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Heel pain and nerve damage needs ossatron local info

Posted by Winston K on 1/19/01 at 01:45 (036831)

Have had heel pain pf, nerve pain, torn fascia after cort injection, tried podiatrist, orthopedists, orthotics, ice stretching hard cast walking cast twice, night splints both feet in pain. Understand a Dr. Calloway of Raleigh Orthopedist (North Carolina) is getting one of those new machines to treat heal pain. Does anyone know exactly what has been tested in Canada? Is it approved by the FDA in US? Is it covered under insurance? Is the procedure painful? I have heard some say it is painless other say they would never do it again... too painful. Anything would be better than this.

Re: Heel pain and nerve damage needs ossatron local info

john h on 1/19/01 at 09:26 (036851)

winston go the the ESWT message board and go through the messages. It is basically pain free. Insurance generally does not pay for it. Very few downsides to the procedure.

Re: Heel pain and nerve damage needs ossatron local info

Karin L. on 1/21/01 at 12:04 (037000)

John,
I'm confused...on another message, you stated that you had the OssaTron with Dr. Z. I was under the impression that Dr. Z uses the Orbasone...these are 2 different machines. As for the pain, well, from what I have read, the Orbasone is fairly pain free. At least Dr. Z does the procedure without any anesthetic. The OssaTron however, speaking from experience, is quite painful. I was under heavy sedation & apparently still felt it & my Dr. had to give me more drugs so that he could continue the procedure. As for insurance paying for it, it depends on who your insurance co. is. I have United Health Choice Plus & have not received a bill of any kind from either them or the surgery center. Because the OssaTron is FDA approved, I believe this is why my insurance took care of the whole thing. The Orbasone is not FDA approved & is therefore considered to be 'theraputic massage'. Just wanted to clarify the above.
Karin

Re: Heel pain and nerve damage needs ossatron local info

Dr. Kosova on 1/22/01 at 00:43 (037052)

Winston ,
The OSSATRON is the only FDA approved eswt for plantar facsitis in the United States. Precertifiaction is being given by most insurance companies.That of course is not a gaureentee (sp?) to payment but Healtronics ALSO does a precert. FDA studies were with a local block with local sedation. This will probably change but is the norm now. If you put your finger into a wall socket that shock would hurt. But if you numbed up your finger then it would't. Please dont try this!!!

Go the the healtronics.com link for more info. and read the results and post here. This is were I send my patients for more information.

Good Luck.

Dr. Kosova

Re: Heel pain and nerve damage needs ossatron local info

Barbara TX on 1/22/01 at 13:07 (037078)

Dr. Kosova - I think that we should be very clear here, because people may get the wrong idea about your 'finger in the light socket' example. I don't know what you mean by it. An anesthetic serves no thereputic effect - it sonly effect is to eliminate pain (am I right about this)- maybe lidocaine opens up the blood vessels, but that's about it. Anyway, Dr. Z is claiming that the low-energy waves themselves produce an anesthetic effect, making a local nerve block superfluous. I had it both ways and I find this to be experientially true. I understand that the FDA may require it for the Ossatron, but it does not for the Orbasone, and people should know that they have choice. It is in no way the same as sticking your finger in a light socket. The thinking behind going without a block is to maintain the integrity of the body to a greater degree - not do something reckless. If the some low-energy pulses can do the trick, why insist on chemicals... especially IV sedation?

I made my decision not to have a block based on the principle that the least amount of intervention is the best, and I think that's a sound principle for doctors as well. I also believe that people can choose to be 'out cold' if they so desire! The point is to leave those options open. I am sure that you are familiar with these principles, especially after dealing with childbirth decisions.

So, I guess all we need now is an Ossatron patient willing to try the standard protocols (maybe altered with a little low-energy numbing at the very beginning) and report to heelspurs.com with the results! All the best - I enjoy your posts very much! B.

Re: Heel pain and nerve damage needs ossatron local info

David Lowy on 1/23/01 at 12:07 (037152)

There are two ESWT devices approved by Health Canada: the Siemens
Sonocur lower energy machine and the HMT/Healthtronics higher energy
Ossatron. The Sonocur does not require any anesthesia. The Ossatron usually requires at least local/regional anesthesia and/or sedation. The Sonocur usually requires three treatments, the Ossatron one or two ( ave 1.5). Charges vary, but the Ossatron treatment is much more expensive in Canada.
Government insurance does not cover these treatments in Canada and most
patients pay for the procedure themselves. Some extended insurance carriers will occasionaly cover the procedure, and some specific groups such as workmens's compensation will pay for some treatments on selected patients with disorders in selected sites in some provinces. Another ESWT device, the Dornier Epos, is also used for investigational use at a couple of sites in Canada.
In the United States, the only approved device is the Ossatron. I do
not know where these machines are located. I understand that the Siemens
Sonocur and Dornier Epos are under FDA investigation and both companies
hope for approval later this year. I have also heard that one ot two other
companies either plan or have recently begun clinical investigations. I do not know if any insurance companies presently pay for ESWT in the US, but I suspect that it is so new that most US insurance companies will not yet cover it.
In Canada, we at Sonorex treat many patients with plantar
fasciitis/heelspur with the Siemens Sonocur. Our results have been good.
Some patients report some discomfort with the treatment, but most tolerate
this easily. We have no experience with the high energy Ossatron in regards to treatment or post treatment pain.
I hope this answers some of your questions
Sincerely,
David Lowy
VP, Canada Sonorex Therapy Centers
Toll Free 1 877 766-6287 http://www.sonorex.com

Re: Heel pain and nerve damage needs ossatron local info

john h on 1/19/01 at 09:26 (036851)

winston go the the ESWT message board and go through the messages. It is basically pain free. Insurance generally does not pay for it. Very few downsides to the procedure.

Re: Heel pain and nerve damage needs ossatron local info

Karin L. on 1/21/01 at 12:04 (037000)

John,
I'm confused...on another message, you stated that you had the OssaTron with Dr. Z. I was under the impression that Dr. Z uses the Orbasone...these are 2 different machines. As for the pain, well, from what I have read, the Orbasone is fairly pain free. At least Dr. Z does the procedure without any anesthetic. The OssaTron however, speaking from experience, is quite painful. I was under heavy sedation & apparently still felt it & my Dr. had to give me more drugs so that he could continue the procedure. As for insurance paying for it, it depends on who your insurance co. is. I have United Health Choice Plus & have not received a bill of any kind from either them or the surgery center. Because the OssaTron is FDA approved, I believe this is why my insurance took care of the whole thing. The Orbasone is not FDA approved & is therefore considered to be 'theraputic massage'. Just wanted to clarify the above.
Karin

Re: Heel pain and nerve damage needs ossatron local info

Dr. Kosova on 1/22/01 at 00:43 (037052)

Winston ,
The OSSATRON is the only FDA approved eswt for plantar facsitis in the United States. Precertifiaction is being given by most insurance companies.That of course is not a gaureentee (sp?) to payment but Healtronics ALSO does a precert. FDA studies were with a local block with local sedation. This will probably change but is the norm now. If you put your finger into a wall socket that shock would hurt. But if you numbed up your finger then it would't. Please dont try this!!!

Go the the healtronics.com link for more info. and read the results and post here. This is were I send my patients for more information.

Good Luck.

Dr. Kosova

Re: Heel pain and nerve damage needs ossatron local info

Barbara TX on 1/22/01 at 13:07 (037078)

Dr. Kosova - I think that we should be very clear here, because people may get the wrong idea about your 'finger in the light socket' example. I don't know what you mean by it. An anesthetic serves no thereputic effect - it sonly effect is to eliminate pain (am I right about this)- maybe lidocaine opens up the blood vessels, but that's about it. Anyway, Dr. Z is claiming that the low-energy waves themselves produce an anesthetic effect, making a local nerve block superfluous. I had it both ways and I find this to be experientially true. I understand that the FDA may require it for the Ossatron, but it does not for the Orbasone, and people should know that they have choice. It is in no way the same as sticking your finger in a light socket. The thinking behind going without a block is to maintain the integrity of the body to a greater degree - not do something reckless. If the some low-energy pulses can do the trick, why insist on chemicals... especially IV sedation?

I made my decision not to have a block based on the principle that the least amount of intervention is the best, and I think that's a sound principle for doctors as well. I also believe that people can choose to be 'out cold' if they so desire! The point is to leave those options open. I am sure that you are familiar with these principles, especially after dealing with childbirth decisions.

So, I guess all we need now is an Ossatron patient willing to try the standard protocols (maybe altered with a little low-energy numbing at the very beginning) and report to heelspurs.com with the results! All the best - I enjoy your posts very much! B.

Re: Heel pain and nerve damage needs ossatron local info

David Lowy on 1/23/01 at 12:07 (037152)

There are two ESWT devices approved by Health Canada: the Siemens
Sonocur lower energy machine and the HMT/Healthtronics higher energy
Ossatron. The Sonocur does not require any anesthesia. The Ossatron usually requires at least local/regional anesthesia and/or sedation. The Sonocur usually requires three treatments, the Ossatron one or two ( ave 1.5). Charges vary, but the Ossatron treatment is much more expensive in Canada.
Government insurance does not cover these treatments in Canada and most
patients pay for the procedure themselves. Some extended insurance carriers will occasionaly cover the procedure, and some specific groups such as workmens's compensation will pay for some treatments on selected patients with disorders in selected sites in some provinces. Another ESWT device, the Dornier Epos, is also used for investigational use at a couple of sites in Canada.
In the United States, the only approved device is the Ossatron. I do
not know where these machines are located. I understand that the Siemens
Sonocur and Dornier Epos are under FDA investigation and both companies
hope for approval later this year. I have also heard that one ot two other
companies either plan or have recently begun clinical investigations. I do not know if any insurance companies presently pay for ESWT in the US, but I suspect that it is so new that most US insurance companies will not yet cover it.
In Canada, we at Sonorex treat many patients with plantar
fasciitis/heelspur with the Siemens Sonocur. Our results have been good.
Some patients report some discomfort with the treatment, but most tolerate
this easily. We have no experience with the high energy Ossatron in regards to treatment or post treatment pain.
I hope this answers some of your questions
Sincerely,
David Lowy
VP, Canada Sonorex Therapy Centers
Toll Free 1 877 766-6287 http://www.sonorex.com