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Ossatron/Healthtronics

Posted by john h on 1/03/01 at 17:49 (035875)

Healthtronics announced today that it had reached its goal of training pods and orthopods in the use of the ossatron for the year 2000. they planon training 50 pods/orthopods per month during 2001. 5 training sites have been established

Re: Ossatron/Healthtronics

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/04/01 at 18:30 (035925)

John do you think you could put in a good word for Dr. Z. I would love to go to the training session, and get to take a look at this machine. In fact I would love to try any and all ESWT machine. I have learned from Dr. Roberta from Italy that the most important way to compare machines is to know exactly what the amount of energy the generator is putting out at any specific kv. This confirms my understanidng of ESWT that the joules /mm2 is how you do a comparision betweeen this machine and that machine.

So for the last time and I promise the last time only could you or someone call healthronics and tell Dr. Z, pf sufferers and the FDA just what the joules /mm2 is at the focal point of treatment.

At my session I am going to bring a hydrphone instrument and open up the panel and test it myself . That's if I don't get shocked myself trying to do this.

Re: Ossatron/Healthtronics

john a on 1/05/01 at 09:46 (035960)

Speaking of ESWT... why is the technology behind ESWT so big and expensive? Not being an engineer or anything, it seems like it should be possible to make some much smaller (maybe even handheld) and cheaper (<$500) device to do much the same thing. Any engineers out there to say why it can't be done?

Re: Ossatron/Healthtronics

Scott R on 1/05/01 at 11:43 (035967)

Speaking as an electrical engineer, I can say they could be much smaller than at least the OssaTron and very inexpensive when sold in bulk. The only heavy thing in them should be a coil of wire to help generate the electrical pulse. I assume they're sending a current through the coil then interrupting the current flow with some sort of switch that should be designed well enough to last (either solid state of mechanical). That switch and possibly a rectifier or 2 or 4 would be the things most likely to break, especially on bad designs. Breaking the current flow causes the voltage on the coil to jump very high in order to create a spark across the gap. The larger the coil, the more energy it can store as current which translates after some losses into energy sent into the tissue. The heavier the coil the more energy it can release. Maybe even the piezoelectric electro-mechanical models use a coil. Or maybe elect. engineers have figured out better ways to generate the voltage and energy for the pulses these days. But it's probably the same system spark plugs on cars use, but a bit larger. Maybe 10 times the cost of a car's electrical ignition system when manufactured in bulk.

Re: Ossatron/Healthtronics

john h on 1/05/01 at 12:01 (035972)

john a: i think a lot of the cost involves the extensive testing required by the fda and the development cost of the equipment. we also have to share revenue betweew the manufacturer,doctor,and clinic/hospital.

Re: Ossatron/Healthtronics

john h on 1/05/01 at 12:12 (035974)

we have been going through thousands of high voltage transformers here in arkansas and i was supprised to see that they sell for only about $500 each. when they blow it sounds like a cannon. when the ice storm reached its peak hundreds of these were blowing all over the city and night sky looked like anti-aircraft fire with the low over hanging clouds.

Re: Ossatron/Healthtronics

Barb-NY on 1/05/01 at 12:34 (035976)

My father is an electrical engineer. Maybe I'll ask him to build me a machine.

Re: Ossatron/Healthtronics

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/05/01 at 18:47 (035994)

Here is how the ossatron and the orbasone work. They use what is called spark gap technology. You have a power supply it feeds into a generator which produces some electricity anyhere from 14-18 kv into a spark plug that is submerged into a steel bowl under salt water. The electric current goes into the plug until it reaches this gap and a gas explosion take place at the gap of the spark plug. The gas creates a pressure wave called a shock wave whick is focused by the shape of the steel bowl . The foot is placed on top of a latex shield and the now focused pressure-shock - sound wave hits the foot. This sound wave which is mechanical energy is then transfored into energy in the form of joules.. mm2 and this energy has a biological healing effect on the tissue that it come in contact with

So can you now built it . I forgot to mention all of the computer boards that control the pulses, the pumps for filling and draining the machine,
The system for raising the articulating arm, The system that controls the remote control . In Europe these machine are alot less.

I bet the ossatron is about 75-100 thousand in Europe where it has been used and already tested. Most lithotripsy machine for renal stones are about 250,000 in Europe and close to 750000 when they decide to come to the USA.

You see they test them in Europe and then come into our country for the big money making.

Re: Ossatron/Healthtronics

john h on 1/06/01 at 18:27 (036043)

dr z:: i am wondering if you do not buy a ossatron as i think healthtronics retains ownership and charge on a per use basis then how are the people who are trained selected? why don't you call their headquarters and ask how you get on their training list and is their a cost?

Re: Another EE

stevei a on 1/06/01 at 18:32 (036044)

i am a I = E/R guy myself. In Arkansas everyone knows that pie are round not squared.

Re: Another EE -- please translate and define

Scott R on 1/07/01 at 18:17 (036096)

What do EEs do? One of us maintains heelspurs.com
But if you're talking about REAL EEs, the kind that do real EE work for a living, then that's a small subset of those that graduated in EE. A REAL electrical engineer engineers electrical and electronic stuff. But if you want to know what we studied in school it's this: the mathematics of electromagnetic waves with emphasis on how such waves can be manipulated using man-made devices. The funny thing is that most electrical engineers had only one class that involved quantuum physics so that by the time they graduate, they think electromagnetic waves are real.

Re: Another EE -- please translate and define

john h on 1/07/01 at 18:21 (036097)

scott and steve are the guys to go to for info on chips and circuit boards but if you want to talk vacume tubes come to me. my first radio was tuned in on a filling in my tooth.

Re: Scott --- Did you understand my "Eli the Ice Man" reference? eom

Scott R on 1/07/01 at 21:14 (036115)

Well, I guess since no one else wants to use the message board these days, we can waste it on gEEk talk. No, I couldn't figure that one out. How about this one: 'Bad beer rots our young guts but vodka goes well.' All I can figure out is: Eli: voltage, inductance, current. Ice: current, capacitance, voltage. They have the same DE with solutions of the form y=1-e^(-t/RC) or something like that. Step function gives 63% of the final value after 1 time constant (RC for the ICE). I made a B in power. The rest were A's. The 25 companies I interviewed with didn't want me so I had to go to work for minimum wage for 2 years before starting out at $19,600 as a pollution control specialist. Graduate school paid better but it seems everyone made up useless projects for research grants.

Re: Scott --- Did you understand my "Eli the Ice Man" reference? eom

Kay S on 1/08/01 at 08:52 (036135)

Scott--what do you mean 'since no one else wants to use these message boards????' This board is the LIFELINE for most of us!! Now I am worried that when Beverly and Nancy S. are gone for a couple of weeks, you're going to think we don't care anymore and try to take this away from us. Don't do it or we'll kEEl you.
Kay

Re: Ossatron/Healthtronics

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/04/01 at 18:30 (035925)

John do you think you could put in a good word for Dr. Z. I would love to go to the training session, and get to take a look at this machine. In fact I would love to try any and all ESWT machine. I have learned from Dr. Roberta from Italy that the most important way to compare machines is to know exactly what the amount of energy the generator is putting out at any specific kv. This confirms my understanidng of ESWT that the joules /mm2 is how you do a comparision betweeen this machine and that machine.

So for the last time and I promise the last time only could you or someone call healthronics and tell Dr. Z, pf sufferers and the FDA just what the joules /mm2 is at the focal point of treatment.

At my session I am going to bring a hydrphone instrument and open up the panel and test it myself . That's if I don't get shocked myself trying to do this.

Re: Ossatron/Healthtronics

john a on 1/05/01 at 09:46 (035960)

Speaking of ESWT... why is the technology behind ESWT so big and expensive? Not being an engineer or anything, it seems like it should be possible to make some much smaller (maybe even handheld) and cheaper (<$500) device to do much the same thing. Any engineers out there to say why it can't be done?

Re: Ossatron/Healthtronics

Scott R on 1/05/01 at 11:43 (035967)

Speaking as an electrical engineer, I can say they could be much smaller than at least the OssaTron and very inexpensive when sold in bulk. The only heavy thing in them should be a coil of wire to help generate the electrical pulse. I assume they're sending a current through the coil then interrupting the current flow with some sort of switch that should be designed well enough to last (either solid state of mechanical). That switch and possibly a rectifier or 2 or 4 would be the things most likely to break, especially on bad designs. Breaking the current flow causes the voltage on the coil to jump very high in order to create a spark across the gap. The larger the coil, the more energy it can store as current which translates after some losses into energy sent into the tissue. The heavier the coil the more energy it can release. Maybe even the piezoelectric electro-mechanical models use a coil. Or maybe elect. engineers have figured out better ways to generate the voltage and energy for the pulses these days. But it's probably the same system spark plugs on cars use, but a bit larger. Maybe 10 times the cost of a car's electrical ignition system when manufactured in bulk.

Re: Ossatron/Healthtronics

john h on 1/05/01 at 12:01 (035972)

john a: i think a lot of the cost involves the extensive testing required by the fda and the development cost of the equipment. we also have to share revenue betweew the manufacturer,doctor,and clinic/hospital.

Re: Ossatron/Healthtronics

john h on 1/05/01 at 12:12 (035974)

we have been going through thousands of high voltage transformers here in arkansas and i was supprised to see that they sell for only about $500 each. when they blow it sounds like a cannon. when the ice storm reached its peak hundreds of these were blowing all over the city and night sky looked like anti-aircraft fire with the low over hanging clouds.

Re: Ossatron/Healthtronics

Barb-NY on 1/05/01 at 12:34 (035976)

My father is an electrical engineer. Maybe I'll ask him to build me a machine.

Re: Ossatron/Healthtronics

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/05/01 at 18:47 (035994)

Here is how the ossatron and the orbasone work. They use what is called spark gap technology. You have a power supply it feeds into a generator which produces some electricity anyhere from 14-18 kv into a spark plug that is submerged into a steel bowl under salt water. The electric current goes into the plug until it reaches this gap and a gas explosion take place at the gap of the spark plug. The gas creates a pressure wave called a shock wave whick is focused by the shape of the steel bowl . The foot is placed on top of a latex shield and the now focused pressure-shock - sound wave hits the foot. This sound wave which is mechanical energy is then transfored into energy in the form of joules.. mm2 and this energy has a biological healing effect on the tissue that it come in contact with

So can you now built it . I forgot to mention all of the computer boards that control the pulses, the pumps for filling and draining the machine,
The system for raising the articulating arm, The system that controls the remote control . In Europe these machine are alot less.

I bet the ossatron is about 75-100 thousand in Europe where it has been used and already tested. Most lithotripsy machine for renal stones are about 250,000 in Europe and close to 750000 when they decide to come to the USA.

You see they test them in Europe and then come into our country for the big money making.

Re: Ossatron/Healthtronics

john h on 1/06/01 at 18:27 (036043)

dr z:: i am wondering if you do not buy a ossatron as i think healthtronics retains ownership and charge on a per use basis then how are the people who are trained selected? why don't you call their headquarters and ask how you get on their training list and is their a cost?

Re: Another EE

stevei a on 1/06/01 at 18:32 (036044)

i am a I = E/R guy myself. In Arkansas everyone knows that pie are round not squared.

Re: Another EE -- please translate and define

Scott R on 1/07/01 at 18:17 (036096)

What do EEs do? One of us maintains heelspurs.com
But if you're talking about REAL EEs, the kind that do real EE work for a living, then that's a small subset of those that graduated in EE. A REAL electrical engineer engineers electrical and electronic stuff. But if you want to know what we studied in school it's this: the mathematics of electromagnetic waves with emphasis on how such waves can be manipulated using man-made devices. The funny thing is that most electrical engineers had only one class that involved quantuum physics so that by the time they graduate, they think electromagnetic waves are real.

Re: Another EE -- please translate and define

john h on 1/07/01 at 18:21 (036097)

scott and steve are the guys to go to for info on chips and circuit boards but if you want to talk vacume tubes come to me. my first radio was tuned in on a filling in my tooth.

Re: Scott --- Did you understand my "Eli the Ice Man" reference? eom

Scott R on 1/07/01 at 21:14 (036115)

Well, I guess since no one else wants to use the message board these days, we can waste it on gEEk talk. No, I couldn't figure that one out. How about this one: 'Bad beer rots our young guts but vodka goes well.' All I can figure out is: Eli: voltage, inductance, current. Ice: current, capacitance, voltage. They have the same DE with solutions of the form y=1-e^(-t/RC) or something like that. Step function gives 63% of the final value after 1 time constant (RC for the ICE). I made a B in power. The rest were A's. The 25 companies I interviewed with didn't want me so I had to go to work for minimum wage for 2 years before starting out at $19,600 as a pollution control specialist. Graduate school paid better but it seems everyone made up useless projects for research grants.

Re: Scott --- Did you understand my "Eli the Ice Man" reference? eom

Kay S on 1/08/01 at 08:52 (036135)

Scott--what do you mean 'since no one else wants to use these message boards????' This board is the LIFELINE for most of us!! Now I am worried that when Beverly and Nancy S. are gone for a couple of weeks, you're going to think we don't care anymore and try to take this away from us. Don't do it or we'll kEEl you.
Kay