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Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

Posted by Astrid Bierworth on 5/12/00 at 04:31 (020250)

I had my 3rd Sonorex treatment Wed. (May 10) in the afternoon. The following evening (last night), I notice the pain is 90 - 95% gone! Still the same this morning. I press on the spot which normally hurts and there is very little, if anything to be felt. Is it too early to hope this is cured? Most patients report a gradual healing. This was one literally overnight! I almost can't believe it.

Has anyone else ever had such dramatic results?

I will keep reporting.

Astrid.

posted to the eswt board . . . keyword: Sonocur Sonorex


Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

Astrid Bierworth on 5/12/00 at 10:37 (020263)

Perhaps a bit hasty. I can walk on it without shoes and no pain. If I press on the right spot, there is some pain now, but not nearly as much as before. Maybe 50%.

We're getting there, right?

Sunday I do a 5 km. walk. On May 24 I try a 10 minute run. Those things should tell the tale! I am very optomistic so far.

Astrid.

posted to the eswt board . . . keyword: Sonocur Sonorex


Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

David L on 5/12/00 at 12:47 (020269)

Astrid,
We have treated hundreds of patients with PF and achilles tendinitis in Vancouver and they are the most successful indications. A large percentage of our patients are considerably better after their 3rd treatment (ie...1 week apart for 3 weeks). Generally, people who feel immediate relief within 24 hours of a treatment are experiencing 'hyperstimulation analgesia'. Essentially, the shock waves are creating an anasthetic effect. Once that wears off, you may feel a bit more tenderness. As treatments progress, that tenderness eases off. What is happening is extremely normal.
As for wondering why it's happening so quickly to you, you are the same as most of the patients that we see. Virtually all of the posts that you have read on this board have been from people who underwent the Ossatron treatment which is a much higher energy and the results generally take longer to occur. I believe that there are only two other members of this board that have posted their Sonocur experiences...Trish...who's results have taken a little longer than normal, but who seems to be improving steadily now, and ChrisB who has seen tremendous results in the same period of time that you have.We have treated well over 1000 patients here in Vancouver alone, and our results have mirrored those in the study with a 75-90% success rate.
Thanks for your comments and please keep us all informed of your progress.
Regards,
David Lowy
Vice President, Canada
Sonorex Therapy Centers Toll Free 1 877 766-6287 http://www.sonorex.com
posted to the eswt board . . . keyword: Sonocur Sonorex

Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

Dr. Zuckerman on 5/12/00 at 14:32 (020274)

I have the ability with the orbaonne to either do a high energy or a low energy. David could you tell me what joules are consider low energy for the Sonocur, Sonorex. Thank you for your help

Dr. Zuckerman
posted to the eswt board . . . keyword: Orbasone


Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

john h on 5/12/00 at 16:55 (020287)

since the ossaton is used and i quote from the healthtronics annual report 'to induce micropic injuries at the site of the chronic injury. subsuequently, a generation of new blood vessels enters in the the area and causes bone-healing cells or tissue-healing cells to invade the area and stimulate the healing process' it would seem the power level would very from person to person depending on the depth of the injured tissue and size of the person.
posted to the eswt board . . . keyword:

Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

David L on 5/12/00 at 17:47 (020294)

According to a study published by Rompe et al. in the May 1998 issue of the Journal of Bone & Joint Surgery:
'The beneficial effects of low energy shock waves may be related to Melzack's concept of hyperstimulation analgesia, in that a moderate sensory stimulus can relieve pain when it is administered directly to the site, and a relatively short stimulus (seconds to minutes) may relieve chronic recalcitrant pain for a long period. High energy shock waves have also been shown to cause mechanical disintegration of calcific deposits in tendons. There have been no reports on alteration or damage to tendon and peritendinous tissues after shock wave therapy, although there have been extensive descriptions of pulmonary alveolar injuries, renal sub- and percapsular haematoma, and hepatic necrosis or haematoma
posted to the eswt board . . . keyword:

Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

David L on 5/12/00 at 17:52 (020295)

A comparison of the machines and ranges of energy can be found at
http://heelspurs.com/eswt/specs.html
Regards
posted to the eswt board . . . keyword: Sonocur Sonorex

Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

Mary J. on 5/12/00 at 21:09 (020309)

David, Could you please define pulmonary alveolar injuries, renal sub- and percapsular haematoma, and hepatic necrosis or haematoma? Thanks. Mary J.

posted to the eswt board . . . keyword: all

Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

Trish on 5/13/00 at 15:06 (020340)

Please elaborate on the last sentence of your message.
posted to the eswt board . . . keyword:

Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

David L on 5/15/00 at 16:57 (020407)

Pulmonary alveolar injuries- damage to the alveoli or 'air sacs ' in the lung tissue

Renal hematoma (may be subcapsular or below the renal capsule or
pericapsular which means outside the renal capsule)- abnornal collections of blood around the kidney, which result from bleeding from the kidney, usually as the result of some type injury or trauma.

Hepatic necrosis-death of hepatic (liver) tissue.

Hepatic hematoma- abnormal collection of blood around or within the liver, as a result of abnormal bleeding from the liver. Usually results from some type of liver injury or trauma.

posted to the eswt board . . . keyword: Sonocur Sonorex


Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

Mary J on 5/17/00 at 08:49 (020479)

David, I guess my next question is: All of these things can be caused by ESWT to the heel? Or are they caused by direct treatment to the area? Also, what are the symptoms, and do they heal. Sounds like very serious side effects. Thanks for all your helpfulness, David. Mary J.
posted to the eswt board . . . keyword:

Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

David L on 5/17/00 at 18:51 (020501)

The conditions you asked about are primarily associated with higher energy application of shock waves to the kidney in the treatment of kidney stones. They do not occur as a result of treatment to the heel or other localized area of the musculoskeletal system. The complications and side effects of ESWT for orthopedic conditions, especially with lower energy devices like the SIEMENS Sonocur, are rare, and are generally limited to localized tenderness, superfical skin discoloration or bruising, and occasionally mild swelling. These complications are self limited and usually disappear in a few days. Most patients have no significant side effects or complications at all. In very rare instances ( especially with higher energy devices), local areas of bleeding could result in collections of blood ( hematomas) near the site treated. These too generally resolve
without treatment and result in no permanent disability or impairment.

posted to the eswt board . . . keyword: Sonocur Sonorex

Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

Mary J. on 5/18/00 at 07:21 (020526)

Thank you, David. That was very helpful. I will be getting an OssaTron treatment a 12:30pm today in the study at the University of Texas in Galveston. Wish me luck! Thanks again. Mary J.
posted to the eswt board . . . keyword: OssaTron

Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

Astrid Bierworth on 5/12/00 at 10:37 (020263)

Perhaps a bit hasty. I can walk on it without shoes and no pain. If I press on the right spot, there is some pain now, but not nearly as much as before. Maybe 50%.

We're getting there, right?

Sunday I do a 5 km. walk. On May 24 I try a 10 minute run. Those things should tell the tale! I am very optomistic so far.

Astrid.

posted to the eswt board . . . keyword: Sonocur Sonorex


Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

David L on 5/12/00 at 12:47 (020269)

Astrid,
We have treated hundreds of patients with PF and achilles tendinitis in Vancouver and they are the most successful indications. A large percentage of our patients are considerably better after their 3rd treatment (ie...1 week apart for 3 weeks). Generally, people who feel immediate relief within 24 hours of a treatment are experiencing 'hyperstimulation analgesia'. Essentially, the shock waves are creating an anasthetic effect. Once that wears off, you may feel a bit more tenderness. As treatments progress, that tenderness eases off. What is happening is extremely normal.
As for wondering why it's happening so quickly to you, you are the same as most of the patients that we see. Virtually all of the posts that you have read on this board have been from people who underwent the Ossatron treatment which is a much higher energy and the results generally take longer to occur. I believe that there are only two other members of this board that have posted their Sonocur experiences...Trish...who's results have taken a little longer than normal, but who seems to be improving steadily now, and ChrisB who has seen tremendous results in the same period of time that you have.We have treated well over 1000 patients here in Vancouver alone, and our results have mirrored those in the study with a 75-90% success rate.
Thanks for your comments and please keep us all informed of your progress.
Regards,
David Lowy
Vice President, Canada
Sonorex Therapy Centers Toll Free 1 877 766-6287 http://www.sonorex.com
posted to the eswt board . . . keyword: Sonocur Sonorex

Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

Dr. Zuckerman on 5/12/00 at 14:32 (020274)

I have the ability with the orbaonne to either do a high energy or a low energy. David could you tell me what joules are consider low energy for the Sonocur, Sonorex. Thank you for your help

Dr. Zuckerman
posted to the eswt board . . . keyword: Orbasone


Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

john h on 5/12/00 at 16:55 (020287)

since the ossaton is used and i quote from the healthtronics annual report 'to induce micropic injuries at the site of the chronic injury. subsuequently, a generation of new blood vessels enters in the the area and causes bone-healing cells or tissue-healing cells to invade the area and stimulate the healing process' it would seem the power level would very from person to person depending on the depth of the injured tissue and size of the person.
posted to the eswt board . . . keyword:

Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

David L on 5/12/00 at 17:47 (020294)

According to a study published by Rompe et al. in the May 1998 issue of the Journal of Bone & Joint Surgery:
'The beneficial effects of low energy shock waves may be related to Melzack's concept of hyperstimulation analgesia, in that a moderate sensory stimulus can relieve pain when it is administered directly to the site, and a relatively short stimulus (seconds to minutes) may relieve chronic recalcitrant pain for a long period. High energy shock waves have also been shown to cause mechanical disintegration of calcific deposits in tendons. There have been no reports on alteration or damage to tendon and peritendinous tissues after shock wave therapy, although there have been extensive descriptions of pulmonary alveolar injuries, renal sub- and percapsular haematoma, and hepatic necrosis or haematoma
posted to the eswt board . . . keyword:

Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

David L on 5/12/00 at 17:52 (020295)

A comparison of the machines and ranges of energy can be found at
http://heelspurs.com/eswt/specs.html
Regards
posted to the eswt board . . . keyword: Sonocur Sonorex

Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

Mary J. on 5/12/00 at 21:09 (020309)

David, Could you please define pulmonary alveolar injuries, renal sub- and percapsular haematoma, and hepatic necrosis or haematoma? Thanks. Mary J.

posted to the eswt board . . . keyword: all

Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

Trish on 5/13/00 at 15:06 (020340)

Please elaborate on the last sentence of your message.
posted to the eswt board . . . keyword:

Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

David L on 5/15/00 at 16:57 (020407)

Pulmonary alveolar injuries- damage to the alveoli or 'air sacs ' in the lung tissue

Renal hematoma (may be subcapsular or below the renal capsule or
pericapsular which means outside the renal capsule)- abnornal collections of blood around the kidney, which result from bleeding from the kidney, usually as the result of some type injury or trauma.

Hepatic necrosis-death of hepatic (liver) tissue.

Hepatic hematoma- abnormal collection of blood around or within the liver, as a result of abnormal bleeding from the liver. Usually results from some type of liver injury or trauma.

posted to the eswt board . . . keyword: Sonocur Sonorex


Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

Mary J on 5/17/00 at 08:49 (020479)

David, I guess my next question is: All of these things can be caused by ESWT to the heel? Or are they caused by direct treatment to the area? Also, what are the symptoms, and do they heal. Sounds like very serious side effects. Thanks for all your helpfulness, David. Mary J.
posted to the eswt board . . . keyword:

Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

David L on 5/17/00 at 18:51 (020501)

The conditions you asked about are primarily associated with higher energy application of shock waves to the kidney in the treatment of kidney stones. They do not occur as a result of treatment to the heel or other localized area of the musculoskeletal system. The complications and side effects of ESWT for orthopedic conditions, especially with lower energy devices like the SIEMENS Sonocur, are rare, and are generally limited to localized tenderness, superfical skin discoloration or bruising, and occasionally mild swelling. These complications are self limited and usually disappear in a few days. Most patients have no significant side effects or complications at all. In very rare instances ( especially with higher energy devices), local areas of bleeding could result in collections of blood ( hematomas) near the site treated. These too generally resolve
without treatment and result in no permanent disability or impairment.

posted to the eswt board . . . keyword: Sonocur Sonorex

Re: Is it too early for a miracle? David - what do you think?

Mary J. on 5/18/00 at 07:21 (020526)

Thank you, David. That was very helpful. I will be getting an OssaTron treatment a 12:30pm today in the study at the University of Texas in Galveston. Wish me luck! Thanks again. Mary J.
posted to the eswt board . . . keyword: OssaTron