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Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Posted by Beverly on 11/15/00 at 15:12 (032782)

I had my appointment with the well regarded orthodist/PT today. I had such high hopes for new orthodics. At least giving it a try.

But hope was crushed, because she does not believe she can help me. She said my pain level/style is just not consistant with normal PF.

First, she had me walk barefooted. This was hard to do, but knowing how important it is for gait analysis, I did it. Next, she asked me to stand on my toes. This, I refused. I told he the thought of how terrifyingly painful that would be and the consquences just was not something I would do without being explained why. She wanted to watch my arches. But since I believed it would hurt so much, she left that part out.

Next, she examined my foot and range of motion.

I told my miserable story.

The end result is that she said she just does not think orthodics can help solve my problem and we'll wait for the MRI but she said my pain level/style is not consistant with any PF she's seen. Her example is that I can't even get through the grocery store... ride the scooter instead. I think she thought I was being overly protective/fearful, but I'm not sure. I described what happens to me when I stay on my feet too long and the price I pay.

So, at least she was honest enough to not to sell me orthodics since she doubts that they will help me.

She says if the MRI shows PF, the only way orthodics would help is if I do the whole PF regimen of the nightsplint and weightbearing wall/calf stretches. I wish I could do the nightsplint, but until my hamstring strain/tear heals, I don't think I can handle that much flex allnight. It's all I can do to get through gentle stretches. As for the wall/calf stretch, I've had very bad experiences with that and I don't think I'm ready for it.

So, I drove home in tears. All the way across town. I feel like once again hope is crushed.

I did say that I could show her quite a few people who have PF and can barely get through the grocery store.

I don't know what to think. This was a very highly regarded orthodist and she is also a PT.

I feel like I just keep sliding backwards and the only medical person who takes my pain seriously is my physical therapist who is a saint. (He sent me to this orthodist because he's had such good luck with her.)

I can't even get the sports medicine doctor to see me. I always get shuttled off to the PA. I hope the real doctor is going to read my MRI.

I'm once again in my 'I just wish I'd get a terminal disease and be taken out of my misery' frame of mind.
Beverly

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Richard, C.Ped on 11/15/00 at 15:28 (032786)

Beverly,
I can feel how disappointed you must be just by reading your post. I am so sorry that things did not work out for you. I will print your post and my partners and I will put our heads together to see if we can come up with any ideas for you. I will let you know something ASAP.
Richard, C.Ped

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Nancy S. on 11/15/00 at 16:04 (032788)

Beverly, there are two kinds of professionals I appreciate: (1) The ones who can help me. (2) The ones honest enough to say they can't help me.
That said, pleeeaaase don't take this one person's opinion as the final word. I strongly suspect she is wrong. Why? Because your pain is not oddball or unheard of. That's clear from heelspurs.com. For my first eight months of PF, I was like you -- I couldn't go to stores without using a scooter. No one could have paid me a million bucks to stand on my tiptoes. Wall stretches hurt me (I'll never do them again, even when recovered). After 3 months of serious serious rest, I started to get back to grocery shopping, etc., and then the tendonitises hit. Back to square one -- no grocery shopping, no normal functioning at all.
I know you're getting an MRI, and that's great. If it shows PF only and no other unforeseen serious condition, of course you can be helped -- whether it's ESWT, orthotics, the right nonweightbearing stretching, shoes, whatever -- you're not hopeless. Please dry those tears, Beverly -- I can form an opinion only on what you wrote, but regardless of this person's reputation, I think she's missing something in the way of education or experience or something. If she hasn't seen as bad a PF case as yours, then in my book her experience is limited -- because there are plenty of us out here. Please note: My ex-pod who was the pits has an excellent reputation here, too, believe it or not!! It would be nice if we could count on that alone, but it ain't always so, unfortunately.
Personally, if your MRI comes out as PF, I would like to see you get a dr's script for orthotics, and take it home to the big city and see a well-experienced pedorthist or orthotist who does only orthotics-making for a living. I'll be eager to see what Richard has to say about all this.
A PT who recommends wall stretches, thinks a person with PF should be able to stand on tiptoe, thinks inability to grocery shop without a scooter in the middle of acute PF, and makes orthotics on the side -- well, I am very skeptical, and I would in no way take this person's prognosis for you as the final word. You just haven't found the right person yet, Beverly -- keep looking.
This is my opinion, and I'm sorry you had a rotten day. Tomorrow is a new day -- please keep looking! (I wonder what she would have said to me, with PF and Three tendonitises! I hate to think.)
When is your MRI?
Nancy

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Julie F on 11/15/00 at 16:30 (032790)

Dear Beverly, I'm sure Nancy is right. Take heart, and wait to see what Richard comes up with.

Julie

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

salina on 11/15/00 at 16:50 (032792)

Don't let this get you down.
I know what it feels like to go to the doctor, and be treated like you have something sooooo weird, they have never seen anything like it.
Mine always just give me a blank look when I mention the pains I have.
And when I try to explain how it gets when I am on my feet for a long time, such as grocery shopping, etc, they just get an even more confused look on their face.
At least you will get the MRI, and something might show up on there to help them understand what is going on.
I can't sleep with the splints on. So I have to take something like Tylenol PM, something with a sleep aid. I hate even saying that 'sleep aid'. But my feet and calves feel much more flexible and comfortable when I wake up. Don't really know if it is helping the pf though.
Please don't let this get you down. At least she was being honest and saying she doesn't really know what to do. She probably has only seen people with the very classic signs, and get over it rapidly. I think this is the way it works for many people.
I have went back and forth with my orthotics. Back in them now, and wearing birks around the house. Its weird, cause my feet are not really comfortable in the orthotics, and I still can't be on my feet for very long. They dont extend my weight bearing activities at all. But whenever I wear them all day, when I take them off my arches are not near as painful as they are when I wear other shoes with other inserts in them.
So they must be helping a little. hope so.
That thing she wanted you to do, raising yourself up on your ball of foot, foot raise. I read that this is a test to show if you have posterior tibial tendonitis. I tried the test on myself here at home.
And my left foot can do it a few times without feeling pain, but my left foot must be like yours, cause I started to try it, and just couldn't even bring myself to do it. Just beginning it hurt my arch area.
But on what I read, they look at how your arch is when you are on your toes, and see how painful it is for you. It said it will be extremely painful if you have posterior tibial tendonitis.
But hopefully all this will show up on the MRI and answer some questions for you.
Hang in there, and don't let them make you feel like you are strange or have weird symptoms, cause you don't. There are a ton of us trying to figure this stuff out.
best wishes to ya.

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Laurie R on 11/15/00 at 17:10 (032794)

Hi Beverly,
I hope what I have to say can make you feel a little bit better. Remenber 'We' are in this together. My heart just broke when I read your post. So sad.

I do understand your pain. Remenber before I got my MRI I was jsut a mess. The only thing that kept me there while I was getting it done was knowing that my Pod was going to know for sure what was wrong with me.

I htink for you getting the MRI is the best thing you can do . Then the doctors will take your pain seriouly. The good thing also with my MRI ,it showed that I had a bunch of fluid in my foot and ankle that i had no clue I had. I will say that my therapist has been doing a different treatment plan per my Pod for the fluid . I will say I was doing so much better for about two weeks and last night the pain started in again. Not as bad but it is back. So I really understand what you are going through.

I still can't even walk in a store ,to me a store is the worse for our feet.

PLEASE, I know you are going through alot ,but remenber we know your pain is real . That's what we are all here for to make each other feel better. I am thinking about you adn sending you wonderful thoughts .

I go back to see my Pod tomarrow for a re check . I really was so happy due to my pain level dropping and I couldn't wait to see him and tell him but now that's not going to happen. Oh well what can I so?

Hang in ther Beverly . We are all here for you. My very best to you. Laurie R

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Barbara TX on 11/15/00 at 17:30 (032796)

You are probably more scared than anything else, being told that your amount of pain is unusual... but you can see the scope of people's problems here on the board. We aren't babies, or whiners, or hypochondriacs. One nurse asked me, 'so you think you REALLY have to be in that wheelchair?' Doctors have told me that they have 'never seen anything like it before.' Big DPM guys. Neurologists. My MRI came up with only a thickened fascia, but I can't take one step without pain. Go figure. I just pray for the next thing, and when that thing comes along, I do it. Nancy is so right... there will be a time when we all hit the right things and people that can help us. It is discouraging when they fail, but the virtue is always in picking yourself back up and trying again. We will get better. We have such an advantage in this board in that we have access to the best information about this problem.

I wish I could send you some mashed potatoes today from me, with a big hug. You can look forward to your MRI and the info it will give your doctor. You will also need these MRI films for other doctors down the line who need to see them, so you are crossing a very important thing off your list. You are totally pro-active, and you'll eventually knock this thing out. You have been done a great service today. Orthotics may not be right for you. They certainly aren't right for me right now. Who knows? They might hurt you in this stage of recovery. I am trying to trust God to help me do the right thing at the right time. It's a tall order, but I'm trying.

I'll be thinking of you and having hope for you tonight. B.

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/15/00 at 18:50 (032798)

Hi,

Dry your eyes . I feel pain when ever a woman crys. This war on plantar fasciitis isn't going to stop. I, we, any and everyone may not have all of the answers but never stop trying . I truely believe that every problem has a solution. we just have to look for it. It is there it is so simple and that is why we have trouble finging it.

I want to tell you a story . I am not a great story teller so please bare with me. I follow the Middle East Conflict as much as I can. I get excited when there is a move toward peace. and then there is a bombing or whatever some on either side of this stupid conflict is killed old , young you name . By the way this story can be any war or conflict anywhere i just happen to think of this one day while reading more on the TV or more on CNN

Anyway I came up with the real solution for peace in the Middle East. It is so simple so easy. No its not live and let live . No it not you live here and I will live there. This is what it is. THOU SHALL NOT Kill.

If killing wasn't in the menu then there would be peace.

Now lets hope that G-d give me another real simple solution and this one I have control over and will be able to give to heelspurs.com.

There has to be a simple ( it will be hard) solution to this problem.

Dr. Z

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

john h on 11/15/00 at 19:41 (032801)

beverly: orthotics has never helped me one bit. only birks. there are lots of 'well respected' doctors who may not be the one you are looking for. one who has the will and determination to find the cause of your pain. you need to write a plan just as you would a buisiness plan on how to proceed. It want be easy, it want be cheap, and it want happen fast. For example 1. rule out any arthritic condition by going to a ruhemotologist 2. go to a foot and ankle surgeon (orthopedic) and make sure he checks for TTS and other diseases of the foot 3. go to a nureologist to rule out various nuerological diseases. your hopes have been built up only to come tumbling down by a dorctor who may be somehwhat insensitive to a sensitive person. many years ago i went to a orthopedic surgeon for terrible neck pain. after viewing my x-rays he said 'you have degenerative disc disease' and have the several disc that look like that of a 70 year old man. i had never heard of degenerative disc disease and i imagined all my disc desolving withing a few years. he did not explain and i did not ask. i was totally devistated. six months later he operated on my neck and i have never had a pain there in 22 year and all the disc are still there. just like agent mulder says repeatedly 'the truth is out there'! hang tough!

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/15/00 at 19:47 (032803)

Here is my first attempt at a very simple but hard treatment for your specific plantar fasciitis and foot pain.

Get into a water physical therapy program . The local YMCA should have one. I know that this is hard to do because of transportation.

I would call the YMCA and see what they have to offer. It is for arthritic patient. Not to sound like anyone is stupid or i am stupid for such a stupid idea, this is the reason why i want the warm water

Reduction in gravity. this will allow your feet to excercise and at the same time heal. my first though was outspace but we have no way to take you there yet.

I am sorry Beverely i didn't got back and search you case. I did have it one my laptop but still the !@$@ ! thing is not working. I am using a second hand computer that I purchased for $400 fast,works, but looks like it went
thru the war. My memory tells me that you haven't done complete underwater just my head out with support vests type of excercise. Am I correct or just loosing my memory.

Dr. Z

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/15/00 at 20:03 (032808)

I am assuming that all of the above had been done. So John is absolutely right on target. make a plan. I am sure he won't you mind using his plan. I would still get into the water, on my own at the YMCA. The plan is great but we have to protect your body joints , ligaments and tendons while you put his plan to work if you haven't done all that he told you. we are your coaches.

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

wendyn on 11/15/00 at 23:15 (032825)

Beverly - I'm so sorry you had such an awful day, but you do sound like you're in better spirits this evening.

I don't know if you remember or not - but back in March I went to a new pod looking for yet another pair of orthotics in the hopes that they would help me. He too, told me that he did not feel that I would tolerate them at that point - and he told me to wait for the surgeon to look at them (my feet). I was grateful for his honesty, but I know the feeling of being turned out on the street with nothing to help me. It was unnerving to know that this was good $$ in this guys pocket that I was ready to give him - and he wouldn't take it.

Your orthotics person is probably right in saying that you don't have a 'typical case of PF'. From what I know - the typical case of PF does not cause debilitating long term pain. BUT - some people with PF, seem to have more severe problems and pain - and additional problems like tendonitis TTS etc.

I had 2 cases of 'classic' PF. And although I had some substantial pain at times (especially while driving and first thing a.m.) - it did not affect my life in a big huge way. I couldn't go to aerobics, but I could still do all the basic things. If that's a typical case of PF - then maybe that's pretty much all most doctors ever see. On this board, we probably have a much higher proportion of the tough cases, because they are more likely to go searching for help on their own.

I'm really glad that you're going to get your MRI - I hope it helps show the problem. And as someone else pointed out - you can always take the films and have them looked at by another doctor.

Re: John,good plan.

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/16/00 at 00:35 (032830)

A real good foot and ankle specialist is someone who actually treats and helps alot of pf period. He should examine the following at the very least

1. The motion of the ankle and the subtalar joints of both feet.
2. The motion of the all of the metatarsal joints especially the firs (big toe joint)

3. All of the ligaments of the ankle both the lateral collaterals and the deltoid ligament.

4. Put all of the tendons and pf structures on the bottom of the foot thru palpation with the foot loaded ( the position of the foot during the toe off phase of the gait cycle.

5. Watch you walk . Walk you standing.

6. Evaluation of the posterior tibial tendon.

7, This is a good start.

Take x-rays.

Blood workup

Examine the tarsal tunnel structures including the pt nerve.

Jump right in if i left anything out

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Anna J on 11/16/00 at 07:11 (032836)

Dear Beverly
Don't really know what to say but felt I had to respond to your post. I know only too well that 'look' you get when the doctors don't believe someone could be in so much pain.
There are a lot of us out here that care.
wishing you all the best
Anna

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Richard, C.Ped on 11/16/00 at 08:00 (032842)

Beverly,
I wanted to let you know that I am waiting for my partners to come in this morning. I will show them your post to see what they think.

About the standing on the toes thing. I like to put the patient through an exam before I fit them. I test range of motion, have them stand and walk for me. I ask a bunch of questions, one of which if they are able to stand on their toes w/o pain. I don't make them do that or even walk for me if it causes to much pain. I do like to see what is going on with their feet as much as I can. I even have different ways to cast if the pain is to much.

Barbara TX: I love mashed taters!!

Re: To Nancy and Steve

Steve P on 11/16/00 at 10:08 (032847)

Thanks, Beverly. If I may say so, I think you need to be back in a place where you're surrounded by friends & family. I have the feeling this may make a difference in your recovery. I hope your place sells & you can move before long.

Best........Steve

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Kay S on 11/16/00 at 15:22 (032860)

I am starting to get mixed up on who is who because there are so many of us! But I wanted to add my sympathy to your situation. What a lousy day you had, huh? I hope today is better and that you have a new resolve to keep fighting this awful condition. Several people have seemed to be helped by the water exercise, so it won't hurt to try it. (I hope the pool is close to the parking lot!) When you read how many doctors we have all been to in our search for some relief, I hope you will take heart, and keep the faith. Good luck!

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. Is it a Woman thing?...

dfeet on 11/16/00 at 20:36 (032886)

Oh, Beverly. I am so sorry. I can only say that I hope that things will turn around for you soon. Have faith because they do.

I have a question-Do you think it's the 'Woman' thing? I mean, that because you're a woman that, even though you went to a woman professional, you aren't taken seriously? That your pain is dismissed almost patronizingly so? Or that your pain can't be THAT bad because you're a fragile, delicate woman? I know too often that this occurs whether you have a female or male professional treating you. I'm speaking as someone who has experienced this first hand. You must search for the best team members. You must gather the best people around you in order to affect progress, even if it means getting second or third opinions. I too went to a very well respected Pod-a star athlete who supposedly treated star athletes-AARRGGG!! He destroyed me. I finally found(thru my PT) a young progressive, conservative foot and ankle orthopod who has been fantastic. So there is hope. Just hang in there. You have us-Best wishes-dfeet

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

john h on 11/17/00 at 11:34 (032918)

the standing or walking on toes and then standing and walking heels is a standard test for people being diagnosed with back pain. i would guess they are looking for muscle weakness or loss and trying to recreate pain in the back or leg.

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

john h on 11/17/00 at 11:36 (032919)

the following URL will allow you to search for an Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Surgeon in your area:

http://207.226.48.192/aofas/

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Nancy S. on 11/17/00 at 12:57 (032939)

Beverly, my orthotist asked me many questions about my pain before examining me and, based on that, didn't ask me to do anything that might possibly hurt me. He had me move my feet a few different ways, then watched me stand up barefoot (and watched my arches sink), then closely looked at my feet from different angles as I stood.
Nancy

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Pauline on 11/18/00 at 20:07 (033039)

Hi Kay,
Sorry to hear your tale about your visit to the Orthodist. I know how angry and disappointed you must feel. All of us keep looking for that one thing or things that will do the trick and make our PF just go away. Its the nature of PF. Along the way we get disappointed and some even develop depression because nothing seems to help and the time in pain just goes on.

My suggestion would be for you to set a priority list for yourself. Forget about the orthotics for now. Many of us never use them and get well just the same. You have something that needs to heal before you
can begin the exercise necessary to heal the PF. Why not concentrate on that first. As for the PF you probably can safely massage your legs and feet and use Ice. A tennis ball rolled on the bottom when ever you sit down and other simple exercises that will not bother your other tendon problem.

When your tendon is healed and stronger you can begin the stretches necessary to help the PF. If you havent tried Physical Therapy see if you can get some. Patience is going to be your friend. Belief that you will get well is a necessity. Keep on writing for when your down, we'll
pick you up. No one gets left behind.

P.S. You might try some heel lifts in your Running Shoes. Make your own
they work better sometimes than the store bought ones.

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Richard, C.Ped on 11/15/00 at 15:28 (032786)

Beverly,
I can feel how disappointed you must be just by reading your post. I am so sorry that things did not work out for you. I will print your post and my partners and I will put our heads together to see if we can come up with any ideas for you. I will let you know something ASAP.
Richard, C.Ped

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Nancy S. on 11/15/00 at 16:04 (032788)

Beverly, there are two kinds of professionals I appreciate: (1) The ones who can help me. (2) The ones honest enough to say they can't help me.
That said, pleeeaaase don't take this one person's opinion as the final word. I strongly suspect she is wrong. Why? Because your pain is not oddball or unheard of. That's clear from heelspurs.com. For my first eight months of PF, I was like you -- I couldn't go to stores without using a scooter. No one could have paid me a million bucks to stand on my tiptoes. Wall stretches hurt me (I'll never do them again, even when recovered). After 3 months of serious serious rest, I started to get back to grocery shopping, etc., and then the tendonitises hit. Back to square one -- no grocery shopping, no normal functioning at all.
I know you're getting an MRI, and that's great. If it shows PF only and no other unforeseen serious condition, of course you can be helped -- whether it's ESWT, orthotics, the right nonweightbearing stretching, shoes, whatever -- you're not hopeless. Please dry those tears, Beverly -- I can form an opinion only on what you wrote, but regardless of this person's reputation, I think she's missing something in the way of education or experience or something. If she hasn't seen as bad a PF case as yours, then in my book her experience is limited -- because there are plenty of us out here. Please note: My ex-pod who was the pits has an excellent reputation here, too, believe it or not!! It would be nice if we could count on that alone, but it ain't always so, unfortunately.
Personally, if your MRI comes out as PF, I would like to see you get a dr's script for orthotics, and take it home to the big city and see a well-experienced pedorthist or orthotist who does only orthotics-making for a living. I'll be eager to see what Richard has to say about all this.
A PT who recommends wall stretches, thinks a person with PF should be able to stand on tiptoe, thinks inability to grocery shop without a scooter in the middle of acute PF, and makes orthotics on the side -- well, I am very skeptical, and I would in no way take this person's prognosis for you as the final word. You just haven't found the right person yet, Beverly -- keep looking.
This is my opinion, and I'm sorry you had a rotten day. Tomorrow is a new day -- please keep looking! (I wonder what she would have said to me, with PF and Three tendonitises! I hate to think.)
When is your MRI?
Nancy

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Julie F on 11/15/00 at 16:30 (032790)

Dear Beverly, I'm sure Nancy is right. Take heart, and wait to see what Richard comes up with.

Julie

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

salina on 11/15/00 at 16:50 (032792)

Don't let this get you down.
I know what it feels like to go to the doctor, and be treated like you have something sooooo weird, they have never seen anything like it.
Mine always just give me a blank look when I mention the pains I have.
And when I try to explain how it gets when I am on my feet for a long time, such as grocery shopping, etc, they just get an even more confused look on their face.
At least you will get the MRI, and something might show up on there to help them understand what is going on.
I can't sleep with the splints on. So I have to take something like Tylenol PM, something with a sleep aid. I hate even saying that 'sleep aid'. But my feet and calves feel much more flexible and comfortable when I wake up. Don't really know if it is helping the pf though.
Please don't let this get you down. At least she was being honest and saying she doesn't really know what to do. She probably has only seen people with the very classic signs, and get over it rapidly. I think this is the way it works for many people.
I have went back and forth with my orthotics. Back in them now, and wearing birks around the house. Its weird, cause my feet are not really comfortable in the orthotics, and I still can't be on my feet for very long. They dont extend my weight bearing activities at all. But whenever I wear them all day, when I take them off my arches are not near as painful as they are when I wear other shoes with other inserts in them.
So they must be helping a little. hope so.
That thing she wanted you to do, raising yourself up on your ball of foot, foot raise. I read that this is a test to show if you have posterior tibial tendonitis. I tried the test on myself here at home.
And my left foot can do it a few times without feeling pain, but my left foot must be like yours, cause I started to try it, and just couldn't even bring myself to do it. Just beginning it hurt my arch area.
But on what I read, they look at how your arch is when you are on your toes, and see how painful it is for you. It said it will be extremely painful if you have posterior tibial tendonitis.
But hopefully all this will show up on the MRI and answer some questions for you.
Hang in there, and don't let them make you feel like you are strange or have weird symptoms, cause you don't. There are a ton of us trying to figure this stuff out.
best wishes to ya.

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Laurie R on 11/15/00 at 17:10 (032794)

Hi Beverly,
I hope what I have to say can make you feel a little bit better. Remenber 'We' are in this together. My heart just broke when I read your post. So sad.

I do understand your pain. Remenber before I got my MRI I was jsut a mess. The only thing that kept me there while I was getting it done was knowing that my Pod was going to know for sure what was wrong with me.

I htink for you getting the MRI is the best thing you can do . Then the doctors will take your pain seriouly. The good thing also with my MRI ,it showed that I had a bunch of fluid in my foot and ankle that i had no clue I had. I will say that my therapist has been doing a different treatment plan per my Pod for the fluid . I will say I was doing so much better for about two weeks and last night the pain started in again. Not as bad but it is back. So I really understand what you are going through.

I still can't even walk in a store ,to me a store is the worse for our feet.

PLEASE, I know you are going through alot ,but remenber we know your pain is real . That's what we are all here for to make each other feel better. I am thinking about you adn sending you wonderful thoughts .

I go back to see my Pod tomarrow for a re check . I really was so happy due to my pain level dropping and I couldn't wait to see him and tell him but now that's not going to happen. Oh well what can I so?

Hang in ther Beverly . We are all here for you. My very best to you. Laurie R

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Barbara TX on 11/15/00 at 17:30 (032796)

You are probably more scared than anything else, being told that your amount of pain is unusual... but you can see the scope of people's problems here on the board. We aren't babies, or whiners, or hypochondriacs. One nurse asked me, 'so you think you REALLY have to be in that wheelchair?' Doctors have told me that they have 'never seen anything like it before.' Big DPM guys. Neurologists. My MRI came up with only a thickened fascia, but I can't take one step without pain. Go figure. I just pray for the next thing, and when that thing comes along, I do it. Nancy is so right... there will be a time when we all hit the right things and people that can help us. It is discouraging when they fail, but the virtue is always in picking yourself back up and trying again. We will get better. We have such an advantage in this board in that we have access to the best information about this problem.

I wish I could send you some mashed potatoes today from me, with a big hug. You can look forward to your MRI and the info it will give your doctor. You will also need these MRI films for other doctors down the line who need to see them, so you are crossing a very important thing off your list. You are totally pro-active, and you'll eventually knock this thing out. You have been done a great service today. Orthotics may not be right for you. They certainly aren't right for me right now. Who knows? They might hurt you in this stage of recovery. I am trying to trust God to help me do the right thing at the right time. It's a tall order, but I'm trying.

I'll be thinking of you and having hope for you tonight. B.

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/15/00 at 18:50 (032798)

Hi,

Dry your eyes . I feel pain when ever a woman crys. This war on plantar fasciitis isn't going to stop. I, we, any and everyone may not have all of the answers but never stop trying . I truely believe that every problem has a solution. we just have to look for it. It is there it is so simple and that is why we have trouble finging it.

I want to tell you a story . I am not a great story teller so please bare with me. I follow the Middle East Conflict as much as I can. I get excited when there is a move toward peace. and then there is a bombing or whatever some on either side of this stupid conflict is killed old , young you name . By the way this story can be any war or conflict anywhere i just happen to think of this one day while reading more on the TV or more on CNN

Anyway I came up with the real solution for peace in the Middle East. It is so simple so easy. No its not live and let live . No it not you live here and I will live there. This is what it is. THOU SHALL NOT Kill.

If killing wasn't in the menu then there would be peace.

Now lets hope that G-d give me another real simple solution and this one I have control over and will be able to give to heelspurs.com.

There has to be a simple ( it will be hard) solution to this problem.

Dr. Z

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

john h on 11/15/00 at 19:41 (032801)

beverly: orthotics has never helped me one bit. only birks. there are lots of 'well respected' doctors who may not be the one you are looking for. one who has the will and determination to find the cause of your pain. you need to write a plan just as you would a buisiness plan on how to proceed. It want be easy, it want be cheap, and it want happen fast. For example 1. rule out any arthritic condition by going to a ruhemotologist 2. go to a foot and ankle surgeon (orthopedic) and make sure he checks for TTS and other diseases of the foot 3. go to a nureologist to rule out various nuerological diseases. your hopes have been built up only to come tumbling down by a dorctor who may be somehwhat insensitive to a sensitive person. many years ago i went to a orthopedic surgeon for terrible neck pain. after viewing my x-rays he said 'you have degenerative disc disease' and have the several disc that look like that of a 70 year old man. i had never heard of degenerative disc disease and i imagined all my disc desolving withing a few years. he did not explain and i did not ask. i was totally devistated. six months later he operated on my neck and i have never had a pain there in 22 year and all the disc are still there. just like agent mulder says repeatedly 'the truth is out there'! hang tough!

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/15/00 at 19:47 (032803)

Here is my first attempt at a very simple but hard treatment for your specific plantar fasciitis and foot pain.

Get into a water physical therapy program . The local YMCA should have one. I know that this is hard to do because of transportation.

I would call the YMCA and see what they have to offer. It is for arthritic patient. Not to sound like anyone is stupid or i am stupid for such a stupid idea, this is the reason why i want the warm water

Reduction in gravity. this will allow your feet to excercise and at the same time heal. my first though was outspace but we have no way to take you there yet.

I am sorry Beverely i didn't got back and search you case. I did have it one my laptop but still the !@$@ ! thing is not working. I am using a second hand computer that I purchased for $400 fast,works, but looks like it went
thru the war. My memory tells me that you haven't done complete underwater just my head out with support vests type of excercise. Am I correct or just loosing my memory.

Dr. Z

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/15/00 at 20:03 (032808)

I am assuming that all of the above had been done. So John is absolutely right on target. make a plan. I am sure he won't you mind using his plan. I would still get into the water, on my own at the YMCA. The plan is great but we have to protect your body joints , ligaments and tendons while you put his plan to work if you haven't done all that he told you. we are your coaches.

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

wendyn on 11/15/00 at 23:15 (032825)

Beverly - I'm so sorry you had such an awful day, but you do sound like you're in better spirits this evening.

I don't know if you remember or not - but back in March I went to a new pod looking for yet another pair of orthotics in the hopes that they would help me. He too, told me that he did not feel that I would tolerate them at that point - and he told me to wait for the surgeon to look at them (my feet). I was grateful for his honesty, but I know the feeling of being turned out on the street with nothing to help me. It was unnerving to know that this was good $$ in this guys pocket that I was ready to give him - and he wouldn't take it.

Your orthotics person is probably right in saying that you don't have a 'typical case of PF'. From what I know - the typical case of PF does not cause debilitating long term pain. BUT - some people with PF, seem to have more severe problems and pain - and additional problems like tendonitis TTS etc.

I had 2 cases of 'classic' PF. And although I had some substantial pain at times (especially while driving and first thing a.m.) - it did not affect my life in a big huge way. I couldn't go to aerobics, but I could still do all the basic things. If that's a typical case of PF - then maybe that's pretty much all most doctors ever see. On this board, we probably have a much higher proportion of the tough cases, because they are more likely to go searching for help on their own.

I'm really glad that you're going to get your MRI - I hope it helps show the problem. And as someone else pointed out - you can always take the films and have them looked at by another doctor.

Re: John,good plan.

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/16/00 at 00:35 (032830)

A real good foot and ankle specialist is someone who actually treats and helps alot of pf period. He should examine the following at the very least

1. The motion of the ankle and the subtalar joints of both feet.
2. The motion of the all of the metatarsal joints especially the firs (big toe joint)

3. All of the ligaments of the ankle both the lateral collaterals and the deltoid ligament.

4. Put all of the tendons and pf structures on the bottom of the foot thru palpation with the foot loaded ( the position of the foot during the toe off phase of the gait cycle.

5. Watch you walk . Walk you standing.

6. Evaluation of the posterior tibial tendon.

7, This is a good start.

Take x-rays.

Blood workup

Examine the tarsal tunnel structures including the pt nerve.

Jump right in if i left anything out

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Anna J on 11/16/00 at 07:11 (032836)

Dear Beverly
Don't really know what to say but felt I had to respond to your post. I know only too well that 'look' you get when the doctors don't believe someone could be in so much pain.
There are a lot of us out here that care.
wishing you all the best
Anna

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Richard, C.Ped on 11/16/00 at 08:00 (032842)

Beverly,
I wanted to let you know that I am waiting for my partners to come in this morning. I will show them your post to see what they think.

About the standing on the toes thing. I like to put the patient through an exam before I fit them. I test range of motion, have them stand and walk for me. I ask a bunch of questions, one of which if they are able to stand on their toes w/o pain. I don't make them do that or even walk for me if it causes to much pain. I do like to see what is going on with their feet as much as I can. I even have different ways to cast if the pain is to much.

Barbara TX: I love mashed taters!!

Re: To Nancy and Steve

Steve P on 11/16/00 at 10:08 (032847)

Thanks, Beverly. If I may say so, I think you need to be back in a place where you're surrounded by friends & family. I have the feeling this may make a difference in your recovery. I hope your place sells & you can move before long.

Best........Steve

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Kay S on 11/16/00 at 15:22 (032860)

I am starting to get mixed up on who is who because there are so many of us! But I wanted to add my sympathy to your situation. What a lousy day you had, huh? I hope today is better and that you have a new resolve to keep fighting this awful condition. Several people have seemed to be helped by the water exercise, so it won't hurt to try it. (I hope the pool is close to the parking lot!) When you read how many doctors we have all been to in our search for some relief, I hope you will take heart, and keep the faith. Good luck!

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. Is it a Woman thing?...

dfeet on 11/16/00 at 20:36 (032886)

Oh, Beverly. I am so sorry. I can only say that I hope that things will turn around for you soon. Have faith because they do.

I have a question-Do you think it's the 'Woman' thing? I mean, that because you're a woman that, even though you went to a woman professional, you aren't taken seriously? That your pain is dismissed almost patronizingly so? Or that your pain can't be THAT bad because you're a fragile, delicate woman? I know too often that this occurs whether you have a female or male professional treating you. I'm speaking as someone who has experienced this first hand. You must search for the best team members. You must gather the best people around you in order to affect progress, even if it means getting second or third opinions. I too went to a very well respected Pod-a star athlete who supposedly treated star athletes-AARRGGG!! He destroyed me. I finally found(thru my PT) a young progressive, conservative foot and ankle orthopod who has been fantastic. So there is hope. Just hang in there. You have us-Best wishes-dfeet

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

john h on 11/17/00 at 11:34 (032918)

the standing or walking on toes and then standing and walking heels is a standard test for people being diagnosed with back pain. i would guess they are looking for muscle weakness or loss and trying to recreate pain in the back or leg.

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

john h on 11/17/00 at 11:36 (032919)

the following URL will allow you to search for an Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Surgeon in your area:

http://207.226.48.192/aofas/

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Nancy S. on 11/17/00 at 12:57 (032939)

Beverly, my orthotist asked me many questions about my pain before examining me and, based on that, didn't ask me to do anything that might possibly hurt me. He had me move my feet a few different ways, then watched me stand up barefoot (and watched my arches sink), then closely looked at my feet from different angles as I stood.
Nancy

Re: Came home from orthodist in tears. She doesn't think she can help me...

Pauline on 11/18/00 at 20:07 (033039)

Hi Kay,
Sorry to hear your tale about your visit to the Orthodist. I know how angry and disappointed you must feel. All of us keep looking for that one thing or things that will do the trick and make our PF just go away. Its the nature of PF. Along the way we get disappointed and some even develop depression because nothing seems to help and the time in pain just goes on.

My suggestion would be for you to set a priority list for yourself. Forget about the orthotics for now. Many of us never use them and get well just the same. You have something that needs to heal before you
can begin the exercise necessary to heal the PF. Why not concentrate on that first. As for the PF you probably can safely massage your legs and feet and use Ice. A tennis ball rolled on the bottom when ever you sit down and other simple exercises that will not bother your other tendon problem.

When your tendon is healed and stronger you can begin the stretches necessary to help the PF. If you havent tried Physical Therapy see if you can get some. Patience is going to be your friend. Belief that you will get well is a necessity. Keep on writing for when your down, we'll
pick you up. No one gets left behind.

P.S. You might try some heel lifts in your Running Shoes. Make your own
they work better sometimes than the store bought ones.