tied up two humvees and a chopper so they could help him extricate a box full of bribe money. Then he gets caught with 90k in tupperware in his freezer AND gets re-elected !!!!!!!!!!!!


Go Marian Barry syndrome

Result number: 51

Message Number 219248

Re: Anne Wright & The Man In The Truck View Thread
Posted by marie on 1/09/07 at 22:22

"I spoke to/interviewed a lot of folks in the ditch personally."

Have you heard of a cell phone? We took turns making calls to folks in the ditch. They did not have computers in a ditch. Several of us documented the ditch via cell phone. Like I said my fav was Saphie's piece and that is what I posted. I stated pretty clearly that was Saphie's post. Do you need for me to slow down? Am I using big college words again?

I'll never forget when some jerk knocked down the crosses. Got a late night call to the ditch brought some bad news. Who knew this guy was reading what was posted......but it got picked up quickly.
http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2005/08/16/camp-casey-attacked/

Some pics for you.
http://ellagoes.typepad.com/photos/crawford_august_2005/index.html

Lt. Sid and the rest of the sheriff's became very close with many of the members at Camp Casey. I love this pic of Ella with Sid. I didn't know these people but I did talk to Ella's mom on the phone while I was waiting to talk to someone else. Her father was retired Navy. She took his hat with her as a security blanket. Hey were Ella goes momma goes.

http://ellagoes.typepad.com/photos/crawford_august_2005/ellasid.html

Annie and Buddy (the protesters legal advisers), their pics are in there but I won't share which ones, where finishing up at the camp a hurricane hit Louisiana....it was Katrina. They had returned there at the request of Sid who was concerned some anti anti-war protesters would cause problems during the last few days. They are lawyers in LA. Annie is also the president of the NAACP in Covington. Good dear friends. During this time they represented Cindy. They left their daughter with their secretary for a couple of days and headed back to the ditch in Crawford. The secretary lives near the grandparents in Bogaloosa and they thought it was all under control... anyhoo while Bush was at a birthday party for McCain we were frantically trying to locate the whereabouts of their daughter and family. Not ez when there are NO phones or electricty. Buddy and Annie's cell went dead....all LA cell phone service was dead. They had no idea how bad it was because they had little availability to a tv in a ditch. They couldn't fly out because they airport was shut down. I believe they caught a ride with the VFP and drove back to a mess. The eye of the storm went right over Bogaloosa. It all turned out fine as they had evacuated and the kid was ok. Sid and several other members of the sheriff's department in Crawford went to NOLA to help out and stayed with Annie and Buddy. Cindy stayed there too as I recall. It's not always what it seems Larry......

Good luck to you larry ;)! You can research the rest. I am going to be purposefully vague on the rest of this.

Result number: 52

Message Number 218948

Re: Time to bring the National Guard home to guard our nation View Thread
Posted by marie on 1/05/07 at 17:46

The National Guard does not have bullets in their guns. Unfortunately that got out when they were sent to the border.

My sister worked in a shelter after Hurricane Katrina in Louisiana. The National Guardsman who were in the superdome where also stationed at the shelter. The medical staff and the guardsman ate their meals together. They told her what happened during the storm in the superdome. For one thing they did not have bullets in their guns and were under strict orders not to shoot anyone for any reason. (Their guns were unloaded at the shelter too).At some point some of the thugs who slipped weapons into the dome after they quit doing searches figured out the guardsman did not have bullets and they overpowered the guardsman and took their weapons. One of the National Guardswomen was raped. They were completely unarmed in the midst of chaos. They did their best to gather frightened people together for safety but it was a mess. She got an earful from them and some.

Result number: 53

Message Number 212756

Re: I think possibly that Scott....sm View Thread
Posted by marie on 10/09/06 at 15:57

Dang- I have an SUV, have owned a corporation, own a business, work full time, I am a Christian, pray daily for others, respect other's rights to their religous beliefs or not, advocate for peace beginning with taching my own children to value others, on Bush's list of ok'd people for receptions and dinners (still not sure why???), vote independently in local elections, fiscal conservative, pro welfare reform, for making China follow the laws of our trade agreements, have no problem with the second amendment but disagree with having assault types of weapons available for sale, support tough border & port security, support the war in Afghanestan, am all for an immigration overhaul......starting with arresting employers who hire illegals, for an overhaul of our healthcare system, pro Social Security....it's my money and I want it, was once a Republican (didn't agree with their lack of morals), now a Democrat......lean liberal on a few issues such as personal freedoms, strongly believe in abiding by the constitution, pro military funding, buy mostly American products, pro civil rights, feel government should be there to assist people in the worst case scenario.....ala Katrina, agree with an affirmative action overhaul but not eliminating, think Rumsfeld should resign, wish all neocons would find an island of their own.........oh my gosh I think I'm a Republican!!!! LOL.

Result number: 54

Message Number 212601

Re: Fox news Reports Dems may pick up 20=50 seats in last poll View Thread
Posted by Tim M. on 10/07/06 at 19:50

marie,

Moreover, will independent or uncommitted voters recognize those people? How can we recognize them? How can we help others to recognize them?

To me, the reason why a party who has owned all three branches of government the past six years has not been able to deliver is painfully obvious. They cannot agree, even among themselves, what the right course is to take! Look at what happened with Hurricane Katrina. The Republicans in power were so busy trying to find a way to blame the Democrats for something, they did not even sit down and agree upon what should be sent where and when.

Would the Democrats do any better? Probably not, since if the situation presented itself to them, and they were in power, they would probably be so busy trying to solidify their power, they probably would not agree on anything either!

Result number: 55

Message Number 210897

Re: Doctors Without Borders View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/21/06 at 19:31

Kuodos to you! I know it's a tough committment and it would be nice to limit to a shorter time. They may actually do that for nurses. Doctors may need to do that for a longer time because of follow up etc....

My sis went for a few weeks to LA after Katrina to help. She was glad to get home and recieved not one penny for her effort but she felt it her duty as an American. Yeah some of her bills got behind and she spent money she didn't have but she saids she'd do it again in a minute.

BTW her son will be in Iraq in a couple of months.

Result number: 56
Searching file 20

Message Number 208829

Re: Compensation View Thread
Posted by april on 8/30/06 at 16:26

I don't think the families of the victims of 911 should receive any compensation. I don't understand why they are. It's pretty outrageous! Why should the government pay for something done by terrorists, as if the US is to blame? And now people want to blame the govt. for Katrina?

Result number: 57

Message Number 208668

Re: Compensation View Thread
Posted by john h on 8/28/06 at 12:08

When I joined the military and I think up until I retired my death compensation was $10,000. I knew the deal as we all did. As a pilot I could not buy private insurance that would pay out if I were killed in combat so my family and many others were at a big risk as you cannot build a lot of equity in the military. When you are young you think you will never die. We took the risk. We knew it. I would do it again as I liked my job.

By comparison the families of people in the WTC seemed to have got millions of dollars from various places and even the government. Many people in N.O. have received some major benefits. Good for all these people but for those of us who watched our buddies die and their families get $10,000 it did sort of stick in our throat.

Personally, I think to many people in our country depend upon the government to bail them out of every catastrophe such as earthquake, floods, hurricanes, war, etc. It is up to us for the most part to have insurance on our lives, our homes, etc. I am amazed that very wealthy people continue to build expensive homes on these outer-bank islands only to have them blown away again and again and then have an insurance company rebuild them. Those insurance rates are subsidized by all of us. N.O can never be made 100% safe from another catastrophe such as Katrina. There is no levee built that can withstand a CAT V hurricane in that area and you know it is only a matter of time until one arrives again. This is not a government problem it is a people problem. N.O. will never be the same regardless of what people say. We are a year out and many areas are still under water or to dangerous to even walk in. Every day houses burn down in this country and the owners get only what insurance they have on their home and possessions. We do not hear about them. They do not make the news. For these people there loss is as big as the individuals in N.O. What is the difference between them and any other area devastated by a storm or mudslide. FEMA sure does not help them. Only their neighbors and local charities are there. The government is not a money machine and can only get money from the tax payers. The government can not be all things to every person. Growing up my family did not have health insurance. I am not sure it even existed for anyone. Glad to have it now but we did manage to get by without it and I am not so sure the logevity rate has increased all that much.

Result number: 58

Message Number 208238

Katrina timeline View Thread
Posted by marie on 8/23/06 at 20:50

Made this timeline last November some time. Anyhoooooo it's serves as a reminder of August 29th and the days that followed.........who was there and who was not.

They cried for help but no one came.

Friday, August 26

GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: [Office of the Governor]

GULF COAST STATES REQUEST TROOP ASSISTANCE FROM PENTAGON: At a 9/1 press conference, Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, commander, Joint Task Force Katrina, said that the Gulf States began the process of requesting additional forces on Friday, 8/26. [DOD]

Saturday, August 27

5AM KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 3 HURRICANE [CNN]

GOV. BLANCO ASKS BUSH TO DECLARE FEDERAL STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. [Office of the Governor]

FEDERAL EMERGENCY DECLARED, DHS AND FEMA GIVEN FULL AUTHORITY TO RESPOND TO KATRINA: Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. [White House]

Sunday, August 28

2AM KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN]

7AM KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 5 HURRICANE [CNN]

MORNING LOUISIANA NEWSPAPER SIGNALS LEVEES MAY GIVE: Forecasters Fear Levees Will Not Hold Katrina: Forecasters feared Sunday afternoon that storm driven waters will lap over the New Orleans levees when monster Hurricane Katrina pushes past the Crescent City tomorrow. [Lafayette Daily Advertiser]

9:30 AM MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES FIRST EVER MANDATORY EVACUATION OF NEW ORLEANS: We are facing the storm most of us have feared, said Nagin. This is going to be an unprecedented event. [Times-Picayune]

4PM NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ISSUES SPECIAL HURRICANE WARNING: In the event of a category 4 or 5 hit, Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps longer. At least one-half of well-constructed homes will have roof and wall failure. All gabled roofs will fail, leaving those homes severely damaged or destroyed. Power outages will last for weeks. Water shortages will make human suffering incredible by modern standards. [National Weather Service]

AFTERNOON BUSH, BROWN, CHERTOFF WARNED OF LEVEE FAILURE BY NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER DIRECTOR: Dr. Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center: We were briefing them way before landfall. It is not like this was a surprise. We had in the advisories that the levee could be topped. [Times-Picayune; St. Petersburg Times]

LATE PM REPORTS OF WATER TOPPLING OVER LEVEE: Waves crashed atop the exercise path on the Lake Pontchartrain levee in Kenner early Monday as Katrina churned closer. [Times-Picayune]

APPROXIMATELY 30,000 EVACUEES GATHER AT SUPERDOME WITH ROUGHLY 36 HOURS WORTH OF FOOD [Times-Picayune]

Monday, August 29

7AM KATRINA MAKES LANDFALL AS A CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN]

8AM MAYOR NAGIN REPORTS THAT WATER IS FLOWING OVER LEVEE: I have gotten reports this morning that there is already water coming over some of the levee systems. In the lower ninth ward, we have had one of our pumping stations to stop operating, so we will have significant flooding, it is just a matter of how much. [NBC’s Today Show]

MORNING BUSH CALLS SECRETARY CHERTOFF TO DISCUSS IMMIGRATION: I spoke to Mike Chertoff today he is the head of the Department of Homeland Security. I knew people would want me to discuss this issue [immigration], so we got us an airplane on a telephone on Air Force One, so I called him. I said, are you working with the governor? He said, you bet we are. [White House]

MORNING BUSH SHARES BIRTHDAY CAKE PHOTO OP WITH SEN. JOHN MCCAIN [White House]

11AM BUSH VISITS ARIZONA RESORT TO PROMOTE MEDICARE DRUG BENEFIT: This new bill I signed says, if you are a senior and you like the way things are today, you are in good shape, do not change. But, by the way, there is a lot of different options for you. And we are here to talk about what that means to our seniors. [White House]

LATE MORNING LEVEE BREACHED: A large section of the vital 17th Street Canal levee, where it connects to the brand new hurricane proof Old Hammond Highway bridge, gave way late Monday morning in Bucktown after Katrina s fiercest winds were well north. [Times-Picayune]

11:30AM MICHAEL BROWN FINALLY REQUESTS THAT DHS DISPATCH 1,000 EMPLOYEES TO REGION, GIVES THEM TWO DAYS TO ARRIVE: Brown s memo to Chertoff described Katrina as this near catastrophic event but otherwise lacked any urgent language. The memo politely ended, Thank you for your consideration in helping us to meet our responsibilities. [AP]

2PM BUSH TRAVELS TO CALIFORNIA SENIOR CENTER TO DISCUSS MEDICARE DRUG BENEFIT: We have got some folks up here who are concerned about their Social Security or Medicare. Joan Geist is with us. I could tell she was looking at me when I first walked in the room to meet her, she was wondering whether or not old George W. is going to take away her Social Security check. [White House]

9PM RUMSFELD ATTENDS SAN DIEGO PADRES BASEBALL GAME: Rumsfeld joined Padres President John Moores in the owner s box at Petco Park. [Editor & Publisher]

Tuesday, August 30

9AM BUSH SPEAKS ON IRAQ AT NAVAL BASE CORONADO [White House]

MIDDAY CHERTOFF FINALLY BECOMES AWARE THAT LEVEE HAS FAILED: It was on Tuesday that the levee may have been overnight Monday to Tuesday that the levee started to break. And it was midday Tuesday that I became aware of the fact that there was no possibility of plugging the gap and that essentially the lake was going to start to drain into the city. [Meet the Press, 9/4/05]

PENTAGON CLAIMS THERE ARE ENOUGH NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS IN REGION: Pentagon spokesman Lawrence Di Rita said the states have adequate National Guard units to handle the hurricane needs. [WWL-TV]

MASS LOOTING REPORTED, SECURITY SHORTAGE CITED: The looting is out of control. The French Quarter has been attacked, Councilwoman Jackie Clarkson said. We are using exhausted, scarce police to control looting when they should be used for search and rescue while we still have people on rooftops. [AP]

U.S.S. BATAAN SITS OFF SHORE, VIRTUALLY UNUSED: The USS Bataan, a 844-foot ship designed to dispatch Marines in amphibious assaults, has helicopters, doctors, hospital beds, food and water. It also can make its own water, up to 100,000 gallons a day. And it just happened to be in the Gulf of Mexico when Katrina came roaring ashore. The Bataan rode out the storm and then followed it toward shore, awaiting relief orders. Helicopter pilots flying from its deck were some of the first to begin plucking stranded New Orleans residents. But now the Bataan s hospital facilities, including six operating rooms and beds for 600 patients, are empty. [Chicago Tribune]

3PM PRESIDENT BUSH PLAYS GUITAR WITH COUNTRY SINGER MARK WILLIS [AP]

BUSH RETURNS TO CRAWFORD FOR FINAL NIGHT OF VACATION [AP]

Wednesday, August 31

TENS OF THOUSANDS TRAPPED IN SUPERDOME; CONDITIONS DETERIORATE: A 2 year old girl slept in a pool of urine. Crack vials littered a restroom. Blood stained the walls next to vending machines smashed by teenagers. We pee on the floor. We are like animals, said Taffany Smith, 25, as she cradled her 3 week-old son, Terry. By Wednesday, it had degenerated into horror. At least two people, including a child, have been raped. At least three people have died, including one man who jumped 50 feet to his death, saying he had nothing left to live for. There is no sanitation. The stench is overwhelming. [Los Angeles Times, 9/1/05]

PRESIDENT BUSH FINALLY ORGANIZES TASK FORCE TO COORDINATE FEDERAL RESPONSE: Bush says on Tuesday he will fly to Washington to begin work with a task force that will coordinate the work of 14 federal agencies involved in the relief effort. [New York Times, 8/31/05]

JEFFERSON PARISH EMERGENCY DIRECTOR SAYS FOOD AND WATER SUPPLY GONE: Director Walter Maestri: FEMA and national agencies not delivering the help nearly as fast as it is needed. [WWL-TV]

80,000 BELIEVED STRANDED IN NEW ORLEANS: Former Mayor Sidney Barthelemy estimated 80,000 were trapped in the flooded city and urged President Bush to send more troops. [Reuters]

3,000 STRANDED AT CONVENTION CENTER WITHOUT FOOD OR WATER: With 3,000 or more evacuees stranded at the convention center and with no apparent contingency plan or authority to deal with them collecting a body was no one s priority. Some had been at the convention center since Tuesday morning but had received no food, water or instructions. [Times-Picayune]

5PM BUSH GIVES FIRST MAJOR ADDRESS ON KATRINA: Nothing about the president s demeanor which seemed casual to the point of carelessness suggested that he understood the depth of the current crisis. [New York Times]

8:00PM CONDOLEEZZA RICE TAKES IN A BROADWAY SHOW: On Wednesday night, Secretary Rice was booed by some audience members at Spamalot!, the Monty Python musical at the Shubert, when the lights went up after the performance.[New York Post, 9/2/05]

9PM FEMA DIRECTOR BROWN CLAIMS SURPRISE OVER SIZE OF STORM: I must say, this storm is much much bigger than anyone expected. [CNN]

Thursday, September 1

8AM BUSH CLAIMS NO ONE EXPECTED LEVEES TO BREAK: I do not think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees. [Washington Post]

CONDOLEEZZA RICE VISITS U.S. OPEN: Rice, [in New York] on three days vacation to shop and see the U.S. Open, hitting some balls with retired champ Monica Seles at the Indoor Tennis Club at Grand Central. [New York Post]

STILL NO COMMAND AND CONTROL ESTABLISHED: Terry Ebbert, New Orleans Homeland Security Director: This is a national emergency. This is a national disgrace. FEMA has been here three days, yet there is no command and control. We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims, but we can’t bail out the city of New Orleans. [Fox News]

2PM MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES DESPERATE SOS TO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT: This is a desperate SOS. Right now we are out of resources at the convention centre and do not anticipate enough buses. We need buses. Currently the convention centre is unsanitary and unsafe and we are running out of supplies. [Guardian, 9/2/05]

2PM MICHAEL BROWN CLAIMS NOT TO HAVE HEARD OF REPORTS OF VIOLENCE: I have had no reports of unrest, if the connotation of the word unrest means that people are beginning to riot, or you know, they are banging on walls and screaming and hollering or burning tires or whatever. I have had no reports of that. [CNN]

NEW ORLEANS DESCEND[S] INTO ANARCHY: Storm victims were raped and beaten, fights and fires broke out, corpses lay out in the open, and rescue helicopters and law enforcement officers were shot at as flooded-out New Orleans descended into anarchy Thursday. This is a desperate SOS, the mayor said. [AP]

CONDOLEEZZA RICE GOES SHOE SHOPPING: Just moments ago at the Ferragamo on 5th Avenue, Condoleeza Rice was seen spending several thousands of dollars on some nice, new shoes (we have confirmed this, so her new heels will surely get coverage from the WaPos Robin Givhan A fellow shopper), unable to fathom the absurdity of Rice s timing, went up to the Secretary and reportedly shouted, How dare you shop for shoes while thousands are dying and homeless! [Gawker]

MICHAEL BROWN FINALLY LEARNS OF EVACUEES IN CONVENTION CENTER: We learned about that (Thursday), so I have directed that we have all available resources to get that convention center to make sure that they have the food and water and medical care that they need. [CNN]

Friday, September 2

ROVE-LED CAMPAIGN TO BLAME LOCAL OFFICIALS BEGINS: Under the command of President Bush s two senior political advisers, the White House rolled out a plan to contain the political damage from the administration s response to Hurricane Katrina. President Bush s comments from the Rose Garden Friday morning formed the start of this campaign. [New York Times, 9/5/05]

9:35AM BUSH PRAISES MICHAEL BROWN: Brownie, you are doing a heck of a job. [White House, 9/2/05]

10 AM PRESIDENT BUSH STAGES PHOTO-OP BRIEFING: Coast Guard helicopters and crew diverted to act as backdrop for President Bush s photo-op.

BUSH VISIT GROUNDS FOOD AID: Three tons of food ready for delivery by air to refugees in St. Bernard Parish and on Algiers Point sat on the Crescent City Connection bridge Friday afternoon as air traffic was halted because of President Bush s visit to New Orleans, officials said. [Times-Picayune]

LEVEE REPAIR WORK ORCHESTRATED FOR PRESIDENT S VISIT: Sen. Mary Landrieu, 9/3: Touring this critical site yesterday with the President, I saw what I believed to be a real and significant effort to get a handle on a major cause of this catastrophe. Flying over this critical spot again this morning, less than 24 hours later, it became apparent that yesterday we witnessed a hastily prepared stage set for a Presidential photo opportunity; and the desperately needed resources we saw were this morning reduced to a single, lonely piece of equipment. [Sen. Mary Landrieu]

BUSH USES 50 FIREFIGHTERS AS PROPS IN DISASTER AREA PHOTO-OP: A group of 1,000 firefighters convened in Atlanta to volunteer with the Katrina relief efforts. Of those, a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew s first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.[Salt Lake Tribune; Reuters]

3PM BUSH SATISFIED WITH THE RESPONSE: I am satisfied with the response. I am not satisfied with all the results. [AP]

Saturday, September 3

SENIOR BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL LIES TO WASHINGTON POST, CLAIMS GOV. BLANCO NEVER DECLARED STATE OF EMERGENCY: The Post reported in their Sunday edition As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said. They were forced to issue a correction hours later. [Washington Post, 9/4/05]

9AM BUSH BLAMES STATE AND LOCAL OFFICIALS: [T]he magnitude of responding to a crisis over a disaster area that is larger than the size of Great Britain has created tremendous problems that have strained state and local capabilities. The result is that many of our citizens simply are not getting the help they need. [White House, 9/3

Result number: 59

Message Number 207874

Re: Saddam for President of Iraq View Thread
Posted by john h on 8/19/06 at 19:28

Bill Clinton missed getting Bin Laden on at least two occasions. Once, Libera was going to turn him over to us and on another occasion we missed him with a bomb at a meeting in Afghanistan. Probably waiting for a warrant to be issued from some judge in Detroit!

Frankly, I am amazed that much of the judiciary and the media are worrying about our Constitutional freedoms when we want have any Constitution if these Islamist have their way. When I walk out of my house each morning I am not worried about my Constitutional rights but I am worried we might not be listening into some information that might save my life and all Americans. We seem to swatting at mosquitoes while the tiger is carrying us away. We are in a WAR with people who hate us for what we are. They are not going to change. The UN is a bogus outfit that can do nothing that requires force. What do you think is more likely to kill you first? An Islamist terrorist or the fact that our intelligence agencies are listening to foreign traffic on radios and cell phones? This idiot judge in Detroit appointed by Jimmy Carter not only found our listening to possible terrorist to be unconstitutional but went into some non legal diatribe about good and evil. Where do we find judges like this? I think an hope Congress will pass the legislation while her findings have been stayed to give our intelligence community the tools it needs to protect us. I suspect about 85% of the public would agree on this regardless of the ACLU. Lincoln declared Martial Law during the Civl War. Did the Governor of LA not declare Martial Law in N.O. after Katrina for a period of time. That seems to infringe on your civil rights but who would disagree with doing this. Would you be more worried about your civil rights or thugs robbing you of everything you had or worse yet shooting you.

Result number: 60

Message Number 207446

Re: Katrina "victims" victimize Texas View Thread
Posted by john h on 8/16/06 at 09:40

I really cannot speak towards the Katrina victims although Arkansas was the second state behind Texas where they were displaced to. I did not notice any increase in crime but then I was not looking for it.

I can speak to the influx of the Cuban Boat People that Castro sent to our shores many years ago. Many were mental patients, criminals, etc that he cleared out of his institutions. A large camp was established in Ft Smith, Arkansas. The crime in that area went off the map and as I recall it may have cost Clinton the only election he ever lost (Governor). New Orleans was a poor city to begin with and rampant with crime so the bad guys had to go somewhere. Houston would seem like a good place for them. Large with a lot of available drugs and buyers.

Result number: 61

Message Number 207390

Re: Katrina "victims" victimize Texas View Thread
Posted by kelly l on 8/15/06 at 18:12

wow!!

Result number: 62

Message Number 207375

Re: Katrina "victims" victimize Texas View Thread
Posted by marie on 8/15/06 at 16:02

You both represent the Republican party well. Thanks for the quotes!!!!

Result number: 63

Message Number 207318

Re: Katrina "victims" victimize Texas View Thread
Posted by know them on 8/15/06 at 05:53

The trouble in Texas is because the vast majority of evacuess were ******* and they just brought the crimes they always commited in NO with them. These are the same lazy ******* who think that something that happened 200 years ago entitles them to be anti social, lazy sloths. But Obama being a ****** himself will see too it that all the lazy n****** get a free government ride, as if most of them are not geting that now. If ******* don't commit most of the crimes in the USA why are there so many ******* in jail? I know Dorothy, they are there unjustly. they are all innocent.
As the ******* come back to NO the crime rate is oncce agin rising. Every city in the USA that has a very large % of ******* living there are virtualy unlivable for decent law abiding people.
If either Hillary, the wicked witch or Obama, the ******, gets into the "white" house this country is doomed.

Result number: 64

Message Number 207296

Katrina "victims" victimize Texas View Thread
Posted by larrym on 8/14/06 at 17:51



Katrina Victims Blamed for Houston Crime
By PAUL J. WEBER, Associated Press Writer
1 hour ago

HOUSTON - A letter to inmate No. 1352951 and a cell phone bill for $76.63, both found in a soggy New Orleans duplex ruined by Hurricane Katrina, led Louisiana bounty hunter James Martin to Texas. Again.

It marked the seventh time since Katrina that Martin, whose pursuit of bail jumpers often begins with clues salvaged from abandoned New Orleans homes, has followed a trail to Texas.

"I don't think Texas really knows what they got," Martin said.

Katrina sent a lot of bad guys to Texas, as Houston is finding out.

Houston took in 150,000 evacuees _ the most of any U.S. city _ after Katrina struck on Aug. 29. Houston police believe the evacuees are partly responsible for a nearly 17.5 percent increase in homicides so far this year over the same period in 2005.

About 21 percent of Houston's 232 homicides through July 25 involved an evacuee as either a suspect or a victim, according to police, who attribute much of the bloodshed to fighting among rival New Orleans gang members.

"New Orleans allowed a lot of these guys to stay on the street for whatever reason or be picked up and released after 60 days," said Capt. Dale Brown, who oversees Houston's homicide division. "Texas law, I don't want to say it's tougher, but we take these offenses very seriously."

Judge Robert Eckels, chief executive of Harris County, which includes Houston, said Katrina evacuees arrested in the Houston have cost the county's criminal justice system more than $18 million. In June, Texas Gov. Rick Perry sent $19.5 million to Houston to help pay for additional officers and overtime to police the city after Katrina.

The police and the Harris County sheriff's department said they have no figures on how many Katrina evacuees have been arrested. Houston police said misdemeanor and felony arrests overall actually dropped last fall from the same period a year earlier. But the sheriff's department reported a 41 percent increase in felony arrests in November from the year before.

"I think some saw (Katrina) as an opportunity," Martin's bounty-hunting partner, Michael Wright, said of evacuees who fled New Orleans with criminal records. "No one knows who they are over here."

Katrina evacuees received fair warning when they arrived in Houston. Days after the storm, Mayor Bill White went on television, flanked by Houston police, and welcomed Katrina's bedraggled survivors with a stern warning that a jail cell was waiting for anyone who crossed the line.

Evacuee Vincent Wilson, a leader of the Katrina Survivors Association, was impressed. He said that in New Orleans before Katrina, "everyone knows that if the jail's crowded you get a slap on the hand and get released."

Eckels predicted the county's worst guests will go home once their federal assistance dries up. And if many choose to stick around, the county will be ready: "We don't put up with it here. If you break the law, you're going to be prosecuted."

Result number: 65

Message Number 206017

Re: ASTYM View Thread
Posted by arama on 8/02/06 at 07:33

katrina,
you said you tried massage, but according to the description of ASTYM it sounds like a form of "massage" which means manipulation of soft tissue. is it ture the treatment is just rubbing something over your troubled area & stretching. or what?

Result number: 66

Message Number 204508

Re: Dems taking funds from questionable donors View Thread
Posted by marie on 7/18/06 at 10:28

If we can't help our own then we have no business helping other countries. Agreed that LA must take on the burdens of most of this. The money and funding are there but the task is overwhelming. I don't know about all of the Katrina victims of the storm but many of them are unable to return because housing isn't available or is outrageously priced. Making a blanket statement about displaced LA citizens doesn't represent all their feelings on the subject. The good news is that on the 1 year anniversary of the Katrina storm displaced LA citizens will be eligble to vote in their host state.

Result number: 67

Message Number 204499

Re: Dems taking funds from questionable donors View Thread
Posted by john h on 7/18/06 at 09:52

Dorothy: there are large areas of New Orleans that will never be occupied again so I am no surprised. Who's responsibility is it to ultimately rebuild New Orleans? I doubt it is the Federal Government as they are not the cure all for all disasters. I remain puzzled how people can build homes in areas such as the outer banks, flood plains of the Mississippi Delta, and at the foot of St Helens and expect to be compensated over and over again by insurance? Ultimately all Americans pay for this and it is almost a 100% chance that flooding or some disaster will come. I doubt their can be levies built high enough or strong enough to withstand a category V hurricane. New Orleans will never be the same. We have the second largest number of New Orleans immigrants living in Arkansas. Many come on TV and say they will never go back and are integrating into the community to stay. I talked to a man representing Entergy which supplies power to N.O. He was looking for land to build a new Entergy HQ on as the current one in N.O. is uninhabitable and they never again want to face what they faced with Katrina. There will be a New Orleans but it will probably be half the size of the old N.O. You cannot defeat Mother Nature. Looking at it personally would you build a new home in N.O. below sea level? I would not nor would I build a home anywhere in the 100 year flood plane on on some slope with soft dirt overlooking the Pacific. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

Result number: 68

Message Number 204465

Re: Dems taking funds from questionable donors View Thread
Posted by marie on 7/17/06 at 22:13

Is this suppose to balance the Abramoff Scandal, Enron Scandal, Duke Cunningham scandal, Tom Delay Scandal, Scooter libby scandal, The Diebold scandal in Ohio (donating 10k to Blackwell), the New Hampshire phone Jamming scandal,
Taft's Coingate in Ohio scandal or McGreevey's affair?


Sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_New_Hampshire_Senate_election_phone_jamming_scandal
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2002307235_ohiocoin05.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-16-coingate-taft_x.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Abramoff
http://www.wtol.com/global/story.asp?s=5012724&ClientType=Printable
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/28/cunningham/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/30/AR2005123001480.html
http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/lit/enron/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Libby
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/12/mcgreevey.nj/

Or is it a distraction from our current administration's failure to respond to NOLA residents adequately, Problems in Iraq, Unfair trade with China, Dubois port deal, binLaden has not been captured, WMD's ???, Gannongate or that the whitehouse paid Williams for PR of No Child Left Behind?

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=George_W._Bush:_Hurricane_Katrina
http://www.uswa.org/uswa/program/content/overview_sub.php?modules2_ID=25&modules_ID=25
http://www.politicsnh.com/?q=node/99
http://newsmine.org/archive/9-11/binladen/bush-not-concerned-with-bin-laden.txt
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/03/13/Bush.news.conference/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War
http://www.rateitall.com/i-723715-jeff-gannon-jim-guckert.aspx
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/02/02/white_house_friendly_reporter_under_scrutiny/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-01-06-williams-whitehouse_x.htm

"The chief weapons inspector, Charles Duelfer, has now issued a comprehensive report that confirms the earlier conclusion of David Kay that Iraq did not have the weapons that our intelligence believed were there." George W. Bush Oct. 7, 2004

Just wondering because I don't think corruption is acceptable from either party! Democrats and Republicans should remember that they answer to us. :)

Result number: 69

Message Number 203791

Re: that's not what it's about....... View Thread
Posted by JudyS on 7/12/06 at 10:59

Dorothy - I hope you'll accept my apologies for 'butting in' on your note to Bob G but......well, I think your reasoning is the best I've read so far.

Why not political posts? Because they've always, on this social board, ended up being hateful and long-winded and imposing. They get in the way. They've driven good people away. We lost Carole, more or less, when the Katrina talk here turned politically hateful.

Social/Support....the word 'support' says it all.

I think your questions are very, very reasonable and well thought-out. Why does Scott allow the truly disgusting stuff? We've had that conversation also - quite recently in fact. He allows it because he likes it.....at least that's my take. You're right, there's no rhyme nor reason. I think Scott knew exactly what he was doing when he introduced a political topic a couple of weeks ago. He manipulated us and we fell for it. One wonders why the rest of us don't follow Julie and Suzanne.

Last, the arguments re: ESWT, etc., are at least about feet. And, notwithstanding the anger that occurs there also, I believe that readers should be able to learn as many sides of foot treatments as possible.

It's just sad, very sad, that Scott doesn't want to work at making sure the 'be nice' rule is adhered to.

Result number: 70

Message Number 203266

Terrorism, a non issue nothin to worry about View Thread
Posted by larry m on 7/07/06 at 11:21

Bomb tunnel, flood city

One man is busted in Beirut, others hunted across
globe and terrorists are seen linked to Zarqawi



BY ALLISON GENDAR in New York
and JAMES GORDON MEEK in Washington
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS


New Jersey-bound traffic speeds through Holland Tunnel beneath more than 40 feet of earth and concrete - and the Hudson. Experts say that terrorists would need huge amount of explosives, and even more expertise to have a chance to rupture the tunnel.

The FBI has uncovered what officials consider a serious plot by jihadists to bomb the Holland Tunnel in hopes of causing a torrent of water to deluge lower Manhattan, the Daily News has learned.
The terrorists sought to drown the Financial District as New Orleans was by Hurricane Katrina, sources said. They also wanted to attack subways and other tunnels.

Counterterrorism officials are alarmed by the "lone wolf" terror plot because they allegedly got a pledge of financial and tactical support from Jordanian associates of top terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi before he was killed in Iraq, a counterterrorism source told The News.

It's not clear, however, if any cash or assistance was delivered.

The News has learned that at the request of U.S. officials, authorities in Beirut arrested one of the alleged conspirators, identified as Amir Andalousli, in recent months. Agents were scrambling yesterday to try to nab other suspects, sources said.

They didn't indicate how many people were the target of the international dragnet but said they were scattered all over the world.

"This is an ongoing operation," one source said.

U.S. agents were allowed to take part in the interrogation of Andalousli, a source said.

FBI and New York City Police Department officials would not comment yesterday about the investigation, which has been kept under wraps for months.

The plotters wanted to detonate a massive amount of explosives inside the Holland Tunnel to blast a hole that would destroy the tunnel, everyone in it, and send a devastating flood shooting through the streets of lower Manhattan.

It is assumed by officials the thugs would try to use vehicles packed with explosives.

Sources said that New York City officials believed the plan could conceivably work with enough explosives placed in the middle of the tunnel, which runs underneath the river bed, a source said.

But others doubted the plot was feasible.

"You are talking major, major explosives and knowledge of blast effect to make this happen," said another senior counterterrorism source.

Besides bedrock, the tunnel is protected by concrete and cast-iron steel.

Experts also said that even if the tunnel cracked, the Financial District would not be flooded because it is above the level of the river.

The FBI discovered the plot by monitoring Internet chat rooms, where the aspiring

Result number: 71

Message Number 202342

Why I support Evan Bayh for president in 08 & who do you like? View Thread
Posted by marie on 6/27/06 at 20:20

I am promoting Senator Bayh for the 2008 Democratic Candidate. I don't want to argue who is best but I'd like to hear who you like. Please have fun with it. :) Hey stump your candidate!

I'm quoted in this article somewhere.
Bloggers Push Bayh For President

Issues In Focus
Economy

Energy

Healthcare

Trade

Agriculture

War On Terrorism

Evan Bayh Flyer: Print it or Email it






Image hosted by Photobucket.com


Videos & MP3

Karl Rove & National Security

Hold Them Accountable on Iraq

Energy Independence

Bayh On Walter Reid Hospital

Bayh In New Hampshire

Audio: Bayh's Speech In Colorado

Video: Bayh On CSPAN

Bayh Demands Justice For Our Troops

Video: Bayh In NH on WMUR

Video: Bayh On CNN Lou Dobb Tonight

Video: Bayh On The Steel Industry

Video: Bayh On Cost of College

Video: Fiscal Conservative

University of Virginia Commencement Speech

1996 DNC Keynote Speech





Blogers Supporting Bayh

Result number: 72

Message Number 200785
Re: To Judy View Thread
Posted by Ralph on 6/09/06 at 10:02

You must be a long time poster and reader of the authors other works.

Didn't realize until I read an article in one of the many newspapers I take that the Podiatrist who were among the many others displaced by Katrina are now having to go before boards if they haven't already, in the states they settled in, to apply for license to practice.

Different states having different requirements the licensing boards are taking the time to consider each individual doctor that comes before them. They are not give out just blanket license. The article said among the things considered is their educational background and the examinations they took at the time of graduation, background checks etc.

This article appeared in a Texas newspaper and what made it stand out for me was the question Dr. Z posed in an earlier post "do you even know what the tests were like in 1975". Well after reading the article I definately know there probably was an entire section missing.

The New Orleans doctor in the article had graduated in '85 and the board members he sat before agreed that he couldn't have taken Section 3 of the exam because no Section 3 existed when he took his test.

A postive to come from all of this discussion might be found in the article I'm mentioning above. That is, in the field of Podiatry the doctors who apply for license in the state of Texas having been victims of Katrina are not just being given a pass to practice there. They must prove their educational background and be judged by their peers. A high priority is placed on the standard of education and examination taken today. This is a good thing one the Podiatry Medical field has taken very seriously.

Result number: 73

Message Number 200103

Re: ASTYM - reply View Thread
Posted by SA on 5/31/06 at 14:06

Hi Katrina,
I'm a runner and would be interested in learning more about this. How can one find practioners, etc-is there a website? Please email me at aytur at email.unc.edu. Thanks!

Result number: 74
Searching file 19

Message Number 199852

Re: ASTYM - reply View Thread
Posted by Katrnia on 5/25/06 at 18:24

The katrina post was by me. I received it by email. Here is my reply.

Hi,
I am not favorable towards treatments that involve withholding information from the patient as a way for the information withholders to make a profit.

Scott

Result number: 75

Message Number 199851

ASTYM View Thread
Posted by Katrnia on 5/25/06 at 18:22

Hi Scott,

My name is Katrina []. I'm a freelance writer and runner, and now I'm doing public relations for a company in Muncie, Indiana that created treatment that really works for tendinopathies such as plantar fasciitis.

ASTYM is a process that remodels soft tissue. It is a science-based treatment (Performance Dynamics researched the process thoroughly before releasing it to the public) that is non-invasive, requires no drugs or needles, asks that the patient actually DO the activity that caused the injury in the first place, AND IT WORKS.

I know--I sound like a PR person, but I had terrible plantar fasciitis, and no traditional method of healing worked (ice, rest, ultrasound, iontophoresis, massage.) My local physical therapist was newly-trained in ASTYM, and she suggested it. I kept running, and in about 12 weeks my plantar fasciitis was gone.

Would you be interested in hearing more about this, or having an article submitted to your Web page about ASTYM?

Let me know!

Katrina

Result number: 76

Message Number 196861

Re: Problems on the Boards View Thread
Posted by Suzanne D. on 4/03/06 at 22:17

Thank you so much, Carole; that is kind of you to say. It is also nice to see your name here once again!

You, as always, have summed up the situation clearly and concisely: "there was once a time when people wouldn't automatically assume the worst meaning from someone when they read posts". There was a trust and a certain comraderie...

Anyway, I don't frequent the boards as often now, either, but it was good to hear from you. Are things s l o w l y getting back to normal for you following Katrina? I think of you so often.

Suzanne :)

Result number: 77

Message Number 196689

Re: Problems on the Boards View Thread
Posted by Carole C in NOLA on 4/01/06 at 09:43

Suzanne, it's good to see a post from you. You are one of the sweetest and kindest persons I have ever "met" online, in any venue.

Dorothy, there was once a time when people wouldn't automatically assume the worst meaning from someone when they read posts - - I know that is hard to believe, these days.

Kathy, I miss the way it used to be, also. I don't even read the board very often any more. Katrina and the upcoming hurricane season 2006 have provided me with enough aggravation right now.

Carole C

Result number: 78

Message Number 196261

MBA implant needs replacing in 9yr old. View Thread
Posted by dmmnacho on 3/26/06 at 19:49

My daughter is 9. Two days before Katrina hit us, she had implants put in. Now 6 months later they are backing out and can be felt with fingers easily. She hurts every day. Is it a common occurance to have to replace them? I do not want to have to do this every 6 months. Another Dr. we saw for a second opinion says he uses Sinus Tarsi Implants. Which are better? Also, is there any such thing as a Pediatric Podiatrist? I can't seem to find one.

Result number: 79

Message Number 194032

Re: 11,000 Trailers View Thread
Posted by Kathy G on 2/23/06 at 10:14


The lack of communication following the Katrina episode makes one wonder if anyone in the government knows what anyone else is doing. Is all the money Bush and Clinton are raising getting to the people who need it?

What a disgrace that all those trailers are going to waste.

One wonders, if 9-11 happened today, would we be any better prepared to deal with it? I won't continue with my ideas on the subject because it could become a political discussion but I think everyone would agree that in the aftermath of Katrina, the government agencies have to do better.

Result number: 80

Message Number 190850

Re: to Carole... View Thread
Posted by Carole C in NOLA on 1/05/06 at 20:43

Oh my, Suzanne! I'm glad you were not caught in a tornado! I didn't hear about them on the news. Glad you kept your students late, to make sure they didn't get hurt either. It's been warmer than usual here, too. Strange weather!

Things are still pretty strange here. I hesitate to talk about it because it sounds like a lot of whining. There are parts of the city that you can travel through for miles and miles that look worse than ever and are scary, abandoned, and desolate. This is the majority of the city.

On the other hand, my suburb has twice its previous population. Traffic is bad to impossible at times. Lots of horn honking, traffic lights work, and while stores are mostly open, they are crowded too and there is a lot of pushing and shoving and such. Rents have doubled or tripled. Few people have received anything from their insurance companies yet, so real estate prices have not risen much. Grocery stores are back to normal, other than damaged signs and fronts and such.

About 1/3 of the homes have FEMA or other trailers in front of them, but many or most of the FEMA trailers are unusable, locked, and not hooked up, so people have to live elsewhere and just look at the "trailer decorations" in their yards until they can get FEMA to let them live there. That's been taking 6-8 weeks or more, for a few minutes of FEMA's time. FEMA is a four letter word, here! lol

In my neighborhood we now get mail two or sometimes three times a week, though we mostly only get bills; magazines, Christmas cards, and most junk mail apparently were transported into some other dimension or black hole. I finally got a Linens 'N' Things 20% off coupon, which I like to get, and a Bed, Bath, and Beyond $5 off coupon. :) UPS is as bad as USPS, taking weeks for overnight packages. Of course, in most of the region there is still no mail delivery at all for those living in their homes. So, I'm lucky.

We are getting back the first of our four elevators at work tomorrow, which will be welcomed because people have been walking up as far as the fifth floor to work every day for almost three months now. I work on the third floor, so I'm happy (those stairs are very unusually steep, and concrete! Not good for the feet). Floors 6-10 are still gutted and open, and not usable.

Every day is a little bit better, but very, very slowly. The famous streetcars now run for just a few blocks up Canal street, and then turn around and come back. So, they aren't very helpful as mass transportation, but they look good on TV I suppose. We will be having Mardi Gras at the end of February, though many residents are mystified as to where any tourists will be housed. Maybe more hotels will be open by then.

Some people have been having a lot of problems with stress and despair. The suicide rate is an order of magnitude greater than the year before the storm. But on the bright side, many people who haven't been living in this all this time are expected to return this month, since the schools are opening. So, maybe they will feel less worn out by the devastation, and maybe their presence will give our community a little more energy hope, and uplifted spirit.

We have a promise from the government that our levees will be put back to where they were before Katrina by June - - but many people have a hard time believing that could be done. Guess we will see! The possibility of repaired levees is a ray of sunshine, and gives us a lot of hope. The greatest fear is another Katrina next hurricane season (which begins June 1st).

Inside my house, everything is normal and the way I like it, again. So, perhaps I tend to stay home more than before. I still go to work, and the gym and Weight Watchers. I don't really drive around for fun, though, or shop for fun any more because of the crowds.

I can retire in 2009, and at that time I can move away if I feel the levees are still inadequate.

Carole C

Result number: 81

Message Number 190089

Re: dolorclast shockwave therapy View Thread
Posted by Dorothy on 12/21/05 at 14:10

Dr. Ed -

Yes, it is interesting...... but then, you know the old funny stuff: Martians are observing earth and they determine that dogs rule planet earth and humans are their servants. Humans take them out for walks, clean up their waste and serve them their meals...... etc etc...
So, maybe the Critter Lobby is powerful when it comes to their health care. They did seem to get equal, even more sympathetic, coverage and care during Katrina!

Result number: 82
Searching file 18

Message Number 188090

Re: Happy THANKSgiving! View Thread
Posted by Kathy G on 11/23/05 at 17:42


To you all, old posters and new, may you have a happy day and may we all be thankful for our good fortune. My prayers are still with the victims of Hurricanes Katrina and Wilma. May they find a final place to live and settle down and try to get their lives back together.

May we find peace so that our troops can come home.

And may we all be able to dance the polka or any other dance of our choosing next year at this time! You know, to help work off all that turkey, mashed potatoes and pie!

Result number: 83

Message Number 187681

Are we all up on this??? View Thread
Posted by Ralph on 11/17/05 at 18:01

November 16, 2005

Being a Patient

Young, Assured and Playing Pharmacist to Friends
By AMY HARMON

Nathan Tylutki arrived late in New York, tired but eager to go out dancing. When his friend Katherine K. offered him the Ritalin she had inherited from someone who had stopped taking his prescription, he popped two pills and stayed out all night.

For the two college friends, now 25 and out in the working world, there was nothing remarkable about the transaction. A few weeks later, Katherine gave the tranquilizer Ativan to another friend who complained of feeling short of breath and panicky.

"Clear-cut anxiety disorder," Katherine decreed.

The Ativan came from a former colleague who had traded it to her for the Vicodin that Katherine's boyfriend had been prescribed by a dentist. The boyfriend did not mind, but he preferred that she not give away the Ambien she got from a doctor by exaggerating her sleeping problems. It helps him relax after a stressful day.

"I acquire quite a few medications and then dispense them to my friends as needed. I usually know what I'm talking about," said Katherine, who lives in Manhattan and who, like many other people interviewed for this article, did not want her last name used because of concerns that her behavior could get her in trouble with her employer, law enforcement authorities or at least her parents.

For a sizable group of people in their 20's and 30's, deciding on their own what drugs to take - in particular, stimulants, antidepressants and other psychiatric medications - is becoming the norm. Confident of their abilities and often skeptical of psychiatrists' expertise, they choose to rely on their own research and each other's experience in treating problems like depression, fatigue, anxiety or a lack of concentration. A medical degree, in their view, is useful, but not essential, and certainly not sufficient.

They trade unused prescription drugs, get medications without prescriptions from the Internet and, in some cases, lie to doctors to obtain medications that in their judgment they need.

A spokeswoman for the Drug Enforcement Administration says it is illegal to give prescription medication to another person, although it is questionable whether the offense would be prosecuted.

The behavior, drug abuse prevention experts say, is notably different from the use of drugs like marijuana or cocaine, or even the abuse of prescription painkillers, which is also on the rise. The goal for many young adults is not to get high but to feel better - less depressed, less stressed out, more focused, better rested. It is just that the easiest route to that end often seems to be medication for which they do not have a prescription.

Some seek to regulate every minor mood fluctuation, some want to enhance their performance at school or work, some simply want to find the best drug to treat a genuine mental illness. And patients say that many general practitioners, pressed for time and unfamiliar with the ever-growing inventory of psychiatric drugs, are happy to take their suggestions, so it pays to be informed.

Health officials say they worry that as prescription pills get passed around in small batches, information about risks and dosage are not included. Even careful self-medicators, they say, may not realize the harmful interaction that drugs can have when used together or may react unpredictably to a drug; Mr. Tylutki and Katherine each had a bad experience with a medication taken without a prescription.

But doctors and experts in drug abuse also say they are flummoxed about how to address the increasing casual misuse of prescription medications by young people for purposes other than getting high.

Carol Boyd, the former head of the Addiction Research Center at the University of Michigan, said medical professionals needed to find ways to evaluate these risks.

"Kids get messages about street drugs," Ms. Boyd said. "They know smoking crack is a bad deal. This country needs to have a serious conversation about both the marketing of prescription drugs and where we draw the boundaries between illegal use and misuse."

To some extent, the embrace by young adults of better living through chemistry is driven by familiarity. Unlike previous generations, they have for many years been taking drugs prescribed by doctors for depression, anxiety or attention deficit disorder.

Direct-to-consumer drug advertising, approved by the Food and Drug Administration in 1997, has for most of their adult lives sent the message that pills offer a cure for any ill. Which ones to take, many advertisements suggest, is largely a matter of personal choice.

"If a person is having a problem in life, someone who is 42 might not know where to go - 'Do I need acupuncture, do I need a new haircut, do I need to read Suze Orman?' " said Casey Greenfield, 32, a writer in Los Angeles, referring to the personal-finance guru. "Someone my age will be like, 'Do I need to switch from Paxil to Prozac?' "

For Ms. Greenfield, who could recite the pros and cons of every selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor on the market by the time she graduated from college, years of watching doctors try to find the right drug cocktails for her and for assorted friends has not bolstered faith in their expertise.

"I would never just do what the doctor told me because the person is a doctor," said Ms. Greenfield, who dictates to her doctors what to prescribe for her headaches and sleep problems, and sometimes gives her pills to friends. "I'm sure lots of patients don't know what they're talking about. But lots of doctors don't know what they're talking about either."

Prescriptions to treat attention deficit disorder in adults age 20 to 30 nearly tripled from 2000 to 2004, according to Medco, a prescription management company. Medications for sleeping disorders in the same age group showed a similar increase.

Antidepressants are now prescribed to as many as half of the college students seen at student health centers, according to a recent report in The New England Journal of Medicine, and increasing numbers of students fake the symptoms of depression or attention disorder to get prescriptions that they believe will give them an edge. Another study, published recently in The Journal of American College Health, found that 14 percent of students at a Midwestern liberal arts college reported borrowing or buying prescription stimulants from each other, and that 44 percent knew of someone who had.

"There's this increasingly widespread attitude that 'we are our own best pharmacists,' " said Bessie Oster, the director of Facts on Tap, a drug abuse prevention program for college students that has begun to focus on prescription drugs. "You'll take something, and if it's not quite right, you'll take a little more or a little less, and there's no notion that you need a doctor to do that."

Now, Going Online for Pills

The new crop of amateur pharmacists varies from those who have gotten prescriptions - after doing their own research and finding a doctor who agreed with them - to those who obtain pills through friends or through some online pharmacies that illegally dispense drugs without prescriptions.

"The mother's little helpers of the 1960's and 1970's are all available now on the Internet," said Catherine Wood, a clinical social worker in Evanston, Ill., who treated one young client who became addicted to Xanax after buying it online. "You don't have to go and steal a prescription pad anymore."

In dozens of interviews, via e-mail and in person, young people spoke of a sense of empowerment that comes from knowing what to prescribe for themselves, or at least where to turn to figure it out. They are as careful with themselves, they say, as any doctor would be with a patient.

"It's not like we're passing out Oxycontin, crushing it up and snorting it," said Katherine, who showed a reporter a stockpile that included stimulants, tranquilizers and sleeping pills. "I don't think it's unethical when I have the medication that someone clearly needs to make them feel better to give them a pill or two."

Besides, they say, they have grown up watching their psychiatrists mix and match drugs in a manner that sometimes seems arbitrary, and they feel an obligation to supervise. "I tried Zoloft because my doctor said, 'I've had a lot of success with Zoloft,' no other reason," said Laurie, 26, who says researching medications to treat her depressive disorder has become something of a compulsion. "It's insane. I feel like you have to be informed because you're controlling your brain."

When a new psychiatrist suggested Seraquil, Laurie, who works in film production and who did not want her last name used, refused it because it can lead to weight gain. When the doctor suggested Wellbutrin XL, she replied with a line from the commercial she had seen dozens of times on television: "It has a low risk of sexual side effects. I like that."

But before agreeing to take the drug, Laurie consulted several Internet sites and the latest edition of the Physicians' Desk Reference guide to prescription drugs at the Barnes & Noble bookstore in Union Square.

On a page of her notebook, she copied down the generic and brand names of seven alternatives. Effexor, she noted, helps with anxiety - a plus. But Wellbutrin suppresses appetite - even better.

At the weekly meetings of an "under-30" mood-disorder support group in New York that Laurie attends, the discussion inevitably turns to medication. Group members trade notes on side effects that, they complain, doctors often fail to inform them about. Some say they are increasingly suspicious of how pharmaceutical companies influence the drugs they are prescribed.

"Lamictal is the new rage," said one man who attended the group, "but in part that's because there's a big money interest in it. You have to do research on your own because the research provided to you is not based on an objective source of what may be best."

Recent reports that widely prescribed antidepressants could be responsible for suicidal thoughts or behavior in some adolescents have underscored for Laurie and other young adults how little is known about the risks of some drugs, and why different people respond to them differently.

Moreover, drugs widely billed as nonaddictive, like Paxil or Effexor, can cause withdrawal symptoms, which some patients say they only learned of from their friends or fellow sufferers.

"This view of psychology as a series of problems that can be solved with pills is relatively brand new," said Andrea Tone, a professor of the social history of medicine at McGill University. "It's more elastic, and more subjective, so it lends itself more to taking matters into our own hands."

To that end, it helps to have come of age with the Internet, which offers new possibilities for communication and commerce to those who want to supplement their knowledge or circumvent doctors.

Fluent in Psychopharmacology

People of all ages gather on public Internet forums to trade notes on "head meds," but participants say the conversations are dominated by a younger crowd for whom anonymous exchanges of highly personal information are second nature.

On patient-generated sites like CrazyBoards, fluency in the language of psychopharmacology is taken for granted. Dozens of drugs are referred to in passing by both brand name and generic, and no one is reticent about suggesting medications and dosage levels.

"Do you guys think that bumping up the dosage was a good idea, or should I have asked for a different drug?" someone who called herself Maggie asked earlier this month, saying she had told her doctor she wanted to double her daily intake of the antidepressant fluoxetine to 40 milligrams.

In another recent posting, a participant wrote that his supply of the beta blocker Inderal, acquired in Costa Rica, was running out. He uses the drug for panic attacks, he said, but he has not told his doctor about it. "What do I do/say to get her to prescribe me some?" he asked.

"CraZgirl," who said she was not currently taking any medications, received a resounding "yes" to her posting that asked, "If you wouldn't go on meds for yourself, is it reasonable to do it to keep your marriage intact?"

Still, for some young adults, consulting their peers leads to taking less medicine, not more. When Eric Wisch, 20, reported to an anonymous online group that he was having problems remembering things, several members suggested that he stop taking Risperdal, one of four medications in a cocktail that had been mixed different ways by different doctors.

"I decided to cut back," said Mr. Wisch, a sophomore at the University of Rochester who runs www.thebipolarblog.com, where he posts his thoughts on medications and other subjects. "And I'm doing better." Despite frequent admonitions on all the sites to "check with your Pdoc," an abbreviation for psychiatrist, there are also plenty of tips on how to get medications without a prescription.

"I know I shouldn't order drugs online," one participant wrote in a Sept. 26 posting on the Psycho-babble discussion group. "But I've been suffering with insomnia and my Pdoc isn't keen on sleep aids."

What should he do, the poster wanted to know, after an order he placed with an online pharmacy that promised to provide sleeping pills without a prescription failed to deliver?

Another regular participant, known as "med-empowered," replied that the poster was out of luck, and went on to suggest a private e-mail exchange: "I think I know some sites where you could post your experience and also get info about more reliable sites."

For a hefty markup, dozens of Web sites fill orders for drugs, no prescription required, though to do so is not legal. Instead, customers are asked to fill out a form describing themselves and their symptoms, often with all the right boxes helpfully pre-checked.

Erin, 26, a slender hair stylist, remembers laughing to herself as she listed her weight as 250 pounds to order Adipex, a diet pill, for $113. One recent night, she took an Adipex to stay up cleaning her house, followed by a Xanax when she needed to sleep.

Like many other self-medicators, Erin, who has been on and off antidepressants and sleeping pills since she was in high school, has considered weaning herself from the pills. She wishes she had opted for chamomile tea instead of the Xanax when she wanted to sleep.

"I feel like I have been so programmed to think, 'If I feel like this then I should take this pill,' " she said. "I hate that."

But the problem with the tea, she said, is the same one she faces when she is coloring hair: "It's not predictable. I know how these drugs are going to affect me. I don't know if the chamomile tea will work."

Online pharmacies are not the only way for determined self-prescribers to get their pills. Suffering from mood swings a decade after his illness was diagnosed as bipolar disorder, Rich R., 31, heard in an online discussion group about an antidepressant not available in the United States. A contractor in the Midwest, Rich scanned an old prescription into his computer, rearranged the information and faxed it to pharmacies in Canada to get the drug.

"My initial experience with physicians who are supposed to be experts in the field was disappointing," Rich said. "So I concluded I can do things better than they can."

Even for psychiatrists, patients say, the practice of prescribing psychotropic drugs is often hit and miss. New drugs for depression, anxiety and other problems proliferate. Stimulants like Adderall are frequently prescribed "as needed." Research has found that antidepressants affect different patients differently, so many try several drugs before finding one that helps. And in many cases, getting doctors to prescribe antidepressants, sleeping pills or other psychiatric medications is far from difficult, patients say.

The result is a surplus of half-empty pill bottles that provides a storehouse for those who wish to play pharmacist for their friends.

The rules of the CrazyBoards Web site prohibit participants from openly offering or soliciting pharmaceuticals. But it is standard practice for people who visit the site to complain, tongue-in-cheek, that they simply "don't know what to do" with their leftovers.

The rest takes place by private e-mail. Sometimes, the person requesting the drugs already has a prescription, but because the medications are so expensive, receiving them free from other people has its merits.

A Post-Hurricane Care Package

Dan Todd, marooned in Covington, La., after Hurricane Katrina, said he would be forever grateful to a woman in New Hampshire who organized a donation drive for him among the site's regular participants.

Within two days of posting a message saying that he had run out of his medications, he received several care packages of assorted mood stabilizers and anti-anxiety drugs, including Wellbutrin, Klonopin, Trileptal, Cymbalta and Neurontin.

"I had to drive down to meet the FedEx driver because his truck couldn't get past the trees on part of the main highway," said Mr. Todd, 58. "I had tears in my eyes when I got those packages."

It doesn't always work out so well. When Katherine took a Xanax to ease her anxiety before a gynecologist appointment, she found that she could not keep her eyes open. She had traded a friend for the blue oval pill and she had no idea what the dosage was.

An Adderall given to her by another friend, she said, "did weird things to me." And Mr. Tylutki, who took the Ritalin she offered one weekend last fall, began a downward spiral soon after.

"I completely regretted and felt really guilty about it," Katherine said.

Taking Katherine's pills with him when he returned to Minneapolis, Mr. Tylutki took several a day while pursuing a nursing degree and working full time. Like many other students, he found Ritalin a useful study aid. One night, he read a book, lay down to sleep, wrote the paper in his head, got up, wrote it down, and received an A-minus.

But he also began using cocaine and drinking too much alcohol. A few months ago, Mr. Tylutki took a break from school. He flushed the Ritalin down the toilet and stopped taking all drugs, including the Prozac that he had asked a doctor for when he began feeling down.

"I kind of made it seem like I needed it," Mr. Tylutki said, referring to what he told the doctor. "Now I think I was just lacking sleep."

Result number: 84

Message Number 186161

Re: What is the latest with Carole? View Thread
Posted by Suzanne D. on 10/29/05 at 15:30

On October 11, Carole made the following post here on the Social Board. I trust she won't mind my copying and pasting it for you here:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am beginning my third week living in my home. Yes, it is very difficult but not nearly so hard as being forced to stay away, and not knowing anything! So, I am lucky to be here.

Looks like I'll be able to return to work sometime in the next two weeks! That will be great. Never thought I'd see the day when I'd say THAT. :D LOL

One reason I want to go back to work is that only then will I be able to get in touch with many of my co-workers. I know that at least one was rescued by helicopter from the top of his car in the flood waters and naturally I'm concerned about him and others, especially the elderly.

Life has rapidly returned to (nearly) normal. We have 5-10 foot high piles of trash, garbage, and debris like carpet and drywall out in front of everyone's home, so living here is sort of like living in the city dump. We haven't had any trash pickup since the storm, in most places. It stinks, and it's a health hazard, but at least the streets themselves are clear! So it's a whole lot better than it was. I just wish we could have a battalion of trucks come through and clean up everything at least once.

Small businesses (especially restaurants) have been very slow to recover. Grocery stores, Walmart, Best Buy, CompUSA and so on are open. But trying to eat out is very difficult. Most restaurants have long lines (40 people ahead of me at Subway yesterday) or they are closed. Most also only serve an abbreviated "hurricane menu" of a couple of items, and most of those with drive throughs only have drive through. We get mail delivery twice a week, irregularly. No junk mail!

Some parts of town are so badly damaged they may never recover. It's heart breaking. Frank's parents' house will probably have to be gutted, but we are hoping it will not have to be bulldozed. His father was also building a fishing camp down in St. Bernard Parish, and there are no unaffected houses (and almost no recognizable houses standing) within 10-15 miles of it. It will have to be bulldozed.

Many others that are close to us have lost everything. This is true for every person here and the word "community" has new meaning for many of us. I suppose the average person here spends a good deal of time every day helping the less fortunate in whatever way he/she can. Now we CAN support one another, because we are not dispersed as before. So, we no longer have as much need to rely on the internet or strangers for support.

People who live here have a closeness we have never had before, because we have been through so much together. Virtually no outsiders seem to even have a handle on the enormity of the initial disasters down here, and I believe that is because of less than perfect news coverage.

Still, by now most of us who have homes to return to, are simply working hard to recover, repair, and rebuild. The recovery has progressed remarkably fast and I believe that is because New Orleanians as a group are hard working, determined, and survivors. I am working hard to keep up! :)

Today I repainted the shutters on my house. Katrina had whipped the bushes against them so hard, and it rained so hard, that the paint just wore through.

Sunday I installed a new outdoor ceiling fan to replace the one that was ruined by Katrina. After installing it, I found out the it is getting no "juice". Apparently Katrina somehow affected the electrical connection out to my patio.

Monday (yesterday) I removed 2 months worth of tropical overgrowth from the front bushes and bed in front of my house, so that I could paint the shutters. Then I took the resulting 4 bags full of foliage to the dump (no need to add to the mess).

Slowly we are getting back to normal. I'm probably half way through in the house repairs by now. Many others are leaving, and the carpetbaggers are here in droves, so the community is not as stable as before.

Carole C

Result number: 85

Message Number 184830

Re: nerve block suggested by pain clinic View Thread
Posted by Shari R on 10/14/05 at 22:54

Sandy, I also change shoes all of the time, and It seems that the softer orthotics are a bit better, yet I wonder if I'm getting enough support from them. I'm a bit crazy, and like everone on the site, I do and try everything. My insurance and I are now well over the $20,000 mark. My feet always hurt, so each day I get out my big bag of foot cures and decide which one I want to try that day. So to answer your question.....no reason really. I did have good luck with the hard ones last year, but since the surgery they don't feel as good. I just wish I had a job that was sit down.(that pays). I'll find one eventually. I remember when Katrina struck and someone commented about how bad they're feet hurt seeing those people standing for hours and days. That's how I feel too when I see anyone standing for any length of time. Especially people who are very heavy. It kind of reminds me of when I was having hot flashes. I couldn't stand to see people wearing layers of clothing, esp. turtle necks. Well, that sure was off the subject. Anyhow, you're right I don't know how anyone can have kids at home and have PF. It just stinks!
I'm rambling....and this isn't the social board, so I'll say something about TTS. I think mine is gone since the surgery, but it was alot better than PF.

Result number: 86

Message Number 184684

Re: Fraud View Thread
Posted by Geri on 10/13/05 at 08:50

John and Dorothy: My post is not about Katrina but about you and John, Kathy ,Suzanne, Marie to name a few, and of course our yoga expert. I look forward every day to this site. It is the first place I go when I turn on the computer. I like you and many more have a very painful foot. The different things, events, books and etc. are so interesting to me that many of you write about. I'm mainly a cruiser, however I do put my experience with TTS surgery on the TTS board when I think it will help someone. I missed you Dorothy when you did not post for awhile. You all have such a gift and write such interesting posts. Keep it up, I'm sure there are many who join me in thanking you. Hope we all have a good foot days soon.

Result number: 87

Message Number 184630

Re: Fraud View Thread
Posted by Dorothy on 10/12/05 at 14:06

John H - It's really been disheartening during this Katrina disaster as well as previous disasters to see how quickly and eagerly the scammers and crooks got their "cons" going. A couple of weeks ago, I read of two (I think it was two) Red Cross "volunteers" in California who had scammed some $25,000 from donated funds before they were caught. It's why I said early on, when Katrina and the floods were still in full force, that I hate looters - of all sorts. So many, many knowledgable people in the news were hinting at all the anticipated fraud and scamming that would occur around Katrina for so many reasons..... It's a particularly nasty kind of crime because it fouls good will and good hearts and generous spirits.

I chimed in on this point, John H, because I had been wondering where you were and hadn't seen your posts lately and was glad to see your name there!

Result number: 88

Message Number 184610

Fraud View Thread
Posted by John H on 10/12/05 at 11:39

Several groups of people were arrested at a local Little Rock motel yesterday. They were accepting money from the Red Cross and others posing as victims of Katrina and of course staying at the motel which was being paid for. With around 100 billion dollars in Federal money and who knows how much in private funds available one can only guess how much abuse of funds will take place. Victims want the money and help immediately and it takes time to actually verify who is a victim and who is not. It is very easy for anyone to get the false ID's needed. There must be some verification which is going to take some time. Some are wanting their house paid for by their insurance company without the insurance company having seen the house.

Result number: 89

Message Number 184548

Re: Hi! View Thread
Posted by cwk on 10/11/05 at 20:00

Great to hear from you Carol. You are right, I have no idea of the degree of destruction but I do know and appreciate how a community pulls together. I live in the SF Bay Area and the 89 earthquake was frightening and to a few devastting. It made people slow down and reach out. I remember venturing out for the first time post quake. I stopped by the coffee cafe just liek I had every day for the previous two years. I saw the same people I had seen five days a week for 100 weeks. Before teh quake we sometimes smiled but nver spoke. After the quake everyone spoke, first telling quake stories but the conversatiosn continued. People began sharing tables, unheard of before October 17, 1989. When the cafe closed in 96 we had a party for al teh employees and for each other. I am sure that would have never happened if we had not connected in 89.

New Orleans is a special place. I will be happy to visit again. Will your the focus of your research and/or work change due to Katrina.

Result number: 90

Message Number 184512

Hi! View Thread
Posted by Carole C in NOLA on 10/11/05 at 13:38

Hi, Suzanne and cwk.

I am beginning my third week living in my home. Yes, it is very difficult but not nearly so hard as being forced to stay away, and not knowing anything! So, I am lucky to be here.

Looks like I'll be able to return to work sometime in the next two weeks! That will be great. Never thought I'd see the day when I'd say THAT. :D LOL

One reason I want to go back to work is that only then will I be able to get in touch with many of my co-workers. I know that at least one was rescued by helicopter from the top of his car in the flood waters and naturally I'm concerned about him and others, especially the elderly.

Life has rapidly returned to (nearly) normal. We have 5-10 foot high piles of trash, garbage, and debris like carpet and drywall out in front of everyone's home, so living here is sort of like living in the city dump. We haven't had any trash pickup since the storm, in most places. It stinks, and it's a health hazard, but at least the streets themselves are clear! So it's a whole lot better than it was. I just wish we could have a battalion of trucks come through and clean up everything at least once.

Small businesses (especially restaurants) have been very slow to recover. Grocery stores, Walmart, Best Buy, CompUSA and so on are open. But trying to eat out is very difficult. Most restaurants have long lines (40 people ahead of me at Subway yesterday) or they are closed. Most also only serve an abbreviated "hurricane menu" of a couple of items, and most of those with drive throughs only have drive through. We get mail delivery twice a week, irregularly. No junk mail!

Some parts of town are so badly damaged they may never recover. It's heart breaking. Frank's parents' house will probably have to be gutted, but we are hoping it will not have to be bulldozed. His father was also building a fishing camp down in St. Bernard Parish, and there are no unaffected houses (and almost no recognizable houses standing) within 10-15 miles of it. It will have to be bulldozed.

Many others that are close to us have lost everything. This is true for every person here and the word "community" has new meaning for many of us. I suppose the average person here spends a good deal of time every day helping the less fortunate in whatever way he/she can. Now we CAN support one another, because we are not dispersed as before. So, we no longer have as much need to rely on the internet or strangers for support.

People who live here have a closeness we have never had before, because we have been through so much together. Virtually no outsiders seem to even have a handle on the enormity of the initial disasters down here, and I believe that is because of less than perfect news coverage.

Still, by now most of us who have homes to return to, are simply working hard to recover, repair, and rebuild. The recovery has progressed remarkably fast and I believe that is because New Orleanians as a group are hard working, determined, and survivors. I am working hard to keep up! :)

Today I repainted the shutters on my house. Katrina had whipped the bushes against them so hard, and it rained so hard, that the paint just wore through.

Sunday I installed a new outdoor ceiling fan to replace the one that was ruined by Katrina. After installing it, I found out the it is getting no "juice". Apparently Katrina somehow affected the electrical connection out to my patio.

Monday (yesterday) I removed 2 months worth of tropical overgrowth from the front bushes and bed in front of my house, so that I could paint the shutters. Then I took the resulting 4 bags full of foliage to the dump (no need to add to the mess).

Slowly we are getting back to normal. I'm probably half way through in the house repairs by now. Many others are leaving, and the carpetbaggers are here in droves, so the community is not as stable as before.

Carole C

Result number: 91

Message Number 184038

America Thanks Neil Young! View Thread
Posted by marie on 10/03/05 at 21:46



The Last Walz 1976: Helpless
This one is awesome!!!!!

Neil Young and Phish at Farm Aid
19 minutes

Neil In Berlin 2001

Neil Young: IMAGINE
This is way cool!

Donate To The American Red Cross
Hurricane Katrina and Rita have devastated our Gulf Coast. There is still alot of work to be done. Thank You!


Result number: 92

Message Number 184028

Re: My apolgies to Cwk View Thread
Posted by Shari R on 10/03/05 at 19:11

Kathy G, I pretty much agree with you. I think this site should be for supporting one another because we all have foot problems. During Katrina we did get off the subject, but that's natural at times like that. I just can't stand all the nasty comments anymore. I think politics and racial views need to stay off this site. I'm very sure new posters won't stay around long due to the hateful things that are said here at times. I know there are other sites that people can politically and racially vent, but lets keep it off this site.........my feet are killing me and I just want to have a support group that feels the same as I do. I certainly think personal pictures, and things going on in our lives belongs on the social board........along with sharing our pain, or in some cases the healing process. Let's make this a good place to Share The Pain

Result number: 93

Message Number 184022

Re: ok, let's try to "change subjects" View Thread
Posted by Ed Davis, DPM on 10/03/05 at 18:37

cwk:
That is exactly why Scott had forbidden political discussion on this site, only to recently reverse the policy in light of the Katrina disaster. I believe that he will need to change the board back to a board for social support of heel pain victims, not a political forum.
Ed

Result number: 94

Message Number 183963

Re: Online Community View Thread
Posted by Ed Davis, DPM on 10/03/05 at 00:24

cwk:

My comments apply to the broader issue of politcal discussion based on 4 years of observation and participation and are not focused on issues surrounding Vince. There is never a place for "hate talk" and such discourse cannot be mediated via emoticons.

You need to step back and look at the history of discussion, particularly political discussion on this site to note that many who had seemingly adversarial relationships, often discussed Katrina in significant agreement.

Heated debate had occurred after 9-11 and at the initiation of the Iraq War which led to polarization based on the judgement of individuals based on their stance on one solitary issue or set of issues. The dilemna being in that we can be mulidimensional individuals with significant common ground but political situations lead to polariztion based on a narrow set of issues.
Ed

Result number: 95

Message Number 183938

Re: Online Community View Thread
Posted by cwk on 10/02/05 at 16:54

Liboralis asked,
“Whom decides what these "shared values" are that you want to "guide" people to?


I work for organizations such as schools and other non-profits. Each organization decides as a group the values will inform their work. For example an independent (private) school might decide that they value social, economic and racial diversity of students more than they value the ability of each student to pay full tuition. Selecting this value means that the school will have to find money for student financial aid. Another school might decide to value graduates gaining admission to Ivy League schools and this will probably influence their admission policy.

Every organization must focus on outcomes; in increasing brand awareness or market share; recruiting more students to enroll; improving test scores; convincing voters to pass a bond issue; increasing donations to a non-profit fund. In order to achieve goals the organization must clarify desired outcomes; decide which strategies will lead to the outcomes; allocate resources and determine what community behaviors will support achievement of the outcomes. Generally disagreements and lively debates are a sign of organizational health. Multiple perspectives strengthen the knowledge base of the group. Think of the fable about the blind men and the elephant. Each man felt a different part of the elephant so they each described the unseen creature in very different terms. The only way to get a true idea of the elephant was to combine all of the separate perceptions. One of my roles is to help organizations have frank, sometimes difficult discussions and make decisions that will give their work clarity of focus and unity of purpose. In order to do that we need to understand the reality of the elephant!

This board is an informal community rather than an organization. People first come to Heelspurs to ask questions and learn. Some generous souls stick around to help others. There are often disagreements about treatment protocols but the multiple perspectives are a wonderful way to learn about the many options available to those who suffer. I think that is a good thing and I imagine most, not all, of Heelspurs readers agree.

The social board is different. It’s purpose is not to educate but to connect with unseen friends, fellow pf sufferers. It reminds me of people who gather in the lunchroom for a coffee break or in the parking lot after they drop their children off at school. Most are seeking and giving positive interactions, sharing warmth, humor and life experiences. Everyone knows they can come to the social gathering to gain some type of information. For example I came here hoping to learn how Carol was doing during Katrina. My guess is that the social board is important to people and that it reflects the overall attitudes and behaviors of community. I am not sure about this though and wonder what others think.

I was surprised and saddened to see that Vince used the board to air his judgments of people based on in his words, “a certain skin pigmentation.” In his posting of 09/04/05 Vince declared himself a racist and blamed others for making him one. His name calling continued for eight days until Scott R put an end to political posts on 09/12/05.

I did not have a problem with lively political discussions but find racial slurs and all forms of name calling destructive to the respect and trust a community needs in order to remain a place of intelligent debate and authentic information . I was surprised so few posters objected to Vince’s self described racially based hatred and chose instead to use his words as a launching pad for political discussions. I doubt that Vince would have aired his views in corporate America but maybe he would, given that so few people stood up to him here. I think he and others like him find courage in anonymity. The biggest lesson that I learned from that 8 day discussion is that racism is more accepted that I thought.


In my experience successful, lasting communities value multiple perspectives and experiences. They can, as Liboralis mentioned, agree to disagree” but name calling and racial assumptions are disrespectful and destructive. They reduce the number of perspectives in the group because some people leave and others, fearing attack, are afraid to contribute.

Vince’s attack on Julie for living in Britain or of Kathy for identifying with a team were silly. In my earlier post I said that those comments, like the buffoonery of the half naked fans in the end zone, added no value to the community. Perhaps I was wrong. The network cameras always give the clowns who paint their faces and dance drunkenly some air time. I guess these shots entertain viewers and increase ratings a bit. I noticed that Vince’s comments are always followed by many comments from others. Maybe online communities need someone to stir the pot to make things interesting and maybe that is more important to community members than the value of respectful communication. I guess the lesson might be that every village needs it's _____.

Result number: 96

Message Number 183932

Online Community View Thread
Posted by cwk on 10/02/05 at 14:20

I visit this site for the helpful information but since Katrina I have been fascinated by the exchanges on the social board. One of my professional roles is to study and guide the development shared values, communication and community in organizations. Later this month I am speaking at a conference on the subject of technology and community so the impassioned statements and the reactions to them have informed my presentation in unexpected ways. Although Vince derides sports fans who identify closely with their teams he clearly identifies strongly with the Heelspurs community much like a sports fan identifies with his/her team. He frequently comments on a wide variety of subjects, takes offense when people disagree with him and support those he has attacked. His strong views, often expressed in long posts with many words in all caps and his name-calling remind me of a certain type of sports fan; the fat, ugly guys who paint their faces, bare their chests, yelp and make fools of themselves in endzone at the football game. They add no value to the event but they desperately want attention.

If anyone cares to take the time to respond to this post I would l like to know what, in your opinion, draws people to the board? What prompts some posters to attack others here? Do political exchanges keep people away or increase the traffic here? Do some people like the board because it gives them anonymity to attack others and express sentiments that would not be acceptable in polite, real time communities? Have you learned anything about the nature of communities from this board and the Heelspurs site?

As for me I visited the social board after Katrina because I appreciate Carol and her many contributions to Heelspurs. I wanted to follow her progress. I have thought of her daily during the past month and hope she can return home and to work soon.

Result number: 97

Message Number 183863

Re: Best Wishes, Buck T. View Thread
Posted by Buck T. on 9/30/05 at 15:42

Hello everybody: Thank you for caring. We missed force of Rita, but Ausin and San Antonio closed shelters and hundreds of evacuees came to our small shelter south of Austin. Our small town adopted 80 families from Katrina, and was just recovering, when hundreds came from Rita. We've all worked 14-hour-days for what seems like forever. All I want to do is sleep. Will post something next week about what it was like.
Daughter and grandbaby made it safely here through traffic. They have returned to Houston.

Sincerely, Buck T.

Result number: 98

Message Number 183376

Re: Batten down the hatches!! View Thread
Posted by Ralph on 9/22/05 at 15:48

It will be interesting to see what happens when the Katrina folks have to begin sharing the Red Cross help and Gov. money with new hurricane victims.

Result number: 99

Message Number 183352

Re: Kathy G and Ralph View Thread
Posted by Ralph on 9/22/05 at 10:48

Found what your talking about using the search. I probably missed seeing them because I stopped looking at the site for a while when all the Katrina
posts hit the social board.

I'm surprise that Scott let them go through. Like I say maybe most of us were Katrinaized.

Result number: 100

Message Number 183338

Re: Best Wishes, Buck T. View Thread
Posted by Kathy G on 9/22/05 at 08:28


Buck,

I hope your daughter gets there soon. It is so frightening, especially on the heels of Katrina. They showed the gridlock on one highway this morning and the fact that they are out of gas doesn't help anything.

May your daughter get there safely and may you all be safe. You, and Carole, whose area could be affected by the rains, are in all our thoughts.

If you have electricity when she arrives, please let us know.

Stay safe.

Result number: 101

Message Number 183296

Re: Evacuees Arriving in Arkansas From Houston View Thread
Posted by john h on 9/21/05 at 22:20

Hurricanes according to the NWS run in cycles of about 10 years. Warm waters are only one of many factors that cause or increase the size of hurricanes. On the news today it was announced that a group of Swiss and German scientist have completed a study indicating the earth's warming (if it exist) is due to increase heat from the sun. The sun is getting more hot. Since around 1935 there have been two Cat V hurricanes hit the U.S. I think Camille was the last one and the strongest ever recorded. Wind speeds of over 200-mph were recorded. The other was the 1935 Key West hurricane. Still a long way from a Tsunami that kills 200,000 people. I heard on the news the official death toll is now around 896 from Katrina. Bad but not as bad as the 10,000 many were broadcasting.

Result number: 102

Message Number 183185

Re: ESWT for both feet....found an unbelievable deal! View Thread
Posted by Donald Iain Scott on 9/20/05 at 07:16

To All,
You could still come for a holiday to Australia for 2 weeks and only pay $600 AUD or $450USD ESWT Not Covered by MEDICARE (Australia) or HEALTH FUNDS.

The airfare might be the only draw back and 20 hours flying to the other side of the planet, but we are coming into summer and the temp is mild. No Hurricanes (Katrina a now Rita).
It was hard to imagine the devistation at was generated by that storm. I hope the people can rebuild their lives.

Donald Iain Scott
Podiatrist
ESWT Therapist
Australia

Result number: 103

Message Number 183050

Re: Paying For Building NOLA and the Gulf Coast View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/17/05 at 11:18

If every American was required to pay a $50.00-$200.00 one time tax for Katrina Reconstruction we'd have it paid for. If course those at poverty level incomes should be exclued. Just an idea

Result number: 104

Message Number 183008

Re: Recognizing The Right's Efforts on Katrina View Thread
Posted by Buck T. on 9/16/05 at 11:43

Hi everybody: Just surfing quickly. I am a Christian, but it's not imporant for me to get credit as a Christian, or conservative or Democrat, for helping storm victims. Am helping others because they need help. Bible says serve humbly.
Sincerely, Buck T.

Result number: 105

Message Number 182956

Re: FEMA made my PF worse View Thread
Posted by Margaret B on 9/15/05 at 16:42

Chronic PF for three years, reading this site most days for last 6 months, keeps my heart up.Contribute little because its mostly said and more eloquently by others.Have been really struggling with some folks comments on Katrina but only your mail has brought me out of hiding. Oh bloody well done and how good to hear there are folk like you just helping cause its needed,regardless of whether folk are considered to be deserving or otherwise. You have cheered me up, may even help with speeding up my healing !!!. Can I wish the same to your feet.

Result number: 106

Message Number 182917

Re: Recent Crash of Greek Airliner View Thread
Posted by Ed Davis, DPM on 9/14/05 at 14:37

John:
I have not followed Greek politics and I would be probably making an accurate guess that most people have not. It is my understanding that Greece has a bureaucratic nightmare the rivals if not surpasses ours. It would be tragic if the Greek authorities are as paralyzed as we have been with Katrina.
Ed

Result number: 107

Message Number 182833

From Commander of USS Iwo Jima off coast of NOLA View Thread
Posted by John H on 9/13/05 at 08:55


Subject: IWO Update - 6 Sep 05


Hello All;



Since I took over IWO JIMA over a year ago, I felt as though I had
control of the destiny of the ship. I thought I lost it today, the
first time ever, and that we were merely reacting to events rather than
controlling them.



Within the first 24 hours after arriving pierside in New Orleans, IWO
JIMA has become many things. We are one of the few full service
airports in the area and have been operating aircraft on and off our
deck for almost 15 hours each day. We are also one of the only air
conditioned facilities within a ten mile radius and though we have had
problems making water from the polluted Mississippi, we are also the
only hot shower within miles. All day long we have been accommodating
local policemen, firemen, state troopers, national guard, 82nd Airborne
division personnel with hot showers and hot food. I met an ambulance
team from Minnesota who just drove straight to New Orleans when they
heard of the tragedy and have been supporting hospitals free of charge
for the last week. They hadn't had a hot meal in over a week and were
grateful to have the opportunity to have lunch onboard. The Deputy
Commander of the RI National Guard reported to me that he had guardsmen
who were whipped, but after a hot shower and an IWO JIMA breakfast were
ready to hit the patrols again. Rarely have I seen so many smiling,
happy faces than on these people. After two weeks in the trenches
sleeping on concrete floors, no shower, and eating MREs, good ship IWO
JIMA has been a Godsend. I had an opportunity to talk to the Director
of Homeland Security for a few minutes in my cabin. I asked him if
there was anything more I could do for him, he asked if he could get a
shower. I was glad to turnover my cabin to him. The local FEMA
coordinator and his logistics and security teams were on my quarterdeck
this afternoon asking permission to set up their command center on the
pier next to the ship. While they had sophisticated command and control
equipment, they had no place to berth their 250 FEMA members. We were
glad to give them a home. Contrary to the press, all the FEMA people I
met had been on station since last Sunday (before the Hurricane hit),
never left the area, and have been in the field ever since. The command
duty officer was told that one state trooper had driven 80 miles to get
to the ship. He said that the word was out: Come to IWO JIMA. We
expect that the flood gates will open on us.



Early this morning we received our first medical emergency: an elderly
woman with stroke-like symptoms. Throughout the day we received about a
dozen medical emergencies, the most serious was an elderly man who was
stabbed in the chest and was bleeding to death. The doctors performed
surgery on him and saved his life. I toured the hospital ward; all our
charges were elderly and disadvantaged individuals. As with Hotel IWO
JIMA, we expect to see many more casualties tomorrow.



Our curse appears to be our flight deck and our extraordinary command
and control capabilities. Our challenge today was the tidal wave of
Flag and General Officers that flooded onboard, 17 total, virtually all
without notice. I couldn't believe there were so many involved in this
effort and they all wanted to come here. They poured onto the flight
deck in one helicopter after another in order to meet with General
Honore, the Joint Task Force Commander. The majority showed up around
the same time and all wanted to leave at the same time, making it a
nightmare for our flight deck team to control and coordinate flights on
and off the ship for all these admirals and generals while supporting
the humanitarian effort. I spent most of the day running around the
ship getting these people off and on helicopters and in and out of the
meetings and command spaces. It was like herding cats. But the ship
performed superbly and "flexed" to meet the challenge. Regretfully, we
expect nearly 20 admirals and generals onboard tomorrow for more
meetings. To add to the challenges, virtually all of these commands are
sending liaison staffs to help coordinate issues, and already a number
of admirals and generals have "permanently" embarked. The Inn is full.



I talked to one of the FEMA team members who had also worked the
disaster relief for 9/11. I asked him how much more difficult was the
Katrina relief effort compared to 9/11. He said it was without measure:
thousand of times worse than 9/11. He couldn't articulate the magnitude
of the destruction.



Despite all the challenges, I think we regained control by the end of
the day. We are forearmed for tomorrow's onslaught. At our evening
Dept Head meeting, I asked all my principals to tell me what the
stupidest thing they heard or saw today. The list was enormous. But
the most absurd item was when my Tactical Action Officer, who runs our
24 hour command center (CIC) got a phone call from the Director of the
New Orleans Zoo. Apparently, there was a large fire near the zoo. It
was so intense that the fire department had to abandon the cause, but
military helos were heavily engaged in scooping up giant buckets of
water and dumping in on the blaze in an effort to put it out. The
director complained to us that the noise from the helos was disturbing
the animals, especially the elephants, which he was most concerned
about, and asked us to stop. The TAO thanked him for his interest in
national defense.



It is inspiring to meet and talk to such a huge number of individuals
who are doing the Lord's work to recover this city. They have had
little sleep, little food, no showers, working 16-18 hours a day, and in
some cases no pay, and they are thanking ME for a hot meal! Only in
America. We have turned the corner. It will take an awful long time,
but we have turned the corner.



All the best,

RSC

Result number: 108

Message Number 182802

Re: "America will never be the same" View Thread
Posted by Julie on 9/12/05 at 16:41


Thanks, Marie. The Guardian is an excellent paper, and has covered the Katrina situation well. I've been posting articles from it and other sources because I'm aware that there is concern in the States, and even on these message boards, about the reaction of other countries to what has been happening in the last two weeks. It's dispiriting to go to the trouble to do this and get only the predictable snide, destructive remarks about the UK in response.

So thanks for your thanks. I appreciate them.
.

Result number: 109

Message Number 182787

Re: Recognizing The Right's Efforts on Katrina View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/12/05 at 13:05

For some reason folks have come to view conservatives...Republicans or whatever as less compassionate. I feel there are many unheard voices of outrage and kindness on both sides and wished to point it out. Thank you for your contribution, Dorothy.

Result number: 110

Message Number 182780

Re: The Titanic of our Era View Thread
Posted by Dorothy on 9/12/05 at 11:35

John H - and just to add vis a vis marie's point: many of the science, medical and engineering advances came as a result of military need. Being in the military, particularly if it were universally required, should not be - and I'm not sure that it is, in fact, antithetical to a successful career in science or engineering. That hypothesis has not been tested since Viet Nam and even then, the 'service' was not universally nor fairly required. I don't know the facts but I would guess that military service has enabled far more carerrs in science and engineering than it has inhibited. However, that is not actually my point: my point is that universal national service may have much to recommend it for the betterment of the nation, and also for the betterment of individuals. University professors complain loud and bitterly about the poorly prepared students of "today" and they complain most loudly and bitterly about the abysmally poor social behavior - in class and out - of students of "today". To put it simply: they don't know how to behave properly.
These things are PROBLEMS, among many, in the country - and they cross political party lines, racial lines, gender lines and so on. The military used to be known for shaping up people. I note John's comment about idleness - an important point. Human nature will NOT generally allow idleness - people will get busy at one thing or another and the things they choose to get busy at may not be 'good' for them or for their community or for the country. Beyond idleness, there is an aimlessness that is disturbing. People need to be needed and to have their work and skills valued. Yes, the country needs good, smart scientists and engineers but the country really needs good, smart tradespeople, laborers, technicians, nurses and so on, too. And if Katrina hasn't taught you this, I don't know what would: the country needs good public health workers, sanitation workers, honest police, honest politicians.
The country needs more of the KIND of people who worked in Charity Hospital who fended off looters, manually turned medical machinery sans electricity, and did every other survival thing they could to keep themselves AND the patients alive - while the employees of that nursing home apparently took off and left old, sick people to drown. Maybe I'm wrong, but if parents and schools haven't reared the former kind of people and instead yielded the latter, then I have the feeling that the military has traditionally filled that breach and "shaped up" people to know what is right and to do it, even when it is inconvenient, difficult and dangerous. Somebody somewhere has to. Some schools and some teachers are trying, no doubt, but not enough - and they really aren't in a position to do that effectively.

Result number: 111

Message Number 182776

no more political posts - vince View Thread
Posted by scott r on 9/12/05 at 11:28

OK, no more politically-oriented posts. Katrina can be discussed as long as it is not political. Other posters have shown us other message boards that can take our political discussions. Vince, it's about 100 times easier for me to block variations on your posting profile than it is for you to change ISPs (the only real way you can get around the current blocking scheme). So like all your posts, you're just giving yourself a golden shower by pissing in the wind.

Result number: 112

Message Number 182774

Re: Recognizing The Right's Efforts on Katrina View Thread
Posted by Ed Davis, DPM on 9/12/05 at 11:22

Dorothy:
You are absolutley correct.
Ed

Result number: 113

Message Number 182772

Re: Apologies View Thread
Posted by JudyS on 9/12/05 at 11:12

A perfect idea Marie - the use of your website for the more intense political exchange here. We all knew it would eventually get to the nasty part and it has - on all sides.

Even the kind of discussion that Ed describes is better done in another place because everyone, being human, is likely to be sensitive to even the most innocous of posts regarding Katrina and her aftermath. After all, we all pretty much know eachother's political preferences.

Perhaps it's a good time to take Carole's feelings in to consideration. Perhaps we're even tardy in that. We are a support group for her and for us to continue to rip apart the fabric of her home city and state is not supportive.

I'd love to see the conversation re: Katrina continue at your website.

Result number: 114

Message Number 182770

Apologies View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/12/05 at 11:05

I tend to agree with judy on this. I think we can and should return to discussion of Katrina without the politicizing of the catastrophe. I have been very offended by many remarks here and have perhaps responded without consideration to others and their beliefs. For that I am sorry. However, Judy, the insults have leaned towards attacking liberals and I doubt those who have made the comments will apologise........including both sides. Not meant to be mean just pointing out that many here have fallen into the defensive mode without realizing it. It just happens. JohnH, is right we are not going to change each others mindset on political issues so we are literally blowing in the wind here. I just think we are all pretty upset about the relief effort and have expressed those ideas around it.

Please, please return to the stories of Katrina and try to exclude the political assaults on each other, by all means. The stories speak for themselves and I feel we can discuss them without making it a right or left game.

Also if ya'll want to talk about the political issues use my little message board. Even Vince is welcome as long as he follows the rules. I will not interfere with your conversations. Too busy coordinating relief efforts. :)
http://pub50.bravenet.com/forum/4282972434

Result number: 115

Message Number 182769

Re: Recognizing The Right's Efforts on Katrina View Thread
Posted by Dorothy on 9/12/05 at 11:01

The guy identified as "This Republican" in the anecdote you posted speaks for a lot of Americans, party or beliefs absolutely irrelevant.

Result number: 116

Message Number 182762

Recognizing The Right's Efforts on Katrina View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/12/05 at 10:49

I wanted to take a minute and reflect on the good hearts of America. I think many folks have come together and have done their best for the victims of Katrina. We can worry about the political aspect later and on another message board. Kuodos to all that have spoken out and rolled up their sleeves to assist. It seems that sometimes conservatives are misrepreseted as being cold hearted and maybe a few are but not everyone....Thanks to all.

Free Republic (Conservative Message Board) has maintained this thread to share support links with their readers. Thank you Freepers....I say that with endearment and to those who donated to the Salvation Army. My fav.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1473520/posts

This Republican at a town hall meeting in Texas stood up and stated to Rep. Smith his outrage about the Relief effort.

"Representative Smith," he said firmly, "I have been a Republican since the early 1960's." Oh, no, I thought, here it comes - shill time. This guy had to be part of the crowd called in by the Travis County Republican Party this morning to give Smith some cover.

"I pay a lot for taxes," he continued, "and I consider it a social investment. I am outraged! When this catastrophe hit, the president's response was that we should 'give to private charity.' I am outraged that this party can't support our country. We can't deal with our own self-defense. You need to fire Chertoff and these FEMA clowns. What are you doing with our tax dollars?!"

At this point, the audience broke into applause. Smith, sticking to message, said it will be investigated: "We don't care who's responsible, we just want to find out who's responsible."

We will pull America together to help rebuild the south affected by katrina. I hold southerners dear to my heart as half my family.....and it's a BIG family......live throughout the south and in the affected areas.

Thanks conservatives!

Result number: 117

Message Number 182742

warning vince View Thread
Posted by scott r on 9/12/05 at 08:46

vince, stop posting about political stuff or i'll block you. i started allowing political posts lately because katrina was on everyone's mind and less likely to be controversial. but you're just posting angry stuff that doesn't have much point and i'm getting several requests to block you. just post nice stuff about PF.

Result number: 118

Message Number 182730

"America will never be the same" View Thread
Posted by Julie on 9/12/05 at 04:50

Sorry Mr President, Katrina is not 9/11

America this weekend marked the fourth anniversary of 9/11 as anger over the hurricane continued to mount. The two disasters, says Simon Schama, revealed very different faces of the same country

Monday September 12, 2005
The Guardian

Slipstreaming behind the annual rituals of sorrow and reverence for 9/11, George W Bush has decreed that, five days later, on the 16th, there is to be a further day of solemnities on which the nation will pray for the unnumbered victims of Hurricane Katrina. Prayers (like vacations) are the default mode for this president who knows how to chuckle and bow the head in the midst of disaster but not, when it counts, how to govern or to command. If you feel the prickly heat of politics, summon a hymn to make it go away; make accountability seem a blasphemy.

Thus has George Bush become the Archbishop of Washington even as his aura as lord protector slides into the putrid black lagoon, bobbing with cadavers and slick with oil, that has swallowed New Orleans. No doubt the born-again president is himself sincere about invoking the Almighty. But you can hear the muttered advice in the White House: Mr President, we were in trouble after 9/11; the unfortunate episode of the schoolroom, My Little Goat and all that. But do what you did then; set yourself once more at the centre of the nation; go to the epicentre of the horror and embrace its heroes; make yourself the country's patriotic invigorator and all may yet be well.

So this weekend it was predictable that the president would shamelessly invoke the spirit of 9/11 to cover his shamefully exposed rear end - "resolve of nation ... defend freedom ... rebuild wounded city ... care for our neighbours". But comparisons with 9/11 - the fourth anniversary of which was marked in New York yesterday - will only serve now to reinforce the differences between what the two calamities said about America, and especially about those entrusted with its government. The carnage of 9/11 generated an intense surge of patriotic solidarity, even with America's Babylon, a city scandalously and notoriously indifferent to Heartland values. This was because the mass murders had been committed by people who defined foreignness: theocratic nihilists who equated pluralist democracy with depravity. A hard-ass city supposedly abandoned to the most brutal forms of aggressive individualism (a fiction it liked to cultivate) showed instead the face of American mutualism as volunteers poured into the smouldering toxic crater. Blood and food donations piled up and a mayor disregarded his personal safety to be where he had to be, in the thick of the inferno; his daily press conferences astoundingly bullshit-free, unafraid of bearing bad news; treating his fellow-citizens, mirabile dictu, like grown-ups.

The rest of the country looked at New York and, astoundingly, saw images and heard stories that made themselves feel good about being American: the flag of defiance flown by firemen amid the Gothic ruins; the countless tales of bravery and sacrifice among those trapped inside the towers. For all the horror, this could be made into a good epic of the American character. It was this redeeming sense of national community that protected the president from any kind of serious political scrutiny whenever he invoked 9/11 as the overwhelming reason for launching the invasion of Iraq. As John Kerry found to his cost, unexamined passion triumphed over reasoned argument. Bush won re-election simply by making debate a kind of treason; an offence against the entombed.

Out of the genuinely noble response to 9/11, then, came an unconscionable deceit. Out of the ignoble response to Katrina will come a salutary truth. For along with much of New Orleans, the hurricane has swept away, at last, the shameful American era of the fearfully buttoned lip. Television networks that have self-censored themselves into abject deference have not flinched from their responsibility to show corpses drifting in the water; lines of the forlorn and the abandoned sitting amid piles of garbage outside the Convention Centre; patients from Charity Hospital waiting in the broiling sun in vain for water and medical supplies; helicopters too frightened of armed looters to actually land, but throwing bottles of water down from their 20ft hover. Embarrassed by their ignorance of the cesspool that was the Convention Centre, members of the government protested that it was hard to know what was really going on "on the ground". All they had to do was to turn on the TV to find out.

Millions of ordinary Americans did. And what they saw, as so many of them have said, was the brutality, destitution, desperation and chaos of the Third World. Instead of instinctive solidarity and compassion, they have witnessed a descent into a Hobbesian state of nature; with Leviathan offering fly-by compassion, 30,000ft up, and then, once returned to the White House, broadcasting a defensive laundry list of deliveries, few of which showed up when and where they were needed. Instead of acts of mutual succour, there was the police force of Gretna, south of New Orleans, sealing off a bridge against incoming evacuees, and turning them back under threats of gunfire. Instead of a ubiquitous mayor with his finger on the pulse, and the guts to tell the truth, enter Michael Brown, a pathetically inadequate director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Fema, hounded from his 11-year tenure as supervisor of commissioners and stewards of the International Arabian Horse Association by legal proceedings. Instead of summarily firing "Brownie", the president ostentatiously congratulated him on camera for doing "a heck of a job".

Only on Friday, in an attempt at damage control, was the hapless Brown "recalled" to Washington, his position as Fema director intact.

And instead of an urban community of every conceivable race, religion and even class brought together by trauma, another kind of city, startlingly divided by race and fortune, has symbolised everything about America that makes its people uneasy, ashamed and, finally, perhaps lethally for the conservative ascendancy and its myths, angry. A faint but detectable whiff of mortality is steaming up, not just from the Louisiana mire, but from this Republican administration. Call me a cynic but is it entirely a coincidence that suddenly the great black hope of moderate Republicanism, Colin Powell, is everywhere, publicly repenting of his speech to the UN (and by implication damning those who supplied him with unreliable intelligence), and offering, unbidden, his own lament for the institutional meltdown that followed the breach of the levee. The administration is already thought of as a turkey and the turkey vultures are starting to wheel.

Historians ought not to be in the prophecy business but I'll venture this one: Katrina will be seen as a watershed in the public and political life of the US, because it has put back into play the profound question of American government. Ever since Ronald Reagan proclaimed that government was not the answer but the problem, conservatism has stigmatised public service as parasitically unpatriotic, an anomaly in the robust self-sufficiency of American life. For the most part, Democrats have been too supine, too embarrassed and too inarticulate to fight back with a coherent defence of the legitimacy of democratic government. Now, if ever, is their moment; not to revive the New Deal or the Great Society (though unapologetically preserving social security might be a start) but to stake a claim to being the party that delivers competent, humane, responsive government, the party of public trust.

For the most shocking difference between 9/11 and Katrina was in what might have been expected in the aftermath of disaster. For all the intelligence soundings, it was impossible to predict the ferocity, much less the timing, of the 9/11 attacks. But Katrina was the most anticipated catastrophe in modern American history. Perhaps the lowest point in Bush's abject performance last week was when he claimed that no one could have predicted the breach in the New Orleans levees, when report after report commissioned by him, not to mention a simulation just last year, had done precisely that. But he had cut the budget appropriation for maintaining flood defences by nearly 50%, so that for the first time in 37 years Louisiana was unable to supply the protection it knew it would need in the event of catastrophe. Likewise Fema, which under Bill Clinton had been a cabinet level agency reporting directly to the president, had under his successor been turned into a hiring opportunity for political hacks and cronies and disappeared into the lumbering behemoth of Homeland Security. It was Fema that failed the Gulf; Fema which failed to secure the delivery of food, water, ice and medical supplies desperately asked for by the Mayor of New Orleans; and it was the president and his government-averse administration that had made Fema a bad joke.

In the last election campaign George W Bush asked Americans to vote for him as the man who would best fulfil the most essential obligation of government: the impartial and vigilant protection of its citizens. Now the fraudulence of the claim has come back to haunt him, not in Baghdad but in the drowned counties of Louisiana. In the recoil, disgust and fury felt by millions of Americans at this abdication of responsibility, the president - notwithstanding his comically self-serving promise to lead an inquiry into the fiasco - will assuredly reap the whirlwind.
.

Result number: 119

Message Number 182726

Something to Think About from Chicago Sun-Times View Thread
Posted by Dorothy on 9/12/05 at 00:07


Proof that nothing changed after Sept. 11

September 4, 2005

BY MARK STEYN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

In the Atlantic Monthly a few years back, Robert D. Kaplan went to Liberia, Sierra Leone, and other failed jurisdictions of West Africa and concluded that many of the "citizens" of these "states," roaming the streets raping and killing, belonged to a phenomenon called "re-primitivized man."

Anyone watching TV in recent days will have seen plenty of "re-primitivized man," not in Liberia or Somalia, but in Louisiana. Cops smashing the Wal-Mart DVD cabinet so they can get their share of the booty along with the rest of the looters, gangs firing on a children's hospital and on rescue helicopters, hurricane victims being raped in the New Orleans Convention Center. . . . If you're minded, as many of the world's anti-Americans are, to regard the United States as a depraved swamp, it was a grand old week: Mother Nature delivered the swamp, but plenty of natives supplied the depravity.

Not all of them, of course. But it doesn't really matter if it's only 5 percent or 2 percent or 0.01 percent if everybody else is giving them free rein. Not exactly the most impressive law enforcement agency even on a good day, the New Orleans Police Department sent along some 80 officers to rescue the rape victims trapped in the Convention Center, but were beaten back by the mob. Meanwhile, the ever more pitiful governor was, unlike many of her fellow Louisianans, safe on dry land but still floundering way out of her depth, unable to stand up to the lawlessness even rhetorically or to communicate anything other than emotive impotence.

With most disasters, it's a good rule to let the rescue teams do their work and leave the sniping till folks are safe. But in New Orleans last week the emergency work has been seriously hampered by actual literal sniping, as at that hospital. The authorities lost control of the streets. Which one of Tom Ridge's Homeland Security color codes does that fall under?

After Sept. 11, many people who should have known better argued that it was somehow a vindication of government.

"One of the things that's changed so much since Sept. 11," agreed Vice President Dick Cheney, "is the extent to which people do trust the government -- big shift -- and value it, and have high expectations for what we can do."

Hard to see why he'd say that. Sept. 11 was an appalling comprehensive failure of just about every relevant federal agency. The only government that worked that day was local and state: The great defining image, redeeming American honor at a moment of national humiliation, is those brave New York firemen pounding up the stairs of the World Trade Center. What consolations can be drawn from the lopsided tango between slapdash bureaucrats and subhuman predators in New Orleans?

To be fair, next door, Gov. Haley Barbour of Mississippi has been the Giuliani of the hour, and there are many tales of great courage, like the teams from the Children's Hospital of Alabama who've been helicoptering in to New Orleans to rescue newborn babies.

The comparison with Sept. 11 isn't exact, but it's fair to this extent: Katrina was the biggest disaster on American soil since that day provoked the total overhaul of the system and the devotion of billions of dollars and the finest minds in the nation to the prioritizing of homeland security. It was, thus, the first major test of the post-9/11 structures. Happy with the results?

Muhammad Yousef Al-Mlaifi, director of the Kuwaiti Ministry of Endowment (and no, I've no idea what that means, though feel free to do your own jokes), wrote a hurricane essay arguing the novel line that "The Terrorist Katrina Is A Soldier Of Allah." You could sort of see his point. Imagine if al-Qaida were less boneheaded and had troubled themselves to learn a bit more about the Great Satan's weak spots. Imagine if they'd decided to blow up a couple of levees and flood a great American city. Would local and state government have responded any more effectively than they did last week? After all, Katrina, unlike Osama, let 'em know she was heading their way.

The nation's taxpayers will now be asked to rebuild New Orleans. The rationale for doing so is that it is a great city of national significance. Fine. But, if it's of national significance, what have all the homeland security task forces been doing these last four years? Why is the defense of the city still left to a system of levees each with its own individual administrative regime? If it's of national significance, why did the porkmeisters of the national legislature and national executive branch slash a request by the Army Corps of Engineers for $105 million for additional flood protection measures there down to just over $40 million, at the same time they approved a $230 million bridge to an uninhabited Alaskan island? Given that the transport infrastructure's already in place, maybe it makes more sense to rebuild New Orleans in Alaska.

One thing that became clear two or three months after "the day that everything changed" is that nothing changed -- that huge swathes of the political culture in America remain committed to a bargain that stiffs the people at every level, a system of lavish funding of pseudo-action. You could have done as the anti-war left wanted and re-allocated every dollar spent in Iraq to Louisiana. Or you could have done as some of the rest of us want and re-allocated every buck spent on, say, subsidizing Ted Turner's and Sam Donaldson's play-farming activities. But, in either case, I'll bet Louisiana's kleptocrat public service would have pocketed the dough and carried on as usual -- and, come the big day, the state would still have flopped out, and New Orleans' foul-mouthed mayor would still be ranting about why it was all everybody's else fault.

Those levees broke; they failed. And you think about Chicago and San Francisco and Boston and you wonder what's waiting to fail there. The assumption was that after 9/11, big towns and small took stock and identified their weak points. That's what they told us they were doing, and that's what they were getting big bucks to do. But in New Orleans no one had a plan that addressed levee failure, and no one had a plan for the large percentage of vehicleless citizens who'd be unable to evacuate, and no one had a plan to deal with widespread looting. Given that all these local factors are widely known -- New Orleans is a below-sea-level city with high crime and a low rate of automobile ownership -- it makes you wonder how the city would cope with something truly surprising -- like, say, a biological attack.

Oh, well, maybe the 9/11 commission can rename themselves the Katrina Kommission. Back in the real world, America's enemies will draw many useful lessons from the events of this last week. Will America?

Result number: 120

Message Number 182717

Re: The Titanic of our Era View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/11/05 at 22:15

Oh maybe that's not the place for you after all. it seems Free Republic has many donators to katrina. Kuodos to Republicans with a heart. ;)

Result number: 121

Message Number 182669

Re: Go Pelosi!!!!! A VOICE OF TRUTH! View Thread
Posted by Dorothy on 9/11/05 at 15:39

Dr. Ed -

You know, Dr. Ed, your last comment in your post to Marie raises a question that I have had since the first reports began coming out on 9/11:
HOW could an unknown, unauthorized plane get anywhere near the Pentagon without being intercepted and/or shot down? This is just one of a million questions I have about that whole event, but it is a big one....and I NEVER,EVER hear anyone discussing it.
Perhaps you recall that during the 60s, the Pentagon symbolized/represented American might and militarism and it was also considered (and Americans were told as much) impregnable. This is MILITARY CENTRAL, headquarters. Doesn't anybody else find this absolutely astounding that it was, in fact, so easily penetrated? If the PENTAGON can be so easily attacked with NO defense from the DEFENSE department, then what exactly is any of it about?
We do not know any of the TRUTH about 9/11, everything that preceded it and everything that has proceeded from it. It changed our nation, that's for sure, but I'm not at all convinced that it changed us for the reasons that people in power want us to believe.

People here have been posting timelines regarding the Katrina disaster. Has anyone else read the timeline of the 9/11 day and Bush's movements and his accounts of that day versus reality?

Has anyone here today read about the new Pentagon draft change to policy regarding using nuclear weapons PREEMPTIVELY for situations of suspected WMD based on Bush and Rumsfeld proposals? Repeat: using nuclear weapons preemptively for possible WMD. You can find the story on drudge. It is a Washington Post article. You can find the draft on the Pentagon's website. It is unclassified.

If the fact that it is unclassified combined with wording that says that "enemies" must be made to believe that the U.S. will do something so extreme and horrendous for the deterrent factor, then doesn't that say something about bluffing and doesn't it seem to imply an underlying weakness and ineffectuality? If they mean it and it is 'real', then there are no words for what it means.

Result number: 122

Message Number 182668

Re: The Tale of Two Paramedics In NOLA Attending a conference. View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/11/05 at 15:32

The current link is dead but I saved the story. Two follow up links at the bottome. I wonder if they have any job openings in the sheriff's dept on the other side of Gretna. I think I know someone who'd fit right in.

Hurricane Katrina-Our Experiences
Hurricane Katrina-Our Experiences

Larry Bradshaw
Lorrie Beth Slonsky

Two days after Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans, the Walgreen's store at
the corner of Royal and Iberville streets remained locked. The dairy display
case was clearly visible through the widows. It was now 48 hours without
electricity, running water, plumbing. The milk, yogurt, and cheeses were beginning
to spoil in the 90-degree heat. The owners and managers had locked up the
food, water, pampers, and prescriptions and fled the City. Outside Walgreen's
windows, residents and tourists grew increasingly thirsty and hungry.

The much-promised federal, state and local aid never materialized and the
windows at Walgreen's gave way to the looters. There was an alternative. The
cops could have broken one small window and distributed the nuts, fruit juices,
and bottle water in an organized and systematic manner. But they did not.
Instead they spent hours playing cat and mouse, temporarily chasing away the
looters.

We were finally airlifted out of New Orleans two days ago and arrived home
yesterday (Saturday). We have yet to see any of the TV coverage or look at a
newspaper. We are willing to guess that there were no video images or
front-page pictures of European or affluent white tourists looting the Walgreen's in
the French Quarter.

We also suspect the media will have been inundated with "hero" images of the
National Guard, the troops and the police struggling to help the "victims" of
the Hurricane. What you will not see, but what we witnessed,were the real
heroes and sheroes of the hurricane relief effort: the working class of New
Orleans. The maintenance workers who used a fork lift to carry the sick and
disabled. The engineers, who rigged, nurtured and kept the generators running. The
electricians who improvised thick extension cords stretching over blocks to
share the little electricity we had in order to free cars stuck on rooftop
parking lots. Nurses who took over for mechanical ventilators and spent many
hours on end manually forcing air into the lungs of unconscious patients to keep
them alive. Doormen who rescued folks stuck in elevators. Refinery workers
who broke into boat yards, "stealing" boats to rescue their neighbors clinging
to their roofs in flood waters. Mechanics who helped hot-wire any car that
could be found to ferry people out of the City. And the food service workers who
scoured the commercial kitchens improvising communal meals for hundreds of
those stranded.

Most of these workers had lost their homes, and had not heard from members of
their families, yet they stayed and provided the only infrastructure for the
20% of New Orleans that was not under water.

On Day 2, there were approximately 500 of us left in the hotels in the French
Quarter. We were a mix of foreign tourists, conference attendees like
ourselves, and locals who had checked into hotels for safety and shelter from
Katrina. Some of us had cell phone contact with family and friends outside of New
Orleans. We were repeatedly told that all sorts of resources including the
National Guard and scores of buses were pouring in to the City. The buses and the
other resources must have been invisible because none of us had seen them.

We decided we had to save ourselves. So we pooled our money and came up with
$25,000 to have ten buses come and take us out of the City. Those who did
not have the requisite $45.00 for a ticket were subsidized by those who did have
extra money. We waited for 48 hours for the buses, spending the last 12
hours standing outside, sharing the limited water, food, and clothes we had. We
created a priority boarding area for the sick, elderly and new born babies. We
waited late into the night for the "imminent" arrival of the buses. The
buses never arrived. We later learned that the minute the arrived to the City
limits, they were commandeered by the military.

By day 4 our hotels had run out of fuel and water. Sanitation was
dangerously abysmal. As the desperation and despair increased, street crime as well as
water levels began to rise. The hotels turned us out and locked their doors,
telling us that the "officials" told us to report to the convention center to
wait for more buses. As we entered the center of the City, we finally
encountered the National Guard.

The Guards told us we would not be allowed into the Superdome as the City's
primary shelter had been descended into a humanitarian and health hellhole.
The guards further told us that the City's only other shelter, the Convention
Center, was also descending into chaos and squalor and that the police were not
allowing anyone else in. Quite naturally, we asked, "If we can't go to the
only 2 shelters in the City, what was our alternative?" The guards told us that
that was our problem, and no they did not have extra water to give to us. This
would be the start of our numerous encounters with callous and hostile "law
enforcement".

We walked to the police command center at Harrah's on Canal Street and were
told the same thing, that we were on our own, and no they did not have water to
give us. We now numbered several hundred. We held a mass meeting to decide a
course of action. We agreed to camp outside the police command post. We
would be plainly visible to the media and would constitute a highly visible
embarrassment to the City officials. The police told us that we could not stay.
Regardless, we began to settle in and set up camp. In short order, the police
commander came across the street to address our group. He told us he had a
solution: we should walk to the Pontchartrain Expressway and cross the greater
New Orleans Bridge where the police had buses lined up to take us out of the
City. The crowed cheered and began to move. We called everyone back and
explained to the commander that there had been lots of misinformation and wrong
information and was he sure that there were buses waiting for us. The commander
turned to the crowd and stated emphatically, "I swear to you that the buses are
there."

We organized ourselves and the 200 of us set off for the bridge with great
excitement and hope. As we marched pasted the convention center, many locals
saw our determined and optimistic group and asked where we were headed. We told
them about the great news. Families immediately grabbed their few belongings
and quickly our numbers doubled and then doubled again. Babies in strollers
now joined us, people using crutches, elderly clasping walkers and others
people in wheelchairs. We marched the 2-3 miles to the freeway and up the steep
incline to the Bridge. It now began to pour down rain, but it did not dampen
our enthusiasm.

As we approached the bridge, armed Gretna sheriffs formed a line across the
foot of the bridge. Before we were close enough to speak, they began firing
their weapons over our heads. This sent the crowd fleeing in various
directions. As the crowd scattered and dissipated, a few of us inched forward and
managed to engage some of the sheriffs in conversation. We told them of our
conversation with the police commander and of the commander's assurances. The
sheriffs informed us there were no buses waiting. The commander had lied to us to
get us to move.

We questioned why we couldn't cross the bridge anyway, especially as there
was little traffic on the 6-lane highway. They responded that the West Bank was
not going to become New Orleans and there would be no Superdomes in their
City. These were code words for if you are poor and black, you are not crossing
the Mississippi River and you were not getting out of New Orleans.

Our small group retreated back down Highway 90 to seek shelter from the rain
under an overpass. We debated our options and in the end decided to build an
encampment in the middle of the Ponchartrain Expressway on the center divide,
between the O'Keefe and Tchoupitoulas exits. We reasoned we would be visible
to everyone, we would have some security being on an elevated freeway and we
could wait and watch for the arrival of the yet to be seen buses.

All day long, we saw other families, individuals and groups make the same
trip up the incline in an attempt to cross the bridge, only to be turned away.
Some chased away with gunfire, others simply told no, others to be verbally
berated and humiliated. Thousands of New Orleaners were prevented and prohibited
from self-evacuating the City on foot. Meanwhile, the only two City shelters
sank further into squalor and disrepair. The only way across the bridge was
by vehicle. We saw workers stealing trucks, buses, moving vans, semi-trucks
and any car that could be hotwired. All were packed with people trying to
escape the misery New Orleans had become.

Our little encampment began to blossom. Someone stole a water delivery truck
and brought it up to us. Let's hear it for looting! A mile or so down the
freeway, an army truck lost a couple of pallets of C-rations on a tight turn.
We ferried the food back to our camp in shopping carts. Now secure with the
two necessities, food and water; cooperation, community, and creativity
flowered. We organized a clean up and hung garbage bags from the rebar poles. We
made beds from wood pallets and cardboard. We designated a storm drain as the
bathroom and the kids built an elaborate enclosure for privacy out of plastic,
broken umbrellas, and other scraps. We even organized a food recycling system
where individuals could swap out parts of C-rations (applesauce for babies and
candies for kids!).

This was a process we saw repeatedly in the aftermath of Katrina. When
individuals had to fight to find food or water, it meant looking out for yourself
only. You had to do whatever it took to find water for your kids or food for
your parents. When these basic needs were met, people began to look out for
each other, working together and constructing a community.

If the relief organizations had saturated the City with food and water in the
first 2 or 3 days, the desperation, the frustration and the ugliness would
not have set in.

Flush with the necessities, we offered food and water to passing families and
individuals. Many decided to stay and join us. Our encampment grew to 80 or
90 people.

From a woman with a battery powered radio we learned that the media was
talking about us. Up in full view on the freeway, every relief and news
organizations saw us on their way into the City. Officials were being asked what they
were going to do about all those families living up on the freeway? The
officials responded they were going to take care of us. Some of us got a sinking
feeling. "Taking care of us" had an ominous tone to it.

Unfortunately, our sinking feeling (along with the sinking City) was correct.
Just as dusk set in, a Gretna Sheriff showed up, jumped out of his patrol
vehicle, aimed his gun at our faces, screaming, "Get off the fucking freeway".
A helicopter arrived and used the wind from its blades to blow away our flimsy
structures. As we retreated, the sheriff loaded up his truck with our food
and water.

Once again, at gunpoint, we were forced off the freeway. All the law
enforcement agencies appeared threatened when we congregated or congealed into groups
of 20 or more. In every congregation of "victims" they saw "mob" or "riot".
We felt safety in numbers. Our "we must stay together" was impossible because
the agencies would force us into small atomized groups.

In the pandemonium of having our camp raided and destroyed, we scattered once
again. Reduced to a small group of 8 people, in the dark, we sought refuge
in an abandoned school bus, under the freeway on Cilo Street. We were hiding
from possible criminal elements but equally and definitely, we were hiding from
the police and sheriffs with their martial law, curfew and shoot-to-kill
policies.

The next days, our group of 8 walked most of the day, made contact with New
Orleans Fire Department and were eventually airlifted out by an urban search
and rescue team. We were dropped off near the airport and managed to catch a
ride with the National Guard. The two young guardsmen apologized for the
limited response of the Louisiana guards. They explained that a large section of
their unit was in Iraq and that meant they were shorthanded and were unable to
complete all the tasks they were assigned.

We arrived at the airport on the day a massive airlift had begun. The
airport had become another Superdome. We 8 were caught in a press of humanity as
flights were delayed for several hours while George Bush landed briefly at the
airport for a photo op. After being evacuated on a coast guard cargo plane, we
arrived in San Antonio, Texas.

There the humiliation and dehumanization of the official relief effort
continued. We were placed on buses and driven to a large field where we were forced
to sit for hours and hours. Some of the buses did not have air-conditioners.
In the dark, hundreds if us were forced to share two filthy overflowing
porta-potties. Those who managed to make it out with any possessions (often a few
belongings in tattered plastic bags) we were subjected to two different
dog-sniffing searches.

Most of us had not eaten all day because our C-rations had been confiscated
at the airport because the rations set off the metal detectors. Yet, no food
had been provided to the men, women, children, elderly, disabled as they sat
for hours waiting to be "medically screened" to make sure we were not carrying
any communicable diseases.

This official treatment was in sharp contrast to the warm, heart-felt
reception given to us by the ordinary Texans. We saw one airline worker give her
shoes to someone who was barefoot. Strangers on the street offered us money and
toiletries with words of welcome.

Throughout, the official relief effort was callous, inept, and racist. There
was more suffering than need be. Lives were lost that did not need to be
lost.





http://www.emsnetwork.org/artman/publish/article_18443.shtml

http://www.cadenhead.org/workbench/news/2748

Result number: 123

Message Number 182646

The Virtue of Happiness View Thread
Posted by Ed Davis, DPM on 9/11/05 at 11:35





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Subject: The Virtue of Hapiness
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OEDIPUS AND KATRINA
The Virtue of Happiness
By Dr. Joel Wade
Friday, September 9, 2005

I wasn’t quite sure how to put this. With such a devastating tragedy as
we’re seeing in the wake of hurricane Katrina, there is a psychological
tragedy that may bode ill for some of those involved for a long time. What
is difficult about what I am about to say is that it could be taken as
heartless criticism of people who are truly victims of terrible events.

All I can say is that this is not about casting blame or criticism. I am
observing a phenomenon that has consequences, and I think that it’s best
to identify what is happening, and learn from it. To the extent that each
of us can, there are clear choices that can be made.

Here is the truth of the psychological aftermath of hurricane Katrina:

We know that people who are able to take action in the face of threatening
or difficult circumstances fare better than those who are not.

Our pride in seeing those who heroically face and overcome overwhelming
events is a natural feeling, because we are seeing people doing the right
thing, taking the effective action that is most likely to lead to a better
life.

The natural pity and disappointment that many people feel toward passivity
is not some callous judgment, it is a natural feeling that reflects seeing
an ineffective approach to life’s difficulties.

We can be compassionate, understanding, heartfelt, and genuinely saddened
and mobilized to help, while still experiencing these different feelings.

Awful things happen in the world. I mean really awful things. Things that
I hope and pray never happen to me or my family or friends or any of you
or anybody for that matter – who does not prey on the innocent.

But life can be tragic. There are things that we can do to improve our
odds, to increase our ability to cope, and to enhance our capacity for joy
and love and good things in life, and there are things that we cannot do
anything about.

Like the weather.

The Ancient Greeks had a sense of the tragic, and understood well that
there are things that happen whether they should or not. Oedipus did not
intend to kill his own Father and marry his own Mother, yet that is what
he did. And though he did not intend it, did not know it, and would have
avoided it had he known, yet he was required to suffer for the wrongs that
he committed.

Oedipus was not a bad man getting his due; he had survived being cast off
as a baby, had fought off an attack by a rude traveler (his Father), had
saved Thebes from a plague through his wits in answering the question of
the Sphinx, and had become king (and his Mother’s husband) as a hero. When
he discovered what he had done, he gouged his own eyes out, and set off to
wander blind and alone in his misery.

The story of Oedipus is not the famous Freudian story of intentional
perversion; it is a story about how tragedy works.

Our modern therapeutic view would shield Oedipus from this fate. Our
modern therapeutic view looks first and foremost at how things should be.
There is some good to this, as the idealism of this view moves us closer
toward what is fair and just.

But the idealism of this view also strongly moves us away from seeing what
is true about the world, in the service of seeing what we would like to
see – one of the central themes of human tragedy. This is a major obstacle
to taking the kind of action that can actually save lives and help people.

There are many, many people in this present disaster who are doing exactly
what needs to be done – getting themselves out of town, helping their
families and neighbors, helping strangers whom they are able to help.
These are the people who will come through this stronger. Shaken,
saddened, hurt, but more resilient for having done what they could.

There are some who were passive. They waited to be helped; they took
little or no action on their own to save themselves or to help others.
Some of these people may not have been able to take any action, out of
infirmity or illness. Some of them had learned early on that they are
supposed to be taken care of by the government, or somebody else, and so
they waited. Some just froze with fear or were too overwhelmed to act.

These people will not do so well. None of them deserved to suffer the fate
they have suffered, but like Oedipus, they suffer anyway. This is not a
moral judgment; it is simply a cause and effect relationship between
behavior and outcome. It is not fair, since there are those who are born
with temperaments that do not favor physical courage, activity, and
optimism - and have not learned how to strengthen these qualities in
themselves - for whom a more effective stance may be much more difficult.

Then there are the monsters - the ones shooting at relief workers, raping
and robbing people. They deserve not a further thought, beyond a swift and
certain removal from society.

There are those who are interfering with morale and relief efforts in the
service of scoring political points, covering their own mistakes or
incompetence, or furthering their therapeutic vision of how things should
have been. There are those who make their living convincing some that they
are passive victims, and others that they are victimizing the passive
through their effective action.

And there are those who persevere in doing the hard and heartbreaking work
of rescuing, caring for, recovering, and burying the victims of this
tragedy.

These are, and have ever been, the players on the human stage. There are,
and have ever been, the expressions of greed, envy, malevolent ambition,
power lust, cowardice, blame, and hate. There also are, and have ever
been, the expressions of courage, compassion, loyalty, bravery, caring,
friendship, commitment, love, and heroism.

What each of us can do in this world is to see the play of humanity as it
is, and for each of us, as conscious individuals, to choose to the best of
our ability the actions that will follow a more virtuous course – not
perfectly, but purposefully. You know what actions those are, those for
which you feel proud, gratified, loved, loving, engaged, productive,
useful, and courageous.

“Virtue is its own reward”, as Emerson wrote; but a core aspect of a happy
life is choosing virtuous actions, and making of these a habit. The beauty
and magnificence of humanity is that some substantial portion of us has
always chosen thus.

Result number: 124

Message Number 182635

The Titanic of our Era View Thread
Posted by Julie on 9/11/05 at 08:38


The Titanic Of Our Era

Bill Fletcher, Jr.

September 09, 2005

Bill Fletcher, Jr. is the President of TransAfrica Forum, a Washington, DC-based non-profit organizing and education center formed to raise awareness in the USA regarding issues facing the nations and peoples of Africa, the Caribbean and Latin America.  He can be reached at bfletcher@transafricaforum.org . 

The complete failure of the Bush administration —and to a lesser extent state and local authorities on the Gulf Coast— to respond to the devastation of Hurricane Katrina has raised questions about the motives at play.  The fact that the lives of hundreds of thousands of poor and black people were thrown up for grabs and that the Bush administration could not mobilize any significant response for five days has led many people to assume that this was an act of planned genocide.  How else, one may wonder, could such a thing have been allowed to happen?
 
There is another way to think about the disaster: the steerage on the Titanic. To refresh your memory, that was the section of the ship that provided the cheapest accommodations and where the poorest were housed.  It was also the lowest part of the ship, the least safe and the site of overwhelming death.  One may remember, as portrayed in the film Titanic , that the passengers in steerage were literally locked in, trapped like rats such that they could not escape the rising water.
 
Does this somehow sound familiar?
 
Did the builders of the Titanic design it in such a way that they aimed to kill the occupants of steerage? Not at all.  They did, however, design it so that if anyone was going to die, it would be those in steerage. Their deaths were acceptable for the builders of the Titanic. After all, those in steerage were considered a less-relevant population than the rich on the upper decks.
 
The capitalism of the contemporary era shares many of the same values informing the builders of the Titanic; the poor are not the responsibility of society at large. The construction of the Titanic was not simply a technological matter.  There was a decision that the poor could be sacrificed in order that the rich survive.  That is the essence of capitalism in general, but particularly neo-liberal capitalism—the capitalism of this era.  There need not have been an intent to wipe out thousands of poor and black people in the Gulf.  The assumptions about how money would be spent, what was necessary, etc., meant that in the face of disaster, the poor and the black would be sacrificed, and the rich would have their SUVs [read:  life boats]

For decades, this nation’s economic policies have created a widening gap in personal wealth, making it impossible for many Americans to achieve economic security no matter how hard they work. The (largely unionized) jobs that provided opportunities for workers to climb out of poverty have been disappearing.  In their place are low-wage service jobs, part-time employment or nothing at all.  This is what makes comments such as those  offered recently by conservative critic Linda Chavez , so outrageous and insulting.  Instead of finding the sources of Gulf Coast poverty in an  economic system that casts off hundreds of thousands of people, Chavez and her allies place the blame on so-called family values.  Chavez never grapples with the question of how to keep families together when their worlds collide with the shockwaves of the modern economy.
 
Through directing tax cuts to serve the rich and powerful; through the allocation of billions of dollars to pursue an illegal war and occupation of Iraq; through urban relocation programs that destroy entire communities, the steerage compartments of the good ship ‘Gulf Coast’ were created.  All that was needed to create total devastation was a collision with an iceberg.
 
The infrastructure of New Orleans had been collapsing for years. Various scenarios within the last five years indicated the catastrophe that could unfold if a Category 5 storm hit New Orleans. There was recognition, now openly being admitted, that tens of thousands of the poor of that city might be left stranded in the face of a major hurricane while the rich could climb into their SUVs and escape.
 
There simply were not enough lifeboats, because those in steerage where just not that relevant.
 
After years of attacking the public sector and the rationale for essential government programs and taxes, the conservative right has reaped the results. They calculated that they could get by without investing the necessary resources into repairing the growing inequality in America. They calculated that they could ignore the plight of the Gulf Coast’s poor.  Each hurricane that missed the Gulf Coast was another source of relief and a confirmation that it was better to put resources into wars and tax cuts than into saving the lives of those at the bottom.
 
So, it did not have to be a conspiracy, because, in fact, the game of U.S. capitalism has been rigged from the beginning.  We just happened to see the results in bloated bodies, crying and ill children, the devastation of a beautiful coastline, and the possibly permanent displacement of hundreds of thousands of people.
.

Result number: 125

Message Number 182577

FEMA made my PF worse View Thread
Posted by Buck T. on 9/10/05 at 10:40

Hi. Live between San Antonio and Austim. Board member of only homeless shelter between two cities. Our shelter taking care of displaced families plus normal load of "welfare people." I personally thought we were all Americans and didn't realize we were broken into categories like welfare people. But am rambling.

The day before Katrina hit, I sprained fascia on one foot severely doing yard work. Intended to stay off feet and on crutches. But shelter called and needed me to take families to Austin for FEMA vouchers. Stood on hard concrete for 10 hours. Three hours in wrong line. We received nothing and were given a phone number to call. Couldn't get through. Came back and saw on news an e-mail address. Got through on that. Was told "packet of information" would be sent in 7 days. Lesson learned, if you deal with FEMA while having pf flare-up take plenty of Darvon.

One of the "welfare people" I helped is construction worker and combat Army veteran. He's white, paid taxes all his life, and now has nothing -- except a packet of FEMA information coming in 7 days. Sincerely, Buck T.

Result number: 126

Message Number 182559

comments that somehow disappeared View Thread
Posted by vince on 9/10/05 at 07:49

Unfortunatly, spreading out the population of NOLA to other communities may be, in many cases, like having thousands of typhoid marys sent into healthy communities. These people didn't do anything with the charity and handouts they were given in NOLA- what is the pssibility they will be a contributing addition to any other community. Zero to no possibility at all!! More charity won't make them productive members of society- they already proved that. What will happen is that if there is the opportunity they will simply have a more affluent area to loot and vandalize.

Just watched soldiers going into buildings in NOLA to help residents evacuate and they had to approach it like they were in a war- weapons at the ready. What kind of low life scum populated that city? Talk about dogs biting the hand that feeds them. I would let them die where they hide and then buldoze the bodies along with the debris and garbage.
Time to stop the handouts and if you can't stand on your own 2 feet then to bad- The behavior of the "people" in NOLA is a perfect exmple that if you give someone the means to avoid supporting themselves they will.

I'm wondering how to offer some displaced NOLA person(s) a place to live with me. They now have debit cards, big screen tv's, lots of new sneakers, cases of beer and liquor, piles of stolen clothes,and lots of stolen drugs and guns.
I can't afford to buy all that stuff because I have been paying big taxes to support entitlement programs so that they can live like sloths, father children they don't support, and buy drugs and alcohol with their welfare checks.

Give nothing to anybody- Bush will see too it that we all give plenty. $700,000,000 in debit cards for a starter- best way to pay for the damage from Katrina is tax the oil co's on excess profits and mandate that they cannot pass it along. I think 40 billion in profit for the last quarter is excessive as is a salary of $31 million for the CEO of Exxon. I was always a strong advocate of leave business alone but the oil co thieves are changing my mind.

Would anybody like to harbor a guess who did the vast majority of looting when the blackout hit in NYC in the late 60's. How about those who were the vast majority of riotors in Watts and destoyed it? I'll give you a hint--They did not have an ancestory that came to this country from Ireland, Italy, Germany, the Scandinavian counties, Eastern Europe, Asia, Russia, Poland and the Baltics etc. They came from an area that anthropologist credit with the begining of humans. It appears that they ar trying to prove that Darwin was wrong.
I lived in NYC during that riot- I guarded a family business( the business employed about 30 workers, 22 of who were of the ethnicity who were the vast majority of riotors and all lived within 5 miles of the business) with several relatives armed to the teeth and we did discharge those weapons and it did save the bussines and the ones very nearby, but the area surrounding us was destroyed. If I have any racial predujices(sic) than it is only because it has been forced upon me by a those who hate me soley because I am a white male with an ancestory from Eastern Europe. I stood my gound that night listening to them shout "kill whitey" but the sight and sound of those 12 guage shotguns fortunatly were enough of a deterant. As I said before- I don't hate anybody- I just can't tell the safe snakes from the venomous ones so I am cautious around all snakes. When the papers publish repeated pictures of criminals who just mugged a women in a parking lot or a dark street and who's pants are around their butt and a hooded shirt over their head, then I am cautious when I see one of them. Do I and and my wife cross the street to avoid them- yes I do and am I prepared to defend myself and family with deadly force if needed- yes I am. Maybe they just a group who is mimicking some gangsta rapper and are church going college students just having fun- maybe- but how do I know. I can't tell the poisonous snakes fom the safe ones.

have to strongly disagree with you- there is never an excuse to take, without permission, anybody's property. Let us see how many of thos "desperate" people contact the etablishment they looted allegedly for what they claimed were "essentials" and offer to pay for them in some manner. I predict the number will be somehere between 0 and NONE.
My role in society is to provide for my family and in doing so I do not have the right to do that at the expense of another. The store owner who was looted for his water, milk and bread was unjustly deprived of those items and prevented from taking care of his family. Life is not perfect and it's sometimes tough and sometimes it kills people. That is why we must make the very best of each of our days.

Result number: 127

Message Number 182520

Re: FEMA fake director View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/09/05 at 19:54

He's been relieved of duty in the Katrina Belt.

Hopefully he'll be gone for good asap.

Result number: 128

Message Number 182496

Nope I'm Serious.....Plus the story of 'Smudge' the Kitten View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/09/05 at 16:56

The Veterens For Peace along with most of Camp Casey are in Covington, LA. They have launched a massive relief effort in conjunction with the Red Cross. The Red Cross has been thrilled to have them there. I thought ya'll knew that. Sorry. That's who I've been communicating with and getting info to displaced people for. The effort continues. These guys are kick butt.......and tough as nails.

I know where Cindy Sheehan and Anne Wright are, that wasn't what I was referring too.

I am still looking for information on the hands on effort made by the counter protesters in Crawford. Surely there are some......absolutely no sarcasim involved with this request. I made an effort to interview and present reasonable and positive stories on the counter-protesters. Don't buy into all the media crap. The first weekend of Camp Casey the fringe elements on both sides where no where around. Counter Protesters began to sing God Bless America and the pro peace protesters joined them. It was a moving experience for everyone there and the foundation of what happened the night before they all left. A memorial service was held at Camp Casey those original counter protesters came over and joined the candlelit service of prayers for those who laid down their lives for this war. They all left with a deeply found new appreciation for each side. There are some wonderful people on the other side of the political spectrum and I'd like to make sure they are thanked and appreciated. The Veterens For Peace made the decision early on to break away from the VFP bus trip and head to LA. Cindy's attornies are from NOLA. They had hastily went to Crawford at the request of the local Texas Sheriff's department who absolutely fell in love with the peace protesters. The sheriff's department was concerned about the possibility of violence towards the peace protesters and wanted Buddy and Annie there. Aside from that Buddy knew who the Stormfront people are.......who somehow have attached themselves to Cindy's cause. We want nothing to do with them. The sheriff needed id photos to make sure they didn't get near the camp. The sheriff picked them up at the airport. What Buddy and Annie didn't realize is that katrina would turn into a Category 5 tornado. having left their 7 daughter with family friends they had no idea where she was and if she had been evacuated. Grandma lives in Bogalusa and the concern was that she was there. The last message I got was that the storm was whipping the trees around like crazy there and then the power went out. After days of searching someone was finally able to locate her with the help of another friend, Am. Indian marine veteren who hiked by foot into the area and found that they had made it safely to the northern part of Misssippi. The next search was for their kitten 'Smudge' who was left at the vet. Smudge went to Camp Casey on the first weekend and while Cindy was doing an interview with Air America Smudge was heard howling in the background. 'Smudge' has become a cult hero. I wrote stories about the Kitten who protested with Cindy..........and it was picked up around the world. Even folks in the UK love Smudge. Smudge is safe. Should have pics soon. Currently an artist is auctioning a painting of Smudge on ebay to help raise funds for the Vets efforts.



http://cgi.ebay.com/Smudge-The-Camp-Casey-Kitten-Charity-Auction_W0QQitemZ7349289626QQcategoryZ20158QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



Smudge thought protesting was hard work!

Result number: 129

Message Number 182481

On FEMA View Thread
Posted by Dorothy on 9/09/05 at 14:09

This is from CNN's website. They are also reporting that Brown has been "recalled" to Washington, D.C. And also that Laura Bush is out defending her husband against criticism. Laura, Barbara, and daddy, all the royals telling us what to think about the prince.

FEMA director's qualifications questioned

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Top U.S. disaster official Michael Brown, under fire over the federal response to Hurricane Katrina, cited prior emergency-management experience in an official biography but his duties were "more like an intern," Time magazine reported.

Brown's biography on the Federal Emergency Management Agency Web site says he had once served as an "assistant city manager with emergency services oversight," and a White House news release in 2001 said Brown had worked for the city of Edmond, Oklahoma in the 1970s "overseeing the emergency-services division."

However, a city spokeswoman told the magazine Brown had actually worked as "an assistant to the city manager."

"The assistant is more like an intern," Claudia Deakins told the magazine. "Department heads did not report to him." Time posted the article on its Web site late on Thursday.

Brown, a lawyer, was appointed as FEMA's general counsel in 2001 and became head of the agency in 2003. The work in Edmond is the only previous disaster-related experience cited in the biographies. Brown served as commissioner of the International Arabian Horse Association before taking the FEMA job.

Sen. Joseph Lieberman, D-Connecticut, had cited Brown's Edmond experience as "particularly useful" for FEMA during a hearing in 2002.

Critics, including some Republicans, have blasted Brown for delays and missteps in the federal government's response to Katrina's deadly and devastating assault on New Orleans and the U.S. Gulf Coast last week. Some have demanded his ouster.

Bush last week gave Brown a word of support, saying "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."

This week, Bush put the U.S. Coast Guard's chief of staff in charge of the federal recovery effort in New Orleans and gave Vice President Dick Cheney the job of cutting through bureaucratic delays.

Post: Top FEMA officials lack experience
The Washington Post reported on Friday that five of eight top FEMA officials had come to their jobs with virtually no experience in handling disasters. The agency's top three leaders, including Brown, had ties to Bush's 2000 presidential campaign or the White House advance operation.

Former Edmond city manager Bill Dashner recalled for Time that Brown had worked for him as an administrative assistant while attending Central State University.

"Mike used to handle a lot of details. Every now and again I'd ask him to write me a speech. He was very loyal. He was always on time. He always had on a suit and a starched white shirt," Dashner told Time.

Edmond's population is about 70,000.

In response to the Time report, FEMA issued a statement that took issue with elements related to an unofficial biography, and described his job in Edmond as "assistant to the city manager."

Brown "remains focused on helping Americans through the worst natural disaster in history," FEMA said.

Result number: 130

Message Number 182480

Re: Chevy to the Levee once again View Thread
Posted by Dorothy on 9/09/05 at 14:00

John H - You wrote to Marie, but if I may interject for a moment -
Your second paragraph, "Today I was reading editorials from major newspapers around the world.....America is really being rocked....We are still the nation that saved.... and helped....." - that is the paragraph and sentiment that I wanted to say something about.

The international (and our own internal, for that matter) reaction may be so vehement exactly because of our history. No one expects much of places or people known to be dangerous or corrupt. I mean, really, are you ever really surprised when Haiti or Nigeria demonstrates reprehensible behavior? It is when the person or place that we held in high esteem does not live up to our expectations that we react strongly. America represents a lot of good things to many people - including her own people - and when she handles things not the way "America" does but the way any other tinhorn, corrupt, incompetent, ignorant backwater with despots at the top filling their own pockets - then people's hopes, dreams and ideals are bruised, if not dashed - and that makes us angry and afraid. If "America" can't or won't "do it right", then we are doomed.

It is why so many of us (of all political persuasions) were so angry with Clinton: he soiled us. And he also waved his Bible at us. It is why so many of us (of all political persuasions) are so angry with Bush & Co.: they have done terrible harm to us. And they are all waving their Bibles at us. These leaders are given our greatest gift: our trust and hope. When they dump on those, we get angry. When they dump on us and say "we're not dumping on you", the lies make us even angrier. When we start to have trouble breathing from the pile they've dumped on us, we get even angrier.

What do you mean "must continue to remain strong"? There are many, many ways to be strong. It seems to me we are weakened in far too many ways with too few great minds willing to tackle the problems.

We used to be a country of engineers, inventors, industry, labor, progress, initiative, independent spirit, fix what's wrong..... How would you describe us now? If you didn't have various media telling you what to think, how would you describe us now? It's a rhetorical question because I have no right to challenge you with a question that I find too difficult to answer myself. Do you think this is the same country that saw men - and women - volunteering to die, if need be, or to be away from loved ones at very least, for YEARS (not one week), to fight in WWII??
My mother always said that "today's people" - this was in the 1960s - 1980s say - could not have survived the Depression; do you think that's true? I mean, consider this Katrina disaster - the reactions......

Result number: 131

Message Number 182469

National Geographic View Thread
Posted by John H on 9/09/05 at 11:07

This is an apolitical article by a reporter for the National Geographic. It is not a finger pointing article but just discusses the levee system in NOLA. It is informative and worth a read. Only two pages long:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/09/0902_050902_katrina_levees.html

Result number: 132

Message Number 182465

To Vince See if you can get on. View Thread
Posted by Ralph on 9/09/05 at 10:29

If you play an instrument you could be the lone ranger on this staged event. I won't spend a minute watching it. Already seen enough blasting
and finger pointing on the nightly news, in the papers, and here.


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Katrina Benefit Telethon Won't Be Censored By DAVID BAUDER, AP Television Writer
1 hour, 33 minutes ago



NEW YORK - The producer of Friday's one-hour telethon to benefit Hurricane Katrina victims said no special precautions will be taken to edit out political statements — even though rapper Kanye West is on the bill.

ADVERTISEMENT

But Joel Gallen, executive producer of "Shelter From the Storm: A Concert for the Gulf Coast," also doesn't expect any problems.

West, on last week's hurricane relief concert shown on NBC, departed from a prepared script to say that " George Bush doesn't care about black people." He's one of a dozen musicians scheduled to perform Friday.

Only a standard five- or seven-second delay will be employed to guard against any obscenities, Gallen said. He said he's spoken to all of the musicians and actors who will be appearing on the show about not detracting from the mission.

"I think people understand that politicizing this will certainly not be a smart thing to do as far as inspiring people to call in and rally around this cause," he said.

Sheryl Crow, the Dixie Chicks, Alicia Keys, Randy Newman, Paul Simon, Rod Stewart and Neil Young are among the other scheduled performers. Jennifer Aniston, Cameron Diaz, Ellen DeGeneres, Jack Nicholson, Chris Rock, Ray Romano and Sela Ward are also scheduled to appear.

The six main broadcast networks — ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, UPN and the WB — will all air the event live at 8 p.m. Eastern. Several cable stations including Bravo, Oxygen, TBS and USA have also cleared time for the commercial-free event.

Viewers will be asked to contribute to the American Red Cross or the Salvation Army.

The benefit concert will also be shown in at least 95 countries.

Result number: 133

Message Number 182463

Money lost View Thread
Posted by Ralph on 9/09/05 at 09:58

With money coming in all directions how much do you expect that recipients will not recieve. Money that will somehow disappear from it's intended use and no one knows where. Poor accounting.

It never fails to happen. With so many pots and so many hands who's pockets will be filled???

It will be interesting to see how much money gets to the proper destinations.

I think what worries me most is the money President Clinton and Former President Bush want to throw into the hands of local goverment in each state hit by Katrina.

Result number: 134

Message Number 182435

Global warming means the future will be full of just this kind of horror. View Thread
Posted by Julie on 9/09/05 at 01:40


Not Our America?

Bill McKibben

September 07, 2005

Bill McKibben is the author of many books on the environment and related topics. His first, The End of Nature , was also the first book for a general audience on global warming. His most recent is Wandering Home, A Long Walk Across America's Most Hopeful Landscape . This article originally appeared on  TomDispatch.com  and is reprinted with permission.    

If the images of skyscrapers collapsed in heaps of ash were the end of one story—the United States safe on its isolated continent from the turmoil of the world—then the picture of the sodden Superdome with its peeling roof marks the beginning of the next story, the one that will dominate our politics in the coming decades of this century: America befuddled about how to cope with a planet suddenly turned unstable and unpredictable.

Over and over last week, people said that the scenes from the convention center, the highway overpasses, and the other suddenly infamous Crescent City venues didn't "look like America," that they seemed instead to be straight from the Third World. That was almost literally accurate, for poor, black New Orleans (whose life had never previously been of any interest to the larger public) is not so different from other poor and black parts of the world: its infant mortality and life expectancy rates, its educational achievement statistics mirroring scores of African and Latin American enclaves.

But it was accurate in another way, too, one full of portent for the future. A decade ago, environmental researcher Norman Myers began trying to add up the number of humans at risk of losing their homes from global warming. He looked at all the obvious places—coastal China, India, Bangladesh, the tiny island states of the Pacific and Indian oceans, the Nile delta, Mozambique, on and on—and predicted that by 2050, it was entirely possible that 150 million people could be "environmental refugees," forced from their homes by rising waters. That's more than the number of political refugees sent scurrying by the bloody century we've just endured.

Try to imagine, that is, the chaos that attends busing 15,000 people from one football stadium to another in the richest nation on Earth, and then multiply it by four orders of magnitude and re-situate your thoughts in the poorest nations on earth.

And then try to imagine doing it over and over again—probably without the buses.

Because so far, even as blogs and websites all over the Internet fill with accusations about the scandalous lack of planning that led to the collapse of the levees in New Orleans, almost no one is addressing the much larger problems: the scandalous lack of planning that has kept us from even beginning to address climate change, and the sad fact that global warming means the future will be full of just this kind of horror.

Consider the first problem for just a minute. No single hurricane is "the result" of global warming. But a month before Katrina hit, MIT hurricane specialist Kerry Emmanuel published a landmark paper in the British science magazine Nature showing that tropical storms were now lasting half again as long and spinning winds 50 percent more powerful than just a few decades before. The only plausible cause: the ever-warmer tropical seas on which these storms thrive. Katrina, a Category 1 storm when it crossed Florida, roared to full life in the abnormally hot water of the Gulf of Mexico. It then punched its way into Louisiana and Mississippi—the latter a state now governed by Haley Barbour, who in an earlier incarnation as a GOP power broker and energy lobbyist helped persuade President Bush to renege on his promise to treat carbon dioxide as a pollutant.

So far, the United States has done exactly nothing even to try to slow the progress of climate change: We're emitting far more carbon than we were in 1988, when scientists issued their first prescient global-warming warnings. Even if, at that moment, we'd started doing all that we could to overhaul our energy economy, we'd probably still be stuck with the one degree Fahrenheit increase in global average temperature that's already driving our current disruptions. Now scientists predict that without truly dramatic change in the very near future, we're likely to see the planet's mercury rise five degrees before this century is out. That is, five times more than we've seen so far.

Which leads us to the second problem: For the ten thousand years of human civilization, we've relied on the planet's basic physical stability. Sure, there have been hurricanes and droughts and volcanoes and tsunamis, but averaged out across the Earth, it's been a remarkably stable run. If your grandparents inhabited a particular island, chances were that you could too. If you could grow corn in your field, you could pretty much count on your grandkids being able to do likewise. Those are now sucker's bets—that's what those predictions about environmental refugees really mean.

Here's another way of saying it: In the last century, we've seen change in human societies speed up to an almost unimaginable level, one that has stressed every part of our civilization. In this century, we're going to see the natural world change at the same kind of rate. That's what happens when you increase the amount of heat trapped in the atmosphere. That extra energy expresses itself in every way you can imagine: more wind, more evaporation, more rain, more melt, more... more... more.

And there is no reason to think we can cope. Take New Orleans as an example. It is currently pro forma for politicians to announce that it will be rebuilt, and doubtless it will be. Once. But if hurricanes like Katrina go from once-in-a-century storms to once-in-a-decade-or-two storms, how many times are you going to rebuild it? Even in America there's not that kind of money—especially if you're also having to cope with, say, the effects on agriculture of more frequent and severe heat waves, and the effects on human health of the spread of mosquito-borne diseases like dengue fever and malaria, and so on ad infinitum. Not to mention the costs of converting our energy system to something less suicidal than fossil fuel, a task that becomes more expensive with every year that passes.

Our rulers have insisted by both word and deed that the laws of physics and chemistry do not apply to us. That delusion will now start to vanish. Katrina marks Year One of our new calendar, the start of an age in which the physical world has flipped from sure and secure to volatile and unhinged. New Orleans doesn't look like the America we've lived in. But it very much resembles the planet we will inhabit the rest of our lives.

Result number: 135

Message Number 182434

New Orleans is America’s canary in the mineshaft View Thread
Posted by Julie on 9/09/05 at 01:36


Bush's Second Gulf Disaster

Terry Lynn Karl

September 08, 2005

Terry Lynn Karl is professor of political science at Stanford University.

President Bush has asked that Americans not “play politics” at this moment of terrible national disaster. But asking hard questions of our nation’s leaders is exactly what democracy demands when the government’s response to Hurricane Katrina is widely viewed as “a national disgrace.”

Katrina came with at least two days’ warning, but authorities waited to issue an evacuation order. There was no transportation for people without cars or money; facilities to house and care for refugees were insufficient; there were no forces in place to deliver desperately needed supplies or to secure order; and there was nowhere near the number of boats, helicopters and other craft necessary to rescue the stranded.

Hampered by a National Guard with 40 percent of its people in Iraq, the pace of getting military personnel to the hardest hit areas was inordinately slow. For four days, there was simply no clear center of command and control. As a result, countless people suffered and died.

Much of this failure is the result of the Bush administration’s policies, which effectively eroded the capacities of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), the government agency primarily responsible for dealing with disasters. Obsessed with the war on terror as well as an ideology of privatizing the functions of government, the administration systematically sapped FEMA’s long-term ability to prevent disaster or at least cushion the blows when prevention is not possible.

FEMA was downsized and downgraded from a cabinet position, then placed under the Department of Homeland Security. Its mission of disaster planning and preparation was dropped entirely, and its focus was altered to fight terrorists. Its leadership had no experience in disaster management. The past director was one of Bush’s Texas political cronies, and the current director’s qualifications include a stint as commissioner for judges and stewards with the International Arabian Horse Association, where he was asked to resign for “supervision failures.”

Since 2001, billions of dollars were shifted from disaster relief to homeland security and the war in Iraq. Key disaster mitigation programs were slashed, and federal funding for post-disaster relief was cut in half. The Army Corps of Engineers’ budget for levee construction in New Orleans was gutted, including funds specifically aimed at the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project. Preventive measures to protect people and property were not carried out despite FEMA’s own conclusion in 2001 that a major hurricane hitting New Orleans was one of the three “likeliest, most catastrophic disasters facing this country.”

Believing FEMA to be an “oversized entitlement program” and that the “business of government is not to provide services,” Bush’s first FEMA director instituted new outsourcing requirements as part of a major privatization effort. This provoked a brain drain as experienced FEMA personnel moved into the private sector.

Privatization also left poorer states and poorer communities especially vulnerable. As money dried up and federal programs were contracted out to private firms at higher rates, only the richest and politically most important states and communities could compete successfully for the scarce federal grants necessary to pay for services.

For example, Florida (with 16 more electoral votes than Louisiana and where the president’s brother governs) received its requested funding to protect its wetlands. By contrast, a more needy Louisiana (with its staggering 24 percent poverty rate) was denied its request for flood-mitigation funds in 2004. With Louisiana’s ability to protect itself weakened and the center of disaster relief badly undermined, an inadequate government response and unnecessary destruction were almost inevitable—with the poor paying the price.

But the failure of this administration runs deeper than its chronic and intentional diversion of resources away from the types of policies that keep people safe from disaster. Despite scientific evidence demonstrating that the increased intensity and frequency of hurricanes is related to climate change, the Bush administration systematically rejects participation in international climate-protection regimes. Rather than continue a ban on wetlands development instituted by previous administrations, the Bush administration overturned it. Because development-provoked erosion has brought the Gulf of Mexico 20 miles closer to land than it was in 1965, hurricanes are able to retain more strength, and their winds and waves pack more speed and destructive power.

Similarly, loss of wetlands threatened New Orleans’ levees, which were built on the assumption that they would have 40 to 50 miles of protective swamp as buffer between the city and the Gulf of Mexico. Despite every major study showing that a massive coastal restoration program and higher levees were needed to protect New Orleans, the administration permitted federal agencies to stop protecting 20 million acres of wetlands, allowed developers to drain thousands of acres and in 2004 cut funding for holding back the waters of Lake Pontchartrain by more than 80 percent.

New Orleans is America’s canary in the mineshaft. Ideologies of privatization that incapacitate effective government—permitting the privileged to save themselves while leaving the poor clinging to roofs—must now be challenged. This disaster is a chilling reminder of what happens when government fails to protect its citizens, and it is imperative that Americans demand accountability. Officials who did not do their jobs must be dismissed, and elected officials whose policies aggravated the devastation wrought by Katrina must be removed from office. We owe this to the dead and to the survivors.

Copyright: Project Syndicate, 2005 .

Result number: 136

Message Number 182420

Re: Journey to the New Orleans area View Thread
Posted by Carole C in NOLA on 9/08/05 at 21:17

Bev,

I can see you have a lot of questions! Here are some answers and info about Frank and me:

* Frank is a sixth generation New Orleanian and inherited a house about a mile and a half from mine, in Metairie (a suburb of New Orleans).

* He is a contract engineer. He is working in Alabama right now and rents a trailer there, where we have both been staying since the hurricane.

* Before Katrina, he drove from Alabama to New Orleans on all but two weekends in the last year and a half, to see me and his family. Officially he lives in Louisiana; his car has Louisiana plates, he has a Louisiana driver's license, and so on. But he works in Alabama for the time being.

* We have no problem getting money from our banks, and I access mine online. He can't any more, but they have a branch locally in Alabama.

* He has no problem with pay since he works here in Alabama. So, he is going in to work every day.

* I have no problem with pay (so far) since I work for the federal government and they are still paying me. My agency has given me a verbal assurance only that my pay will continue past the 12th. I saw a news story somewhere that said all federal employees would be paid for the duration, so probably I will be fine.

* I don't think I qualify for any assistance, since I found a free place to stay with Frank, rather than going to a big shelter like the Astrodome and since my house wasn't damaged. However, I have not yet exhausted my savings and my credit is good, so I am not going to be without the basics like food and shelter.

I forgot to tell everyone that when I went back, I GOT MY BIRKENSTOCKS!! I now have my Floridas, Granadas, Fuldas, and Arizonas. Bless your hearts, everyone, for your kind offers to send me some. But now I have my own.

Thanks for caring, Bev!

Carole C

Result number: 137

Message Number 182418

Re: tts and pf in both feet View Thread
Posted by Shari R on 9/08/05 at 20:54

I only had it in one foot and felt exactly like you did. It's been 2 1/2 months now and it's no longer 10X's worse, it just hurts as much as before the surgery. They say it takes months (my dr. said day's), but I guess we're all different. I'm not convinced that it was a wise move up to now, but we'll see. Good Luck........on the bright side I'm not crying anymore.(except over Katrina after effects). I guess time will tell!

Result number: 138

Message Number 182416

Board Conservatives Question??? View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/08/05 at 20:40

In my efforts to be fair i'd like to share the goodwill stories about conservative groups on the ground pitching in and helping out in the states devestated by katrina. I know how my friends are helping but would be interested in the stories from the right........in the trenches.

thanks am looking forward to hearing how America works together.

best wishes marie

Result number: 139

Message Number 182412

Source's to send donations View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/08/05 at 20:07

http://wheretosenddonationsforkatrina.blogspot.com/

Result number: 140

Message Number 182402

Re: I am far from being a John Dean fan but.... View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/08/05 at 19:37

He means Howard.........
Hurricane Housing.org

In the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, you mobilized to make sure that the Red Cross had the financial resources it needed to respond swiftly. The response was literally overwhelming -- so many donations poured in that their web site struggled to process them.

Since then Americans have seen another kind of disaster unfold. The irresponsible lack of attention by our federal government has led directly to the devastation of communities and the loss of American lives.

The federal response over these crucial first days has been totally unacceptable. There will be a time for a full accounting of the preventable part of this disaster, and those responsible will be held accountable. It will be soon.

But there are lives to save right now and our focus must be steady. People need help right now. And you can be a direct participant in the relief efforts by providing housing for a victim of the disaster.

The vast number of evacuees has triggered a cascading crisis -- the first group of evacuation centers in the Gulf States has been overwhelmed, and the surrounding states have seen their capacity exceeded as well.

Hundreds of thousands of survivors are being transported in small groups to cities and towns across the country. A coalition of groups has put together a web site to collect offers of housing and provide a place for victims to search for help. You can offer shelter -- whether for a few days or a few weeks -- by signing up here:

http://www.hurricanehousing.org

To support your volunteer housing operation the following steps have been taken:

* We are briefing Democratic elected officials on the HurricaneHousing.org program and asking that they treat this as the front-line network of volunteers who are ready and waiting to provide shelter in their jurisdiction.
* We have asked outside organizations to direct their members to HurricaneHousing.org to volunteer; those organizations with representatives on the ground have been asked to help victims connect with the housing bank.
* We have directed the staff at Democratic Headquarters in Washington to use local volunteers signed up on HurricaneHousing.org as they work with DC emergency response officials to assist hundreds of survivors being transported to the DC Armory, which is located nearby.

In addition to mobilizing our infrastructure to support the housing drive, we have also taken the following steps in the last week:

* All DNC fundraising events have been cancelled until further notice and donations are being directed to relief organizations.
* The DNC Fall Meeting that had been scheduled to take place this week has been postponed.
* All staff have been given leave to participate in relief operations (many are completing Red Cross training this week and will deploy shortly).
* The Democratic leadership in Congress has proposed a comprehensive policy package to ensure that victims receive health care, financial assistance and educational and employment opportunities during the crisis (go to www.democrats.org/reliefplan for more).

But more than anything our organization has done, the thousands of acts of compassion by ordinary citizens and a renewed sense of common purpose will be the legacy of this effort.

Our American community will emerge stronger from this crisis.

Thank you for doing what you can.

Governor Howard Dean, M.D.

P.S. -- A number of organizations on the ground still need financial support. You can learn about them here:

http://www.democrats.org/reliefgroups

Result number: 141

Message Number 182374

Some may end up in a better situation View Thread
Posted by Ralph on 9/08/05 at 17:00

Today I decided to try a look for a positive that may come from Katrina and one thing that came to mind is that some of the people that have been displaced may actually find themselves and their situation better now that they have had to move.

Many may want to go back to a rebuilt N.O. but many may find better housing conditions and jobs in the states where they were transported.

They may find better schools for their children and maybe find out that other local governments handle government programs if they qualify working better for them.

When someone wrote Katrina was God's wrath, maybe he was trying to get his people into a better situation longterm. Those moved certainly wouldn't have the means to begin life again in a new state, but maybe just maybe now out of this terrible crisis they will find something better. A new start, new friends, new churches, new jobs, better living conditions, better schools, renewed hope for a better future for their children etc.

Tonight this will be my prayer for those displaced by Katrina that something positive come from what they lived through. That they will enjoy the better fruits of this earth.

Result number: 142

Message Number 182370

How very sad View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/08/05 at 16:16

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Countdown-Timeline-Katrina.mov

Scarbourough's tough criticism of Republicans. Thank you Joe.

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Scarborough-bashes-republicans-Katrina.mov

I have always respected Joe and not because he and I are in agreement with each other but because he's honest.

Scott, I have no problem with your criticism of the welfare system or of the criminals in NOLA who made this job much tougher. There is no denying that was an issue, but to blame them for the lack of response immediately after the first levee broke is wrong and uninformed. That's when the federal government didn't just fail welfare recipiants in NOLA they failed America. They failed each and every citizen.

Senator Bayh's response:

Their response may have allowed the Democrats to seize the issue that Republicans had hammered them with in the past two elections: national security. "Our government failed at one of the most basic functions it has - providing for the physical safety of our citizens," Senator Evan Bayh, an Indiana Democrat who is considering a run for president in 2008, declared in a speech on the Senate floor.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/national/nationalspecial/08democrats.html?ei=5088&en=876f630899926392&ex=1283832000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1126152273-6SZRf5x/AMO8ZChn6tfzYg

I am stunned that the same man, our president, hastily made it back to Washington D.C. to sign the Schiavo Bill but couldn't manage the same attention for the disadvantaged in NOLA. Hey, oh well. Who cares if the innocent died with the guilty? GOP doesn't care? Poor Trent Lott. While the elderly, families, young, old, sick and poor wasted away in their urin so our Secretary of State could buy new shoes and Bush could visit McCain. No.....I am truely saddened by the lack of humanity by so many now.......even here today on this message board. It takes a stand up man to do the right thing. Thank you Joe Scarborough and all the rest of the conservatives who still have their integrity and their heart. God bless you. and the rest......only God can pass judgement on you and He will.

best wishes marie

Result number: 143

Message Number 182368

oopsy Olberman's Timeline View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/08/05 at 15:59

The link above didn't work so here is another one.

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Countdown-Timeline-Katrina.mov

Result number: 144

Message Number 182366

As far as I can tell their were 3 areas of failure. View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/08/05 at 15:52

I liked the the one were conservatives were trying to make folks think liberals were blaming Bush for the hurricane. Duhhh! That is the dumbest spin I have ever heard in my life. How stupid do they think the average American is? Can you guys believe these people are from our country?

Keith Olberman's Time Line: http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Countdown-Timeline-Katrina.wmv

Daily Show: "Meet The F***kers"
http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/headlines/index.jhtml

NOLA should have moved all modes of transportation to higher ground before Katrina hit. Now it would have been a little difficult finding that many bus drivers on a weekend after people had been told to leave the city but I have to wonder if they tried.

Blanco should have made more timely decisions.

Bush should have got off his duff and gone to work. Actually his behavior doesn't stun me a bit. he has been a walking blunder since he took office.Below is the timeline complete with functioning links.
They cried for help but no one came.

Friday, August 26

GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: [Office of the Governor]

GULF COAST STATES REQUEST TROOP ASSISTANCE FROM PENTAGON: At a 9/1 press conference, Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, commander, Joint Task Force Katrina, said that the Gulf States began the process of requesting additional forces on Friday, 8/26. [DOD]

Saturday, August 27

5AM KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 3 HURRICANE [CNN]

GOV. BLANCO ASKS BUSH TO DECLARE FEDERAL STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. [Office of the Governor]

FEDERAL EMERGENCY DECLARED, DHS AND FEMA GIVEN FULL AUTHORITY TO RESPOND TO KATRINA: Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. [White House]

Sunday, August 28

2AM KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN]

7AM KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 5 HURRICANE [CNN]

MORNING LOUISIANA NEWSPAPER SIGNALS LEVEES MAY GIVE: Forecasters Fear Levees Will Not Hold Katrina: Forecasters feared Sunday afternoon that storm driven waters will lap over the New Orleans levees when monster Hurricane Katrina pushes past the Crescent City tomorrow. [Lafayette Daily Advertiser]

9:30 AM MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES FIRST EVER MANDATORY EVACUATION OF NEW ORLEANS: We are facing the storm most of us have feared, said Nagin. This is going to be an unprecedented event. [Times-Picayune]

4PM NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ISSUES SPECIAL HURRICANE WARNING: In the event of a category 4 or 5 hit, Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps longer. At least one-half of well-constructed homes will have roof and wall failure. All gabled roofs will fail, leaving those homes severely damaged or destroyed. Power outages will last for weeks. Water shortages will make human suffering incredible by modern standards. [National Weather Service]

AFTERNOON BUSH, BROWN, CHERTOFF WARNED OF LEVEE FAILURE BY NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER DIRECTOR: Dr. Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center: We were briefing them way before landfall. It is not like this was a surprise. We had in the advisories that the levee could be topped. [Times-Picayune; St. Petersburg Times]

LATE PM REPORTS OF WATER TOPPLING OVER LEVEE: Waves crashed atop the exercise path on the Lake Pontchartrain levee in Kenner early Monday as Katrina churned closer. [Times-Picayune]

APPROXIMATELY 30,000 EVACUEES GATHER AT SUPERDOME WITH ROUGHLY 36 HOURS WORTH OF FOOD [Times-Picayune]

Monday, August 29

7AM KATRINA MAKES LANDFALL AS A CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN]

8AM MAYOR NAGIN REPORTS THAT WATER IS FLOWING OVER LEVEE: I have gotten reports this morning that there is already water coming over some of the levee systems. In the lower ninth ward, we have had one of our pumping stations to stop operating, so we will have significant flooding, it is just a matter of how much. [NBC’s Today Show]

MORNING BUSH CALLS SECRETARY CHERTOFF TO DISCUSS IMMIGRATION: I spoke to Mike Chertoff today he is the head of the Department of Homeland Security. I knew people would want me to discuss this issue [immigration], so we got us an airplane on a telephone on Air Force One, so I called him. I said, are you working with the governor? He said, you bet we are. [White House]

MORNING BUSH SHARES BIRTHDAY CAKE PHOTO OP WITH SEN. JOHN MCCAIN [White House]

11AM BUSH VISITS ARIZONA RESORT TO PROMOTE MEDICARE DRUG BENEFIT: This new bill I signed says, if you are a senior and you like the way things are today, you are in good shape, do not change. But, by the way, there is a lot of different options for you. And we are here to talk about what that means to our seniors. [White House]

LATE MORNING LEVEE BREACHED: A large section of the vital 17th Street Canal levee, where it connects to the brand new hurricane proof Old Hammond Highway bridge, gave way late Monday morning in Bucktown after Katrina s fiercest winds were well north. [Times-Picayune]

11:30AM MICHAEL BROWN FINALLY REQUESTS THAT DHS DISPATCH 1,000 EMPLOYEES TO REGION, GIVES THEM TWO DAYS TO ARRIVE: Brown s memo to Chertoff described Katrina as this near catastrophic event but otherwise lacked any urgent language. The memo politely ended, Thank you for your consideration in helping us to meet our responsibilities. [AP]

2PM BUSH TRAVELS TO CALIFORNIA SENIOR CENTER TO DISCUSS MEDICARE DRUG BENEFIT: We have got some folks up here who are concerned about their Social Security or Medicare. Joan Geist is with us. I could tell she was looking at me when I first walked in the room to meet her, she was wondering whether or not old George W. is going to take away her Social Security check. [White House]

9PM RUMSFELD ATTENDS SAN DIEGO PADRES BASEBALL GAME: Rumsfeld joined Padres President John Moores in the owner s box at Petco Park. [Editor & Publisher]

Tuesday, August 30

9AM BUSH SPEAKS ON IRAQ AT NAVAL BASE CORONADO [White House]

MIDDAY CHERTOFF FINALLY BECOMES AWARE THAT LEVEE HAS FAILED: It was on Tuesday that the levee may have been overnight Monday to Tuesday that the levee started to break. And it was midday Tuesday that I became aware of the fact that there was no possibility of plugging the gap and that essentially the lake was going to start to drain into the city. [Meet the Press, 9/4/05]

PENTAGON CLAIMS THERE ARE ENOUGH NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS IN REGION: Pentagon spokesman Lawrence Di Rita said the states have adequate National Guard units to handle the hurricane needs. [WWL-TV]

MASS LOOTING REPORTED, SECURITY SHORTAGE CITED: The looting is out of control. The French Quarter has been attacked, Councilwoman Jackie Clarkson said. We are using exhausted, scarce police to control looting when they should be used for search and rescue while we still have people on rooftops. [AP]

U.S.S. BATAAN SITS OFF SHORE, VIRTUALLY UNUSED: The USS Bataan, a 844-foot ship designed to dispatch Marines in amphibious assaults, has helicopters, doctors, hospital beds, food and water. It also can make its own water, up to 100,000 gallons a day. And it just happened to be in the Gulf of Mexico when Katrina came roaring ashore. The Bataan rode out the storm and then followed it toward shore, awaiting relief orders. Helicopter pilots flying from its deck were some of the first to begin plucking stranded New Orleans residents. But now the Bataan s hospital facilities, including six operating rooms and beds for 600 patients, are empty. [Chicago Tribune]

3PM PRESIDENT BUSH PLAYS GUITAR WITH COUNTRY SINGER MARK WILLIS [AP]

BUSH RETURNS TO CRAWFORD FOR FINAL NIGHT OF VACATION [AP]

Wednesday, August 31

TENS OF THOUSANDS TRAPPED IN SUPERDOME; CONDITIONS DETERIORATE: A 2 year old girl slept in a pool of urine. Crack vials littered a restroom. Blood stained the walls next to vending machines smashed by teenagers. We pee on the floor. We are like animals, said Taffany Smith, 25, as she cradled her 3 week-old son, Terry. By Wednesday, it had degenerated into horror. At least two people, including a child, have been raped. At least three people have died, including one man who jumped 50 feet to his death, saying he had nothing left to live for. There is no sanitation. The stench is overwhelming. [Los Angeles Times, 9/1/05]

PRESIDENT BUSH FINALLY ORGANIZES TASK FORCE TO COORDINATE FEDERAL RESPONSE: Bush says on Tuesday he will fly to Washington to begin work with a task force that will coordinate the work of 14 federal agencies involved in the relief effort. [New York Times, 8/31/05]

JEFFERSON PARISH EMERGENCY DIRECTOR SAYS FOOD AND WATER SUPPLY GONE: Director Walter Maestri: FEMA and national agencies not delivering the help nearly as fast as it is needed. [WWL-TV]

80,000 BELIEVED STRANDED IN NEW ORLEANS: Former Mayor Sidney Barthelemy estimated 80,000 were trapped in the flooded city and urged President Bush to send more troops. [Reuters]

3,000 STRANDED AT CONVENTION CENTER WITHOUT FOOD OR WATER: With 3,000 or more evacuees stranded at the convention center and with no apparent contingency plan or authority to deal with them collecting a body was no one s priority. Some had been at the convention center since Tuesday morning but had received no food, water or instructions. [Times-Picayune]

5PM BUSH GIVES FIRST MAJOR ADDRESS ON KATRINA: Nothing about the president s demeanor which seemed casual to the point of carelessness suggested that he understood the depth of the current crisis. [New York Times]

8:00PM CONDOLEEZZA RICE TAKES IN A BROADWAY SHOW: On Wednesday night, Secretary Rice was booed by some audience members at Spamalot!, the Monty Python musical at the Shubert, when the lights went up after the performance.[New York Post, 9/2/05]

9PM FEMA DIRECTOR BROWN CLAIMS SURPRISE OVER SIZE OF STORM: I must say, this storm is much much bigger than anyone expected. [CNN]

Thursday, September 1

8AM BUSH CLAIMS NO ONE EXPECTED LEVEES TO BREAK: I do not think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees. [Washington Post]

CONDOLEEZZA RICE VISITS U.S. OPEN: Rice, [in New York] on three days vacation to shop and see the U.S. Open, hitting some balls with retired champ Monica Seles at the Indoor Tennis Club at Grand Central. [New York Post]

STILL NO COMMAND AND CONTROL ESTABLISHED: Terry Ebbert, New Orleans Homeland Security Director: This is a national emergency. This is a national disgrace. FEMA has been here three days, yet there is no command and control. We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims, but we can’t bail out the city of New Orleans. [Fox News]

2PM MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES DESPERATE SOS TO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT: This is a desperate SOS. Right now we are out of resources at the convention centre and do not anticipate enough buses. We need buses. Currently the convention centre is unsanitary and unsafe and we are running out of supplies. [Guardian, 9/2/05]

2PM MICHAEL BROWN CLAIMS NOT TO HAVE HEARD OF REPORTS OF VIOLENCE: I have had no reports of unrest, if the connotation of the word unrest means that people are beginning to riot, or you know, they are banging on walls and screaming and hollering or burning tires or whatever. I have had no reports of that. [CNN]

NEW ORLEANS DESCEND[S] INTO ANARCHY: Storm victims were raped and beaten, fights and fires broke out, corpses lay out in the open, and rescue helicopters and law enforcement officers were shot at as flooded-out New Orleans descended into anarchy Thursday. This is a desperate SOS, the mayor said. [AP]

CONDOLEEZZA RICE GOES SHOE SHOPPING: Just moments ago at the Ferragamo on 5th Avenue, Condoleeza Rice was seen spending several thousands of dollars on some nice, new shoes (we have confirmed this, so her new heels will surely get coverage from the WaPos Robin Givhan A fellow shopper), unable to fathom the absurdity of Rice s timing, went up to the Secretary and reportedly shouted, How dare you shop for shoes while thousands are dying and homeless! [Gawker]

MICHAEL BROWN FINALLY LEARNS OF EVACUEES IN CONVENTION CENTER: We learned about that (Thursday), so I have directed that we have all available resources to get that convention center to make sure that they have the food and water and medical care that they need. [CNN]

Friday, September 2

ROVE-LED CAMPAIGN TO BLAME LOCAL OFFICIALS BEGINS: Under the command of President Bush s two senior political advisers, the White House rolled out a plan to contain the political damage from the administration s response to Hurricane Katrina. President Bush s comments from the Rose Garden Friday morning formed the start of this campaign. [New York Times, 9/5/05]

9:35AM BUSH PRAISES MICHAEL BROWN: Brownie, you are doing a heck of a job. [White House, 9/2/05]

10 AM PRESIDENT BUSH STAGES PHOTO-OP BRIEFING: Coast Guard helicopters and crew diverted to act as backdrop for President Bush s photo-op.

BUSH VISIT GROUNDS FOOD AID: Three tons of food ready for delivery by air to refugees in St. Bernard Parish and on Algiers Point sat on the Crescent City Connection bridge Friday afternoon as air traffic was halted because of President Bush s visit to New Orleans, officials said. [Times-Picayune]

LEVEE REPAIR WORK ORCHESTRATED FOR PRESIDENT S VISIT: Sen. Mary Landrieu, 9/3: Touring this critical site yesterday with the President, I saw what I believed to be a real and significant effort to get a handle on a major cause of this catastrophe. Flying over this critical spot again this morning, less than 24 hours later, it became apparent that yesterday we witnessed a hastily prepared stage set for a Presidential photo opportunity; and the desperately needed resources we saw were this morning reduced to a single, lonely piece of equipment. [Sen. Mary Landrieu]

BUSH USES 50 FIREFIGHTERS AS PROPS IN DISASTER AREA PHOTO-OP: A group of 1,000 firefighters convened in Atlanta to volunteer with the Katrina relief efforts. Of those, a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew s first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.[Salt Lake Tribune; Reuters]

3PM BUSH SATISFIED WITH THE RESPONSE: I am satisfied with the response. I am not satisfied with all the results. [AP]

Saturday, September 3

SENIOR BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL LIES TO WASHINGTON POST, CLAIMS GOV. BLANCO NEVER DECLARED STATE OF EMERGENCY: The Post reported in their Sunday edition As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said. They were forced to issue a correction hours later. [Washington Post, 9/4/05]

9AM BUSH BLAMES STATE AND LOCAL OFFICIALS: [T]he magnitude of responding to a crisis over a disaster area that is larger than the size of Great Britain has created tremendous problems that have strained state and local capabilities. The result is that many of our citizens simply are not getting the help they need. [White House, 9/3


Those who blindly defend the lack of RESPONSE (key word) by the federal government will carry the burdon of the lost souls with them to the next world. Those who were up in arms about Terry Shciavo but not about the lack of RESPONSE by the federal government to Katrina will carry well over 20,000 souls the like of Terry Schiavo to the next life. What ugly monster has crawled into their hearts to refrain from holding all parties responisble accept their beloved Republicans?

Result number: 145

Message Number 182355

Re: Interesting aside re: Hurricane Katrina View Thread
Posted by Ralph on 9/08/05 at 14:04

Liboralis,
Out of the ashes a bit of humor. Others may not agree, but I really needed a smile today. My heart is so heavy for the loss that others have suffered. Overwhelming saddness everywhere.

Result number: 146

Message Number 182332

Re: Interesting aside re: Hurricane Katrina View Thread
Posted by liboralis on 9/08/05 at 11:45

Are you talking about Ted kennedy? He does know a thing or two about people being stranded in water

sorry

Result number: 147

Message Number 182316

Re: new orleans - finally an honest assessment View Thread
Posted by liboralis on 9/08/05 at 09:46


NEW ORLEANS, Sept. 6, 2005 — In New Orleans, those in peril and those in power have pointed the finger squarely at the federal government for the delayed relief effort.

But experts say when natural disasters strike, it is the primary responsibility of state and local governments — not the federal government — to respond.


Related: Finding Relatives, Friends
Video: Probing the Response





Full Coverage: Katrina


Full Coverage: Katrina
Katrina Internet Charity Scams Try to Dupe Donors
Person of the Week: Complete Coverage
New Orleans' own comprehensive emergency plan raises the specter of "having large numbers of people … stranded" and promises "the city … will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas."

"Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves," the plan states.

When Hurricane Katrina hit, however, that plan was not followed completely.

Instead of sending city buses to evacuate those who could not make it out on their own, people in New Orleans were told to go to the Superdome and the Convention Center, where no one provided sufficient sustenance or security.


'Lives Would Have Been Saved'

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said "80 percent" of the city was evacuated before the storm hit, but Bob Williams says that's not good enough.

Williams dealt with emergency response issues as a state representative in Washington when his district was forced to deal with the eruption of Mount St. Helens in 1980.

"If the plan were implemented, lives would have been saved," Williams said.

There's no question the federal government plays a major role in disaster relief. But federal officials say in order to get involved, they must first be asked to do so by state officials.

As one FEMA official told ABC News, Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco failed to submit a request for help in a timely manner.

Shortly before Katrina hit, she sent President Bush a request asking for shelter and provisions, but didn't specifically ask for help with evacuations. One aide to the governor told ABC News today Blanco thought city officials were taking care of the evacuation.

Result number: 148

Message Number 182307

Re: Get out the noose... View Thread
Posted by vince on 9/08/05 at 08:35

Give nothing to anybody- Bush will see too it that we all give plenty. $700,000,000 in debit cards for a starter- best way to pay for the damage from Katrina is tax the oil co's on excess profits and mandate that they cannot pass it along. I think 40 billion in profit for the last quarter is excessive as is a salary of $31 million for the CEO of Exxon. I was always a stron advocate of leave business alone but the oil co thieves are changing my mind.

Result number: 149

Message Number 182306

Re: Interesting aside re: Hurricane Katrina View Thread
Posted by concerned on 9/08/05 at 07:49

Why would voters do that at the state level, when we keep electing an administration that has been robbing us blind and thinks we're stupid?

Result number: 150

Message Number 182304

Re: Interesting aside re: Hurricane Katrina View Thread
Posted by vince on 9/08/05 at 07:12

What state is not a "Black Hole" for taxpayers $'s? This year every voter should cast their ballot against any incumbant running. Every incumbant who is up for re-election should be voted out of office no matter who their opponent is. Voters in Ma. are exempt because they are too stupid to realize what a piece of human trash, the drunken, lying, murderer they keep electing is.

Result number: 151

Message Number 182300

Re: Get out the noose... View Thread
Posted by vince on 9/08/05 at 06:21

Give nothing to anybody- Bush will see too it that we all give plenty. $700,000,000 in debit cards for a starter- best way to pay for the damage from Katrina is tax the oil co's on excess profits and mandate that they cannot pass it along. I think 40 billion in profit for the last quarter is excessive as is a salary of $31 million for the CEO of Exxon. I was always a stron advocate of leave business alone but the oil co thieves are changing my mind.

Result number: 152

Message Number 182271

Get out the noose... View Thread
Posted by Ed Davis, DPM on 9/07/05 at 21:42


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KATRINA SCAMS EMERGE
Wed Sep 07 2005 17:40:55 ET

Even as Americans rally to make donations to the victims of Hurricane Katrina, the Internet is brimming with scams, come-ons and opportunistic pandering related to the relief effort in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama -- and in greater numbers and varieties than any past disaster, according to Thursday editions of the NEW YORK TIMES.

Florida's attorney general has already filed a lawsuit against a man who mounted one of the earliest networks of Web sites -- katrinahelp.com, katrinadonations.com and others -- which purported to collect donations for victims of the storm. In Missouri, a much wider constellation of Internet domains -- with names like parishdonations.com and katrinafamilies.com -- displays pictures of the flood-ravaged south and drives traffic to a single site, InternetDonations.org, a nonprofit entity with apparent links to a white supremacist group.



Developing...

Result number: 153

Message Number 182265

Re: Interesting aside re: Hurricane Katrina View Thread
Posted by Ed Davis, DPM on 9/07/05 at 21:02

Kathy:
Fort Lewis is taking 2000 NOLA victims. I found out from a teacher today.
The teachers are already overworked and underpaid and are a bit flustered by the influx, wondering how they are going to incorporate the extra workload. Property values have skyrocketed in the Seattle area so the area should be flush with money to pay the teachers more via the increased property taxes but state government is like a black hole with no one really sure where the money goes.
Ed

Result number: 154

Message Number 182230

Interesting aside re: Hurricane Katrina View Thread
Posted by Kathy G on 9/07/05 at 16:06

The state of MA had Camp Edwards on Cape Cod prepared to take several hundred (It may be thousand. I'm not thinking very clearly right now.) evacuees from the storm. They decided they didn't want to come.

While some in the North apparently feel a bit insulted, I quite understand how they must feel. They would be totally out of their element. I can only personalize it and think how I would feel if someone down South offered to let me stay down there. I wouldn't feel comfortable. I'm a born and bred Northerner; the farthest south I've ever been was Virginia and that was briefly. The only Blacks I know can be counted on one hand and the farthest they've come from is the Boston area. One of the families I'm friendly with was born in this town. We don't pay any attention to the fact that they're Black because they don't pay any attention to the fact that we're White. It's actually kind of the way we all wish the whole country would be but we're just a microcosm, like many Northern towns.

Here we're asking these people to abandon their home and their culture. At least if they go to a southern state, they'll be with Southerners. They'd be cold in the North and trying to understand our strange dialect. Our food would be different. Not only that; it's one thing to evacuate to a neighboring state, it's another to evacuate to what would seem like a world away. They'd really wonder if they would lose any claim to their homes.

I went to the doctor for cortisone shots in my neck today, thus if I'm less coherent than usual, we can blame it on the drugs I'm taking for the pain. Afterward, I went to the Mall and saw where Filene's, a large department store was matching any donation made, dollar for dollar, and giving the money to the Red Cross. You didn't even have to make a purchase. I thought that was great and thus finally gave my donation, after trying to decide if another charity would be better.

My daughter works with a lady who comes from Mississippi and she says that we should be donating to faith-based charities but I have to think that the Red Cross is going to help someone. I don't know - maybe an atheist! I shouldn't jest, I know, but it's so hard to know to whom to give your money.

I have no doubt that tonight there will be all kinds of talk radio criticism but I for one, totally understand why none of the Southerners wanted to venture so far from their homes, even if they are destroyed. Home is home.

Result number: 155

Message Number 182222

Re: new orleans - finally an honest assessment? A Timeline View Thread
Posted by concerned on 9/07/05 at 15:23

That opinion piece could be one part of an honest assessment, though hardly a full assessment. No doubt it has some truth to it, but it is also full of rash generalizations, and there are many other truths about the Katrina responce that can't be overlooked. This timeline is worth pondering:

-------

Timeline

Friday, Aug. 26: Gov. Kathleen Blanco declares a state of emergency in Louisiana and requests troop assistance.

Saturday, Aug. 27: Gov. Blanco asks for federal state of emergency. A federal emergency is declared giving federal officials the authority to get involved.

Sunday, Aug. 28: Mayor Ray Nagin orders mandatory evacuation of New Orleans. President Bush warned of Levee failure by National Hurricane Center. National Weather Service predicts area will be "uninhabitable" after Hurricane arrives. First reports of water toppling over the levee appear in local paper.

Monday, Aug. 29: Levee breaches and New Orleans begins to fill with water, Bush travels to Arizona and California to discuss Medicare. FEMA chief finally responds to federal emergency, dispatching employees but giving them two days to arrive on site.

Tuesday, Aug. 30: Mass looting reported, security shortage cited in New Orleans. Pentagon says that local authorities have adequate National Guard units to handle hurricane needs despite governor's earlier request. Bush returns to Crawford for final day of vacation. TV coverage is around-the-clock Hurricane news.

Wednesday, Aug. 31: Tens of thousands trapped in New Orleans including at Convention Center and Superdome in "medieval" conditions. President Bush finally returns to Washington to establish a task force to coordinate federal response. Local authorities run out of food and water supplies.

Thursday, Sept. 1: New Orleans descends into anarchy. New Orleans Mayor issues a "Desperate SOS" to federal government. Bush claims nobody predicted the breach of the levees despite multiple warnings and his earlier briefing.

Friday, Sept. 2: Karl Rove begins Bush administration campaign to blame state and local officials—despite their repeated requests for help. Bush stages a photo-op—diverting Coast Guard helicopters and crew to act as backdrop for cameras. Levee repair work orchestrated for president's visit and White House press corps.

Saturday, Sept. 3: Bush blames state and local officials. Senior administration official (possibly Rove) caught in a lie claiming Gov. Blanco had not declared a state of emergency or asked for help.

Monday, Sept. 5: New Orleans officials begin to collect their dead.

(Adapted from: Katrina Timeline, http://thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline/ )

Those are the facts. State and local officials BEGGED for help as people in their city suffered. The Bush administration didn't get the job done and when their failure became an embarrassment they attacked those asking for help.

Result number: 156

Message Number 182193

Re: Some Past History View Thread
Posted by John H on 9/07/05 at 11:25

Dorothy you are like me Ed,Marie and some others in that we are out front and often out spoken on many subjects. We open ourselves up to criticism from both sides of issues. I thought your adrenaline was supposed to subside as you age but mine seems to be increasing. I am prepared to take the best shots from those who disagree with me. After all they are just opinions some based upon fact and some off the cuff and some from life experience. I need to take a break for a few days as I am starting to suffer from Katrina overload. Debating on the net is very different than face to face. Would it not be interesting if we could sit around a big table and look at each other and discuss these many issues. Meanwhile I do what ever I can to support the real world victims with donations and whatever I can do locally.

It appears the Superdome will be torn down. I am receiving some calls from NOLA companies looking for office space in the amount of 100,000 square feet and up. Price of fuel in Little Rock is holding at $2.99. Apparently the damage to the offshore oil wells was not severe and they are coming back online. One major refinery is already pumping oil. Oil futures are dropping so we may not be in the oil crisis many have predicted.

Result number: 157

Message Number 182185

Where are the busses View Thread
Posted by John H on 9/07/05 at 10:37

Maybe New Orleans Mayor Nagin would like to explain this picture before he and the rest of his democrat fellow travelers continue to blast the fed's.

Pass this around. They had plenty of means to get people out. Their claims of “we had no transportation” are, to be nice, suspect. *** Thursday, Sept. 1, 2005: An aerial view of hundreds of flooded school buses in a lot in New Orleans, LA. The flood is a result of Hurricane Katrina that passed through the area last Monday.(AP Photo/Phil Coale) *** As regards the National Guard troops and security, the Governor of the state of Louisiana always had the power to deploy the LA guard in the fashion that other state troops are being deployed today. It is her failure to do so that has prompted the President to get the help from other states. The Mayor of New Orleans, who ordered all those people into the Superdome (yep, that was his big plan), had the power to bus them out of the city at the same time. The City of New Orleans moves many more children each day on school buses than were in the dome. Those buses were available and slated to be used for school the next day. He could easily have evacuated those people...but did not. When ordering a mandatory evacuation you use what resources you have to move the people...he did not. If it was important and dangerous enough to order all citizens to leave, it was dangerous enough to help those people to leave. Yet, they did not. After they failed to do so...the busses ended up under water and useless. Their evacuation plan was non-existent.

Their evacuation plan was get out on your own.

They know where every school in the state is. Most of them have gyms.

They could have bussed out 100-200 people to each of those gyms 100 miles inland and left the city empty.

The Mayor failed. The Governor does not appear to have put the National Guard on alert prior to the storm.

Both of them sat on their butts and waited for the feds to do it all. In the end, it was FEMA, after the local and state government's failure, that had to get the job done...but now under much, much worse and dangerous circumstances. No, it is not entirely Bush's fault or the totally the fed's fault. We must place blame squarely where it lies at the feet of the local and state executives who had neither the desire nor the will to make those calls, irrespective of their political stripe.








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Result number: 158

Message Number 182184

The line of responsibility View Thread
Posted by John H on 9/07/05 at 10:33


> > Subject: Katrina Relief - Who is responsible
> >
> >
> >
> > In case you aren’t familiar with how our government is SUPPOSED to
> > work:
> > The chain of responsiblity for the protection of the citizens in New
> > Orleans is:
> >
> > 1. The Mayor
> > 2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security (a political
> > appointee of the Governor who reports to the Governor)
> > 3. The Governor
> > 4. The Head of Homeland Security
> > 5. The President
> >
> > What did each do?
> >
> > 1. The mayor, with 5 days advance, waited until 2 days before he
> > announced a mandatory evacuation (at the behest of the President). The
> > he failed to provide transportation for those without transport even
> > though he had hundreds of buses at his disposal.
> >
> > 2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security failed to have any
> > plan for a contingency that has been talked about for 50 years. Then
> > he blames the Feds for not doing what he should have done.
> >
> > 3. The Governor, despite a declaration of disaster by the President 2
> > DAYS BEFORE the storm hit, failed to take advantage of the offer of
> > Federal troops and aid. Until 2 DAYS AFTER the storm hit.
> >
> > 4. The Director of Homeland Security positioned assets in the area to
> > be ready when the Governor called for them
> >
> > 5. The President urged a mandatory evacuation, and even declared a
> > disaster State of Emergency, freeing up millions of dollars of federal
> > assistance, should the Governor decide to use it.
> >
> > Oh and by the way, the levees that broke were the responsibility of
> > the local landowners and the local levee board to maintain, NOT THE
> > FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
> >
> > The disaster in New Orleans is what you get after decades of corrupt
> > government going all the way back to Huey Long.
> >

Result number: 159

Message Number 182119

Re: "Last December the US mobilised massive relief for a flood halfway around the world in two days, and after nearly a week those people just down in Louisiana still didn't have any water." View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/06/05 at 17:29

Senator Landrieu she's had a change of heart towards Bush. Anderson Cooper let her have it for being to politically correct here but a couple days later she let Bush have it. In the end of the video she tearfully pleaded for help.

Result number: 160

Message Number 182108

Re: "Last December the US mobilised massive relief for a flood halfway around the world in two days, and after nearly a week those people just down in Louisiana still didn't have any water." View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/06/05 at 15:44

"True, by the time I get around to defending George Bush my justifications grow feeble. Sure, I concede. He doesn't look too upset. He's crap at feeling your pain. But Bill Clinton was just as big an emotional fraud; he was simply a better actor. Bush is an appalling rhetorician at the best of times - which these ain't. And this president's entire political lexicon has been fashioned around enemies. Look at him: he's lost. He can't rail at Katrina for opposing "freedom" and "democracy," even if the bloody storm does have a girl's name. He can't decry the "axis of evil" comprising Iran and North Korea and then throw in a hurricane without somebody piping up, "What doesn't belong in this picture?" Since it's a stretch to blame Osama bin Laden for the weather, his speechwriters are stymied."

Same here.

Result number: 161

Message Number 182067

another take on hurricane View Thread
Posted by liboralis on 9/06/05 at 08:58

George W. finally gets it -- in more ways than one. The tardy president was back on the Gulf Coast yesterday, bucking up the spirits of the damned and stiffening the resolve of the slackers.
He's getting it as well from his critics, many of whom can't believe their great good luck, that a hurricane, of all things, finally gives them the opening they've been waiting for to heap calumny and scorn on him for something that might get a little traction. Cindy Sheehan is yesterday's news; she couldn't attract a camera crew this morning if she stripped down to her step-ins for a march on Prairie Chapel Ranch.
The vultures of the venomous left are attacking on two fronts, first that the president didn't do what the incompetent mayor of New Orleans and the pouty governor of Louisiana should have done, and didn't, in the early hours after Katrina loosed the deluge on the city that care and good judgment forgot. Ray Nagin, the mayor, ordered a "mandatory" evacuation a day late, but kept the city's 2,000 school buses parked and locked in neat rows when there was still time to take the refugees to higher ground. The bright-yellow buses sit ruined now in four feet of dirty water. Then the governor, Kathleen Blanco, resisted early pleas to declare martial law, and her dithering opened the way for looters, rapists and killers to make New Orleans an unholy hell. Gov. Haley Barbour did not hesitate in neighboring Mississippi, and looters, rapists and killers have not turned the streets of Gulfport and Biloxi into killing fields.
The drumbeat of partisan ingratitude continues even after the president flooded the city with National Guardsmen from a dozen states, paratroopers from Fort Bragg and Marines from the Atlantic and the Pacific. The flutter and chatter of the helicopters above the ghostly abandoned city, some of them from as far away as Singapore and averaging 240 missions a day, is eerily reminiscent of the last days of Saigon. Nevertheless, Sen. Mary Landrieu, who seems to think she's cute when she's mad, even threatened on national television to punch out the president -- a felony, by the way, even as a threat. Mayor Nagin, who you might think would be looking for a place to hide, and Gov. Blanco, nursing a bigtime snit, can't find the right word of thanks to a nation pouring out its heart and emptying its pockets. Maybe the senator should consider punching out the governor, only a misdemeanor.
The race hustlers waited for three days to inflame a tense situation, but then set to work with their usual dedication. The Revs. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, our self-appointed twin ambassadors of ill will, made the scene as soon as they could, taking up the coded cry that Katrina was the work of white folks, that a shortage of white looters and snipers made looting and sniping look like black crime, that calling the refugees "refugees" was an act of linguistic racism. A "civil rights activist" on Arianna Huffington's celebrity blog even floated the rumor that the starving folks abandoned in New Orleans had been forced to eat their dead -- after only four days. New Orleans has a reputation for its unusual cuisine, but this tale was so tall that nobody paid it much attention. Neither did anyone tell the tale-bearer to put a dirty sock in it.
Condi Rice went to the scene to say what everyone can see for himself, that no one but the race hustlers imagine Americans of any hue attaching strings to the humanitarian aid pouring into the broken and bruised cities of the Gulf. Most of the suffering faces in the flickering television images are black, true enough, and most of the helping hands are white.
Black and white churches of all denominations across a wide swath of the South stretching from Texas across Arkansas and Louisiana into Mississippi, Tennessee, Kentucky, Alabama and Georgia turned their Sunday schools into kitchens and dormitories. In Memphis, Junior Leaguers turned out for baby-sitting duty at the city's largest, most fashionable and nearly all white Baptist church, cradling tiny black infants in compassionate arms so their mothers could finally sleep. The owner of a honky-tonk showed up to ask whether the church would "accept money from a bar." A pastor took $1,400, some of it in quarters, dimes and nickels, with grateful thanks and a promise to see that it is spent wisely on the deserving -- most of whom are black.
The first polls, no surprise, show the libels are not working. A Washington Post-ABC survey found that the president is not seen as the villain the nutcake left is trying to make him out to be. Americans, skeptical as ever, are believing their own eyes.
Wesley Pruden is editor in chief of The Times.

Result number: 162

Message Number 182063

"Last December the US mobilised massive relief for a flood halfway around the world in two days, and after nearly a week those people just down in Louisiana still didn't have any water." View Thread
Posted by Julie on 9/06/05 at 04:38


I post this piece from today's Guardian as a response to those who still find it possible to defend and justify the failure of our governnment to address adequately the appalling, disgraceful situation that we have all seen developing.

This article is by an American writer who now lives in Britain.


I tried not to get outraged. I really did.

Lionel Shriver
Tuesday September 6, 2005
The Guardian

I am predisposed to interpret the average cock-up as more the fruit of incompetence than conspiracy. I've had enough trouble getting my boiler repaired (after 10 different visits from tradesmen last year, it's broken again) or my council tax squared away (last spring, Southwark council was sending me three different bills per month for the same flat, and one for my neighbour's downstairs) to broadly conclude: most people are terrible at their jobs, and most organisations don't work. So universal is occupational worthlessness that I sometimes adopt a glass-half-full amazement at successful piss-ups in breweries. I pick up the phone: wow! There's a dial tone! Fabulous! I post a cheque: glory be! It arrived! There is a God! I commend installing the baseline assumption that pretty much nobody knows what they're doing and that any given agency will take any problem and make it worse so that you might savour the blazing miraculousness of the fact that civilisation functions at all.

Moreover, my sympathies often gravitate toward unobvious candidates. So for four days following Hurricane Katrina, I shovelled bucketfuls of compassion at the most dubious of parties. Maybe I just like to feel useful. Other folks were already hurling outraged accusations at President Bush, Fema, the governments of Louisiana and Mississippi, the mayor of New Orleans, the National Guard, and ragtag coastal police forces - for being racist, for doing too little too late, for not having heeded warnings about levees and wetlands years ago ... So after every day of cable-news OD, through which comparing a region of the United States to anarchic third world countries such as Somalia actually became a cliche, I would rally to the authorities' defence:

Surely no country is ever prepared for a catastrophe of this magnitude. So many awful things can happen at any one time that you can't organise to field all of them, like being at the net in tennis - oftentimes you can cover the down-the-line or the cross-court reply, but not both. Is Britain ready for Cornwall to drop into the sea? For a meteor the size of the Millennium Dome to land on parliament? For simultaneous nuclear attacks on Birmingham, Glasgow, and Leeds? And it doesn't matter how many decades a disaster such as the one that hit New Orleans has been predicted if it's big enough. Mark my words, when - not if, since seismologists tell us that the event is veritably guaranteed - the San Andreas fault finally obliges with the Big One in California, the results of that earthquake will be at least as horrific as Katrina, regardless of how many clever contingency plans now moulder in Sacramento libraries.

Besides! I declare at dinner, on my second glass of wine. I used to run a catering business, and I appreciate how hard it is to move in food and water on such an epic scale. Remember how long it takes to pack a picnic for three people, and how reliably you still forget the corkscrew? Give these guys a break! The roads are in pieces, their cell phones don't work; no one even knows where a lot of the survivors are, since they can't communicate . . . I mean, I bend so far over backwards to be forgiving and tolerant and empathetic that I could have played limbo with the pole two inches high.

As for whether the relief effort is sluggish and shambolic due to racism (intriguingly, American commentators took at least three days to finally observe, er, gosh, looks like most folks stranded down there are black), I cling fiercely to that partiality for seeing mere incompetence where others spot conspiracy. I sorely wish to believe that had the same misfortune befallen a wealthy white region such as Connecticut the response of American government top to bottom would be every bit as laggardly and useless. Call it naivetÎ, but I will this to be so, for I find the prospect of American race relations having progressed little beyond slavery too depressing to bear. (It is Jesse Jackson, a bit of an opportunist of whom I am none too fond, who observes that the thirsty, bloody, and unsanitary scenes at the New Orleans convention centre resembled a slave ship; I'm afraid he's dead on.) In this matter, I prefer delusion to indignation.

True, by the time I get around to defending George Bush my justifications grow feeble. Sure, I concede. He doesn't look too upset. He's crap at feeling your pain. But Bill Clinton was just as big an emotional fraud; he was simply a better actor. Bush is an appalling rhetorician at the best of times - which these ain't. And this president's entire political lexicon has been fashioned around enemies. Look at him: he's lost. He can't rail at Katrina for opposing "freedom" and "democracy," even if the bloody storm does have a girl's name. He can't decry the "axis of evil" comprising Iran and North Korea and then throw in a hurricane without somebody piping up, "What doesn't belong in this picture?" Since it's a stretch to blame Osama bin Laden for the weather, his speechwriters are stymied.

Yet by about Day Five, all that woolly understanding of mine was exhausted. Last December the US mobilised massive relief for a flood halfway around the world in two days, and after nearly a week those people just down in Louisiana still didn't have any water. As New Orleans was tyrannised by marauding gangs, the National Guard barely started to trickle in, more slowly than we get them to Iraq. As for the race thing, just the way this horror-show looks has set American race relations one giant step backwards, as if Bush has been playing a national game of Simon Says. The hash that every agency involved has made of this rescue effort plays to the most cynical suspicions of African-Americans. Never mind the truth of the matter; that no one in local, state, or federal government gives a rat's ass about those folks because they're black and poor is now well on its way from supposition to established fact.

Compare the post-Katrina Gulf to ramshackle African states as you may, but I've lived in Africa, and one thing you can say for Africans in general is that they're used to things going wrong. They expect to be neglected. They can bring a remarkably philosophical resignation to bear even on disease-carrying flood waters strewn with bloated corpses, on having nothing to eat or drink and being utterly abandoned, and this is where our American friends in New Orleans part company with the Dark Continent. Those people are furious. And so am I.


And so am I.
.

Result number: 163

Message Number 182026

Re: Your student View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/05/05 at 15:43

Thanks Kathy. I didn't want to bring it up in the wake of the Katrina disaster. Just a sweet little girl who loved horses.

Result number: 164

Message Number 182012

Woulda , Coulda, Shoulda View Thread
Posted by Ralph on 9/05/05 at 11:02

We can all speculate on what could have, should have, or would have been done by everyone on earth, but the fact remains that no one really knows if things would have turned out any differently after the city or N.O. flooded.

N.O. was 9 feet below sea level and no one expected the the double hit from water that this city took.

One thing that was known however was the demographics of the population residing there. The current Mayor and Governer and those that held these positions before them knew very well the numbers of people that lived in sections of that city and that many didn't have the means to evacuate any
type of hurricane, or other disaster.

They knew a week in advance of the storm that these poorer individuals didn't have their own way out, yet the first evacuation call put out by the Mayor of N.O. was broadcast only 36 hrs. prior to the storm hitting their shores.

I still go back to the question that boggles my mind. With a weeks warning why didn't the Mayor and Governor use every possible means of transportateion to move those people to safer ground? They had school busses, trains, and private transportation that could have been used early on.

They knew the figures. Every public official that held office in N.O. knew how many people would have to leave if it ever flooded.

When people say that there wasn't a plan they are correct. N.O. never had a plan because they put their faith in concrete and stone to hold back natural forces. Those forces couldn't be tested until Katrina or some other disaster decided to match the levys strength.

No other city in the U.S. has ever faced the flooding condition that exists in N.O. nor have flood waters not receded by itself. Being under sea level N.O. must be pumped out to become dry land.

N.O. was simply a bowl where rich and poor resided and when the side of the bowl broke the lake spilled in reclaiming the land. It was a sitting target waiting for distruction. It was only a matter of time with no thought about rescue of any citizen.

With no plan in place for years, that city created an every person for themself situation should the worst happen. We are seeing the result
of years of neglect in planning.

A dome, a convention center, a few shelters and fragile houses are no match for mother natures rath when all that is between life and death is a wall and some bridges of concrete.

To rebuild in my opinion is to simply put the same people back in harms way.

Rebuild the ports, but relocate the population to higher ground.

Result number: 165

Message Number 182005

Re: And then some more :) View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/05/05 at 10:01

Vince,

I grew up in Atlanta during most of the 60's. I remember the riots. I remember the prejadice on both sides, the anger and hatred. Half my family lives in the south-----including Alabama, Louisiana, Mississipi and Texas. We should always think of our personal safety when on the streets anywhere and caution is always prudent. But you are blaming all black Americans and type casting them by the actions of some. Poverty is our enemy not people. In a disaster the breath and scope of Katrina we must think of those who need a hand. I'm not talking about looters. I am talking about God fearing people who were and are trapped in the attics with water up to their necks. No one came for them. The elderly, the sick, the poor, the children........both white and black. For those who fled Katrina in the safety of their vehicle and did not offer anyone a ride........especially after the levee break will feel a guilt for the rest of their lives. They could have saved one life......just one. You certainly have the right to feel as you do. It's a free country. Men and women of many races fought and died for your right.

best wishes marie

Result number: 166

Message Number 181971

Re: Hopeful View Thread
Posted by Carole C in NOLA on 9/04/05 at 22:45

Judy,

Many or all of the (very active) internet forums on Katrina post numerous links to satellite photos. Even FEMA has one posted. The trick was not finding the photo, but finding a site that would download in less then infinite time since I am on dial-up! :)

Frank's sister recommended this one, and I stayed up half the night downloading it (after failing to get anywhere with another site). I have at least a dozen or two other URL's leading to other sites with satellite photos (of various processing and resolution) but I don't have the time to download them.

Carole C

Result number: 167

Message Number 181953

Breaks My Heart.......My Soul Is New Oreleans View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/04/05 at 18:45

http://2theadvocate.com/stories/090405/new_soul001.shtml


Advocate staff photo by MARK SALTZ
Damion Neville, left, hugs his mother, New Orleans jazz and blues singer Charmaine Neville, who survived Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans. The two were reunited on Saturday in Baton Rouge after Damion arrived from Houston.

"It wasn't that I wanted to ride out the storm, believe me," Neville said. "Two days before the storm hit, I had spent every penny I had saved getting a new roof put on my house. I didn't have any money. I didn't have a car.

"When they said the storm was coming, I barricaded myself in the house and prayed. Many people in my neighborhood stayed because they didn't have resources. We did not stay because we wanted to be looters or martyrs. We stayed because we had to."

On Tuesday, Neville sought shelter at the school across the street from her home. For the next three days, she recalled, the singer waded back and forth in waist-deep water to bring food and drinking water to the growing number of people in the school.

"When we realized they weren't going to pick us up, we had to leave," she said. "So we just started walking, in water, with dead bodies, and fish, this big, and alligators, filth, trash. The smell was horrible."

Some desperate flood victims committed suicide, she said. "Because nobody was coming to help them, they were killing themselves. Some people that just went crazy."

At first, Neville thought her group could find refuge at the Superdome or the Convention Center.

"When we got down there, I saw that they couldn't help themselves," she said. "And when we got to Canal Street, we saw that no one was going to be able to help us."

At the French Quarter's French Market, Neville said, the group spotted a city bus that had been commandeered by a young Ninth Ward resident. They joined him and drove from the city in heavy rain, eventually reaching Donaldsonville. There they found food, shelter and fresh clothes at Shekinah Full Gospel Baptist Church.

Using the church's phone, Neville reached a friend, prompting a flurry of phone calls to other friends and relatives and, finally, the singer's friends in Baton Rouge, who soon arrived to bring her to safety.

Just back from a visit to Our Lady of the Lake Regional Medical Center on Saturday afternoon, Neville was cut, bruised and a little despondent. Among the horrible things she'd seen last week, she said, was the rape of old women, girls and boys.

"Some people hate themselves, so they hate everybody else. Those people were not true New Orleanians," she said.

But Neville saw heroes, too. "There are many, many heroes that have come out this. People talking about what I did. I didn't do nothing. Everybody did something."

Neville said that she, too, was raped during those chaotic days. "What he took from me was nothing, because he can't take my spirit, he can't take my soul. My soul is New Orleans."

Eighteen-year-old Jabbor Gibson jumped aboard the bus as it sat abandoned on a street in New Orleans and took control.

"I just took the bus and drove all the way here...seven hours straight,' Gibson admitted. "I hadn't ever drove a bus."

The teen packed it full of complete strangers and drove to Houston. He beat thousands of evacuees slated to arrive there.

Result number: 168

Message Number 181945

Re: LOOTING View Thread
Posted by scott r on 9/04/05 at 18:06

vince, i have a "no politics" policy, but i was letting it slide because i didn't think the oil and NOLA discussion would get heated. so, don't discuss this stuff. i personally don't care that you say you're a racist, because I'm a racist too. i think white people suck. but that's just me. don't get me started on all the other races. besides, have you ever been to NOLA? well OF COURSE nola more than maybe any other city in the u.s. is going to breakdown and have civil disobedience in a situation like this. well anyway, 3 have voted to block you. it seems people don't like racists. god forbid if you were to claim there's a difference between saint benards and black labs. southern poverty center here in montgomery would love to put you on their hate lists so they can convince more wealthy jews to pay for its huge advertising budget (requests for funds whilst promoting the idea that racism is rampant in the country). but there's no law against being a racist and you weren't speaking bad about anyone (at least board members) and i didn't see where you were picking a fight. but anyway, just don't post anything controversial as it relates to politics (including katrina and oil) and let the touchy-feel-good people have fun with this "unexpected" disaster. as for me, i'm off to biloxi tonight with a chain saw. and eventhough i hate white people, i'll use it on downed trees instead.

Result number: 169

Message Number 181942

Re: Katrina: another article View Thread
Posted by liboralis on 9/04/05 at 16:49

Yep GWB caused it alright. Inspite of the fact the mayor of NO did everyhting possible and followed the letter of the emergency plan to a T.

Result number: 170

Message Number 181941

Re: Life after Hurricane Katrina View Thread
Posted by Lindsay M. on 9/04/05 at 16:47

Marie....Where in Indiana do you live??

Result number: 171

Message Number 181920

Casinos and former military bases View Thread
Posted by Ralph on 9/04/05 at 12:52

Well here's my solution. I think we take old military bases turn them into new cities and put casinos on them. We build new housing for those displaced and make these bases self sufficient with schools, shopping, etc.

Allow only those that live on the base to work in the casinos. Use the income from the casinos for their upkeep, salary for the employees and the rest goes to the non working residents on the base.

Items and income made on the base stays on the base. In addition, unemployeed residents would still be able to collect any government welfare checks they were receiving prior to Katrina.

Those that want to work off the base may do so in addition to working at one of the casinos if they desire to do so. Those that choose to move off the base can, but once base housing is turned down or vacated those people may not return. They must secure their own housing elsewhere.

People would be free to choose the base (new city) they want to live in until availability is filled.

In addition to old military bases, other city land may be used for the same purpose anywhere in the U.S.

Those wishing to travel to live with relatives will be given free transportation to that location by air,train, or bus. Once in the terminal relatives or friends would have been notified of their arrival.

These people would be entitled to any government checks given to all others and any other benefits by the government due to the hurricane.

Result number: 172

Message Number 181918

Dr. Ed your info was right View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/04/05 at 12:43

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050904/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/katrina_washington

It's been confirmed. We are looking at a very large death toll.

WASHINGTON - Health and Human Services Secretary Michael Leavitt said Sunday the death toll from Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath is in the thousands, the first time a federal official has acknowledged what many had feared.
ADVERTISEMENT

Leavitt said he couldn't provide a precise number on the impact of the devastation, but when asked if it was in the thousands, he told CNN's "Late Edition," "I think it's evident it's in the thousands."

"It's clear to me that this has been sickeningly difficult and profoundly tragic circumstance," Leavitt said.

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said it was likely thousands were dead based on the city's population of 500,000, the percentage who left before the storm hit and the number evacuated from the shelters.

"So you probably have another 50-60,000 out there," Nagin said. "You do the math, man, what do you think? Five percent is unreasonable? Ten percent? Twenty percent? It's going to be a big number."

Result number: 173

Message Number 181899

Katrina: another article View Thread
Posted by Julie on 9/04/05 at 08:50


This one is from today's Independent.


Warnings went ignored as Bush slashed flood defence budget to pay for wars
By Geoffrey Lean, Environment Editor
Published: 04 September 2005

Vital measures to protect New Orleans from "catastrophic" hurricane damage were scrapped by the Bush administration to pay for its wars on terror and in Iraq, despite official warnings of impending disaster.

Funding for flood prevention was slashed by 80 per cent, work on strengthening levees to protect the city was stopped for the first time in 37 years, and planning for housing stranded citizens and evacuating refugees from the Superdome were crippled. Yet the administration had been warned repeatedly of the dangers by its own officials.

In early 2001, at the start of Mr Bush's presidency, his Government's Federal Emergency Management Agency (Fema) warned that a hurricane hitting New Orleans would be the deadliest of the three most likely catastrophes facing America; the others were a massive San Francisco earthquake and, prophetically, a terrorist attack on New York.

Fema's then director, the Bush appointee Joe Allbaugh, said that the warning caused him "great concern". But the President emasculated the agency, subsuming it into the Department of Homeland Security set up after the 11 September 2001 attacks, which concentrated on the terrorist threat.

This was only one of a series of warnings that predicted what happened last week, including the storm surges brought by the hurricane, the breaching of the levees, the floods covering the city, and the "toxic gumbo" of sewage, oil and chemicals.

Last year an emergency exercise run by the federal, Louisiana and New Orleans governments, featuring a fictional Hurricane Pam, almost exactly foretold the disaster now unfolding. But officials said plans to prepare for an actual catastrophe were abandoned because of cuts. Three years ago, another study concluded that a hurricane less intense than the one that has now hit New Orleans would flood most of the city; in 1998 a less severe one still, Georges, produced a 17ft wall of water.

"No one can say they did not see it coming," reported the The Times-Picayune from New Orleans this week. The newspaper published a five-part series predicting the disaster five years ago. Officials and experts last week wearily recalled their attempts to make the government take action. "It's frustrating to have planned, begged and pleaded that this could happen," said Walter Maestri, emergency management director of the now submerged Jefferson Parish. "They would say, 'Yeah, yeah, yeah.' Well it's here now."

Warnings stressed the inability of levees to resist a storm surge and the city's increasing vulnerability because of the destruction of natural defences. New Orleans is surrounded by 350 miles of levees - often flat, grass-covered embankments with parks and bicycle tracks - that were built soon after the city was founded in 1718. But tests have shown they are too low to withstand the water whipped up by even a category three hurricane, let alone a category four like Katrina. The levee at the 17th Street Canal, where the crucial breach took place, was particularly vulnerable, with part of it four feet lower than the rest.

Every four miles of marsh shrinks the storm surge by a foot. But the city has become more defenceless as the wetlands that protected it against the sea vanished at a rate of 25 square miles a year - that's one football field every quarter of an hour. The oil and gas industry has caused much of this loss, as have the levees themselves by flushing silt out to sea that used to replenish the Mississippi Delta. While the surges have risen, the city has sunk two feet in the past 60 years.

Natural and man-made defences have long been neglected. A 10-year plan to strengthen levees after a 1965 hurricane was never completed. But the skimping has worsened since President Bush's election, particularly after 11 September. Federal spending on flood control in south-east Louisiana has been cut by almost half since 2001, from $69m (?34.5m) per year to $36.5m. Funds for work at Lake Pontchartrain, the source of the flooding, have fallen by nearly two-thirds over three years, from $14.25m to $5.7m. As a result, work on New Orleans' east bank hurricane levees stopped last summer for the first time in 37 years.

The US Army Corps of Engineers, which maintains the levees, requested $27m this year for hurricane protection around the lake. President Bush tried to cut this to $3.9m, although Congress allowed $5.7m. The President also tried to cut $78m to improve drainage and prevent flooding in the city to $30m, though Congress passed $36.5m. A $14bn longer-term project to restore marshes was cut to $570m.

Plans to provide shelter for victims and evacuate the Superdome, started after last year's Hurricane Pam exercise, were abandoned. Eric Tolbert, chief of disaster response at Fema until last February, said this was because funding dried up. "What you are seeing is revealing weaknesses in the state, local and federal levels," he said last week. "They have been weakened by diversion into terrorism."

Mr Maestri, the Jefferson Parish emergency director, added: "It appears that money has been moved in the President's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq. I suppose that's the price we pay."

Result number: 174

Message Number 181897

Katrina: an article in today's Observer View Thread
Posted by Julie on 9/04/05 at 06:55


This article is very long and very good. It goes into the history of the levees and their collapse, the hurricane and its consequences, the current situation, and the political implications. I think it's well worth reading, so if you are interested, here is the link:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/katrina/story/0,16441,1562378,00.html
.

Result number: 175

Message Number 181893

Re: Life after Hurricane Katrina View Thread
Posted by Carole C in NOLA on 9/04/05 at 01:43

Donna, I'm in Metairie too. Where in Metairie do you live? From the satellite photos it looks like there are a lot of trees down in many parts of Metairie, that's for sure. Glad you got out! Turns out we are allowed to go back any time after Monday at 6 AM, after all. I still think we will wait for a few days, for the crowd to thin out, though. :)

Carole C

Result number: 176

Message Number 181884

More Thoughts View Thread
Posted by john h on 9/03/05 at 23:48

The following is a very interesting commentary re lack of preparedness. However, in my opinion one of the major limiting factors that the commentary ignores is the difficulty in obtaining public funding for vital but costly preventative expenditures.
Politicians are well aware of the type of visible expenditures that bring in votes. In fairness, many public works projects that are popular with voters are truly vital. But all too often, there are far more critical projects required that go unfunded because they won't have a visible, popular impact with the voters. (Think "pork barrel" !) We are all eager to curse politicians for ignoring the more vital capital expenditures but the voters are even more guilty. (Think recurring reelection of people like Sen Byrd, the "pork barrel" champion.)
From my own personal public works experience with both the Air Force and Riverside County, I know how difficult it is to successfully obtain funding approval for infrastructure repair, replacement or upgrades (water, sewage, electrical distribution, etc) The same holds true for major facility repair / replacements. Funds in any management hierarchy, be it government or private, are always limited. Conflicting demands compete for every dollar. Everyone wants high reliability of all infrastructure but few want to bear the costs required to assure that reliability. The most difficult management battles that I fought during my career were for capital funding to replace / repair antiquated / overloaded infrastructure..
Immediately following the catastrophic damage caused by Katrina, we all are appalled and perhaps outraged by the lack of preparation by government at all levels. Following this natural catastrophe, both government and private resources are now flowing freely to aid people and prevent further damage. However, six months from now will we still be willing to support the major initial and recurring preventative and precautionary public expenditures (our taxes) that are necessary to assure preparedness?
Bob Arnau

Result number: 177

Message Number 181870

Re: The worst View Thread
Posted by Dorothy on 9/03/05 at 18:36

john h/John H - You and I see many things differently and each of us is entitled to that in the U.S.A. On that point, I think we can agree. Perhaps we can allow each other our own opinions on other matters. What you call "pointing fingers" I call analysis and assessment and healthy - even imperative - criticism. We're starting to hear the usual talkers calling any criticism "pointing fingers" or "politicizing" it. It's a way to attempt to marginalize those who don't buy the party line, but as masterful as they are with “spin”, I doubt that they will be able to quell opinion and emotion on this, particularly on top of everything else this group has gotten this country into. You can be if you want to, but I am not a cheerleader for this administration and do not think they deserve even one “rah.”

I think it was already about at the 5-day mark after 9/11 or shortly thereafter, that astonishingly and bizarrely, the million-plus dollars was being promised to each and every survivor of those attacks, even though no such thing had happened with the Oklahoma City survivors or any other disaster and crime survivors. It was unprecedented – yet it has now created precedent. Why was that arrangement made with the 9/11 survivors? Do you think that any similar direct pay-out will go from other taxpayers to the Katrina survivors? Do you think it should? If so, why 9/ll and not Katrina? Why 9/11 and not Oklahoma City? Why 9/ll and not ANY other disaster??? Do you not think that the Katrina survivors will demand a similar treatment from the U.S. government, i.e. taxpayers?

Glad to hear that Ross Perot - whom I am amazed to say that I signed petitions for and voted for when he first came on the scene before it became apparent that his marbles had gone missing - was helpful to you and yours. Once upon a time, I thought Ross Perot was a breath of fresh air and a sign of hope, but that didn't last. You may recall what Ross Perot said and thought about George Bush, the first. It wasn’t a friendly, love-relationship. More than a few analysts at the time said that Ross Perot’s entire candidacy was prompted by his personal hatred for the Bush family and George senior in particular. Unfortunately, I don't think veterans should have to depend on the kindness of millionaires for aid and assistance, but glad Mr. Perot has been there for vets when needed. He has that over the Bush family. My first love died in Vietnam, John, but even before that, I did not think we should have been there - and I still do not think we should have been there. I doubt that we agree on that either, but your life was changed by that experience and so was mine in a different way. I would have gone to Canada with him but he wouldn't go.

Are you pleased with how this pseudo-militaristic administration has treated the veterans and current soldiers, sailors, guardsmen/women and marines, John? I suspect that only 300 Guard members are being removed from Iraq and sent to the U.S. delta area because they are stretched so thin there and too few here to do the legitimate duties of National Guard.

It is hard to believe that we have experienced two of the greatest disasters in our country's history: the attacks of 9/11 and this whole disaster in the south now - both of them under the leadership of what appears to be our most inept, least intelligent leaders with agendas that do not serve well the long-term health and well being of this nation. I just say: please, God, let us make it through these next three years with some semblance intact of the nation we love.

Not much was said when Admiral Stockton passed away recently, a man who always seemed to be genuinely honorable.

Result number: 178

Message Number 181868

Re: Life after Hurricane Katrina View Thread
Posted by DonnaO on 9/03/05 at 17:43

I live in Metairie, Louisiana. From what I hear, it sounds like my area may not be too bad. However,I am not going back for about a month because of what they where saying about violence. Thank God for the troops and others who are working to restore order. Where do you live in Louisiana? I hope your area is ok. I pray that New Orleans will recover. I will continue to pray for you and all the victims and their families. Good Luck to you.
DonnaO

Result number: 179

Message Number 181860

Re: Life after Hurricane Katrina View Thread
Posted by Carole C in NOLA on 9/03/05 at 16:39

Donna, where do you live in Louisiana? I live in Louisiana, too.

In 1975 I lived in Meridian for a year, and found there was a great need for good teachers there. Even without any education classes or teaching credential, I was able to find jobs teaching math, physics, and chemistry there at Meridian College (half time) and Lamar High School (2/3 time), within a month. I only stayed there a year, but got the impression that they were glad to have me and that I could pretty much write my own ticket. Of course, things may have changed in the past 30 years. :)

Carole C

Result number: 180

Message Number 181859

Re: Life after Hurricane Katrina View Thread
Posted by JudyS on 9/03/05 at 16:35

Donna - California is always in dire need of teachers. The only problem is the cost of living out here is tough to swallow for folks from the east/southeast.

If you feel like checking it out come on out (San Diego) and use up one of my guestrooms - love to have you!

Result number: 181

Message Number 181857

Re: Life after Hurricane Katrina View Thread
Posted by Suzanne D. on 9/03/05 at 16:03

Donna, I teach in Kentucky, and one thing I can tell you is that there is usually a critical shortage of special education teachers in our area. Our school district, and many around us, now are on an alternative schedule and started school a month ago, so I don't know of any vacancies here.

But I do know that every year there is a great need for special ed teachers at every grade level. There seems to be a high burn-out rate for these teachers who often change to teaching in regular classrooms. It is enough of a problem that many are now hired without a special education degree if they agree to obtain one while teaching. This can be done, for the most part, online with a college nearby, and the school district pays for the education to get them certified in special ed.

Most school districts have websites and list vacancies online. I wish you the best and will help in any way that I can.

Suzanne :)

Result number: 182

Message Number 181852

Re: Life after Hurricane Katrina View Thread
Posted by Tina H on 9/03/05 at 15:26

Donna, One place I would not go is Pittsburgh. This is one of the hardest job markets in education because there are something like 15 major teaching universities within a 50 mile radius and the market is saturated with teachers looking for work. I know I have triple certification in science, with all of my Praxis scores in the top 10%, experience teaching in HS and chemistry at the college level and it's taken me two years to secure a permanent position. In fact the position I accepted will be very challenging, 3 preps in an inner city, high poverty school. I'm hoping I can make a differance. When I was interviewing this past year, one administrator told me allegheny county PA is the most competitive in the country. He said even if you can go south 70 miles into WVa it's much easier to get a job. Good Luck, I'm sure it's hard to relocate but I bet there is a school some where that would love your experience. Tina

Result number: 183

Message Number 181850

Good Article View Thread
Posted by Dorothy on 9/03/05 at 14:54

Homeland Security won't let Red Cross deliver food
Saturday, September 03, 2005

By Ann Rodgers, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette



As the National Guard delivered food to the New Orleans convention center yesterday, American Red Cross officials said that federal emergency management authorities would not allow them to do the same.

Other relief agencies say the area is so damaged and dangerous that they doubted they could conduct mass feeding there now.

"The Homeland Security Department has requested and continues to request that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans," said Renita Hosler, spokeswoman for the Red Cross.

"Right now access is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities. We have been at the table every single day [asking for access]. We cannot get into New Orleans against their orders."

Calls to the Department of Homeland Security and its subagency, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, were not returned yesterday.

Though frustrated, Hosler understood the reasons. The goal is to move people out of an uninhabitable city, and relief operations might keep them there. Security is so bad that she fears feeding stations might get ransacked.

"It's not about fault and blame right now. The situation is like an hourglass, and we are in the smallest part right now. Everything is trying to get through it," she said. "They're trying to help people get out."

Obstacles in downtown New Orleans have stymied rescuers who got there. The Salvation Army has two of its officers trapped with more than 200 people -- three requiring dialysis -- in its own downtown building. They were alerted by a 30-second plea for food and water before the phone went dead.

On Wednesday, The Salvation Army rented three boats for a rescue operation. They knew the situation was desperate, and that their own people were inside, said Maj. Donna Hood, associate director of development for the Army.

"The boats couldn't get through," she said. Although she doesn't know the details, she believes huge debris and electrical wires made passage impossible.

"We have 51 emergency canteens on the ground in the other affected areas. But where the need is greatest, in downtown New Orleans, there just is no access. That is the problem every relief group is facing," she said.

"America is obviously going to have to rethink disaster relief," said Jim Burton, director of volunteer mobilization for the North American Mission Board of the Southern Baptist Convention.

The Southern Baptists, who work under the Red Cross logo, are one of the largest, best-equipped providers of volunteer disaster relief in the United States. Most hot meals for disaster victims are cooked by Southern Baptist mobile kitchen units. Burton is a veteran of many hurricanes.

"Right now everybody is looking at FEMA and pointing fingers. Frankly, I have to tell you, I'm sympathetic. When in your lifetime have we experienced this? Even though we all do disaster scenario planning, we have to accept the reality that this is an extraordinary event. This is America's tsunami, that struck and ravaged America's most disaster-vulnerable city," he said.

Because New Orleans remains under water, it is different from other cities where Katrina struck harder, but where relief efforts are proceeding normally. Agencies place workers and supplies outside disaster areas before storms, to move in quickly. But there are always delays, Burton said, because nothing is deployed until experts survey the damage and decide where to most effectively put relief services.

The Southern Baptists operate more than 30 mobile kitchens that can each produce 5,000 to 25,000 meals daily, as well as mobile showers and communications trucks equipped with ham radios and cell phones. They are supporting refugee centers in Texas and Tennessee, and doing relief in Mississippi and Alabama. They have placed mobile kitchens around New Orleans to feed people as they come out.

Initially they tried to drive a tractor-trailer kitchen into New Orleans from Tennessee. It was stopped by the Mississippi Highway Patrol because the causeway it would have to cross had been destroyed, Burton said.

His agency has planned for missing bridges. The Southern Baptists' worst-case planning is for reaching Memphis after an earthquake on the New Madrid fault, which in 1812 whiplashed at a stone-crushing 8.1 on the Richter scale. Burton envisions the Mississippi without bridges.

So when state and local Southern Baptists raise money to build a mobile kitchen, he tells them to design it to be hoisted in by helicopter.

After Katrina, he thought he would have to airlift a feeding unit to one isolated town, but a road was cleared, he said. He doubts that dropping a kitchen into the New Orleans' poisoned waters, filled with raw sewage, dead bodies and possible industrial contaminants, would do any good. It made sense to prepare meals outside the area and truck them in or bring people out.

"The most important thing is to get the people out of that environment," he said.

He expects unusual problems to continue, because victims of Katrina flooding will need emergency food for far longer than the usual week or so. He's planning on at least two months.

Like the military, relief work requires a supply chain. Because business management favors just-in-time inventory, rather than stockpiling goods in warehouses, there isn't a huge stock of food to draw on, he said.

"When you go into a local area, it doesn't take long to wipe out the local food inventories," he said.

The Red Cross serves pre-packaged food, including self-heating "HeaterMeals" and snacks, that require no preparation. Yesterday the Red Cross was running evacuation shelters in 16 states, and on Thursday, the last day for which totals were available, served 170,000 meals and snacks in 24 hours.

While emergency shelters typically empty out days after a hurricane or other natural disaster, in Katrina's case they are becoming more crowded, Hosler said. People who had evacuated to the homes of relatives or hotels are moving in because they're out of money or want to be closer to what is left of their homes.

Result number: 184

Message Number 181845

The commission View Thread
Posted by Ralph on 9/03/05 at 14:11

We all know the final great act of congress concerning this disaster will be their formation of "The Katrina Commission". Fifteen fools will sit in big leather chairs pointing fingers, posturing for votes, playing the race card and interview everyone under the sun.

When they finish they will have produced a 200,000 page document which will end up collect dust on a shelf somewhere.

Result number: 185

Message Number 181838

Scott R View Thread
Posted by Dorothy on 9/03/05 at 12:50

Scott R – You may already have found the resource information you were wondering about yesterday when I mentioned the “Dateline” site – but the following items are from ABC news:
There are also a number of Web sites dedicated to connecting survivors of Hurricane Katrina with their loved ones, including:
The Biloxi Sun Herald message board
www.hurricanekatrinasurvivors.com

MoveOn launched its hurricane housing site on Thursday afternoon, and within 25 hours received offers for 45,000 beds — 11,500 within driving distance of New Orleans, according to MoveOn president Eli Pariser.
"Basically we were just racking our brains trying to figure out how we could help our members provide some help for victims," said Pariser. "We have a direct line to 3 million people and there might be a lot who might be able to open up their homes."

The last item was from a news item ABC ran. MoveOn.org can be found on the web – www.MoveOn.org.

Result number: 186

Message Number 181833

Re: Life after Hurricane Katrina View Thread
Posted by john h on 9/03/05 at 12:24

They seem to always be a shortage of teachers in Little Rock. Phone the Pulaski County Human Resources (501-340-6110) as they should put you in touch with the right people. We are not that far from you and this is a nice city of 300,000 in the greater Little Rock area.

Result number: 187

Message Number 181827

Re: Life after Hurricane Katrina View Thread
Posted by marie on 9/03/05 at 11:31

Donna I teach in Ohio and live in Indiana. I teach in an excellent county. I can tell you now that our states are financially strapped. Lots of layoffs. Ohio pays substitutes well depending on the school district and they always need subs. Ohio's retirement and benefits are some of the most secure in the nation.

If you want more info let me know.

marie

Result number: 188

Message Number 181825

Life after Hurricane Katrina View Thread
Posted by DonnaO on 9/03/05 at 11:18

I live in Louisiana and was able to evacuate to Tuscaloosa. I want to thank everyone for their prayers and services during this time. I also want to say that I am praying for the safety of those who were not able to evacuate.
Since no one knows when we will be able to return to Louisiana, our lives, and jobs, I am looking at all of my options. I am an elementary school teacher and I am looking for information on the following:
1. Does anyone have info on good schools to teach/sub at in Tuscaloosa or Meridian?
2. I am considering relocating out of Louisiana. Does anyone have any opinions on good cities/states to reside in and schools that have a good reputation to teach at?

I want to keep all of my options open so I can be prepared.
Again, thank you for your prayers. I will continue to pray for all victims and their families. Take care.
DonnaO

Result number: 189

Message Number 181798

Re: Not so brave View Thread
Posted by Tina H on 9/03/05 at 07:44

Carol, I'm so sorry for you. All this time I thought NOLA was LA california. I've been praying for the victims of Katrina and will specifically pray for you and your family. Keep us posted. Tina

Result number: 190

Message Number 181792

Re: Katrina View Thread
Posted by Dorothy on 9/03/05 at 02:40

Scott R - I don't know the network that the TV program "Dateline" appears on, but "Dateline" has been doing nightly specials re. New Orleans, etc. and at the end of their program tonight they said that they had started a website to do exactly what you are asking about - providing a "bulletin board" and Q & A and "Looking for..." and so on site for people to post on. There are probably many others but this is one that I heard about tonight. Perhaps google "Dateline" for the website.

Result number: 191

Message Number 181790

Re: Katrina View Thread
Posted by Dorothy on 9/03/05 at 02:17

Amen to that! Dr. Ed, you're starting to get my vote over and over again!!

Result number: 192

Message Number 181788

Re: Katrina View Thread
Posted by Ed Davis, DPM on 9/03/05 at 01:05

Judy:
I am glad to hear that. You, in San Diego are closer georaphically and in climate to NOLA. The Northwest, where I live, at times, has a tendency to "wall itself off" as we view Vancouver, BC, Portland, Oregon and San Francisco as "sister" cities. I was born in Los Angeles, moved to New Jersey when I was 5 years old, growing up in Atlantic City, went to college in NJ, residency in Washington, D.C. where I learned more than I would like to know about how our bureaucracy works from a former girlfriend, then was "stationed" in rural West Virigina in "federal service" in the National Health Service Corps. where I saw poverty and isolation that the media rarely shows. I then moved on to open a practice in Charleston, WV shere I practiced for 5.5 years.

I had always yearned to return to the West coast so I sold my practice in Charleston, WV and came to Orange County in 1992 where I met my future wife. We both wanted to start a family but were disturbed by certain things about Southern California despite its beauty. We looked up and down the coast and settled in the Seattle area where we had our first child in 1996 who is a boy and twin girls in 1999.

So I have lived in 5 states. Seattle is a beautiful city but can be very isolated both geographically and psychologically at times. There is no perfect place to live; every place has its share of problems. It is up to all of us to make the best of things wherever we are.
Ed

Result number: 193

Message Number 181787

Re: Katrina View Thread
Posted by Ed Davis, DPM on 9/03/05 at 00:45

Ralph:
Finger pointing is the worst thing to do at this point. Nevertheless, a long chain of individuals in government will have a lot of explaining to do.
Ed

Result number: 194

Message Number 181784

Re: Katrina View Thread
Posted by john h on 9/02/05 at 23:17

There has never been any question that we should develop new energy sources since the embargo. In my mind there has never been any question we should have never stopped developing refineries and opening new oil fields and building more nuclear plants. If this nation is to survive in the long run we need some action now for it takes a decade to bring any of these things on line. There will always be groups who will oppose these things. I was thinking today as the bus full of antiwar protesters rolled through Little Rock that their plush mobile home probably gets 3-mpg and holds around 150 gallons. That will be about $600 per fill up as it crisis crosses the nation. Wonder how much fuel they are using. We will never again see $1.30 fuel so forget that. I wish I had my old VW back but it would not pass emission standards.

Result number: 195

Message Number 181783

Re: Katrina View Thread
Posted by Ed Davis, DPM on 9/02/05 at 23:17

john:
Pres. Bush sent naval ships from Virginia to NOLA late Monday night. They still have not arrived. The National Guard has been drawn down due to duties in Iraq.
Ed

Result number: 196

Message Number 181781

Re: Katrina View Thread
Posted by john h on 9/02/05 at 23:06

Ed: I could not believe my ears. The President or Congress just made it possible to use the same gas in all states rather than 50 different blends!!!!! I heard it on TV so it must be true. I just sold a large facility 3 days ago to a large company who lays gas pipe for Centerpoint Entergy all the way down into La,Ms,Tx. I suspect this company will be busy for years to come. Our losses are horrendous but that being said New Orleans will have to be rebuilt or a new New Orleans built. Tens of thousands of jobs will be created for many years to come. We will have learned some valuable lessons we should never forget. Politicians will not change unfortunately. They never do and that goes for all parties. Good people will still be good people and the crappy people will continue to be crappy people. I am of the opinion we should build a new New Orleans above sea level but that is just my pipe dream. The rich will still build their homes on Martha's Vinyard and Cape Cod and the barrier islands. The houses will be blown away again and again and in the end taxpayer will often subsidize the rebuilding.

The first C-130 arrived in Little Rock today with the sick and injured for our hospitals. We have set up shelters around the city and people are coming. Some say they will never go back. One guy said "it is my own dam fault" as he had a car and could have left. The Gulf Coast has been a summer playground for me and my family for 40 years as it is only a 10 hour drive. I was stationed at Biloxi (Keesler AFB). I do not know when we shall go back. Hurricanes hit this area every year but nothing like this. In my life I have Commanded a C-130 Air Rescue Squadron and 4 Air Rescue Helicopter Detachments and been involved in two wars and many rescues in the states. I thought I had seen it all. Clearly I had not seen it all. I have had to pickup body parts of crash victims and the dead floating in rivers, combat wounded and casualties and I was able to do it with some detachment. Men never like to say they cry but I must confess I have been brought to tears by just watching TV. With all the human suffering I guess I should not be troubled by the pets. Today a woman was refused to board a bus with her little pet poodle she had for 9 years. That was all she had. She could not take it. The camera showed it looking lost in the crowd. This all really sucks and brings out both the best and the worst in humanity.

Result number: 197

Message Number 181776

Re: gasoline supply? View Thread
Posted by JudyS on 9/02/05 at 21:11

John, as usual you have been very eloquent and tactful with your post here and I thank you for that.

It has prompted me to say my bit and then, like you, say no more.



I WILL NOT 'bow my head in shame' of the leadership of my country.

I am ashamed only of those in this country who are opportunistically using this horrible tragedy to further their own political agendas.

The last thing we need right now is finger-pointing. Especially by those who are not professionals and have absolutely no way of knowing what the relief-giving methodology is in a tremendous tragedy such as this one or if it's being followed. We don't know! Bobby Kennedy doesn't know! We have seen agencies from local police to FEMA respond to many, many disasters in the past and we have never questioned them before - in fact, we've praised them!

I do not doubt for a SECOND that agencies from FEMA on down are doing their utmost to get aid to New Orleans.

Some facts are this: It was impossible for relief providers to access the city of New Orleans in the first 48 hours of flooding. No roads, no airports! (ARC: "Relief efforts have further been hampered by massive infrastructure failure as roadways are damaged or blocked, and electricity is expected to remain out for several weeks.)

And NO WAY of judging how many thousands of people chose to stay in their homes.

Helicoptors were utilized as immediately as possible. Trucks with supplies hit the roads as immediately as possible. This disaster grew and grew and grew and so has mobilization of help.

And why in the name of God did so many people stay? I know exactly how callous I sound but I'm not buying the excuse that they had no money to leave. Excepting the helpless elderly, I know that any responsible person who knows for days ahead of time that a force five hurricane is headed at his/her family would WALK out if they had to! There were shelters in addition to the Superdome that were available for pre-hurricane evacuees. I am sad, very sad, that so many people lost their lives or loved ones as a result of that decision but Dear Lord it was preventable! And now those same folks are screaming that the Feds aren't doing enough!

I just watched an interview of a New Orleans woman who couldn't find her mother. Her mother is legally blind and diabetic. I want to know why that woman didn't get her mother out of NO when she had the chance.

Many helicoptors COULD NOT land and dispense their relief loads because of the human animals with only violence on their minds waiting in the roads. Those same 'animals' would surely prevent those supplies from reaching the people who needed them.

I want specifics here. What EXACTLY should the authorities be doing differently? Exactly? We all know that all levels of govt. have trained methodologies for providing aid and relief. Those methodologies have been followed successfully many, many times for many, many years. How do any of us know that they are not being followed now?

The problem here is the magnitude of the disaster. Everyone wants relief within minutes of the disaster but that's just not realistic. We all feel helpless so we can't grasp the fact that we don't necessarily have the power to deal with a tragedy of this magnitude within hours of it's occurance. We are such a powerful culture that we think a happy ending is always available within minutes.

Wanna blame somebody? Blame Katrina. Blame folks who should have gotten out. Blame the hoodlums in the streets. Blame fate. But don't blame the thousands of relief workers who are going at 120% to get aid to these victims - and don't blame their leaders. They are professionals, they know what they're doing and THEY don't particularly want the residents still in NO to suffer!

As I said, I will not hang my head in shame. I am proud of the thousands of workers, from the President's office on down, who are determined to do their jobs and do them as well as they've been trained to do in spite of the opportunistic finger-pointing and media frenzy.

Last, I don't believe the city of New Orleans is lost. I believe it will come back stronger than ever. I believe it will choose to stay where it's roots are. Where it is is part of what makes it beautiful and charming. Water is very damaging but it does not necessarily destroy buildings. They may choose to build higher up off the ground or create a Venice-like canal system or make their levees stronger but I'm willing to bet they'll stay put.

The Spirit of New Orleans will never die and there are plenty of strong folks there right now, as opposed to the hoodlums, who will make sure the city survives.

I am sick at heart that folks (leaders!) in this country sieze on this tragic moment to point fingers. And the issue is commpletely along party lines! That should tell us something.

I simply WILL NOT believe that every effort possible isn't being made by the people trained to do so.

Result number: 198

Message Number 181775

Re: Katrina View Thread
Posted by Ralph on 9/02/05 at 21:04

John,
I agree with you about the news media stirring the pot and playing the race card. For them everything boils down to future votes. I didn't see one of them handing any money to the people in the streets. I didn't see one of them so much as give a bottle of water to anyone or a peanut butter sandwich and they were there. Instead they sucked their microphones and cut short any interview that wasn't exactly what they wanted to hear.

N.O. was put under water by an act of God. It will certainly take the same magnitude of power to return things normal.

The question remains: If they rebuild will would they be better prepared the next time?

Result number: 199

Message Number 181772

Re: Katrina View Thread
Posted by Ed Davis, DPM on 9/02/05 at 20:58

Oh, and one more thing. Vote for me for President in 2008 and I will clean things up.
Ed

PS I am not really nuts just very p-ssed off and fed up with the status quo.
Ed

Result number: 200

Message Number 181771

Re: Katrina View Thread
Posted by Ed Davis, DPM on 9/02/05 at 20:53

One more thing. I lease a 2003 Audi A6 because it is one of the few family cars other than Subaru with all wheel drive which is helpful on the wet slippery mountain roads of Washington State. It has an electrical problem every 2 to 3 months, another piece of cr-p that I want to get rid of. My other vehicle is a 1999 American made Chevy S-10 pickup truck. Just fill it with gas, change the oil and it never breaks down. Lets bring industry back to America again.
Ed

Result number: 201

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