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Pressure vs Energy

Posted by Scott R on 2/09/00 at 00:00 (015645)

Like I said in the last email, the Ossatron has pressure between 36 and 51 MPa. In the english units, that 5,000 to 7,000 pounds per square inch. To help your 'mind's eye' that's about 2 small cars being dropped on your big toe for a fraction of a second. 1200 times or so.

Re: Pressure vs Energy

Dr. David Zuckerman on 2/09/00 at 00:00 (015646)

Thanks Scott., I believe that I was told that the orbasone has the same amount of pressure with the same focal period. Don't quote me with this yet. I want to see this in writing first

Dr. Zuckerman

PS my toe still hurts thinking about that amount of pressure. I have been using 22kv at 3000 shocks, with local nerve blocks. The patients have no pain with this. What I don't understand is why osstran is only using 18kv with 1600 shocks. Something is different or am using greater MPa's I need to future look into this. My results are on the same path as the osstran FDA study examples. I do know that when I tested the feeling on my self with my hand the pain was terrible.


Re: Pressure vs Energy

Duane E on 2/09/00 at 00:00 (015648)

There is the possibility that the shock wave focusing heads in the two devices are also different (different geometry). The information to compare the Orbasone to the OssaTron should be found on the specifications page of the Orbasone's Operation Manual.

EXPERIMENT:

An experiment to visualize the effect of the focused shock waves.
This should be a fast, easy, cheap and fun test.

1) Obtain four (4) bars of clear glycerin soap.
2) Divide the Orbasone range (kV) in half to get the range mid-point.
3) Place one bar of soap on a table, apply aqueous coupling fluid to the soap and position shock head coupling cushion to soap bar. Apply one(1) shock at the lowest voltage. Repeat with new soap bars at the mid-range kV position, and at the highest kV range. For reference, test the remaining soap bar at the 22 kV that you use for treating patients.
4) Compare the soap bars.


Re: Pressure vs Energy

Dr. Zuckerman on 2/09/00 at 00:00 (015652)

I was taught without a manuel . I am still waiting for the printing of the manuel. But I went into my file and found the information for the osstran. I forget I was given it a few years ago by John W. Will compare when the orbasone manuel comes in. The comparison that I was given by the PHD that trained me was that regular water coming out of the facet is 300 bars of pressure. The amount of pressure at the focal point at 16kv was about 3500 bars of pressure. What I would like to know what amt of MPa or pressure is necessary to stimulate bone healing in both osstran and the orbasone. This is important inforamtion that if you know please let me know.I am not sure any one knows this information. I did see a case study with the osstran showing bone formation at 26kv with 4000 on a non-union tibial leg fracture. This may become clear any osstran FDA approval.

Re: Pressure vs Energy

Dr. David Zuckerman on 2/09/00 at 00:00 (015646)

Thanks Scott., I believe that I was told that the orbasone has the same amount of pressure with the same focal period. Don't quote me with this yet. I want to see this in writing first

Dr. Zuckerman

PS my toe still hurts thinking about that amount of pressure. I have been using 22kv at 3000 shocks, with local nerve blocks. The patients have no pain with this. What I don't understand is why osstran is only using 18kv with 1600 shocks. Something is different or am using greater MPa's I need to future look into this. My results are on the same path as the osstran FDA study examples. I do know that when I tested the feeling on my self with my hand the pain was terrible.


Re: Pressure vs Energy

Duane E on 2/09/00 at 00:00 (015648)

There is the possibility that the shock wave focusing heads in the two devices are also different (different geometry). The information to compare the Orbasone to the OssaTron should be found on the specifications page of the Orbasone's Operation Manual.

EXPERIMENT:

An experiment to visualize the effect of the focused shock waves.
This should be a fast, easy, cheap and fun test.

1) Obtain four (4) bars of clear glycerin soap.
2) Divide the Orbasone range (kV) in half to get the range mid-point.
3) Place one bar of soap on a table, apply aqueous coupling fluid to the soap and position shock head coupling cushion to soap bar. Apply one(1) shock at the lowest voltage. Repeat with new soap bars at the mid-range kV position, and at the highest kV range. For reference, test the remaining soap bar at the 22 kV that you use for treating patients.
4) Compare the soap bars.


Re: Pressure vs Energy

Dr. Zuckerman on 2/09/00 at 00:00 (015652)

I was taught without a manuel . I am still waiting for the printing of the manuel. But I went into my file and found the information for the osstran. I forget I was given it a few years ago by John W. Will compare when the orbasone manuel comes in. The comparison that I was given by the PHD that trained me was that regular water coming out of the facet is 300 bars of pressure. The amount of pressure at the focal point at 16kv was about 3500 bars of pressure. What I would like to know what amt of MPa or pressure is necessary to stimulate bone healing in both osstran and the orbasone. This is important inforamtion that if you know please let me know.I am not sure any one knows this information. I did see a case study with the osstran showing bone formation at 26kv with 4000 on a non-union tibial leg fracture. This may become clear any osstran FDA approval.