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Is a Dorsal Bunion the same thing as Hallux Rigid?

Posted by Beverly on 10/22/00 at 19:33 (031035)

I have a small dorsal bunion (top of the big toe joint bunion as opposed to the more common kind of bunion). It is small potatoes in comparision to my PF and PTT, but I do find that it further limits shoe choices as I try to find shoes that are not only good for my heels, arches, and ankles, but also wide enough in the toe box not to irritate the dorsal bunion. The last thing I want is to make it bigger.

Does anyone know if a dorsal bunion is the same thing as Hallux Rigid?
I tried finding this information on the web and just confused myself more. A bunion doesn't sound that so bad but Hallux Rigid sounds pretty grim.

Since I caught mine in the beginning stages, I am hoping to keep it small. I just discovered that shoe repair shops have a gadget that will punch a 'pouch' but not a hole into a shoe to accomodate the bunion. I plan to try that with my new Dansko clogs that are perfect in everyway except rubbing my bunion just a bit.

Ironically, as some of you may know, I never had the bunion until I tried orthodics back in the beginning of PF. The orthodics did me no good at all and actually created the bunion!

Thanks,
Beverly

Re: Is a Dorsal Bunion the same thing as Hallux Rigid?

wendyn on 10/22/00 at 21:58 (031047)

That's a good question Beverly. As you know - I have the same bunion. I had it removed when I was 23 but it is bothers me sometimes lately. The doctor who removed it promised it would come back in 5 to 10 years. It's been 8, so it appears she was right on target. I bought some dansko clogs on my trip. I like them, but I'm hesitant to wear them very much for fear of upsetting my feet. They feel so different compared to the Birks. They look pretty good though. I wore them out last week and it was the first time in a LONG time I felt even moderately fashionable. I think that the Hallux Rigidis or whatever is what happens because of the bunion, but I'm not positive. I know that I already have restricted mobility in that joint because of the bunion and the surgery. Before my trip it was hurting a lot, it seems better now - no explanation for the difference.

Re: Is a Dorsal Bunion the same thing as Hallux Rigid?

Julie F on 10/23/00 at 02:49 (031056)

Hi Beverly

Don't worry, you don't have Hallux Rigidus. Hallux Rigidus is a degenerative, painful arthritic condition of the big toe in which, as 'rigidus' implies, there is no or little movement in the first metatarsal-phalangeal joint. As Wendy says, it can be (but isn't necessarily) associated with a bunion, the technical term for which is Hallux Valgus.

I think Hallux Valgus may progress to Hallux Rigidus. My podiatrist tells me that my Grade 3-4 left foot bunion (which doesn't hurt but is very prominent) will almost certainly become arthritic and that I should have surgery on it before it does. Not a pleasant prospect, but maybe I will: after I get over PF on my right foot I don't want any more foot problems!

Do a search on Google for Hallux Valgus or Hallux Rigidus or 'the difference between Hallux Valgus and Hallux Rigidus'. (I think Google is the best and most useful search engine, by the way - simple to use, and extremely fast, and although it inevitably turns up 91,3l4 or so websites, it somehow ransk them so that the first few are usually the best. That's how I found heelspurs.com - which comes right at the top of the thousands of heel pain websites Google presented me with, of course.)

All the best, Julie

Re: Is a Dorsal Bunion the same thing as Hallux Rigid?

DR. Zuckerman on 10/24/00 at 20:21 (031178)

Hi,

Dorsal bunion is an exostosis on the top of the big toe joint. If the inside of the joint is damaged and there is no motion at all that this is hallux rigidis if the joint inside is damaged but there is partial limitation of motion during the gate cycle then it is called hallux limitus. In any event both can contribute to motion restriction during the gait cycle which can will inpede the function of the plantar fascia and could can plantar fasciitis. If you have a true dorsal bunion only then no problem with pf

Re: Thanks, Dr. Z. I will have my x-rayed checked for clarification

Beverly on 10/24/00 at 22:35 (031192)

Thanks Dr. Z and all,

At present the bunion is quite small. However, it is easy to irritate it if I don't don't have a wide toe box. Therefore, I only wear shoes with wide toe boxes.

I can wiggle and bend my big toe in what looks like a normal amount. I hope that is a good sign it is only a dorsal bunion. One pod said it was the beginning of Hallux Rigidus or Limitus. The orthopedic surgeon said it was a plain dorsal bunion. I think I'll have my x-rayed re-examined for clarification. For something so small, it sure is easy to make it sore. Occassionally, my big toe feels achey.

My pet peeve about this is that I never had the thing until I tried custom orthodics. I have yet to find a set of custom orthodics that don't push me up too high in my shoes. However, I have considered trying the extra depth shoes with orthodics.

Thanks,
Beverly

Re: Thanks, Dr. Z. I will have my x-rayed checked for clarification

DR. Zuckerman on 10/25/00 at 19:14 (031282)

It is the hands on examination that is the most important method to determine the degree of hallux limitis. I have seen orthosis cause hammer toes, corns etc. but dorsal bunion not yet. You could be the first. Any shoe irritation to the big toe joint will aggravate a pre-existing condition.

Re: Is a Dorsal Bunion the same thing as Hallux Rigid?

wendyn on 10/22/00 at 21:58 (031047)

That's a good question Beverly. As you know - I have the same bunion. I had it removed when I was 23 but it is bothers me sometimes lately. The doctor who removed it promised it would come back in 5 to 10 years. It's been 8, so it appears she was right on target. I bought some dansko clogs on my trip. I like them, but I'm hesitant to wear them very much for fear of upsetting my feet. They feel so different compared to the Birks. They look pretty good though. I wore them out last week and it was the first time in a LONG time I felt even moderately fashionable. I think that the Hallux Rigidis or whatever is what happens because of the bunion, but I'm not positive. I know that I already have restricted mobility in that joint because of the bunion and the surgery. Before my trip it was hurting a lot, it seems better now - no explanation for the difference.

Re: Is a Dorsal Bunion the same thing as Hallux Rigid?

Julie F on 10/23/00 at 02:49 (031056)

Hi Beverly

Don't worry, you don't have Hallux Rigidus. Hallux Rigidus is a degenerative, painful arthritic condition of the big toe in which, as 'rigidus' implies, there is no or little movement in the first metatarsal-phalangeal joint. As Wendy says, it can be (but isn't necessarily) associated with a bunion, the technical term for which is Hallux Valgus.

I think Hallux Valgus may progress to Hallux Rigidus. My podiatrist tells me that my Grade 3-4 left foot bunion (which doesn't hurt but is very prominent) will almost certainly become arthritic and that I should have surgery on it before it does. Not a pleasant prospect, but maybe I will: after I get over PF on my right foot I don't want any more foot problems!

Do a search on Google for Hallux Valgus or Hallux Rigidus or 'the difference between Hallux Valgus and Hallux Rigidus'. (I think Google is the best and most useful search engine, by the way - simple to use, and extremely fast, and although it inevitably turns up 91,3l4 or so websites, it somehow ransk them so that the first few are usually the best. That's how I found heelspurs.com - which comes right at the top of the thousands of heel pain websites Google presented me with, of course.)

All the best, Julie

Re: Is a Dorsal Bunion the same thing as Hallux Rigid?

DR. Zuckerman on 10/24/00 at 20:21 (031178)

Hi,

Dorsal bunion is an exostosis on the top of the big toe joint. If the inside of the joint is damaged and there is no motion at all that this is hallux rigidis if the joint inside is damaged but there is partial limitation of motion during the gate cycle then it is called hallux limitus. In any event both can contribute to motion restriction during the gait cycle which can will inpede the function of the plantar fascia and could can plantar fasciitis. If you have a true dorsal bunion only then no problem with pf

Re: Thanks, Dr. Z. I will have my x-rayed checked for clarification

Beverly on 10/24/00 at 22:35 (031192)

Thanks Dr. Z and all,

At present the bunion is quite small. However, it is easy to irritate it if I don't don't have a wide toe box. Therefore, I only wear shoes with wide toe boxes.

I can wiggle and bend my big toe in what looks like a normal amount. I hope that is a good sign it is only a dorsal bunion. One pod said it was the beginning of Hallux Rigidus or Limitus. The orthopedic surgeon said it was a plain dorsal bunion. I think I'll have my x-rayed re-examined for clarification. For something so small, it sure is easy to make it sore. Occassionally, my big toe feels achey.

My pet peeve about this is that I never had the thing until I tried custom orthodics. I have yet to find a set of custom orthodics that don't push me up too high in my shoes. However, I have considered trying the extra depth shoes with orthodics.

Thanks,
Beverly

Re: Thanks, Dr. Z. I will have my x-rayed checked for clarification

DR. Zuckerman on 10/25/00 at 19:14 (031282)

It is the hands on examination that is the most important method to determine the degree of hallux limitis. I have seen orthosis cause hammer toes, corns etc. but dorsal bunion not yet. You could be the first. Any shoe irritation to the big toe joint will aggravate a pre-existing condition.