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Sonorex Treatments

Posted by Rene S. on 2/10/01 at 21:27 (038643)

I had the three treatments in the spring of 2000. Now I have read all the postings on this topic tonight and am willing to share my opinion.
I was not impressed with the treatment. The 'technicians' were what? When I asked them their qualifications, they said they had been trained to use the machine. Personally I'd would have never of gone through with it if I had know that before hand.
(I also know of a receptionist that does lazer treatments on scar tissue!) Maybe it is far too easy for anyone to be 'qualified'.
For the $1605 Cdn I paid, the big doctor himself should of been scheduled.
Next, no ultrasound was used, when the Sonorex was pounding away, the pain level was intense and a lot of areas hurt. It was like a cold stake being driven through the heel bone.
When I told the physician at the 6 week follow-up that the pain had returned like a light switch being turned on, well he said I 'must have done something'. I won't even go there with that one!
I my opinion it is over-rated by the number one poster on this website.
More patients should write in and state their experiences. It is a lot of money to waste but I had to try. Personally I'm now with a Orthopeadic Surgeon that knows how to listen to a patient and is knowledgable.

Re: Sonorex Treatments

Dr. Zuckerman on 2/10/01 at 22:43 (038646)

I have no idea if I am the number one poster on this board and I don't have personal experience with the Sonorex but I am glad that you have expressed your opinion .

One of the areas that I have always tried to address and can't seem to know how to do is what and how do you handle a patient that has failure with ESWT wheter it be Sonerex, Ossatron , Orbasone .

I know you can't make anyone and everyone happen with any treatment . There are going to be patients like you that are very unhappy with this treatment. In fact they may be about twenty to twenty-five percent of patients that don't get relief with ESWT. I also know that there are going to be and I have seen patients that have permenant damage from heel spur surgery. So what do you do ? How do you handle this. What would you have wanted to happen besides a promised that you would be cured period no questions asked. I am not trying to be smart, or arrogant and I don't want this posting to show this. I am serious how can any ESWT provider make sure that his patients are happy.

One of the ways I though would be if no relief then your money back but two things would have to occur for this to happen.

1. The cost of the machine couldn't be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

2. The doctor would have to increase his fees so that he could afford to pay for the machine and all of the expenses and still make a profit.

I have though abou this subject many time and still can't come up with the perfect answer.

In my office I do offer patients to do the heel spur surgery either at no charge or at insurance only . This is the best of what I have come up with

I do think in your case they could of continued to do the ESWT procedures at no charge. They could of offered you a local anesthesia.

Something could of been offered. So any thoughts or opinions on this subject are welcomed

Re: Sonorex Treatments

Julie on 2/11/01 at 03:23 (038656)

Dr Z, I really don't think you should be torturing yourself about how to make amends to the patients for whom it doesn't work. All you can do is make sure that they've been evaluated for their chances of success, and that they know the facts and the basic success/failure statistics. You do all this, and it is up to the patients to decide for themselves whether to go ahead, and, as with any medical treatment, accept the risks including the possibility of failure.

NO doctor can guarantee 100% success with any procedure.

Rene, I'm glad you posted your experience, though I'm sorry it wasn't a good one, because it is good to know about all experiences. Dr Z has often said that the ESWT procedure is only as good as the person who administers it. Perhaps you were just unlucky there, or perhaps you weren't a good candidate for the procedure in the first place - and I hope you will find something that DOES help you further along the line.

Re: Sonorex Treatments

Pauline on 2/11/01 at 11:01 (038669)

There are no guarantees in the medical field. Treatment outcomes vary so
much from person to person because everyone body is different. I do believe Rene has a point and that is everyone should be reporting their
own evualation of their treatment themselves and not through a third party. This way the patient can speak freely about their treatment and the outcome. ESWT is one of lifes choices. If it is offered the patient makes their decision based on what ever research they do. They pay their money and take their chances hoping that they are one of the many who gain benefit from the procedure. They made their decision freely. I personally feel its up to the patient to check out the medicial facility and Dr. they select for their treatment. The more experience usually the better outcome. Sometimes folks don't do their homework and make poor decisions then want compension. That's why mal-practice attorneys get rich. Sometimes it warranted sometimes not. That's a whole other area for discussion but not on this board. Rene's opinion is of value because it reminds us that we all are different and that we need to do our own research well before going forward with any form of treatment. So many times people limit their research and make poor choices because they base their decisions solely on insurance coverage. They won't seek another opinion especially if their insurance won't cover the cost. This is a foolish mistake in my opinion because you short change yourself when you begin to put a dollar amount on your own health.

Re: Sonorex Treatments

Cynthia D on 2/11/01 at 13:59 (038685)

Rene - I'm sorry you had a bad outcome from Sonorex. Like Pauline said, everyone needs to make their own decisions concerning their health, so I am not critizing you at all. I just wanted to say that I check out Sonorex in great detail and decided that it was something more offered in spas and health resorts for a 'feel good' treament. I didn't see it as much as a serious medical device as the Orbasone or Ossatron. I'm surpised they charged you $1600. Their website is clean and tidy looking, however, not as medically oriented at Norland or Healthtronics. I'm really sorry you still have pain and hope you find another solution soon.

To Dr. Z: I agree with Barbara that you should not feel one ounce of guilt over a failed treatment, maybe sadness or sympathy, but not guilt. I have many physician friends and you are all only human. Last night at dinner, my friend who is a vascular surgeon who yesterday morning held a 42 year old's life in his hand as he clamped his main aeorta (not sure if the name is right, but the major blood vessel to the brain). As he clamped, the patient started having another stroke and he stabilzed him, and the procedure was a success. What stress you doctors face each and every day and shouldn't add even more stress to yourself.

I had my ESWT Monday, and was informed about my chances of success. If the treatment doesn't work, you shouldn't be held accountable because you made every good effort to perform the procedure to the best of your abililty. I understood that you would provide additional treatments at no additional charge. Patients should be clear on any guarantees, implied and explicit before undergoing any procedure.

However, I am optomistic that I will be in the category of 75-90% cured rate by one treatment!

Re: Sonorex Treatments

Cynthia D on 2/13/01 at 10:34 (038819)

Sorry, I didn't mean to put down Sonorex. After I considered what I said about my opinion, I remembered another reason I couldn't consider Sonorex vs. Orbasone was that it is only available in Canada or one study being done in the US but not in my state. So that was a major factor for me not choosing Sonorex, too. I hope you are feeling better.

Re: Sonorex Treatments

Dr. Zuckerman on 2/10/01 at 22:43 (038646)

I have no idea if I am the number one poster on this board and I don't have personal experience with the Sonorex but I am glad that you have expressed your opinion .

One of the areas that I have always tried to address and can't seem to know how to do is what and how do you handle a patient that has failure with ESWT wheter it be Sonerex, Ossatron , Orbasone .

I know you can't make anyone and everyone happen with any treatment . There are going to be patients like you that are very unhappy with this treatment. In fact they may be about twenty to twenty-five percent of patients that don't get relief with ESWT. I also know that there are going to be and I have seen patients that have permenant damage from heel spur surgery. So what do you do ? How do you handle this. What would you have wanted to happen besides a promised that you would be cured period no questions asked. I am not trying to be smart, or arrogant and I don't want this posting to show this. I am serious how can any ESWT provider make sure that his patients are happy.

One of the ways I though would be if no relief then your money back but two things would have to occur for this to happen.

1. The cost of the machine couldn't be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

2. The doctor would have to increase his fees so that he could afford to pay for the machine and all of the expenses and still make a profit.

I have though abou this subject many time and still can't come up with the perfect answer.

In my office I do offer patients to do the heel spur surgery either at no charge or at insurance only . This is the best of what I have come up with

I do think in your case they could of continued to do the ESWT procedures at no charge. They could of offered you a local anesthesia.

Something could of been offered. So any thoughts or opinions on this subject are welcomed

Re: Sonorex Treatments

Julie on 2/11/01 at 03:23 (038656)

Dr Z, I really don't think you should be torturing yourself about how to make amends to the patients for whom it doesn't work. All you can do is make sure that they've been evaluated for their chances of success, and that they know the facts and the basic success/failure statistics. You do all this, and it is up to the patients to decide for themselves whether to go ahead, and, as with any medical treatment, accept the risks including the possibility of failure.

NO doctor can guarantee 100% success with any procedure.

Rene, I'm glad you posted your experience, though I'm sorry it wasn't a good one, because it is good to know about all experiences. Dr Z has often said that the ESWT procedure is only as good as the person who administers it. Perhaps you were just unlucky there, or perhaps you weren't a good candidate for the procedure in the first place - and I hope you will find something that DOES help you further along the line.

Re: Sonorex Treatments

Pauline on 2/11/01 at 11:01 (038669)

There are no guarantees in the medical field. Treatment outcomes vary so
much from person to person because everyone body is different. I do believe Rene has a point and that is everyone should be reporting their
own evualation of their treatment themselves and not through a third party. This way the patient can speak freely about their treatment and the outcome. ESWT is one of lifes choices. If it is offered the patient makes their decision based on what ever research they do. They pay their money and take their chances hoping that they are one of the many who gain benefit from the procedure. They made their decision freely. I personally feel its up to the patient to check out the medicial facility and Dr. they select for their treatment. The more experience usually the better outcome. Sometimes folks don't do their homework and make poor decisions then want compension. That's why mal-practice attorneys get rich. Sometimes it warranted sometimes not. That's a whole other area for discussion but not on this board. Rene's opinion is of value because it reminds us that we all are different and that we need to do our own research well before going forward with any form of treatment. So many times people limit their research and make poor choices because they base their decisions solely on insurance coverage. They won't seek another opinion especially if their insurance won't cover the cost. This is a foolish mistake in my opinion because you short change yourself when you begin to put a dollar amount on your own health.

Re: Sonorex Treatments

Cynthia D on 2/11/01 at 13:59 (038685)

Rene - I'm sorry you had a bad outcome from Sonorex. Like Pauline said, everyone needs to make their own decisions concerning their health, so I am not critizing you at all. I just wanted to say that I check out Sonorex in great detail and decided that it was something more offered in spas and health resorts for a 'feel good' treament. I didn't see it as much as a serious medical device as the Orbasone or Ossatron. I'm surpised they charged you $1600. Their website is clean and tidy looking, however, not as medically oriented at Norland or Healthtronics. I'm really sorry you still have pain and hope you find another solution soon.

To Dr. Z: I agree with Barbara that you should not feel one ounce of guilt over a failed treatment, maybe sadness or sympathy, but not guilt. I have many physician friends and you are all only human. Last night at dinner, my friend who is a vascular surgeon who yesterday morning held a 42 year old's life in his hand as he clamped his main aeorta (not sure if the name is right, but the major blood vessel to the brain). As he clamped, the patient started having another stroke and he stabilzed him, and the procedure was a success. What stress you doctors face each and every day and shouldn't add even more stress to yourself.

I had my ESWT Monday, and was informed about my chances of success. If the treatment doesn't work, you shouldn't be held accountable because you made every good effort to perform the procedure to the best of your abililty. I understood that you would provide additional treatments at no additional charge. Patients should be clear on any guarantees, implied and explicit before undergoing any procedure.

However, I am optomistic that I will be in the category of 75-90% cured rate by one treatment!

Re: Sonorex Treatments

Cynthia D on 2/13/01 at 10:34 (038819)

Sorry, I didn't mean to put down Sonorex. After I considered what I said about my opinion, I remembered another reason I couldn't consider Sonorex vs. Orbasone was that it is only available in Canada or one study being done in the US but not in my state. So that was a major factor for me not choosing Sonorex, too. I hope you are feeling better.