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Magnets for heel pain?

Posted by Scott R on 11/20/00 at 18:16 (033182)

I'm thinking of doing a double-blind study of magnts and heel pain. I could get 500 heel pain patients to participate. I just need a good design for the magnets. If I can't find a good alternative, I'm thinking of Neodymium-Iron-Boron type (the strongest type) disks or rectangles 1/4 x 1/4 x 1/16 inches in a grid pattern sandwhiched between duct tape for a flexible design to place under the heel. Or maybe one big disk placed in a cut-out of an insert. Here's a long document on bio-magnets (300 references) http://www.garynull.com/Documents/magnets.htm

Re: Magnets for heel pain?

john a on 11/21/00 at 13:41 (033245)

This is an interesting idea. Edmund Scientific sells NIB magnets of various sizes and shapes. But they're pricey: $5 for a .5 inch disc: http://www.edmundscientific.com/Products/ListProducts.cfm?catid=79 I wonder if it would matter if the 'therapy' entailed wearing the magnets overnight (embedded in a heel-hugger-like device) instead of in your shoes. It would certainly be easier to design something comfortable.

Re: Magnets for heel pain?

Scott R on 11/21/00 at 18:28 (033256)

I found the magnets. 1/4 x 1/8 x 3/64. Strongest type. 30 cents each. You place ten of them in a grid between a sandwich of duct tape. You alternate polarities on the placebo sets to greatly reduce the strength (I've tested it on my monitor to compare the proper design to the placebo: there is a huge difference). But the average user will not be able to see the difference even by testing it with metal objects. You advertise the study at heelspurs.com. Sell at cost, make the 10,000 members of my email list enthusiastic about the study. Placebo's will be replaced by the real thing at end of study. You include a post card for feedback (or just use email since they'll all have computer access) and instructions for use and measuring effectiveness. Pay a doctor for his office staff to randomize the blindness and then another doctor for his office staff to resolve the blind results. Advertise the good or bad study results at heelspurs.com. heelspurs.com and the maker of the product split profits of future sales if it actually works. FDA approval isn't too far-fetched, but there's no patent on the results.

Re: Magnets for heel pain?

john a on 11/22/00 at 10:42 (033299)

That's a cheap price - where did you find them? Would you believe that alternating polarities in the grid is actually how some advocates of magnet therapy say if should be done for _greatest_ effect! Also, you'd be able to detect the placebo pretty easily by using another magnet, or even folding the grid over on itself, wouldn't you?

Re: Magnets for heel pain?

Scott R on 11/22/00 at 11:46 (033305)

I wouldn't advertise the difference so very few would think to do that.

Re: Magnets for heel pain?

john a on 11/22/00 at 12:02 (033308)

What happens if the placebo ends up being as effective or more so than the non-placebo? It seems like that would still validate magnets as effective therapy, since magnets are in fact being used, even in the placebo.

Re: cheap magnets

Scott R on 11/23/00 at 09:22 (033356)

John a, the magnets can be found on page 40 of the edmund scietific catalog, bottom right. They are 'neodymium' which means they may not be the strongest type (NIB). 16 for $4.95 You could buy them and place them in a grid pattern inside a duct tape sandwhich and then tape the sandwhich to your heel.. Just make sure you got the polarity straight: use a spare one oriented the same way to find when it repels or attracts to the others. It take a little while to get the oriented straight. 1-800-728-6999 item number v82-273 for anyone else wanting to try it. Below are some pics I took. The last one shows athletic tape keeping the sandwhich against the heel. The strength was 0.5 gauss at 5 inches away as tested by a compass.





Re: Magnets for heel pain?

john h on 11/24/00 at 11:47 (033391)

i have tried magnets for both feet and back with zero results yet some people say they help. every medical journal article i have read gives them a thumbs down as to effectivness.

Re: Magnets for heel pain?

john a on 11/21/00 at 13:41 (033245)

This is an interesting idea. Edmund Scientific sells NIB magnets of various sizes and shapes. But they're pricey: $5 for a .5 inch disc: http://www.edmundscientific.com/Products/ListProducts.cfm?catid=79 I wonder if it would matter if the 'therapy' entailed wearing the magnets overnight (embedded in a heel-hugger-like device) instead of in your shoes. It would certainly be easier to design something comfortable.

Re: Magnets for heel pain?

Scott R on 11/21/00 at 18:28 (033256)

I found the magnets. 1/4 x 1/8 x 3/64. Strongest type. 30 cents each. You place ten of them in a grid between a sandwich of duct tape. You alternate polarities on the placebo sets to greatly reduce the strength (I've tested it on my monitor to compare the proper design to the placebo: there is a huge difference). But the average user will not be able to see the difference even by testing it with metal objects. You advertise the study at heelspurs.com. Sell at cost, make the 10,000 members of my email list enthusiastic about the study. Placebo's will be replaced by the real thing at end of study. You include a post card for feedback (or just use email since they'll all have computer access) and instructions for use and measuring effectiveness. Pay a doctor for his office staff to randomize the blindness and then another doctor for his office staff to resolve the blind results. Advertise the good or bad study results at heelspurs.com. heelspurs.com and the maker of the product split profits of future sales if it actually works. FDA approval isn't too far-fetched, but there's no patent on the results.

Re: Magnets for heel pain?

john a on 11/22/00 at 10:42 (033299)

That's a cheap price - where did you find them? Would you believe that alternating polarities in the grid is actually how some advocates of magnet therapy say if should be done for _greatest_ effect! Also, you'd be able to detect the placebo pretty easily by using another magnet, or even folding the grid over on itself, wouldn't you?

Re: Magnets for heel pain?

Scott R on 11/22/00 at 11:46 (033305)

I wouldn't advertise the difference so very few would think to do that.

Re: Magnets for heel pain?

john a on 11/22/00 at 12:02 (033308)

What happens if the placebo ends up being as effective or more so than the non-placebo? It seems like that would still validate magnets as effective therapy, since magnets are in fact being used, even in the placebo.

Re: cheap magnets

Scott R on 11/23/00 at 09:22 (033356)

John a, the magnets can be found on page 40 of the edmund scietific catalog, bottom right. They are 'neodymium' which means they may not be the strongest type (NIB). 16 for $4.95 You could buy them and place them in a grid pattern inside a duct tape sandwhich and then tape the sandwhich to your heel.. Just make sure you got the polarity straight: use a spare one oriented the same way to find when it repels or attracts to the others. It take a little while to get the oriented straight. 1-800-728-6999 item number v82-273 for anyone else wanting to try it. Below are some pics I took. The last one shows athletic tape keeping the sandwhich against the heel. The strength was 0.5 gauss at 5 inches away as tested by a compass.





Re: Magnets for heel pain?

john h on 11/24/00 at 11:47 (033391)

i have tried magnets for both feet and back with zero results yet some people say they help. every medical journal article i have read gives them a thumbs down as to effectivness.