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So Sorry Scott and everyone eles........

Posted by Laurie R on 1/26/01 at 23:43 (037484)

Hi Scott,
I am so sorry that I posted about the tenogram on the social board. You told me before to usr the treatment board for treatment. I was not even thinking when I posted it .Again I am sorry .Next time I will think before I post.....Laurie R

Re: So Sorry Scott and everyone eles........

wendyn on 1/26/01 at 23:52 (037485)

Crap Laurie - I just posted a long response to you about your tenogram (I've been waiting up to hear from you!). I guess I'm tired - pushed the wrong button and sent my post to never never land. I will try again tomorrow.

I am glad it's done and that you did it!!!

I am anxious to hear what your pod says Monday.

Re: So Sorry Scott and everyone eles........

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/27/01 at 07:55 (037506)

I post everywhere anywhere so I will take your 50 strokes with the whip for you. Great to hear that the test is over. Good news is ahead according to your fortune cookie. Then again the next cookie just told me that an Earth Quake is on its way. Just kidding. Let's hope that a repair of the tendon can resolve the pain.!!!!

Re: So Sorry Scott and everyone eles........

Pauline on 1/27/01 at 09:32 (037516)

Laurie,
If everyone did everything right thing all the time, what a dull world we would have. Let those of us who haven't made a mistake throw the first stone. No what---I don't think anyone thought twice about your posting in the wrong spot they were more concerned about how you made out during your test. Be well and for penance --- eat your favorite ice cream. It always takes away the guilt unless your dieting.

Re: message board design

Scott R on 1/27/01 at 14:22 (037533)

Kim,
The seperation of the message boards is not only to keep the social stuff out of the searchable archives. It's also to allow links to portions of the message board from other areas of the website. The categories: Surgery, Ask a Doctor, and ESWT get links from other areas of the website. These seperate links are crucial. Tarsal Tunnel gets a link from a different website and thereby provides the only forum on the internet for this condition. ESWT is probably getting or going to get links from other websites and provides the only relatively useful forum on the internet for this treatment. Shoes / Insert was created partially so that Richard could answer questions. Ask a doctor needs to be seperate so that patients are less likely to flood someone with answers before the doctors.

All the categories may be searchable seperate from the rest in the future to help narrow the searches.

But I am still interested in hearing any complaints about the message board and how it can be improved.

Re: Posting

Pauline on 1/27/01 at 22:39 (037554)

Patience my dear friends. We all had to start somewhere. We forget all too soon that we too were once new to this board. If we need to be so
critical about how someone post, maybe we need to specify classes that need to be taken and credentials required before anyone can post.

I personally think we all have pick our favorite authors and just like any good book never want or care to read the preface. I think we need to continue being tolerant of others and help the weakest among us so they can begin to enjoy the riches that exist on this board.

Re: I'd like to make a Motion...

Julie on 1/28/01 at 03:25 (037560)

I aggree that there is a problem, and that it's mainly a problem for new people.Like Wendy, I've observed that new people arrive, ask a question, usually on the doctor board, get an answer or two, and disappear; and that this is a relatively new development. I don't know if it has to do with the proliferation of categories to post on, but it has certainly happened since then.

I felt, and said at the time, that there were possibly too many categories, and I still think so. It takes a lot of familiarity with the site to manage all the different categories, and it's possible that new people find it a bit overwhelming. It also takes a lot of time. Addictees like myself probably plough through all the 'View all messages since last visit' but when I wake up here in London inn the morning there are always at least a hundred messages to read while the rest of you have been active during my 'night'. I don't have an easy answer, but I do think it needs to be thought about.

A good reason for having separate doctor and orthotics boards, apart from the ones you give, Scott, is that it saves the doctors and Richard having to plough through ALL the messages, which they would have to do if there were only two boards, social and otherwise.

What I do think could and should be done is to make the link on the home page to the PF Book much more prominent. If everyone new to the site were positively encouraged to read at least the short version before posting, it would save everyone, not just the doctors, a lot of time. My own experience, in my first enthusiastic couple of months here, was to write lengthy replies to the initial 'I think I may have PF, what should I do' questions. These inevitably repeated what I had learned from the PF Book. Lately I've not been doing this: I haven't the time, and I know the answers are in the book.

I see this site as, firstly, an information resource, of which the PF Book is the most important bit though of course the boards also have a vital function, and secondly as a support group. Both are equally valuable, but I don't think it's unreasonable to hope/expect that people will inform themselves a bit before posting queries they could find the answers to themselves with very little trouble, and I think they should be encouraged to. As things stand, the PF Book is given no more prominence on the Home Page grid than any thing else, and it's possible people don't even notice it. What about - in big type - something like:

Welcome to heelspurs.com, the internet resource for plantar fasciitis, heel spurs, and related foot problems. First read The PF Book for information about these. You are also welcome to post your queries and share your experience on the message boards.

What do people think?

Re: I'd like to make a Motion...

Scott R on 1/28/01 at 07:03 (037563)

Julie,
Thanks for the advice about making the book more prominant on the home page. I have a lot of confounding factors demanding attention on the home page. My philosophy has been 'if they are not interested enough in the subject to at least scan the links at the top of every page and stumble across the book, then they probably arent't interested enough to read the lengthy book.

Re: So Sorry Scott and everyone eles........

Julie on 1/28/01 at 07:03 (037564)

Laurie, I meant to say yesterday that if you inadvertently post a message on the 'wrong' board and want to make amends, you can copy it and paste it into a file on the 'right' board. The duplication doesn't matter. But I don't think you should worry about it! Most of us read everything anyway.

Julie

Re: I'd like to make a Motion...

Julie on 1/28/01 at 07:14 (037567)

Scott, thanks for your reply. I understand what you're saying, but I think your philosophy is a little misguided. Or perhaps you're just reluctant to 'push' your own book. But people don't always know what they're interested in, and new people may not even twig that 'PF' refers to their problem. Why leave it to them to 'stumble' across the book when it would be so easy to clearly point them in its direction? It needs an introduction, just as every 'real' book needs a blurb on its cover. If space is a problem, the book deserves more space than almost anything else on the home page.

I've said many times that the PF Book has been the crucial factor in my determining what was wrong and learning how to deal with it, and thus in my pretty rapid and now almost complete recovery. But I'm an avid reader and researcher as well as a writer - not everyone is. I see the word 'Book' and I go for it - not everyone would.

Don't be modest about your book - give the new people a fighting chance of finding it and reading it.

If I haven't convinced you, tell me and I'll keep trying.

Julie

Re: I'd like to make a Motion...

Pauline on 1/28/01 at 11:08 (037572)

Julie,
I like your ideas but given a choice which do you think new people would do first?
A. Read a rather long text (the pf book)
B. Post their own immediate concern on the 'Ask the Dr. board'?

New people who begin to post on this site are usually desperate to get rid of their pain and want a quick cure. They don't know about the rest of us, our struggles and the months we have had P.F. They don't even care--we were all that way at one time. We were all once the selfish, post my question, get the cure newbies. Nothing has changed except through our own persistence and the kindness of others posting here, we came to understand that PF has no quick and easy cure.

Those people who took the time to educate us through their postings taught us a great deal. They answered our questions and lead us to the PF book, the surveys, and treatments. It didn't happen overnight, but as our pain continued and we continued to read what other were posting, our knowledge grew and a calmness began to appear. We set aside our desperate attitude and began to find our own path through the maze of postings listed on this site. We seized quickly on the postings that sounded similar to our own concerns and saved the others for later reading. Through our daily visits we quickly began to feel part of the big PF family. We began to laugh, to listen, to care, to cry, and to share with one another for the good of all. Somewhere during our months of posting each of us changed from the once self-centered individuals we used to be to the caring individuals most of us have become. We should never forget our early beginnings. The newbies need all of us, to take the same time someone else took with us, to
bring them along.

To Whom It May Concern:
AS for posting on the wrong board, Laurie has nothing to apologize for. There was no melicious act here. Mistakes happen and if you need ammends by having her cut and paste on the correct board you need to take time and examine what is important in your own life. Will it really make any of us better off knowing Laurie took the time to cut and paste. What will we actually gain by this penance? Maybe she should kneel on glass and beat her breast as well yelling out Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa. This should be a wake up call. People are out there dealing daily with real life issues the cold, starvation, killings, Cancer, Hiv and we are sitting inside judging an individual by WHERE she posted. Pardon me, but I'd rather see the time we spend judging others feeding the poor, comforting the sick and asking for our own forgiveness. Am I angry, you bet. Time is a gift it shouldn't be wasted on such trivial matters. Laurie you've done nothing on this board that needs any type of forgiveness from me or anyone. To error is human, sense when did the rest of us become Surpreme Beings.

Re: So Sorry Scott and everyone eles........

Nancy N on 1/28/01 at 12:05 (037576)

Judy--

You're not the only one who has no trouble as it is. I don't think I ever did, actually. I like the current setup because it lets you find the best place to get information on your topic of choice. I don't think I ever would have posted an ESWT question without an individual ESWT board.

I am one of those who doesn't use the 'View all since last visit' feature, since I read both at home and (I confess!) at work. I would be going through stuff I've already seen anyway. So I do use the individual boards. I don't necessarily read them all, but there are four or five that I read regularly. I think the current format makes it easier for me to keep track of what I've read and what I haven't--much easier than it would be if all the messages were together in once place (keeping them separate makes the number of new messages much less intimidating, too). But I don't know how many people use the 'View all' feature as opposed to those of us who don't, so I don't know how many people each option would affect.

Scott, for some reason, I don't have the check box to mark this message so that it's not archived. Not sure why. I certainly don't think it needs to be archived.

Re: I'd like to make a Motion...

Julie on 1/28/01 at 13:09 (037580)

Hi Pauline

Hang on, I was simply looking for ways to make it easier for new people to get the information they need. The short version of the PF Book is not difficult or time-consuming to read, and my point was that if it were more prominently advertised on the home page, new people would be more likely to find it and read it, which would be - I think - the best possible start for them. I suspect Scott is being unnecessarily modest in not calling attention to his terrific book.

I certainly wasn't suggesting that we shouldn't be responsive to new people's questions - of course we should, and we are - just that the PF Book, even its short version, gives not only basic information, but a better idea of what questions to ask, and a better handle on the whole bag.

I do think, Judy and Nancy, that it probably is because we're old hands that we have no trouble navigating the various board. I've tried to put myself in the shoes of a newcomer, and I think I might find it a bit daunting at first. I didn't when I started, but there were fewer categories then, and I think it was easier to work with then. This is only my opinion. I don't feel strongly about it, but I do wonder whether it's the cause of more people dropping in and dropping out very quickly. And I wonder whether they really have 'gotten what they need' with one query and answer; I agree with Pauline that it takes time to negotiate the whole learning curve. My only concern is making this whole excellent site even more welcoming and user-friendly than it is.

Re: posting on the 'wrong' board. Nobody was criticizing or judging Laurie, she was taking herself to task, and everybody who responded told her there was no need to. Cutting and pasting is a practical way of ensuring that your post gets to the 'right' category, in case you yourself are worried that you've misplaced it.

Re: my own two cents

Lori E. on 1/28/01 at 18:12 (037602)

I guess I am also one of those who doesn't use the view all function. I follow the posts on several boards every day, so there is not that much to miss. I also appricate the change in color of the post title when I have read it.
I agree to make Scott's PF book more eye catching would be helpful for newbies, and they can read what ever version they have time for when they access the book. I learned alot from the book but I admit that I was one of those who stumbled upon it and it would have been helpful to have been pointed in that direction from the start.
As for posting on the wrong board, I think this is just something that happens from time to time, and as long as we are mindful of the categories, no problem. I don't mind seeing a misplaced post, because it rarely happens now.
One thing I don't understand is when someone with an unrealated non-foot problem posts a question on the ask the doctors board. (I can understand if they are interested in ESWT for their problem.) I don't know if they find it thru a seach engine or what, but it seems like it is a waste of the docs' valuable time to answer these questions that aren't in their specialty. Maybe they don't mind, it just seems odd to me to see wrist and shoulder problems popping up on this web site.

Re: More might read Scott's book if called "article" instead

Beverly on 1/28/01 at 19:47 (037611)

I agree that jazzing up the layout of Scott's very well written book could encourage new readers. I'd like to suggest Scott that you call it an 'article' rather than a book, because most people will read what feels like a magazine article but many will be intimidated by a book because a book implies that it's long. I think the length is such that it could be considered a long article or a short book.
Beverly

Re: So Sorry Scott and everyone eles........

wendyn on 1/26/01 at 23:52 (037485)

Crap Laurie - I just posted a long response to you about your tenogram (I've been waiting up to hear from you!). I guess I'm tired - pushed the wrong button and sent my post to never never land. I will try again tomorrow.

I am glad it's done and that you did it!!!

I am anxious to hear what your pod says Monday.

Re: So Sorry Scott and everyone eles........

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/27/01 at 07:55 (037506)

I post everywhere anywhere so I will take your 50 strokes with the whip for you. Great to hear that the test is over. Good news is ahead according to your fortune cookie. Then again the next cookie just told me that an Earth Quake is on its way. Just kidding. Let's hope that a repair of the tendon can resolve the pain.!!!!

Re: So Sorry Scott and everyone eles........

Pauline on 1/27/01 at 09:32 (037516)

Laurie,
If everyone did everything right thing all the time, what a dull world we would have. Let those of us who haven't made a mistake throw the first stone. No what---I don't think anyone thought twice about your posting in the wrong spot they were more concerned about how you made out during your test. Be well and for penance --- eat your favorite ice cream. It always takes away the guilt unless your dieting.

Re: message board design

Scott R on 1/27/01 at 14:22 (037533)

Kim,
The seperation of the message boards is not only to keep the social stuff out of the searchable archives. It's also to allow links to portions of the message board from other areas of the website. The categories: Surgery, Ask a Doctor, and ESWT get links from other areas of the website. These seperate links are crucial. Tarsal Tunnel gets a link from a different website and thereby provides the only forum on the internet for this condition. ESWT is probably getting or going to get links from other websites and provides the only relatively useful forum on the internet for this treatment. Shoes / Insert was created partially so that Richard could answer questions. Ask a doctor needs to be seperate so that patients are less likely to flood someone with answers before the doctors.

All the categories may be searchable seperate from the rest in the future to help narrow the searches.

But I am still interested in hearing any complaints about the message board and how it can be improved.

Re: Posting

Pauline on 1/27/01 at 22:39 (037554)

Patience my dear friends. We all had to start somewhere. We forget all too soon that we too were once new to this board. If we need to be so
critical about how someone post, maybe we need to specify classes that need to be taken and credentials required before anyone can post.

I personally think we all have pick our favorite authors and just like any good book never want or care to read the preface. I think we need to continue being tolerant of others and help the weakest among us so they can begin to enjoy the riches that exist on this board.

Re: I'd like to make a Motion...

Julie on 1/28/01 at 03:25 (037560)

I aggree that there is a problem, and that it's mainly a problem for new people.Like Wendy, I've observed that new people arrive, ask a question, usually on the doctor board, get an answer or two, and disappear; and that this is a relatively new development. I don't know if it has to do with the proliferation of categories to post on, but it has certainly happened since then.

I felt, and said at the time, that there were possibly too many categories, and I still think so. It takes a lot of familiarity with the site to manage all the different categories, and it's possible that new people find it a bit overwhelming. It also takes a lot of time. Addictees like myself probably plough through all the 'View all messages since last visit' but when I wake up here in London inn the morning there are always at least a hundred messages to read while the rest of you have been active during my 'night'. I don't have an easy answer, but I do think it needs to be thought about.

A good reason for having separate doctor and orthotics boards, apart from the ones you give, Scott, is that it saves the doctors and Richard having to plough through ALL the messages, which they would have to do if there were only two boards, social and otherwise.

What I do think could and should be done is to make the link on the home page to the PF Book much more prominent. If everyone new to the site were positively encouraged to read at least the short version before posting, it would save everyone, not just the doctors, a lot of time. My own experience, in my first enthusiastic couple of months here, was to write lengthy replies to the initial 'I think I may have PF, what should I do' questions. These inevitably repeated what I had learned from the PF Book. Lately I've not been doing this: I haven't the time, and I know the answers are in the book.

I see this site as, firstly, an information resource, of which the PF Book is the most important bit though of course the boards also have a vital function, and secondly as a support group. Both are equally valuable, but I don't think it's unreasonable to hope/expect that people will inform themselves a bit before posting queries they could find the answers to themselves with very little trouble, and I think they should be encouraged to. As things stand, the PF Book is given no more prominence on the Home Page grid than any thing else, and it's possible people don't even notice it. What about - in big type - something like:

Welcome to heelspurs.com, the internet resource for plantar fasciitis, heel spurs, and related foot problems. First read The PF Book for information about these. You are also welcome to post your queries and share your experience on the message boards.

What do people think?

Re: I'd like to make a Motion...

Scott R on 1/28/01 at 07:03 (037563)

Julie,
Thanks for the advice about making the book more prominant on the home page. I have a lot of confounding factors demanding attention on the home page. My philosophy has been 'if they are not interested enough in the subject to at least scan the links at the top of every page and stumble across the book, then they probably arent't interested enough to read the lengthy book.

Re: So Sorry Scott and everyone eles........

Julie on 1/28/01 at 07:03 (037564)

Laurie, I meant to say yesterday that if you inadvertently post a message on the 'wrong' board and want to make amends, you can copy it and paste it into a file on the 'right' board. The duplication doesn't matter. But I don't think you should worry about it! Most of us read everything anyway.

Julie

Re: I'd like to make a Motion...

Julie on 1/28/01 at 07:14 (037567)

Scott, thanks for your reply. I understand what you're saying, but I think your philosophy is a little misguided. Or perhaps you're just reluctant to 'push' your own book. But people don't always know what they're interested in, and new people may not even twig that 'PF' refers to their problem. Why leave it to them to 'stumble' across the book when it would be so easy to clearly point them in its direction? It needs an introduction, just as every 'real' book needs a blurb on its cover. If space is a problem, the book deserves more space than almost anything else on the home page.

I've said many times that the PF Book has been the crucial factor in my determining what was wrong and learning how to deal with it, and thus in my pretty rapid and now almost complete recovery. But I'm an avid reader and researcher as well as a writer - not everyone is. I see the word 'Book' and I go for it - not everyone would.

Don't be modest about your book - give the new people a fighting chance of finding it and reading it.

If I haven't convinced you, tell me and I'll keep trying.

Julie

Re: I'd like to make a Motion...

Pauline on 1/28/01 at 11:08 (037572)

Julie,
I like your ideas but given a choice which do you think new people would do first?
A. Read a rather long text (the pf book)
B. Post their own immediate concern on the 'Ask the Dr. board'?

New people who begin to post on this site are usually desperate to get rid of their pain and want a quick cure. They don't know about the rest of us, our struggles and the months we have had P.F. They don't even care--we were all that way at one time. We were all once the selfish, post my question, get the cure newbies. Nothing has changed except through our own persistence and the kindness of others posting here, we came to understand that PF has no quick and easy cure.

Those people who took the time to educate us through their postings taught us a great deal. They answered our questions and lead us to the PF book, the surveys, and treatments. It didn't happen overnight, but as our pain continued and we continued to read what other were posting, our knowledge grew and a calmness began to appear. We set aside our desperate attitude and began to find our own path through the maze of postings listed on this site. We seized quickly on the postings that sounded similar to our own concerns and saved the others for later reading. Through our daily visits we quickly began to feel part of the big PF family. We began to laugh, to listen, to care, to cry, and to share with one another for the good of all. Somewhere during our months of posting each of us changed from the once self-centered individuals we used to be to the caring individuals most of us have become. We should never forget our early beginnings. The newbies need all of us, to take the same time someone else took with us, to
bring them along.

To Whom It May Concern:
AS for posting on the wrong board, Laurie has nothing to apologize for. There was no melicious act here. Mistakes happen and if you need ammends by having her cut and paste on the correct board you need to take time and examine what is important in your own life. Will it really make any of us better off knowing Laurie took the time to cut and paste. What will we actually gain by this penance? Maybe she should kneel on glass and beat her breast as well yelling out Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa. This should be a wake up call. People are out there dealing daily with real life issues the cold, starvation, killings, Cancer, Hiv and we are sitting inside judging an individual by WHERE she posted. Pardon me, but I'd rather see the time we spend judging others feeding the poor, comforting the sick and asking for our own forgiveness. Am I angry, you bet. Time is a gift it shouldn't be wasted on such trivial matters. Laurie you've done nothing on this board that needs any type of forgiveness from me or anyone. To error is human, sense when did the rest of us become Surpreme Beings.

Re: So Sorry Scott and everyone eles........

Nancy N on 1/28/01 at 12:05 (037576)

Judy--

You're not the only one who has no trouble as it is. I don't think I ever did, actually. I like the current setup because it lets you find the best place to get information on your topic of choice. I don't think I ever would have posted an ESWT question without an individual ESWT board.

I am one of those who doesn't use the 'View all since last visit' feature, since I read both at home and (I confess!) at work. I would be going through stuff I've already seen anyway. So I do use the individual boards. I don't necessarily read them all, but there are four or five that I read regularly. I think the current format makes it easier for me to keep track of what I've read and what I haven't--much easier than it would be if all the messages were together in once place (keeping them separate makes the number of new messages much less intimidating, too). But I don't know how many people use the 'View all' feature as opposed to those of us who don't, so I don't know how many people each option would affect.

Scott, for some reason, I don't have the check box to mark this message so that it's not archived. Not sure why. I certainly don't think it needs to be archived.

Re: I'd like to make a Motion...

Julie on 1/28/01 at 13:09 (037580)

Hi Pauline

Hang on, I was simply looking for ways to make it easier for new people to get the information they need. The short version of the PF Book is not difficult or time-consuming to read, and my point was that if it were more prominently advertised on the home page, new people would be more likely to find it and read it, which would be - I think - the best possible start for them. I suspect Scott is being unnecessarily modest in not calling attention to his terrific book.

I certainly wasn't suggesting that we shouldn't be responsive to new people's questions - of course we should, and we are - just that the PF Book, even its short version, gives not only basic information, but a better idea of what questions to ask, and a better handle on the whole bag.

I do think, Judy and Nancy, that it probably is because we're old hands that we have no trouble navigating the various board. I've tried to put myself in the shoes of a newcomer, and I think I might find it a bit daunting at first. I didn't when I started, but there were fewer categories then, and I think it was easier to work with then. This is only my opinion. I don't feel strongly about it, but I do wonder whether it's the cause of more people dropping in and dropping out very quickly. And I wonder whether they really have 'gotten what they need' with one query and answer; I agree with Pauline that it takes time to negotiate the whole learning curve. My only concern is making this whole excellent site even more welcoming and user-friendly than it is.

Re: posting on the 'wrong' board. Nobody was criticizing or judging Laurie, she was taking herself to task, and everybody who responded told her there was no need to. Cutting and pasting is a practical way of ensuring that your post gets to the 'right' category, in case you yourself are worried that you've misplaced it.

Re: my own two cents

Lori E. on 1/28/01 at 18:12 (037602)

I guess I am also one of those who doesn't use the view all function. I follow the posts on several boards every day, so there is not that much to miss. I also appricate the change in color of the post title when I have read it.
I agree to make Scott's PF book more eye catching would be helpful for newbies, and they can read what ever version they have time for when they access the book. I learned alot from the book but I admit that I was one of those who stumbled upon it and it would have been helpful to have been pointed in that direction from the start.
As for posting on the wrong board, I think this is just something that happens from time to time, and as long as we are mindful of the categories, no problem. I don't mind seeing a misplaced post, because it rarely happens now.
One thing I don't understand is when someone with an unrealated non-foot problem posts a question on the ask the doctors board. (I can understand if they are interested in ESWT for their problem.) I don't know if they find it thru a seach engine or what, but it seems like it is a waste of the docs' valuable time to answer these questions that aren't in their specialty. Maybe they don't mind, it just seems odd to me to see wrist and shoulder problems popping up on this web site.

Re: More might read Scott's book if called "article" instead

Beverly on 1/28/01 at 19:47 (037611)

I agree that jazzing up the layout of Scott's very well written book could encourage new readers. I'd like to suggest Scott that you call it an 'article' rather than a book, because most people will read what feels like a magazine article but many will be intimidated by a book because a book implies that it's long. I think the length is such that it could be considered a long article or a short book.
Beverly