Home The Book Dr Articles Products Message Boards Journal Articles Search Our Surveys Surgery ESWT Dr Messages Find Good Drs video

Discouraged

Posted by Dena on 9/04/00 at 16:56 (027176)

Hope you don't mind me posting. I'm just so dang discouraged. This foot stuff has just about ruined what little life I've been able to put together since my divorce. I may have to quit choir because I can't stand. Now my knees and hips are being affected.

I'm sure from the research I've done that it's plantar's facitis in both feet. Unfortunately, my insurance (Kaiser HMO) doesn't cover treatment for feet so I'm on my own. Since I survive on disability insurance only, I can't afford to keep shelling out money for Dr. Scholl stuff any more. Because I've run out of money, I can't afford the more expensive, custom orthotics.

I have a serious problem with suicidal depression as a result of a brain injury 12 yrs ago. Having Mr. Charming run off with his secretary after 22 yrs. didn't help in the stress department. This foot stuff and the impact that it's having on my life (I can't even participate in the water classes anymore because they are just too painful) has got the depression cranked up again.

I know that I'm dumping more information and emotions on people than they are interested in knowing .. I'm just tired today and am tired of hurting and not seeing an end in sight. :-(

Re: Discouraged

JudyS on 9/04/00 at 18:52 (027178)

Dena, there's no way anyone here would 'mind' you posting! We like you already! Could I just mention quickly that 'Mr. Charming' wasn't really? Easy for an outsider to say, I know, but at a certain level it's easy for an outsider to see.
It hurts so much when someone here has to deal with depression - it's so very difficult to have to allow one's feet (or one's Ex) to have that much power. I sincerely hope that you're being treated properly for your suicidal issues because that part of you is working in 'catch-22' mode with your feet.
Believe me, absolutely everything you're experiencing with your feet is the same thing everyone else here is experiencing! From so-so doctors to expensive orthotics to eliminating/modifying favorite activities. The bottom line lies in the chronic nature of Plantar Fasciitis. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't heal. most times it does. It's a matter of treating yourself sensibly (read Scott's PF Book on this site) and continuing to take charge of your treatment options. I'm very surprised that your Kaiser HMO doesn't provide you with orthopedic or podiatric treatment. Is yours a limited coverage? Otherwise, you shouldn't have any trouble at all with Kaiser - in fact, you should at least be able to see your Primary Care physician with your PF symptoms. Also, if they're treating you for depression, you should be able to talk with that treating physician about your feet.
You will find MANY supportive and empathetic friends on this website so I hope you'll use it regularly to learn more about PF and to begin to get a sense that YOU can be in charge of IT instead of the other way around. That's about half the battle.
I look forward to hearing more from you.

Re: Discouraged

Steve P on 9/04/00 at 20:12 (027181)

Dena -- I suggest you go to your GP & get a diagnosis. See if the GP agrees that it is PF. If so, he may prescibe medication himself (e.g., anti-inflammatory) or may refer you to a specialist, depending on the severity of the condition, etc.
I've never heard of an HMO that won't allow the GP to refer a foot problem to an Orthopedist or Podiatrist. Are you sure of this?
In any case, please at least see your GP. Self-diagnosis is not the way to go.
Good luck & keep us informed!

Re: Vitamin C

Scott R on 9/04/00 at 20:45 (027187)

I have what may seem like a strange suggestion. Vitamin C. As much as you can take as long as it doesn't cause gas and diarrhea. It can relieve a great deal of stress. I mix 1 teaspoon of the the powder with orange juice 3 or 4 times a day. It relieved a great deal of strss in my life. So far my life can be marked by 3 turning events. College, Rosemary, and vitamin C. heelspurs.com does not yet make the list because it hasn't been a significant enough event. Losing my ability to walk for 2 years (for the most part) also does not make the list of significant events. This shows the importance of the other 3 events. I would (and sometimes do) try a 1,000 mg pill every hour until it causes gas. It took me 6 months to learn the maximum dosage I could take in 4 daily divided doses.

A B-100 complex twice a day will also help. Bu zoloft has the biggest effect.

Re: Discouraged

Laurie R on 9/04/00 at 20:48 (027188)

Hi Dena,
Welcome to the board. I truly do feel for you. Have you read Scott's PF book yet? If not please read it. You came to the right place.This board has helped me so much. You will find some wonderful people here.Hang in there.My very best to you. Laurie R

Re: Vitamin C

Nancy S. on 9/04/00 at 21:39 (027191)

Glad you posted that, Scott. Now who is Rosemary? Out with it.

Re: Rosemary

Scott R on 9/04/00 at 22:06 (027195)

Oh, no, that's too long of a story. Besides, she probably wouldn't like me talking about her (good or bad) in a message board. Mums the word.

Re: Discouraged

Barbara S. on 9/04/00 at 22:31 (027197)

Bless you during your hard day... You have so many things to discourage you right now, but it you handle that depression first, you'll see some light at the end of the tunnel. I hope that you are either maintaining your antidepressant or considering a new one to get you through this especially dark time, to help you to see clearly enough to make good descisions about your life and health. Although my feet are still hurting, kicking the depression first was the single biggest thing I did to start healing. Read all the posts you can about positive stuff and cures, because the SINGLE BIGGEST THING that depression does is convince you, erroneously, that your pain (whether from feet, or life) is forever. It is not. It is not. Hold on to that! B.

P.S. There is lots of stuff you can do at home to heal on the cheap... read Scott's PF book.

Re: To Dena---Discouraged

Dena on 9/04/00 at 22:38 (027198)

First things first is my way of dealing with things. I try to
put things in order of priority. If you had a heart condition that got worse along with the Plantar Fasciitis--- I'd tell you to treat the heart condition first.

Since your depression has kicked up again and this is easily treated
I think you should treat your depression first. Accept the fact
that the PF will be with you for a while longer and by treating
the depression you will become stronger mentally to deal with the
PF.

Sometimes I think we loose sight of the fact that having PF is not life threating. Having it is distressing not dangerous. You have faced a lot od distressing things in your life and you will handle this one too. Is it easy no---but it does take time and work.

Why not begin with Scotts book tonight and tomarrow call the Dr. and make an appointment to have your depression treated. When you begin mentally to feel better you will gain the strength to deal with the plantar fasciitis. Above all never give up. Break major obstacles into smaller parts, put them in order of priority and then begin to deal with them. Believe me it's a lot easier and usually works.
Keep posting---we never walk out on anyone.

Re: To Dena---Discouraged Typo

Pauline on 9/04/00 at 22:39 (027199)

Sorry, Goofed on the posting name.

Re: Discouraged

Nancy S. on 9/05/00 at 05:46 (027206)

Dear Dena,
I'm sorry for your troubles. As you've probably gathered by now, you're not alone here -- this is a place for treatment information AND psychological support for dealing with the limitations PF puts on your life.
I've been trying to think of suggestions for things you might do to try to avoid the extra depression of PF and the isolation it can lead to, as you deal with your long-term depression and work on healing your feet.
(1) Would your choir work with your situation enough to allow you to sit on a tall stool instead of standing?
(2) If you like to read, join a book club that meets regularly.
(3) Consider taking an art or crafts class (ones through adult education are cheap).
(4) Confide in friends to beat back that isolation and get some real-life support. Some may not understand, but some will.
(5) Invite people over, even if one at a time, for companionship so that your house doesn't become full of pain and nothing else.
(6) Listen to uplifting music. When you're depressed, it's hard to think a small thing will make a difference, but it definitely can.
(7) Accept all invitations that don't require you to stand around on your feet.
These are just some thoughts, Dena. Remember you will always find support here, so come back often and don't give up.
Nancy

Re: Discouraged

Dena on 9/05/00 at 06:26 (027208)

Thank you all so much for your encouragement. Lots of good ideas, some of which I can begin to implement today. Unfortunately, I got switched to Kaiser back in January and lost all my docs including my orthos, my therapist and a few other important ones. Sadly, Kaiser limits their treatment area to Atlanta and I had to find a satellite doctor that they would accept out here where I live since I don't drive well enough since my brain injury to make it into Atlanta. I just found out on Monday that they won't let him refer me to another Kaiser doctor outside this regional area and they don't have other doctors. It's a catch 22. My primary is a wonderful doctor and he's trying all he can to help. He's got me back on anti-depressants but depression is hard to beat esp. when it's basis is not chemical primarily so all he can do is try and experiment to find something that brings me up enough to keep me out of my overdose bottle. I'm trying ... have been for the last year. Sometimes the trying just overwhelms me.

I'm taking Wellbutrin for the degenerative arthritis in my neck as well as in my knees and ankles. Doesn't seem to help the feet. I do use the Dogel (ipuprofen gel) when it's really bad .. that helps a bit. I have a little money saved up and am going to order some Azzner orthotics (the cheap model since that's what I can afford right now). Hopefully, that will help. And I'm praying A LOT ... not just for healing but for courage and hope. The brain injury tends to keep me rather isolated and that aggravates things.

Again, thank you all so much for your compassion. While it's a boat riding in a high chop, it's nice to have people sitting next to you willing to hold your hand, pass out life preservers and sea sick pills as well as continually scanning the horizon for landfall. Thank you! :-)

Re: Discouraged

richard graham on 9/05/00 at 07:24 (027212)

Have you had a boold test ?

If not get one from your doctor and I bet your uRIC ACID LEVELS ARE UP.

iF THEY ARE iT IS NOT pf - iT'S GOUT and dead easy to treat

Re: Vitamin C caution

alan k on 9/05/00 at 07:25 (027213)

Note that some messages a while back spoke of esophogus-burning effects from powdered Vitamin C, which sounded very painful (I think it was good old Gordon), so some people should be careful with powder, though apparantly Scott has had no problem.


I read this thread thinking there was some new information on the herb Rosemary but I guess not.


alan k

http://www.acutai.com


.

Re: depression and recovery

alan k on 9/05/00 at 07:52 (027220)

Hi Dena,

I am glad you found the message board.

First I want to reiterate what some others have said: your HMO should be footing the bill for your feet. You may need to call several times, ask to speak to higher ups, ask your employer for assistance in liason with the HMO, but there is definitely a way to get support out of them if you persist. Just the effort and work and eventual success (yes, you will get them to fork up) can lift your spirits.

Please update the board with what steps you take to get treatment in your area. People may be able to suggest the next tactic to try.

As for your spirits, this is the most important thing to attend to, like you said about the heart condition vs. pf. A better mindset leads to faster healing, as many of us can attest. I also went into a depression upon losing so much that was so important to me due to pf, and I got depressed even though I have trained in Buddhist Meditation, have been a Thai Buddhist monk, lived in the forest and other places in isolation, etc. etc. I got down, and that pulled my pf down with it. Only when I my mind picked up did it get better.

Of course, if you are in a feedback loop between not getting your feet better and so not cheering up, and not cheering up and so not getting your feet better, this is hard, we all know.

The first thing is you have to believe in the connection. This is not hard for you since you can plainly see the relation between unfortunate life events and the onset of your pf.

The second thing is to get help or find things that you can help yourself with. Exercise is one of the best things for this particular feedback loop because it helps both pf and your spirits.

I would suggest getting a Pilates floor exercise book, or a video tape if they make them. I am very busy but I am sure people here can search this stuff out for you if you are not that used to the web, plus I know soem people here have these things.

IT is also very helpful if you can get involved in any kind of social group that you can find. This may entail picking up a hobby that previously did not interest you. It depends what there is in the neighborhood, but get involved with other people right away.

There is lots to say but keeping it simple makes things clear. I REALLY URGE YOU:

1) Make your spirits the first priority: the feet will heal aubsequently. Get help if possible.

2) Exercise vigorously (but without jumping around on your feet).

3) Get into a frequently meeting social group, whatever you can find.


let us know how things are going....

best wishes,

alan k

Re: Vitamin C

wendyn on 9/05/00 at 08:21 (027224)

I read recently that high levels of Vitamin C can reduce your absorbtion of B vitamins. Probably not best to combine your C and B?

Re: depression and recovery

AmyM on 9/05/00 at 12:23 (027252)

I've sung in choirs for years, and it is definetly a pf friendly hobby, ok you may have to miss a few concerts but its easy to rehearse sitting down. Of course you have to sit straight and work harder at your breathing but I haven't found that to be a bad thing. I find that the pain caused by getting to choir is more than outweighed by the fun I have once i'm there.

Re: Vitamin C

john a on 9/05/00 at 12:51 (027255)

Wendy, of course that's the reason Scott has to take so much of the B vitamins in the first place! :-) But seriously, I just started taking a B-50 supplement _once_ a day and I was worried about overdoing it! But Scott takes/recommends FOUR TIMES THAT?! (BTW, no supplementation of any kind (Calcium, C, Co Q-10, glucosamin/chondroitin, MSM) has made any noticable difference to my PF or anything else except my wallet. I guess you could argue that I'm just not supplementing enough, but where's the stopping point?)

Re: Vitamin C

Scott R on 9/05/00 at 13:00 (027256)

The myth that vitamin C reduces the absorption of B12 was started back in the early 80's and hasn't died yet eventhough a recent JAMA article repeated the statement that C doesn't prevent B12 absorption. The doses I'm recommending are the amount almost every other animal on the planet get.

Re: depression and recovery

Dena on 9/05/00 at 14:23 (027263)

I talked to my choir director ... he said SIT when you have to. He said he'd rather have me seated than not at all. When I do solos, they'll have someone help me lurch up and down the stairs of the platform (but then I really need that help anyway because of my brain injury and my loss of depth perception).

This morning when I went to the nursing home (not to be admitted but to sing), I just rolled in my stuff and pulled out a chair. Told them I had sore feet and hoped they wouldn't mind. Most of them laughed so .. maybe there's hope after all. :-)

Would people mind sharing some of the things they do by themselves to help their feet .. exercises, etc. Since (I've called the HMO again as has my primary doctor ... I'm out of luck) I'm on my own, I want to try as much as possible to help keep this stuff under control.

Dena

Re: anti-depression excercise

Bob Ray on 9/05/00 at 15:27 (027273)

One of the best ways to deal with depression is excercise. Since you can't stand standing or swimming, try what I do. Lay on your back on a bed with a pillow(s) under your butt. Kick your feet in a pedaling motion. Then try jacknifes (hands touching toes then straightening). Then try a crawing on the ceiling motion. All this should be done gradually at first and only after a stretching warm-up. Get a timer and try to increase the length of each excercise over time.
It works for me. Good luck.

Re: Vitamin C

john a on 9/05/00 at 16:04 (027278)

Scott, I'm curious what specific benefits you see by taking megadoses (>10 grams a day) of vitamin C? You mentioned it helps with stress, but how? What would happen to you if you stopped taking so much?

Re: Vitamin C

Scott R on 9/05/00 at 16:28 (027286)

The side effects I've noticed from taking that much vitamin C are: no longer needing kleenex boxes everywhere because my nose never gets stuffy anymore. During a cold or flu, it stays almost perfectly clear. No longer feeling the negfative effects of stress. I may be under pressure and physically stressed, but I'm never emotionaly stressed out - at all. Nada. Don't know the meaning of emotional stress anymore. No more 'stress pimples' on my back. I get a nice little high after big doses. If I'm physically stressed and it's been a day since a dose, it puts me to sleep like a baby, which I hate because the high I get is even stronger during that time and feels good. I don't take it because it's good for me. Who cares about that? I take it because it makes me feel good. Everyday. 4 times a day. The smaller doses are not the same. The only friend I've been able to get to take the large doses says pretty much the same as I've written above. And anytime I call him these days, he gets real nice, and respectful, and thankful, and attentive to anything I ask.

Re: anti-depression excercise

Dena on 9/05/00 at 16:40 (027289)

Welcome to the board.

I am as concerned about your depression as I am your feet.

With a head injury, you should be entitled to social services.
Most cities have a hotline called 'First Call for Help.' It is a place to find out about various social services. I once dated a social worker who worked with head injured people. My memory is that there were quite a few resources available.

Please do something about your depression. MHMR treats major depression. If you qualify as clincally depressed with major depression, you should be entitled to MHMR's services. That would include both counseling and medication.

I agree with Alan who said to go to a higher up in your HMO. Here is why I say that. My insurance says it does not cover 'routine footcare.' They include 'chronic strains' in this 'routine' catagory.
Yet, I am getting all my medical care for my foot covered. It may be that your HMO is classifying PF as routine when in fact a chronic, debilitating condition and is NOT routine. I think you should check it out.

I'm glad your choir director will let you sit. I have seen plenty of people sitting in regular chairs even during performances... at least in church choirs.

But most of all, please don't ignore your depression. If you feel dangerously depressed to the point you might harm yourself, please call 911, your pastor, or beep your doctor. We want you to take care of yourself.
Beverly

Re: anti-depression excercise

alan k on 9/05/00 at 18:49 (027321)

That is a great exercise for the pf and the feet also, because it promotes blood flow to the feet.

alan k

http://www.acutai.com

.

Re: To Dena---Discouraged

Dr. Zuckerman on 9/05/00 at 20:05 (027334)

Where do you live . I am offering to treat your pf with the orbasone at no charge. I making this offer to you . I have decided to choose one patient each month to try to help change their life. The depression needs to be addressed. There are some great medications that can help you. Everyone is behind you. i will need to know you entire history of pf and where it hurts etc.

Re: vitamin B6 has to be in safe limits

alan k on 9/05/00 at 20:43 (027339)

Please note theat B-6 overdose can lead to peripheral neuropathy. Go to the peripheral neuropathy message board if you want to know how good pf is.

I am going to try huge doses of Vitamin C, based on Scott's recommendation, which was wonderful. Can't pass up that oppurtunity.

But please people be careful with B-6. It is very good for nerve pain problems like carpal tunnel syndrome and may be helpful for pf and tts too, but don't overdo it. 100-150 mg a day for a few weeks is said to be safe. I would go higher than that nly with medical supervision.


alan k

http://www.acutai.com


.

Re: more vitamin C

Scott R on 9/05/00 at 22:04 (027349)

But be careful starting out too quickly on large doses of vit C. It can and will cause diarrhea (it's used as a safe laxative sometimes - guys at work played a joke on each other playing around with my vit C stores). But it's not pleasant and can mess up an entire day! Some people 'lose their load' on as little as a few 1,000 mg pills. Try 1,000 mg every 2 hours to start, and if you don't get gas that whole day, then try 1,000 mg every waking hour for 2 days. Then if you still don't get gas go on to 4,000 mg every 4 hours, or maybe even every 2 hours if you stilll do not notice any ill effects. I took 10,000 mg 4 times a day for a long time, but that was close to my borderline. Gas will come before diarrhea, but the amount to 'put you over the edge' after noticing gas is not much, so take it as a real warning sign and cut back when you notice it. Usually, and this is no theory, people are already in a mild state of scurvy when they start these large doses. For this reason, you can take 2 or 3 times more at the beginning than you can 3 months later: your body requires 3 months to repair itself from the damage done from lack of vitamin C and it 'gobbles the stuff up' for 3 months before it no longer needs the lartger doses. It takes that long to build up enough collagen to be comparable to other Earth animals.

If you have to be careful about spinach and other foods that cause oxalic acid kidney stones, then don't do these large doses. There hasn't been a study, but a theory says it could cause kidney stones, and these are something you do not want. One study said >1,500 mg reduced the chances of kidney stones (but I'm sure they did not go as high as I'm suggesting).

Re: anti-depression excercise

PaulS on 9/06/00 at 03:42 (027354)

I too have a problem getting a good workout due to PF and shoulder problems. I like the sound of your exercise but want to make sure I do it right. Should the legs be pointing at the ceiling while kicking or parallel to the ground? And what do you mean by the crawling on the ceiling motion?
Thanks for your ideas on this. You're certainly right that exercise can help beat depression, but conversely, not being able to exercise (for me at least as a keen sports person) is a prime cause of depression.

Re: Vitamin C

john a on 9/06/00 at 10:59 (027381)

I can't tell if you are kidding or not about not taking C because it's good for you, but if it does nothing but make you 'feel' better, than I can say I can do without it - I feel fine as is. Except for PF, AT, CTS, a bad back, a bad knee, and IBD :-) But I rarely get colds and don't 'feel' stressed. Now if any of those are caused by hidden stress, and mega C doses can fix any of those things, then I would consider it, but to treat it like a Drug, on a perhaps fascetious par with, say Heroin, does not seem good to me. I do fine without nicotine, caffein and alcohol already.

Re: Discouraged

JudyS on 9/04/00 at 18:52 (027178)

Dena, there's no way anyone here would 'mind' you posting! We like you already! Could I just mention quickly that 'Mr. Charming' wasn't really? Easy for an outsider to say, I know, but at a certain level it's easy for an outsider to see.
It hurts so much when someone here has to deal with depression - it's so very difficult to have to allow one's feet (or one's Ex) to have that much power. I sincerely hope that you're being treated properly for your suicidal issues because that part of you is working in 'catch-22' mode with your feet.
Believe me, absolutely everything you're experiencing with your feet is the same thing everyone else here is experiencing! From so-so doctors to expensive orthotics to eliminating/modifying favorite activities. The bottom line lies in the chronic nature of Plantar Fasciitis. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't heal. most times it does. It's a matter of treating yourself sensibly (read Scott's PF Book on this site) and continuing to take charge of your treatment options. I'm very surprised that your Kaiser HMO doesn't provide you with orthopedic or podiatric treatment. Is yours a limited coverage? Otherwise, you shouldn't have any trouble at all with Kaiser - in fact, you should at least be able to see your Primary Care physician with your PF symptoms. Also, if they're treating you for depression, you should be able to talk with that treating physician about your feet.
You will find MANY supportive and empathetic friends on this website so I hope you'll use it regularly to learn more about PF and to begin to get a sense that YOU can be in charge of IT instead of the other way around. That's about half the battle.
I look forward to hearing more from you.

Re: Discouraged

Steve P on 9/04/00 at 20:12 (027181)

Dena -- I suggest you go to your GP & get a diagnosis. See if the GP agrees that it is PF. If so, he may prescibe medication himself (e.g., anti-inflammatory) or may refer you to a specialist, depending on the severity of the condition, etc.
I've never heard of an HMO that won't allow the GP to refer a foot problem to an Orthopedist or Podiatrist. Are you sure of this?
In any case, please at least see your GP. Self-diagnosis is not the way to go.
Good luck & keep us informed!

Re: Vitamin C

Scott R on 9/04/00 at 20:45 (027187)

I have what may seem like a strange suggestion. Vitamin C. As much as you can take as long as it doesn't cause gas and diarrhea. It can relieve a great deal of stress. I mix 1 teaspoon of the the powder with orange juice 3 or 4 times a day. It relieved a great deal of strss in my life. So far my life can be marked by 3 turning events. College, Rosemary, and vitamin C. heelspurs.com does not yet make the list because it hasn't been a significant enough event. Losing my ability to walk for 2 years (for the most part) also does not make the list of significant events. This shows the importance of the other 3 events. I would (and sometimes do) try a 1,000 mg pill every hour until it causes gas. It took me 6 months to learn the maximum dosage I could take in 4 daily divided doses.

A B-100 complex twice a day will also help. Bu zoloft has the biggest effect.

Re: Discouraged

Laurie R on 9/04/00 at 20:48 (027188)

Hi Dena,
Welcome to the board. I truly do feel for you. Have you read Scott's PF book yet? If not please read it. You came to the right place.This board has helped me so much. You will find some wonderful people here.Hang in there.My very best to you. Laurie R

Re: Vitamin C

Nancy S. on 9/04/00 at 21:39 (027191)

Glad you posted that, Scott. Now who is Rosemary? Out with it.

Re: Rosemary

Scott R on 9/04/00 at 22:06 (027195)

Oh, no, that's too long of a story. Besides, she probably wouldn't like me talking about her (good or bad) in a message board. Mums the word.

Re: Discouraged

Barbara S. on 9/04/00 at 22:31 (027197)

Bless you during your hard day... You have so many things to discourage you right now, but it you handle that depression first, you'll see some light at the end of the tunnel. I hope that you are either maintaining your antidepressant or considering a new one to get you through this especially dark time, to help you to see clearly enough to make good descisions about your life and health. Although my feet are still hurting, kicking the depression first was the single biggest thing I did to start healing. Read all the posts you can about positive stuff and cures, because the SINGLE BIGGEST THING that depression does is convince you, erroneously, that your pain (whether from feet, or life) is forever. It is not. It is not. Hold on to that! B.

P.S. There is lots of stuff you can do at home to heal on the cheap... read Scott's PF book.

Re: To Dena---Discouraged

Dena on 9/04/00 at 22:38 (027198)

First things first is my way of dealing with things. I try to
put things in order of priority. If you had a heart condition that got worse along with the Plantar Fasciitis--- I'd tell you to treat the heart condition first.

Since your depression has kicked up again and this is easily treated
I think you should treat your depression first. Accept the fact
that the PF will be with you for a while longer and by treating
the depression you will become stronger mentally to deal with the
PF.

Sometimes I think we loose sight of the fact that having PF is not life threating. Having it is distressing not dangerous. You have faced a lot od distressing things in your life and you will handle this one too. Is it easy no---but it does take time and work.

Why not begin with Scotts book tonight and tomarrow call the Dr. and make an appointment to have your depression treated. When you begin mentally to feel better you will gain the strength to deal with the plantar fasciitis. Above all never give up. Break major obstacles into smaller parts, put them in order of priority and then begin to deal with them. Believe me it's a lot easier and usually works.
Keep posting---we never walk out on anyone.

Re: To Dena---Discouraged Typo

Pauline on 9/04/00 at 22:39 (027199)

Sorry, Goofed on the posting name.

Re: Discouraged

Nancy S. on 9/05/00 at 05:46 (027206)

Dear Dena,
I'm sorry for your troubles. As you've probably gathered by now, you're not alone here -- this is a place for treatment information AND psychological support for dealing with the limitations PF puts on your life.
I've been trying to think of suggestions for things you might do to try to avoid the extra depression of PF and the isolation it can lead to, as you deal with your long-term depression and work on healing your feet.
(1) Would your choir work with your situation enough to allow you to sit on a tall stool instead of standing?
(2) If you like to read, join a book club that meets regularly.
(3) Consider taking an art or crafts class (ones through adult education are cheap).
(4) Confide in friends to beat back that isolation and get some real-life support. Some may not understand, but some will.
(5) Invite people over, even if one at a time, for companionship so that your house doesn't become full of pain and nothing else.
(6) Listen to uplifting music. When you're depressed, it's hard to think a small thing will make a difference, but it definitely can.
(7) Accept all invitations that don't require you to stand around on your feet.
These are just some thoughts, Dena. Remember you will always find support here, so come back often and don't give up.
Nancy

Re: Discouraged

Dena on 9/05/00 at 06:26 (027208)

Thank you all so much for your encouragement. Lots of good ideas, some of which I can begin to implement today. Unfortunately, I got switched to Kaiser back in January and lost all my docs including my orthos, my therapist and a few other important ones. Sadly, Kaiser limits their treatment area to Atlanta and I had to find a satellite doctor that they would accept out here where I live since I don't drive well enough since my brain injury to make it into Atlanta. I just found out on Monday that they won't let him refer me to another Kaiser doctor outside this regional area and they don't have other doctors. It's a catch 22. My primary is a wonderful doctor and he's trying all he can to help. He's got me back on anti-depressants but depression is hard to beat esp. when it's basis is not chemical primarily so all he can do is try and experiment to find something that brings me up enough to keep me out of my overdose bottle. I'm trying ... have been for the last year. Sometimes the trying just overwhelms me.

I'm taking Wellbutrin for the degenerative arthritis in my neck as well as in my knees and ankles. Doesn't seem to help the feet. I do use the Dogel (ipuprofen gel) when it's really bad .. that helps a bit. I have a little money saved up and am going to order some Azzner orthotics (the cheap model since that's what I can afford right now). Hopefully, that will help. And I'm praying A LOT ... not just for healing but for courage and hope. The brain injury tends to keep me rather isolated and that aggravates things.

Again, thank you all so much for your compassion. While it's a boat riding in a high chop, it's nice to have people sitting next to you willing to hold your hand, pass out life preservers and sea sick pills as well as continually scanning the horizon for landfall. Thank you! :-)

Re: Discouraged

richard graham on 9/05/00 at 07:24 (027212)

Have you had a boold test ?

If not get one from your doctor and I bet your uRIC ACID LEVELS ARE UP.

iF THEY ARE iT IS NOT pf - iT'S GOUT and dead easy to treat

Re: Vitamin C caution

alan k on 9/05/00 at 07:25 (027213)

Note that some messages a while back spoke of esophogus-burning effects from powdered Vitamin C, which sounded very painful (I think it was good old Gordon), so some people should be careful with powder, though apparantly Scott has had no problem.


I read this thread thinking there was some new information on the herb Rosemary but I guess not.


alan k

http://www.acutai.com


.

Re: depression and recovery

alan k on 9/05/00 at 07:52 (027220)

Hi Dena,

I am glad you found the message board.

First I want to reiterate what some others have said: your HMO should be footing the bill for your feet. You may need to call several times, ask to speak to higher ups, ask your employer for assistance in liason with the HMO, but there is definitely a way to get support out of them if you persist. Just the effort and work and eventual success (yes, you will get them to fork up) can lift your spirits.

Please update the board with what steps you take to get treatment in your area. People may be able to suggest the next tactic to try.

As for your spirits, this is the most important thing to attend to, like you said about the heart condition vs. pf. A better mindset leads to faster healing, as many of us can attest. I also went into a depression upon losing so much that was so important to me due to pf, and I got depressed even though I have trained in Buddhist Meditation, have been a Thai Buddhist monk, lived in the forest and other places in isolation, etc. etc. I got down, and that pulled my pf down with it. Only when I my mind picked up did it get better.

Of course, if you are in a feedback loop between not getting your feet better and so not cheering up, and not cheering up and so not getting your feet better, this is hard, we all know.

The first thing is you have to believe in the connection. This is not hard for you since you can plainly see the relation between unfortunate life events and the onset of your pf.

The second thing is to get help or find things that you can help yourself with. Exercise is one of the best things for this particular feedback loop because it helps both pf and your spirits.

I would suggest getting a Pilates floor exercise book, or a video tape if they make them. I am very busy but I am sure people here can search this stuff out for you if you are not that used to the web, plus I know soem people here have these things.

IT is also very helpful if you can get involved in any kind of social group that you can find. This may entail picking up a hobby that previously did not interest you. It depends what there is in the neighborhood, but get involved with other people right away.

There is lots to say but keeping it simple makes things clear. I REALLY URGE YOU:

1) Make your spirits the first priority: the feet will heal aubsequently. Get help if possible.

2) Exercise vigorously (but without jumping around on your feet).

3) Get into a frequently meeting social group, whatever you can find.


let us know how things are going....

best wishes,

alan k

Re: Vitamin C

wendyn on 9/05/00 at 08:21 (027224)

I read recently that high levels of Vitamin C can reduce your absorbtion of B vitamins. Probably not best to combine your C and B?

Re: depression and recovery

AmyM on 9/05/00 at 12:23 (027252)

I've sung in choirs for years, and it is definetly a pf friendly hobby, ok you may have to miss a few concerts but its easy to rehearse sitting down. Of course you have to sit straight and work harder at your breathing but I haven't found that to be a bad thing. I find that the pain caused by getting to choir is more than outweighed by the fun I have once i'm there.

Re: Vitamin C

john a on 9/05/00 at 12:51 (027255)

Wendy, of course that's the reason Scott has to take so much of the B vitamins in the first place! :-) But seriously, I just started taking a B-50 supplement _once_ a day and I was worried about overdoing it! But Scott takes/recommends FOUR TIMES THAT?! (BTW, no supplementation of any kind (Calcium, C, Co Q-10, glucosamin/chondroitin, MSM) has made any noticable difference to my PF or anything else except my wallet. I guess you could argue that I'm just not supplementing enough, but where's the stopping point?)

Re: Vitamin C

Scott R on 9/05/00 at 13:00 (027256)

The myth that vitamin C reduces the absorption of B12 was started back in the early 80's and hasn't died yet eventhough a recent JAMA article repeated the statement that C doesn't prevent B12 absorption. The doses I'm recommending are the amount almost every other animal on the planet get.

Re: depression and recovery

Dena on 9/05/00 at 14:23 (027263)

I talked to my choir director ... he said SIT when you have to. He said he'd rather have me seated than not at all. When I do solos, they'll have someone help me lurch up and down the stairs of the platform (but then I really need that help anyway because of my brain injury and my loss of depth perception).

This morning when I went to the nursing home (not to be admitted but to sing), I just rolled in my stuff and pulled out a chair. Told them I had sore feet and hoped they wouldn't mind. Most of them laughed so .. maybe there's hope after all. :-)

Would people mind sharing some of the things they do by themselves to help their feet .. exercises, etc. Since (I've called the HMO again as has my primary doctor ... I'm out of luck) I'm on my own, I want to try as much as possible to help keep this stuff under control.

Dena

Re: anti-depression excercise

Bob Ray on 9/05/00 at 15:27 (027273)

One of the best ways to deal with depression is excercise. Since you can't stand standing or swimming, try what I do. Lay on your back on a bed with a pillow(s) under your butt. Kick your feet in a pedaling motion. Then try jacknifes (hands touching toes then straightening). Then try a crawing on the ceiling motion. All this should be done gradually at first and only after a stretching warm-up. Get a timer and try to increase the length of each excercise over time.
It works for me. Good luck.

Re: Vitamin C

john a on 9/05/00 at 16:04 (027278)

Scott, I'm curious what specific benefits you see by taking megadoses (>10 grams a day) of vitamin C? You mentioned it helps with stress, but how? What would happen to you if you stopped taking so much?

Re: Vitamin C

Scott R on 9/05/00 at 16:28 (027286)

The side effects I've noticed from taking that much vitamin C are: no longer needing kleenex boxes everywhere because my nose never gets stuffy anymore. During a cold or flu, it stays almost perfectly clear. No longer feeling the negfative effects of stress. I may be under pressure and physically stressed, but I'm never emotionaly stressed out - at all. Nada. Don't know the meaning of emotional stress anymore. No more 'stress pimples' on my back. I get a nice little high after big doses. If I'm physically stressed and it's been a day since a dose, it puts me to sleep like a baby, which I hate because the high I get is even stronger during that time and feels good. I don't take it because it's good for me. Who cares about that? I take it because it makes me feel good. Everyday. 4 times a day. The smaller doses are not the same. The only friend I've been able to get to take the large doses says pretty much the same as I've written above. And anytime I call him these days, he gets real nice, and respectful, and thankful, and attentive to anything I ask.

Re: anti-depression excercise

Dena on 9/05/00 at 16:40 (027289)

Welcome to the board.

I am as concerned about your depression as I am your feet.

With a head injury, you should be entitled to social services.
Most cities have a hotline called 'First Call for Help.' It is a place to find out about various social services. I once dated a social worker who worked with head injured people. My memory is that there were quite a few resources available.

Please do something about your depression. MHMR treats major depression. If you qualify as clincally depressed with major depression, you should be entitled to MHMR's services. That would include both counseling and medication.

I agree with Alan who said to go to a higher up in your HMO. Here is why I say that. My insurance says it does not cover 'routine footcare.' They include 'chronic strains' in this 'routine' catagory.
Yet, I am getting all my medical care for my foot covered. It may be that your HMO is classifying PF as routine when in fact a chronic, debilitating condition and is NOT routine. I think you should check it out.

I'm glad your choir director will let you sit. I have seen plenty of people sitting in regular chairs even during performances... at least in church choirs.

But most of all, please don't ignore your depression. If you feel dangerously depressed to the point you might harm yourself, please call 911, your pastor, or beep your doctor. We want you to take care of yourself.
Beverly

Re: anti-depression excercise

alan k on 9/05/00 at 18:49 (027321)

That is a great exercise for the pf and the feet also, because it promotes blood flow to the feet.

alan k

http://www.acutai.com

.

Re: To Dena---Discouraged

Dr. Zuckerman on 9/05/00 at 20:05 (027334)

Where do you live . I am offering to treat your pf with the orbasone at no charge. I making this offer to you . I have decided to choose one patient each month to try to help change their life. The depression needs to be addressed. There are some great medications that can help you. Everyone is behind you. i will need to know you entire history of pf and where it hurts etc.

Re: vitamin B6 has to be in safe limits

alan k on 9/05/00 at 20:43 (027339)

Please note theat B-6 overdose can lead to peripheral neuropathy. Go to the peripheral neuropathy message board if you want to know how good pf is.

I am going to try huge doses of Vitamin C, based on Scott's recommendation, which was wonderful. Can't pass up that oppurtunity.

But please people be careful with B-6. It is very good for nerve pain problems like carpal tunnel syndrome and may be helpful for pf and tts too, but don't overdo it. 100-150 mg a day for a few weeks is said to be safe. I would go higher than that nly with medical supervision.


alan k

http://www.acutai.com


.

Re: more vitamin C

Scott R on 9/05/00 at 22:04 (027349)

But be careful starting out too quickly on large doses of vit C. It can and will cause diarrhea (it's used as a safe laxative sometimes - guys at work played a joke on each other playing around with my vit C stores). But it's not pleasant and can mess up an entire day! Some people 'lose their load' on as little as a few 1,000 mg pills. Try 1,000 mg every 2 hours to start, and if you don't get gas that whole day, then try 1,000 mg every waking hour for 2 days. Then if you still don't get gas go on to 4,000 mg every 4 hours, or maybe even every 2 hours if you stilll do not notice any ill effects. I took 10,000 mg 4 times a day for a long time, but that was close to my borderline. Gas will come before diarrhea, but the amount to 'put you over the edge' after noticing gas is not much, so take it as a real warning sign and cut back when you notice it. Usually, and this is no theory, people are already in a mild state of scurvy when they start these large doses. For this reason, you can take 2 or 3 times more at the beginning than you can 3 months later: your body requires 3 months to repair itself from the damage done from lack of vitamin C and it 'gobbles the stuff up' for 3 months before it no longer needs the lartger doses. It takes that long to build up enough collagen to be comparable to other Earth animals.

If you have to be careful about spinach and other foods that cause oxalic acid kidney stones, then don't do these large doses. There hasn't been a study, but a theory says it could cause kidney stones, and these are something you do not want. One study said >1,500 mg reduced the chances of kidney stones (but I'm sure they did not go as high as I'm suggesting).

Re: anti-depression excercise

PaulS on 9/06/00 at 03:42 (027354)

I too have a problem getting a good workout due to PF and shoulder problems. I like the sound of your exercise but want to make sure I do it right. Should the legs be pointing at the ceiling while kicking or parallel to the ground? And what do you mean by the crawling on the ceiling motion?
Thanks for your ideas on this. You're certainly right that exercise can help beat depression, but conversely, not being able to exercise (for me at least as a keen sports person) is a prime cause of depression.

Re: Vitamin C

john a on 9/06/00 at 10:59 (027381)

I can't tell if you are kidding or not about not taking C because it's good for you, but if it does nothing but make you 'feel' better, than I can say I can do without it - I feel fine as is. Except for PF, AT, CTS, a bad back, a bad knee, and IBD :-) But I rarely get colds and don't 'feel' stressed. Now if any of those are caused by hidden stress, and mega C doses can fix any of those things, then I would consider it, but to treat it like a Drug, on a perhaps fascetious par with, say Heroin, does not seem good to me. I do fine without nicotine, caffein and alcohol already.