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8 free treatments in Toronto -

Posted by johnw on 1/29/00 at 00:00 (015258)

I tried to reach dr. galea on friday. assuming he will agree - I (not Healthtronics) will agree to hire dr.galea or Gordon for one treatment day (max 8 cases). I request that Scott help me decide a fair way to determine who gets treated (in addition to alan k). Obviously, we need to attempt to screen out candidates who will probably not benefit. The day willprobably be a friday towards the end of Feb. so that we can get cheap airfares etc. I will attend the sessions, answer any questions etc. Perhaps a nice dinner the night before, my treat. Maybe Jenn, Mohez, etc. can attend. A success and a failure to further answer your questions.

Yes, you will have to sign a waiver promising not to sue me. And yes this is self serving. The purpose is to attempt to answer in a scientific and practical way if this technology works to the boards satisfaction. Any ideas on a fair way to do this. This dialogue should be more useful than the last couple of days. What are your thoughts.


Re: 8 free treatments -- Criteria?

Nancy S. on 1/29/00 at 00:00 (015261)

Assuming this hasn't been posted before, what criteria would make a person likely or not likely to benefit? Can you provide a brief summary? Thanks. --Nancy S.

Re: 8 free treatments in Toronto -

Trish on 1/29/00 at 00:00 (015263)

I am interested......I've had PF for 8 yrs. Let us know what the criteria are. Thanks.

Re: 8 free treatments in Toronto -

alan k on 1/29/00 at 00:00 (015265)

I'll go if there is room. Don't take that as less than enthusiasm. I suppose certain tests will be necessary so that Feb date might be hard to keep. I suppose an ultrasound test is necessary, but I'm not clear on this from the posts. It seems this is a tough test to get a skilled person to do. Please do let us know what tests are necessary so that we can try to get them in time.


thanks! alan k



Re: 8 free treatments in Toronto -

Lee H on 1/29/00 at 00:00 (015267)

Alan, I may be wrong but I thought I read that you tested positive for TTS, now if this is the case would Ossatron work for you?

Re: 8 free treatments in Toronto -

wendyn on 1/29/00 at 00:00 (015269)

I wouldn't qualify since my problem appears to be more nerve entrapment. If I lived in the area I'd love to come for just the dinner though - be nice to meet most of you folks in person!!! I hope that through this effort some of you may receive treatment that could help you with your problem.

It's worth a try - like I said before...if someone told me that wearing maxi-pads on my feet would make them feel better...I'd certainly give it a fair shot. From what little I know of Ossatron, it doesn't sound like it's likely to make your condition worse...


Re: 8 free treatments in Toronto -

alan k on 1/29/00 at 00:00 (015271)

no, I was negative on emg, nerve blocks have no effect, and only have some tingling when my tt is hit. I do get some relief from nightsplints but not much, as well as Birkenstocks. My symptoms most closely match Martha B, who was helped by ossatron. I need a pf ultrasound to measure,as I think she had.

Re: 8 free treatments in Toronto -

Martha B. on 1/29/00 at 00:00 (015272)

I don't want to burst anyones bubble but Dr. G only does 2 cases a day when he works on Fridays.It takes awhile for the block,etc.Actual ossatron takes 10 minutes.John W. can probably talk him into additional folks but 8!!???? May I suggest those who might get the chance to go to Toronto get busy and find someone capable of preforming the ultrasound.I was so certain of pf that I took a chance and waited til I got there for the ultrasound. It cost Jenn and me about $75 and was quick and easy.GOOD LUCK! I sure dont regret having it done.SCOTT GETS MY NUMBER ONE VOTE!!!!!

Re: 8 free treatments in Toronto -

PHIL L on 1/29/00 at 00:00 (015274)

John,may i suggest you pull canidates from around the reagion
like 2 from northern area,ect ect,

best way to spread the word if ossatron works well.


Re: 8 free treatments in Toronto -

Janet on 1/30/00 at 00:00 (015294)

Hi Alan,

FYI--Your symptoms and mine are very similar--atypical for PF. Dr. Galea required an ultrasound for me as a criteria to get ECSW. My sounds revealed fascias that measure 2.5 cm and 3.2 cm. Both are within the norm. Donna, his PA, told me that he likes to have 6+ measurements in order to do ECSW. When I first saw Dr. Galea in Oct 99 he ruled me out as an Ossatron candidate for this reason and recommended ART. When the ART failed he performed ECSW on me three weeks ago. As I'm still within the healing window I have no encouraging news to offer at this time. A doctor in the radiology department of a hospital did my sounds. Its not a difficult test. Dr. Mark Linsay, Dr. Galea's associate who performed ART on me said that the best guy in the country at doing sounds is in the Henry Ford Hospital System in Detroit, MI. If your interested you can probably get his name from Dr. Galea. Good luck I hope you can get ECSW--it won't hurt!


Re: 8 free treatments in Toronto -

john a on 1/31/00 at 00:00 (015323)

I'm not sure what to make of this free treatment offer, though several things come to mind. (And please take what I say here in the spirit of healthy scepticism, not mean-spiritedness.)

First, surely these few free treatments are not going to prove anything about the efficacy of Ossatron in treating PF that has not already been answered by the extensive study submitted to the FDA. So, what then is John W's motivation? He admits it is self-serving, but in what way? Let's say 75% of the board sufferers treated see marked improvement after a suitable time. What does that imply? Will we all then rush out to get ossatron treatments just because a few of our friends here on the board were helped? What if only 25% see improvement? Would we then shun the ossatron? I don't think most of us here are that naive. What if the results of these free treatments vary greatly from those of the study submitted to the FDA? I think that whatever the outcome of these few free treatments, it could be chalked up to 'small sample size', and so have no overall bearing on Ossatron in general. So then, is John W. just a generous guy? May be, and more power to him if so! I guess you could argue that simply showing good will by providing free treatments, no matter the outcome, is good for business. I also guess that if only one PFer is helped by this, then it was worth it. I'm just sorry that that one PFer won't be me, since my under one year's suffering and atypical PF probably won't satisfy the selection criteria (yes, hints of sour grapes here :-)

Finally, if these free treatments really happen, very serious consideration must be given to how to choose the people who get it. I just hope it is based on a medically definable state (like PF thickness, etc) rather than just duration of suffering, unverifiable responses to a survey, or personality (but hey, I like alan k too!). And then random selection from within the qualifying pool if necessary. The selection MUST BE FAIR at all costs, or you risk alienating the rest of the board.


Re: 8 free treatments -- Criteria?

Nancy S. on 1/29/00 at 00:00 (015261)

Assuming this hasn't been posted before, what criteria would make a person likely or not likely to benefit? Can you provide a brief summary? Thanks. --Nancy S.

Re: 8 free treatments in Toronto -

Trish on 1/29/00 at 00:00 (015263)

I am interested......I've had PF for 8 yrs. Let us know what the criteria are. Thanks.

Re: 8 free treatments in Toronto -

alan k on 1/29/00 at 00:00 (015265)

I'll go if there is room. Don't take that as less than enthusiasm. I suppose certain tests will be necessary so that Feb date might be hard to keep. I suppose an ultrasound test is necessary, but I'm not clear on this from the posts. It seems this is a tough test to get a skilled person to do. Please do let us know what tests are necessary so that we can try to get them in time.


thanks! alan k



Re: 8 free treatments in Toronto -

Lee H on 1/29/00 at 00:00 (015267)

Alan, I may be wrong but I thought I read that you tested positive for TTS, now if this is the case would Ossatron work for you?

Re: 8 free treatments in Toronto -

wendyn on 1/29/00 at 00:00 (015269)

I wouldn't qualify since my problem appears to be more nerve entrapment. If I lived in the area I'd love to come for just the dinner though - be nice to meet most of you folks in person!!! I hope that through this effort some of you may receive treatment that could help you with your problem.

It's worth a try - like I said before...if someone told me that wearing maxi-pads on my feet would make them feel better...I'd certainly give it a fair shot. From what little I know of Ossatron, it doesn't sound like it's likely to make your condition worse...


Re: 8 free treatments in Toronto -

alan k on 1/29/00 at 00:00 (015271)

no, I was negative on emg, nerve blocks have no effect, and only have some tingling when my tt is hit. I do get some relief from nightsplints but not much, as well as Birkenstocks. My symptoms most closely match Martha B, who was helped by ossatron. I need a pf ultrasound to measure,as I think she had.

Re: 8 free treatments in Toronto -

Martha B. on 1/29/00 at 00:00 (015272)

I don't want to burst anyones bubble but Dr. G only does 2 cases a day when he works on Fridays.It takes awhile for the block,etc.Actual ossatron takes 10 minutes.John W. can probably talk him into additional folks but 8!!???? May I suggest those who might get the chance to go to Toronto get busy and find someone capable of preforming the ultrasound.I was so certain of pf that I took a chance and waited til I got there for the ultrasound. It cost Jenn and me about $75 and was quick and easy.GOOD LUCK! I sure dont regret having it done.SCOTT GETS MY NUMBER ONE VOTE!!!!!

Re: 8 free treatments in Toronto -

PHIL L on 1/29/00 at 00:00 (015274)

John,may i suggest you pull canidates from around the reagion
like 2 from northern area,ect ect,

best way to spread the word if ossatron works well.


Re: 8 free treatments in Toronto -

Janet on 1/30/00 at 00:00 (015294)

Hi Alan,

FYI--Your symptoms and mine are very similar--atypical for PF. Dr. Galea required an ultrasound for me as a criteria to get ECSW. My sounds revealed fascias that measure 2.5 cm and 3.2 cm. Both are within the norm. Donna, his PA, told me that he likes to have 6+ measurements in order to do ECSW. When I first saw Dr. Galea in Oct 99 he ruled me out as an Ossatron candidate for this reason and recommended ART. When the ART failed he performed ECSW on me three weeks ago. As I'm still within the healing window I have no encouraging news to offer at this time. A doctor in the radiology department of a hospital did my sounds. Its not a difficult test. Dr. Mark Linsay, Dr. Galea's associate who performed ART on me said that the best guy in the country at doing sounds is in the Henry Ford Hospital System in Detroit, MI. If your interested you can probably get his name from Dr. Galea. Good luck I hope you can get ECSW--it won't hurt!


Re: 8 free treatments in Toronto -

john a on 1/31/00 at 00:00 (015323)

I'm not sure what to make of this free treatment offer, though several things come to mind. (And please take what I say here in the spirit of healthy scepticism, not mean-spiritedness.)

First, surely these few free treatments are not going to prove anything about the efficacy of Ossatron in treating PF that has not already been answered by the extensive study submitted to the FDA. So, what then is John W's motivation? He admits it is self-serving, but in what way? Let's say 75% of the board sufferers treated see marked improvement after a suitable time. What does that imply? Will we all then rush out to get ossatron treatments just because a few of our friends here on the board were helped? What if only 25% see improvement? Would we then shun the ossatron? I don't think most of us here are that naive. What if the results of these free treatments vary greatly from those of the study submitted to the FDA? I think that whatever the outcome of these few free treatments, it could be chalked up to 'small sample size', and so have no overall bearing on Ossatron in general. So then, is John W. just a generous guy? May be, and more power to him if so! I guess you could argue that simply showing good will by providing free treatments, no matter the outcome, is good for business. I also guess that if only one PFer is helped by this, then it was worth it. I'm just sorry that that one PFer won't be me, since my under one year's suffering and atypical PF probably won't satisfy the selection criteria (yes, hints of sour grapes here :-)

Finally, if these free treatments really happen, very serious consideration must be given to how to choose the people who get it. I just hope it is based on a medically definable state (like PF thickness, etc) rather than just duration of suffering, unverifiable responses to a survey, or personality (but hey, I like alan k too!). And then random selection from within the qualifying pool if necessary. The selection MUST BE FAIR at all costs, or you risk alienating the rest of the board.