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Wall stretches; question about on the spot relief

Posted by dolcelen on 7/01/00 at 22:29 (022758)

Does anyone find that wall stretches create more pain in the affected areas? I find that towel and 'curb' stretches are less painful.

Also, can someone suggest a quick on the spot relief for spontaneous throbbing pain the heel (when it may not be so convenient to do extensive stretching). Thanks!


Re: Wall stretches; question about on the spot relief

Pauline on 7/02/00 at 08:20 (022767)

I have found the stretching did cause pain until some of my inflammation went down. Now I can stretch pretty far, feeling only the stretch not any pain. I go to Physical therapy and they used
Iontophoresis and dexamethasone to reduce my inflammation. So far
so good, but I ice, sleep in night splints, exercise my feet moderately and stretch comfortably and lot and lots of rest off both
feet.

The throbbing you have in the heel may be a bursa that may require
a steroid injection to get it to reduce. Dr. Zuckerman should
be able to provide good information on this. I had one once and
it was very painful. The steroid helped that a lot then I just had
to contend with the Plantar Fasciitis. Some people do not recommend
the steroid injections, but maybe if you have a true bursa then
this is the time to use it. Check with your Dr.


Re: Wall stretches; question about on the spot relief

Steve P on 7/02/00 at 10:46 (022770)

I stopped doing wall stretches some time ago because they caused such pain in my feet. I'm sure they were doing me more harm than good. As you mentioned, there are non-weightbearing stretches that can accomplish pretty much the same thing.
Good luck!

Re: Wall stretches; question about on the spot relief

alan k on 7/02/00 at 11:43 (022774)

Don't do the wall stretch if it makes it worse. LAter, as someone posted, you can return to it.

Note that you can take your foot in your hands and do a passive stretch, and take your toes and also give a stretch. If these don't hurt they may provide on the spot relief.

Another alternative is kneeling with butt on heels, toes tucked under, for a stetch to the bottom of the foot. This usually doesnot strain all the way back in the heel but it can in the metatarsal region, which you do not report as a problem.

The other thing is vigorous circular massage to the spot, followed by stiping massage in a motion toward the toes. This is helped greatly by calf massage as well and a quick hand held stretch.


good luck,

alan k


Re: Wall stretches; question about on the spot relief

ChuckC on 7/02/00 at 14:48 (022782)

I was doing wall stretches until about February then quit doing them because I thought they were doing more harm than good. After I stopped, my foot quickly improved and the only thing that was bothering me was a mild case of TTS. I then retried the various arch supports that I had purchased earlier. They slightly stretched my arch but I would get over the soreness in a couple of days. This past Monday I started doing wall stretches again. I quit on Thursday because the heel pain was returning--nothing like previously, but enough to realize that I should not be doing them. I am sure I will have no pain in a few days. Although it's too early to tell for sure, it appears that these latest wall stretches may have significantly reduced my TTS. I will know for sure in a couple more days.

My suggestion is that you quit doing the wall stretches for two or three weeks then start stretching your calf muscle by moving your foot up using your ankle. I would do it with shoes on so that you do not overstretch the bottom of your foot. After a while you can try it with shoes off. Good luck.


Re: Overstretching the bottom of the foot

Dolcelen on 7/02/00 at 22:22 (022794)

First-thanks for all your replies to 'wall stretches'. This site is sohelpful, as I am sure you all know. One question (to Chuck), how do you overstretch the bottom of your foot, and how do you know you have done that?

Re: Wall stretches; question about on the spot relief

Rock on 7/03/00 at 16:40 (022816)

My experience is lot like that of Alan and Chuck. Do not do either wall calf stretches or hang-your-heels-from-a-step calf stretches as these activites over stretch the PF.

I find that I can actively stretch my bad (PF) right calf by pulling back on the forefoot with my right hand while supporting the arch with the left hand. This is done with the knee at 90 degree angle.

Rock.


Re: Wall stretches; question about on the spot relief

ChuckC on 7/03/00 at 17:59 (022821)

When I flex my ankle, I tend to curl my toes up (back) which stretches the plantar fascia. I feel this stretch in my heel. Until the past few months, it caused my arch to ache and my heel to hurt. Now that I am close to getting over the PF, it does not feel as bad.

My PF was caused by a fallen arch. I think that any overstretching of the PF by someone with that cause is bad. I believe the two things that caused my heel pain and PF to continue for months (much longer than it should have) was (1) driving a car with a manual transmission (I have PF in the left foot and pushing in on the clutch was overstretching the plantar fascia) and (2) doing stretches, such as wall stretches, that stretched the PF. Once I quit doing those two things (actually I quit all stretching) my foot began to heal fairly quickly.

Before I figured out that stretching was bad for me, I tried using a nightsock. When I tightened it a little too tight, which would pull my toes back, I felt soreness and pain in my arch and heel the following couple of days. When I ran during that time, I could feel my arch pressing against my custom orthodic and realized that the sock had been too tight and was probably not for me.

The wall stretches that I did last week were the dumbest thing that I have done to my PF foot. Prior to doing that I was running pain-free. I was trying various inserts in my running shoes to find the lightest that would do the job. I would wear a pair for a few days then switch to a lighter pair once I could feel no strain in the bottom of my foot. After successfully wearing four different pair, I tried walking without store-bought inserts. After a few days, I then did some light, short jogs--no problem. Then I had my brilliant idea to start doing wall stretches again. I think it will be two or three weeks before my foot will be pain-free again.

During all but the worst phases of my PF (the first few months), I exercised at least some every day. At first it started walking and then as soon as I could run I did so. During the first couple of months, my foot would be hurting by the afternoon. That slowly stopped. I do not think I would have healed as quickly as I did without the natural stretching of the foot of walking/running. I felt that the aches in the arches and the pains in the heel and near the ankle bone were necessary for my foot to heal properly. I thought that the fibers in the bottom of my foot that were healing short needed to be pulled (which caused pain). In my case, I do not think I would have had any improvement if I would have had my foot in a cast or did nothing.

Hope this helps.


Re: Thanks for the help in "Stretching without Pain"

Dolcelen on 7/04/00 at 00:00 (022836)

I knew there was a reason for this board! I have told a few doctors who think that wall stretches are the panacea for
PF, that they actually exacerbate, not ease the pain. I was told to 'take it easy' while doing it, while they delightfully demonstrate the same darn thing for me!! Let them put a butcher knife under their arch see if the smile is sustained while stretching that way....

Thanks for your help, from those who truly understand.. I will try this passive method of stretching.


Re: Wall stretches; and Achilles tendonitis

Nancy S. on 7/04/00 at 03:16 (022838)

While reading this thread now, in the middle of the night, it suddenly occurred to me to wonder: Could wall stretches have contributed to, or even caused, my Achilles tendonitis? I have PF in only my left foot but now have AT in both feet, and of course was stretching both when doing wall stretches. I started out doing them too avidly for me, then cut back to a pretty gentle version, then quit doing them at all when the AT began to show up. --Nancy

Re: Wall stretches; and Achilles tendonitis

Dolcelen on 7/04/00 at 10:57 (022842)

Never thought my message would spawn ideas in the middle of the night. But nighttime is best for contemplating when you cannot sleep!

I wonder what would happen if you went back to the gentle stretches. I know that the wall and step stretch do a number on the achilles tendon, so it is a possibility. I would love to see research on the effects of different stretching techniques (good and bad) on locations of the foot affected by PF/AT. As for now, experimentation and knowing your own feet are the best indicators, I guess.


Re: Wall stretches; and Achilles tendonitis

Bob G. on 7/05/00 at 00:27 (022871)

From my experience, stretching can hurt and it can set you back. But now that I am sixteen weeks pain-free, I am doing many gentle streches every day (mostly on my FootFlex). It only takes a few seconds and is NOT risky BECAUSE it is always done briefly and gently...ALWAYS gently...

Re: Wall stretches; and Achilles tendonitis

Rock on 7/06/00 at 09:58 (022897)

Nancy asked:

'Could wall stretches have contributed to, or even caused, my Achilles tendonitis?'

Yes, I think so, but it of course more complicated than that. See http://www.mindfulness.com and anything on the rec.running newsgroup written by Ozzie Gontang whether or not you are a runner.

Also there is a current thread on the rec.running newsgroup on 'Achilles tendonitis' that is well worth reading.

Rock.


Re: Wall stretches; and Achilles tendonitis --Thank You, Rock, I'll check those out immediately EOM

Nancy S. on 7/06/00 at 10:23 (022898)



Re: Wall stretches; and Achilles tendonitis

JudyS on 7/06/00 at 11:52 (022902)

My husband went to high school with Ozzie - when we first started running Ozzie was holding some marathon-training clinics and has been quite a contributor to the sport in SD .....but the link you have here isn't opening........?

Re: Wall stretches; and Achilles tendonitis

Nancy S. on 7/06/00 at 12:41 (022904)

Rock, it isn't opening for me either. Do you know any tricks? Also, is the achilles tendonitis thread you mentioned in there, or is it another address? Thanks. --Nancy

Re: Wall stretches; and Achilles tendonitis

Rock on 7/06/00 at 13:54 (022908)

Nancy,

Ozzie posts everything he writes on the rec.running newsgroup. You can access that newgroup and 1000s of others for free from http://www.deja.com or http://www.remarq.com .

There is value to all PF sufferers on rec.running newsgroup.

For example, a search on 'Plantar Fascia' resulted in a list 600 posts (!) on the rec.running newsgroup.

Rock.


Re: Wall stretches; question about on the spot relief

Pauline on 7/02/00 at 08:20 (022767)

I have found the stretching did cause pain until some of my inflammation went down. Now I can stretch pretty far, feeling only the stretch not any pain. I go to Physical therapy and they used
Iontophoresis and dexamethasone to reduce my inflammation. So far
so good, but I ice, sleep in night splints, exercise my feet moderately and stretch comfortably and lot and lots of rest off both
feet.

The throbbing you have in the heel may be a bursa that may require
a steroid injection to get it to reduce. Dr. Zuckerman should
be able to provide good information on this. I had one once and
it was very painful. The steroid helped that a lot then I just had
to contend with the Plantar Fasciitis. Some people do not recommend
the steroid injections, but maybe if you have a true bursa then
this is the time to use it. Check with your Dr.


Re: Wall stretches; question about on the spot relief

Steve P on 7/02/00 at 10:46 (022770)

I stopped doing wall stretches some time ago because they caused such pain in my feet. I'm sure they were doing me more harm than good. As you mentioned, there are non-weightbearing stretches that can accomplish pretty much the same thing.
Good luck!

Re: Wall stretches; question about on the spot relief

alan k on 7/02/00 at 11:43 (022774)

Don't do the wall stretch if it makes it worse. LAter, as someone posted, you can return to it.

Note that you can take your foot in your hands and do a passive stretch, and take your toes and also give a stretch. If these don't hurt they may provide on the spot relief.

Another alternative is kneeling with butt on heels, toes tucked under, for a stetch to the bottom of the foot. This usually doesnot strain all the way back in the heel but it can in the metatarsal region, which you do not report as a problem.

The other thing is vigorous circular massage to the spot, followed by stiping massage in a motion toward the toes. This is helped greatly by calf massage as well and a quick hand held stretch.


good luck,

alan k


Re: Wall stretches; question about on the spot relief

ChuckC on 7/02/00 at 14:48 (022782)

I was doing wall stretches until about February then quit doing them because I thought they were doing more harm than good. After I stopped, my foot quickly improved and the only thing that was bothering me was a mild case of TTS. I then retried the various arch supports that I had purchased earlier. They slightly stretched my arch but I would get over the soreness in a couple of days. This past Monday I started doing wall stretches again. I quit on Thursday because the heel pain was returning--nothing like previously, but enough to realize that I should not be doing them. I am sure I will have no pain in a few days. Although it's too early to tell for sure, it appears that these latest wall stretches may have significantly reduced my TTS. I will know for sure in a couple more days.

My suggestion is that you quit doing the wall stretches for two or three weeks then start stretching your calf muscle by moving your foot up using your ankle. I would do it with shoes on so that you do not overstretch the bottom of your foot. After a while you can try it with shoes off. Good luck.


Re: Overstretching the bottom of the foot

Dolcelen on 7/02/00 at 22:22 (022794)

First-thanks for all your replies to 'wall stretches'. This site is sohelpful, as I am sure you all know. One question (to Chuck), how do you overstretch the bottom of your foot, and how do you know you have done that?

Re: Wall stretches; question about on the spot relief

Rock on 7/03/00 at 16:40 (022816)

My experience is lot like that of Alan and Chuck. Do not do either wall calf stretches or hang-your-heels-from-a-step calf stretches as these activites over stretch the PF.

I find that I can actively stretch my bad (PF) right calf by pulling back on the forefoot with my right hand while supporting the arch with the left hand. This is done with the knee at 90 degree angle.

Rock.


Re: Wall stretches; question about on the spot relief

ChuckC on 7/03/00 at 17:59 (022821)

When I flex my ankle, I tend to curl my toes up (back) which stretches the plantar fascia. I feel this stretch in my heel. Until the past few months, it caused my arch to ache and my heel to hurt. Now that I am close to getting over the PF, it does not feel as bad.

My PF was caused by a fallen arch. I think that any overstretching of the PF by someone with that cause is bad. I believe the two things that caused my heel pain and PF to continue for months (much longer than it should have) was (1) driving a car with a manual transmission (I have PF in the left foot and pushing in on the clutch was overstretching the plantar fascia) and (2) doing stretches, such as wall stretches, that stretched the PF. Once I quit doing those two things (actually I quit all stretching) my foot began to heal fairly quickly.

Before I figured out that stretching was bad for me, I tried using a nightsock. When I tightened it a little too tight, which would pull my toes back, I felt soreness and pain in my arch and heel the following couple of days. When I ran during that time, I could feel my arch pressing against my custom orthodic and realized that the sock had been too tight and was probably not for me.

The wall stretches that I did last week were the dumbest thing that I have done to my PF foot. Prior to doing that I was running pain-free. I was trying various inserts in my running shoes to find the lightest that would do the job. I would wear a pair for a few days then switch to a lighter pair once I could feel no strain in the bottom of my foot. After successfully wearing four different pair, I tried walking without store-bought inserts. After a few days, I then did some light, short jogs--no problem. Then I had my brilliant idea to start doing wall stretches again. I think it will be two or three weeks before my foot will be pain-free again.

During all but the worst phases of my PF (the first few months), I exercised at least some every day. At first it started walking and then as soon as I could run I did so. During the first couple of months, my foot would be hurting by the afternoon. That slowly stopped. I do not think I would have healed as quickly as I did without the natural stretching of the foot of walking/running. I felt that the aches in the arches and the pains in the heel and near the ankle bone were necessary for my foot to heal properly. I thought that the fibers in the bottom of my foot that were healing short needed to be pulled (which caused pain). In my case, I do not think I would have had any improvement if I would have had my foot in a cast or did nothing.

Hope this helps.


Re: Thanks for the help in "Stretching without Pain"

Dolcelen on 7/04/00 at 00:00 (022836)

I knew there was a reason for this board! I have told a few doctors who think that wall stretches are the panacea for
PF, that they actually exacerbate, not ease the pain. I was told to 'take it easy' while doing it, while they delightfully demonstrate the same darn thing for me!! Let them put a butcher knife under their arch see if the smile is sustained while stretching that way....

Thanks for your help, from those who truly understand.. I will try this passive method of stretching.


Re: Wall stretches; and Achilles tendonitis

Nancy S. on 7/04/00 at 03:16 (022838)

While reading this thread now, in the middle of the night, it suddenly occurred to me to wonder: Could wall stretches have contributed to, or even caused, my Achilles tendonitis? I have PF in only my left foot but now have AT in both feet, and of course was stretching both when doing wall stretches. I started out doing them too avidly for me, then cut back to a pretty gentle version, then quit doing them at all when the AT began to show up. --Nancy

Re: Wall stretches; and Achilles tendonitis

Dolcelen on 7/04/00 at 10:57 (022842)

Never thought my message would spawn ideas in the middle of the night. But nighttime is best for contemplating when you cannot sleep!

I wonder what would happen if you went back to the gentle stretches. I know that the wall and step stretch do a number on the achilles tendon, so it is a possibility. I would love to see research on the effects of different stretching techniques (good and bad) on locations of the foot affected by PF/AT. As for now, experimentation and knowing your own feet are the best indicators, I guess.


Re: Wall stretches; and Achilles tendonitis

Bob G. on 7/05/00 at 00:27 (022871)

From my experience, stretching can hurt and it can set you back. But now that I am sixteen weeks pain-free, I am doing many gentle streches every day (mostly on my FootFlex). It only takes a few seconds and is NOT risky BECAUSE it is always done briefly and gently...ALWAYS gently...

Re: Wall stretches; and Achilles tendonitis

Rock on 7/06/00 at 09:58 (022897)

Nancy asked:

'Could wall stretches have contributed to, or even caused, my Achilles tendonitis?'

Yes, I think so, but it of course more complicated than that. See http://www.mindfulness.com and anything on the rec.running newsgroup written by Ozzie Gontang whether or not you are a runner.

Also there is a current thread on the rec.running newsgroup on 'Achilles tendonitis' that is well worth reading.

Rock.


Re: Wall stretches; and Achilles tendonitis --Thank You, Rock, I'll check those out immediately EOM

Nancy S. on 7/06/00 at 10:23 (022898)



Re: Wall stretches; and Achilles tendonitis

JudyS on 7/06/00 at 11:52 (022902)

My husband went to high school with Ozzie - when we first started running Ozzie was holding some marathon-training clinics and has been quite a contributor to the sport in SD .....but the link you have here isn't opening........?

Re: Wall stretches; and Achilles tendonitis

Nancy S. on 7/06/00 at 12:41 (022904)

Rock, it isn't opening for me either. Do you know any tricks? Also, is the achilles tendonitis thread you mentioned in there, or is it another address? Thanks. --Nancy

Re: Wall stretches; and Achilles tendonitis

Rock on 7/06/00 at 13:54 (022908)

Nancy,

Ozzie posts everything he writes on the rec.running newsgroup. You can access that newgroup and 1000s of others for free from http://www.deja.com or http://www.remarq.com .

There is value to all PF sufferers on rec.running newsgroup.

For example, a search on 'Plantar Fascia' resulted in a list 600 posts (!) on the rec.running newsgroup.

Rock.