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Race for the cure

Posted by Pauline on 12/28/00 at 19:51 (035530)

Dr. Z
Your article in Podiatry Online would indicate that you are afraid that if Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Surgeons jump on ESWT a large segment of your profession would be put out of business. Quote 'ESWT is a procedure that the Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Surgeons are going to jump on. We don't want to have another area that is taken away from us. Just think if it is covered by insurance, (which I hope it never is but that's another subject.) it is possible that all treatments of heel spur pain could be removed or referred to the Foot and Ankle Orthopedics. The people at Healthronic (Ossatran) did all of their FDA studies by Foot and Ankle Orthopedics. Why do you think they did This? Why wasn't Podiatry included? ESWT was introduced in 1997 by Richard Alvarez MD at the American College of Foot and Ankle Orthopedics national convention. Every Foot and Ankle Orthopedic Surgeon knows about this procedure and has the jump start. The enemy is out there.'

Dr. Gaynor writes ' The Orbasone from Norland does not need FDA approval and can be bought and used now, but again is not reimbursable (probably due to no FDA approval).' If I remember correctly this is true, the Orbasone only has FDA Clearance not full Approval.

Can't we all just get along. What happened to 'Doing what is best for the Patient' instead of being concerned over who is going to perform the treatment. I can see, however, your point if the Ossatron is the only machine that has FDA approval and the insurance companies will only reimburse for this particular procedure and Healthronics will only sell Ossatron to Foot and Ankle Orthopedic Centers this could present a real problem for Podiatist who can only used the Orbasone Machine.

According to Dr. Gaynor DPM in an adjacent article he states 'The Orbasone goes for $150,000 and the manufacturers suggest charging $2,000 for the total treatment, after 75 procedures it's paid for. It is not covered by insurance. The Ossatron by Healthronics cost $400,000 and their plan is to put it in busy surgicare centers and split the cost of the Ossatron (200K) while taking a 1/2 cut in the procedure fee. With FDA approval it is expected to be reimbursed by insurance carriers.

With no reimbursment by insurance companies you can see the money flying over to the Orthopedic Centers. This would certainly tabulate with your comment speaking about insurance coverage where you say you hope it is never covered because when and if it is covered your nightmare may come true.

So once again we see not a Race for the Cure but rather a race for the Buck.

Question: Is it legal to limit the sales of the Ossatran only to Orthopedic centers?

Re: Race for the cure

Dr. Zuckerman on 12/28/00 at 22:16 (035539)

The following is what I see.

1. Due to the high cost of ESWT you the patient will pay pay pay. or wait wait wait or have to jump jump jump.

2. What is wrong with my profession being the leaders in ESWT. We sure have been the leaders in foot care health. I love my profession and don't want to see them made smaller and smaller because of their size. It would be a very sad scene if the best foot care providers in the world PODIATRISTS are reduced in size due to big money . We know more about the biomechanic of the human then any other profession knows and will know

3. ESWT is a treatment that is only as good as the skill and back ground of the foot provider . This is my opinion and I won't debate.

4. In Europe they are laughing at the expense and use of ESWT in hospital and or surgical centers.

5. Who ever told you that if doesn't cost money to get a cure. The problem is with only one machine on the market at a fair price and then another machine that is at very high price. Competition is will bring the price down. So if you want one high price keep talking about one machine. If you want the price to come down then talk about bring more machines into the market.

So Pauline you have to decide what you want . What I want is an ESWT treatment at a fair price. Can't have that with only one machine on the market.

By the way this is old posting that for some reason comes up when Dr. Z start distributing ESWT which is much lowering in price then other machines. In addition I am now doing high energy ESWT treatment without any needles, in my office and the patients walking out . This is how they do this in Europe. This is where ESWT started in Europe. So if you want the above situation in office. walk out no needles. no hospital , Start supporting more machines and an open market. Why is there an open market in Europe.

I am sure that there is common sense and the FDA and will make sure that the public is the winner not this company or that company

So keep talking about one profession one company and you will get just that
high price, restrictions on the public and every other possible restriction that you can think of.

Just take a look at the HMO's and what restrictions you have now. The same rules of delay , referral, can't do ESWT not enough pain, or not enough steriod injections. So if you want that keep hoping that only one machine is out there.

Re: Race for the cure

Dr. Zuckerman on 12/28/00 at 22:29 (035540)

Oh

I now remember when I was preaching some of the fear into my profession. At that time neither podiatry and or orthopedic knew anything about ESWT

My thinking at that time was maybe I could get podiatry to move ESWT out to the public by placing the fear of losing patients to orthopedics

I guess the only one that read this was you Pauline. So do you want to go to podiatry school then do ESWT and help some feet.??

When I read you quotes I started to laught . I don't think that any podiatrist took me seriously until the ossatron started to be distributed.

I realize that I have no control over the spread of ESWT to the public.
I realize now that one time and only time will spread ESWT information to the public and to podiatry and to orthopedics.

Re: To Ken A or is it ShaKen And angry Race for the cure

Pauline on 12/29/00 at 11:46 (035561)

How long did it take?

Re: To Ken A or is it ShaKen And angry Race for the cure

Pauline on 12/29/00 at 13:24 (035566)

Ken,
No I didn't take your message as an attack nor personal and I certainly don't represent Healthtronics, but maybe stock is warranted. I meerly thought you were usine a psudo-name because many entries in past listings use the letters K,e,n ,A as I have used in my title ShaKEN And angry. Pretty Cleaver don't you think.

Re: To Ken A or is it ShaKen And angry Race for the cure

Dr. Zuckerman on 12/30/00 at 18:54 (035656)

We are watching Ken A. Becareful

Happy New Year.

Re: Race for the cure

Dr. Zuckerman on 12/28/00 at 22:16 (035539)

The following is what I see.

1. Due to the high cost of ESWT you the patient will pay pay pay. or wait wait wait or have to jump jump jump.

2. What is wrong with my profession being the leaders in ESWT. We sure have been the leaders in foot care health. I love my profession and don't want to see them made smaller and smaller because of their size. It would be a very sad scene if the best foot care providers in the world PODIATRISTS are reduced in size due to big money . We know more about the biomechanic of the human then any other profession knows and will know

3. ESWT is a treatment that is only as good as the skill and back ground of the foot provider . This is my opinion and I won't debate.

4. In Europe they are laughing at the expense and use of ESWT in hospital and or surgical centers.

5. Who ever told you that if doesn't cost money to get a cure. The problem is with only one machine on the market at a fair price and then another machine that is at very high price. Competition is will bring the price down. So if you want one high price keep talking about one machine. If you want the price to come down then talk about bring more machines into the market.

So Pauline you have to decide what you want . What I want is an ESWT treatment at a fair price. Can't have that with only one machine on the market.

By the way this is old posting that for some reason comes up when Dr. Z start distributing ESWT which is much lowering in price then other machines. In addition I am now doing high energy ESWT treatment without any needles, in my office and the patients walking out . This is how they do this in Europe. This is where ESWT started in Europe. So if you want the above situation in office. walk out no needles. no hospital , Start supporting more machines and an open market. Why is there an open market in Europe.

I am sure that there is common sense and the FDA and will make sure that the public is the winner not this company or that company

So keep talking about one profession one company and you will get just that
high price, restrictions on the public and every other possible restriction that you can think of.

Just take a look at the HMO's and what restrictions you have now. The same rules of delay , referral, can't do ESWT not enough pain, or not enough steriod injections. So if you want that keep hoping that only one machine is out there.

Re: Race for the cure

Dr. Zuckerman on 12/28/00 at 22:29 (035540)

Oh

I now remember when I was preaching some of the fear into my profession. At that time neither podiatry and or orthopedic knew anything about ESWT

My thinking at that time was maybe I could get podiatry to move ESWT out to the public by placing the fear of losing patients to orthopedics

I guess the only one that read this was you Pauline. So do you want to go to podiatry school then do ESWT and help some feet.??

When I read you quotes I started to laught . I don't think that any podiatrist took me seriously until the ossatron started to be distributed.

I realize that I have no control over the spread of ESWT to the public.
I realize now that one time and only time will spread ESWT information to the public and to podiatry and to orthopedics.

Re: To Ken A or is it ShaKen And angry Race for the cure

Pauline on 12/29/00 at 11:46 (035561)

How long did it take?

Re: To Ken A or is it ShaKen And angry Race for the cure

Pauline on 12/29/00 at 13:24 (035566)

Ken,
No I didn't take your message as an attack nor personal and I certainly don't represent Healthtronics, but maybe stock is warranted. I meerly thought you were usine a psudo-name because many entries in past listings use the letters K,e,n ,A as I have used in my title ShaKEN And angry. Pretty Cleaver don't you think.

Re: To Ken A or is it ShaKen And angry Race for the cure

Dr. Zuckerman on 12/30/00 at 18:54 (035656)

We are watching Ken A. Becareful

Happy New Year.