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Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Posted by Rose L. on 3/30/01 at hrmin (043091)

Hi all! This is my first official post to this messageboard although I've been peeking in on you all for about two months now and have been getting information from heelspurs.com for over a year now. I really appreciate the website and Dr.Z's energetic input. Dr. Z: Your patient progress reports are awesome! It must feel good to have alleviated the pain of so many people. I was torn between New Jersey and Toronto for my ESWT...I've been suffering from bilateral pf for 16 months. I choose Heidi Brunner of Bayshore ESWT Pain Clinic in Markham, Ontario (Greater Toronto Area). My reasons for going all the way to Toronto are personal, but I want to meet Dr. Zuckerman, too! Heidi(like Dr. Z from what I have perceived) is tremendously dedicated, knowledgeable and clear on her mission/purpose in her choosen field: to help heal and cure people! The treatment was painful (four every other day w/ Sonocur), but not unbearable! Because I experienced no immediate relief (the treatments really stirred up inflamation & tenderness), I'm a little nervous that I won't have dramatic improvement. I want/need/have to have dramatic improvement! (as we all do). Heidi said that in six weeks we can make an assesment of the outcome. I need encouragement from anyone out there who has had ESWT, was paranoid during the first two weeks post ESWT and eventually saw dramatic improvement. Dr. Zuckerman, I'd love to hear from you - any thoughts at all. P.S.. I know we're trying to get away from the bruhauhau over your pricing specials, but my two bits is - I'm always thrilled to see a professional make his/her service more affordable. Creative marketing is fun! Thanks for listening! Rose from Bay Area northern California signing off!

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Steve P on 3/31/01 at 09:54 (043131)

Hi Rose. I had my first ESWT 4 days ago from Dr. Z, so we're on the same schedule. I also have bilateral PF (1 year); he only treated one foot this first time. So I'll be back at least once for the other foot & maybe more for repeat treatments. I'm only 2 hours from Dr. Z.

Like you, I have experienced no change since ESWT, but Dr. Z says this is normal. He says that 6 to 12 weeks post-ESWT is the important window for improvement. Interesting that Heidi also mentioned 6 weeks.

I know you & I were both hoping for something immediate, but looks like it didn't happen! Waiting's no fun, is it?!

Best...............Steve

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Cynthia D on 3/31/01 at 10:51 (043136)

Hi Rose: I may not be the best person for you to hear from but I think it will help you mentally and plan-wise. I still am extremely optomistic that ESWT will be a success for me but like you I have been very impatient with my healing. I read here about patients running up and down malls the night of their treatments, but I was in a wheelchair!! Of course, I had both feet done at the same time, too.

I will be at the seven week mark next Monday. I certainly have had better days, but I'm not back to sports yet, or shopping, etc. even still. I went to a local doc here yesterday, even though I would have wanted to be seen by Dr. Z. in NJ, for an evaluation of my recovery (he's too far). They put me on a 5 day steriod treatment to jump-start some pain relief and I was told to stay off my feet totally and to ice every 20 minutes.

I'm really hoping that you and Steve (can I call you Uncle Steve, too?), have a much faster recovery time than I have had, but I'm taking the time to tell you this because I hope it will be helpful to give you the insight to have patience! When you do feel better, please take it easy because your feet have been through a lot! Best wishes.

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Dr. Zuckerman on 3/31/01 at 11:34 (043141)

Hi,

Glad that you went for the treatment. From my conversations with Heidi, I would love to have Heidi working at my office. I like her name alot also.

I have treated and had patients get immediate relief, no relief then six weeks or more good relief. The ones that get the complete one shot relief are the ones that think I am G-d. I sure wish there was a way to increase the quick response that does occur in about 30-40% of the pateints. There is a pateint that I recall,her name is Heather Cox from Nebraski, who had no relief at al then into the eight weeks 70-80% reduction in pain. I did a second treatment within the last month. Take a look at her posts I believe you could e-mail her. We have had patients with failed surgery get quick relief. I have patients post one year pain free. Then there are patients that nothing happens period no matter how many or how high the treatment mj/mm2 is used.

So i guess if no relief, you will have to give it time to see just what does happen. I have no way at this point to predict who will be gone from pain and who won't .

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Rose L on 3/31/01 at hrmin (043151)

Thank you Cynthia and Steve for your responses regarding healing time after ESWT. Waiting is no fun, that's for sure, but I would truly be willing to wait many months quite patiently as long as I could know for sure that this affliction will someday be gone - or at least dramatically improved. I've never had a chronic condition in my life and the thought of never again hiking in the woods or strolling along the seashore makes me weep! Going through this ordeal (concurrently with a personal tragedy in my life) has however, taught me a lot about inner strength, the world doesn't stop for my grief, true gratitude for all the blessings I do have, etc....but please, please...I'm not ready to give up the simple pleasures mentioned above. I even miss grocery shopping!(just kidding). Thank you both for your kindness in responding to my post. Let's communicate again.
Best wishes, Rose.

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Rose L on 3/31/01 at hrmin (043152)

Dear Dr. Zuckerman,

Thank you for responding regarding healing times. Heidi is a beautiful person. She thinks the world of you too. I hope you guys get to meet someday. Heidi uses as you probably know the Sonocur. I had four treatments each a day apart. She used ultrasound to lock in what she considered to be the right location based on what I was feeling (pain!) and what she was seeing on the ultrasound, then upped the level as I could tolerate - no injection. A lot of time was spend in the arch area (I've experienced very little of the classic heel pain...more further up in the arches).

I know you can't predict the outcome for any of us, but could you share with me your opinion of the sonocur vs. the orbasone you use. Heidi will not be offended - I told her I'm going to continue to research this until I find a cure! Do some people not have success with one ESWT technique, then go on to respond to another machine/technique?

Your time is most respecfully appreciated!. P.S. I've been a California girl since age 10, but my mom was born in New Jersey and I was born in New York, so I feel a kind of kinship with you East-Coasters.

Sincerely, Rose Cahn Lynch

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Dr. Zuckerman on 3/31/01 at 13:32 (043153)

I believe that when I first read about ESWT on this board there was a Dr Parson's who first had Dornier's ESWT epos in Canada without relief, then he went to the ossatron where he had relief. I will have to go back to the old doctor's section on this web site to make sure that I am correct about this.

I have a one patients that was from the orginial ossatron group from this board. He had one ossatron , one orbasone from Dr Weil and one from Dr. Z.

I will have to check to see what his present status is.

Now the soncur is a low energy machine . I have never used the machine . I will give you some stats from the Musculoskeletal Shockwave Therapy book, on this machine. Three sections at 1,000 pulses achieved good or very good results in 73% of the cases. Treatment protocol varied from daily applicaton to treatment with two weeks intervalsus using a total of 3,000
6,000 pulses. This was a study of 55 heels.

I hope that this is very helpful.

Dr. Z

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Cynthia D on 3/31/01 at 14:20 (043159)

Hi Rose, I'm typing this looking out on the beautiful Gulf of Mexico. I just walked on the beach! With sneakers with orthotics, and CRUTCHES!! HAHA. I should say I walked TOa chair on the beach, not actually along it. I do long for the days of a long stroll, picking up shells, etc.

I really understand what you are going through. I haven't been in a grocery story since JANUARY!! I have a very understanding husband and a sometimes babysitter who shop for us, and sometimes I shop on line. There is a motorized scooter at my favorite store back home, and I'm going to go use it when we get back, and my pride be dam__ed. I miss picking out whatever I want desperately!!

Your friend in patience, Cynthia

And Dr. Z, it would be interesting to see if multiple techniques offer more results, so keep us posted.

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

john h on 3/31/01 at 18:33 (043173)

rose: i have had two treatments of ESWT and it was between 8-12 weeks before improvement begin.

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Cynthia D on 3/31/01 at 22:57 (043192)

John, really!!!! Really? That's the most encouraging thing I could have read tonight being that you are now at a 1.5 pain level!! Between weeks 8-12? Sounds like heaven to me right now at week 7 1/2!! I read in another post tonight that you are quite the 'Gym Jock' - so was I !! And I hope to be again soon!!! Thanks so much for telling us that! And maybe I don't have to hang off a helicopter rudder to get better?

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Rose L on 4/02/01 at hrmin (043362)

Hi, Steve...
Thanks again for responding to my message reg. having had ESWT in Canada - last treatment of my four in one week being last Sunday, March 25. Since we're both in the same approximate time frame, it would be interesting to keep track of progress. Do you mind sharing with me your symptoms?...this would help determine if our cases are in any way comparable?

I've had pf in both feet for 16 months, my pain was more in the arches (very high on a long narrow foot) and a general sorness to the touch over the whole sole of my foot. Right foot much worse, aches when not elevated. Heel pain was not the main complaint, although if I tried to put weight on my feet w/out the Birkenstocks or shoes w/ orthotic, everything hurt! This has been extremely debilitating. I was doing a fair amount of walking around the house on the first 3-4 days post ESWT, then my pain got worse, so I'm walking VERY little (I have a home office and am self-employed, luckily). If anyone else is in the same approximate time-frame or has had the same general complaints, I'd love to hear from you. I know I shouldn't be obsessing about the outcome (I will not obsess...I will not obsess...I will not obsess - just kidding) Thanks, Rose

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Rose L on 4/02/01 at hrmin (043368)

Cynthia - thanks again for responding to my 'ESWT Canadian style' as 'your friend in patience' Have you recently had ESWT? How long ago and how are you doing? Let me know! Good luck. Rose, your impatient friend in patience.

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Steve P on 3/31/01 at 09:54 (043131)

Hi Rose. I had my first ESWT 4 days ago from Dr. Z, so we're on the same schedule. I also have bilateral PF (1 year); he only treated one foot this first time. So I'll be back at least once for the other foot & maybe more for repeat treatments. I'm only 2 hours from Dr. Z.

Like you, I have experienced no change since ESWT, but Dr. Z says this is normal. He says that 6 to 12 weeks post-ESWT is the important window for improvement. Interesting that Heidi also mentioned 6 weeks.

I know you & I were both hoping for something immediate, but looks like it didn't happen! Waiting's no fun, is it?!

Best...............Steve

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Cynthia D on 3/31/01 at 10:51 (043136)

Hi Rose: I may not be the best person for you to hear from but I think it will help you mentally and plan-wise. I still am extremely optomistic that ESWT will be a success for me but like you I have been very impatient with my healing. I read here about patients running up and down malls the night of their treatments, but I was in a wheelchair!! Of course, I had both feet done at the same time, too.

I will be at the seven week mark next Monday. I certainly have had better days, but I'm not back to sports yet, or shopping, etc. even still. I went to a local doc here yesterday, even though I would have wanted to be seen by Dr. Z. in NJ, for an evaluation of my recovery (he's too far). They put me on a 5 day steriod treatment to jump-start some pain relief and I was told to stay off my feet totally and to ice every 20 minutes.

I'm really hoping that you and Steve (can I call you Uncle Steve, too?), have a much faster recovery time than I have had, but I'm taking the time to tell you this because I hope it will be helpful to give you the insight to have patience! When you do feel better, please take it easy because your feet have been through a lot! Best wishes.

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Dr. Zuckerman on 3/31/01 at 11:34 (043141)

Hi,

Glad that you went for the treatment. From my conversations with Heidi, I would love to have Heidi working at my office. I like her name alot also.

I have treated and had patients get immediate relief, no relief then six weeks or more good relief. The ones that get the complete one shot relief are the ones that think I am G-d. I sure wish there was a way to increase the quick response that does occur in about 30-40% of the pateints. There is a pateint that I recall,her name is Heather Cox from Nebraski, who had no relief at al then into the eight weeks 70-80% reduction in pain. I did a second treatment within the last month. Take a look at her posts I believe you could e-mail her. We have had patients with failed surgery get quick relief. I have patients post one year pain free. Then there are patients that nothing happens period no matter how many or how high the treatment mj/mm2 is used.

So i guess if no relief, you will have to give it time to see just what does happen. I have no way at this point to predict who will be gone from pain and who won't .

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Rose L on 3/31/01 at hrmin (043151)

Thank you Cynthia and Steve for your responses regarding healing time after ESWT. Waiting is no fun, that's for sure, but I would truly be willing to wait many months quite patiently as long as I could know for sure that this affliction will someday be gone - or at least dramatically improved. I've never had a chronic condition in my life and the thought of never again hiking in the woods or strolling along the seashore makes me weep! Going through this ordeal (concurrently with a personal tragedy in my life) has however, taught me a lot about inner strength, the world doesn't stop for my grief, true gratitude for all the blessings I do have, etc....but please, please...I'm not ready to give up the simple pleasures mentioned above. I even miss grocery shopping!(just kidding). Thank you both for your kindness in responding to my post. Let's communicate again.
Best wishes, Rose.

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Rose L on 3/31/01 at hrmin (043152)

Dear Dr. Zuckerman,

Thank you for responding regarding healing times. Heidi is a beautiful person. She thinks the world of you too. I hope you guys get to meet someday. Heidi uses as you probably know the Sonocur. I had four treatments each a day apart. She used ultrasound to lock in what she considered to be the right location based on what I was feeling (pain!) and what she was seeing on the ultrasound, then upped the level as I could tolerate - no injection. A lot of time was spend in the arch area (I've experienced very little of the classic heel pain...more further up in the arches).

I know you can't predict the outcome for any of us, but could you share with me your opinion of the sonocur vs. the orbasone you use. Heidi will not be offended - I told her I'm going to continue to research this until I find a cure! Do some people not have success with one ESWT technique, then go on to respond to another machine/technique?

Your time is most respecfully appreciated!. P.S. I've been a California girl since age 10, but my mom was born in New Jersey and I was born in New York, so I feel a kind of kinship with you East-Coasters.

Sincerely, Rose Cahn Lynch

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Dr. Zuckerman on 3/31/01 at 13:32 (043153)

I believe that when I first read about ESWT on this board there was a Dr Parson's who first had Dornier's ESWT epos in Canada without relief, then he went to the ossatron where he had relief. I will have to go back to the old doctor's section on this web site to make sure that I am correct about this.

I have a one patients that was from the orginial ossatron group from this board. He had one ossatron , one orbasone from Dr Weil and one from Dr. Z.

I will have to check to see what his present status is.

Now the soncur is a low energy machine . I have never used the machine . I will give you some stats from the Musculoskeletal Shockwave Therapy book, on this machine. Three sections at 1,000 pulses achieved good or very good results in 73% of the cases. Treatment protocol varied from daily applicaton to treatment with two weeks intervalsus using a total of 3,000
6,000 pulses. This was a study of 55 heels.

I hope that this is very helpful.

Dr. Z

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Cynthia D on 3/31/01 at 14:20 (043159)

Hi Rose, I'm typing this looking out on the beautiful Gulf of Mexico. I just walked on the beach! With sneakers with orthotics, and CRUTCHES!! HAHA. I should say I walked TOa chair on the beach, not actually along it. I do long for the days of a long stroll, picking up shells, etc.

I really understand what you are going through. I haven't been in a grocery story since JANUARY!! I have a very understanding husband and a sometimes babysitter who shop for us, and sometimes I shop on line. There is a motorized scooter at my favorite store back home, and I'm going to go use it when we get back, and my pride be dam__ed. I miss picking out whatever I want desperately!!

Your friend in patience, Cynthia

And Dr. Z, it would be interesting to see if multiple techniques offer more results, so keep us posted.

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

john h on 3/31/01 at 18:33 (043173)

rose: i have had two treatments of ESWT and it was between 8-12 weeks before improvement begin.

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Cynthia D on 3/31/01 at 22:57 (043192)

John, really!!!! Really? That's the most encouraging thing I could have read tonight being that you are now at a 1.5 pain level!! Between weeks 8-12? Sounds like heaven to me right now at week 7 1/2!! I read in another post tonight that you are quite the 'Gym Jock' - so was I !! And I hope to be again soon!!! Thanks so much for telling us that! And maybe I don't have to hang off a helicopter rudder to get better?

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Rose L on 4/02/01 at hrmin (043362)

Hi, Steve...
Thanks again for responding to my message reg. having had ESWT in Canada - last treatment of my four in one week being last Sunday, March 25. Since we're both in the same approximate time frame, it would be interesting to keep track of progress. Do you mind sharing with me your symptoms?...this would help determine if our cases are in any way comparable?

I've had pf in both feet for 16 months, my pain was more in the arches (very high on a long narrow foot) and a general sorness to the touch over the whole sole of my foot. Right foot much worse, aches when not elevated. Heel pain was not the main complaint, although if I tried to put weight on my feet w/out the Birkenstocks or shoes w/ orthotic, everything hurt! This has been extremely debilitating. I was doing a fair amount of walking around the house on the first 3-4 days post ESWT, then my pain got worse, so I'm walking VERY little (I have a home office and am self-employed, luckily). If anyone else is in the same approximate time-frame or has had the same general complaints, I'd love to hear from you. I know I shouldn't be obsessing about the outcome (I will not obsess...I will not obsess...I will not obsess - just kidding) Thanks, Rose

Re: Five Days post ESWT - Canadian style!

Rose L on 4/02/01 at hrmin (043368)

Cynthia - thanks again for responding to my 'ESWT Canadian style' as 'your friend in patience' Have you recently had ESWT? How long ago and how are you doing? Let me know! Good luck. Rose, your impatient friend in patience.