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Dr. Z competitor complains about Pauline

Posted by Scott R on 4/26/01 at 07:32 (045787)

I haven't been reading the board this week, but you know something wrong when an ESWT competitor of Dr Z complains that Pauline is hurting the message board. Who wants to be the referee? I don't have time.

Re: Dr. Z competitor complains about Pauline

john h on 4/26/01 at 10:35 (045806)

The doctors on this board who have perfored ESWT, regardless of what machine, are the only true 'Experts' on this subject. They like the hundreds of Doctors in Europe who have been studing and performing ESWT for many years do not agree on all aspects of how to treat ESWT or which machine if any is better than another. Those of us who have had ESWT can testify to what it feels like and what results we achieved with abolute certainity. I am certain ESWT helped me some. I am certain that the shockwaves applied to my foot felt very powerful to me.

As lay people we should not give medical advice but express our thoughts and experiences with various remedies. I should never say to someone try ESWT but I would certaily suggest they consider and investigate it. I would not say to anyone that either the Ossatron,Orbasone,or Sonnocur is better than the other. We should all refrain from making personal criticisms of anyone. Some people have found relief in ways that may make no sense to the rest of us but if it worked for them i appreciate what they have to offer.

As for Dr Zuckerman i have met him twice and talked to him on the phone numerous times so i can clearly say from my experience that to me he is a sincere person who will spend much more time with you than the average doctor and seems very enthused about the subject of feet and ESWT. It is very expensive to fly from Little Rock to New Jersey and spend the night and i do not make these trips because I like Dr. Zukerman but because I think I am getting the best treatment there. Dallas,ST Louis, and San Antonio are a lot closer and offer the same machine. He has given a number of free treatments to members of this board. You could call that Marketing but knowning him I think he was simply trying to help people. Dr Zuckerman like all doctors is trying to make money and that is the American way. I have not met the other doctors who post but i very much appreciate them taking time to do so and suspect they are nice and honorable people.By the way my treatments with Dr Zuckerman are not FREE. I do pay.

Wasn't one of the things we all learned in kindergarten that we needed to know was 'Be Nice'?

Re: Dr. Z competitor complains about Pauline

Kim B. on 4/26/01 at hrmin (045811)

Scott,

I assume this competitor also is a Doctor (maybe even a Podiatrist) that uses the Orbasone. So, they are more than competitors, they are 'Friendly Competitors.' While they compete for the market share, they have a common interest in how the Orbasone is viewed by the public. Yes, Pauline comes down a bit hard on the Orbasone machine sometimes. I suspect that is because, like me, it seems better to attack an inatimate machine than a physical human being who has feelings. I just recenlty realized this about myself.

I don't think we need a referee. That is like opening the door for more complaints to 'come on in!'. Some here have a secret agenda to have myself and Paula banned from the board, and they obviously feel that the more they complain, the sooner that will happen. It isn't about right or wrong anymore, it's about 'winning' this heated debate. So sad. This is an adult forum about some very serious issues. Things are going to get heated from time to time. I have been offended many times here lately, but I've accepted my portion of responsibility and blown off the rest. As you will note Scott, I haven't emailed you to bring your attentions to every transgression that came my way. I really have more respect for your time. It's not that I haven't wanted to, it's that it seems immature to whine to you about something that we voluntarilly take part in. That is one of my reasons anyway.

If we must have one, I vote for Wendyn as a referee. She's the most level headed and unbiasied. Every other regular here seems to be hardlined on one side of the debate or another.

I think this could be resolved if some ground rules were set in place to satisfy both sides of this controversies. Say each side gets to list five things they would like to changed re: how this board is used by the lay men and doctors who use it. This thought is just off the top of my head, and has not been thought through. Maybe some others will have a better idea. I sense we need a way to bridge the differences without the ongoing posting war. My idea may go straight in to the dumper, just because it was suggested by me. Wouldn't suprise me one bit. I wonder how many people here are interested in finding a way to let eveyone's concerns be taken into consideration, instead of going by a dictatorship mentallity?

My words will as ususal be scruitnized to the hilt, so let me post what will be my standard diclaimer; 'These are simply MY opinions, based on what I have read, learned and gatherered over 2 years of spending time at this site. That's all they are, nothing more.'

Kim B.

Re: All this arguing is so counterproductive for our Board. Needs to stop.

Beverly on 4/26/01 at 11:27 (045812)

I agree with John that we as patients we would do well to report on our maladies and how we have attempted to heal them. From patients, I want to hear about treatments they have tried, what worked for them and what didn't work. What would they do again? What treatment was so miserable they wouldn't send their worst enemy to seek ? What was so wonderful that they have a new lease on life?

My own participation on the EWST board has focused on two things:
question asking of doctors and patients who have experienced EWST, because I am a potential seeker of EWST and well wishes for EWST patients in recovery. I've also noted when I see a newspaper article about EWST.

I have UTTERLY NO INTEREST in hearing opinions about EWST from nonmedical persons who have not experienced EWST as patients.

This recent line of posts on the EWST board has turned into a war zone.
If I were a newbie and came here, I'd never come back.

If we were in the real world and not on cyberspace, I would say that at this point a professional conflict interventionist needs to step in to mediate. Since we are in cyberspace, the only thing I as a patient can do is 'vote with my fingers.' In other words, I do not plan to respond to further arguments on the pros and cons of EWST, no matter who iniates the post. If more of us did that, eventually this line of dialogue would stop, because it is no fun to have an argument if no one will talk back.
It really does not matter who is right and who is wrong. To me, what matters is that this whole topic has been worn into the ground. Sometimes the only solution is to agree to disagree and move onto something else.

This is the last post I plan to make on this topic.
Thank you,
Beverly

Re: Dr. Z competitor complains about Pauline

Dr. Zuckerman on 4/26/01 at 11:43 (045816)

I have no problem with a board format change. I have always told Scott that I will change when the board wants change. The original purpose for this board is to help foot pain suffering. I am still a quest and will adopt changes that the majority on this board. Scott has been told this.

By the way how much to buy the message board Scott. A lease is also another good idea.

Re: Dr. want to resolve this the olive branch is out

Dr. Zuckerman on 4/26/01 at 11:57 (045822)

First of all lets put the orbasone machine aside . I really think that this can be resolved either by the group or the FDA is going to do this anyway in the near future I hope.

Lets stay on the Dr. Z marketing on this board topic It is my understanding that the free lotto and the Blue Light special were really off the wall in your eyes.

Well we could just remove this or have Scott always take a look at some of my ideas before I just spring them on the board. How does that sound.

Another area that may be offensive is my offering of a video and information packet via Denise . I don't agree with this being offense but let place the cards on the table. I don't know how this is going to be handled because it does take alot of time to explain to posters this and that when they ask about ESWT . I just want to get a feel for this NOW

If there is any thing else then just e-mail Dr. Z at footcare@home.com and we can discuss this off the board. I have always been willing to disuces this with Kim or Pauline over the phone but they never took Dr. Z up on the collect call offer. Maybe I was too forward. So just e-mail Dr. Z

This can be worked out trust me.

Anyway we can resolve this and I see a very bright future for Heelspur.com

Thanks you for readin this

Dr. Z

Re: All this arguing is so counterproductive for our Board. Needs to stop.

Barbara TX on 4/26/01 at 13:24 (045836)

Beverly - I loved your post... there is a lot of honesty in it. But what happens when someone slanders someone else? Don't you have to answer that sort of thing with factual information? That is the position these mean-spirited posts put us in. Makes me a little HOT! B.

Re: Dr. Z competitor complains about Pauline

Barbara TX on 4/26/01 at 13:26 (045837)

Kim - You want Wendy as a referee just because she is one of the only people you haven dumped on yet. B.

Re: John H or Wendyn?

Scott R on 4/26/01 at 14:09 (045845)

John and/or Wendyn, email me if you want to be the referee.

Re: John H or Wendyn?

john h on 4/26/01 at 17:47 (045871)

wendy is sure a lot better looking than me and being from canada could claim impartiality.

Re: Barbara-Grow up.

KIm B. on 4/26/01 at 18:07 (045873)

What a rude thing to say, wonder should I report this slam to the board officials? hmmm. Grow up Barbara. I said it because it true, that's all. At least she doesn't have to make an enemy out of everyone she disagrees with.

Re: John H or Wendyn?

wendyn on 4/26/01 at 18:23 (045877)

John you are sweetie - and a dapper looking one yourself.

I believe that Scott has found his referee - I think having John W as a ref would indeed make that ESWT board a whole lot more interesting.

I seem to recall that John was a very picky (in a good way) person about what was stated and implied related to ESWT.. I think that someone like that would be very reassuring to those concerned about the facts. Would probably be very tough to put anything past him that wasn't on the up and up.

If I'm remembering correctly that is - this goes back a LONG time!

Re: Dearest Kim

Barbara TX on 4/27/01 at 09:18 (045948)

I think that its best that when you see a poster that you don't like, you should simply skip over it. Hmmmm... what is the word? I belive that you said 'Shoo!' How does it feel to have a little Kim coming right back at you? That is how we all feel. Doesn't that make this foot-board a welcoming, warm place?

I have disagreed with oither people plenty of times, and have done it tactfully, without calling them names. I have disagreed with some doctors here and we have had civil discussions about it. I am capable of that detachment. B.

Re: Barbara-Grow up.

john h on 4/27/01 at 19:38 (046022)

'Barbara-Grow up'? is not barbara the lady about 6' tall ? that is about as grown up a woman as you see.

Re: Dr. Z competitor complains about Pauline

john h on 4/26/01 at 10:35 (045806)

The doctors on this board who have perfored ESWT, regardless of what machine, are the only true 'Experts' on this subject. They like the hundreds of Doctors in Europe who have been studing and performing ESWT for many years do not agree on all aspects of how to treat ESWT or which machine if any is better than another. Those of us who have had ESWT can testify to what it feels like and what results we achieved with abolute certainity. I am certain ESWT helped me some. I am certain that the shockwaves applied to my foot felt very powerful to me.

As lay people we should not give medical advice but express our thoughts and experiences with various remedies. I should never say to someone try ESWT but I would certaily suggest they consider and investigate it. I would not say to anyone that either the Ossatron,Orbasone,or Sonnocur is better than the other. We should all refrain from making personal criticisms of anyone. Some people have found relief in ways that may make no sense to the rest of us but if it worked for them i appreciate what they have to offer.

As for Dr Zuckerman i have met him twice and talked to him on the phone numerous times so i can clearly say from my experience that to me he is a sincere person who will spend much more time with you than the average doctor and seems very enthused about the subject of feet and ESWT. It is very expensive to fly from Little Rock to New Jersey and spend the night and i do not make these trips because I like Dr. Zukerman but because I think I am getting the best treatment there. Dallas,ST Louis, and San Antonio are a lot closer and offer the same machine. He has given a number of free treatments to members of this board. You could call that Marketing but knowning him I think he was simply trying to help people. Dr Zuckerman like all doctors is trying to make money and that is the American way. I have not met the other doctors who post but i very much appreciate them taking time to do so and suspect they are nice and honorable people.By the way my treatments with Dr Zuckerman are not FREE. I do pay.

Wasn't one of the things we all learned in kindergarten that we needed to know was 'Be Nice'?

Re: Dr. Z competitor complains about Pauline

Kim B. on 4/26/01 at hrmin (045811)

Scott,

I assume this competitor also is a Doctor (maybe even a Podiatrist) that uses the Orbasone. So, they are more than competitors, they are 'Friendly Competitors.' While they compete for the market share, they have a common interest in how the Orbasone is viewed by the public. Yes, Pauline comes down a bit hard on the Orbasone machine sometimes. I suspect that is because, like me, it seems better to attack an inatimate machine than a physical human being who has feelings. I just recenlty realized this about myself.

I don't think we need a referee. That is like opening the door for more complaints to 'come on in!'. Some here have a secret agenda to have myself and Paula banned from the board, and they obviously feel that the more they complain, the sooner that will happen. It isn't about right or wrong anymore, it's about 'winning' this heated debate. So sad. This is an adult forum about some very serious issues. Things are going to get heated from time to time. I have been offended many times here lately, but I've accepted my portion of responsibility and blown off the rest. As you will note Scott, I haven't emailed you to bring your attentions to every transgression that came my way. I really have more respect for your time. It's not that I haven't wanted to, it's that it seems immature to whine to you about something that we voluntarilly take part in. That is one of my reasons anyway.

If we must have one, I vote for Wendyn as a referee. She's the most level headed and unbiasied. Every other regular here seems to be hardlined on one side of the debate or another.

I think this could be resolved if some ground rules were set in place to satisfy both sides of this controversies. Say each side gets to list five things they would like to changed re: how this board is used by the lay men and doctors who use it. This thought is just off the top of my head, and has not been thought through. Maybe some others will have a better idea. I sense we need a way to bridge the differences without the ongoing posting war. My idea may go straight in to the dumper, just because it was suggested by me. Wouldn't suprise me one bit. I wonder how many people here are interested in finding a way to let eveyone's concerns be taken into consideration, instead of going by a dictatorship mentallity?

My words will as ususal be scruitnized to the hilt, so let me post what will be my standard diclaimer; 'These are simply MY opinions, based on what I have read, learned and gatherered over 2 years of spending time at this site. That's all they are, nothing more.'

Kim B.

Re: All this arguing is so counterproductive for our Board. Needs to stop.

Beverly on 4/26/01 at 11:27 (045812)

I agree with John that we as patients we would do well to report on our maladies and how we have attempted to heal them. From patients, I want to hear about treatments they have tried, what worked for them and what didn't work. What would they do again? What treatment was so miserable they wouldn't send their worst enemy to seek ? What was so wonderful that they have a new lease on life?

My own participation on the EWST board has focused on two things:
question asking of doctors and patients who have experienced EWST, because I am a potential seeker of EWST and well wishes for EWST patients in recovery. I've also noted when I see a newspaper article about EWST.

I have UTTERLY NO INTEREST in hearing opinions about EWST from nonmedical persons who have not experienced EWST as patients.

This recent line of posts on the EWST board has turned into a war zone.
If I were a newbie and came here, I'd never come back.

If we were in the real world and not on cyberspace, I would say that at this point a professional conflict interventionist needs to step in to mediate. Since we are in cyberspace, the only thing I as a patient can do is 'vote with my fingers.' In other words, I do not plan to respond to further arguments on the pros and cons of EWST, no matter who iniates the post. If more of us did that, eventually this line of dialogue would stop, because it is no fun to have an argument if no one will talk back.
It really does not matter who is right and who is wrong. To me, what matters is that this whole topic has been worn into the ground. Sometimes the only solution is to agree to disagree and move onto something else.

This is the last post I plan to make on this topic.
Thank you,
Beverly

Re: Dr. Z competitor complains about Pauline

Dr. Zuckerman on 4/26/01 at 11:43 (045816)

I have no problem with a board format change. I have always told Scott that I will change when the board wants change. The original purpose for this board is to help foot pain suffering. I am still a quest and will adopt changes that the majority on this board. Scott has been told this.

By the way how much to buy the message board Scott. A lease is also another good idea.

Re: Dr. want to resolve this the olive branch is out

Dr. Zuckerman on 4/26/01 at 11:57 (045822)

First of all lets put the orbasone machine aside . I really think that this can be resolved either by the group or the FDA is going to do this anyway in the near future I hope.

Lets stay on the Dr. Z marketing on this board topic It is my understanding that the free lotto and the Blue Light special were really off the wall in your eyes.

Well we could just remove this or have Scott always take a look at some of my ideas before I just spring them on the board. How does that sound.

Another area that may be offensive is my offering of a video and information packet via Denise . I don't agree with this being offense but let place the cards on the table. I don't know how this is going to be handled because it does take alot of time to explain to posters this and that when they ask about ESWT . I just want to get a feel for this NOW

If there is any thing else then just e-mail Dr. Z at footcare@home.com and we can discuss this off the board. I have always been willing to disuces this with Kim or Pauline over the phone but they never took Dr. Z up on the collect call offer. Maybe I was too forward. So just e-mail Dr. Z

This can be worked out trust me.

Anyway we can resolve this and I see a very bright future for Heelspur.com

Thanks you for readin this

Dr. Z

Re: All this arguing is so counterproductive for our Board. Needs to stop.

Barbara TX on 4/26/01 at 13:24 (045836)

Beverly - I loved your post... there is a lot of honesty in it. But what happens when someone slanders someone else? Don't you have to answer that sort of thing with factual information? That is the position these mean-spirited posts put us in. Makes me a little HOT! B.

Re: Dr. Z competitor complains about Pauline

Barbara TX on 4/26/01 at 13:26 (045837)

Kim - You want Wendy as a referee just because she is one of the only people you haven dumped on yet. B.

Re: John H or Wendyn?

Scott R on 4/26/01 at 14:09 (045845)

John and/or Wendyn, email me if you want to be the referee.

Re: John H or Wendyn?

john h on 4/26/01 at 17:47 (045871)

wendy is sure a lot better looking than me and being from canada could claim impartiality.

Re: Barbara-Grow up.

KIm B. on 4/26/01 at 18:07 (045873)

What a rude thing to say, wonder should I report this slam to the board officials? hmmm. Grow up Barbara. I said it because it true, that's all. At least she doesn't have to make an enemy out of everyone she disagrees with.

Re: John H or Wendyn?

wendyn on 4/26/01 at 18:23 (045877)

John you are sweetie - and a dapper looking one yourself.

I believe that Scott has found his referee - I think having John W as a ref would indeed make that ESWT board a whole lot more interesting.

I seem to recall that John was a very picky (in a good way) person about what was stated and implied related to ESWT.. I think that someone like that would be very reassuring to those concerned about the facts. Would probably be very tough to put anything past him that wasn't on the up and up.

If I'm remembering correctly that is - this goes back a LONG time!

Re: Dearest Kim

Barbara TX on 4/27/01 at 09:18 (045948)

I think that its best that when you see a poster that you don't like, you should simply skip over it. Hmmmm... what is the word? I belive that you said 'Shoo!' How does it feel to have a little Kim coming right back at you? That is how we all feel. Doesn't that make this foot-board a welcoming, warm place?

I have disagreed with oither people plenty of times, and have done it tactfully, without calling them names. I have disagreed with some doctors here and we have had civil discussions about it. I am capable of that detachment. B.

Re: Barbara-Grow up.

john h on 4/27/01 at 19:38 (046022)

'Barbara-Grow up'? is not barbara the lady about 6' tall ? that is about as grown up a woman as you see.