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A question for Dr. Reid

Posted by Cynthia d on 5/03/01 at 07:35 (046463)

I asked this before the board got 'wiped out' so I hope you see this here.

Have you had or do you still have any patients who are 'worse' off after having ESWT for a long period, I mean over 12 weeks post-treatment? And do you have any patients who were pretty bad at the 12 week mark go on to get better results with more waiting? If you had a patient in bad shape after 12 weeks, would you recommend a second treatment, or would you advise release or spur removal surgery? I know it's hard to diagnose without seeing the patient, but can you answer on general terms? Thanks so much.

Re: To Cynthia A question for Dr. Reid

Pauline on 5/03/01 at 08:23 (046466)

Hi Cynthia,
I remember from one of your earlier posts you too were still in a great deal of pain after your ESWT treatment in N.J. I think you said it was almost 11 weeks post treatment What did you decide to do? Have you gone back for more treatments. I think you had an anaesthetic for pain on your first round. Are you considering having Dr. Reid treat you?

Re: Give the EWST more time - Please read Re: A question for Dr. Reid

Donna SL on 5/03/01 at 12:48 (046495)

Hi Cynthia,

There were a group of people who went to Canada to have the Ossatron treatment in Feb 2000, along with Scott R. Most of them give a detailed progress report over many postings following the treatment. Some going into this year. Some were helped by the Ossatron treatment, and some where not. It seems that most of the ones that were helped by it didn't see results until way over the 12 week mark. Also, I know of at least one that needed retreatment, and additional therapy like ART to help their healing. (I didn't have time to search all of them). I know one women, who had done very little posting after her treatment, and just reported in that she is cured, but it took her close to 10 months!!.

I wouldn't consider having surgery, unless you give this more time, and if you haven't already, then consider a second treatment, along with PT also.

I DON'T think it matters if it's the ORBOSONE or the OSSATRTRON. Most of these people had a LOT of pain from the OSSATRON, but some of them are doing well now. I think one or two people might have been misdiagnosed for TTS, and required surgery later.

If you do a search on 'Ossatron Gang', which I think starts 2-24- 00, there is a picture of the group, and their names. You could follow the search on 'Ossatron gang', but once you have the names you can do individual searches on their names to follow their progress. Do searches on Mohez, Nicole VR, etc.

The point I'm trying to make is some in the group had sucess with the Ossatron treatement, and some didn't. Also, it seems that the Ossatron is no picnic either, and most had a LOT of pain after the procedure. It also seems most took WAY OVER THE 12 WEEK PERIOD to heal (more like months), and some needed additional treaatments, and additional type of therapy like ART to recover. I don't think it has anything to do with the machine.

I would definately give this more time, and if necessary consider another treatment, or additonal therapies(PT, ART). Also, it's crititcal if this hasn't been done already that you have testing done for any nerve involvment problems. It's seems like I am seeing more and more mis-diagnosis of this problem.

What is important is that you have a good caring doctor that will offer more treatments if necessary, who did a through exam before your treatment to rule out anything other the PF, has a lot of experience in treating foot problems, and is available for answering your concerns, and questions.

Donna

Re: To Donna Give the EWST more time - Please read Re: A question for Dr. Reid

Pauline on 5/03/01 at 13:18 (046497)

Good points Donna. Wasn't there someone who did actually have low power
treatments then switch to OssaTron? I think he was from Canada. He might be an good contact if she is thinking of trying the OssaTron.

Re: To Donna Give the EWST more time - Please read Re: A question for Dr. Reid

Dr. Zuckerman on 5/03/01 at 16:15 (046519)

Actually I in the position to use both machines I have only ready performed additional treatment of one of the original Canadian ossatron patients . Improvement.

I have also done additional treatment on another patient from Texas which had the ossatron no improvement from either the orbasone or the ossatron.

Now there was another patient Dr. Parrson (?) had the dornier epos done no relief had the canadian ossatron done alot of relief.

Re: To Dr. Z Give the EWST more time - Please read Re: A question for Dr. Reid

Pauline on 5/03/01 at 17:02 (046525)

Did Dr. Parrson's travel from Europe to Canada to have the Ossatron? I didn't think Dornier was in Canada yet because Scott never posted any sites but I thought OssaTron was already in Europe. Have you started using the OssaTron yet? What ASC are you now using for the treatment? What are your cost running there?

Re: To Dr. Z Give the EWST more time - Please read Re: A question for Dr. Reid

Dr. Zuckerman on 5/03/01 at 19:30 (046541)

No. He was from Canada. I though it was the Dornier machine . I do know that it was low energy.

I have not started to use the ossatron yet. The cost in the ASC will be the standard 6-7 thousand dollars for the one treatment.

Re: Thanks for the responses.

Cynthia D on 5/03/01 at 21:01 (046549)

Wow Pauline, I continue to be impressed with your knowledge of this topic. Whether some of your past statements were well received or not, I applaud you for your persistence and knowledge of this treatment. BTW, I lost the thread about mamogram machines (too bad). I scanned them one day in a hurry, and then meant to go back and print/reply/make an APPOINTMENT, but the board crashed and I chickened out. Would you mind writing more info on the machine you found to be the best/latest and I will print it immediately? Thanks.

There was a study done here in Boston at Mass. General using the Dornier. They no longer have the machine, and will release their findings in June. They may have a new machine in place in late summer. I still can't believe that people come to New England from all over the world for the latest and best medical care, yet no one here does ESWT.

Donna, thanks for the good info. I have read some things about the Canadian Gang. Some of the names I have read their latest posting without making that connection, so that's a great idea to search and trace. I will do that next. Thank you very much.

Yes, I had ESWT on Feb. 5 with Dr. Z (Wizard). I found him kind, compassionate, a little wacky, yet professional and extremely knowledgeable. I do want to believe this will cure my pf and that I will never need open surgery, yet, it is so hard being in pain so much!! I got quite a bit of relief (some '0' pain days) from taking steroids, and am considering another round, but am leary of the long-term effects. The pain returned a few days later with a vengance. Thanks for asking.

Re: Cynthia D. Do you receive my last e-mail

Dr. Zuckerman on 5/03/01 at 21:10 (046553)

I don't mind if you don't to give my opinion on your next move on the board,just let Dr. Z know if you received my last e-mail and if you would like my thinking on the board ,off the board or both

Re: Cynthia D. Do you receive my last e-mail

Cynthia D on 5/04/01 at 08:44 (046576)

I got cc'd on one to Germany, I'm not sure if that was in error, but yes, I did. I also got the one about considering more treatments or surgery. I guess I'm deciding not to decide right now and to give it more time. I'll email you back now.

Re: On the MGH waiting list

BrianG on 5/04/01 at 10:43 (046587)

Hi Cynthia,

I too am IMPATIENTLY waiting for the machine to come back to Boston. I did call to get in on the trials, but was too late. I think it's the same old deal, waiting for the FDA approval. MGH did tell me they had my name on file and would notify me when the machine is in place. I'll just need some patience not to get it the 1st week :*)

BCG

Re: Cynthia D. Do you receive my last e-mail

Dr. Zuckerman on 5/04/01 at 11:32 (046605)

Wow ,

The Germany one was in error, but very interesting

Re: On the MGH waiting list

Pauline on 5/04/01 at 15:27 (046625)

Hi Brian,
I'm surprised they took the machine back. My doctor still has it. Just waiting for approval but its still there.

Re: On the MGH waiting list - and rollercoasters

Cynthia D on 5/04/01 at 16:45 (046633)

Hi Brian, I remember you were waiting for the machine to come back. Marcia who posts here sometimes told me she was told that they might have it in August. You could always call and keep bugging them about it. It never hurts to learn the receptionists names and get on friendly terms with them!

A roller coaster, indeed, but today wasn't 'too bad'. Just when I'm back to complaining, things aren't so bad. Not great, but not unbearable pain today!

Re: Not sure where the machine is

BrianG on 5/05/01 at 20:06 (046728)

Hi Pauline,

It wasn't me that said the machine was taken away from MGH, it might have been Cynthia. I talked to the MGH receptionist about a month ago. She told me they should be ready to go by this fall. Me too !!!!

BCG,

Re: Not sure where the machine is

Cynthia D on 5/07/01 at 19:02 (046964)

Hi Pauline, for some reason your post didn't come up yesterday when I responded to Brian, even though the time is stamped before mine. So I didn't see it til just now. Anyway, I was told by the receptionist that they don't even have a machine now and are not offering ESWT at this time. I told her I would like his opinion as he is the only doc in New England to have performed this procedure (that we know of, anyway). I'm just going for a second opinion. I didn't ask her about their machine and why it's gone or where it went or if they're getting it back. Next time I call, I'll ask more questions, or they were very friendly, I'm sure they'll answer any calls and questions anyone here has. Where are you, by the way?

Re: To Cynthia A question for Dr. Reid

Pauline on 5/03/01 at 08:23 (046466)

Hi Cynthia,
I remember from one of your earlier posts you too were still in a great deal of pain after your ESWT treatment in N.J. I think you said it was almost 11 weeks post treatment What did you decide to do? Have you gone back for more treatments. I think you had an anaesthetic for pain on your first round. Are you considering having Dr. Reid treat you?

Re: Give the EWST more time - Please read Re: A question for Dr. Reid

Donna SL on 5/03/01 at 12:48 (046495)

Hi Cynthia,

There were a group of people who went to Canada to have the Ossatron treatment in Feb 2000, along with Scott R. Most of them give a detailed progress report over many postings following the treatment. Some going into this year. Some were helped by the Ossatron treatment, and some where not. It seems that most of the ones that were helped by it didn't see results until way over the 12 week mark. Also, I know of at least one that needed retreatment, and additional therapy like ART to help their healing. (I didn't have time to search all of them). I know one women, who had done very little posting after her treatment, and just reported in that she is cured, but it took her close to 10 months!!.

I wouldn't consider having surgery, unless you give this more time, and if you haven't already, then consider a second treatment, along with PT also.

I DON'T think it matters if it's the ORBOSONE or the OSSATRTRON. Most of these people had a LOT of pain from the OSSATRON, but some of them are doing well now. I think one or two people might have been misdiagnosed for TTS, and required surgery later.

If you do a search on 'Ossatron Gang', which I think starts 2-24- 00, there is a picture of the group, and their names. You could follow the search on 'Ossatron gang', but once you have the names you can do individual searches on their names to follow their progress. Do searches on Mohez, Nicole VR, etc.

The point I'm trying to make is some in the group had sucess with the Ossatron treatement, and some didn't. Also, it seems that the Ossatron is no picnic either, and most had a LOT of pain after the procedure. It also seems most took WAY OVER THE 12 WEEK PERIOD to heal (more like months), and some needed additional treaatments, and additional type of therapy like ART to recover. I don't think it has anything to do with the machine.

I would definately give this more time, and if necessary consider another treatment, or additonal therapies(PT, ART). Also, it's crititcal if this hasn't been done already that you have testing done for any nerve involvment problems. It's seems like I am seeing more and more mis-diagnosis of this problem.

What is important is that you have a good caring doctor that will offer more treatments if necessary, who did a through exam before your treatment to rule out anything other the PF, has a lot of experience in treating foot problems, and is available for answering your concerns, and questions.

Donna

Re: To Donna Give the EWST more time - Please read Re: A question for Dr. Reid

Pauline on 5/03/01 at 13:18 (046497)

Good points Donna. Wasn't there someone who did actually have low power
treatments then switch to OssaTron? I think he was from Canada. He might be an good contact if she is thinking of trying the OssaTron.

Re: To Donna Give the EWST more time - Please read Re: A question for Dr. Reid

Dr. Zuckerman on 5/03/01 at 16:15 (046519)

Actually I in the position to use both machines I have only ready performed additional treatment of one of the original Canadian ossatron patients . Improvement.

I have also done additional treatment on another patient from Texas which had the ossatron no improvement from either the orbasone or the ossatron.

Now there was another patient Dr. Parrson (?) had the dornier epos done no relief had the canadian ossatron done alot of relief.

Re: To Dr. Z Give the EWST more time - Please read Re: A question for Dr. Reid

Pauline on 5/03/01 at 17:02 (046525)

Did Dr. Parrson's travel from Europe to Canada to have the Ossatron? I didn't think Dornier was in Canada yet because Scott never posted any sites but I thought OssaTron was already in Europe. Have you started using the OssaTron yet? What ASC are you now using for the treatment? What are your cost running there?

Re: To Dr. Z Give the EWST more time - Please read Re: A question for Dr. Reid

Dr. Zuckerman on 5/03/01 at 19:30 (046541)

No. He was from Canada. I though it was the Dornier machine . I do know that it was low energy.

I have not started to use the ossatron yet. The cost in the ASC will be the standard 6-7 thousand dollars for the one treatment.

Re: Thanks for the responses.

Cynthia D on 5/03/01 at 21:01 (046549)

Wow Pauline, I continue to be impressed with your knowledge of this topic. Whether some of your past statements were well received or not, I applaud you for your persistence and knowledge of this treatment. BTW, I lost the thread about mamogram machines (too bad). I scanned them one day in a hurry, and then meant to go back and print/reply/make an APPOINTMENT, but the board crashed and I chickened out. Would you mind writing more info on the machine you found to be the best/latest and I will print it immediately? Thanks.

There was a study done here in Boston at Mass. General using the Dornier. They no longer have the machine, and will release their findings in June. They may have a new machine in place in late summer. I still can't believe that people come to New England from all over the world for the latest and best medical care, yet no one here does ESWT.

Donna, thanks for the good info. I have read some things about the Canadian Gang. Some of the names I have read their latest posting without making that connection, so that's a great idea to search and trace. I will do that next. Thank you very much.

Yes, I had ESWT on Feb. 5 with Dr. Z (Wizard). I found him kind, compassionate, a little wacky, yet professional and extremely knowledgeable. I do want to believe this will cure my pf and that I will never need open surgery, yet, it is so hard being in pain so much!! I got quite a bit of relief (some '0' pain days) from taking steroids, and am considering another round, but am leary of the long-term effects. The pain returned a few days later with a vengance. Thanks for asking.

Re: Cynthia D. Do you receive my last e-mail

Dr. Zuckerman on 5/03/01 at 21:10 (046553)

I don't mind if you don't to give my opinion on your next move on the board,just let Dr. Z know if you received my last e-mail and if you would like my thinking on the board ,off the board or both

Re: Cynthia D. Do you receive my last e-mail

Cynthia D on 5/04/01 at 08:44 (046576)

I got cc'd on one to Germany, I'm not sure if that was in error, but yes, I did. I also got the one about considering more treatments or surgery. I guess I'm deciding not to decide right now and to give it more time. I'll email you back now.

Re: On the MGH waiting list

BrianG on 5/04/01 at 10:43 (046587)

Hi Cynthia,

I too am IMPATIENTLY waiting for the machine to come back to Boston. I did call to get in on the trials, but was too late. I think it's the same old deal, waiting for the FDA approval. MGH did tell me they had my name on file and would notify me when the machine is in place. I'll just need some patience not to get it the 1st week :*)

BCG

Re: Cynthia D. Do you receive my last e-mail

Dr. Zuckerman on 5/04/01 at 11:32 (046605)

Wow ,

The Germany one was in error, but very interesting

Re: On the MGH waiting list

Pauline on 5/04/01 at 15:27 (046625)

Hi Brian,
I'm surprised they took the machine back. My doctor still has it. Just waiting for approval but its still there.

Re: On the MGH waiting list - and rollercoasters

Cynthia D on 5/04/01 at 16:45 (046633)

Hi Brian, I remember you were waiting for the machine to come back. Marcia who posts here sometimes told me she was told that they might have it in August. You could always call and keep bugging them about it. It never hurts to learn the receptionists names and get on friendly terms with them!

A roller coaster, indeed, but today wasn't 'too bad'. Just when I'm back to complaining, things aren't so bad. Not great, but not unbearable pain today!

Re: Not sure where the machine is

BrianG on 5/05/01 at 20:06 (046728)

Hi Pauline,

It wasn't me that said the machine was taken away from MGH, it might have been Cynthia. I talked to the MGH receptionist about a month ago. She told me they should be ready to go by this fall. Me too !!!!

BCG,

Re: Not sure where the machine is

Cynthia D on 5/07/01 at 19:02 (046964)

Hi Pauline, for some reason your post didn't come up yesterday when I responded to Brian, even though the time is stamped before mine. So I didn't see it til just now. Anyway, I was told by the receptionist that they don't even have a machine now and are not offering ESWT at this time. I told her I would like his opinion as he is the only doc in New England to have performed this procedure (that we know of, anyway). I'm just going for a second opinion. I didn't ask her about their machine and why it's gone or where it went or if they're getting it back. Next time I call, I'll ask more questions, or they were very friendly, I'm sure they'll answer any calls and questions anyone here has. Where are you, by the way?