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Lower Back Problems and PF

Posted by Nancy T. on 9/04/99 at 00:00 (010639)

I started with PF approximately two months ago directly after a horrible bout of sciatica, which I have never had before. This week I found out that my SI joint was out in lower back, which I had 'rearranged' yesterday but a PT. I will be curious to see if any foot pain decreases once this is healed. Anyone had any similiar experience and has anyone been able to tie in their PF with lower back problems?

Re: Lower Back Problems and PF

wendy2 on 9/04/99 at 00:00 (010641)

Interesting Nancy...you and I seem to be running (ha ha) into a lot of the same problems. I have had problems with sciatica as well. Last week new doctor xrayed my lower back and there is something going on with my 'SI joints' as well. I would suspect that what they will find is that because of the funny way I walk (I walk like a duck)...I have probably caused a lot of damage over the years to my back. The doctors however, have not yet decided whether my back is causing my foot pain - or if my feet are causing the back pain. I have had discomfort (but not 'pain') in my lower back for years...but of course now that someone has pointed out there really is something wrong there - I am more aware of it than I was before. Perfect.

I had an extensive series of bone scans done this week - will keep you posted on what they find. Maybe once they get the whole story we can start working on a solution?

I havefound that in my case - when my foot hurts, I limp more, and this in turn aggravates my back. Guess we'll see what the pictures show. I think I may go into medicine as a second career - I seem to spend most of my time reading medical sites and talking to doctors anyway.....


Re: Lower Back Problems and PF

Nancy T. on 9/05/99 at 00:00 (010646)

Wendy: Very Interesting!!!!The PT that I went to yesterday actually put the left SI joint back manually.(Not Fun!) I originally went to him for PF, and he hasn't even gotten to them yet. He stated to me as I left his office that my feet might just calm down after this joint was put back. Most ortho's do not think that the SI joint can be moved out of place, as mine is/was. But...I am hear to tell you that it can. It was knocked out of place about 3 years ago by someone hitting me broadside while I was in the drivers seat. I have been doing really well until all of this came down on me. I go back Wednesday again, so I will keep you posted. We certainly seem to parallel one another, Wendy. Please keep me posted also. I am ABSOLUTELY convinced that PF comes from some-sort of lower back problem, be it disk or otherwise. For me, it seems that the PF followed the sciatica, which I had never had before. (and pray I don't again!).The SI problem followed the PF! We really should start some sort of society and impart our great wisdom to others! Keep in touch, Wendy

Re: Lower Back Problems and PF

Kara on 9/05/99 at 00:00 (010664)

YES! I also have a form of sciatica, 'piriformis syndrome' not caused by out of place disk, but by the piriformis muscle that gets tight and chokes the sciatic nerve.
My massage therapist is convinced one cause the other (sciatica and PF) I remember the PF started in the summer of 96, and then I broke my hip, and then the sciatica followed starting in May of 97, now they just pay me a visit from time to time making my life misery.
I was just diagnosed with both recently by my massage therapist and I am so thankful that someone finally cares enough to help me figure out how to control this through stretching and massage. Every doctor before would either say it's all in my head, or just treat the symptoms, not the problems.
So Yes, I think for some people, sciatica is definatly linked to PF, it's good to know there are others out there. Though it does suck, because in my opinion, when I have a flare up of sciatica, it's TEN TIMES worse than PF, at least you can sit with PF, with sciatica, EVERYTHING hurts, sleeping, sitting, moving, driving, etc.
Anyway, Good luck with ya'll pain
kara

Re: Lower Back Problems and PF- here's my theory

pete on 9/06/99 at 00:00 (010703)

i think that low back and pf are related but not directly. i think in many cases, the thing that causes pf and low back pain are the same thing. that is, tight calves (gastrocs and soleus), tight achilles, and (more related probably to just the back) tight hamstrings. i think also some people's pelvis gets tilted a little forward (anteriorly) which also contributes to back pain, and pf. basically, all of the above change the way you walk (causing pf) and back pain, and also puts stress on the back causing back pain. therefore, i don't think pf causes back pain, or back pain causes pf, but rather, tightness all up the back of the legs, and pelvic mal alignment aggrevate both pf and back pain.

Re: Lower Back Problems and PF- here's my theory-To Pete

Nancy T. on 9/06/99 at 00:00 (010705)

Probably a good theory, Pete. I had a twisted pelvis from an auto accident some three years ago, and had it 'put back in place' manually
by a PT at that time. The connection is DEFINITELY there. There is such a fine balance between all of the tendons, ligiments, etc. that has to be maintained in order to prevent a 'cascading' effect on other parts of your body. At any rate, this PF 'thing' is nothing to laugh about.

Re: Lower Back Problems and PF- here's my theory

Kara on 9/07/99 at 00:00 (010718)

I agree as well Pete, Before I started concentrating on balancing my body with gravity, I had severe sway-back and Knock knees. I have had a really hard time stretching muscles in my ankels and some of my back leg muscles are very weak, or working overly too hard to compensate. I'm told the piriformis syndrome (sciatica) will always be with me, that it would have shown it's ugly face at some point (usually when a woman becomes pregnant). But the other things can be fixed! It is a long process, but I am standing taller, stretching longer, and feeling a lot better than I ever have before, I just find it hard to believe that it has taken THIS Long for someone to properly diagnose me!!!
Kara

Re: Lower Back Problems and PF-Theory confirmed!

Nancy T. on 9/10/99 at 00:00 (010824)

I came from my third visit to PT today. I was given a referral by my Ortho Surgeon for the PF last week, and am amazed at the 'trickle down' effect I have and am experiencing. First of all, my SI joint was totally not moving as freely as it should have been( this is third time since auto accident 3 years ago), and was put back where it belongs manually, which is not pleasant. Secondly, one of the facets at lower back was heading north instead of south, and was put back on Wednesday of this week. All of this has caused my walking to be off gait, which the PT says has caused the PF that I now have. On Wednesday I walked out of his office with taped ankles, which is now forcing my body to walk heel to toe properly. (Looks great....:))I was re taped again today, and my pain level is down approx. 50%. Tape stays on until Sunday, when I am to remove it until visit next week. PT does not want me to do any 'wall pushes' until then for fear of starting back problem up again, but does want me to do back strengthening exercises for the lower back. Although I know now that there are many causes to PF, for me lower back problems were the beginning of it all. Just thought that I would advise those who are interested not to overlook your lower back in trying to get to the root of this problem.The lower back problems certainly have a 'cascading' effect on the rest of your body, ie: hips, legs, ankles and feet. It is my hope that once I can get everything back where it belongs, my PF will become just a nightmare.

Re: Lower Back Problems and PF

Ivy L on 9/11/99 at 00:00 (010847)

I find this interesting. Back in 94-95 I had a nasty bout with sciatica, which didn't clear up until I started doing the exercises (especially the ones that stretch the piriformus -- OUCH!). When the symptoms subsided, so did my dedication to the exercises. Then, about a year or so ago, I started having symptoms of PF... I'm really wondering what the connection may be, since the past couple of days, I've had lower back pain, similar but not identical to my experience with sciatica...

Re: Lower Back Problems and PF

Nancy T. on 9/11/99 at 00:00 (010861)

Iris: I just got over a bout of sciatic July, which led to the discovery of PF. All sciatica pain went after 5 weeks, except for heel pain, which was then diagnosed as PF. Apparently I have been walking oddly for a year or so, when I began to have leg cramps unrelated to exercise. In my mind, there is DEFINITELY some connection here, and I strongly urge those who suffer from any kind of lower back problems to go to a PT and try to get to the possible root of the problem. I have been in PT for two weeks (again) and see a definite difference. Pain reduction is 50%.

Re: Lower Back Problems and PF

wendy2 on 9/04/99 at 00:00 (010641)

Interesting Nancy...you and I seem to be running (ha ha) into a lot of the same problems. I have had problems with sciatica as well. Last week new doctor xrayed my lower back and there is something going on with my 'SI joints' as well. I would suspect that what they will find is that because of the funny way I walk (I walk like a duck)...I have probably caused a lot of damage over the years to my back. The doctors however, have not yet decided whether my back is causing my foot pain - or if my feet are causing the back pain. I have had discomfort (but not 'pain') in my lower back for years...but of course now that someone has pointed out there really is something wrong there - I am more aware of it than I was before. Perfect.

I had an extensive series of bone scans done this week - will keep you posted on what they find. Maybe once they get the whole story we can start working on a solution?

I havefound that in my case - when my foot hurts, I limp more, and this in turn aggravates my back. Guess we'll see what the pictures show. I think I may go into medicine as a second career - I seem to spend most of my time reading medical sites and talking to doctors anyway.....


Re: Lower Back Problems and PF

Nancy T. on 9/05/99 at 00:00 (010646)

Wendy: Very Interesting!!!!The PT that I went to yesterday actually put the left SI joint back manually.(Not Fun!) I originally went to him for PF, and he hasn't even gotten to them yet. He stated to me as I left his office that my feet might just calm down after this joint was put back. Most ortho's do not think that the SI joint can be moved out of place, as mine is/was. But...I am hear to tell you that it can. It was knocked out of place about 3 years ago by someone hitting me broadside while I was in the drivers seat. I have been doing really well until all of this came down on me. I go back Wednesday again, so I will keep you posted. We certainly seem to parallel one another, Wendy. Please keep me posted also. I am ABSOLUTELY convinced that PF comes from some-sort of lower back problem, be it disk or otherwise. For me, it seems that the PF followed the sciatica, which I had never had before. (and pray I don't again!).The SI problem followed the PF! We really should start some sort of society and impart our great wisdom to others! Keep in touch, Wendy

Re: Lower Back Problems and PF

Kara on 9/05/99 at 00:00 (010664)

YES! I also have a form of sciatica, 'piriformis syndrome' not caused by out of place disk, but by the piriformis muscle that gets tight and chokes the sciatic nerve.
My massage therapist is convinced one cause the other (sciatica and PF) I remember the PF started in the summer of 96, and then I broke my hip, and then the sciatica followed starting in May of 97, now they just pay me a visit from time to time making my life misery.
I was just diagnosed with both recently by my massage therapist and I am so thankful that someone finally cares enough to help me figure out how to control this through stretching and massage. Every doctor before would either say it's all in my head, or just treat the symptoms, not the problems.
So Yes, I think for some people, sciatica is definatly linked to PF, it's good to know there are others out there. Though it does suck, because in my opinion, when I have a flare up of sciatica, it's TEN TIMES worse than PF, at least you can sit with PF, with sciatica, EVERYTHING hurts, sleeping, sitting, moving, driving, etc.
Anyway, Good luck with ya'll pain
kara

Re: Lower Back Problems and PF- here's my theory

pete on 9/06/99 at 00:00 (010703)

i think that low back and pf are related but not directly. i think in many cases, the thing that causes pf and low back pain are the same thing. that is, tight calves (gastrocs and soleus), tight achilles, and (more related probably to just the back) tight hamstrings. i think also some people's pelvis gets tilted a little forward (anteriorly) which also contributes to back pain, and pf. basically, all of the above change the way you walk (causing pf) and back pain, and also puts stress on the back causing back pain. therefore, i don't think pf causes back pain, or back pain causes pf, but rather, tightness all up the back of the legs, and pelvic mal alignment aggrevate both pf and back pain.

Re: Lower Back Problems and PF- here's my theory-To Pete

Nancy T. on 9/06/99 at 00:00 (010705)

Probably a good theory, Pete. I had a twisted pelvis from an auto accident some three years ago, and had it 'put back in place' manually
by a PT at that time. The connection is DEFINITELY there. There is such a fine balance between all of the tendons, ligiments, etc. that has to be maintained in order to prevent a 'cascading' effect on other parts of your body. At any rate, this PF 'thing' is nothing to laugh about.

Re: Lower Back Problems and PF- here's my theory

Kara on 9/07/99 at 00:00 (010718)

I agree as well Pete, Before I started concentrating on balancing my body with gravity, I had severe sway-back and Knock knees. I have had a really hard time stretching muscles in my ankels and some of my back leg muscles are very weak, or working overly too hard to compensate. I'm told the piriformis syndrome (sciatica) will always be with me, that it would have shown it's ugly face at some point (usually when a woman becomes pregnant). But the other things can be fixed! It is a long process, but I am standing taller, stretching longer, and feeling a lot better than I ever have before, I just find it hard to believe that it has taken THIS Long for someone to properly diagnose me!!!
Kara

Re: Lower Back Problems and PF-Theory confirmed!

Nancy T. on 9/10/99 at 00:00 (010824)

I came from my third visit to PT today. I was given a referral by my Ortho Surgeon for the PF last week, and am amazed at the 'trickle down' effect I have and am experiencing. First of all, my SI joint was totally not moving as freely as it should have been( this is third time since auto accident 3 years ago), and was put back where it belongs manually, which is not pleasant. Secondly, one of the facets at lower back was heading north instead of south, and was put back on Wednesday of this week. All of this has caused my walking to be off gait, which the PT says has caused the PF that I now have. On Wednesday I walked out of his office with taped ankles, which is now forcing my body to walk heel to toe properly. (Looks great....:))I was re taped again today, and my pain level is down approx. 50%. Tape stays on until Sunday, when I am to remove it until visit next week. PT does not want me to do any 'wall pushes' until then for fear of starting back problem up again, but does want me to do back strengthening exercises for the lower back. Although I know now that there are many causes to PF, for me lower back problems were the beginning of it all. Just thought that I would advise those who are interested not to overlook your lower back in trying to get to the root of this problem.The lower back problems certainly have a 'cascading' effect on the rest of your body, ie: hips, legs, ankles and feet. It is my hope that once I can get everything back where it belongs, my PF will become just a nightmare.

Re: Lower Back Problems and PF

Ivy L on 9/11/99 at 00:00 (010847)

I find this interesting. Back in 94-95 I had a nasty bout with sciatica, which didn't clear up until I started doing the exercises (especially the ones that stretch the piriformus -- OUCH!). When the symptoms subsided, so did my dedication to the exercises. Then, about a year or so ago, I started having symptoms of PF... I'm really wondering what the connection may be, since the past couple of days, I've had lower back pain, similar but not identical to my experience with sciatica...

Re: Lower Back Problems and PF

Nancy T. on 9/11/99 at 00:00 (010861)

Iris: I just got over a bout of sciatic July, which led to the discovery of PF. All sciatica pain went after 5 weeks, except for heel pain, which was then diagnosed as PF. Apparently I have been walking oddly for a year or so, when I began to have leg cramps unrelated to exercise. In my mind, there is DEFINITELY some connection here, and I strongly urge those who suffer from any kind of lower back problems to go to a PT and try to get to the possible root of the problem. I have been in PT for two weeks (again) and see a definite difference. Pain reduction is 50%.