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PF

Posted by Mohez on 9/14/00 at 20:58 (028244)

Hi all, remember - I was John Warlick's plant, Ha Ha- anyways it has been about 4 months since my second treatment and I have improved to about 65% of pre PF pain/threshold. Not where i want to be but hey, its not bad. I did not have to pay for my Ossatrons - but if I was told that i would be to 65% I would have. Don't know where to go from here, I am trying the Personal Foot Trainers and may try barefoot science inserts ( http://www.barefoot-science.com ), these are supposed to increase strengh in your foot muscles.

Dr. Z, I have followed your posts since you first came on the site, even though there was initially great opposition to you and your methods ( especially with John Warlick ), I think you are doing a DAMN fine job/service to the board, WAY TO GO.

Martha and JennH - have not forgotten about you guys - hope you are doing well.

Mohez

Re: PF

Dr. Zuckerman on 9/14/00 at 21:54 (028249)

why not a third. If you are improving and it has stopped then a third may do the trick. The key is to keep doing the ossatron or orbasone unitl that is it . I may go to a fourth on one patient. If you did let say two more and there wasn't any significant improvement then that may be it. i am trying to find out if there is a max. I have read a report where a patient had five orbasone treatments. I really can't remember 100% don't have the report in front of me. I do know the treatment was on his shoulder and not his foot. I don't think the five treatment did any thing, but I will check. I do have a few orbasone patients that have had two treatment and were about 65-70 better after the first and then went to a second and are pain free.


I will report on patients that get third and maybe a fourth if this situatuion happens.

Re: PF

Martha B. on 9/15/00 at 07:54 (028272)

I was NOT one of the 8 freebies for the ossatron but am happy to report that I had treatment Sept 17,1999 and that was a new beginning for me and my feet. I am 95% improved so dont know how I could ask for anything more. I still baby my feet,stretch some,and wear orthotics but am now able to do pretty much anything I want to. Remember, now I am a 52 year old non athletic grandmother,nonthe less active grandma! I have continued to follow the board but try not to post too much for fear of gloating or boring you guys. I do care about all of you though.
I want to remind you about Mohez in case you have forgotten how bad he was and how many things he had tried before ossatron. Do a search on his name. Jennh,he and I were the 3 musketeers who were going thru this about the same time and I might add 3 total opposites in all areas but dear PF friends.

Re: PF-thank you martha

iris on 9/16/00 at 17:41 (028401)

dear martha,
thank you for reminding us that there are great success stories out there. i have been treated by dr. zuckerman and am waiting for improvement to be very noticeable. how long did it take for you to make the statement, 'i feel better and can return to normal activities'?
i am so very glad for you.
sincerely,
iris

Re: PF-thank you martha

Martha B. on 9/16/00 at 20:08 (028420)

I had gradual improvement with about 2 weeks of plateaus but I returned to 'normal', which was a heck of alot more activity than prior to ossatron,at about 8 weeks. Keep in mind that I quit icing and taking anti inflams immediately after treatment. I took a few tylenol along the way but that was all.Please be patient because everyone reacts a little different to these treatments.Feel
free to ask me anything re this and best of luck to you!!

Re: for Dr. Z

Mohez on 9/16/00 at 21:02 (028426)

Doc

I want to go for a third treatment, but that is Dr. Galea's call. The problem is sometimes I feel that I don't really get all the attention i need. He treats many many Canadian athletes - as a matter of fact he is in Sydney as we speak. He had me do some cybex tests and I have yet to hear from his office even though three messages have been left. I am to see him in three weeks - lets see what he has to say. Correct me if I am wrong but does'nt the Ossatron send more 'powerful' shockwaves than the Orbasone? and therefore 'better' ? I do not mean to be condescending. Anyways, I am also trying the Personal foot trainors and what do you think of barefoot science ( check out http://www.barefoot-science.com ). The concept sounds pretty good to me.

Mohez

Re: for Dr. Z

Dr. Zuckerman on 9/17/00 at 06:34 (028446)

here is the deal with the ossatron vs Orbasone. Which sends more powerful shocks. I dont know at this point and time. I can't get the necessary information to answer this. My guess is they are the same and here is why. This is only for plantar fasciitis that I am talking about. The ossatron has a generator that can go to 28kv. Orbaone 22kv
The ossatron treatment that you had was 1500 shocks at 18 kv
The orbasone treatmetn thati use is 3000 at 16-18 kv
The ossaton has a depth of treatment of 70mm the orbaone is about 50mm
Th key for comparison is in the joules/mm2 at the focal point of treatment . If I was a betting man My educated guess would be they are the same. Either you are using high energy or you ar using low energy. It is the energy delivered at the treatment site. i don't believe that anyone is using 28kv with the ossatron for pf . They are using it in the treatment of non-healing fracture. Now if 28 kv is being used at all and the results are better then the ossatron is a better machine. If there ossatron deliveres more shocks in focus then the orbaonse then the ossatron is better. Its the focused shocks we need. I am not a representative for the orbasone just a doctor who wants to be the best at ESWT. So as the machines get better i will get the best machine. I don't know which is better at this time.

Re: for Dr. Z

Dr. Zuckerman on 9/17/00 at 06:40 (028447)

The cybex testing is really good. This is going to help you focus on the areas that need strengthing and stretching. There has to be someone in his office that can help you at least get some results.
The Personal Foot Trainers is going to help you.

Re: PF

Dr. Zuckerman on 9/14/00 at 21:54 (028249)

why not a third. If you are improving and it has stopped then a third may do the trick. The key is to keep doing the ossatron or orbasone unitl that is it . I may go to a fourth on one patient. If you did let say two more and there wasn't any significant improvement then that may be it. i am trying to find out if there is a max. I have read a report where a patient had five orbasone treatments. I really can't remember 100% don't have the report in front of me. I do know the treatment was on his shoulder and not his foot. I don't think the five treatment did any thing, but I will check. I do have a few orbasone patients that have had two treatment and were about 65-70 better after the first and then went to a second and are pain free.


I will report on patients that get third and maybe a fourth if this situatuion happens.

Re: PF

Martha B. on 9/15/00 at 07:54 (028272)

I was NOT one of the 8 freebies for the ossatron but am happy to report that I had treatment Sept 17,1999 and that was a new beginning for me and my feet. I am 95% improved so dont know how I could ask for anything more. I still baby my feet,stretch some,and wear orthotics but am now able to do pretty much anything I want to. Remember, now I am a 52 year old non athletic grandmother,nonthe less active grandma! I have continued to follow the board but try not to post too much for fear of gloating or boring you guys. I do care about all of you though.
I want to remind you about Mohez in case you have forgotten how bad he was and how many things he had tried before ossatron. Do a search on his name. Jennh,he and I were the 3 musketeers who were going thru this about the same time and I might add 3 total opposites in all areas but dear PF friends.

Re: PF-thank you martha

iris on 9/16/00 at 17:41 (028401)

dear martha,
thank you for reminding us that there are great success stories out there. i have been treated by dr. zuckerman and am waiting for improvement to be very noticeable. how long did it take for you to make the statement, 'i feel better and can return to normal activities'?
i am so very glad for you.
sincerely,
iris

Re: PF-thank you martha

Martha B. on 9/16/00 at 20:08 (028420)

I had gradual improvement with about 2 weeks of plateaus but I returned to 'normal', which was a heck of alot more activity than prior to ossatron,at about 8 weeks. Keep in mind that I quit icing and taking anti inflams immediately after treatment. I took a few tylenol along the way but that was all.Please be patient because everyone reacts a little different to these treatments.Feel
free to ask me anything re this and best of luck to you!!

Re: for Dr. Z

Mohez on 9/16/00 at 21:02 (028426)

Doc

I want to go for a third treatment, but that is Dr. Galea's call. The problem is sometimes I feel that I don't really get all the attention i need. He treats many many Canadian athletes - as a matter of fact he is in Sydney as we speak. He had me do some cybex tests and I have yet to hear from his office even though three messages have been left. I am to see him in three weeks - lets see what he has to say. Correct me if I am wrong but does'nt the Ossatron send more 'powerful' shockwaves than the Orbasone? and therefore 'better' ? I do not mean to be condescending. Anyways, I am also trying the Personal foot trainors and what do you think of barefoot science ( check out http://www.barefoot-science.com ). The concept sounds pretty good to me.

Mohez

Re: for Dr. Z

Dr. Zuckerman on 9/17/00 at 06:34 (028446)

here is the deal with the ossatron vs Orbasone. Which sends more powerful shocks. I dont know at this point and time. I can't get the necessary information to answer this. My guess is they are the same and here is why. This is only for plantar fasciitis that I am talking about. The ossatron has a generator that can go to 28kv. Orbaone 22kv
The ossatron treatment that you had was 1500 shocks at 18 kv
The orbasone treatmetn thati use is 3000 at 16-18 kv
The ossaton has a depth of treatment of 70mm the orbaone is about 50mm
Th key for comparison is in the joules/mm2 at the focal point of treatment . If I was a betting man My educated guess would be they are the same. Either you are using high energy or you ar using low energy. It is the energy delivered at the treatment site. i don't believe that anyone is using 28kv with the ossatron for pf . They are using it in the treatment of non-healing fracture. Now if 28 kv is being used at all and the results are better then the ossatron is a better machine. If there ossatron deliveres more shocks in focus then the orbaonse then the ossatron is better. Its the focused shocks we need. I am not a representative for the orbasone just a doctor who wants to be the best at ESWT. So as the machines get better i will get the best machine. I don't know which is better at this time.

Re: for Dr. Z

Dr. Zuckerman on 9/17/00 at 06:40 (028447)

The cybex testing is really good. This is going to help you focus on the areas that need strengthing and stretching. There has to be someone in his office that can help you at least get some results.
The Personal Foot Trainers is going to help you.