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Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Posted by Pauline on 3/29/01 at 17:11 (042959)

Dr Zuckerman,
We all know you mean well, but I personally feel your constant pushing of the Blue Light Special ( your discounted offer) is getting to sound sort of tacky. There seems to be a big hurry, yet you really control how long you can offer the service.

Spark plug deal or not, surely they keep longer than two weeks and if your not going out of business and Norland isn't planning to take them back why such urgency. I get a very uneasy feeling with any fast talking, treatment pushing doctor---especially when I know you have full control whether the offer you are making is offered this month or next.

Has Norland Medical given you an indication that the FDA may seize the Machine in the near future? That's the only reason I see that would pose such an urgent situation like the one you are creating.

I personally feel your 'Special' would take on a more professional character if it were on your own Web Site rather than make it look like a Blue Light Special that is tossed into every answer you post.

I mean no harm, but I guess I don't expect to see professionals who post on this board constantly pushing their treatments or products into every response. Just my suggestion.

Re: Give him a break! Dr. Z. is offering a good deal.

Beverly on 3/29/01 at 17:21 (042962)

Pauline,

Honestly, I can't understand why you would attack Dr. Z. of all people.
He tirelessly answers our many questions for free. He does not need to put in all this gratis time on the Board but he does. Nor, have I ever felt he has pushed his EWST site. He has gone out of his way to give helpful information on locating EWST doctors in other locations for those of us who live far away from New Jersey.

After doing research on the TX docs doing this, I have discovered that most of them are charging $5000.00 a foot. (Due in part to be knocked out in outpatient hospital setting.) Even Dr. Z's regular price is a great deal in comparision.

Let's remember, the guy is in business. He is not a nonprofit organization. He has every right to make a reasonable markup on his services. My guess is charging $1200.00 per zap leaves very little room for profit. So it is understandable that it is only available for a limited time period.

I have background in PR. I say this is good advertising. All specials have beginning and endings. They don't last forever. That is what makes them a special promotional. And I seem to recall the reason for this is to produce a video. In exchange for being filmed, the patient gets a reduced fee for this limited time.

If I were anywhere near N.J. I would be on my way to his office in a heartbeat.

Beverly

Re: That's right.

Julie on 3/29/01 at 17:36 (042965)

Me too, Bev. All the way from London. If I needed ESWT, that's where I'd go for it. for sure.

Actually, I've felt since the special offer started that the 'urgency' has been simply to get people to take it up for THEIR sakes. At $1200 a foot, as you say, he can't be making much.

You forgot one thing: Dr Z's lotto. Giving a free treatment every month is as much beyond the call of duty as answering thousands of board questions gratis.

Re: Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Barbara TX on 3/29/01 at 18:05 (042972)

Pauline - You begin your post with 'I know you mean well' but the rest of your post is full of suspicious ill-will, especially when you call Dr.Z a 'fast-talker' and a 'pusher.' I am trying very hard to understand why you assign mixed motives to Dr. Z's offer to discount ESWT. Do you even understand how expensive the spark plugs are or how often they have to be changed? They 'surely' DO NOT keep longer then two weeks. Do you have some inside information about Norland Medical, or are you just imagining this stuff in your head? Please let us all know.

Most puzzling of all is the fact that you take Dr. Z's attempts to be kind and consistently mention ESWT on the board as someting self-serving. If he feels that it is the very best treatment for pf, he MUST inform patients that its a viable treatment. It is only ethical You must have run across a load of crappy doctors. I hope you will admit the possibility that there are just doctors out there who are concerned for their patients and their ability to afford ESWT.

First you bug him about not using aenesthesia, and then you bug him about offering ESWT cheap.. what's next? B.

Re: I agree, Bev.......

Steve P on 3/29/01 at 18:29 (042981)

Consider that the Orbasone costs about $250,000. Remember that Dr. Z has made multiple trips to Paris & other locations to learn all he can from the experts. All of this has to be factored into the cost per treatment. The machine also has maintenance costs & of course there is the labor of Dr. Z & his staff that must be prorated into each treatment. All this is in addition to overhead costs (rental, insurance, etc.), that are part of any medical practice.

I'm not trying to be an accountant here, but my gut feeling is the same as yours, Beverly. $1200 seems to me to be a bare bones price.

Re: Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Kay S on 3/29/01 at 20:50 (042996)

Pauline--I too was upset about the inference about Dr. Z. If you don't think he is a good doctor, then don't ask him any more questions or read what he has to say on this board. A lot of us ARE his patients, and I felt that you were putting me down for that choice by the things you said about him. As most of us have found, he is kind and caring, and answers everyone's questions here FOR NOTHING except the good feeling he gets from helping all of us.
The cost of ESWT may be determined by each doc who does the treatments. Why make his offer of a reduced price a negative thing? It may afford someone who would otherwise not be able to pay a chance at some pain relief from this pf monster. How can you think that his motives are selfish when he could be out promoting himself and charging up the wazoo instead of answering our questions here?
Would you do your job for nothing?
I'm sorry, Pauline, but I really don't agree at all with what you said and think it was borderline mean. Dr. Z is not only a good pod but he is a good human being. Have you ever met him? You'd think so too, I bet.
Kay

Re: Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Dr. Zuckerman on 3/29/01 at 21:01 (042998)

Thanks,

I am amazed at the people that are being excluded from ESWT treatment due to the cost. My lotto and these types of offers allow alot of the common blue collar workers to get needed treatment and they now don't have to go under the knife due to not being able to pay for the high cost of ESWT treatments. I am going to get some great video of patients before, during and after the orbasone ESWT treatments. As you know my goal has always been to get the cost of ESWT affordable to the average person. I was hoping to have the help of my fellow colleagues in my area where I practice but they just don't want do anything except orthosis and or surgery. ESWT isn't the cure all but it should be available to patients that want this option at a cost that they can afford to pay. This won't happen unless the field of ESWT is open to all of the companies that make machines.

Re: Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Scott R on 3/29/01 at 21:32 (042999)

Dr. Z, the best way to do the videos would be for you to put ALL the pre-treatments during a 6 week period, have 2 of your office workers sign a statement saying these were all the patients treated during that period, then send me the tape. Then do another tape for ALL the patients 12 weeks or so later, with office employee signatures. As an alternative, email addresses could be stated in the pre-treatment video, and I could email them later to see how things are going. In any event the idea is to prove you are reporting ALL the results accurately.

Re: Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Pauline on 3/29/01 at 22:24 (043002)

In my own defense, I am merely making reference to observations and my own feelings about the way a Professional (whether it be Dr. Z or anyone else
advertises on the site. I never expected you to agree with me, but the reality still remains that 'the blue light special' never came up until others began to ask about who was doing ESWT in their states or cities.
Certainly I'm intitled to my own opinions and I feel once he made his, more than generous, offer on this site it would be more professional to post it on his own Web Site. With so many new sites popping up, maybe Scott should add a list of locations to his web page so folks would know all their options.

I questioned the false urgency that Dr. Z has created because he alone has total control of how and when the treatments will be given. We all know he secured extra spark plugs but doesn't he decide whether he uses all of them in two weeks or sets 10 aside to be used in April or May. What will happen if he decides to keep 10 in the box and use them in May with another special offer? Are we to assume that if 10 remain secure in their boxes that they will deteriorate. My opinion says that the only urgency here is the one he is personally creating unless the manufacturer is telling him something different. Thats not to say it's a good thing or a bad thing it just a fact.

Additionally while many of you want to believe otherwise, the truth is that many doctors have financial interest in the companies that manufacturer their equipment as well as the equipment itself. Is this wrong, of course not, but it is a monetary fact that cannot be left out of equation. I wouldn't quite call it a skin and bones operation just yet.

These are my opinions and of course you have yours---thats America. I don't intend to lose too much sleep over this and I hope you don't either.

Re: To Kay Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Pauline on 3/29/01 at 22:43 (043003)

Dear Kay,
You must not take things so personal, especially my postings. I rather
enjoy stimulating conversation. You should know this by now. Sometimes I have to prickle the minds to get good dialoge. It always works.

Re: Some information for Pauline

Lori E. on 3/29/01 at 23:34 (043004)

Pauline,
I am sorry that you find attacking others stimulating. The things you said were not harmless. You are questioning someone's professional ethics publicly. I can understand being in pain and wanting information, I have been there. I just think what you have said is too much.
This is a public forum and we must all think about the fact that the things we post are out there for all to see, and your statements can be found by any search engine. Someone could find just part of this discussion and get the wrong idea about this discussion, ESWT, and Dr. Z.
The one spark plug is used per each ESWT treatment. They are medical grade, not the kind you find in your car and are very, very expensive. My electrical engineering sources estimate $600 if not a thousand dollars or more for each spark plug. They are custom machined with expesive materials, (and most likely must be imported from Europe,) that must be factored into the cost. They don't make them thousands at a time so that also adds to the cost.
Dr. Z must factor the cost of them into his treatment if he wants to stay in business. If he goes belly up it helps none of us. So he got a deal and wants to pass that onto his patients, that is a kind and generous thing to do. He most likely timed the special to last as long as his supply would normally last. I very much doubt that he would be holding out on us.
It appears to me that you are 'stirring the pot' because maybe you don't understand how a person can be motivated by genuine empathy and kindness. There are people out there in the world who are actually trying to help others and are not motivated by selfishness or greed.
Dr. Z has done more for all of us than I have room to state here, remember he gives away a free treatment each month. That is not just one foot if you need both done, or just one treatment if you need two. He gives away the same treatment he would give a paying patient FOR FREE! I am one of the lucky winners and don't know what I would have done without it. I know that I probably would be taking him up on his special right now. From the treatment that I have recieved from him FOR FREE I know that he is not a scam artist. He just wants to help others.
I guess I can understand your scepticism and thinking that Dr. Z is too good to be true, but he is real and doesn't deserve this kind of treatment.
Unfortunately people like Dr. Z take alot of crap from others for being kind. I don't understand, but it seems to happen to the best people.
So maybe you can accept that there are doctors out there who actually help people and stop trying to upset all of us by making unsubstantiated accusations.

Re: Re:

Julie on 3/30/01 at 01:28 (043007)

Pauline, I did lose some sleep over your post. It was well past my bedtime when made my quick response to Beverly last night; but when I went to bed I lay awake for some time thinking about it. It seems it had disturbed me a good deal: not so much what you said, but the tone in which you said it. It was mean and spiteful, and it left an awfully bad taste.

Now it's morning here, and I see that others have been as disturbed by your attitude as I am, and have expressed their feelings eloquently. I have nothing to add; I agree with it all. But I think what bothers me most is this. I've gathered, from your past posts, that you are a religious person, a Christian. How, then, is it possible that you can be so uncharitably suspicious of the motives of a man who daily proves himself kind, generous, and genuinely good, and whose qualities have been attested to time and again by people who have met him and been treated by him?

There are people who are not self-serving, who have no ulterior motives, and who do what they do because they want to help others. As Lori says, they unfortunately attract the cynicism and suspicion of people to whom altruism is incomprehensible. I 'm saddened that you, of all people, should have questioned the professional integrity of Dr Zuckerman, of all people. You are entitled to your opinions, but that you expressed them on a public forum, instead of informing him of them privately, is inexcusable. I think you should apologize, and I hope you will.

Re: Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Nancy N on 3/30/01 at 07:13 (043022)

Pauline--

You use as the crux of your 'argument' that Dr. Z only made this offer when people started asking about ESWT in their cities. I think this is absolute hogwash, and I suspect you know that. People have been talking about ESWT treatments in other places, including Canada, California, and Texas for MONTHS. Maybe you haven't been paying attention as closely as you think? I don't know, but if this is the reason that you expect us to go along with you, I think you should check your facts before making such a claim. I don't think you'll ever convince the people on this board that Dr. Z is out to get them--and why should you? I've never met him, but he has taken the time to answer many of my own questions, and those of countless others, for absolutely no compensation whatsoever. He offers the lotto every month in an attempt to make ESWT accessible to those who would not otherwise be able to afford it--which is exactly what he is doing now. It is a rare doctor indeed who makes the choice to help patients rather than make extra money.

You know, I have to wonder. Do you go into your grocery store at the end of a sales week and tell the manager they are morally obligated to offer the sale prices all the time? Probably not, and you may think my example is ridiculous. But it is exactly what you're doing to Dr Z. If he managed to get a good deal on the spark plugs, why shouldn't he pass that along if he chooses to? He could have decided not to tell us, and make a tidy profit for himself--but he didn't.

You're entitled to your opinion, but nobody is making you go to Dr. Z for a treatment, discounted or otherwise, and you're certainly not entitled to try to discredit him because of your personal, unsubstantiated opinions.

Re: To Kay Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Dr. Zuckerman on 3/30/01 at 07:31 (043025)

Are you coming to the heelspurs.com annual family picnic? I want to sit right next to you Pauline.

I really was't hurt by your comments. Anyone with the name Pauline is going to have to pay 100,000 dollars for just the office consultation. The treatment is extra. Just kidding. Now say you are sorry to the people you hurt and let's get back to heel pain talk.

Re: Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Dr. Zuckerman on 3/30/01 at 07:40 (043028)

i will set this up .

Re: The dawning of a new day!

Pauline on 3/30/01 at 08:29 (043031)

To all,
There will... be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nive righteoous people who have no need of rependance. Lk 15:7
I apologize to all offended. For the record my name is not in the lotto so if a 'Pauline' wins no need to panic. You wouldn't be treating the 'enemy'. Have a great day!

Re: The dawning of a new day!

Dr. Zuckerman on 3/30/01 at 08:43 (043034)

The enemy is heel pain. That is the only thing I want to treat

Re: To Kay Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Kay S on 3/30/01 at 09:01 (043036)

Pauline
I don't consider myself to be overly sensitive about anything, and anger is not an integral part of my day. However, when something said is hurtful or mean-spirited about someone else, it bothers me A LOT.
I also enjoy the stimulating conversation on this board, but would never attack someone's integrity to get it. I almost feel as though I can hear you laughing about this, when it is not amusing at all. I am very uncomfortable and saddened about this whole thing.
If you are sincere about apologizing, please don't quote any scripture. Just direct your comments to Dr. Z and make an effort to sound sincere.
Now let's get back to complaining about pf, an inanimate 'thing' which none of us would care about hurting!
Kay

Re: To Kay Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Pauline on 3/30/01 at 09:19 (043040)

Hi Kay,
Im sorry you don't feel my apology sincere enough but you know no matter what I expressed at this point wouldn't measure up to someones expectation.

Re: To Pauline

Julie on 3/30/01 at 10:13 (043044)

I have no expectations, Pauline, only a hope that you have somecomprehension of how hurtful your remarks were and how disturbing they have been to so many of us. I too feel that your 'apology' wasn't a real apology. It sounds like a token, a bone thrown to people you clearly feel have taken it all too seriously. It was serious, and I hope that in time you will see that.

Re: Remarks

Pauline on 3/30/01 at 13:59 (043066)

I think the only thing that will allow this to pass is a public stoning.
Since that can't be done, I am suggestion a Cyber Stoning. I'll post my name and you can to throw stones by posting the word 'STONE'. You'll have to determine when I'm dead. Here is my body.

PAULINE

Re: Remarks

Dr. Zuckerman on 3/30/01 at 14:42 (043069)

How about shockwaving you, can I charge you for every shock that is placed directly, where do you want me to do this shocking. I will throw the spark plugs in for this public shocking. So if you agree to the shocking,we can have everyone just write the word shocking. I could even get the FDA to approve of this treatment . We will call this public shockwave treatment for cybermeaness. This is starting to be fun. I just hope that the rest of the heelspurs.com people think this is funny. So do we shock you or do we stone you. Let's vote. My vote is for the shocking.

Now if the behavior continues then we will up the kv and maybe even get the ossatron involved and then the fee is really going to cost you. So for this time only we use the orbasone if it continues then the ossatron will be used on you. Ok !!

Re: Pauline, that was meladrama, not an apology!

Beverly on 3/30/01 at 15:12 (043070)

Pauline,

That did not sound like an apology to me. It sounds like meladrama!
I'm glad that despite this, Dr. Z. has a sense of humor.

Pauline, most of us when we are in longterm pain, hit periods of anger, but there is no reason to direct it at the person who has been the most helpful of any professional on this board.

Personally, it I ever win the Texas lottery, I'll see if Dr. Z. wants to relocate to the sunny southwest to be my personal doc!

As you can see, no one agrees with your meanspirited words against Dr. Z.
Beverly

Re: Remarks

Pauline on 3/30/01 at 15:14 (043071)

Your 'wills' be done. Just let me know when I am dead. Sorry I only have one life to give you. I don't think it will be enough.

Re: End of thread, I hope

Julie on 3/30/01 at 16:03 (043076)

Pauline, nobody wants to shoot you or wants you dead. All that was called was a little bit of insight, some remorse for the unnecessary and hurtful things you said, and a genuine apology. But your recent posts seem really to be saying that you think we are all silly people making a fuss about nothing, and wrong, and that you are right. I hope you'll see things more clearly one day, for your own sake.

So let's just let it all go now.

It IS good Dr Z can see the funny side of it. And in a way, upsetting as this has been, there's an up side too, in that he knows how grateful most of us are for all he gives, if he didn't know before.

Re: End of thread, I hope

pf sufferer on 3/30/01 at 17:19 (043084)

I have read this string. I cant believe the thoughtless and mean things that were said. How often do you find a Doctor that has the time to care enough to answer all these free questions? Maybe that Pauline needs a good shokwave treatment to the cranium from the ossatron. Maybe then she would realize we are all not silly and think ALL Doctors are out to rip us off.

I think it is nice that the Dr Z is making humor from this. But be careful some patients can be a little loco and do things when angry. Dr Z is a great guy(it seems) so keep up the good work. Sorry but Pauline seems like a person that complains about how cold the ice is in a restaurant.....enough said

Re: FORGIVEN

DIANE on 3/30/01 at 23:58 (043113)

if GOD can forgive us for our mistakes , then why can't we forgive our brother.pauline ,you had the right to express your self and i am sure all of us have done the same somewhere along the line.Chevrolet is always saying Dodge is not that gooda truck.but Dodge keeps on trucking. keep posting and have a great and blessed day. diane

Re: Finding this a scary place to be

first time reader on 4/02/01 at 09:04 (043307)

Heh,
Is this a real site or is this for all to judge otheres? I thought this is about helping deal with a miserable condition and a place to find different or available treatments that we may not know of? Sounds like a teens room deciding who is right or wrong. We all have opions on treatments I guess we cannot express them here!!!!!! Someone needs a principal here. Glad to see the world has not changed much even in here when we all have so much pain in our darn feet lets take it out on others instead of where it really is coming from right is this the answer? I dont know if I shall ever return here. I am ashamed that such amnosity is in a site that is posted for helping people. Now lets get down to the issues and take care of the people who want to be taken care of and ignore the words that may hurt but maybe think that person must be in tremendus pain today and feeling like NOTHING will ever help. Give them some hope and understanding and then pat the people who dedicate time also,as wonder how a person can devote so much time to this site and a practice to . Please Please let us continue and remember pain is pain and it hurts and some use other ways to express there pain. Should I return here or should I RUN from the next stoning, will u pick me next if so wonderful then I know we can go on as that is how it will be.
scared and running on my knees!!!!!

Re: Give him a break! Dr. Z. is offering a good deal.

Beverly on 3/29/01 at 17:21 (042962)

Pauline,

Honestly, I can't understand why you would attack Dr. Z. of all people.
He tirelessly answers our many questions for free. He does not need to put in all this gratis time on the Board but he does. Nor, have I ever felt he has pushed his EWST site. He has gone out of his way to give helpful information on locating EWST doctors in other locations for those of us who live far away from New Jersey.

After doing research on the TX docs doing this, I have discovered that most of them are charging $5000.00 a foot. (Due in part to be knocked out in outpatient hospital setting.) Even Dr. Z's regular price is a great deal in comparision.

Let's remember, the guy is in business. He is not a nonprofit organization. He has every right to make a reasonable markup on his services. My guess is charging $1200.00 per zap leaves very little room for profit. So it is understandable that it is only available for a limited time period.

I have background in PR. I say this is good advertising. All specials have beginning and endings. They don't last forever. That is what makes them a special promotional. And I seem to recall the reason for this is to produce a video. In exchange for being filmed, the patient gets a reduced fee for this limited time.

If I were anywhere near N.J. I would be on my way to his office in a heartbeat.

Beverly

Re: That's right.

Julie on 3/29/01 at 17:36 (042965)

Me too, Bev. All the way from London. If I needed ESWT, that's where I'd go for it. for sure.

Actually, I've felt since the special offer started that the 'urgency' has been simply to get people to take it up for THEIR sakes. At $1200 a foot, as you say, he can't be making much.

You forgot one thing: Dr Z's lotto. Giving a free treatment every month is as much beyond the call of duty as answering thousands of board questions gratis.

Re: Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Barbara TX on 3/29/01 at 18:05 (042972)

Pauline - You begin your post with 'I know you mean well' but the rest of your post is full of suspicious ill-will, especially when you call Dr.Z a 'fast-talker' and a 'pusher.' I am trying very hard to understand why you assign mixed motives to Dr. Z's offer to discount ESWT. Do you even understand how expensive the spark plugs are or how often they have to be changed? They 'surely' DO NOT keep longer then two weeks. Do you have some inside information about Norland Medical, or are you just imagining this stuff in your head? Please let us all know.

Most puzzling of all is the fact that you take Dr. Z's attempts to be kind and consistently mention ESWT on the board as someting self-serving. If he feels that it is the very best treatment for pf, he MUST inform patients that its a viable treatment. It is only ethical You must have run across a load of crappy doctors. I hope you will admit the possibility that there are just doctors out there who are concerned for their patients and their ability to afford ESWT.

First you bug him about not using aenesthesia, and then you bug him about offering ESWT cheap.. what's next? B.

Re: I agree, Bev.......

Steve P on 3/29/01 at 18:29 (042981)

Consider that the Orbasone costs about $250,000. Remember that Dr. Z has made multiple trips to Paris & other locations to learn all he can from the experts. All of this has to be factored into the cost per treatment. The machine also has maintenance costs & of course there is the labor of Dr. Z & his staff that must be prorated into each treatment. All this is in addition to overhead costs (rental, insurance, etc.), that are part of any medical practice.

I'm not trying to be an accountant here, but my gut feeling is the same as yours, Beverly. $1200 seems to me to be a bare bones price.

Re: Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Kay S on 3/29/01 at 20:50 (042996)

Pauline--I too was upset about the inference about Dr. Z. If you don't think he is a good doctor, then don't ask him any more questions or read what he has to say on this board. A lot of us ARE his patients, and I felt that you were putting me down for that choice by the things you said about him. As most of us have found, he is kind and caring, and answers everyone's questions here FOR NOTHING except the good feeling he gets from helping all of us.
The cost of ESWT may be determined by each doc who does the treatments. Why make his offer of a reduced price a negative thing? It may afford someone who would otherwise not be able to pay a chance at some pain relief from this pf monster. How can you think that his motives are selfish when he could be out promoting himself and charging up the wazoo instead of answering our questions here?
Would you do your job for nothing?
I'm sorry, Pauline, but I really don't agree at all with what you said and think it was borderline mean. Dr. Z is not only a good pod but he is a good human being. Have you ever met him? You'd think so too, I bet.
Kay

Re: Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Dr. Zuckerman on 3/29/01 at 21:01 (042998)

Thanks,

I am amazed at the people that are being excluded from ESWT treatment due to the cost. My lotto and these types of offers allow alot of the common blue collar workers to get needed treatment and they now don't have to go under the knife due to not being able to pay for the high cost of ESWT treatments. I am going to get some great video of patients before, during and after the orbasone ESWT treatments. As you know my goal has always been to get the cost of ESWT affordable to the average person. I was hoping to have the help of my fellow colleagues in my area where I practice but they just don't want do anything except orthosis and or surgery. ESWT isn't the cure all but it should be available to patients that want this option at a cost that they can afford to pay. This won't happen unless the field of ESWT is open to all of the companies that make machines.

Re: Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Scott R on 3/29/01 at 21:32 (042999)

Dr. Z, the best way to do the videos would be for you to put ALL the pre-treatments during a 6 week period, have 2 of your office workers sign a statement saying these were all the patients treated during that period, then send me the tape. Then do another tape for ALL the patients 12 weeks or so later, with office employee signatures. As an alternative, email addresses could be stated in the pre-treatment video, and I could email them later to see how things are going. In any event the idea is to prove you are reporting ALL the results accurately.

Re: Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Pauline on 3/29/01 at 22:24 (043002)

In my own defense, I am merely making reference to observations and my own feelings about the way a Professional (whether it be Dr. Z or anyone else
advertises on the site. I never expected you to agree with me, but the reality still remains that 'the blue light special' never came up until others began to ask about who was doing ESWT in their states or cities.
Certainly I'm intitled to my own opinions and I feel once he made his, more than generous, offer on this site it would be more professional to post it on his own Web Site. With so many new sites popping up, maybe Scott should add a list of locations to his web page so folks would know all their options.

I questioned the false urgency that Dr. Z has created because he alone has total control of how and when the treatments will be given. We all know he secured extra spark plugs but doesn't he decide whether he uses all of them in two weeks or sets 10 aside to be used in April or May. What will happen if he decides to keep 10 in the box and use them in May with another special offer? Are we to assume that if 10 remain secure in their boxes that they will deteriorate. My opinion says that the only urgency here is the one he is personally creating unless the manufacturer is telling him something different. Thats not to say it's a good thing or a bad thing it just a fact.

Additionally while many of you want to believe otherwise, the truth is that many doctors have financial interest in the companies that manufacturer their equipment as well as the equipment itself. Is this wrong, of course not, but it is a monetary fact that cannot be left out of equation. I wouldn't quite call it a skin and bones operation just yet.

These are my opinions and of course you have yours---thats America. I don't intend to lose too much sleep over this and I hope you don't either.

Re: To Kay Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Pauline on 3/29/01 at 22:43 (043003)

Dear Kay,
You must not take things so personal, especially my postings. I rather
enjoy stimulating conversation. You should know this by now. Sometimes I have to prickle the minds to get good dialoge. It always works.

Re: Some information for Pauline

Lori E. on 3/29/01 at 23:34 (043004)

Pauline,
I am sorry that you find attacking others stimulating. The things you said were not harmless. You are questioning someone's professional ethics publicly. I can understand being in pain and wanting information, I have been there. I just think what you have said is too much.
This is a public forum and we must all think about the fact that the things we post are out there for all to see, and your statements can be found by any search engine. Someone could find just part of this discussion and get the wrong idea about this discussion, ESWT, and Dr. Z.
The one spark plug is used per each ESWT treatment. They are medical grade, not the kind you find in your car and are very, very expensive. My electrical engineering sources estimate $600 if not a thousand dollars or more for each spark plug. They are custom machined with expesive materials, (and most likely must be imported from Europe,) that must be factored into the cost. They don't make them thousands at a time so that also adds to the cost.
Dr. Z must factor the cost of them into his treatment if he wants to stay in business. If he goes belly up it helps none of us. So he got a deal and wants to pass that onto his patients, that is a kind and generous thing to do. He most likely timed the special to last as long as his supply would normally last. I very much doubt that he would be holding out on us.
It appears to me that you are 'stirring the pot' because maybe you don't understand how a person can be motivated by genuine empathy and kindness. There are people out there in the world who are actually trying to help others and are not motivated by selfishness or greed.
Dr. Z has done more for all of us than I have room to state here, remember he gives away a free treatment each month. That is not just one foot if you need both done, or just one treatment if you need two. He gives away the same treatment he would give a paying patient FOR FREE! I am one of the lucky winners and don't know what I would have done without it. I know that I probably would be taking him up on his special right now. From the treatment that I have recieved from him FOR FREE I know that he is not a scam artist. He just wants to help others.
I guess I can understand your scepticism and thinking that Dr. Z is too good to be true, but he is real and doesn't deserve this kind of treatment.
Unfortunately people like Dr. Z take alot of crap from others for being kind. I don't understand, but it seems to happen to the best people.
So maybe you can accept that there are doctors out there who actually help people and stop trying to upset all of us by making unsubstantiated accusations.

Re: Re:

Julie on 3/30/01 at 01:28 (043007)

Pauline, I did lose some sleep over your post. It was well past my bedtime when made my quick response to Beverly last night; but when I went to bed I lay awake for some time thinking about it. It seems it had disturbed me a good deal: not so much what you said, but the tone in which you said it. It was mean and spiteful, and it left an awfully bad taste.

Now it's morning here, and I see that others have been as disturbed by your attitude as I am, and have expressed their feelings eloquently. I have nothing to add; I agree with it all. But I think what bothers me most is this. I've gathered, from your past posts, that you are a religious person, a Christian. How, then, is it possible that you can be so uncharitably suspicious of the motives of a man who daily proves himself kind, generous, and genuinely good, and whose qualities have been attested to time and again by people who have met him and been treated by him?

There are people who are not self-serving, who have no ulterior motives, and who do what they do because they want to help others. As Lori says, they unfortunately attract the cynicism and suspicion of people to whom altruism is incomprehensible. I 'm saddened that you, of all people, should have questioned the professional integrity of Dr Zuckerman, of all people. You are entitled to your opinions, but that you expressed them on a public forum, instead of informing him of them privately, is inexcusable. I think you should apologize, and I hope you will.

Re: Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Nancy N on 3/30/01 at 07:13 (043022)

Pauline--

You use as the crux of your 'argument' that Dr. Z only made this offer when people started asking about ESWT in their cities. I think this is absolute hogwash, and I suspect you know that. People have been talking about ESWT treatments in other places, including Canada, California, and Texas for MONTHS. Maybe you haven't been paying attention as closely as you think? I don't know, but if this is the reason that you expect us to go along with you, I think you should check your facts before making such a claim. I don't think you'll ever convince the people on this board that Dr. Z is out to get them--and why should you? I've never met him, but he has taken the time to answer many of my own questions, and those of countless others, for absolutely no compensation whatsoever. He offers the lotto every month in an attempt to make ESWT accessible to those who would not otherwise be able to afford it--which is exactly what he is doing now. It is a rare doctor indeed who makes the choice to help patients rather than make extra money.

You know, I have to wonder. Do you go into your grocery store at the end of a sales week and tell the manager they are morally obligated to offer the sale prices all the time? Probably not, and you may think my example is ridiculous. But it is exactly what you're doing to Dr Z. If he managed to get a good deal on the spark plugs, why shouldn't he pass that along if he chooses to? He could have decided not to tell us, and make a tidy profit for himself--but he didn't.

You're entitled to your opinion, but nobody is making you go to Dr. Z for a treatment, discounted or otherwise, and you're certainly not entitled to try to discredit him because of your personal, unsubstantiated opinions.

Re: To Kay Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Dr. Zuckerman on 3/30/01 at 07:31 (043025)

Are you coming to the heelspurs.com annual family picnic? I want to sit right next to you Pauline.

I really was't hurt by your comments. Anyone with the name Pauline is going to have to pay 100,000 dollars for just the office consultation. The treatment is extra. Just kidding. Now say you are sorry to the people you hurt and let's get back to heel pain talk.

Re: Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Dr. Zuckerman on 3/30/01 at 07:40 (043028)

i will set this up .

Re: The dawning of a new day!

Pauline on 3/30/01 at 08:29 (043031)

To all,
There will... be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nive righteoous people who have no need of rependance. Lk 15:7
I apologize to all offended. For the record my name is not in the lotto so if a 'Pauline' wins no need to panic. You wouldn't be treating the 'enemy'. Have a great day!

Re: The dawning of a new day!

Dr. Zuckerman on 3/30/01 at 08:43 (043034)

The enemy is heel pain. That is the only thing I want to treat

Re: To Kay Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Kay S on 3/30/01 at 09:01 (043036)

Pauline
I don't consider myself to be overly sensitive about anything, and anger is not an integral part of my day. However, when something said is hurtful or mean-spirited about someone else, it bothers me A LOT.
I also enjoy the stimulating conversation on this board, but would never attack someone's integrity to get it. I almost feel as though I can hear you laughing about this, when it is not amusing at all. I am very uncomfortable and saddened about this whole thing.
If you are sincere about apologizing, please don't quote any scripture. Just direct your comments to Dr. Z and make an effort to sound sincere.
Now let's get back to complaining about pf, an inanimate 'thing' which none of us would care about hurting!
Kay

Re: To Kay Sounding more and more like a Blue Light Special

Pauline on 3/30/01 at 09:19 (043040)

Hi Kay,
Im sorry you don't feel my apology sincere enough but you know no matter what I expressed at this point wouldn't measure up to someones expectation.

Re: To Pauline

Julie on 3/30/01 at 10:13 (043044)

I have no expectations, Pauline, only a hope that you have somecomprehension of how hurtful your remarks were and how disturbing they have been to so many of us. I too feel that your 'apology' wasn't a real apology. It sounds like a token, a bone thrown to people you clearly feel have taken it all too seriously. It was serious, and I hope that in time you will see that.

Re: Remarks

Pauline on 3/30/01 at 13:59 (043066)

I think the only thing that will allow this to pass is a public stoning.
Since that can't be done, I am suggestion a Cyber Stoning. I'll post my name and you can to throw stones by posting the word 'STONE'. You'll have to determine when I'm dead. Here is my body.

PAULINE

Re: Remarks

Dr. Zuckerman on 3/30/01 at 14:42 (043069)

How about shockwaving you, can I charge you for every shock that is placed directly, where do you want me to do this shocking. I will throw the spark plugs in for this public shocking. So if you agree to the shocking,we can have everyone just write the word shocking. I could even get the FDA to approve of this treatment . We will call this public shockwave treatment for cybermeaness. This is starting to be fun. I just hope that the rest of the heelspurs.com people think this is funny. So do we shock you or do we stone you. Let's vote. My vote is for the shocking.

Now if the behavior continues then we will up the kv and maybe even get the ossatron involved and then the fee is really going to cost you. So for this time only we use the orbasone if it continues then the ossatron will be used on you. Ok !!

Re: Pauline, that was meladrama, not an apology!

Beverly on 3/30/01 at 15:12 (043070)

Pauline,

That did not sound like an apology to me. It sounds like meladrama!
I'm glad that despite this, Dr. Z. has a sense of humor.

Pauline, most of us when we are in longterm pain, hit periods of anger, but there is no reason to direct it at the person who has been the most helpful of any professional on this board.

Personally, it I ever win the Texas lottery, I'll see if Dr. Z. wants to relocate to the sunny southwest to be my personal doc!

As you can see, no one agrees with your meanspirited words against Dr. Z.
Beverly

Re: Remarks

Pauline on 3/30/01 at 15:14 (043071)

Your 'wills' be done. Just let me know when I am dead. Sorry I only have one life to give you. I don't think it will be enough.

Re: End of thread, I hope

Julie on 3/30/01 at 16:03 (043076)

Pauline, nobody wants to shoot you or wants you dead. All that was called was a little bit of insight, some remorse for the unnecessary and hurtful things you said, and a genuine apology. But your recent posts seem really to be saying that you think we are all silly people making a fuss about nothing, and wrong, and that you are right. I hope you'll see things more clearly one day, for your own sake.

So let's just let it all go now.

It IS good Dr Z can see the funny side of it. And in a way, upsetting as this has been, there's an up side too, in that he knows how grateful most of us are for all he gives, if he didn't know before.

Re: End of thread, I hope

pf sufferer on 3/30/01 at 17:19 (043084)

I have read this string. I cant believe the thoughtless and mean things that were said. How often do you find a Doctor that has the time to care enough to answer all these free questions? Maybe that Pauline needs a good shokwave treatment to the cranium from the ossatron. Maybe then she would realize we are all not silly and think ALL Doctors are out to rip us off.

I think it is nice that the Dr Z is making humor from this. But be careful some patients can be a little loco and do things when angry. Dr Z is a great guy(it seems) so keep up the good work. Sorry but Pauline seems like a person that complains about how cold the ice is in a restaurant.....enough said

Re: FORGIVEN

DIANE on 3/30/01 at 23:58 (043113)

if GOD can forgive us for our mistakes , then why can't we forgive our brother.pauline ,you had the right to express your self and i am sure all of us have done the same somewhere along the line.Chevrolet is always saying Dodge is not that gooda truck.but Dodge keeps on trucking. keep posting and have a great and blessed day. diane

Re: Finding this a scary place to be

first time reader on 4/02/01 at 09:04 (043307)

Heh,
Is this a real site or is this for all to judge otheres? I thought this is about helping deal with a miserable condition and a place to find different or available treatments that we may not know of? Sounds like a teens room deciding who is right or wrong. We all have opions on treatments I guess we cannot express them here!!!!!! Someone needs a principal here. Glad to see the world has not changed much even in here when we all have so much pain in our darn feet lets take it out on others instead of where it really is coming from right is this the answer? I dont know if I shall ever return here. I am ashamed that such amnosity is in a site that is posted for helping people. Now lets get down to the issues and take care of the people who want to be taken care of and ignore the words that may hurt but maybe think that person must be in tremendus pain today and feeling like NOTHING will ever help. Give them some hope and understanding and then pat the people who dedicate time also,as wonder how a person can devote so much time to this site and a practice to . Please Please let us continue and remember pain is pain and it hurts and some use other ways to express there pain. Should I return here or should I RUN from the next stoning, will u pick me next if so wonderful then I know we can go on as that is how it will be.
scared and running on my knees!!!!!