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New boards - note to Scott

Posted by wendyn on 8/27/00 at 17:12 (026399)

I think you're on to a good idea. I always click on the messages since last visit - so I see them all anyway. For folks who dislike the socializing on the board - they can avoid it by staying away from that one in particular. It is new, and not everyone will like it but I can see why you're giving it a shot. I think folks should give it 2 weeks and see what they think afterwards.

I do have two concerns.

First - the ask a doctor. You say that others can respond but that 80% of the responses should be from a doctor. Scott, I wouldn't put a percentage on...there's no way I'm going to go back out of a thread to see if 8 out of 10 responses are from a doctor. It should be for questions directed at the doctor, but I think that other patient feedback should be encouraged if someone has something to offer. This is vital because although Dr Z and his friend are intelligent and invaluable to this board - some of us may have additional experience or insight that can be helpful.For example - someone may direct a question at Dr Z about what nerve conduction tests are - and although he can certainly answer...other patient feedback can be really helpful. If just one doctors opinion was all that was needed - you wouldn't need a bulletin board patients would just go see there one doctor and that would be that.

For the 'Technical/scientific' - any chance of a name change on that one? It sounds a bit intimidating. I think you're after foot pain related problems only - without the socializing. For example - what is TTS, where does a foot with PF hurt, how many people have first morning pain etc. It's not really technical or scientific - it's just info from other patients. What about just calling it the main bulletin board - with a note that the 'socializing only' should be placed on the other board. That way they aren't archived with the rest and they don't 'clutter' or detract from the information being given.

What do you think?

I know you're busy, if you don't respond I'll email this to you to make sure you see it.

Re: New boards - note to Scott

Scott R on 8/27/00 at 17:16 (026403)

Yes, I'm not satisfied with the 'technical/scientific' name either. But I'm not sure 'Main Message Board' is best either. Do you have any other ideas? How about 'Non-Social Discussions'?

I'll change the 'Ask A Doctor' also.

Re: New boards - note to Scott

Pauline on 8/27/00 at 17:25 (026407)

What about 'social injustice for all'. Isn't this what is really is?

Re: New boards - note to Scott

Dr. Zuckerman on 8/27/00 at 18:55 (026423)

You have excellent insight. What is going on here is a feeling of abandonment. The beauty of this board when you go was that you had the feeling that people were there for you. There was a sense of caring on this board. It's now like going into an empty house. So let's get going and start the open house.

Re: New boards - note to Scott/name ideas.

Beverly on 8/27/00 at 19:14 (026426)

Well, this is going to take some getting used to.
But the nonsocial/tech section could be called: 'Just Foot Pain'
or 'Foot Pain Only.'

Beverly

Re: New boards - note to Scott/name ideas.

Stephanie S. on 8/27/00 at 19:40 (026429)

Pauline...I tend to agree with Dr. Zuckerman on his 'thoughts'....
I think 'we' all will work our way through it....it's a change....
and it's confusing right now.

I think we all 'feel a little abandoned'...but noone has left...
were just not sure exactly where we should go yet. ( My guess is
the 'social scene'...how bout'you?)

Scott must have his reasons for the change...we don't know...he
must feel the need to break up the board a bit...and that's ok.

I'm sure he does get alot of emails complaining of 'we social chat'
way too much and they just want informantion...not all the talk
that we tend to do at times.

Just chill!! It'll all work out...give him some time to get it
up and working....and getting us all use to it.

Scott...I agree with Wendyn...I don't like the 'Technical' either.
It does sound very intimidating. I like the 'Just Foot Pain'...and the idea of discouraging the social comments to that one particular board.

How bout' 'Social / Support for PF'......???.....the 'Ask the Doctor'...ugg...I don't know!!

Don't give up Scott....the change is just hard for some of us...and it is very confusing right now.

Stephanie S.

Re: To Stephanie and Dr Z----- New boards - note to Scott/name ideas.

Pauline on 8/27/00 at 20:57 (026433)

Under the newly perscribed rules no one should dare put Dr Z's name on this board but there are those of us who tend to live on the edge.
To both of you, no I do not feel any sense of abandonment only anger
that Scott has abandon all conscience in giving in to his tendency
to micromanage and disect a perfectly fine system.

Like government nothing that is working can be maintained, instead
'fixes' have to be applied to create something more complex and less useful.

I personally liked having Dr Z and Dr B joining us on the PF Board. They responded like friends, one of us and although I thought of them like this I never lost sight of the fact that they were both Doctors. I think they are respected by all who post.

Scott without care has chosen to change their relationship with us by first asking us to pay them when we post, then making it a donation and now simply putting them on a separate board.

It makes one wonder what was the real motive here. Was it really to improve on something that was already working just fine or was it
simply a way to extort money? When the original motive didn't fly
other reasons had to be created. I don't think you simply wake up
one day and throw out a 'pay as you ask' web page. No this was a calculated move that didn't get the expected response.

I don't think the abandonment case holds water--- I think this is
a case of micromanaged, profit seeking compulsive behavor inspite of what others think. You know the 'my way or the highway' attitude.

I think we have to be more concerned about motives than abandonment.

Re: New boards - note to Scott/name ideas.

wendyn on 8/27/00 at 21:08 (026434)

I like the 'Just foot Pain' or 'Questions and Answers to Foot pain problems'.... something like that for the 'Technical' board. You could just have your note that it's for _ON_ topic discussions only. If people get side tracked you could probably just point them to the social board.

This really is not a big stretch folks. If you used to use 'View messages since your last visit' you can still use it. There won't be any significant difference for anyone using that button. Just like the ESWT board - if you didn't specifically go there, you could still see the posts and respond if you wanted using the 'View messages since your last visit'. No chance of missing anything that way.

The only time it will be different is if you go to a specific board to post a question, or to view only those threads. This does give people the option though, and it's an option that they didn't have before.

I know it's new - but please give it a chance and don't write it off just because it's different. Try the two weeks and see if it gets a little easier - give Scott a break...it's his board and he only wants to make it better. I agree that for newcomers our festive social atmosphere may almost discourage them from entering discussions. (Not because we're _too_ friendly but it may seem more 'cliquey' than it really is). I'd hate to scare anyone away.

I also really like being able to chat about personal lives, kids, baking our orthotics etc...and I like the idea that it gives a little more freedom to post about stuff that is off the foot pain topic, without worrying about cluttering up Scott's computer space with our chats.

If there's something you really dislike or would like to see modified - be specific. What in particular are you having a problem with? What would make it better? Just saying 'I hate it' isn't going to help finding a way to make it better.

Re: New boards - I'm open, but see two problems (for myself, anyway)

Nancy S. on 8/27/00 at 21:53 (026438)

I'm certainly willing to give anything here a try.
My two problems so far are these:
(1) When I click to view ALL messages (which I will always do), there may be 15 new messages and, say, 3 that I want to respond to. So I respond to one for starters -- and end up losing the others. I have to go searching for them on other boards in order to respond to them, unless I write down with paper and pen something about the message and note which board it's on. Before, those messages I wanted to answer would just pop out at me when the board index reappeared.
(2) I am going to have trouble sticking to the categories -- I just don't easily separate my approach to people into categories. I may end up having to make more posts, to the same people but on different boards, when in the past I could include everything in one post. Fragmenting and pigeon-holing one's thoughts is a lot harder for some people than others.
These things said, I repeat that I will try.
I see no reason at all to question Scott's motives in trying something new. After all, this site is a gift, thanks to Scott. It isn't a natural-born right. I think throwing mud at his character is highly inappropriate.
Nancy

Re: New boards - I'm open, but see two problems (for myself, anyway)

Scott R on 8/27/00 at 22:17 (026439)

Nancy, you said there was a difference between the way messages popped up now verses before when you 'view all message since your last visit'. There must be something going on with webtv again, because it's the same program as before.

Re: New boards - I'm open, but see two problems (for myself, anyway)

Nancy S. on 8/27/00 at 22:28 (026440)

Scott, no, it's the same as always (at least with me and webtv). I would respond to one message right from the 'view all messages since last visit' and, after responding to the one message, end up back at the message board index. There I would search for, and usually find easily, any further new messages I wanted to respond to.
The same thing happens now, only I have more message board indexes to check.
But I think you just added something that will nullify this 'problem'! You just now added something like 'view all messages in one index list.' So I can just go there to finish responding to new messages -- I hope. I haven't tried it yet, but should be okay.
Nancy

Re: New boards - I'm open, but see two problems (for myself, anyway)

wendyn on 8/27/00 at 22:36 (026442)

Nancy I think all you have to do is hit either the back key or close the new window. This always took me back to the list so I could continue reading and respond again if I wanted. Experiment a bit after you've read the messages.

Re: Responding to posts.

wendyn on 8/27/00 at 22:41 (026443)

Yep - works for me. I just close the new window with the x in the top right hand corner and it takes me back to the original list. Try it Nancy, maybe it's something you could do before but you just didn't know it.

I think this new index feature should help out the people who don't like the message board split - this gives them exactly what they had before except that if they want to start a new thread they have to pick a board to start it on. I don't think anyone will have too much difficulty with that.

I like the TTS board idea, I don't know if you'll have enough folks for a separate stress fracture board.

Re: Scott: Technical problem posts open slowly & social dynamics of change

Beverly on 8/27/00 at 23:04 (026446)

Scott,

I'm having a technical problem. When I click to open a post, it takes a long, long time to open. I've just noticed this since the site has been changed. I'm wondering if anyone else is having that problem. I have an
i-Mac. Like many Mac users, I am not very technically savvy.

The way we are reacting to this change is a great study in the social dynamics of change. I've read a bit in that area. From what I have read, the best way to introduce people to change is first to toss it out as a possiblity, but don't say it's about to happen. Just mention it. Next, the change proposal is introduced again. This time specific changes are discussed. Then, finally, the third time, the change is introduced.

Social theory says that people need to hear about a new idea/change on three separate gatherings. It helps people adapt. Introduce something once and then change, and people tend to freak out.

If you think back to the discussions we have had before about the need to be less chatty on the board/stay focused and how some liked chat/support and others just wanted 'foot pain only' stuff, this is a logical outcome. If we can just adapt, it is a win-win situation. It did perhaps get changed a bit fast since the proposal to change just popped up a couple of days ago, but like Wendyn, said, we'll live.

I think we need to get on with things. It is Scott's site. He is the one who keeps it going.

If we really value newcomers, we will stop debating this and just try it. If I came here this weekend as a newcomer, I would think this board was embroiled in interpersonal conflict, and click off.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think we need to just try it.
Yes, there will be overlaps. I agree with Nancy there. I am not good at putting myself into a box, but I'm willing to give this new way a try.

I will add one more thing. Asking posters to say very little in the ask a doc section may not make sense. If I ask about say, shots, I want the doctor's opinion, but I also want to know about other people's experiences.


Beverly
PS to Scott: I've got to chuckle sitting back watching you get the blasting from those of us having trouble adapting. In my own work, I have often seen something that needed to be 'fixed' and rushed into fix it. I had a 'vision' no one else could see. Needless to say, it did not make me the most popular kid on the block. If your getting frustrated with us about now, you would get a good laugh out of 'Who Moved My Cheese' if you have not already read it.

Re: Responding to posts.

Nancy S. on 8/27/00 at 23:07 (026447)

Doesn't work for me, Wendy. WebTVland doesn't have windows or anything fancy. I do have a 'back' key, though! But it just takes me back and back and back, the way I came in, until I end up at my home menu.
Once I've interrupted the 'view all messages' by responding to one, I can't get back to it, it's gone for good. This has always made responding to messages a bit of a challenge for me, but as you've noticed it hasn't stopped me.
Thanks anyhow --
Nancy

Re: New boards - note to Scott

john h on 8/28/00 at 08:39 (026461)

i tend to agree with wendy that patients often have something to offer in 'ask the doctor' that a doctor may not have experienced and may be of value to the sufferer. dr z may be on vacation in the bahamas. i have no problem with the new board format and think over time it will probably work better. like anything new we will have to work through the bugs.

Re: New boards - note to Scott

Scott R on 8/27/00 at 17:16 (026403)

Yes, I'm not satisfied with the 'technical/scientific' name either. But I'm not sure 'Main Message Board' is best either. Do you have any other ideas? How about 'Non-Social Discussions'?

I'll change the 'Ask A Doctor' also.

Re: New boards - note to Scott

Pauline on 8/27/00 at 17:25 (026407)

What about 'social injustice for all'. Isn't this what is really is?

Re: New boards - note to Scott

Dr. Zuckerman on 8/27/00 at 18:55 (026423)

You have excellent insight. What is going on here is a feeling of abandonment. The beauty of this board when you go was that you had the feeling that people were there for you. There was a sense of caring on this board. It's now like going into an empty house. So let's get going and start the open house.

Re: New boards - note to Scott/name ideas.

Beverly on 8/27/00 at 19:14 (026426)

Well, this is going to take some getting used to.
But the nonsocial/tech section could be called: 'Just Foot Pain'
or 'Foot Pain Only.'

Beverly

Re: New boards - note to Scott/name ideas.

Stephanie S. on 8/27/00 at 19:40 (026429)

Pauline...I tend to agree with Dr. Zuckerman on his 'thoughts'....
I think 'we' all will work our way through it....it's a change....
and it's confusing right now.

I think we all 'feel a little abandoned'...but noone has left...
were just not sure exactly where we should go yet. ( My guess is
the 'social scene'...how bout'you?)

Scott must have his reasons for the change...we don't know...he
must feel the need to break up the board a bit...and that's ok.

I'm sure he does get alot of emails complaining of 'we social chat'
way too much and they just want informantion...not all the talk
that we tend to do at times.

Just chill!! It'll all work out...give him some time to get it
up and working....and getting us all use to it.

Scott...I agree with Wendyn...I don't like the 'Technical' either.
It does sound very intimidating. I like the 'Just Foot Pain'...and the idea of discouraging the social comments to that one particular board.

How bout' 'Social / Support for PF'......???.....the 'Ask the Doctor'...ugg...I don't know!!

Don't give up Scott....the change is just hard for some of us...and it is very confusing right now.

Stephanie S.

Re: To Stephanie and Dr Z----- New boards - note to Scott/name ideas.

Pauline on 8/27/00 at 20:57 (026433)

Under the newly perscribed rules no one should dare put Dr Z's name on this board but there are those of us who tend to live on the edge.
To both of you, no I do not feel any sense of abandonment only anger
that Scott has abandon all conscience in giving in to his tendency
to micromanage and disect a perfectly fine system.

Like government nothing that is working can be maintained, instead
'fixes' have to be applied to create something more complex and less useful.

I personally liked having Dr Z and Dr B joining us on the PF Board. They responded like friends, one of us and although I thought of them like this I never lost sight of the fact that they were both Doctors. I think they are respected by all who post.

Scott without care has chosen to change their relationship with us by first asking us to pay them when we post, then making it a donation and now simply putting them on a separate board.

It makes one wonder what was the real motive here. Was it really to improve on something that was already working just fine or was it
simply a way to extort money? When the original motive didn't fly
other reasons had to be created. I don't think you simply wake up
one day and throw out a 'pay as you ask' web page. No this was a calculated move that didn't get the expected response.

I don't think the abandonment case holds water--- I think this is
a case of micromanaged, profit seeking compulsive behavor inspite of what others think. You know the 'my way or the highway' attitude.

I think we have to be more concerned about motives than abandonment.

Re: New boards - note to Scott/name ideas.

wendyn on 8/27/00 at 21:08 (026434)

I like the 'Just foot Pain' or 'Questions and Answers to Foot pain problems'.... something like that for the 'Technical' board. You could just have your note that it's for _ON_ topic discussions only. If people get side tracked you could probably just point them to the social board.

This really is not a big stretch folks. If you used to use 'View messages since your last visit' you can still use it. There won't be any significant difference for anyone using that button. Just like the ESWT board - if you didn't specifically go there, you could still see the posts and respond if you wanted using the 'View messages since your last visit'. No chance of missing anything that way.

The only time it will be different is if you go to a specific board to post a question, or to view only those threads. This does give people the option though, and it's an option that they didn't have before.

I know it's new - but please give it a chance and don't write it off just because it's different. Try the two weeks and see if it gets a little easier - give Scott a break...it's his board and he only wants to make it better. I agree that for newcomers our festive social atmosphere may almost discourage them from entering discussions. (Not because we're _too_ friendly but it may seem more 'cliquey' than it really is). I'd hate to scare anyone away.

I also really like being able to chat about personal lives, kids, baking our orthotics etc...and I like the idea that it gives a little more freedom to post about stuff that is off the foot pain topic, without worrying about cluttering up Scott's computer space with our chats.

If there's something you really dislike or would like to see modified - be specific. What in particular are you having a problem with? What would make it better? Just saying 'I hate it' isn't going to help finding a way to make it better.

Re: New boards - I'm open, but see two problems (for myself, anyway)

Nancy S. on 8/27/00 at 21:53 (026438)

I'm certainly willing to give anything here a try.
My two problems so far are these:
(1) When I click to view ALL messages (which I will always do), there may be 15 new messages and, say, 3 that I want to respond to. So I respond to one for starters -- and end up losing the others. I have to go searching for them on other boards in order to respond to them, unless I write down with paper and pen something about the message and note which board it's on. Before, those messages I wanted to answer would just pop out at me when the board index reappeared.
(2) I am going to have trouble sticking to the categories -- I just don't easily separate my approach to people into categories. I may end up having to make more posts, to the same people but on different boards, when in the past I could include everything in one post. Fragmenting and pigeon-holing one's thoughts is a lot harder for some people than others.
These things said, I repeat that I will try.
I see no reason at all to question Scott's motives in trying something new. After all, this site is a gift, thanks to Scott. It isn't a natural-born right. I think throwing mud at his character is highly inappropriate.
Nancy

Re: New boards - I'm open, but see two problems (for myself, anyway)

Scott R on 8/27/00 at 22:17 (026439)

Nancy, you said there was a difference between the way messages popped up now verses before when you 'view all message since your last visit'. There must be something going on with webtv again, because it's the same program as before.

Re: New boards - I'm open, but see two problems (for myself, anyway)

Nancy S. on 8/27/00 at 22:28 (026440)

Scott, no, it's the same as always (at least with me and webtv). I would respond to one message right from the 'view all messages since last visit' and, after responding to the one message, end up back at the message board index. There I would search for, and usually find easily, any further new messages I wanted to respond to.
The same thing happens now, only I have more message board indexes to check.
But I think you just added something that will nullify this 'problem'! You just now added something like 'view all messages in one index list.' So I can just go there to finish responding to new messages -- I hope. I haven't tried it yet, but should be okay.
Nancy

Re: New boards - I'm open, but see two problems (for myself, anyway)

wendyn on 8/27/00 at 22:36 (026442)

Nancy I think all you have to do is hit either the back key or close the new window. This always took me back to the list so I could continue reading and respond again if I wanted. Experiment a bit after you've read the messages.

Re: Responding to posts.

wendyn on 8/27/00 at 22:41 (026443)

Yep - works for me. I just close the new window with the x in the top right hand corner and it takes me back to the original list. Try it Nancy, maybe it's something you could do before but you just didn't know it.

I think this new index feature should help out the people who don't like the message board split - this gives them exactly what they had before except that if they want to start a new thread they have to pick a board to start it on. I don't think anyone will have too much difficulty with that.

I like the TTS board idea, I don't know if you'll have enough folks for a separate stress fracture board.

Re: Scott: Technical problem posts open slowly & social dynamics of change

Beverly on 8/27/00 at 23:04 (026446)

Scott,

I'm having a technical problem. When I click to open a post, it takes a long, long time to open. I've just noticed this since the site has been changed. I'm wondering if anyone else is having that problem. I have an
i-Mac. Like many Mac users, I am not very technically savvy.

The way we are reacting to this change is a great study in the social dynamics of change. I've read a bit in that area. From what I have read, the best way to introduce people to change is first to toss it out as a possiblity, but don't say it's about to happen. Just mention it. Next, the change proposal is introduced again. This time specific changes are discussed. Then, finally, the third time, the change is introduced.

Social theory says that people need to hear about a new idea/change on three separate gatherings. It helps people adapt. Introduce something once and then change, and people tend to freak out.

If you think back to the discussions we have had before about the need to be less chatty on the board/stay focused and how some liked chat/support and others just wanted 'foot pain only' stuff, this is a logical outcome. If we can just adapt, it is a win-win situation. It did perhaps get changed a bit fast since the proposal to change just popped up a couple of days ago, but like Wendyn, said, we'll live.

I think we need to get on with things. It is Scott's site. He is the one who keeps it going.

If we really value newcomers, we will stop debating this and just try it. If I came here this weekend as a newcomer, I would think this board was embroiled in interpersonal conflict, and click off.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think we need to just try it.
Yes, there will be overlaps. I agree with Nancy there. I am not good at putting myself into a box, but I'm willing to give this new way a try.

I will add one more thing. Asking posters to say very little in the ask a doc section may not make sense. If I ask about say, shots, I want the doctor's opinion, but I also want to know about other people's experiences.


Beverly
PS to Scott: I've got to chuckle sitting back watching you get the blasting from those of us having trouble adapting. In my own work, I have often seen something that needed to be 'fixed' and rushed into fix it. I had a 'vision' no one else could see. Needless to say, it did not make me the most popular kid on the block. If your getting frustrated with us about now, you would get a good laugh out of 'Who Moved My Cheese' if you have not already read it.

Re: Responding to posts.

Nancy S. on 8/27/00 at 23:07 (026447)

Doesn't work for me, Wendy. WebTVland doesn't have windows or anything fancy. I do have a 'back' key, though! But it just takes me back and back and back, the way I came in, until I end up at my home menu.
Once I've interrupted the 'view all messages' by responding to one, I can't get back to it, it's gone for good. This has always made responding to messages a bit of a challenge for me, but as you've noticed it hasn't stopped me.
Thanks anyhow --
Nancy

Re: New boards - note to Scott

john h on 8/28/00 at 08:39 (026461)

i tend to agree with wendy that patients often have something to offer in 'ask the doctor' that a doctor may not have experienced and may be of value to the sufferer. dr z may be on vacation in the bahamas. i have no problem with the new board format and think over time it will probably work better. like anything new we will have to work through the bugs.