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To Donna: regarding ART

Posted by Helene M on 5/23/01 at 11:40 (048652)

Donna, thanks for the dr's. name. How wonderful your pain is a 0 to 1! I feel you are very fortunate to have found this combination of practitioners who are helping you (chiro, physiatrist, pod). I had seen a physiatrist who tried to move my feet in every direction, which set me back greatly. Then he referrred me to his physical therapy facility on the premises, which just made me even worse. He gave me no other advice or suggestions. Didn't mention ART. Plus I have no pod or ortho right now. I dropped them all as they were completely ineffective. I recently went to an osteopath with high hopes but he didn't seem any different than my usual primary care physician. He did no manipulations nor did he look at my body, other than my feet. How disappointing. I must not be picking the right drs. At the moment, I feel like a homeless person with nowhere to go! Anyway, I should get to the point: Before starting the ART, did you feel the adhesions or were you at least aware you had them? Did any scar tissue show on your MRI? My MRI showed nothing. I ask because I don't feel any lumps or bumps in my feet or calves but I am so chronic & disabled at this point it seems logical I would have lots of scar tissue. I called one ART chiro yesterday and will call another one today. I haven't given up hope yet. I am motivated from your success.

Re: To Helene Re: To Donna: regarding ART

Donna SL on 5/23/01 at 14:13 (048659)

Helene,

Nothing showed on my MRI either. I don't think adhesions from myofascial pain would show on an an MRI. I didn't have any lumps, or bumps that I could feel My tissue in my feet, and legs just felt very tight and sore, and I didn't know why. These adhesions are all within the fascial tissue. Chiros, and expertly trained myofascial specialist are trained to know the difference between normal and non normal feeling tissue.

From the condition you're decribing you are probably suffering from lots myofascial adhesions. This is not a new concept. I'm surprised the physiatrist didn't recognize this, and suggest treatment even though he didn't know about ART. As a physiatrist he should have been able to recognise, and know that myofascial pain needs to be treated with the proper therapy. Even before ART, or even now, therapies like myofascial release, trigger point massaage, and in more severe cases dry needling, acupuncture, etc. are needed, and successful in breaking up adhesions throughout the fascia. The tight tissue can be crippling. This type of therapy has been prescribed for years, and helped many people who have obtained even severe scar from surgery in many parts of the body. As I mentioned before, most therapist make the mistake of doing deep tissure massage which serves an entirely different purpose, and does little if nothing for fascial tissue.

I went to an osteopath this winter , before I knew about ART and was just thinking last night what a waste of precious time that I could have been spending with this chiro. I initially went because my gait was starting to affect my hips, and back. He didn't really do much for my back, and he told me what he was doing for my back would help my feet. He didn't help with either. He didn't know a damn thing about feet, and told me ankle circles would take my heel pain away. Ha! My chiro also fixed my back, in a couple of sessions. He said my pelvis just got a little out of whack from the way I was walking, and I'm fine now. I love chiropractors.

I think one of these chiros that you choose will know good doctors to refer you too. It seems to me you have to be very dedicated and caring to do this kind of therapy, so I assume they will only refer you to people that are the same.

Even if the chiro doesn't get me 100% better, I honest to god feel he saved my life. I wasn't as disabled as you were decribing, because I had other treatment probably eariler than you did, but I think I saw him just in time, and was heading in that direction. I was at the point, where not only did my feet hurt, but the rest of my body was being affected, and I was getting stiffer,and stiffer, not only in my legs, but it was starting to affect my hips, back, and mental state. This is all from compensation from your foot pain. I was starting to think I had some serious muscular disease, yet nothing showed up on extensive medical testing. I had 6 months of conventional PT, and it did very little for me. The amount of flexiblity that he has restored so far in me is unbelievable.

Even if someone had a point specific treatment like accupuncture, ESWT, etc., I would still recommend this therapy, because so many parts of the body get affected from years of chronic pain, and the above therapies don't address all these body parts. Even if he gets rid of all the nerve entrapment, etc., and couldn't get the last little bit of tight/injured fascia cured (I do have PF too), and I had to consider ESWT, I feel that would just be icing on the cake.

I'm glad you called. Did you make any appointments yet? You have to be very committed, and know you will have to commit some time to this. You may have some discomfort after the first few sessions, but at the same time you should also feel much better after the very first, or second time. I would ask if it would be beneficial for you to go three times a week for the first couple of weeks. Then after that at least two times a week. Also, have you taken the Vioxx?

Donna

Re: To Donna: regarding ART

ellen w on 5/23/01 at hrmin (048662)

Helene,

If you email me, I'll give you the name of my physical therapist. Her practice is in Downtown Manhatten on Dey Street, by the World Trade Towers. She's been the only PT I've used, so I don't have a frame of reference to compare her to others, but I've been pleased. And some of her other patients have raved about how great they think she is relative to others they've tried. I don't think she does ART, but she did do deep tissue massage for my achilles tendonitis, and it really helped. If you go to one of the ART practitioners in New York, I will be really interested in knowing what you think.
Ellen

Re: To Donna & Ellen w: regarding ART

Helene M on 5/23/01 at 16:35 (048670)

I hope adhesions are the problem. I am not sure. My arches are always swollen like 2 balloons, except when I wake up in the morning. When I start walking, it comes back. No appointments yet. I will go to the neurologist on 5/29 first to get his opinion on what's wrong. Regarding the physiatrist, I had told him I've been diagnosed 'PF' for a long time so I guess he just assumed the diagnosis was correct & didn't go further.
I spoke to an ART chiro today. He told me there's very few he hasn't helped. There are 3 ART chiros in the office, 2 are full body certified.I also called the ART office in Co. and they told me it might be more difficult to get treated by an instructor because they are so busy. The chiro I spoke to is not an instructor. I called another office, of an instructor and got info but didn't speak to him personally. The prices vary a bit between the 2 offices that I've called so far. If my insurance doesn't cover it, it will be quite expensive. Regarding Vioxx, it's unfortunate but I've have become allergic to the Nsaids. It's the first time I haven't taken an anti-inflammatory during a flare-up and first time I have not recovered. Perhaps not a coincidence that I can't shake this,without any drugs to help things. I get tight chest and shortness of breath. My mom developed asthma from taking aspirin. I don't want to follow in her footsteps so I've refrained. I'm trying Zyflamend now, an herbal Cox-2 inhibitor from Vitamin Shoppe but it's disturbing my intestines. Maybe that's just my body starting to release the toxins? If not, how unlucky can I possibly be not to be able to take anything for this condition? I think if you are allergic to one nsaid, you can't take any, including the cox-2 drugs. Ellen w, I'll keep you & Donna sl posted on the ART chiros. I'll e-mail you for the name of your PT. Thanks.

Re: To Helene Re: To Donna: regarding ART

Donna SL on 5/23/01 at 14:13 (048659)

Helene,

Nothing showed on my MRI either. I don't think adhesions from myofascial pain would show on an an MRI. I didn't have any lumps, or bumps that I could feel My tissue in my feet, and legs just felt very tight and sore, and I didn't know why. These adhesions are all within the fascial tissue. Chiros, and expertly trained myofascial specialist are trained to know the difference between normal and non normal feeling tissue.

From the condition you're decribing you are probably suffering from lots myofascial adhesions. This is not a new concept. I'm surprised the physiatrist didn't recognize this, and suggest treatment even though he didn't know about ART. As a physiatrist he should have been able to recognise, and know that myofascial pain needs to be treated with the proper therapy. Even before ART, or even now, therapies like myofascial release, trigger point massaage, and in more severe cases dry needling, acupuncture, etc. are needed, and successful in breaking up adhesions throughout the fascia. The tight tissue can be crippling. This type of therapy has been prescribed for years, and helped many people who have obtained even severe scar from surgery in many parts of the body. As I mentioned before, most therapist make the mistake of doing deep tissure massage which serves an entirely different purpose, and does little if nothing for fascial tissue.

I went to an osteopath this winter , before I knew about ART and was just thinking last night what a waste of precious time that I could have been spending with this chiro. I initially went because my gait was starting to affect my hips, and back. He didn't really do much for my back, and he told me what he was doing for my back would help my feet. He didn't help with either. He didn't know a damn thing about feet, and told me ankle circles would take my heel pain away. Ha! My chiro also fixed my back, in a couple of sessions. He said my pelvis just got a little out of whack from the way I was walking, and I'm fine now. I love chiropractors.

I think one of these chiros that you choose will know good doctors to refer you too. It seems to me you have to be very dedicated and caring to do this kind of therapy, so I assume they will only refer you to people that are the same.

Even if the chiro doesn't get me 100% better, I honest to god feel he saved my life. I wasn't as disabled as you were decribing, because I had other treatment probably eariler than you did, but I think I saw him just in time, and was heading in that direction. I was at the point, where not only did my feet hurt, but the rest of my body was being affected, and I was getting stiffer,and stiffer, not only in my legs, but it was starting to affect my hips, back, and mental state. This is all from compensation from your foot pain. I was starting to think I had some serious muscular disease, yet nothing showed up on extensive medical testing. I had 6 months of conventional PT, and it did very little for me. The amount of flexiblity that he has restored so far in me is unbelievable.

Even if someone had a point specific treatment like accupuncture, ESWT, etc., I would still recommend this therapy, because so many parts of the body get affected from years of chronic pain, and the above therapies don't address all these body parts. Even if he gets rid of all the nerve entrapment, etc., and couldn't get the last little bit of tight/injured fascia cured (I do have PF too), and I had to consider ESWT, I feel that would just be icing on the cake.

I'm glad you called. Did you make any appointments yet? You have to be very committed, and know you will have to commit some time to this. You may have some discomfort after the first few sessions, but at the same time you should also feel much better after the very first, or second time. I would ask if it would be beneficial for you to go three times a week for the first couple of weeks. Then after that at least two times a week. Also, have you taken the Vioxx?

Donna

Re: To Donna: regarding ART

ellen w on 5/23/01 at hrmin (048662)

Helene,

If you email me, I'll give you the name of my physical therapist. Her practice is in Downtown Manhatten on Dey Street, by the World Trade Towers. She's been the only PT I've used, so I don't have a frame of reference to compare her to others, but I've been pleased. And some of her other patients have raved about how great they think she is relative to others they've tried. I don't think she does ART, but she did do deep tissue massage for my achilles tendonitis, and it really helped. If you go to one of the ART practitioners in New York, I will be really interested in knowing what you think.
Ellen

Re: To Donna & Ellen w: regarding ART

Helene M on 5/23/01 at 16:35 (048670)

I hope adhesions are the problem. I am not sure. My arches are always swollen like 2 balloons, except when I wake up in the morning. When I start walking, it comes back. No appointments yet. I will go to the neurologist on 5/29 first to get his opinion on what's wrong. Regarding the physiatrist, I had told him I've been diagnosed 'PF' for a long time so I guess he just assumed the diagnosis was correct & didn't go further.
I spoke to an ART chiro today. He told me there's very few he hasn't helped. There are 3 ART chiros in the office, 2 are full body certified.I also called the ART office in Co. and they told me it might be more difficult to get treated by an instructor because they are so busy. The chiro I spoke to is not an instructor. I called another office, of an instructor and got info but didn't speak to him personally. The prices vary a bit between the 2 offices that I've called so far. If my insurance doesn't cover it, it will be quite expensive. Regarding Vioxx, it's unfortunate but I've have become allergic to the Nsaids. It's the first time I haven't taken an anti-inflammatory during a flare-up and first time I have not recovered. Perhaps not a coincidence that I can't shake this,without any drugs to help things. I get tight chest and shortness of breath. My mom developed asthma from taking aspirin. I don't want to follow in her footsteps so I've refrained. I'm trying Zyflamend now, an herbal Cox-2 inhibitor from Vitamin Shoppe but it's disturbing my intestines. Maybe that's just my body starting to release the toxins? If not, how unlucky can I possibly be not to be able to take anything for this condition? I think if you are allergic to one nsaid, you can't take any, including the cox-2 drugs. Ellen w, I'll keep you & Donna sl posted on the ART chiros. I'll e-mail you for the name of your PT. Thanks.