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ESWT energy comparisons

Posted by Gregg W. on 1/29/01 at 08:40 (037637)

I've read the different postings by Dr. Weil and Dr. Z. In Dr. Weil's study he notes a higher satisfaction rate at Kv>20. Dr. Z has a post that talks about using 0.3 joules. mm2 at first and working up to 0.6 joules. mm2. I believe that you both use the same type of machine (Orbasone) so how do these energy levels compare? Does 1 Kv = 0.1 joules. mm2? Also, what's the f2 site? Thanks for any info.

Re: ESWT energy comparisons

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/29/01 at 11:28 (037645)

I can only speak from my experience and trainng.. We were taught to use 16kv which is 0,6 mj/mm2 at the focal point. Yes I do increase the kv at times and with different situations. I want to make sure that there is good
absorption of the shockwave at the f2 treatment site and this is done with manuel palpation at the time of treatment.

I don't of any long term study that proves that high is better. For example that 1.2 mj/mm2 is better 0.6mj/mm2 at the f2 site.

So until the companies are willing to let the users know exactly all of the parameter that determine effective treatment at the f2. It is also possible that this information doesn't exist as of yet.
I call only relate what the most recent textbooks and articles from European use when they try to report their findings. They use mj/mm2.

Also note that it was within Dr. Weil small group of patients that he noted greater satisfaction. This wasn't a multiple site or long group of patients. It is a very good start in the long journey to find which energy treatment is better or more important more effective.

I am still convinced that the doctor his pre-evaluation, post-treatment program as going to play a very important role in the sucess of ESWT. The role of mj/mm2 is something that will play a factor how much only large multi-site treatment will determine the influence.

There are other factors but at this time I don't know what other parameters to compare.

by the way

Re: ESWT energy comparisons

Graham Wilson on 1/29/01 at 20:26 (037697)

I am one of Dr Weils patients and he used 24kv on me and did 1700 impacts(?). Three weeks after treatment I was able to run pain free - first time in 16 months. I am still pain free ater 8 weeks and have engaged in an extensive stretching program to supplement the procedure. I realize that the population is still small - but it seems to be working for me - (thus far!) Graham

Re: ESWT energy comparisons

Dr. Zuckerman on 1/29/01 at 11:28 (037645)

I can only speak from my experience and trainng.. We were taught to use 16kv which is 0,6 mj/mm2 at the focal point. Yes I do increase the kv at times and with different situations. I want to make sure that there is good
absorption of the shockwave at the f2 treatment site and this is done with manuel palpation at the time of treatment.

I don't of any long term study that proves that high is better. For example that 1.2 mj/mm2 is better 0.6mj/mm2 at the f2 site.

So until the companies are willing to let the users know exactly all of the parameter that determine effective treatment at the f2. It is also possible that this information doesn't exist as of yet.
I call only relate what the most recent textbooks and articles from European use when they try to report their findings. They use mj/mm2.

Also note that it was within Dr. Weil small group of patients that he noted greater satisfaction. This wasn't a multiple site or long group of patients. It is a very good start in the long journey to find which energy treatment is better or more important more effective.

I am still convinced that the doctor his pre-evaluation, post-treatment program as going to play a very important role in the sucess of ESWT. The role of mj/mm2 is something that will play a factor how much only large multi-site treatment will determine the influence.

There are other factors but at this time I don't know what other parameters to compare.

by the way

Re: ESWT energy comparisons

Graham Wilson on 1/29/01 at 20:26 (037697)

I am one of Dr Weils patients and he used 24kv on me and did 1700 impacts(?). Three weeks after treatment I was able to run pain free - first time in 16 months. I am still pain free ater 8 weeks and have engaged in an extensive stretching program to supplement the procedure. I realize that the population is still small - but it seems to be working for me - (thus far!) Graham