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Outa Time

Posted by Scott R on 4/18/01 at 13:14 (044986)

I'm sorry everyone, I'm 'out of time' this week so to speak and I can't deal with ESWT issues anymore. ESWT doesn't pay anything, and I need to concentrate on topics that do provide compensation. As for those who were aware that HealthTronics was supposed to advertise on heelspurs.com, they keep putting it on the back burner, so they might not ever advertise.

Re: Outa Time

Pauline on 4/18/01 at 13:30 (044989)

Scott,
That's too bad you could use the money.

Re: Outa Time

Pauline on 4/18/01 at 13:50 (044992)

Scott,
Out of curiousity, in order to post are the Doctors required to compensate you. I know we don't pay you. It must be costly to keep this up and it would have been nice to land the healthronics account.

Re: Outa Time

Scott R on 4/18/01 at 17:28 (045007)

No, the doctors here in our message board do not pay anything to post or for the links. As a point of interest, I've had 5 complaints about Kim including another set that claims they will no longer return to the message board because of her attacks. The general complaint is that they come here for fnu and enlightenment and the nastiness is just too much. I do not yet know if Dr. Z will be one of those who do not return or post for a while.

Re: Outa Time

Dr. Zuckerman on 4/18/01 at 19:08 (045016)

Come on Scott did you think that I would leave that easy. I am back and more ready to help pf pain then ever.

DR ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Re: Just curious, Who are these Kim-haters?

Kim B. on 4/19/01 at 01:46 (045051)

If people are going to attack my character in such a way, shouldn't I at least get to know who they are?

Me, and several people that share the same point of view on these topics, could have been writing you during all this time also, but we took the mature approach and decided to handle it ourselves.

I welcome this incredibly large group of people to make themselves known to me. Why are they hiding behind you? I can guess who two of them are, but I had no idea that many people were displeased with my contributions.

Kim

Re: Just curious, Who are these Kim-haters?

Scott R on 4/19/01 at 06:51 (045061)

I generally consider email private, so I will not disclose who they are. It's bad netiquette to discuss private email. I only violate this rule when it's a stranger and I want a friend to see the email. I have a responsibility and desire to treat everyone from the message board the same.

OK, let's move on. We know we're making progress when we're no longer discussing the message board itself. heelspurs.com's main topic should not be heelspurs.com!

Re: To Kim and Scott No haters needed here.

Pauline on 4/19/01 at 10:11 (045077)

God, Kim and Scott
I hope there are not any Kim haters out there. After looking back into
older postings I realize that you have had concerns for some time and it seems to me if you have them then the forum was the correct place to bring your questions for answers.

I will admit that it is difficult to bring up a subject that is so near and dear to Dr. Z, but maybe if the other doctors that were using the Orbasone would start posting and adding to Scotts list the questions you ask would be seen in a different light and definately not so negative.

When the OssaTron is discussed there are several sites and doctors involved so it is easy to discuss. The Orbasone because it's only one
persons involvement seems to make it a touchy subject.

All in all, I think everyone posting should continue to be fair and realize that controversy is an 'ok' part of life. I applaud you for having the courage to ask the 'hard' questions and to seek the answers you need.

I remember from my history books there was a time in Europe when not enough questions were asked, people couldn't or wouldn't ask them and a lot of innocent people suffered.

Never Again, Never Forget---- If we never have the courage to ask the 'hard' questions, seek the truth, or take a stand on what we believe is right then what example are we setting for future generations.

I would say continue to ask your questions until you are comfortable in your own mine and heart with the answers.

Re: Pauline --- i asked you a "hard question" yesterday (still on the board). Why didn't you answer? eom

Steve P on 4/19/01 at 16:20 (045112)

.

Re: To Steve

Pauline on 4/19/01 at 17:53 (045119)

No time to answer questions that need no response. I've received a second confirmation today from an independent source outside the FDA which confirms what has been said all along. Researchers always confirm their work. There is NO, NONE, and Never Was FDA approval for Norlands Orbasone Device. Indeed what Scott said the other day may be true Dr.Z could be going out on a limb. Have you noticed the silence of the other Drs who have the Orbasone.

Re: Why aren't you answering my question? I'll re-state it here.................

Steve P on 4/19/01 at 18:13 (045120)

Pauline ---- My question from yesterday was:

'What evidence do you have that the Orbasone has ever harmed anyone?'

My question has nothing to do with FDA status or any other status. I simply want you to tell me who has ever been injured by this machine. If you don't know of anyone, say so.

Thanks

Re: To Steve

Nancy N on 4/19/01 at 19:37 (045134)

I think I'm missing something here--where did we get the idea that every doctor who uses the Orbasone posts on (or even knows about) this board? Of couse there will be silence from them if they are not here. And after what's happened here in the past few days, I'm not sure that any doctor who hasn't posted here before would be too inspired to start.

Re: To Steve

Dr. Zuckerman on 4/19/01 at 19:39 (045136)

There are Orbaone doctors that did post in the beginning and some that just view the posting. I was warned by some doctors that my progress reporting was a good idea. I still think it is I am the only doctor that still does this.

Re: To Steve

Steve P on 4/19/01 at 20:45 (045153)

I agree, Nancy. I don't know where Pauline got that particular idea.

I'm trying to get her to simply answer my question, but I'm not sure she will.

Re: To All: re getting worse before getting better...

Cynthia D on 4/20/01 at 14:13 (045200)

Perhaps Pauline got the impression from all my whining about my pain post-Orbasone that it harmed me. It did harm me. That's apparently how the machine functions. It causes trauma to the insertion point, therefore forcing new blood, oxygen and healing. For me this phase was extremely painful, I was worse than Before Orbasone, and sometimes I used this board to ask for (and recieve) support during those dark days. There were days I even felt that the treatment would fail me, and maybe even stated that. I did feel that the treatment harmed me. But thank goodness, just like Dr. Zuckerman told me (BTW: I paid 'full price' for my treatment so I have no financial interest in praising this highly skilled, caring doctor), but like he told me, wait patiently to the 6-12 week mark, and lo and behold, I feel SO much better now, much better than before Orbasone. (10 weeks).

I really didn't want to get involved in this discussion, but some people here may be using my case as an example that this machine harms people. Based on some questions I answered on the days I was really low I could see how some readers would reach that conclusion. It did harm me, but it was temporary, I'm dancing on my old 'pain' grave today!!!! This treatment so far has been a success!!!!

I ran into a friend last night who had her heel spur removed, and in the process had a nerve severed. She has been in pain all up her leg for EIGHT years! This Orbasone treatment is really succeeding in safely healing people. I believe the doctors had a discussion on the doctor's board about getting worse before getting better....and their beliefs why this happens.

Re: To All: re getting worse before getting better...

Dr. Zuckerman on 4/20/01 at 14:57 (045205)

Hi Cynthia,

I am glad that you are doing great.

You are a case that has made me re-think the entire idea of high energy and low energy. So how could I have reduce your chance of the bad before good pain.

Some of the ways.

Only use low energy for the first visit.

Then if no reponse then increase the energy.

The problem is that using a local is a problem for you.

You are great case for the flip of the coin . You are a good case for the possibility of going to the ASC and sleeping and then one blast.

Or two trips to the ASC first one long low blast and it no relief then one high blast.

I really like to start with the low and move up to the high but you are someone who justs need the IV and the one blast.

Oh the other persone who would need the one blast with the IV would be Dr.
Z.

Sincerly yours,

Dr. Z

Re: To All: re getting worse before getting better...

Cynthia D on 4/20/01 at 15:32 (045208)

Your spelling has always amused me, but you said above, 'good pain'! I laughed out loud. Is there such a thing? I guess less pain is good pain, but NO pain is the best kind. I'm sure you meant 'no pain'!!!!!!

I have often thought (as I was recovering) that if I hadn't been such a chicken during treatment, that a higher blast would have been better, based on what I read by Dr. Reid's success with the stronger voltage on the Ossatron. I thought maybe the higher amount would have had a better result. But now that I'm on the other side of recovery for the most part, I think that you are doing exactly the right amount. You are the best judge of that. It would have been nice not having that period of several weeks of strong constant pain, but now that it's over, I could say that it was worth it! Maybe it's just that different patients have a different response to the trauma, and for me, the pain was high. Some report to you and here that they are better immediately. One thing for sure, is that the typical pf pain was gone from the first day. My feet hurt all over, not just at that critical point where I was zapped. The pain was more intense, so extreme even while sitting for a few weeks, but that awful walking around on steak knifes sensation was gone. So you are really getting at the source of pf, but I'm still puzzled why some get worse before getting better. Don't lose sleep over it, because IT WAS WORTH IT! Now when can I run and play tennis?

BTW, I refilled the Vioxx I begged for, but meanwhile, the pain never came back, so I never needed to take any!! So far, so good!

Re: To All: re getting worse before getting better...

DeniseA on 4/21/01 at hrmin (045279)

It's very nice of you to update people on your condition and tell the full story of your experience. I believe that is why people come here. To learn everything they can as they look for their solution.

When you are in the middle of anything painful it can be hard to be excited about the future possibilities. You are showing people that IF they do experience some increase in pain in the beginning just to hang in there. That can give them a lot of comfort to know it isn't unique to them and to stay positive.

Denise

Re: To All: re getting worse before getting better...

DR. Zuckerman on 4/21/01 at 16:18 (045297)

Hi,

I went back and read the 'good pain' I am not sure what I was talking about. I guess I meant no pain.

The point I am trying to make is that low energy multiple treatment may be the best way to avoid the bad before the NO pain situation.

It is possible that the bad pain is due to the high energy being too much for that specific individual. Now the only way to determine this is to go very low for the first treatment and see what happens . If no positive relief then increase the level and then see what happens. The bad before the no pain is rare but is real. I for one would like to think more about this approach. My canadian/european friends really like the low low energy for this reason. The only reason that I even use high energy is from what I been taught by the healthronics doc in Canada. So each and every day is a new day and learning. I think that low energy ESWT treatment will probaby be the treatment for everyone for the following reasons.

1. In office.
2 No needles
3 Can be very specific for each and every patient

Problems

1. Must have multiple treatments
2 Could be a travel problem for people.

Will be resolved when the companies such as Soncur and Dornier come to the market. and of course the orbasone which has the low and high energy ability.

Re: To All: re getting worse before getting better...

Donna SL on 4/21/01 at 17:25 (045302)

Dr Z.

That's basically what they are doing in the UK. with the Reflectron. When I talked to the UK HMT rep, he said they're using a lower power, and no
anesthesia. I mentioned that some people are having a lot of pain here after the treatment, and he seemed surprised. I didn't have a chance to ask him exactly how low of a power they use, or how many treatments they do, but he gave me the name of some practioners to call, but I haven't had a chance to do so yet.

Also, the cost is much less there. I couldn't believe they are only charging around a $225.00 to $350.00 (150 to 200 sterling) for the Reflectron. Do you think this is because the machine is cheaper in Europe? When I get more info, I'll let you know. Do you know if HMT is marketing the Reflectron here? It's probably very similar to the Orbasone, but has some type of ultra sound device added to it.

Donna

Re: To Z: re getting worse before getting better...

Pauline on 4/22/01 at 06:08 (045336)

Dr. Z,
That is exactly where I think the FDA required studies would be so important. Since we currently are not using any FDA low/high treatments here in the U.S. that are being run inaccordance with specific
predetermined protocol testing, it's difficult to make any accurate conclusions.

I think the jury is still very much out on this because there is not enough scientific data to prove anything. I do not think it is accurate to conclude results that lack scientific documentation.

With no manual and no serious U.S. testing , it appears obvious that Norland (MIP) has not yet determined what settings or how the treatment should be delivered to be the most safe and effective type of treatment. I think its great that you are being a pioneer of sorts using the Orbasone, but I honestly think that specific FDA testing is required here so that every doctor that will use the Orbasone will use it to achieve the most safe and effective results possible based on good old scientific
studies.

Re: To Z: re getting worse before getting better...

Dr. Zuckerman on 4/22/01 at 16:15 (045374)

Treatment protocols will improve thru the organizations such as the ISWT.
Discussion among doctors, one on one have always producted the best way to learn and improve patient care.

When I first started using the low then high approach a doctor via this board form Italy contacted me give me additional literature and confirmed that his clinic had been using the low -high approach for over five years.

This was one of my high point on this board. I had a doctor with much more experience reach out to me and even compliment me on my work. I have had some the most experienced and real poineers in ESWT reach out to me.

There are treating doctor out there that don't belong and don't even know about the ISWT. This is how treatments improve and patient care improved.

The FDA has it purpose. One isn't telling Doctors that they must do some many shocks and some many kv.

You know this by posting to Dr. Reid. Adding 500 pulses to the f2 area wasn't part of the FDA initial application . Each and every center has been uisng different treatment protocols.

Re: To All: re getting worse before getting better...

JudyS on 4/23/01 at 13:16 (045453)

Dr. Z - are there any 'low-energy vs. high-energy' study results from Europe?

Re: Outa Time

Carol on 4/23/01 at 13:38 (045460)

Scott, how can we help? I had ESWT done BECAUSE of this website, so they (HealthTronics, etc/) are being rewarded big time. At this point I have serious reservations about the treatment as I am not doing well, so I'd be very glad to write them, or even get a petition up for you so that you could get some compensastion.

Re: To All: re getting worse before getting better...

Dr. Zuckerman on 4/23/01 at 17:55 (045496)

Hi,

There are studies written in the European Shockwave textbook. Some are low, some are high. None are a combination.

Re: Outa Time

Pauline on 4/18/01 at 13:30 (044989)

Scott,
That's too bad you could use the money.

Re: Outa Time

Pauline on 4/18/01 at 13:50 (044992)

Scott,
Out of curiousity, in order to post are the Doctors required to compensate you. I know we don't pay you. It must be costly to keep this up and it would have been nice to land the healthronics account.

Re: Outa Time

Scott R on 4/18/01 at 17:28 (045007)

No, the doctors here in our message board do not pay anything to post or for the links. As a point of interest, I've had 5 complaints about Kim including another set that claims they will no longer return to the message board because of her attacks. The general complaint is that they come here for fnu and enlightenment and the nastiness is just too much. I do not yet know if Dr. Z will be one of those who do not return or post for a while.

Re: Outa Time

Dr. Zuckerman on 4/18/01 at 19:08 (045016)

Come on Scott did you think that I would leave that easy. I am back and more ready to help pf pain then ever.

DR ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Re: Just curious, Who are these Kim-haters?

Kim B. on 4/19/01 at 01:46 (045051)

If people are going to attack my character in such a way, shouldn't I at least get to know who they are?

Me, and several people that share the same point of view on these topics, could have been writing you during all this time also, but we took the mature approach and decided to handle it ourselves.

I welcome this incredibly large group of people to make themselves known to me. Why are they hiding behind you? I can guess who two of them are, but I had no idea that many people were displeased with my contributions.

Kim

Re: Just curious, Who are these Kim-haters?

Scott R on 4/19/01 at 06:51 (045061)

I generally consider email private, so I will not disclose who they are. It's bad netiquette to discuss private email. I only violate this rule when it's a stranger and I want a friend to see the email. I have a responsibility and desire to treat everyone from the message board the same.

OK, let's move on. We know we're making progress when we're no longer discussing the message board itself. heelspurs.com's main topic should not be heelspurs.com!

Re: To Kim and Scott No haters needed here.

Pauline on 4/19/01 at 10:11 (045077)

God, Kim and Scott
I hope there are not any Kim haters out there. After looking back into
older postings I realize that you have had concerns for some time and it seems to me if you have them then the forum was the correct place to bring your questions for answers.

I will admit that it is difficult to bring up a subject that is so near and dear to Dr. Z, but maybe if the other doctors that were using the Orbasone would start posting and adding to Scotts list the questions you ask would be seen in a different light and definately not so negative.

When the OssaTron is discussed there are several sites and doctors involved so it is easy to discuss. The Orbasone because it's only one
persons involvement seems to make it a touchy subject.

All in all, I think everyone posting should continue to be fair and realize that controversy is an 'ok' part of life. I applaud you for having the courage to ask the 'hard' questions and to seek the answers you need.

I remember from my history books there was a time in Europe when not enough questions were asked, people couldn't or wouldn't ask them and a lot of innocent people suffered.

Never Again, Never Forget---- If we never have the courage to ask the 'hard' questions, seek the truth, or take a stand on what we believe is right then what example are we setting for future generations.

I would say continue to ask your questions until you are comfortable in your own mine and heart with the answers.

Re: Pauline --- i asked you a "hard question" yesterday (still on the board). Why didn't you answer? eom

Steve P on 4/19/01 at 16:20 (045112)

.

Re: To Steve

Pauline on 4/19/01 at 17:53 (045119)

No time to answer questions that need no response. I've received a second confirmation today from an independent source outside the FDA which confirms what has been said all along. Researchers always confirm their work. There is NO, NONE, and Never Was FDA approval for Norlands Orbasone Device. Indeed what Scott said the other day may be true Dr.Z could be going out on a limb. Have you noticed the silence of the other Drs who have the Orbasone.

Re: Why aren't you answering my question? I'll re-state it here.................

Steve P on 4/19/01 at 18:13 (045120)

Pauline ---- My question from yesterday was:

'What evidence do you have that the Orbasone has ever harmed anyone?'

My question has nothing to do with FDA status or any other status. I simply want you to tell me who has ever been injured by this machine. If you don't know of anyone, say so.

Thanks

Re: To Steve

Nancy N on 4/19/01 at 19:37 (045134)

I think I'm missing something here--where did we get the idea that every doctor who uses the Orbasone posts on (or even knows about) this board? Of couse there will be silence from them if they are not here. And after what's happened here in the past few days, I'm not sure that any doctor who hasn't posted here before would be too inspired to start.

Re: To Steve

Dr. Zuckerman on 4/19/01 at 19:39 (045136)

There are Orbaone doctors that did post in the beginning and some that just view the posting. I was warned by some doctors that my progress reporting was a good idea. I still think it is I am the only doctor that still does this.

Re: To Steve

Steve P on 4/19/01 at 20:45 (045153)

I agree, Nancy. I don't know where Pauline got that particular idea.

I'm trying to get her to simply answer my question, but I'm not sure she will.

Re: To All: re getting worse before getting better...

Cynthia D on 4/20/01 at 14:13 (045200)

Perhaps Pauline got the impression from all my whining about my pain post-Orbasone that it harmed me. It did harm me. That's apparently how the machine functions. It causes trauma to the insertion point, therefore forcing new blood, oxygen and healing. For me this phase was extremely painful, I was worse than Before Orbasone, and sometimes I used this board to ask for (and recieve) support during those dark days. There were days I even felt that the treatment would fail me, and maybe even stated that. I did feel that the treatment harmed me. But thank goodness, just like Dr. Zuckerman told me (BTW: I paid 'full price' for my treatment so I have no financial interest in praising this highly skilled, caring doctor), but like he told me, wait patiently to the 6-12 week mark, and lo and behold, I feel SO much better now, much better than before Orbasone. (10 weeks).

I really didn't want to get involved in this discussion, but some people here may be using my case as an example that this machine harms people. Based on some questions I answered on the days I was really low I could see how some readers would reach that conclusion. It did harm me, but it was temporary, I'm dancing on my old 'pain' grave today!!!! This treatment so far has been a success!!!!

I ran into a friend last night who had her heel spur removed, and in the process had a nerve severed. She has been in pain all up her leg for EIGHT years! This Orbasone treatment is really succeeding in safely healing people. I believe the doctors had a discussion on the doctor's board about getting worse before getting better....and their beliefs why this happens.

Re: To All: re getting worse before getting better...

Dr. Zuckerman on 4/20/01 at 14:57 (045205)

Hi Cynthia,

I am glad that you are doing great.

You are a case that has made me re-think the entire idea of high energy and low energy. So how could I have reduce your chance of the bad before good pain.

Some of the ways.

Only use low energy for the first visit.

Then if no reponse then increase the energy.

The problem is that using a local is a problem for you.

You are great case for the flip of the coin . You are a good case for the possibility of going to the ASC and sleeping and then one blast.

Or two trips to the ASC first one long low blast and it no relief then one high blast.

I really like to start with the low and move up to the high but you are someone who justs need the IV and the one blast.

Oh the other persone who would need the one blast with the IV would be Dr.
Z.

Sincerly yours,

Dr. Z

Re: To All: re getting worse before getting better...

Cynthia D on 4/20/01 at 15:32 (045208)

Your spelling has always amused me, but you said above, 'good pain'! I laughed out loud. Is there such a thing? I guess less pain is good pain, but NO pain is the best kind. I'm sure you meant 'no pain'!!!!!!

I have often thought (as I was recovering) that if I hadn't been such a chicken during treatment, that a higher blast would have been better, based on what I read by Dr. Reid's success with the stronger voltage on the Ossatron. I thought maybe the higher amount would have had a better result. But now that I'm on the other side of recovery for the most part, I think that you are doing exactly the right amount. You are the best judge of that. It would have been nice not having that period of several weeks of strong constant pain, but now that it's over, I could say that it was worth it! Maybe it's just that different patients have a different response to the trauma, and for me, the pain was high. Some report to you and here that they are better immediately. One thing for sure, is that the typical pf pain was gone from the first day. My feet hurt all over, not just at that critical point where I was zapped. The pain was more intense, so extreme even while sitting for a few weeks, but that awful walking around on steak knifes sensation was gone. So you are really getting at the source of pf, but I'm still puzzled why some get worse before getting better. Don't lose sleep over it, because IT WAS WORTH IT! Now when can I run and play tennis?

BTW, I refilled the Vioxx I begged for, but meanwhile, the pain never came back, so I never needed to take any!! So far, so good!

Re: To All: re getting worse before getting better...

DeniseA on 4/21/01 at hrmin (045279)

It's very nice of you to update people on your condition and tell the full story of your experience. I believe that is why people come here. To learn everything they can as they look for their solution.

When you are in the middle of anything painful it can be hard to be excited about the future possibilities. You are showing people that IF they do experience some increase in pain in the beginning just to hang in there. That can give them a lot of comfort to know it isn't unique to them and to stay positive.

Denise

Re: To All: re getting worse before getting better...

DR. Zuckerman on 4/21/01 at 16:18 (045297)

Hi,

I went back and read the 'good pain' I am not sure what I was talking about. I guess I meant no pain.

The point I am trying to make is that low energy multiple treatment may be the best way to avoid the bad before the NO pain situation.

It is possible that the bad pain is due to the high energy being too much for that specific individual. Now the only way to determine this is to go very low for the first treatment and see what happens . If no positive relief then increase the level and then see what happens. The bad before the no pain is rare but is real. I for one would like to think more about this approach. My canadian/european friends really like the low low energy for this reason. The only reason that I even use high energy is from what I been taught by the healthronics doc in Canada. So each and every day is a new day and learning. I think that low energy ESWT treatment will probaby be the treatment for everyone for the following reasons.

1. In office.
2 No needles
3 Can be very specific for each and every patient

Problems

1. Must have multiple treatments
2 Could be a travel problem for people.

Will be resolved when the companies such as Soncur and Dornier come to the market. and of course the orbasone which has the low and high energy ability.

Re: To All: re getting worse before getting better...

Donna SL on 4/21/01 at 17:25 (045302)

Dr Z.

That's basically what they are doing in the UK. with the Reflectron. When I talked to the UK HMT rep, he said they're using a lower power, and no
anesthesia. I mentioned that some people are having a lot of pain here after the treatment, and he seemed surprised. I didn't have a chance to ask him exactly how low of a power they use, or how many treatments they do, but he gave me the name of some practioners to call, but I haven't had a chance to do so yet.

Also, the cost is much less there. I couldn't believe they are only charging around a $225.00 to $350.00 (150 to 200 sterling) for the Reflectron. Do you think this is because the machine is cheaper in Europe? When I get more info, I'll let you know. Do you know if HMT is marketing the Reflectron here? It's probably very similar to the Orbasone, but has some type of ultra sound device added to it.

Donna

Re: To Z: re getting worse before getting better...

Pauline on 4/22/01 at 06:08 (045336)

Dr. Z,
That is exactly where I think the FDA required studies would be so important. Since we currently are not using any FDA low/high treatments here in the U.S. that are being run inaccordance with specific
predetermined protocol testing, it's difficult to make any accurate conclusions.

I think the jury is still very much out on this because there is not enough scientific data to prove anything. I do not think it is accurate to conclude results that lack scientific documentation.

With no manual and no serious U.S. testing , it appears obvious that Norland (MIP) has not yet determined what settings or how the treatment should be delivered to be the most safe and effective type of treatment. I think its great that you are being a pioneer of sorts using the Orbasone, but I honestly think that specific FDA testing is required here so that every doctor that will use the Orbasone will use it to achieve the most safe and effective results possible based on good old scientific
studies.

Re: To Z: re getting worse before getting better...

Dr. Zuckerman on 4/22/01 at 16:15 (045374)

Treatment protocols will improve thru the organizations such as the ISWT.
Discussion among doctors, one on one have always producted the best way to learn and improve patient care.

When I first started using the low then high approach a doctor via this board form Italy contacted me give me additional literature and confirmed that his clinic had been using the low -high approach for over five years.

This was one of my high point on this board. I had a doctor with much more experience reach out to me and even compliment me on my work. I have had some the most experienced and real poineers in ESWT reach out to me.

There are treating doctor out there that don't belong and don't even know about the ISWT. This is how treatments improve and patient care improved.

The FDA has it purpose. One isn't telling Doctors that they must do some many shocks and some many kv.

You know this by posting to Dr. Reid. Adding 500 pulses to the f2 area wasn't part of the FDA initial application . Each and every center has been uisng different treatment protocols.

Re: To All: re getting worse before getting better...

JudyS on 4/23/01 at 13:16 (045453)

Dr. Z - are there any 'low-energy vs. high-energy' study results from Europe?

Re: Outa Time

Carol on 4/23/01 at 13:38 (045460)

Scott, how can we help? I had ESWT done BECAUSE of this website, so they (HealthTronics, etc/) are being rewarded big time. At this point I have serious reservations about the treatment as I am not doing well, so I'd be very glad to write them, or even get a petition up for you so that you could get some compensastion.

Re: To All: re getting worse before getting better...

Dr. Zuckerman on 4/23/01 at 17:55 (045496)

Hi,

There are studies written in the European Shockwave textbook. Some are low, some are high. None are a combination.