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How long before you see results?

Posted by Nancy N on 8/21/00 at 08:39 (025917)

I signed up for the FDA OrthoWave study in the Bronx, and had my first treatment a week ago. Of course, because it is a study, I don't know if I got the real treatment or not, and neither do the doctors at this point. I'm just wondering how long it was before those of you who've had the treatment felt a difference in your feet--and was it gradual or a more dramatic difference? I'm hoping this will work for me after more than a year with this agony. Thanks very much for your help!

Re: How long before you see results?

Nancy N on 8/21/00 at 17:32 (025948)

I should have included more information--the study is being done in two treatments, 400 seconds each (about 6.5 minutes). Doesn't seem like very lon to me compared to what I've seen on this site, but this is a different machine, so I don't know how much difference that makes. Anyway, if more information helps, I'll ve happy to provide it.

Re: How long before you see results?

Astrid Bierworth on 8/21/00 at 19:15 (025951)

My experience was with Sonorex, and I don't know how that compares to what you got. During the treatment, there was quite a bit of pain, but nothing which could not be tolerated. After the treatment, for about 24 hours, the area was quite numb, as the pain receptors were 'in shock'. I was told if you feel no pain during the treatment, they are not getting the right spot. You help them find the spot by the amount of pain you feel. The thing I disliked the most was the fact that the shock waves tried to exit by the bony things that stick out at the ankles and this was worse than hitting the spot.

My results occurred in the first few weeks, and I had 2 additional treatments (5 in all). I still have some pressure pain (if I put pressure on it), but I am now back to running (20 min.) in the morning, and I have recently added power walking (30 min.) in the evening. I have no ill effects from these activities. Before the treatment, a 5 km. walk made me limp for 2 days.

Hope this helps.

Astrid.


Re: How long before you see results?

Nancy N on 8/21/00 at 19:18 (025953)

Re: pain during treatment--I was given a shot of lidocaine to the painful area before the treatment, so I was quite numb during and after. Hopefully that doesn't mean they got the wrong area?

Re: How long before you see results?

Dr. Zuckerman on 8/21/00 at 19:58 (025956)

It is my understanding the the orthowave is a spark- gap technology with high energy. I saw the web site for this machine. I have found that using 16kv at three thousand pulses you should see something happen within days. If not wait two weeks repeat the treatment. This is my experience with doing eighty feet. I hope this helps.

Re: How long before you see results?

Barbara on 8/22/00 at 08:46 (025986)

Hi Nancy...I am also getting the FDA treatment at Montefiore in the Bronx. I'm getting it for my tennis elbow. Did you get the treatment last Monday? I think I may have passed you as you left the room. I was going in as you were leaving. I think I remember the doctor said your name was Nancy.

I'm also not so sure I'm getting the REAL treatment. Unlike the Ossatron trials, they don't drape off the machine, so you can see everything that's going on. The only way that I can figure that they de the placebo, is it to give you the treatment at a setting that's low enough to offer no benefit, but high enough to hurt. My treatment did hurt through the lidocane, but my elbow does not feel any better. My next treatment is this coming Saturday.


Re: How long before you see results?

Nancy N on 8/22/00 at 10:07 (026005)

I think I do remember you now! I didn't have any pain through the lidocaine, but the spot where they did the injection did hurt a little if I touched it after the medication wore off. From my understanding of the stuff they gave us to read/fill out, the placebo treatment is a very low setting, so your guess sounds right to me. I didn't want to take the Celebrex so I could tell what was going on, but since I have noticed no discernable difference since last Monday, I finally broke down and took one last night, but haven't noticed any difference there yet, either. So I guess at this point I am hoping that I got the placebo, because otherwise it doesn't seem to be working for me.

So you did an OssaTron trial as well? Was it for the same problem, or another one? What did you think of it? For the foot, they had me laying on my side, so I couldn't see much of how they did the treatment (but I wish I could have--I was very curious!)

I will be there on Saturday as well, so maybe I will see you (I'm going at 10am).

Nancy


Re: How long before you see results?

Barbara on 8/22/00 at 10:19 (026006)

I didn't have the Ossatron treatment, just read about the trials on this board.

My treatment is at 11.15, but last Monday they were running an hour and a half late. So, it may be a long day.

They gave me Vioxx, but I only took one. I find that Advil and Aleve do a better job. And I didn't take it for my elbow, I took it for my PF. They asked me if I wanted to be part of the PF trial also, but I opted out. My PF is finally getting better and I don't want to risk anything. I heard that sometimes the machines increase pain. I finally figured out that my PF is from my tight calf muscles and stretching is definately working. I force myself to lightly stretch thoughout the day and my heels are feeling MUCH better. After 6 months of this, I finally see a possible ending.

So, maybe I'll see you on Saturday. If not, good luck. I hope you're getting the real thing. IF not, at least they will offer you the real treatment after the study is done.


Re: How long before you see results?

Dr. Zuckerman on 8/22/00 at 19:38 (026061)

In order to fake the treatment all you would have to do is turn the machine on and place the foot out of focus and there would be no pain. or effect. Do you want me to tell you what to look for ????
I could tell you what to look you in the placement of the foot and then you would know. I never could keep a secret or a surprise. So don't push me or I would tell you . Just kidding but I am sure the machine is on and the placement is different so that there is no effect.

Re: How long before you see results?

Nancy N on 8/22/00 at 20:54 (026069)

I am sure the machine is on, too--my understanding is that it is programmed to randomize 'real' and 'fake' treatments. Neither the doctors nor the patients know which one is being given. So I doubt that anything is deliberately out of focus, since they have to assume each time that a real treatment is being given, since they don't know for sure.

That's my understanding, anyway. The way I was situated at the time, I couldn't see anything anyway, so knowing what to look for wouldn't help much :)


Re: How long before you see results?

Nancy N on 8/21/00 at 17:32 (025948)

I should have included more information--the study is being done in two treatments, 400 seconds each (about 6.5 minutes). Doesn't seem like very lon to me compared to what I've seen on this site, but this is a different machine, so I don't know how much difference that makes. Anyway, if more information helps, I'll ve happy to provide it.

Re: How long before you see results?

Astrid Bierworth on 8/21/00 at 19:15 (025951)

My experience was with Sonorex, and I don't know how that compares to what you got. During the treatment, there was quite a bit of pain, but nothing which could not be tolerated. After the treatment, for about 24 hours, the area was quite numb, as the pain receptors were 'in shock'. I was told if you feel no pain during the treatment, they are not getting the right spot. You help them find the spot by the amount of pain you feel. The thing I disliked the most was the fact that the shock waves tried to exit by the bony things that stick out at the ankles and this was worse than hitting the spot.

My results occurred in the first few weeks, and I had 2 additional treatments (5 in all). I still have some pressure pain (if I put pressure on it), but I am now back to running (20 min.) in the morning, and I have recently added power walking (30 min.) in the evening. I have no ill effects from these activities. Before the treatment, a 5 km. walk made me limp for 2 days.

Hope this helps.

Astrid.


Re: How long before you see results?

Nancy N on 8/21/00 at 19:18 (025953)

Re: pain during treatment--I was given a shot of lidocaine to the painful area before the treatment, so I was quite numb during and after. Hopefully that doesn't mean they got the wrong area?

Re: How long before you see results?

Dr. Zuckerman on 8/21/00 at 19:58 (025956)

It is my understanding the the orthowave is a spark- gap technology with high energy. I saw the web site for this machine. I have found that using 16kv at three thousand pulses you should see something happen within days. If not wait two weeks repeat the treatment. This is my experience with doing eighty feet. I hope this helps.

Re: How long before you see results?

Barbara on 8/22/00 at 08:46 (025986)

Hi Nancy...I am also getting the FDA treatment at Montefiore in the Bronx. I'm getting it for my tennis elbow. Did you get the treatment last Monday? I think I may have passed you as you left the room. I was going in as you were leaving. I think I remember the doctor said your name was Nancy.

I'm also not so sure I'm getting the REAL treatment. Unlike the Ossatron trials, they don't drape off the machine, so you can see everything that's going on. The only way that I can figure that they de the placebo, is it to give you the treatment at a setting that's low enough to offer no benefit, but high enough to hurt. My treatment did hurt through the lidocane, but my elbow does not feel any better. My next treatment is this coming Saturday.


Re: How long before you see results?

Nancy N on 8/22/00 at 10:07 (026005)

I think I do remember you now! I didn't have any pain through the lidocaine, but the spot where they did the injection did hurt a little if I touched it after the medication wore off. From my understanding of the stuff they gave us to read/fill out, the placebo treatment is a very low setting, so your guess sounds right to me. I didn't want to take the Celebrex so I could tell what was going on, but since I have noticed no discernable difference since last Monday, I finally broke down and took one last night, but haven't noticed any difference there yet, either. So I guess at this point I am hoping that I got the placebo, because otherwise it doesn't seem to be working for me.

So you did an OssaTron trial as well? Was it for the same problem, or another one? What did you think of it? For the foot, they had me laying on my side, so I couldn't see much of how they did the treatment (but I wish I could have--I was very curious!)

I will be there on Saturday as well, so maybe I will see you (I'm going at 10am).

Nancy


Re: How long before you see results?

Barbara on 8/22/00 at 10:19 (026006)

I didn't have the Ossatron treatment, just read about the trials on this board.

My treatment is at 11.15, but last Monday they were running an hour and a half late. So, it may be a long day.

They gave me Vioxx, but I only took one. I find that Advil and Aleve do a better job. And I didn't take it for my elbow, I took it for my PF. They asked me if I wanted to be part of the PF trial also, but I opted out. My PF is finally getting better and I don't want to risk anything. I heard that sometimes the machines increase pain. I finally figured out that my PF is from my tight calf muscles and stretching is definately working. I force myself to lightly stretch thoughout the day and my heels are feeling MUCH better. After 6 months of this, I finally see a possible ending.

So, maybe I'll see you on Saturday. If not, good luck. I hope you're getting the real thing. IF not, at least they will offer you the real treatment after the study is done.


Re: How long before you see results?

Dr. Zuckerman on 8/22/00 at 19:38 (026061)

In order to fake the treatment all you would have to do is turn the machine on and place the foot out of focus and there would be no pain. or effect. Do you want me to tell you what to look for ????
I could tell you what to look you in the placement of the foot and then you would know. I never could keep a secret or a surprise. So don't push me or I would tell you . Just kidding but I am sure the machine is on and the placement is different so that there is no effect.

Re: How long before you see results?

Nancy N on 8/22/00 at 20:54 (026069)

I am sure the machine is on, too--my understanding is that it is programmed to randomize 'real' and 'fake' treatments. Neither the doctors nor the patients know which one is being given. So I doubt that anything is deliberately out of focus, since they have to assume each time that a real treatment is being given, since they don't know for sure.

That's my understanding, anyway. The way I was situated at the time, I couldn't see anything anyway, so knowing what to look for wouldn't help much :)