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Gordon--that is exactly what I meant!

Posted by AndreaB on 12/08/99 at 00:00 (013486)

When I found this board about eight months ago, I had searched many PF sites trying to find someone who had the same foot pain as I did. My symptoms are not exactly tradtional PF but I believe it is some form of PF. After suffering from this pain now for 15 months I have ruled out what works and what doesn't work. I actually think that I wasted alot of time trying the orthotics because so many people on the board with traditional PF (and the Drs.) said that 'you have to get used to them'. When in fact my pain worsened by wearing them and I think I further damaged my fascia by continuing to where them. I am not saying that I blame anyone but if and I were to have found people whose PF symptoms were more like mine, I would have tried their recommendations first. Also I would not have to read every post to see if something 'pops up' midway through a discussion that pertains to me or I can relate to.

Maybe things as simple as categories like 'Tradtional PF' (pain in a.m., pain to the touch at base of heel where fascia connects to heel bone, pain when walking) versus 'Non-traditional PF' (diffuse arch pain, burning pain when standing still that is alleviated by walking, no a.m. pain) etc. Or maybe classifying individuals into groups that differntiate foot types. For example, people with flat feet who over pronate are often helped by wearing orthotics. I on the other had have an absolutely normal gait with a high arch--not your traditional PF candidate (don't get me wrong I know it can afflict anyone but that is what the Drs have told me). And I am not kidding when I say the least amount of pain I have is when I am barefoot on carpet! I can tell you I only figured this out about 3 months ago having not even tried it because so many people with traditional PF say this is the worst thing you can do! Since I now classify my self as chronic, I don't care anymore about what I am not supposed to do, I do what gives me the least amount of pain.

Again I brought this up because Scott asked the question awhile back and I thought it was a great idea.


Re: Gordon--that is exactly what I meant!

Doug P on 12/08/99 at 00:00 (013498)

Andrea -- I too have similar symptoms to yours. No AM pain, pain is more diffuse, both feet. I think it may be sufficient to have a separate message board for people with 'non-traditional' PF pain. It doesn't mean that all those people have the same symptoms or will find the same cure, but it may narrow the field a bit. Once question for the non-traditionals -- have had an ultrasound done of your PF? Mine was negative -- the plantar fascia was a normal thickness. Most people with acute pain in the heel have a thickening of the fascia near the heel bone. Mine didn't, and I suspect those people with the diffuse arch pain don't have it either. This bums me out because it doesn't make me a candidate for the Ossatron.

Re: Gordon--that is exactly what I meant!

Rick R on 12/09/99 at 00:00 (013504)

Andrea

I have a hard enough time remembering yesterday, but do you recall what your symptoms were 15 months ago? I'm not sure if it means anything but I started out with the classic symptoms in the first months or perhahs year of this but as I got worse things changed. The pain became more general and worse with time on my feet. Early on I could walk it off and think I was ok until I sat down for a while and then got up. The pain sort of migrated from only that local spot right under the heel to the inside of the arch and at times around the ankle. I have fairly flat feet and some pronation. I have considered my problems to be 'mechanical' but am willing to keep an open mind. Sounds like your mechanics are sound. If you have had atypical symptoms from the get go perhaps that suggests a diet solution? This is why I think you raised such a good point at the beginning of this thread. All those mechanical approaches that I have tried and the experience gained on what did and didn't work might not be the best place to start for someone like you. But then again who knows! Barefoot on the carpet, yikes, somebody get me my Asics!


Re: Gordon--that is exactly what I meant!

janet on 12/09/99 at 00:00 (013506)

Doug,

My ultrasound and bonescan were also negative for PF--thus ruling me out for lithotripsy. I've had atypical symptoms from the beginning (5 yrs) except for heel pain that started around one year ago. I attribute that to over-vigorous achilles stretching. At any rate, I go in for an MRI in a couple weeks and for now I'm treating my symptoms with low carb diet and vitamins/homeopathy/massage. I'd like to do PT, as my ankles have become considerably weakened by 5 yrs of walking with a guarded gait, but any/all PT exercises flare up my pain. FYI, Dr. Galea ordered my MRI without hesitation. He actually recommended it! I'm having it done at my local hospital (I live in the US).


Re: Gordon--that is exactly what I meant!

Mary J. on 12/09/99 at 00:00 (013519)

Janet,
My four-year old pain in the heel and facia also flares up with PT and stretching. In addition, my MRI and bonescan was negative. I'm not familiar with ultrasound testing to detect PF. I've received no help from orthotics or any other traditional treatment. Thanks for all the suggestions like heat, ice, various shoes, casting, etc. I have some things to work on now.
Mary J.

Re: Gordon--that is exactly what I meant!

Janet on 12/09/99 at 00:00 (013520)

Hi Mary,

From what I've been told, an ultrasound measures the thickness of the plantar fascia. If the measurement of the fascia is thicker than normal where it attaches to the heel bone it is an indication that you have a build-up of scar tissue, hence PF. Can it mean other things? I'm not sure. Can you have PF and have fascias that measure within normal perameters? Don't know the answer to that either.


Re: Gordon--that is exactly what I meant!

Doug P on 12/10/99 at 00:00 (013562)

Janet -- please let me know how the results of your MRI turn out. I would like to know what it shows. BTW sorry I didn't see you in Ann Arbor a couple weekends ago -- I was only there for a weekend and I had a few people to see.

Re: Gordon--that is exactly what I meant!

Doug P on 12/08/99 at 00:00 (013498)

Andrea -- I too have similar symptoms to yours. No AM pain, pain is more diffuse, both feet. I think it may be sufficient to have a separate message board for people with 'non-traditional' PF pain. It doesn't mean that all those people have the same symptoms or will find the same cure, but it may narrow the field a bit. Once question for the non-traditionals -- have had an ultrasound done of your PF? Mine was negative -- the plantar fascia was a normal thickness. Most people with acute pain in the heel have a thickening of the fascia near the heel bone. Mine didn't, and I suspect those people with the diffuse arch pain don't have it either. This bums me out because it doesn't make me a candidate for the Ossatron.

Re: Gordon--that is exactly what I meant!

Rick R on 12/09/99 at 00:00 (013504)

Andrea

I have a hard enough time remembering yesterday, but do you recall what your symptoms were 15 months ago? I'm not sure if it means anything but I started out with the classic symptoms in the first months or perhahs year of this but as I got worse things changed. The pain became more general and worse with time on my feet. Early on I could walk it off and think I was ok until I sat down for a while and then got up. The pain sort of migrated from only that local spot right under the heel to the inside of the arch and at times around the ankle. I have fairly flat feet and some pronation. I have considered my problems to be 'mechanical' but am willing to keep an open mind. Sounds like your mechanics are sound. If you have had atypical symptoms from the get go perhaps that suggests a diet solution? This is why I think you raised such a good point at the beginning of this thread. All those mechanical approaches that I have tried and the experience gained on what did and didn't work might not be the best place to start for someone like you. But then again who knows! Barefoot on the carpet, yikes, somebody get me my Asics!


Re: Gordon--that is exactly what I meant!

janet on 12/09/99 at 00:00 (013506)

Doug,

My ultrasound and bonescan were also negative for PF--thus ruling me out for lithotripsy. I've had atypical symptoms from the beginning (5 yrs) except for heel pain that started around one year ago. I attribute that to over-vigorous achilles stretching. At any rate, I go in for an MRI in a couple weeks and for now I'm treating my symptoms with low carb diet and vitamins/homeopathy/massage. I'd like to do PT, as my ankles have become considerably weakened by 5 yrs of walking with a guarded gait, but any/all PT exercises flare up my pain. FYI, Dr. Galea ordered my MRI without hesitation. He actually recommended it! I'm having it done at my local hospital (I live in the US).


Re: Gordon--that is exactly what I meant!

Mary J. on 12/09/99 at 00:00 (013519)

Janet,
My four-year old pain in the heel and facia also flares up with PT and stretching. In addition, my MRI and bonescan was negative. I'm not familiar with ultrasound testing to detect PF. I've received no help from orthotics or any other traditional treatment. Thanks for all the suggestions like heat, ice, various shoes, casting, etc. I have some things to work on now.
Mary J.

Re: Gordon--that is exactly what I meant!

Janet on 12/09/99 at 00:00 (013520)

Hi Mary,

From what I've been told, an ultrasound measures the thickness of the plantar fascia. If the measurement of the fascia is thicker than normal where it attaches to the heel bone it is an indication that you have a build-up of scar tissue, hence PF. Can it mean other things? I'm not sure. Can you have PF and have fascias that measure within normal perameters? Don't know the answer to that either.


Re: Gordon--that is exactly what I meant!

Doug P on 12/10/99 at 00:00 (013562)

Janet -- please let me know how the results of your MRI turn out. I would like to know what it shows. BTW sorry I didn't see you in Ann Arbor a couple weekends ago -- I was only there for a weekend and I had a few people to see.