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Cost of ESWT

Posted by john h on 11/17/00 at 11:59 (032928)

some of you are going to be in shock when you see the charges for a treatment of ESWT with the Ossatron. From my phone calls it appears the charges will double those in Canada and and someplaces more. I could fly to New Jersey, have a treatment from Dr. Z, take Judy S, Wendy, Nancy S, and Barbara along with Dr Z to New York City for a night of revelery and dancing and have money left over compared to an Ossatron treatment expense.

Re: Cost of ESWT

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/17/00 at 17:18 (032960)

Hi, Who is charging this kind of money for the orbasone. Are you talking about my office and Katie. The numbers you are talking about aren't my office so who is charging $3500 plus the doctors fee. Are you talking about the ossatron not the orbasone.

Re: Cost of ESWT

Kay S on 11/17/00 at 17:58 (032962)

The 3500 dollars along with a 1200 dollar doctor's fee is what was told to me when I called the clinic in Des Plaines. I am going to be evaluated there on the 27th, and if they won't agree to the same price as you charge, I will be coming to New Jersey. This is the Orbasone, and it is for ONE foot, and unless I misunderstood, it doesn't include any further treatments should they be needed. They put you to sleep (Versed, Fentanyl, etc.) for this, said they have done more than a hundred procedures, and would not do both feet at once. If you want the name, let me know. I hate to keep repeating it online. I am taking my MRI films with me and think it won't hurt to have him see if the ESWT will help. Or should I even bother? Maybe I should just cancel the appointment and plan my trip. What do you think? He'll probably charge me up the wazoo for the office visit too. I keep hanging onto these little threads of hope for some relief, but I also hate to waste so much time going from here to there.

Re: Cost of ESWT

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/17/00 at 18:59 (032966)

Ok.

I know who you are talking about. Didn't know what they charged. I can't tell anyone what they should charge. That is a ~!#~#~ of money but that's my opinion. I have told any and every man/woman that they should charge what they think is fair but they must look that person in the eye when they do it.

About two feet. I would rather do one but will do two if you are flying or driving a long distance. You probaby will need a second treatment.
I have found that under a local without being asleep is very easy. you can be given a small dose of something like valium if you want. The last person that felt anything was John H but he is a baby (ha ha)

The only new rule that I have with doing long distance ESWT feet.is that you have to talk to Dr. Z on the phone ( that's me) so that we can discuss our treatment plan. I need to have an MRI done before the treatment is done . Any medical records that you have should be sent or faxed to me.

If you want to talk to me before your trip to your Illinois orbasone appointment just call my office and speak with Katie my ESWT coordinator. She will arrnage a time that i can call you and we can talk. I have no problems talking to you and then you deciding where is the best place for you to have your treatment done.

In the end you are what matters. I would love to have you as a patient but you need to chose what is best for you.

So give Katie a call at 1-856-848-3338 and tell her to make an arrangement to talk to Dr. Z. You can fax any record information that you feel I should have. especiallly an mri report. You can e-mail me at footcare@home.com if you wish to give me your history.

The purpose of this conversation is to help you know if ESWT will help you. !!! I always like the fact that there were more then one Orbasone sites . The more sites the better for the patients. The price will come down when the competition goes up . At the very least the service will go up with the increase in site. The great thing about this country is competition. I will someday tell you my opinion about why we have HMO's but that is another story for another day.

Sincerly yours,

Dr. Z

I

Re: Cost of ESWT

Kay S on 11/17/00 at 20:22 (032975)

Isn't it fun when someone talks dollars and cents???? Everyone always seems to skirt around the issue and hardly ever gives a concrete number. I think when I was told those exhorbitant prices, that doc must have thought he was talking to a rookie. Little did he know I have a large team of fellow foot sufferers who will help me make the right decisions, guide me through this process, give me moral support, and identify when someone is full of @#$@! I am going to call Dr. Z's office and go to NJ asap. I won't whine like John. (jk, john!) I am starting to feel more in control already. I want help and won't stop until I get it.

Re: Cost of ESWT

Nancy N on 11/17/00 at 22:31 (032984)

Kay--

I wonder if it would help other people who haven't found this site if you told this doctor that you're not going to give him your life savings because you know better, and then tell him why. I think you could do it without even mentioning this site, and you could tell him that even with the airfare it's cheaper for you to go to NJ, which is saying something (almost nothing is cheaper here than it is anywhere else!). You could be very nice about it, but still make your point. I wonder if it would get him thinking about charging less for his treatments, regardless of where you go for yours.

Whatever you decide, I hope it works out for you. Keep us posted.

Re: Cost of ESWT...don't price shop...go for the most qualified

Kate on 11/18/00 at 09:12 (032997)

ESWT is very expensive, and in as much as it isn't covered by any insurance ( and you absolutely cannot use lithotripsy codes...it's illegal!) it's a very steep expenditure. A decision that is both financial and otherwise worth deep thought.
However, please, regardless of where you get your treatment, if you need it, get it from a doctor that has had full, and thorough training, not only in delivering the treatment, but in the diagnosis, and screening, and the all important after care and follow up ( which is in my opinion equally important to the tx itself).
Also, make sure that your procedure is done BY THE DOCTOR, not a technician. Determination of the focal point is soooooooooo important, and only a Board certified Doctor trained specifcally for ESWT can do that.

Kate

Re: Cost of ESWT

Barb-NY on 11/18/00 at 15:19 (033024)

Just something to consider regarding prices:

The Ossatron is FDA approved for PF, so eventually insurance companies will start to cover the procedure (either in part or totally).

The Orbasone is not FDA approved for PF, and until it is, it will never be covered under insurance.

Re: Cost of ESWT

Martha B. on 11/18/00 at 15:38 (033026)

I knew that FDA approval of the ossatron was forthcoming but I was so desperate that I didnt feel I could wait. I am so thankful that I invested the time and money to go to Toronto for my 1 time treatment. That was the best $1500 I ever spent. Life is great now! I have posted in the past that I felt once it was in the USA that doctors would probably use anesthesia and put you in the hospital as an outpatient which would run up the costs tremendously.

Re: Cost of ESWT...don't price shop...go for the most qualified

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/18/00 at 19:09 (033034)

OK Kate

You get a raise. What she is saying is very true. You all realize that she does work in Dr. Z office. Kate has been in the medical field for alot of years . She has seen the good, the bad, and ugly and has to put up with Dr. Z

Re: Cost of ESWT

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/18/00 at 19:21 (033035)

I have always pictured ESWT as an in-office procedure. I have been an ambulatory in-office doctor for the past twenty years. I have done thousands of Miminial incison surgical procedures in my office. This is how I pictured ESWT . Done under a local in a doctor's office . Maybe a valium. It takes about thirty four minutes for one foot. the patient leaves. There is no cost for the anesthesia, the hospital the room and whatever charge the ASC and or hospital charges. , there is no insurance coverage. The more machines out there the decrease in price or the increase in the perfection of the ESWT procedure. IF you can't help patients then you don't get patients. When insurance is involved you get over charging. You get insurance abuse. If anyone wants to add to this or help with my vision just speak up. Oh. any way the price will come down is for the price to come down for the machine. just like calculators and stereo systems. I remember fifteen years ago for a CO2 laser for 50,000 today if about five thousand. So the price to make the machine must come down.

Re: Cost of ESWT

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/18/00 at 19:29 (033036)

The insurance companies don't have to cover any procedure whether it is FDA approved or FDA cleared. I just got off the phone today with a medical director who knows all about the ossatron and the FDA approval. She makes the approval decision and depends on other doctor thru out the country. Her answer was it is still investigational until medicare get a CPT code. The time this usally takes is one to five years.

So do you reallly think that an insurance company wants to pay for a procedure called plantar fasciitis. Believe until the medical doctor or the head of HCFA gets pf it won't be covered.

A short Story, the only way that Medicare in 1964 included podiatry was due to President Johnson having an ingrown toe that his podiatrist got rid. of

So until we can find some big shot .or some president who needs ESWT the insurance companies are going to take as long as they can to stall with this new cost called ESWT.

Re: Cost of ESWT

Dr. Wishnie on 11/19/00 at 09:06 (033054)

I agree with Dr. Zuckerman. The best way to contain the cost is to have numerous physicians performing this procedure. Then through competition, the price will automatically decrease. If insurances are involved, they will tell you who to see, they will dictate if the procedure is needed and they will take their time to decide. A lot of paper work. Remember, when you are deciding to have ESWT, you already tried numerous conservative treatments which failed. At that time, the pain can be excruciating and you want to get rid of it ASAP. So now you have to wait even longer due to the insurance company. Dr. Z just recently trained me and his goal is to get as many people performing this as possible. Great idea!

Dr. Wishnie

Re: Cost of ESWT

Barbara TX on 11/20/00 at 12:23 (033158)

I don't really understand the necessity of being put to sleep, but I'm guessing that its only for people who are very nervous about any sort of medical treatment. For me, the local was completely comfortable, and it was actually pleasant not to have to feel my foot for awhile (and the lidocaine gives you a nice, warm feeling in your foot). The sensation is like tapping on the bottom of your heel with the back of a spoon (no kidding) until it is a little itchy. No big deal, unless you are one of those sensitive, dainty sorts like John H. B.

Re: Cost of ESWT

john h on 11/24/00 at 11:52 (033393)

dr Z: the numbers i am talking about are for the Ossatron. I called 3 doctors current using the Ossatron and these are the numbers given to me over the phone.

Re: Cost of ESWT

john h on 11/24/00 at 11:54 (033394)

kay you are correct in all the people i called about the Ossatron there was no other treatments included.

Re: Cost of ESWT

john h on 11/24/00 at 11:56 (033395)

john h is all man is no 'girly guy'!!!! dr z you are spreading bad info about the manly man john h.

Re: Cost of ESWT

john h on 11/24/00 at 19:25 (033439)

dr z as i posted. on group of doctors charge $1500 for one foot. They use the hospital's Ossatron and the hospital charges including the machine, room,etc range about $3500 for one foot. That is $5000 for one foot. i talked to the hopital and the doctors office and these are the facts. 2 other doctors i talked to were in the same range by a little less.

Re: Cost of ESWT

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/17/00 at 17:18 (032960)

Hi, Who is charging this kind of money for the orbasone. Are you talking about my office and Katie. The numbers you are talking about aren't my office so who is charging $3500 plus the doctors fee. Are you talking about the ossatron not the orbasone.

Re: Cost of ESWT

Kay S on 11/17/00 at 17:58 (032962)

The 3500 dollars along with a 1200 dollar doctor's fee is what was told to me when I called the clinic in Des Plaines. I am going to be evaluated there on the 27th, and if they won't agree to the same price as you charge, I will be coming to New Jersey. This is the Orbasone, and it is for ONE foot, and unless I misunderstood, it doesn't include any further treatments should they be needed. They put you to sleep (Versed, Fentanyl, etc.) for this, said they have done more than a hundred procedures, and would not do both feet at once. If you want the name, let me know. I hate to keep repeating it online. I am taking my MRI films with me and think it won't hurt to have him see if the ESWT will help. Or should I even bother? Maybe I should just cancel the appointment and plan my trip. What do you think? He'll probably charge me up the wazoo for the office visit too. I keep hanging onto these little threads of hope for some relief, but I also hate to waste so much time going from here to there.

Re: Cost of ESWT

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/17/00 at 18:59 (032966)

Ok.

I know who you are talking about. Didn't know what they charged. I can't tell anyone what they should charge. That is a ~!#~#~ of money but that's my opinion. I have told any and every man/woman that they should charge what they think is fair but they must look that person in the eye when they do it.

About two feet. I would rather do one but will do two if you are flying or driving a long distance. You probaby will need a second treatment.
I have found that under a local without being asleep is very easy. you can be given a small dose of something like valium if you want. The last person that felt anything was John H but he is a baby (ha ha)

The only new rule that I have with doing long distance ESWT feet.is that you have to talk to Dr. Z on the phone ( that's me) so that we can discuss our treatment plan. I need to have an MRI done before the treatment is done . Any medical records that you have should be sent or faxed to me.

If you want to talk to me before your trip to your Illinois orbasone appointment just call my office and speak with Katie my ESWT coordinator. She will arrnage a time that i can call you and we can talk. I have no problems talking to you and then you deciding where is the best place for you to have your treatment done.

In the end you are what matters. I would love to have you as a patient but you need to chose what is best for you.

So give Katie a call at 1-856-848-3338 and tell her to make an arrangement to talk to Dr. Z. You can fax any record information that you feel I should have. especiallly an mri report. You can e-mail me at footcare@home.com if you wish to give me your history.

The purpose of this conversation is to help you know if ESWT will help you. !!! I always like the fact that there were more then one Orbasone sites . The more sites the better for the patients. The price will come down when the competition goes up . At the very least the service will go up with the increase in site. The great thing about this country is competition. I will someday tell you my opinion about why we have HMO's but that is another story for another day.

Sincerly yours,

Dr. Z

I

Re: Cost of ESWT

Kay S on 11/17/00 at 20:22 (032975)

Isn't it fun when someone talks dollars and cents???? Everyone always seems to skirt around the issue and hardly ever gives a concrete number. I think when I was told those exhorbitant prices, that doc must have thought he was talking to a rookie. Little did he know I have a large team of fellow foot sufferers who will help me make the right decisions, guide me through this process, give me moral support, and identify when someone is full of @#$@! I am going to call Dr. Z's office and go to NJ asap. I won't whine like John. (jk, john!) I am starting to feel more in control already. I want help and won't stop until I get it.

Re: Cost of ESWT

Nancy N on 11/17/00 at 22:31 (032984)

Kay--

I wonder if it would help other people who haven't found this site if you told this doctor that you're not going to give him your life savings because you know better, and then tell him why. I think you could do it without even mentioning this site, and you could tell him that even with the airfare it's cheaper for you to go to NJ, which is saying something (almost nothing is cheaper here than it is anywhere else!). You could be very nice about it, but still make your point. I wonder if it would get him thinking about charging less for his treatments, regardless of where you go for yours.

Whatever you decide, I hope it works out for you. Keep us posted.

Re: Cost of ESWT...don't price shop...go for the most qualified

Kate on 11/18/00 at 09:12 (032997)

ESWT is very expensive, and in as much as it isn't covered by any insurance ( and you absolutely cannot use lithotripsy codes...it's illegal!) it's a very steep expenditure. A decision that is both financial and otherwise worth deep thought.
However, please, regardless of where you get your treatment, if you need it, get it from a doctor that has had full, and thorough training, not only in delivering the treatment, but in the diagnosis, and screening, and the all important after care and follow up ( which is in my opinion equally important to the tx itself).
Also, make sure that your procedure is done BY THE DOCTOR, not a technician. Determination of the focal point is soooooooooo important, and only a Board certified Doctor trained specifcally for ESWT can do that.

Kate

Re: Cost of ESWT

Barb-NY on 11/18/00 at 15:19 (033024)

Just something to consider regarding prices:

The Ossatron is FDA approved for PF, so eventually insurance companies will start to cover the procedure (either in part or totally).

The Orbasone is not FDA approved for PF, and until it is, it will never be covered under insurance.

Re: Cost of ESWT

Martha B. on 11/18/00 at 15:38 (033026)

I knew that FDA approval of the ossatron was forthcoming but I was so desperate that I didnt feel I could wait. I am so thankful that I invested the time and money to go to Toronto for my 1 time treatment. That was the best $1500 I ever spent. Life is great now! I have posted in the past that I felt once it was in the USA that doctors would probably use anesthesia and put you in the hospital as an outpatient which would run up the costs tremendously.

Re: Cost of ESWT...don't price shop...go for the most qualified

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/18/00 at 19:09 (033034)

OK Kate

You get a raise. What she is saying is very true. You all realize that she does work in Dr. Z office. Kate has been in the medical field for alot of years . She has seen the good, the bad, and ugly and has to put up with Dr. Z

Re: Cost of ESWT

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/18/00 at 19:21 (033035)

I have always pictured ESWT as an in-office procedure. I have been an ambulatory in-office doctor for the past twenty years. I have done thousands of Miminial incison surgical procedures in my office. This is how I pictured ESWT . Done under a local in a doctor's office . Maybe a valium. It takes about thirty four minutes for one foot. the patient leaves. There is no cost for the anesthesia, the hospital the room and whatever charge the ASC and or hospital charges. , there is no insurance coverage. The more machines out there the decrease in price or the increase in the perfection of the ESWT procedure. IF you can't help patients then you don't get patients. When insurance is involved you get over charging. You get insurance abuse. If anyone wants to add to this or help with my vision just speak up. Oh. any way the price will come down is for the price to come down for the machine. just like calculators and stereo systems. I remember fifteen years ago for a CO2 laser for 50,000 today if about five thousand. So the price to make the machine must come down.

Re: Cost of ESWT

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/18/00 at 19:29 (033036)

The insurance companies don't have to cover any procedure whether it is FDA approved or FDA cleared. I just got off the phone today with a medical director who knows all about the ossatron and the FDA approval. She makes the approval decision and depends on other doctor thru out the country. Her answer was it is still investigational until medicare get a CPT code. The time this usally takes is one to five years.

So do you reallly think that an insurance company wants to pay for a procedure called plantar fasciitis. Believe until the medical doctor or the head of HCFA gets pf it won't be covered.

A short Story, the only way that Medicare in 1964 included podiatry was due to President Johnson having an ingrown toe that his podiatrist got rid. of

So until we can find some big shot .or some president who needs ESWT the insurance companies are going to take as long as they can to stall with this new cost called ESWT.

Re: Cost of ESWT

Dr. Wishnie on 11/19/00 at 09:06 (033054)

I agree with Dr. Zuckerman. The best way to contain the cost is to have numerous physicians performing this procedure. Then through competition, the price will automatically decrease. If insurances are involved, they will tell you who to see, they will dictate if the procedure is needed and they will take their time to decide. A lot of paper work. Remember, when you are deciding to have ESWT, you already tried numerous conservative treatments which failed. At that time, the pain can be excruciating and you want to get rid of it ASAP. So now you have to wait even longer due to the insurance company. Dr. Z just recently trained me and his goal is to get as many people performing this as possible. Great idea!

Dr. Wishnie

Re: Cost of ESWT

Barbara TX on 11/20/00 at 12:23 (033158)

I don't really understand the necessity of being put to sleep, but I'm guessing that its only for people who are very nervous about any sort of medical treatment. For me, the local was completely comfortable, and it was actually pleasant not to have to feel my foot for awhile (and the lidocaine gives you a nice, warm feeling in your foot). The sensation is like tapping on the bottom of your heel with the back of a spoon (no kidding) until it is a little itchy. No big deal, unless you are one of those sensitive, dainty sorts like John H. B.

Re: Cost of ESWT

john h on 11/24/00 at 11:52 (033393)

dr Z: the numbers i am talking about are for the Ossatron. I called 3 doctors current using the Ossatron and these are the numbers given to me over the phone.

Re: Cost of ESWT

john h on 11/24/00 at 11:54 (033394)

kay you are correct in all the people i called about the Ossatron there was no other treatments included.

Re: Cost of ESWT

john h on 11/24/00 at 11:56 (033395)

john h is all man is no 'girly guy'!!!! dr z you are spreading bad info about the manly man john h.

Re: Cost of ESWT

john h on 11/24/00 at 19:25 (033439)

dr z as i posted. on group of doctors charge $1500 for one foot. They use the hospital's Ossatron and the hospital charges including the machine, room,etc range about $3500 for one foot. That is $5000 for one foot. i talked to the hopital and the doctors office and these are the facts. 2 other doctors i talked to were in the same range by a little less.