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Research in pf from Denmark, hope for some?

Posted by Per, DK on 8/12/99 at 08:32 (009656)

Hello fellow pf-sufferers.

I´ve had the damn thing for 3 years, and it has been debilitating for 3 months now.
Now I only got the following info second-hand, but I think you would like to hear it anyway.
I´ve herassed a lot of people from the medical society i Denmark, and finally found that 2 doctors had made a quite thorough research mostly on SPORTS-RELATED foot-problems.
Particular if you have done sports where you have landed heavily on your heals, you might have 'punctured your heal-fatcells'. Check this by pressing semihard directly on the middle of your heal and compare to a healthy person. My healbone is comparably easy to reach, and the fat under the foot quite easily goes to the sides of the foot.

Now these doctors have corresponded with a guy who makes costum-insoles to compensate for this and he says that he has never treated a person with this kind of problem (even counting torture-victims who has been beat under the foot!; poor devils) he hasn´t been able to treat.... But if I had a cured foot for every doctor who said this... anyway, he seem quite trustworthy on account of his knowledge on the subject.
Now to the alleged cure: The essense of the insole is - apart from correcting other anomalies that might enhance the problem - is 'cupping' the foot so that the fat doesn´t go to the sides when you step. Also, I walked over a 'press o-meter' enabling the insole man to presicely analyse my step. The inlayer also has carved out a lot of matereal direcly under the fascit.
Alternatively, but not as effectfully, you can tape your heal so the fat doesn´t splatter out. I will learn this tomorrow, and if it works, I will post instructions in a week or so.
The insoleguy says that the treatment will take quite a while to treat this way (months), but I will - of course - keep you posted on whether this promising treatment actually works for me. If it works, we will have to find out whether orthopædic guys in USA/UK/Canada can do this (there must be), so you won´t all have to travel back and forth to Denmark for making and adjusting the insole.
Hell this might all turn out to be a dead-end, but the hope of a cure alone makes my mood a lot lighter; I hope it does yours to.

Keep up the spirits

Love, Per



Re: Research in pf from Denmark, hope for some?

joan on 8/12/99 at 12:28 (009667)

Thanks for an interesting post, Per. I too have fat pad atrophy ( on my left foot). I am interested in hearing more from you. One line in your post confused me--'The inlayer also has carved out a lot of material directly under the fascit'--could you please explain this in another way for me? Thank you and good luck!

Re: Research in pf from Denmark, hope for some?

Per, DK on 8/12/99 at 15:04 (009674)

Hello Joan.

Thanks for the kind reply.

What I meant with the line was that the orthotic has a deepening just under where it hurts (in front of heal and on the inside for most of us i guess) so that I won´t step directly on it. Hope that way of saying it makes more sense;... else ask again.
Another thing you might be interested in hearing was that orthotic-guy told me another reason why people might have healspur (with or without heal pad atrophy): Your gait might cause an un-natural (twisting, for instance) strain on the ligament (maybe - for instance - overpronating, as Scotts very good page suggest). Exactly how you strain your ligament while walking is also supposedly - and reasonably - diagnosable from the 'pressure-o-meter' he had.
He also said that if you have one or both of the above conditions, eating right, physical therapy, akkupuncture, thinking positive thoughts, massage, among others is just SYMPTOM-treatment, not CURING treatment. So it while these might be good for releving pain while you wait for your adequate orhotic to work, they won´t get you anywhere on their own. This also makes sense in my head.

Love, Per


Re: Research in pf from Denmark, hope for some?

joan on 8/12/99 at 17:00 (009677)

Per--I agree with the need to address both symptoms AND an ultimate cure. May it happen for us all!

Re: Research in pf from Denmark, hope for some?

The taping really seems to work! on 8/14/99 at 06:07 (009736)

Dear Joan, Lori and other sorefooters:

I learned a new heelpad-atropy taping tecnique yesterday, and it really seems to work. Now this may be a bit premature, as I have only been doing it for 2 days now, but the foot seems much better, and well rested in the morning and during the day. So I thought - in case you would like to experiment yourself (I would!), that I´d try to explain how it works.
The taping tecnique is aparently developed by doctors connected to elite-sportsmen/woman in Norway, and with good results (so I hope they don´t mind me leaking this).

The taping effectively hinders the heelfat to splatter to the sides when you walk/stand/run and gives the tissue rest, and probably a better type of strain on the fascie.

Now to the tricky part; the taping instructions:

Use wide non-elastic sports tape. Mine is 1½ inches but i guess 1 inch might work as well if you are smaller than me (I use size 11½ shoes).

The first 'ANCHOR'-piece should go around the back of the heel to the middle of the foot on both sides. The bottom of the tape should be just above (1 to 3 milimeters;... 1/20-1/10 of an inch) the ground at the heel when you stand up, and follow the side of the foot straight towards your toes. The top of it musn´t go up and touch the start of the achilles-tendon, or it might cause trouble there as well.

Now SEVERAL SHORT pieces (6-10) go across the heel up to the top part of the anchor tape on both sides. Now the next is extremely important: The accross pieces shall be employed really tight; pull them strongly before you fasten the on the other side (maybe a 3-5 kg/6-10 pound pull?). Dont go further down the foot with the accross pieces than 1 inch or so away from the heel toward the toes);... its only the heel we want to encapsule.

Lastly: The SECOND ANCHOR-piece goes on top of the first, but a little bit above (about 2-4 milimeters) to fasten all the ends of the accross-pieces.

Thats it. Its not as difficult to do as it may sound. When you stand up, you will notice that you are 1/4-1/8 inch taller than usual, becauce the heelfat stays under the foot; now this has to be good news to the foot or what? A word of caution: Don´t use tape when you don´t need to, or you might catch tape-allergy from wearing it to much (I once did).

Be patient though: The taping brings some imediate releif to an extend, but more thorough healing might still take months.

Keep me posted on how its working out for you, and good luck.

My orhopædic divice, employing the same philosophy as the taping, hasn´t arrived yet (19/8 is the day) so no news there.

Love:

Per

To Lori: I also have a funny walk, mine is probably from not rotating enough in the hip-area. If this is your problem to (it sounds like it from your description), try stretching the iliopsoid muscle A LOT (and also other hip-area muscles) as this might give you a more natural gait (according to my layman-calculations). Adequate Orhotics seem to me to be a better solution though, but who knows.




Re: Research in pf from Denmark, hope for some?

joan on 8/12/99 at 12:28 (009667)

Thanks for an interesting post, Per. I too have fat pad atrophy ( on my left foot). I am interested in hearing more from you. One line in your post confused me--'The inlayer also has carved out a lot of material directly under the fascit'--could you please explain this in another way for me? Thank you and good luck!

Re: Research in pf from Denmark, hope for some?

Per, DK on 8/12/99 at 15:04 (009674)

Hello Joan.

Thanks for the kind reply.

What I meant with the line was that the orthotic has a deepening just under where it hurts (in front of heal and on the inside for most of us i guess) so that I won´t step directly on it. Hope that way of saying it makes more sense;... else ask again.
Another thing you might be interested in hearing was that orthotic-guy told me another reason why people might have healspur (with or without heal pad atrophy): Your gait might cause an un-natural (twisting, for instance) strain on the ligament (maybe - for instance - overpronating, as Scotts very good page suggest). Exactly how you strain your ligament while walking is also supposedly - and reasonably - diagnosable from the 'pressure-o-meter' he had.
He also said that if you have one or both of the above conditions, eating right, physical therapy, akkupuncture, thinking positive thoughts, massage, among others is just SYMPTOM-treatment, not CURING treatment. So it while these might be good for releving pain while you wait for your adequate orhotic to work, they won´t get you anywhere on their own. This also makes sense in my head.

Love, Per


Re: Research in pf from Denmark, hope for some?

joan on 8/12/99 at 17:00 (009677)

Per--I agree with the need to address both symptoms AND an ultimate cure. May it happen for us all!

Re: Research in pf from Denmark, hope for some?

The taping really seems to work! on 8/14/99 at 06:07 (009736)

Dear Joan, Lori and other sorefooters:

I learned a new heelpad-atropy taping tecnique yesterday, and it really seems to work. Now this may be a bit premature, as I have only been doing it for 2 days now, but the foot seems much better, and well rested in the morning and during the day. So I thought - in case you would like to experiment yourself (I would!), that I´d try to explain how it works.
The taping tecnique is aparently developed by doctors connected to elite-sportsmen/woman in Norway, and with good results (so I hope they don´t mind me leaking this).

The taping effectively hinders the heelfat to splatter to the sides when you walk/stand/run and gives the tissue rest, and probably a better type of strain on the fascie.

Now to the tricky part; the taping instructions:

Use wide non-elastic sports tape. Mine is 1½ inches but i guess 1 inch might work as well if you are smaller than me (I use size 11½ shoes).

The first 'ANCHOR'-piece should go around the back of the heel to the middle of the foot on both sides. The bottom of the tape should be just above (1 to 3 milimeters;... 1/20-1/10 of an inch) the ground at the heel when you stand up, and follow the side of the foot straight towards your toes. The top of it musn´t go up and touch the start of the achilles-tendon, or it might cause trouble there as well.

Now SEVERAL SHORT pieces (6-10) go across the heel up to the top part of the anchor tape on both sides. Now the next is extremely important: The accross pieces shall be employed really tight; pull them strongly before you fasten the on the other side (maybe a 3-5 kg/6-10 pound pull?). Dont go further down the foot with the accross pieces than 1 inch or so away from the heel toward the toes);... its only the heel we want to encapsule.

Lastly: The SECOND ANCHOR-piece goes on top of the first, but a little bit above (about 2-4 milimeters) to fasten all the ends of the accross-pieces.

Thats it. Its not as difficult to do as it may sound. When you stand up, you will notice that you are 1/4-1/8 inch taller than usual, becauce the heelfat stays under the foot; now this has to be good news to the foot or what? A word of caution: Don´t use tape when you don´t need to, or you might catch tape-allergy from wearing it to much (I once did).

Be patient though: The taping brings some imediate releif to an extend, but more thorough healing might still take months.

Keep me posted on how its working out for you, and good luck.

My orhopædic divice, employing the same philosophy as the taping, hasn´t arrived yet (19/8 is the day) so no news there.

Love:

Per

To Lori: I also have a funny walk, mine is probably from not rotating enough in the hip-area. If this is your problem to (it sounds like it from your description), try stretching the iliopsoid muscle A LOT (and also other hip-area muscles) as this might give you a more natural gait (according to my layman-calculations). Adequate Orhotics seem to me to be a better solution though, but who knows.