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Vegas

Posted by Lee H on 11/22/99 at 00:00 (013016)

Well said JohnW

Re: Vegas

Lee H on 11/22/99 at 00:00 (012994)

Sounds great but how are you going to get around in a big city like that. Seems to me there may be a lot of walking involved!!!!!!!

Re: Vegas

jlcox on 11/22/99 at 00:00 (012998)

how will going to Vegas help your PF?

Re: Vegas

VickiJ on 11/22/99 at 00:00 (013001)

That's right Phil. Ossatron is still a big gamble, because the results have not yet been tested OVER TIME. I will take it seriously when the people who are now pain free from the treatments ARE STILL PAIN FREE ONE OR TWO YEARS FROM NOW AND WE SEE THERE ARE NO LONG TERM NEGATIVE AFFECTS TO MUSCLE AND TENDOND TISSUE FROM SHOCKWAVE TREATMENT. Offering hope is one thing, but John wants us all to believe in Ossatron based on a few positive, initial results. WHen someone posts a negative experience or suspicion about his machine he quickly rallies all those who have experienced help to try to convince us all that his machine is going to be the miracle we all seek. He needs money and test patients to continue his approval process and he finds alot of desperate people here...and yes, I'm extremely suspicious because I've been 'led down the rosey path' before. I hope with all of my heart that the Ossatron treatments are exactly what he and his investors hope it is, but I say it is too soon to tell and the people who have paid the bucks and endured the pain are to be admired for taking the risk to be his test subjects.
The FDA is not the 'perfect policeman' we all want it to be...there are too many cases where it has failed the public...by approving things too quickly from pressure by lobby groups and by dragging their heels at other times. HARD FACTS COLLECTED OVER TIME is what will prove the efficacy of Ossatron. And I suspect that it will turn out to be just like everything else...it will work for some of us and not for others...even tho I hope for a miracle too...after all, there are surgeons out there who are just as zealous about their cutting away at my feet!!!! what I object to is John's extremely over zealous promotion of it before the long term test results are in. I would trust him far more if he were much more cautious in his promotion on this site.THere are thousands of us disabled by PF. When there are hundreds, not dozens that have become pain freefrom the treatments and still pain free after months and years, not weeks, then I'll be less skeptical. IN the meantime, I resent being 'courted' by someone desperate for his product to succeed and payback his investment. And how do we know that some of the people 'cured' and reporting to this site are not 'plants'? Ilook forward to reading the results of their clinical trials and doctor's opinions once they get their hands on the results.
Sites like this are tremendous 'support groups' for those of us who have been completely disabled...I have learned so much that has helped me begin to heal and become mobile again and once again begin to earn a living. There is no way for Scott to police everyone who posts here. We have no way of knowing who is a 'plant' and who is not. I WANT TO BELIEVE JOHN AND EVERYTHING HE PROMOTES ABOUT OSSATRON...but just like I'm glad I didn't jump the gun and have the surgery before I learned that it is not always successful, we need to wait and listen to others regarding Ossatron, not just the ones who stand to gain financially.

Re: Vegas

BillC on 11/22/99 at 00:00 (013005)

I bet your are right.

Re: Vegas

JohnW on 11/22/99 at 00:00 (013008)

The study is complete, so we do not need patients. The easiest thing in the world would have been to ignore this site and only proceed with the fda study. patients were not recruited from this site for the study, however some patients came to this site to share their results. There is nothing to be gained by our company by treating patients in canada in a non controlled environment - only risks. The reason I chose to educate certain posters to this site was from my personal experience over the last five years knowing that we could help. Some of these stories are desparate. How could one ignore them.

There is more than 5 years experience on our device with lengthy followup. It was discussed in detail at the last world congress in London It will be discussed at the next world congress in naples and the next one in San Diego.

Quite frankly, if you were to ask Jenn, Martha, Duane, Becky, et al, if $1500 was worth only two to three years relief, they would answer yes. The fact that your trust has been abused in the past is irrelevant to these discussions. You have a choice, exercise it, however you are doing a disservice to the group by interjecting your own biases. A chronic sufferer who comes to this site and asks hard questions and researches our device through refernces and hundreds of publications will ultimately decide that we are a viable, non surgical alternative. If your conjecture and personal distrusts scare off one potential patient you should be ashamed. Believe it or not some people actually give a damn.


Re: Vegas

VickiJ on 11/22/99 at 00:00 (013024)

I'm not ashamed of anything. No one should be so desperate as to jump to any treatment based only on heresay. If my words of caution prevent one person from being too gulible here or someplace else, it's worth putting up with your condemnation.

Re: Vegas

Mohez on 11/22/99 at 00:00 (013034)

Vicki

Yes ossatron is a gamble, a big gamble I am not sure about. During my research, it appears safe,but
who knows 3,4,5,10 years down the road? Every day is a risk. I know for me, I had tried everything
and this is probably the last resort for me before surgery. I do not want to go for surgery, yet I
do not want to ice, ice, ice, and pop nsaids like candy, or think about a leaky gut or all that other
shit. I just want to be FREE. I don't feel that John W wants us to feel Ossatron is the cure based on
few positive initial results. He is excited about his machine, which on the surface appears to work
in the short term. And yes you are right, hard facts over time, will prove to be the tell tale, but
I don't have the TIME to wait. Hopefully you will look at my progress in 10 years time and it will
be positive. Talking about 'plants', John has paid for my treatments, and the only thing he asked for
was to keep the message board updated, frequently. I told him, I would but that I would post all my
results, both positive and negative, he said that he would not want it any other way. If you read my
weekly posts, i have nothing good to say about ossatron yet. I have not had any improvement........
yet, but hey I am skeptical. Whether it cures me or not, I don't think i will regret it either way, I
was tired of ice and popping anti inflamatories like candy.

Mohez


Re: Vegas

john h on 11/22/99 at 00:00 (013041)

i think the ossatron will be like many other treatments. it will work for some and not for others. it will take the long term to know the long term effects. i am 3 months post surgery and still have pain though not as much. i can go to work each day, mow the yard, climb on the roof but i cannot run. some days are better than others and i still ice and take vioxx. i may drop the vioxx soon to see if i am any worse.

Re: Vegas

Phil l on 11/23/99 at 00:00 (013070)

It won't

Re: Vegas

Lee H on 11/22/99 at 00:00 (012994)

Sounds great but how are you going to get around in a big city like that. Seems to me there may be a lot of walking involved!!!!!!!

Re: Vegas

jlcox on 11/22/99 at 00:00 (012998)

how will going to Vegas help your PF?

Re: Vegas

VickiJ on 11/22/99 at 00:00 (013001)

That's right Phil. Ossatron is still a big gamble, because the results have not yet been tested OVER TIME. I will take it seriously when the people who are now pain free from the treatments ARE STILL PAIN FREE ONE OR TWO YEARS FROM NOW AND WE SEE THERE ARE NO LONG TERM NEGATIVE AFFECTS TO MUSCLE AND TENDOND TISSUE FROM SHOCKWAVE TREATMENT. Offering hope is one thing, but John wants us all to believe in Ossatron based on a few positive, initial results. WHen someone posts a negative experience or suspicion about his machine he quickly rallies all those who have experienced help to try to convince us all that his machine is going to be the miracle we all seek. He needs money and test patients to continue his approval process and he finds alot of desperate people here...and yes, I'm extremely suspicious because I've been 'led down the rosey path' before. I hope with all of my heart that the Ossatron treatments are exactly what he and his investors hope it is, but I say it is too soon to tell and the people who have paid the bucks and endured the pain are to be admired for taking the risk to be his test subjects.
The FDA is not the 'perfect policeman' we all want it to be...there are too many cases where it has failed the public...by approving things too quickly from pressure by lobby groups and by dragging their heels at other times. HARD FACTS COLLECTED OVER TIME is what will prove the efficacy of Ossatron. And I suspect that it will turn out to be just like everything else...it will work for some of us and not for others...even tho I hope for a miracle too...after all, there are surgeons out there who are just as zealous about their cutting away at my feet!!!! what I object to is John's extremely over zealous promotion of it before the long term test results are in. I would trust him far more if he were much more cautious in his promotion on this site.THere are thousands of us disabled by PF. When there are hundreds, not dozens that have become pain freefrom the treatments and still pain free after months and years, not weeks, then I'll be less skeptical. IN the meantime, I resent being 'courted' by someone desperate for his product to succeed and payback his investment. And how do we know that some of the people 'cured' and reporting to this site are not 'plants'? Ilook forward to reading the results of their clinical trials and doctor's opinions once they get their hands on the results.
Sites like this are tremendous 'support groups' for those of us who have been completely disabled...I have learned so much that has helped me begin to heal and become mobile again and once again begin to earn a living. There is no way for Scott to police everyone who posts here. We have no way of knowing who is a 'plant' and who is not. I WANT TO BELIEVE JOHN AND EVERYTHING HE PROMOTES ABOUT OSSATRON...but just like I'm glad I didn't jump the gun and have the surgery before I learned that it is not always successful, we need to wait and listen to others regarding Ossatron, not just the ones who stand to gain financially.

Re: Vegas

BillC on 11/22/99 at 00:00 (013005)

I bet your are right.

Re: Vegas

JohnW on 11/22/99 at 00:00 (013008)

The study is complete, so we do not need patients. The easiest thing in the world would have been to ignore this site and only proceed with the fda study. patients were not recruited from this site for the study, however some patients came to this site to share their results. There is nothing to be gained by our company by treating patients in canada in a non controlled environment - only risks. The reason I chose to educate certain posters to this site was from my personal experience over the last five years knowing that we could help. Some of these stories are desparate. How could one ignore them.

There is more than 5 years experience on our device with lengthy followup. It was discussed in detail at the last world congress in London It will be discussed at the next world congress in naples and the next one in San Diego.

Quite frankly, if you were to ask Jenn, Martha, Duane, Becky, et al, if $1500 was worth only two to three years relief, they would answer yes. The fact that your trust has been abused in the past is irrelevant to these discussions. You have a choice, exercise it, however you are doing a disservice to the group by interjecting your own biases. A chronic sufferer who comes to this site and asks hard questions and researches our device through refernces and hundreds of publications will ultimately decide that we are a viable, non surgical alternative. If your conjecture and personal distrusts scare off one potential patient you should be ashamed. Believe it or not some people actually give a damn.


Re: Vegas

VickiJ on 11/22/99 at 00:00 (013024)

I'm not ashamed of anything. No one should be so desperate as to jump to any treatment based only on heresay. If my words of caution prevent one person from being too gulible here or someplace else, it's worth putting up with your condemnation.

Re: Vegas

Mohez on 11/22/99 at 00:00 (013034)

Vicki

Yes ossatron is a gamble, a big gamble I am not sure about. During my research, it appears safe,but
who knows 3,4,5,10 years down the road? Every day is a risk. I know for me, I had tried everything
and this is probably the last resort for me before surgery. I do not want to go for surgery, yet I
do not want to ice, ice, ice, and pop nsaids like candy, or think about a leaky gut or all that other
shit. I just want to be FREE. I don't feel that John W wants us to feel Ossatron is the cure based on
few positive initial results. He is excited about his machine, which on the surface appears to work
in the short term. And yes you are right, hard facts over time, will prove to be the tell tale, but
I don't have the TIME to wait. Hopefully you will look at my progress in 10 years time and it will
be positive. Talking about 'plants', John has paid for my treatments, and the only thing he asked for
was to keep the message board updated, frequently. I told him, I would but that I would post all my
results, both positive and negative, he said that he would not want it any other way. If you read my
weekly posts, i have nothing good to say about ossatron yet. I have not had any improvement........
yet, but hey I am skeptical. Whether it cures me or not, I don't think i will regret it either way, I
was tired of ice and popping anti inflamatories like candy.

Mohez


Re: Vegas

john h on 11/22/99 at 00:00 (013041)

i think the ossatron will be like many other treatments. it will work for some and not for others. it will take the long term to know the long term effects. i am 3 months post surgery and still have pain though not as much. i can go to work each day, mow the yard, climb on the roof but i cannot run. some days are better than others and i still ice and take vioxx. i may drop the vioxx soon to see if i am any worse.

Re: Vegas

Phil l on 11/23/99 at 00:00 (013070)

It won't