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scott/ossatron

Posted by john h on 10/19/99 at 00:00 (011837)

scott: can you do an informal poll from all those who have the ossatron treatment as to success or failure and date of treatment. any info on when we can see some results from the test conducted in the U.S. HealthTronics told me some of the test have been completed. I wonder who the findings will be released to?

Re: scott/ossatron

Scott R on 10/19/99 at 00:00 (011844)

There are not enough people who have received the ossatron treatments and are also present in the message board for the results of a survey to be statistically meaningful. Personally, I think OssaTron should be giving heelspurs.com a commission for all the business it sends their way. A standard 15% commission like several of the advertisers would be fair. It would be nice if I could tract the results of heelspurs.com visitors receiving OssaTron. If Ossatron told all of their patients about heelspurs.com when they received the treatments, we could trust that those posting here are not just success stories that are sent to us by OssaTron.

Re: scott/ossatron

Martha B. on 10/19/99 at 00:00 (011852)

I can assure you all that Ossatron has nothing to do with my postings.I found out about it from a local newspaper article and my daughter tracked down the author and she gave us the phone number of the person in charge of the US studies and convinced her how bad I was and she directed us to Canada.I called healthronics asking a million questions about the machine.A friend directed me to http://www.Footcaredirect and that how I got to the heel spur board.At no time did ANYONE from anywhere tell me what or what not to post-this board has been a blessing to me and I would never misrepresent facts.
Jenn has had a much harder time than I have recovering and she has been totally honest re her pain post ossatron-I really complained about the last few minutes during the procedure.Remember in the blind studies they use 1000 shock waves and in Canada they use 1600 shocks.
Feel free to ask my opinion and you will surely get it-I am a brutally honest person!!!!!!!!!

Re: scott/ossatron

Duane E on 10/20/99 at 00:00 (011854)

If you read my postings carefully you will see that I am not 100% pain free. However, even sixteen weeks after ESWT I continue to improve.

I found out about ESWT in December 1998 from a friend who showed me a paper by a doctor in Germany. (ESWT is widely used there.) I next went to two medical libraries for additional information. The only information I could find was in German medical journals. Ultimately I talked with people at HealthTronics Inc. and was told of the OssaTron in Toronto. It wasn't until after I had ESWT that I looked at this site. Its a great site: most all views are represented.

If you think about it, the people associated with the OssaTron aren't very good business people, at least not like Bill Gates is a good businessman. If they were, they would have quietly bought heelspurs.com and packed the message board with nothing but the best of OssaTron.

About the 15% commission. The people associated with the OssaTron are good enough businessmen to pass this cost along to the patients.

The enthusiasm that people are showing for ESWT is because it works.

To get more people posting their ESWT results, more links to Europe might help.

Re: scott/ossatron

jennh on 10/20/99 at 00:00 (011861)

excuse me?? Well, I knew about heelspurs.com long before I went for the ossatron. I am not 100% pain free, but I went from being almost totally crippled to being able to play rugby after 13 weeks since the ossatron.

When I was at the 'Institute of Sports Medicine' there was a man there named John who was from Healthtronics and he mentioned to me about the http://www.heelspurs.com site.

Anyone who would consider this treatment should be smart enough to do the research on their own. And I paid for this out of my own pocket, no one paid me anything, I only posted my results because I wanted other board readers to learn about this process from someone who actually went thru it.

This should just be considered one more treatment that some of us endured on our road to recovery. No one told me to say anything and I've been brutally honest about my recovery. In fact most of it was extremely painful!!

So if you feel that Healthronics should fork over a standard commission, then shouldn't the manufacturers of all the other treatments we have tried also fork one over?? Like ibuprofen, night splints, casts, or birkenstock's??


Re: scott/ossatron

MikeH on 10/20/99 at 00:00 (011863)

PF sufferers who have elected to have the OssaTron treatment after hearing about it on this board did so based (at least in part) upon the recommendations from those who had the treatment and discussed their results here. In other word, heelspurs.com did'nt send OssaTron that business, PF sufferers who posted here did. Asking for a commission under those circumstances is like David Letterman asking for a percentage of the ticket revenues fron the latest movie just because its star appeared on his show and told everyone what a great movie it is.

Heelspurs.com provides the medium, but those who post the messages provide the content. Just like broadcast television, heelspurs.com is compensated through paid advertisements based (presumably) on the size of its audience. This website has been extremely informative for me, I visit it a few times each day and I hope it is making money from the advertising. But asking for a percentage of the revenue from a treatment discussed on the message board is off base.


Re: scott/ossatron

Scott R on 10/20/99 at 00:00 (011869)

This web site has cost me much more than advertising revenue can repay. It is the rest of the website that makes the centralized, large number of visitors to the message board possible. The message board and OssaTron referrals would not have been possible without the work I've put into the design of the message board and the rest of the site. MikeH who has put very little work into the message board and heelspurs.com is WAY off base for biting the hand that has made this possible. His attempt to prevent heelspurs.com and the message board from receiving revenue limits further development and harms us all.



Re: scott/ossatron

Scott R on 10/20/99 at 00:00 (011870)

Most of the other treatments you mentioned DO support heelspurs.com. OssaTron has refused.



Re: scott/ossatron

Scott R on 10/20/99 at 00:00 (011871)

MikeH,
I couldn't find any previous posts made by you or your IP address and you didn't leave an email address. Do you have a financial interest in OssaTron or HealthTronics?

Re: scott/ossatron

Scott R on 10/20/99 at 00:00 (011872)

I mentioned possible manipulation of the guestbook not because I think OssaTron is doing it, but because I have an an-going concern that some product manufacturer will start doing it.

Re: scott/ossatron

rekha s on 10/21/99 at 00:00 (011876)

I am very thankful to you, Scott, for having this website for all of us PF sufferers who have to go thru countless hours of pain and the added humiliation of unsympathetic family friends and co-workers who believe this ailment is 'all in our head'

It is because of this website that I am able to explore more options than what my podiatrist has given me. I also think Mike is off-base for his remark. If Ossatron is getting this much business thru this website they should definitely support this website!


Re: scott/ossatron

Duane E on 10/21/99 at 00:00 (011879)

ESWT is a medical procedure. Do the people (or groups) that promote EPF or other surgical procedures pay a commission to this web site?

Re: scott/ossatron

MikeH on 10/21/99 at 00:00 (011887)

I have no connection whatsoever with OssaTron and no opinion on its effectiveness as a treatment for PF. I was simply making a point and in no way attempting to prevent heelspurs.com from receiving revenue. So I fail to see how I have in any way limited further development of this site and thereby 'harmed us all.'

I guess I did'nt realize that in order to express an opinion on this board, one must have first made a significant contribution to the board and to heelspurs.com. I will again state that I believe the site is extremely helpful, I visit the message board often and I hope that it can earn sufficient revenues to stay around for a long time. I simply believe that attempting to extract a commission for a procedure that PF sufferers learned about on the message board is not the way to do it.

P.S. I have not posted previously since I have only had PF for about 2 months and have been trying the various treatments described by others who do post. I seem to have it just about licked at this point, and will be happy to post the regimin I have followed if anyone is interested in hearing about it.


Re: scott/ossatron

Scott R on 10/21/99 at 00:00 (011891)

Both sides have had their say, so let's try not to make anymore posts about it and get on with our usual productive discussions. (unless you think a viewpoint hasn't been presented fairly). The market will dictate fairness so I admit some fault in bringing it. Besides, if OssaTron gave heelspurs.com too much money, the other ESWT manufacturers's links might disappear and we don't want to lose that objectivity. So far, no products have been rejected simply because a different link paid more, so the site is still innocent. The site is a whore only to the extent that the best paying links are on the home page and book page and I'm silent on products I would never buy but still think people need to know about them (I am afraid to be guilty of libel by saying bad things about a product). That's why Feathersprings no longer have a link.

Re: scott/ossatron

spinn on 10/21/99 at 00:00 (011914)

You're actually /serious/ about this?

I have no connection to anything here--someone referred me to this discussion, and I'm kinda dumbfounded that you expect cash because people are talking about a given product on your message board. The point of this thing is to share info with other pain sufferers and try to help, right? If you're sitting there grumbling about lost money, then it's fortunate people here don't have to pay to use your message board, too.

And the assumption that a company should pay simply because their product is making money by stuff posted on your public message board...well...I don't know, that viewpoint so boggles my mind that I'm having difficulty constructing the sentence to explain how obviously wrong this is. I mean, if you approached them, said 'a number of people here are interested in your product, maybe we could work out a partnership', that's one thing. But if you came at them with 'hey, people are talking about your thing, you should give me money,' I'm not surprised at all that they turned you down. Seems like you have an expectation that you /deserve/ money from them, and I just can't wrap my brain around that.

Either you have a public board or you don't. If it's a public board, then people will post about their experiences and share their finding to be helpful to other people. And if so happens that someone is making money off that advice, then that's a natural result of a public discussion (internet equivalent of word of mouth), not a new obligation on the part of the person who creates the product. It's like, if there was a meeting of 50 or so people who got together at a banquet hall to discuss foot problems, and the owner of the banquet hall overheard people recommending the Ossotron--would you expect him to get on the phone with the Ossotron people and start asking for money? Or the person who organizes the get-togethers? 'Say, we talked about the Ossotron a month ago, and three of our people got treatments...I think 15% would be fair, don't you?'

Besides, the flip side of your reasoning is this: say the Ossatron was a lousy product and wasting people's money, and people came on here and posted about what crap it is. Then the company would be losing money because of a discussion on your board. Does that mean you owe them lost revenue?

And as for the cost of this site...I haven't looked fully through, but it looks like there's mostly just text messages and a freeware BBS or two, right? Unless you're talking about the cost of your time in maintaining it, if you're paying more than 50 bucks a month for the provision of the website, you're getting ripped off.

JohnH: you were asking for an informal poll, right? Well, assuming this is a public message board, why not run one here yourself? Post a message, ask for responses, collect them for two weeks, post the results. That's all an informal poll really requires.


Re: scott/ossatron

Scott R on 10/19/99 at 00:00 (011844)

There are not enough people who have received the ossatron treatments and are also present in the message board for the results of a survey to be statistically meaningful. Personally, I think OssaTron should be giving heelspurs.com a commission for all the business it sends their way. A standard 15% commission like several of the advertisers would be fair. It would be nice if I could tract the results of heelspurs.com visitors receiving OssaTron. If Ossatron told all of their patients about heelspurs.com when they received the treatments, we could trust that those posting here are not just success stories that are sent to us by OssaTron.

Re: scott/ossatron

Martha B. on 10/19/99 at 00:00 (011852)

I can assure you all that Ossatron has nothing to do with my postings.I found out about it from a local newspaper article and my daughter tracked down the author and she gave us the phone number of the person in charge of the US studies and convinced her how bad I was and she directed us to Canada.I called healthronics asking a million questions about the machine.A friend directed me to http://www.Footcaredirect and that how I got to the heel spur board.At no time did ANYONE from anywhere tell me what or what not to post-this board has been a blessing to me and I would never misrepresent facts.
Jenn has had a much harder time than I have recovering and she has been totally honest re her pain post ossatron-I really complained about the last few minutes during the procedure.Remember in the blind studies they use 1000 shock waves and in Canada they use 1600 shocks.
Feel free to ask my opinion and you will surely get it-I am a brutally honest person!!!!!!!!!

Re: scott/ossatron

Duane E on 10/20/99 at 00:00 (011854)

If you read my postings carefully you will see that I am not 100% pain free. However, even sixteen weeks after ESWT I continue to improve.

I found out about ESWT in December 1998 from a friend who showed me a paper by a doctor in Germany. (ESWT is widely used there.) I next went to two medical libraries for additional information. The only information I could find was in German medical journals. Ultimately I talked with people at HealthTronics Inc. and was told of the OssaTron in Toronto. It wasn't until after I had ESWT that I looked at this site. Its a great site: most all views are represented.

If you think about it, the people associated with the OssaTron aren't very good business people, at least not like Bill Gates is a good businessman. If they were, they would have quietly bought heelspurs.com and packed the message board with nothing but the best of OssaTron.

About the 15% commission. The people associated with the OssaTron are good enough businessmen to pass this cost along to the patients.

The enthusiasm that people are showing for ESWT is because it works.

To get more people posting their ESWT results, more links to Europe might help.

Re: scott/ossatron

jennh on 10/20/99 at 00:00 (011861)

excuse me?? Well, I knew about heelspurs.com long before I went for the ossatron. I am not 100% pain free, but I went from being almost totally crippled to being able to play rugby after 13 weeks since the ossatron.

When I was at the 'Institute of Sports Medicine' there was a man there named John who was from Healthtronics and he mentioned to me about the http://www.heelspurs.com site.

Anyone who would consider this treatment should be smart enough to do the research on their own. And I paid for this out of my own pocket, no one paid me anything, I only posted my results because I wanted other board readers to learn about this process from someone who actually went thru it.

This should just be considered one more treatment that some of us endured on our road to recovery. No one told me to say anything and I've been brutally honest about my recovery. In fact most of it was extremely painful!!

So if you feel that Healthronics should fork over a standard commission, then shouldn't the manufacturers of all the other treatments we have tried also fork one over?? Like ibuprofen, night splints, casts, or birkenstock's??


Re: scott/ossatron

MikeH on 10/20/99 at 00:00 (011863)

PF sufferers who have elected to have the OssaTron treatment after hearing about it on this board did so based (at least in part) upon the recommendations from those who had the treatment and discussed their results here. In other word, heelspurs.com did'nt send OssaTron that business, PF sufferers who posted here did. Asking for a commission under those circumstances is like David Letterman asking for a percentage of the ticket revenues fron the latest movie just because its star appeared on his show and told everyone what a great movie it is.

Heelspurs.com provides the medium, but those who post the messages provide the content. Just like broadcast television, heelspurs.com is compensated through paid advertisements based (presumably) on the size of its audience. This website has been extremely informative for me, I visit it a few times each day and I hope it is making money from the advertising. But asking for a percentage of the revenue from a treatment discussed on the message board is off base.


Re: scott/ossatron

Scott R on 10/20/99 at 00:00 (011869)

This web site has cost me much more than advertising revenue can repay. It is the rest of the website that makes the centralized, large number of visitors to the message board possible. The message board and OssaTron referrals would not have been possible without the work I've put into the design of the message board and the rest of the site. MikeH who has put very little work into the message board and heelspurs.com is WAY off base for biting the hand that has made this possible. His attempt to prevent heelspurs.com and the message board from receiving revenue limits further development and harms us all.



Re: scott/ossatron

Scott R on 10/20/99 at 00:00 (011870)

Most of the other treatments you mentioned DO support heelspurs.com. OssaTron has refused.



Re: scott/ossatron

Scott R on 10/20/99 at 00:00 (011871)

MikeH,
I couldn't find any previous posts made by you or your IP address and you didn't leave an email address. Do you have a financial interest in OssaTron or HealthTronics?

Re: scott/ossatron

Scott R on 10/20/99 at 00:00 (011872)

I mentioned possible manipulation of the guestbook not because I think OssaTron is doing it, but because I have an an-going concern that some product manufacturer will start doing it.

Re: scott/ossatron

rekha s on 10/21/99 at 00:00 (011876)

I am very thankful to you, Scott, for having this website for all of us PF sufferers who have to go thru countless hours of pain and the added humiliation of unsympathetic family friends and co-workers who believe this ailment is 'all in our head'

It is because of this website that I am able to explore more options than what my podiatrist has given me. I also think Mike is off-base for his remark. If Ossatron is getting this much business thru this website they should definitely support this website!


Re: scott/ossatron

Duane E on 10/21/99 at 00:00 (011879)

ESWT is a medical procedure. Do the people (or groups) that promote EPF or other surgical procedures pay a commission to this web site?

Re: scott/ossatron

MikeH on 10/21/99 at 00:00 (011887)

I have no connection whatsoever with OssaTron and no opinion on its effectiveness as a treatment for PF. I was simply making a point and in no way attempting to prevent heelspurs.com from receiving revenue. So I fail to see how I have in any way limited further development of this site and thereby 'harmed us all.'

I guess I did'nt realize that in order to express an opinion on this board, one must have first made a significant contribution to the board and to heelspurs.com. I will again state that I believe the site is extremely helpful, I visit the message board often and I hope that it can earn sufficient revenues to stay around for a long time. I simply believe that attempting to extract a commission for a procedure that PF sufferers learned about on the message board is not the way to do it.

P.S. I have not posted previously since I have only had PF for about 2 months and have been trying the various treatments described by others who do post. I seem to have it just about licked at this point, and will be happy to post the regimin I have followed if anyone is interested in hearing about it.


Re: scott/ossatron

Scott R on 10/21/99 at 00:00 (011891)

Both sides have had their say, so let's try not to make anymore posts about it and get on with our usual productive discussions. (unless you think a viewpoint hasn't been presented fairly). The market will dictate fairness so I admit some fault in bringing it. Besides, if OssaTron gave heelspurs.com too much money, the other ESWT manufacturers's links might disappear and we don't want to lose that objectivity. So far, no products have been rejected simply because a different link paid more, so the site is still innocent. The site is a whore only to the extent that the best paying links are on the home page and book page and I'm silent on products I would never buy but still think people need to know about them (I am afraid to be guilty of libel by saying bad things about a product). That's why Feathersprings no longer have a link.

Re: scott/ossatron

spinn on 10/21/99 at 00:00 (011914)

You're actually /serious/ about this?

I have no connection to anything here--someone referred me to this discussion, and I'm kinda dumbfounded that you expect cash because people are talking about a given product on your message board. The point of this thing is to share info with other pain sufferers and try to help, right? If you're sitting there grumbling about lost money, then it's fortunate people here don't have to pay to use your message board, too.

And the assumption that a company should pay simply because their product is making money by stuff posted on your public message board...well...I don't know, that viewpoint so boggles my mind that I'm having difficulty constructing the sentence to explain how obviously wrong this is. I mean, if you approached them, said 'a number of people here are interested in your product, maybe we could work out a partnership', that's one thing. But if you came at them with 'hey, people are talking about your thing, you should give me money,' I'm not surprised at all that they turned you down. Seems like you have an expectation that you /deserve/ money from them, and I just can't wrap my brain around that.

Either you have a public board or you don't. If it's a public board, then people will post about their experiences and share their finding to be helpful to other people. And if so happens that someone is making money off that advice, then that's a natural result of a public discussion (internet equivalent of word of mouth), not a new obligation on the part of the person who creates the product. It's like, if there was a meeting of 50 or so people who got together at a banquet hall to discuss foot problems, and the owner of the banquet hall overheard people recommending the Ossotron--would you expect him to get on the phone with the Ossotron people and start asking for money? Or the person who organizes the get-togethers? 'Say, we talked about the Ossotron a month ago, and three of our people got treatments...I think 15% would be fair, don't you?'

Besides, the flip side of your reasoning is this: say the Ossatron was a lousy product and wasting people's money, and people came on here and posted about what crap it is. Then the company would be losing money because of a discussion on your board. Does that mean you owe them lost revenue?

And as for the cost of this site...I haven't looked fully through, but it looks like there's mostly just text messages and a freeware BBS or two, right? Unless you're talking about the cost of your time in maintaining it, if you're paying more than 50 bucks a month for the provision of the website, you're getting ripped off.

JohnH: you were asking for an informal poll, right? Well, assuming this is a public message board, why not run one here yourself? Post a message, ask for responses, collect them for two weeks, post the results. That's all an informal poll really requires.