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FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

Posted by JUDY S on 8/28/00 at 13:16 (026494)

IF I HAVE NEVER HAD SHARP PAIN WITH FIRST STEPS IN THE A.M. OR AFTER SITTING A WHILE. (HAD AN INTENSE ACHING AFTER STANDING IN ONE PLACE FOR A FEW MINUTES). I ALSO HAVE A NEGATIVE TINNEL'S SIGN. COULD IT BE THAT I DON'T HAVE EITHER PF OR TTS?? WHAT ELSE COULD BE THE PROBLEM?

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

Nancy S. on 8/28/00 at 13:44 (026497)

Hi new Judy S -- While you await the doctors' replies, may I make two suggestions?
(1) There is already a Judy S on this board. Could you modify your last-name initial somehow, so we can tell the two of you apart?
(2) Typing in all-caps is considered 'screaming' on the Internet, and it's also difficult to read. Would you use lowercase please?
Thanks!

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

Dr. Biehler on 8/28/00 at 13:51 (026499)

Judy, You do not have the classic symptoms of tts or pf. How long have you been getting the intense aching after standing in one spot? Depending on you age, sometimes the decrease in fat pad under the heel will allow a pain in that area. Where is your pain? Dr. Biehler

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

JUDY S on 8/28/00 at 14:07 (026504)

The intense aching began after being given rigid orthotics for my bunions and walking 2.5 miles in them 4 days later (I was not told that I needed to wean into them). The pain was in the middle of my heel. My feet were reinjured when I was given a pair of semi-rigid orthotics that had a post in the middle of the heel. Since then I have not been able to stand in one place to see if the intense aching is still there. I now have swelling right across the front of my heel, raw/burning/tingly sensation while walking with my orthotics (now have a pair of leather semi-rigid) I was in a pair of boot casts for 9 weeks (up until 6/00) and was using wheelchair/crutches for two months prior to that. I pretty much walk from point A to point B and sit. No standing around! I'm at home and walking very little.

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

JUDY S on 8/28/00 at 14:08 (026506)

Sorry.....I'm new at this......will make changes!!

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

JudyS on 8/28/00 at 14:11 (026509)

Wow - you're quick! Where are you from? I was just reading about your experiences with your orthotics. Sounds like experiences many here have had. Have you seen a Pedorthist to have those orthotics fitted just right? I know what you mean about that post being right under the sore spot of the heel and it just makes it worse. I have one or two pair of shoes that do the same thing so I leave them alone.

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

Dr. Biehler on 8/28/00 at 14:14 (026510)

When was you heel x-rayed? Dr .Biehler

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

alan k on 8/28/00 at 15:14 (026517)

I have a similar history, although I did later develop classic pf symptoms but only mildly.

There are many places in which the nerves of the feet can become entrapped. It is also possible to have an entrapment in the spine which shows up in the feet.

An MRI on both feet and spine would be helpful, but may indeed still turn up negative.

You may wind up like me: in ambiguity-ville. After I eliminated classic pf symptoms I still did not get pain-free, but I did have some mild tinnel sign in one foot, but not the one that hurt more. It's still a mystery why I can't get rid of the last of the pain but I believe it has something to do with the tts I developed while wearing my hard orthotics. Exercise and massage help alot and slowly make me better day by day.

Do search for a correct diagnosis (like stress fracture for instance) but also pursue conservative treatments like exercises and icing, etc. in the meantime.


alan k

http://www.acutai.com

Re: To New Judy S

wendyn on 8/28/00 at 17:57 (026530)

New Judy S - you're symptoms are familiar. Alan and I (and I know there are others) have had similar problems that (in retrospect) appear to be directly related to rigid orthotics. Your symptoms sound almost identical to what I had, but I was eventually positive for Tinnel's.

I too had bunions, and this was initially why I got my first pair of orthotics. I would take bunions any day over the new pain.

Any chance of you getting out of the orthotics for a while to see if it helps?

I quit wearing my orthotics last summer and I'm still slowly improving. I did see an almost immediate improvement though as soon as I switched to Birks.

It may be worth a try, or at least have your orthotics adjusted.

Let us know what happens....

Re: To New Judy S

Dr. Zuckerman on 8/28/00 at 21:06 (026546)

Now don't get mad Dr. Biehler. If you have no pain in the bunions and that was the reason for the orthosis. Get rid of them. I am asuming that you are at least thirty years old. I have never and will never order orthosis for bunions so long as you aren't a runner, or very active in sports. There is no scientific proof that orthosis will stop the progession of the deformity, they will however stop the pain . Dr. Biehler is an expert in the biomechanical function of the human foot so I only would prescribe an orthosis if he made the device for bunion pain.

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

Judy B on 8/30/00 at 12:45 (026739)

I changed my name to Judy B so you can be Judy S!! I'm from north central Massachusetts. My leather semi-rigid orthotics were made by an podorthist. I think I need to work with him to get them adjusted just right. I seemed to be having trouble tolerating the arch but he said that my molds were made to make the arch like my feet are at rest. Do you know of anyone having trouble with the arch height when they have been custom made? This PF is getting real old!! You all seem so supportive of one another....I'm glad I found this site.

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

Judy S (now Judy B) on 8/30/00 at 12:53 (026741)

I had xrays taken of my feet approx a yr after my injury with the rigid orthotics and again this past April prior to going into the boot casts.

Re: To New Judy S

Judy B (formerly the second Judy S) on 8/30/00 at 13:02 (026742)

Wendyn: It's so nice to find someone with atleast a similar hx! Did you have bunion surgery (I have not)? If so did it help with the other foot pain. I've been told by a podiatrist and an ortho surgeon that the two are not related, but I read somewhere on the internet that they could be related. Yes, bunions beat Pf any day! When you quit your orthotics did you hurt your feet after being used to the arch support....what kind of shoes did you wear without orthotics? I do think I need maybe get the orthotics adjusted or change the shoes I'm using.......it's so hard to know what to change!

Re: To New Judy S

Judy B (new Judy S) on 8/30/00 at 13:24 (026743)

Dr. Z..I did get rid of the rigid orthotics. I only wish I knew not to treat bunions that are not painful...I think that this podiatrist was out to get the $350 for the orthotic not caring what the consequences might be for the pt. Someone on the board suggested I might try getting rid of orthotics altogether...what do you think. I did have some heel pain prior to these rigid orthotics which was alleviated with heel cushions and another reinjury after the rigid orthotics with semi-rigid orthotic with a post in the middle of the heel. Would this be a problem (especially after being in the cast boots for 9 weeks )? As mentioned before, I now have a pair of semi-rigid orhtotics made by a podorthist which I think may need adjusting (I seem to have trouble tolerating the arch and get pressure where I have swelling in front of the heel which seems to aggravate my problem) Have you heard of orthotics with a groove incorporated to relieve the pressure in this area? Would lowering the arch make things worse (increase stretching on weightbearing)...the mold of my foot was made while sitting in a resting position). I feel like such a pest with all my questions!!!

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

Judy B (new Judy S) on 8/30/00 at 13:33 (026745)

alan...I did have a NCS which showed no spine problem but did show a mild tts however I have a negative tinnel's sign and so the ortho did not want to treat it as she wasn't convinced I really have it. MRI showed only swelling and some bruising. Bone scan/xrays showed no fx. Am plugging away with stretching etc........seems to be no end in sight.

Re: To New Judy S

wendyn on 8/30/00 at 16:13 (026762)

I had bunion surgery at the age of around 22. I had a dorsal bunion (bunion on top of my big toe pushing my toe down). It was causing me enough pain to warrant surgery. The bunion surgery was painful, but I don't usually ever have pain now in that joint. It did not affect the rest of my foot. I had the bunion surgery about 8 or 9 years ago. It was well worth it for me, I would not have the surgery though if the bunion wasn't causing significant pain. Bunion surgery really hurts.

I switched from orthotics to birks. I did not have PF when I did that, I had TTS. I didn't experience an increase in pain - but a significant decrease.

I don't know what exactly has caused my current set back. I am not a happy camper though. Today was awful. Tomorrow has to be better - headed back to the couch!

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

Nancy S. on 8/28/00 at 13:44 (026497)

Hi new Judy S -- While you await the doctors' replies, may I make two suggestions?
(1) There is already a Judy S on this board. Could you modify your last-name initial somehow, so we can tell the two of you apart?
(2) Typing in all-caps is considered 'screaming' on the Internet, and it's also difficult to read. Would you use lowercase please?
Thanks!

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

Dr. Biehler on 8/28/00 at 13:51 (026499)

Judy, You do not have the classic symptoms of tts or pf. How long have you been getting the intense aching after standing in one spot? Depending on you age, sometimes the decrease in fat pad under the heel will allow a pain in that area. Where is your pain? Dr. Biehler

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

JUDY S on 8/28/00 at 14:07 (026504)

The intense aching began after being given rigid orthotics for my bunions and walking 2.5 miles in them 4 days later (I was not told that I needed to wean into them). The pain was in the middle of my heel. My feet were reinjured when I was given a pair of semi-rigid orthotics that had a post in the middle of the heel. Since then I have not been able to stand in one place to see if the intense aching is still there. I now have swelling right across the front of my heel, raw/burning/tingly sensation while walking with my orthotics (now have a pair of leather semi-rigid) I was in a pair of boot casts for 9 weeks (up until 6/00) and was using wheelchair/crutches for two months prior to that. I pretty much walk from point A to point B and sit. No standing around! I'm at home and walking very little.

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

JUDY S on 8/28/00 at 14:08 (026506)

Sorry.....I'm new at this......will make changes!!

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

JudyS on 8/28/00 at 14:11 (026509)

Wow - you're quick! Where are you from? I was just reading about your experiences with your orthotics. Sounds like experiences many here have had. Have you seen a Pedorthist to have those orthotics fitted just right? I know what you mean about that post being right under the sore spot of the heel and it just makes it worse. I have one or two pair of shoes that do the same thing so I leave them alone.

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

Dr. Biehler on 8/28/00 at 14:14 (026510)

When was you heel x-rayed? Dr .Biehler

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

alan k on 8/28/00 at 15:14 (026517)

I have a similar history, although I did later develop classic pf symptoms but only mildly.

There are many places in which the nerves of the feet can become entrapped. It is also possible to have an entrapment in the spine which shows up in the feet.

An MRI on both feet and spine would be helpful, but may indeed still turn up negative.

You may wind up like me: in ambiguity-ville. After I eliminated classic pf symptoms I still did not get pain-free, but I did have some mild tinnel sign in one foot, but not the one that hurt more. It's still a mystery why I can't get rid of the last of the pain but I believe it has something to do with the tts I developed while wearing my hard orthotics. Exercise and massage help alot and slowly make me better day by day.

Do search for a correct diagnosis (like stress fracture for instance) but also pursue conservative treatments like exercises and icing, etc. in the meantime.


alan k

http://www.acutai.com

Re: To New Judy S

wendyn on 8/28/00 at 17:57 (026530)

New Judy S - you're symptoms are familiar. Alan and I (and I know there are others) have had similar problems that (in retrospect) appear to be directly related to rigid orthotics. Your symptoms sound almost identical to what I had, but I was eventually positive for Tinnel's.

I too had bunions, and this was initially why I got my first pair of orthotics. I would take bunions any day over the new pain.

Any chance of you getting out of the orthotics for a while to see if it helps?

I quit wearing my orthotics last summer and I'm still slowly improving. I did see an almost immediate improvement though as soon as I switched to Birks.

It may be worth a try, or at least have your orthotics adjusted.

Let us know what happens....

Re: To New Judy S

Dr. Zuckerman on 8/28/00 at 21:06 (026546)

Now don't get mad Dr. Biehler. If you have no pain in the bunions and that was the reason for the orthosis. Get rid of them. I am asuming that you are at least thirty years old. I have never and will never order orthosis for bunions so long as you aren't a runner, or very active in sports. There is no scientific proof that orthosis will stop the progession of the deformity, they will however stop the pain . Dr. Biehler is an expert in the biomechanical function of the human foot so I only would prescribe an orthosis if he made the device for bunion pain.

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

Judy B on 8/30/00 at 12:45 (026739)

I changed my name to Judy B so you can be Judy S!! I'm from north central Massachusetts. My leather semi-rigid orthotics were made by an podorthist. I think I need to work with him to get them adjusted just right. I seemed to be having trouble tolerating the arch but he said that my molds were made to make the arch like my feet are at rest. Do you know of anyone having trouble with the arch height when they have been custom made? This PF is getting real old!! You all seem so supportive of one another....I'm glad I found this site.

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

Judy S (now Judy B) on 8/30/00 at 12:53 (026741)

I had xrays taken of my feet approx a yr after my injury with the rigid orthotics and again this past April prior to going into the boot casts.

Re: To New Judy S

Judy B (formerly the second Judy S) on 8/30/00 at 13:02 (026742)

Wendyn: It's so nice to find someone with atleast a similar hx! Did you have bunion surgery (I have not)? If so did it help with the other foot pain. I've been told by a podiatrist and an ortho surgeon that the two are not related, but I read somewhere on the internet that they could be related. Yes, bunions beat Pf any day! When you quit your orthotics did you hurt your feet after being used to the arch support....what kind of shoes did you wear without orthotics? I do think I need maybe get the orthotics adjusted or change the shoes I'm using.......it's so hard to know what to change!

Re: To New Judy S

Judy B (new Judy S) on 8/30/00 at 13:24 (026743)

Dr. Z..I did get rid of the rigid orthotics. I only wish I knew not to treat bunions that are not painful...I think that this podiatrist was out to get the $350 for the orthotic not caring what the consequences might be for the pt. Someone on the board suggested I might try getting rid of orthotics altogether...what do you think. I did have some heel pain prior to these rigid orthotics which was alleviated with heel cushions and another reinjury after the rigid orthotics with semi-rigid orthotic with a post in the middle of the heel. Would this be a problem (especially after being in the cast boots for 9 weeks )? As mentioned before, I now have a pair of semi-rigid orhtotics made by a podorthist which I think may need adjusting (I seem to have trouble tolerating the arch and get pressure where I have swelling in front of the heel which seems to aggravate my problem) Have you heard of orthotics with a groove incorporated to relieve the pressure in this area? Would lowering the arch make things worse (increase stretching on weightbearing)...the mold of my foot was made while sitting in a resting position). I feel like such a pest with all my questions!!!

Re: FOLLOWUP TO 8/25 DESPARATE MESSAGE

Judy B (new Judy S) on 8/30/00 at 13:33 (026745)

alan...I did have a NCS which showed no spine problem but did show a mild tts however I have a negative tinnel's sign and so the ortho did not want to treat it as she wasn't convinced I really have it. MRI showed only swelling and some bruising. Bone scan/xrays showed no fx. Am plugging away with stretching etc........seems to be no end in sight.

Re: To New Judy S

wendyn on 8/30/00 at 16:13 (026762)

I had bunion surgery at the age of around 22. I had a dorsal bunion (bunion on top of my big toe pushing my toe down). It was causing me enough pain to warrant surgery. The bunion surgery was painful, but I don't usually ever have pain now in that joint. It did not affect the rest of my foot. I had the bunion surgery about 8 or 9 years ago. It was well worth it for me, I would not have the surgery though if the bunion wasn't causing significant pain. Bunion surgery really hurts.

I switched from orthotics to birks. I did not have PF when I did that, I had TTS. I didn't experience an increase in pain - but a significant decrease.

I don't know what exactly has caused my current set back. I am not a happy camper though. Today was awful. Tomorrow has to be better - headed back to the couch!