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For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Posted by Marjorie on 1/07/01 at 16:19 (036084)

Hello all,

I'm part of a study at Montefiore Medical Center and I believe that I was treated. I've had pf in both feet (off and on) for five years. (Conservative methods failed.) I have very high arches but have been a runner, soccer player, hiker with NEVER any foot pain until this. My first treatment was late Aug; the second treatment was early Sept. (both feet).

Within two weeks of the first treatment, I was almost completely painfree. Since the second treatment, I've experienced extreme pain, great improvements and setbacks. I've rested my feet, have been working from home, don't carry groceries, nonweightbearing stretches, strengthening with the PFT (improvement with it), splints at night, never barefoot..etc. Never walked more than a half a block at a time.

I was almost completely painfree again when I went home for the holidays, when I had a huge setback from, I can only imagine, from dragging my suitcase (with wheels) down the steps because there was no one to help me. I'm in as much pain as ever now and it is constant. I'm returning to taping. I'm crawling around my apt. because I cannot stand to stress my feet.

Is this back and forth normal? Do most see healing within the 6 mos. to one year mark?

Please share your experiences. I've read the patient progress reports and messages...
Thanks.

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

john h on 1/07/01 at 17:21 (036095)

i have had two orbasone treatements after having pf for 6 years. the first one showed results after 2 weeks. the 2nd treatment showed results after 12 weeks. never was pain worse than before treatment. the information out there is that maximum results can be expected after 12 weeks. some people i have read have had bad pain after treatment that went away after various periods.

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/07/01 at 19:36 (036101)

ESWT via ossatron report and explain on their web site that post-ESWT treatment can have its up and downs over a period of twelve weeks. So you can have some great days, bad days. This is how I explain healing plantar fascia releases to patients it is like a roller coaster some good days some bad days and then it just stops .

Over activity is a direct reflection of how many good and bad days you can have. I would go to a removal boot cast or at least an elastic band for ankle support if you are having a bad pain cycle. This is how I treat bad pain after post plantar fascia release.

ESWT is an injury to the insertion of the area of the plantar fascia that hasn't healed. It is much much less then any type of surgery but you have to view this as some type of injury that has been caused by a sound wave.

The fact that you did have pain relief shows that the area has responsed .

If the boot cast doesn't help it may be a consideration to go back and have a low energy treatment on this area . Low energy created analgia to the area of treatment.

There are some patients that do have what you are going thru.

If the area doesn't repond to the boot cast or elastic support. Let me know and I would be happy to administer low energy to the area .

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Barb-NY on 1/07/01 at 21:57 (036118)

I'm part of the Monefiore study too, but for tennis elbow.

Are you sure that you actually got THE treatment? Maybe you did receive the placebo. Your mind may have played tricks with you after your first treatment. That's what placebos are all about in double blind studies.

I have my last appointment next month and will finally learn if I got placeboed. I think (know) I did. I feel absolutly no change.

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Nancy N on 1/08/01 at 08:27 (036132)

Marjorie--

I'm part of the same study, also for my feet. I am pretty sure that, even though I do feel much better than I did in August, I got the placebo. I didn't feel any change until I started taking the Celebrex and using the Acu-Flex, and I suspect if I stopped either of those things I would go right back to where I started.

A friend of mine is also in the study and after talking to her, we are pretty sure she got the real treatment and I didn't. She reported that the treatment was very painful, even with the lidocaine block, and that she felt very bruised and used a lot of ice for about two days after each treatment. She has been feeling markedly better, but she has also experienced a few setbacks (she felt good enough to go play tennis a few weeks ago and may have re-injured herself in the process).

By contrast, I felt no difference between the way I felt when I walked in, and how I felt that evening. I felt nothing during the treatment. I did have some pain after the second treatment, so either they gave me the wrong thing the second time, or the pain I had was caused by something else, maybe the injection. I am still leaning toward the injection being the cause, because I again felt no pain at all during the second treatment.

If you are really concerned, you could email Dr. Ehrlich (I assume you've met him by now?). He has been really great about answering my questions online. His email address is retridoc@aol.com .

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Marjorie on 1/09/01 at 08:50 (036210)

John H,

You say that you saw results after 12 weeks. What does that mean exactly? You had no pain at the 12-week mark? You saw rapid improvement after 12 weeks? Are you pain-free now? Please share if you have time. I know that each of us is unique, but I'd like to know. Thanks.

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Marjorie on 1/09/01 at 08:56 (036213)

Dr. Z,

Thank you for the suggestions. I have one boot; will have to get another one for the other foot. Taping is a wonder; has helped get over this last episode.

I am fearful of having 'ruined' the potential good effects of the treatment.

I'm very interested in low energy treatments because, as I understand it, there's no anesthesia and consequently the patient feels pain on the area that is damaged, and feels nothing when the machine is directed at healthy tissue.

Thanks.

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Karin L. on 1/09/01 at 12:45 (036233)

Marjorie,
I am not part of the study that you talked about, but I did just have the procedure done 10 days ago with the OssaTron. As of right now, I can say with a smile, I am pain free for the first time in 2 yrs.! I do have, occassionally if I'm on my feet too much, an ache & minimal swelling where the fascia inserts at the heel, but as far as the typical pain, I have none. Even my first step in the morning is pain free. To say the least, this puts my whole life in a better perspective. Hope this information helps. I might add, my Dr. was just trained by his partner, & I was his first pt., also the first to have had PF release surgery, a year ago, & then the ESWT. I can't say enough good things about the OssaTron.
Karin

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Marjorie on 1/09/01 at 14:02 (036237)

Thanks for the good report, Karin.

I was painfree two weeks after my first treatment at Montefiore with the Orthowave. I was so happy! But because I was part of a study, I had to have a second treatment and that hurt me tremendously. It's been a rollercoaster ride of pain, setbacks, improvements, ever since.

I think one treatment was enough for me. Too late now. I feel awful about it.

Maybe there's still hope...

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Brad-NY on 1/12/01 at 21:17 (036515)

Marjorie:
I believe we met at Montefiore when you received your second treatment. You told me of your trip from Washington, DC. I am
a runner who has had PF for a year now. I still really don't know whether I got the treatment or the placebo. I am somewhat better, but also slip back occasionally. I can walk well, and virtually pain-free, but can't get back to running. I go through a week or two when I feel better, Then, like this week, the pain seems to come back from nowhere...
I will return in March for my final 6-month visit, and find out about whether I got placebo or treatment. Now, I'm hoping that I had the placebo, and can receive the treatment. My sense from reading this board is that people are simply not so easily cured by any technique, including the all-powerful ESWT....People are still struggling. Sorry to hear of your 'crawling' - sounds awful. Are returning to NY for the six-month follow-up...Maybe you can receive the treatment after all....

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Barbara TX on 1/17/01 at 00:08 (036730)

Marjorie - I have had two high-energy treatments, one with a nerve block and one without, and I was unable to tell the difference and was comfortable the whole time. From what I understand and have read about high energy treatments in Europe, they don't feel the need for aenesthesia and now I understand why. Good luck as you consider your options! B.

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Barbara TX on 1/17/01 at 00:15 (036731)

Karin! How wonderful! This is really exciting to be pain-free already. I hope you are enjoying life to the fullest. Good for you for working at your problem until you find an answer. THAT is the biggest cure for PF yet - just stubbornly hanging in there until you find that thing that works for you. ENJOY. B.

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

john h on 1/07/01 at 17:21 (036095)

i have had two orbasone treatements after having pf for 6 years. the first one showed results after 2 weeks. the 2nd treatment showed results after 12 weeks. never was pain worse than before treatment. the information out there is that maximum results can be expected after 12 weeks. some people i have read have had bad pain after treatment that went away after various periods.

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/07/01 at 19:36 (036101)

ESWT via ossatron report and explain on their web site that post-ESWT treatment can have its up and downs over a period of twelve weeks. So you can have some great days, bad days. This is how I explain healing plantar fascia releases to patients it is like a roller coaster some good days some bad days and then it just stops .

Over activity is a direct reflection of how many good and bad days you can have. I would go to a removal boot cast or at least an elastic band for ankle support if you are having a bad pain cycle. This is how I treat bad pain after post plantar fascia release.

ESWT is an injury to the insertion of the area of the plantar fascia that hasn't healed. It is much much less then any type of surgery but you have to view this as some type of injury that has been caused by a sound wave.

The fact that you did have pain relief shows that the area has responsed .

If the boot cast doesn't help it may be a consideration to go back and have a low energy treatment on this area . Low energy created analgia to the area of treatment.

There are some patients that do have what you are going thru.

If the area doesn't repond to the boot cast or elastic support. Let me know and I would be happy to administer low energy to the area .

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Barb-NY on 1/07/01 at 21:57 (036118)

I'm part of the Monefiore study too, but for tennis elbow.

Are you sure that you actually got THE treatment? Maybe you did receive the placebo. Your mind may have played tricks with you after your first treatment. That's what placebos are all about in double blind studies.

I have my last appointment next month and will finally learn if I got placeboed. I think (know) I did. I feel absolutly no change.

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Nancy N on 1/08/01 at 08:27 (036132)

Marjorie--

I'm part of the same study, also for my feet. I am pretty sure that, even though I do feel much better than I did in August, I got the placebo. I didn't feel any change until I started taking the Celebrex and using the Acu-Flex, and I suspect if I stopped either of those things I would go right back to where I started.

A friend of mine is also in the study and after talking to her, we are pretty sure she got the real treatment and I didn't. She reported that the treatment was very painful, even with the lidocaine block, and that she felt very bruised and used a lot of ice for about two days after each treatment. She has been feeling markedly better, but she has also experienced a few setbacks (she felt good enough to go play tennis a few weeks ago and may have re-injured herself in the process).

By contrast, I felt no difference between the way I felt when I walked in, and how I felt that evening. I felt nothing during the treatment. I did have some pain after the second treatment, so either they gave me the wrong thing the second time, or the pain I had was caused by something else, maybe the injection. I am still leaning toward the injection being the cause, because I again felt no pain at all during the second treatment.

If you are really concerned, you could email Dr. Ehrlich (I assume you've met him by now?). He has been really great about answering my questions online. His email address is retridoc@aol.com .

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Marjorie on 1/09/01 at 08:50 (036210)

John H,

You say that you saw results after 12 weeks. What does that mean exactly? You had no pain at the 12-week mark? You saw rapid improvement after 12 weeks? Are you pain-free now? Please share if you have time. I know that each of us is unique, but I'd like to know. Thanks.

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Marjorie on 1/09/01 at 08:56 (036213)

Dr. Z,

Thank you for the suggestions. I have one boot; will have to get another one for the other foot. Taping is a wonder; has helped get over this last episode.

I am fearful of having 'ruined' the potential good effects of the treatment.

I'm very interested in low energy treatments because, as I understand it, there's no anesthesia and consequently the patient feels pain on the area that is damaged, and feels nothing when the machine is directed at healthy tissue.

Thanks.

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Karin L. on 1/09/01 at 12:45 (036233)

Marjorie,
I am not part of the study that you talked about, but I did just have the procedure done 10 days ago with the OssaTron. As of right now, I can say with a smile, I am pain free for the first time in 2 yrs.! I do have, occassionally if I'm on my feet too much, an ache & minimal swelling where the fascia inserts at the heel, but as far as the typical pain, I have none. Even my first step in the morning is pain free. To say the least, this puts my whole life in a better perspective. Hope this information helps. I might add, my Dr. was just trained by his partner, & I was his first pt., also the first to have had PF release surgery, a year ago, & then the ESWT. I can't say enough good things about the OssaTron.
Karin

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Marjorie on 1/09/01 at 14:02 (036237)

Thanks for the good report, Karin.

I was painfree two weeks after my first treatment at Montefiore with the Orthowave. I was so happy! But because I was part of a study, I had to have a second treatment and that hurt me tremendously. It's been a rollercoaster ride of pain, setbacks, improvements, ever since.

I think one treatment was enough for me. Too late now. I feel awful about it.

Maybe there's still hope...

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Brad-NY on 1/12/01 at 21:17 (036515)

Marjorie:
I believe we met at Montefiore when you received your second treatment. You told me of your trip from Washington, DC. I am
a runner who has had PF for a year now. I still really don't know whether I got the treatment or the placebo. I am somewhat better, but also slip back occasionally. I can walk well, and virtually pain-free, but can't get back to running. I go through a week or two when I feel better, Then, like this week, the pain seems to come back from nowhere...
I will return in March for my final 6-month visit, and find out about whether I got placebo or treatment. Now, I'm hoping that I had the placebo, and can receive the treatment. My sense from reading this board is that people are simply not so easily cured by any technique, including the all-powerful ESWT....People are still struggling. Sorry to hear of your 'crawling' - sounds awful. Are returning to NY for the six-month follow-up...Maybe you can receive the treatment after all....

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Barbara TX on 1/17/01 at 00:08 (036730)

Marjorie - I have had two high-energy treatments, one with a nerve block and one without, and I was unable to tell the difference and was comfortable the whole time. From what I understand and have read about high energy treatments in Europe, they don't feel the need for aenesthesia and now I understand why. Good luck as you consider your options! B.

Re: For all who've been treated with high-energy ESWT machine

Barbara TX on 1/17/01 at 00:15 (036731)

Karin! How wonderful! This is really exciting to be pain-free already. I hope you are enjoying life to the fullest. Good for you for working at your problem until you find an answer. THAT is the biggest cure for PF yet - just stubbornly hanging in there until you find that thing that works for you. ENJOY. B.