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Michael Young appt. Muscle Release Therapy

Posted by Pauline on 9/17/00 at 12:50 (028464)

As shown on the web site Salina found I received the exact treatment.
I was kind of a show and tell project for therapist learning the technique that evening.

His idea makes a lot of sense and is basicly another form of stretching. It works best with 2 people doing it so now my husband
is on call every other day to do these stretching exercises with me.

I think the procedure is similar to ART. Slight pressure is put on various parts of muscle attactments points then the other hand massages the muscle elongating it in a smooth easy stretch. He suggested my main tight spots were in my legs and he proved that to me as he massaged them. He worked only to my pain level, very slow
moderate pressure and mostly only mild discomfort to a few big ones.

The important thing is to do them every other day along with my regular stretches to break up scar tissue and realign the muscle fibers elongating them as you slowly stretch them. He said if more
people kept limber and stretched fully everyday chance of getting PF is slim. He claims it is wrong to try to stretch a muscle that is tight enough to cause PF and try to strengthen it at the same time. First you must elongate it then after symptoms go away begin to strengthen them slowly. He does not know how long it
will take to get back to normal but slowly working the muscles they
will eventually return to normal. He has been published in a national book, however this is not a medical journal.

To tell you the truth I felt good when he was finished and my feet and legs seemed to feel more loose. At times I thought I was going to fall off his table, but never did. I took the names of some
of the students there who were close to my home for future visits and purchased the book they were using for this course. He said I was not as tight as many PF clients he sees so I must have been stretching along the way. The most difficult part is getting the inflammation down so stretching can begin. Go slow and with little pain until you can go farther. Each day bring a small gain.


That's all folks ---

Re: Forgot to Mention Michael Young appt. Muscle Release Therapy

Pauline on 9/17/00 at 15:21 (028472)

I forgot to mention something that has been posted before and that is
when sitting make sure feet are flat on the floor. Never rest
up on the toes.

Re: Michael Young appt. Muscle Release Therapy

Kathy on 9/17/00 at 19:23 (028486)

Hi Pauline, My name is Kathy and I am one of the therapists who was attending the Muscle Release Technique workshop. I thank you for allowing us to watch your treatment..it was a wonderful learning experience for us. I hope that this treatment gives you the relief from pain that you so deserve. I saw many wonderful experiences with other therapists in the group this weekend both in giving and receiving the work. It truly does seem to be an answers for those living in pain. It makes SO MUCH SENCE. I wish you and your husband much success with your streching and may you be PAIN FREE!
Blessings, Kathy

Re: Michael Young appt. Muscle Release Therapy

salina on 9/17/00 at 21:46 (028499)

Sounds like it was a very positive experience for you, Pauline.
Thanks for posting about it. It might encourage others.
Does his book explain in detail how to do this?

Re: Forgot to Mention Michael Young appt. Muscle Release Therapy

salina on 9/17/00 at 21:50 (028500)

Oh my goodness. Now that you said that, I realized that I am constantly sitting with my toes resting on the floor. I think I do it without thinking about it.
Every single time I sit at the computer, I either put my feet under the chair resting on my toes, or i stretch my feet out in front of me and am then resting on my heels. Either way, my feet are almost never flat on the floor.
I am going to start paying attention to this.

Re: Michael Young appt. Muscle Release Therapy

Denise E on 9/18/00 at 06:01 (028505)

Pauline, How did you get to be the show and tell subject in that workshop? Can you provide some details?

How do we find therapists in our area who are trained to do this?

Thanks.

Re: sounds great, and THE WILD WEST (not a post for everyone)

alan k on 9/18/00 at 08:52 (028509)

That really sounds great Pauline, and from my point of view I think you are definitely going to see results. Of course, I am biased in favor of MRT because it is similar to Thai massage. I think Mr. Young must have worked out his system in the best way for it, with all the pieces in place. You should probably get some results immediately, which is nice, but some may be more subtle and take longer to notice.

I just want to say two things, hopefully I won't disturb anyone. Now I am afraid to have discussions on the message board. This board used to be like a Wild West frontier, with people sharing all kinds of things and trying all kinds of stuff-- the image of Gordon's long list of supplements and hair folicle analysis, and someone else hitting themself with a hammer to simulate ESWT, stand out in my mind. Sometimes people got in huge arguments over whether to eat dairy or not that would take up the whole screen. I thought that was a bit too much, but now it seems like discussion has to be so constrained.

So my two things for those who like to discuss or hear about different points of view about muscle therapy:

1. Toning muslces is very important for their function. Elasticity, which is what we all want from our muscles, is not promoted through stretching alone but must involve toning as well. This is backed up by both Western and Eastern medicine.

2. The reason Mr. Young does not encourage exercise may be that for his specific techniques and system that he developed, it works better that way. Probably, experience has proven it so, when applying his specific techniques and system. Hopefully, it is not just based on a theory: that is, taking the abstract knowledge as more important than what actually works. I bet Mr. Young's reasons are based in experience not theory, but then after the experience he states it as a theory, applying to everyone. My opinion is that it applies only to his system.

It is important sometimes to stick to the rules of the system that your therapy is involved in, because if it is a good therapy it is a whole system, not a narrow approach. People doing Mr. Young's therapy should abide by what he says, at least for a couple months.

Sometimes people with one system extend their rules to all other systems, and perhaps that is good in encouraging faith in the practitioners so that they stick with the system. Mr. Young's ideas against toning are probably right for his system but maybe not for others, and the study of muscle function would indicate that. Or, maybe he is right and everyone else is wrong. You have to keep open to that possibility. I like what Dr. Z said about that in the things he has learned.

There is one sense in which Mr. Young is right, which may be a basis for being completely right, and that is with nerve impingement problems you sometimes don't want to build up muscles in the region: for instance you might want to hold off on inversion exercises if you have tts. Also, with drastic muscle imbalances you might not want to exercise the stronger muscle, perhaps. And with atrophy you have to be careful not to get too excited about exercising a muscle because it may not be up to it yet, but you do need to exercise it slowly if it is going to get better. Etc., etc.

Anyway, this is stuff for discussion and further practice and experiment. I have a feeling we are going to see encouraging posts from Pauline about her success.

take care everyone,

alan k
http://www.acutai.com

.

Re: sounds great, and THE WILD WEST (not a post for everyone)

Pauline on 9/18/00 at 10:08 (028515)

Alan,
I like your Wild West approach of posting and so I would not be afraid to continue. Sometimes I think others may think some of my postings too harsh but then I remember I can't control what others think. Please keep posting.

As far as the strengthing of muscles during acute inflammation stages of PF. I personally think it can't be done and is counter productive. I don't base this on Mr. Youngs theory but from my own experience. I think the stretch is more important at this time to be followed up by strengthing exercises as soon as possible.

Re: sounds great, and THE WILD WEST (not a post for everyone)

alan k on 9/18/00 at 17:09 (028552)

I am still thinking of not posting anymore but your post was such a breath of fresh air I wanted to answer it.

I am a little upset that all these people are talking about being nice etc. but they are really being very mean, judgemental, and calling Mike and me all kinds of names. I am very hurt by it, after a year and half of being generous to everyone else.

I have to say I was not hurt and never was hurt by anything Mike has ever said. I'ld rather talk to him right now.

About your post, which was great because it causes discussion and clarity:

yes, I agree that strength exercises, like stretching, icing, or orthotics, may not always be right at every stage in every case. When using a home therapy product, no matter who the inventor is, you should never work through pain. Sometimes medical therapy requires one work through pain, but that is always under the personal supervision of a doctor who has physically examined you in person.

So, strength exercises that you would do in the stage you describe would be very mild, or as Nancy S.'s PT has her doing with Acu-Flex, almost non-existent. She is using it mainly for non-wieght bearing stretching and for simple pointing-the-foot-without moving exercises.
Whatever strenght exercise causes pain at any time is not appropriate for self therapy. In many cases, people have been able to scale back their stretching and strengthening to where it causes no discomfort and leads to progress. There have been a few cases where people never stretch because it never helped or even made things worse. That is rare, but happens. So in the acute stage you describe it does make sense to either scale it back, or sometimes not do it. I wouldn't say that not stretching in acute stage is a general rule that all should follow, however, because the cases vary so much.

It was nice talking to you about things we think differently about.

alan k

Re: Michael Young appt. Muscle Release Therapy

cindy dort on 9/18/00 at 22:37 (028609)

Pauline, I was at the Michael Young's workshop Saturday when he seen you and seen how well you did,, I am so glad it is working for you and I know it will continue to work for you as long as you do your stretchs like he suggested..Good luck in the future . pleas keep me informed as how you are doing and you can email me at the address above.. Blessings.. Cindy

Re: Don't worry...

Barbara TX on 9/18/00 at 23:05 (028614)

Don't worry about the perceptions of some on the board that you went over the top. Your posts have helped me a great deal and are full of measured, thoughtful advice. I always consider them carefully. Thanks. B.

Re: Forgot to Mention Michael Young appt. Muscle Release Therapy

Pauline on 9/17/00 at 15:21 (028472)

I forgot to mention something that has been posted before and that is
when sitting make sure feet are flat on the floor. Never rest
up on the toes.

Re: Michael Young appt. Muscle Release Therapy

Kathy on 9/17/00 at 19:23 (028486)

Hi Pauline, My name is Kathy and I am one of the therapists who was attending the Muscle Release Technique workshop. I thank you for allowing us to watch your treatment..it was a wonderful learning experience for us. I hope that this treatment gives you the relief from pain that you so deserve. I saw many wonderful experiences with other therapists in the group this weekend both in giving and receiving the work. It truly does seem to be an answers for those living in pain. It makes SO MUCH SENCE. I wish you and your husband much success with your streching and may you be PAIN FREE!
Blessings, Kathy

Re: Michael Young appt. Muscle Release Therapy

salina on 9/17/00 at 21:46 (028499)

Sounds like it was a very positive experience for you, Pauline.
Thanks for posting about it. It might encourage others.
Does his book explain in detail how to do this?

Re: Forgot to Mention Michael Young appt. Muscle Release Therapy

salina on 9/17/00 at 21:50 (028500)

Oh my goodness. Now that you said that, I realized that I am constantly sitting with my toes resting on the floor. I think I do it without thinking about it.
Every single time I sit at the computer, I either put my feet under the chair resting on my toes, or i stretch my feet out in front of me and am then resting on my heels. Either way, my feet are almost never flat on the floor.
I am going to start paying attention to this.

Re: Michael Young appt. Muscle Release Therapy

Denise E on 9/18/00 at 06:01 (028505)

Pauline, How did you get to be the show and tell subject in that workshop? Can you provide some details?

How do we find therapists in our area who are trained to do this?

Thanks.

Re: sounds great, and THE WILD WEST (not a post for everyone)

alan k on 9/18/00 at 08:52 (028509)

That really sounds great Pauline, and from my point of view I think you are definitely going to see results. Of course, I am biased in favor of MRT because it is similar to Thai massage. I think Mr. Young must have worked out his system in the best way for it, with all the pieces in place. You should probably get some results immediately, which is nice, but some may be more subtle and take longer to notice.

I just want to say two things, hopefully I won't disturb anyone. Now I am afraid to have discussions on the message board. This board used to be like a Wild West frontier, with people sharing all kinds of things and trying all kinds of stuff-- the image of Gordon's long list of supplements and hair folicle analysis, and someone else hitting themself with a hammer to simulate ESWT, stand out in my mind. Sometimes people got in huge arguments over whether to eat dairy or not that would take up the whole screen. I thought that was a bit too much, but now it seems like discussion has to be so constrained.

So my two things for those who like to discuss or hear about different points of view about muscle therapy:

1. Toning muslces is very important for their function. Elasticity, which is what we all want from our muscles, is not promoted through stretching alone but must involve toning as well. This is backed up by both Western and Eastern medicine.

2. The reason Mr. Young does not encourage exercise may be that for his specific techniques and system that he developed, it works better that way. Probably, experience has proven it so, when applying his specific techniques and system. Hopefully, it is not just based on a theory: that is, taking the abstract knowledge as more important than what actually works. I bet Mr. Young's reasons are based in experience not theory, but then after the experience he states it as a theory, applying to everyone. My opinion is that it applies only to his system.

It is important sometimes to stick to the rules of the system that your therapy is involved in, because if it is a good therapy it is a whole system, not a narrow approach. People doing Mr. Young's therapy should abide by what he says, at least for a couple months.

Sometimes people with one system extend their rules to all other systems, and perhaps that is good in encouraging faith in the practitioners so that they stick with the system. Mr. Young's ideas against toning are probably right for his system but maybe not for others, and the study of muscle function would indicate that. Or, maybe he is right and everyone else is wrong. You have to keep open to that possibility. I like what Dr. Z said about that in the things he has learned.

There is one sense in which Mr. Young is right, which may be a basis for being completely right, and that is with nerve impingement problems you sometimes don't want to build up muscles in the region: for instance you might want to hold off on inversion exercises if you have tts. Also, with drastic muscle imbalances you might not want to exercise the stronger muscle, perhaps. And with atrophy you have to be careful not to get too excited about exercising a muscle because it may not be up to it yet, but you do need to exercise it slowly if it is going to get better. Etc., etc.

Anyway, this is stuff for discussion and further practice and experiment. I have a feeling we are going to see encouraging posts from Pauline about her success.

take care everyone,

alan k
http://www.acutai.com

.

Re: sounds great, and THE WILD WEST (not a post for everyone)

Pauline on 9/18/00 at 10:08 (028515)

Alan,
I like your Wild West approach of posting and so I would not be afraid to continue. Sometimes I think others may think some of my postings too harsh but then I remember I can't control what others think. Please keep posting.

As far as the strengthing of muscles during acute inflammation stages of PF. I personally think it can't be done and is counter productive. I don't base this on Mr. Youngs theory but from my own experience. I think the stretch is more important at this time to be followed up by strengthing exercises as soon as possible.

Re: sounds great, and THE WILD WEST (not a post for everyone)

alan k on 9/18/00 at 17:09 (028552)

I am still thinking of not posting anymore but your post was such a breath of fresh air I wanted to answer it.

I am a little upset that all these people are talking about being nice etc. but they are really being very mean, judgemental, and calling Mike and me all kinds of names. I am very hurt by it, after a year and half of being generous to everyone else.

I have to say I was not hurt and never was hurt by anything Mike has ever said. I'ld rather talk to him right now.

About your post, which was great because it causes discussion and clarity:

yes, I agree that strength exercises, like stretching, icing, or orthotics, may not always be right at every stage in every case. When using a home therapy product, no matter who the inventor is, you should never work through pain. Sometimes medical therapy requires one work through pain, but that is always under the personal supervision of a doctor who has physically examined you in person.

So, strength exercises that you would do in the stage you describe would be very mild, or as Nancy S.'s PT has her doing with Acu-Flex, almost non-existent. She is using it mainly for non-wieght bearing stretching and for simple pointing-the-foot-without moving exercises.
Whatever strenght exercise causes pain at any time is not appropriate for self therapy. In many cases, people have been able to scale back their stretching and strengthening to where it causes no discomfort and leads to progress. There have been a few cases where people never stretch because it never helped or even made things worse. That is rare, but happens. So in the acute stage you describe it does make sense to either scale it back, or sometimes not do it. I wouldn't say that not stretching in acute stage is a general rule that all should follow, however, because the cases vary so much.

It was nice talking to you about things we think differently about.

alan k

Re: Michael Young appt. Muscle Release Therapy

cindy dort on 9/18/00 at 22:37 (028609)

Pauline, I was at the Michael Young's workshop Saturday when he seen you and seen how well you did,, I am so glad it is working for you and I know it will continue to work for you as long as you do your stretchs like he suggested..Good luck in the future . pleas keep me informed as how you are doing and you can email me at the address above.. Blessings.. Cindy

Re: Don't worry...

Barbara TX on 9/18/00 at 23:05 (028614)

Don't worry about the perceptions of some on the board that you went over the top. Your posts have helped me a great deal and are full of measured, thoughtful advice. I always consider them carefully. Thanks. B.