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inserts........again!

Posted by ChrisO on 5/18/00 at 09:59 (020534)

Hi folks - Would any of you say that using customized orthotics have caused any muscle tightening or spasms in the highest muscle of your arch? It's attached to the joint at the big toe and I forget what it's called. This one is not fascia. I'm actually doing progressively better with the PF but this whole new pain is just as debilitating. I've spent some time with the inserts, 2 - 3 days in a row, with no problem but then suddenly wake up with that particular muscle tighter than a drum and quite painful. I guess it's back to the 'port-in-a-storm- Birks for awhile.

Re: inserts........again!

Pauline on 5/18/00 at 10:48 (020542)

Chris, I have yet found a pair of othotics I can wear. I have had
4 custom pairs made and the pain of anything against my arch is too
much to bare. I put them all in a bag and put on the most comfortable
shoes I have.

My orthopedic Dr. doesn't see much in them. Maybe we were sold
a bill of goods. Some people can wear them and get good results, but
not me. I can't even wear the Birks or anything else that is hard.

I really don't think it is natural to walk on hard plastic. Orthotics
kind of remind me of the Ear Nose and Throat Drs. They all want
to fix your deviated septum however they forget to tell you that
almost all people are born with one. Its a matter of degree and
how much it causes that person problems.



Re: inserts........again!

Beverly on 5/18/00 at 13:28 (020545)

I just got custom made soft orthodics. I've been in them two days. IT is too soon to judge them, but I think they are helping at least a little bit. My pod likes the soft ones. They are not smushy but they are made out of some kind of firm foam.

Beverly


Re: inserts........again!

davidb on 5/18/00 at 13:30 (020546)

I posted a comment here earlier in the week saying I couldn't get used to the arch support in my custom orthotics. I since have tried (with the approvial of my podiatrist) simply supporting my arch with three pieces of athletic tape (not a complicated taping method, since I have a relaitively minor case of pf). The tape helped hold my arch in place and took some pressure off the arch support in the orthotic. I may be violating some rule abpout how to treat pf, but so far, it has helped.

Re: inserts........again!

wendyn on 5/18/00 at 14:01 (020548)

No, you're not violating any rules... taping seems to help a lot of people. If you do it too much though you may break down the skin - so don't overuse it.

Re: inserts........again!

Dr. Zuckerman on 5/18/00 at 15:23 (020550)

It sounds like the extensor hallucis longus tendon. This is the tendon that extends your big toe joint. Maybe the shoe is rubbing the area because the orthosis takes up to much room. Can you remove any of the insole that comes with the shoe to give you more room. Sometimes you need to cut bacck the material under the big toe joint.
to give the area more room to move up and down in the shoe.

Re: inserts........again!

ChrisO on 5/18/00 at 16:56 (020553)

Thanks, Dr. Z, for your input and all that you continue to be willing to share with us. In fact, these orthotics are in their very own exclusive new shoe (no, it's not the newness of the shoe - I've worn both together several times with no pain) with that shoe's own liner removed. But how uncanny of you to suggest cutting away the portion of the orthotic that is, more or less, beneath the big toe joint - that's just what my physical therapist has suggested! It's so very nice to have TWO professionals offer the same idea - no offense intended! Now I just have to find someone who can do that.
Thankyou again and please know how appreciated you are on this board.

Re: inserts........again!

ChrisO on 5/18/00 at 17:05 (020556)

Hey Pauline - Save that bag of orthotics! Remember that there will eventually be an orthotic 'sculpture' done (in Nancy's 'barnyard') when we've collected enough! I'm beginning to think as you do about the molded orthotic because you sound just like me - I can't handle having anything 'against' that arch. I was a basket case when I had a cast on. I continue to find the Birks a tad hard also but they're still my 'go to' footwear. I'll give these customized ones yet another try if I can get a portion cut out per Dr. Z's suggestion. I can't tell you how glad I am that I'm not the only one with cold, rigid (hmmmmm - sounds like what my teenagers say about their mom....) arches!

Re: inserts........again!

Dr. Zuckerman on 5/18/00 at 19:42 (020558)

DOn't ever under estimate common sense. I have seen this problem you are talking about before. Another idea before cutting away is to
change the laces on the shoes. Skip the last eyelet and start the lacing with the bottom one not used. I have seen this give the shoe more room in the toe box area in the width area. I really enjoy this board and never mind putting my advice out there. If it weren't for this web site ESWT and other modalities would never have been part of my education. Learning is a two was street. Where does it say that you learn from only other doctors.??

Re: inserts........again!Re Dr Z

Laurie R on 5/18/00 at 20:47 (020566)

Hi Dr.Zuckerman,
You are so right we can learn from everybody not just doctors we know alot too. Also thank you so much for your in-put I appreciate it ,like I have said to you before ,you are a very kind doctor and person..........Laurie R

Re: inserts........again!

VickiJ on 5/19/00 at 08:05 (020579)

My experience may or may not be related...while I have never had the cramping you describe I did find that I could 'release' tightness and cramping in my pf by massaging the area just beneath my big toe in the ball of the foot area by rollering the area on a hard ball as forcefully as I could...it actually felt very, very good.

Re: inserts........again!

ChrisO on 5/19/00 at 10:48 (020593)

Hi Vicki - you've mentioned that 'hard ball' methodology a couple of times - what kind of ball do you use? Also, re: the strengthening of leg and feet muscles, I've heard that several times and while I don't doubt it for a second, I can't help but wonder how athletes, runners, weight(s) conditioners, etc. get PF in spite of what one would think is obvious strength in the lower leg/feet area.

Re: inserts........again!

VickiJ on 5/19/00 at 11:23 (020597)

I use those kid's toys...'super balls' that are translucent and 'glow in the dark' colors and are really hard and bounce very high...larger than a golf ball smaller than a tennis ball.

re: muscle strength
Problems like pf can arise when some muscles are strong and others are weak and this be for many reasons...hardly anyone teaches athletes or anyone else how to train properly....one of the professor friends I wrote about is a dancer/professor who wrote a book that teaches dancers about proper alignment and gives them exercises and stretches to help prevent injury and how to know if you are weak in a certain area, etc...when she wrote her book over ten years ago it was an unheard of thing...now there are a couple of books on the subject and she goes around the country lecturing to other dance teachers on how to analyze student posture and introduce proper strengthening exercises in order to help them prevent probems...but think about it...how many PE teachers, little league coaches, soccor coaches do you know who teach kids how to train, about posture, stretching, stretching etc. Having said that when I first had knee problems in college (30 years ag0) it was the basketball coach/trainer who helped me learn how to lift weights to strengthen my legs that let me walk and climb without being in pain...the doctor just threw prescriptions at me and never even mentioned therapy or training...I just assumed the issues came up with athletes so I asked the coach about it and he said 'absolutely' and sent me to the trainer who helped me learn which muscles to strengthen around my knees and how to properly lift weights without injuring myself...anyway, I'm rambling...but just because a person has strong legs doesn't mean they don't have some weak muscles in their feet and legs along with the strong ownes that may eventually lead to problems


Re: inserts........again!

Bob G. on 5/19/00 at 17:53 (020614)

Hello Chris,

If you are still in the San Luis Obispo area, I suggest Dennis at Tacken's Boot and Shoe Repair on Marsh Street.



Re: inserts........again!

ChrisO on 5/19/00 at 18:51 (020615)

Thanks, Bob.....actually I'm going up again June 5 to retrieve my Poly freshman for the summer and was beginning to think about seeing that tech based on your same info from a month or two ago....thanks again!

Re: Dennis at Tacken's

Bob G. on 5/19/00 at 22:41 (020627)

Hey Chris, Dennis is a Pedorthist (sp?) and understands what's going on. What a source! Best. BG

Re: My hard massage ball

Beverly on 5/20/00 at 00:33 (020634)

I use a hard ball too. I love mine. I found it at an athletic shoe store. It's the size of a golf ball, but it has hard nodules on it that massage the foot. I sit in my recliner and use it several times a day - especially after I have been on my foot. My hope is that it is also helping to breakdown scar tissue.

Beverly


Re: inserts........again!

Pauline on 5/18/00 at 10:48 (020542)

Chris, I have yet found a pair of othotics I can wear. I have had
4 custom pairs made and the pain of anything against my arch is too
much to bare. I put them all in a bag and put on the most comfortable
shoes I have.

My orthopedic Dr. doesn't see much in them. Maybe we were sold
a bill of goods. Some people can wear them and get good results, but
not me. I can't even wear the Birks or anything else that is hard.

I really don't think it is natural to walk on hard plastic. Orthotics
kind of remind me of the Ear Nose and Throat Drs. They all want
to fix your deviated septum however they forget to tell you that
almost all people are born with one. Its a matter of degree and
how much it causes that person problems.



Re: inserts........again!

Beverly on 5/18/00 at 13:28 (020545)

I just got custom made soft orthodics. I've been in them two days. IT is too soon to judge them, but I think they are helping at least a little bit. My pod likes the soft ones. They are not smushy but they are made out of some kind of firm foam.

Beverly


Re: inserts........again!

davidb on 5/18/00 at 13:30 (020546)

I posted a comment here earlier in the week saying I couldn't get used to the arch support in my custom orthotics. I since have tried (with the approvial of my podiatrist) simply supporting my arch with three pieces of athletic tape (not a complicated taping method, since I have a relaitively minor case of pf). The tape helped hold my arch in place and took some pressure off the arch support in the orthotic. I may be violating some rule abpout how to treat pf, but so far, it has helped.

Re: inserts........again!

wendyn on 5/18/00 at 14:01 (020548)

No, you're not violating any rules... taping seems to help a lot of people. If you do it too much though you may break down the skin - so don't overuse it.

Re: inserts........again!

Dr. Zuckerman on 5/18/00 at 15:23 (020550)

It sounds like the extensor hallucis longus tendon. This is the tendon that extends your big toe joint. Maybe the shoe is rubbing the area because the orthosis takes up to much room. Can you remove any of the insole that comes with the shoe to give you more room. Sometimes you need to cut bacck the material under the big toe joint.
to give the area more room to move up and down in the shoe.

Re: inserts........again!

ChrisO on 5/18/00 at 16:56 (020553)

Thanks, Dr. Z, for your input and all that you continue to be willing to share with us. In fact, these orthotics are in their very own exclusive new shoe (no, it's not the newness of the shoe - I've worn both together several times with no pain) with that shoe's own liner removed. But how uncanny of you to suggest cutting away the portion of the orthotic that is, more or less, beneath the big toe joint - that's just what my physical therapist has suggested! It's so very nice to have TWO professionals offer the same idea - no offense intended! Now I just have to find someone who can do that.
Thankyou again and please know how appreciated you are on this board.

Re: inserts........again!

ChrisO on 5/18/00 at 17:05 (020556)

Hey Pauline - Save that bag of orthotics! Remember that there will eventually be an orthotic 'sculpture' done (in Nancy's 'barnyard') when we've collected enough! I'm beginning to think as you do about the molded orthotic because you sound just like me - I can't handle having anything 'against' that arch. I was a basket case when I had a cast on. I continue to find the Birks a tad hard also but they're still my 'go to' footwear. I'll give these customized ones yet another try if I can get a portion cut out per Dr. Z's suggestion. I can't tell you how glad I am that I'm not the only one with cold, rigid (hmmmmm - sounds like what my teenagers say about their mom....) arches!

Re: inserts........again!

Dr. Zuckerman on 5/18/00 at 19:42 (020558)

DOn't ever under estimate common sense. I have seen this problem you are talking about before. Another idea before cutting away is to
change the laces on the shoes. Skip the last eyelet and start the lacing with the bottom one not used. I have seen this give the shoe more room in the toe box area in the width area. I really enjoy this board and never mind putting my advice out there. If it weren't for this web site ESWT and other modalities would never have been part of my education. Learning is a two was street. Where does it say that you learn from only other doctors.??

Re: inserts........again!Re Dr Z

Laurie R on 5/18/00 at 20:47 (020566)

Hi Dr.Zuckerman,
You are so right we can learn from everybody not just doctors we know alot too. Also thank you so much for your in-put I appreciate it ,like I have said to you before ,you are a very kind doctor and person..........Laurie R

Re: inserts........again!

VickiJ on 5/19/00 at 08:05 (020579)

My experience may or may not be related...while I have never had the cramping you describe I did find that I could 'release' tightness and cramping in my pf by massaging the area just beneath my big toe in the ball of the foot area by rollering the area on a hard ball as forcefully as I could...it actually felt very, very good.

Re: inserts........again!

ChrisO on 5/19/00 at 10:48 (020593)

Hi Vicki - you've mentioned that 'hard ball' methodology a couple of times - what kind of ball do you use? Also, re: the strengthening of leg and feet muscles, I've heard that several times and while I don't doubt it for a second, I can't help but wonder how athletes, runners, weight(s) conditioners, etc. get PF in spite of what one would think is obvious strength in the lower leg/feet area.

Re: inserts........again!

VickiJ on 5/19/00 at 11:23 (020597)

I use those kid's toys...'super balls' that are translucent and 'glow in the dark' colors and are really hard and bounce very high...larger than a golf ball smaller than a tennis ball.

re: muscle strength
Problems like pf can arise when some muscles are strong and others are weak and this be for many reasons...hardly anyone teaches athletes or anyone else how to train properly....one of the professor friends I wrote about is a dancer/professor who wrote a book that teaches dancers about proper alignment and gives them exercises and stretches to help prevent injury and how to know if you are weak in a certain area, etc...when she wrote her book over ten years ago it was an unheard of thing...now there are a couple of books on the subject and she goes around the country lecturing to other dance teachers on how to analyze student posture and introduce proper strengthening exercises in order to help them prevent probems...but think about it...how many PE teachers, little league coaches, soccor coaches do you know who teach kids how to train, about posture, stretching, stretching etc. Having said that when I first had knee problems in college (30 years ag0) it was the basketball coach/trainer who helped me learn how to lift weights to strengthen my legs that let me walk and climb without being in pain...the doctor just threw prescriptions at me and never even mentioned therapy or training...I just assumed the issues came up with athletes so I asked the coach about it and he said 'absolutely' and sent me to the trainer who helped me learn which muscles to strengthen around my knees and how to properly lift weights without injuring myself...anyway, I'm rambling...but just because a person has strong legs doesn't mean they don't have some weak muscles in their feet and legs along with the strong ownes that may eventually lead to problems


Re: inserts........again!

Bob G. on 5/19/00 at 17:53 (020614)

Hello Chris,

If you are still in the San Luis Obispo area, I suggest Dennis at Tacken's Boot and Shoe Repair on Marsh Street.



Re: inserts........again!

ChrisO on 5/19/00 at 18:51 (020615)

Thanks, Bob.....actually I'm going up again June 5 to retrieve my Poly freshman for the summer and was beginning to think about seeing that tech based on your same info from a month or two ago....thanks again!

Re: Dennis at Tacken's

Bob G. on 5/19/00 at 22:41 (020627)

Hey Chris, Dennis is a Pedorthist (sp?) and understands what's going on. What a source! Best. BG

Re: My hard massage ball

Beverly on 5/20/00 at 00:33 (020634)

I use a hard ball too. I love mine. I found it at an athletic shoe store. It's the size of a golf ball, but it has hard nodules on it that massage the foot. I sit in my recliner and use it several times a day - especially after I have been on my foot. My hope is that it is also helping to breakdown scar tissue.

Beverly