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PF and TTS, sciatic connecion

Posted by dfeet on 3/28/00 at 00:00 (017952)

Hi, Boy, it seems when you're away for a few days you miss so much! Thank you to all who contributes to this web site!
Well, my PT was also treating my back because I had developed sciatic pain radiating down my right leg, although, not radiating to my foot. Evidently, there is some proposed connection between the back and the foot.
After some research there can be a connection due to the sciatic nerve coursing to the tip of your 'big' toe(from you lower back to your toe). Therefore, If anyone has any referred pain from their back it may be related to your pain in your foot. See a neurologist.
My pain in my feet, though , does not seem related to my back, except through cause and effect.
This week so far has been a good week for my back, but not so good for my feet. I had a night cramp last Sat., and my feet are burning.

The nightsplints(I had to modify them for comfort with velcro straps) help me by keeping my feet immobile throughout the night. The splints keep my feet from plantar flexion(pointing your toe). Plantar flexion seems to elicit nig httime cramping. They also maintain a static stretch throughout the night which helps the PF.
My curiosity has been picqued with the Birks? Where can I get them? I know that they are some kind of ortho/ergonomic type of footwear. Do you need to get used to them? I have orthoics, but they seem to be irritating me right now. Do I need a special fit or Rx?

Thank you all again! To hopeful healing. Good Luck!


Re: PF and TTS, sciatic connecion

wendyn on 3/28/00 at 00:00 (017954)

Hi dfeet....I also have Pf, TTS and sciatica though fortunately I don't usually have all three at once.

You can find Birks on line and at most good shoe stores. I just looked in our white pages under 'Birkenstock' and found a store that specializes in them.

They take some getting used to, try to find some with a 'soft' foot bed (some foot beds have a nice sueade (spelling? I'm too tired) covering with extra padding.

Sorry to hear you're having such a bad week - I hope things improve for you soon.


Re: PF and TTS, sciatic connecion

alan k on 3/28/00 at 00:00 (017955)

definitely look into birks. They usually take some getting used to and should be 'broken in' like orthotics.

Beware: orthotics have in my case brought on mild tts symptoms which I have managed with much difficulty to put into remission. This tts irritation was not the case at first as I did adjust to the orthotics. It was a complication that developed later.

Of course, this is just one person's story and may not apply to you or anyone else.


alan k


Re: PF and TTS, sciatic connecion

wendyn on 3/28/00 at 00:00 (017958)

Alan, I really think you are on to something with the orthotics/TTS connection (even thought my PT didn't think it was possible). I loved my orthotics so much when I got them, I even sent a half a dozen friends and both my parents to this doctor for them. Looking back, I developed a very different sort of pain shortly after starting to wear them (I believe very early TTS). After several months, wearing anythig other than my orthotics caused unbearable pain.

I did not start to see any real relief until I switched orthotics last July, and then got out of them completly into Birks in September.

I think for folks like myself with real structural foot problems - orthotics may be helpful, but they have to be properly made by someone who really knows what they're doing. I think mine were too rigid and too high.

My youngest son (almost 7) has those classic 'flexible flat feet' we were discussing a while ago. He also looks like his inner ankle just about touches the floor when he walks (as John H mentioned). I did a lot of reading last week on flexible flat feet, and everything I found said that if there is no pain - LEAVE THEM ALONE. I had considered putting him into orthotics (actually tried last year but they gave him blisters) but I will just leave him be for now.

My other son had to start wearing them at 11, he had bad knee and foot pain and CANNOT go without them. I will buy him some Birks when his feet stop growing so fast. He seems to do really well with the pair that were made at the physio place that made mine last summer. They are not as high or as rigid as his first two pairs (he trashes them in about 6 months).


Re: PF and TTS, sciatic connecion

Rick R on 3/29/00 at 00:00 (017967)

Of course there is a connection between the back and the foot, it's called a leg. Sorry I just couldn't stop myself. I posted a similar message a while ago regarding similar symptoms. I do the lower back spasm thing all too often these days. When I first got PF I hadn't been having back problems but then again I was still in my 20's. I also have symptoms that sound like TTS. I have never had this set of symptoms diagnosed primarily due to that classic one thing at a time in a vacuum approach that our doctors can handle. What really struck a nerve, pardon the expression, was your comment on night cramping. Before I made the changes that helped me control PF (stretching, exercize etc.) I used to get these cramps. The only way I could sleep was with my feet hanging off the end of the bed. If my toes pointed, I was in for it. When I went camping I used to have to roll something up and prop up my feet so I could have something to hang them off of. Swimming would induce this nasty cramping. Could the susceptibility to this type of cramping be an indication of a tight and/or short Plantar Fascia and thus perhaps an early warning sign for PF?

I use orthotics and think that they, or some type of arch support is an essential part of my ability to deal with PF. I'm not convinced that the extra few hundred bucks we throw at the custom fitting is worth it. Often this is a process of trial and error. Mine have also deformed so much with wear that I doubt that there is any benefit to the custom fit after a couple of months. I have never tried Birks but I can see how they would fit the arch support role quite well. Asics running shoes have a great arch support which beats my orthotics in their current state.

I will have to risk the pain and try to think if there was any correlation between TTS like symptoms and orthotics. I have considered my burning pain in the front of my right foot and numbness on one toe to have been the result of the added pressure and subsequent dammage on the balls of my feet caused by favoring the heels. The same heel pain that caused the redistribution in weight caused me to seek treatment which resulted, among other things, orthotics. It's easy for me to see how these would correlate and to be construed as having a causal relationship. TTS seems to have a high incidence rate among PF sufferers and PF sufferers are frequently treated with orthotics. Could just be a coincidence, but who knows.

Good Luck

Rick


Re: PF and TTS, sciatic connecion

alan k on 3/29/00 at 00:00 (017968)

Yes Wendy I remember that you got tts while in orthotics.
In my case I am positive: I started with a little twitching like ache on the 'corner' of my foot on the inside edge under the ankle, and then it spread up into the classic tarsal tunnel area. Then I found tinnel's sign.

I feel reluctant to boom out a big warning since like you said orthotics might be necessary for some people and many report good results. I think our two cases warrant that people who try orthotics (and they should) should also be on the look out for any new pains that occur after the breaking in period is over (which will always be a bit uncomfy at first).

I think that it also may be a good idea to have several pairs of beneficial footwear that are slightly different, so that any 'groove' you get into isn't worn too deep. I have two different Birkenstock footbeds and might look into a non-birk insert in the future as I get ready to go back to sneakers (Yeah!!)

alan k


Re: PF and TTS, sciatic connecion

wendyn on 3/28/00 at 00:00 (017954)

Hi dfeet....I also have Pf, TTS and sciatica though fortunately I don't usually have all three at once.

You can find Birks on line and at most good shoe stores. I just looked in our white pages under 'Birkenstock' and found a store that specializes in them.

They take some getting used to, try to find some with a 'soft' foot bed (some foot beds have a nice sueade (spelling? I'm too tired) covering with extra padding.

Sorry to hear you're having such a bad week - I hope things improve for you soon.


Re: PF and TTS, sciatic connecion

alan k on 3/28/00 at 00:00 (017955)

definitely look into birks. They usually take some getting used to and should be 'broken in' like orthotics.

Beware: orthotics have in my case brought on mild tts symptoms which I have managed with much difficulty to put into remission. This tts irritation was not the case at first as I did adjust to the orthotics. It was a complication that developed later.

Of course, this is just one person's story and may not apply to you or anyone else.


alan k


Re: PF and TTS, sciatic connecion

wendyn on 3/28/00 at 00:00 (017958)

Alan, I really think you are on to something with the orthotics/TTS connection (even thought my PT didn't think it was possible). I loved my orthotics so much when I got them, I even sent a half a dozen friends and both my parents to this doctor for them. Looking back, I developed a very different sort of pain shortly after starting to wear them (I believe very early TTS). After several months, wearing anythig other than my orthotics caused unbearable pain.

I did not start to see any real relief until I switched orthotics last July, and then got out of them completly into Birks in September.

I think for folks like myself with real structural foot problems - orthotics may be helpful, but they have to be properly made by someone who really knows what they're doing. I think mine were too rigid and too high.

My youngest son (almost 7) has those classic 'flexible flat feet' we were discussing a while ago. He also looks like his inner ankle just about touches the floor when he walks (as John H mentioned). I did a lot of reading last week on flexible flat feet, and everything I found said that if there is no pain - LEAVE THEM ALONE. I had considered putting him into orthotics (actually tried last year but they gave him blisters) but I will just leave him be for now.

My other son had to start wearing them at 11, he had bad knee and foot pain and CANNOT go without them. I will buy him some Birks when his feet stop growing so fast. He seems to do really well with the pair that were made at the physio place that made mine last summer. They are not as high or as rigid as his first two pairs (he trashes them in about 6 months).


Re: PF and TTS, sciatic connecion

Rick R on 3/29/00 at 00:00 (017967)

Of course there is a connection between the back and the foot, it's called a leg. Sorry I just couldn't stop myself. I posted a similar message a while ago regarding similar symptoms. I do the lower back spasm thing all too often these days. When I first got PF I hadn't been having back problems but then again I was still in my 20's. I also have symptoms that sound like TTS. I have never had this set of symptoms diagnosed primarily due to that classic one thing at a time in a vacuum approach that our doctors can handle. What really struck a nerve, pardon the expression, was your comment on night cramping. Before I made the changes that helped me control PF (stretching, exercize etc.) I used to get these cramps. The only way I could sleep was with my feet hanging off the end of the bed. If my toes pointed, I was in for it. When I went camping I used to have to roll something up and prop up my feet so I could have something to hang them off of. Swimming would induce this nasty cramping. Could the susceptibility to this type of cramping be an indication of a tight and/or short Plantar Fascia and thus perhaps an early warning sign for PF?

I use orthotics and think that they, or some type of arch support is an essential part of my ability to deal with PF. I'm not convinced that the extra few hundred bucks we throw at the custom fitting is worth it. Often this is a process of trial and error. Mine have also deformed so much with wear that I doubt that there is any benefit to the custom fit after a couple of months. I have never tried Birks but I can see how they would fit the arch support role quite well. Asics running shoes have a great arch support which beats my orthotics in their current state.

I will have to risk the pain and try to think if there was any correlation between TTS like symptoms and orthotics. I have considered my burning pain in the front of my right foot and numbness on one toe to have been the result of the added pressure and subsequent dammage on the balls of my feet caused by favoring the heels. The same heel pain that caused the redistribution in weight caused me to seek treatment which resulted, among other things, orthotics. It's easy for me to see how these would correlate and to be construed as having a causal relationship. TTS seems to have a high incidence rate among PF sufferers and PF sufferers are frequently treated with orthotics. Could just be a coincidence, but who knows.

Good Luck

Rick


Re: PF and TTS, sciatic connecion

alan k on 3/29/00 at 00:00 (017968)

Yes Wendy I remember that you got tts while in orthotics.
In my case I am positive: I started with a little twitching like ache on the 'corner' of my foot on the inside edge under the ankle, and then it spread up into the classic tarsal tunnel area. Then I found tinnel's sign.

I feel reluctant to boom out a big warning since like you said orthotics might be necessary for some people and many report good results. I think our two cases warrant that people who try orthotics (and they should) should also be on the look out for any new pains that occur after the breaking in period is over (which will always be a bit uncomfy at first).

I think that it also may be a good idea to have several pairs of beneficial footwear that are slightly different, so that any 'groove' you get into isn't worn too deep. I have two different Birkenstock footbeds and might look into a non-birk insert in the future as I get ready to go back to sneakers (Yeah!!)

alan k