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Sugestions.....

Posted by Marty on 5/29/01 at hrmin (049255)

Does anyone have any suggestion that I can try with my nerve entrapment. I have been battling pf now going on 4 years. I can not take the burning anymore! I can't ware shoes at all for more then 15 minutes. I have high arches and the pod say I also have Cavus feet as well. I waited way to long to get help.

Treatment thus far:

1- Injections, (2 so far this year.) Could get my last one next Monday.
2- New custom orthodics. (Had for 2 months, but have others before them)
3- I'm taking 800mg of Advil every hours now. I know that's allot but I'm careful to take them with something in my stomach and I drink at least a gallon of water a day.
4- I ice my feet down at least 3 times at work and twice at night when I'm home. (This helps the most). I if my feet get hot at all the burring is unbearable
5- Lost 50lbs
6- I only ware New Balance
7- I would say that I'm only on my feet for a maximum of 1 to 2 hours a day.
8- Stretches (In the morning and I also warm my feet up before getting into my shoes.) I don't have allot of pain in the mornings, but the burning starts up with in the hour.
9- I have tried the Golf ball thing. Set me back.

I would love to have a ESWT machine here in Utah but at this point I have not been able to come up with on. My insurance at this point probably wouldn't cover it anyway.

Thanks,

Marty

Re: Thanks

Beverly on 3/18/01 at 11:35 (041774)

Thanks, John and Nancy,

I cruised TOPS website and found I have plenty of local chapters within a 3 mile radius. I will check it out. Sounds like it has the benefits of 'the weigh in' that Weight Watcher's has but the meetings sound like they have more depth and are FREE. I like that they don't say, 'Do this particular diet.' That would leave me free to particpate and still follow Weight Watcher's eating plan.
Beverly

Re: Sugestions.....

Er. Zuckerman on 5/29/01 at 18:00 (049257)

There are medication such as neurotinin that can be used.

Re: Sugestions.....

wendyn on 5/29/01 at 19:47 (049272)

Marty - it's important to differentiate (if possible) between nerve entrapment and PF. If you have nerve entrapment - it usually means that you are not a candidate for ESWT.

The golf ball thing may be good for PF but might really irritate an already crabby nerve.

Can you explain what diagnosis (all of them) you have had - and what types of tests you've had done?

If you're needing to be on lots of Advil - you may want to ask your doctor about 2 of the newer drugs that are supposed to be a little easier on the stomach...Celebrex or Vioxx.

Can you also explain the process you go through for icing - both at home and at work?

Re: Sugestions.....

Donna SL on 5/30/01 at 07:06 (049319)

Marty

I have high arches, which is the same as Cavus feet, and had been diagnosed with nerve entrapment which had caused burning in foot, heel pain, etc. for over two years. Could you describe your symptoms in more detail. ie. where is the burning? Do you have pain also, and what part of your feet. (heels, toes, ankles, or everywhere.)

What New Balance model are you wearing? (Very important). The majority of the NB shoes caused problems for me. Can you describe the type of orthotics you have in as much detail as possible, ie. material used, shape, coverings, etc.

Have you tried just taping, and using a OTC orthotic for a while instead of the custom ones? (I have a whole drawer full of custom orthotics, and am ready to pick up another pair, but don't know if I'll wear them). Also, I've found a slightly different method for taping works better for high arches than suggested on the board. What method of taping are you using?

The only thing that helped me was Active Release Technique (90% reduction in symptoms) which I started this April, Vioxx, and not wearing any custom orthotics at the moment. Only tape, and spenco cross training orthotics. Motrin was not as effective as Vioxx. Also swimming and biking on a staionary bike helped. But attibute almost everything to the ART.

I'm also curious about what medical diagnosis you have had, and any testing so far. Also what biomechanical problems were you told that you have (varus, valgus problems, etc.) other than having cavus feet?

Donna

Re: Sugestions.....

Marty on 5/30/01 at 08:10 (049323)

Well to tell you the truth I'm not sure I even have nerve entrapment. It just seemed so. I have been to 3 pods now and the one I'm seeing now is the best but doesn't seem to be up on all the new stuff either. For example hasn't heard of EWST. Anyway the only test I have had is a normal blood test from my normal doc. He thought maybe I was diabetic. Other then that my first pod took x-rays over a year ago. He said that I have a heel spur as big as a house on my left foot. That's it. My pod told me to take the Advil as well as the other two I have seen.

Icing:

First thing in morning I do non weight baring stretches. The warm up the feet by sitting on side of bed and do these rapid feet movements. That's the best way I can explain it. LOL. Then I put on my New Balance shoes with my orthodics in them. Never go bare foot. Then I walk around a bit. Then I do standing calve stresses.

(6:00 am) I go to work... there I get my cold compress packs out of the freezer take them to my desk and put my feet on them. I do this 20 min. Then I let my feet warm up and if time I do this again. I put the packs back in the freezer.

(9:30 am) First break I do same as above but only for 10 min.

(11:30am) Same as above for 20 min.

(2pm) Same as above for 10 min.

(4:30pm at home) Same as above but lying down on bed with compresses wrapped on my elevated feet.

(8pm) I fill my ice bucket up and soak feet for 20 min in ice water. Warm them up 20 min and then do again.

I have been doing this for one year now. It's the only way I can make it through the day. In fact I'm doing it right now. Just got to work and have started my morning routine.

Marty

Re: Sugestions.....

john h on 5/30/01 at 09:23 (049328)

marty: sometimes a vericose vein inside the tarsal tunnel will press on a nerve. you might try wearing some support stockings which help to keep the blood from pooling and also elevate your feet when at rest. good support stocking cost around $12.00.

Re: Sugestions.....

john h on 5/30/01 at 09:28 (049329)

if you truly have TTS one doctor told me you could do damage to your feet with vigorous massage. this would seem to make sense as if something is pressing on a nerve and you continue to massage you would continue to irritate the nerve.

Re: Sugestions.....

Marty on 5/30/01 at hrmin (049334)

Thanks so much for your interest in me. I to have real high arches. Are you the one that has been writing about Active Release Technique? I have been looking every where for it here in Salt Lake City. I guess I can wait till the Olympics are here then go around asking the trainers to help me. LOL Is it possible to learn how to do it myself?

Anyway to answer your questions:

1- The burning is in my arch area. All along it. Not my toes nor my heels. I think it started when I started to ware arch supports. I have worn gel, cork etc. Because I have high arches my arches have never had anything ever touch them all their life. Now they seem to be carrying most of the weight. Seems that way anyway because they are extra sensitive. If I don't ware the arch supports the pain in my heels comes back in a day or so.

2- No I do not have any pain right now. (Unless you count the burning/numbness, that hurts) I have torn my fascia pushing broken down cars before and I know what that pain is all about. However I do possibly believe I torn it because I had arch supports in and that cause my fascia to pull. Not sure?

3- I have 4 pair of new balance shoes. I love them but yes your right you have to get the right kind. I have found the best success with my good old 659's. But right now I'm wearing 625's. I have 2 pair of these. One for work and one for house use only. They I have a pair of 803's that I like the least that cost the most. I ware these only for short periods of time. I have tried good hiking boots and Brick's.

4- The pair of custom orthodics I'm wearing now are 3/4 in length. Hard leather surface, made of blue plastic. The have about a 1/4 inch block flat block under the heel for stability. They feel reel good on my heels but not on of course my arches. Nothing does. I was a bit disappointed when I got them. Look cheap.

5- I have tried just taping. I don't know if I stuck with it long enough. I did it thru 2 rolls of tape then quit. I need to get more tape. It did my the burning less. Seem to give a little protection to arches. I have been thinking about trying other materials. This might help, like a wrap of some sort. I think I have seen some post in here for re-useable ones. Kind of like what they wrap your arm with after you give blood. ??

6- I have tried OTC orthotics. The are worse on the arch irritation. Spenco's etc. The best ones I got from my pod to try. Only last 3 months and the break in period is a month.

7- No test done.... I have only had x-rays taken. I have been to 3 pods and that all they are willing to give me. I had a blood test done 2 years ago by my normal doc. He thought I might be diabetic. I have had no one tell me anything about biomechanical problems. My pod stopped me about a month ago when I was leaving his office and said he noticed as I wasn't walking heel, toe. Told me to work on it. I can do that now with no pain, but at that time I was still trying to get use to my now customes and I had my heels full of cortizone or what ever it was. He told me but I can't remember. All I remember is it is a combo shot. Water and oil base stuff. He said for short and long term help. That has helped the most.

As far as ART goes I'm really interested in it. I know other then ice and shots when I massage both side of my heel becasue they are numb that gets the blood going again or some thing and the numbness goes away. I have tied to massage my feet and calves but dont have a clue what I'm doing. I don't even rub my arches because they will flare up. I think I have some short of blood flow problem in my feet but nor sure.

Also if you know where I can find that special wrap stuff please let me know.

Once again thanks,

-Marty

Re: Sugestions.....

Marty on 5/30/01 at 09:48 (049335)

Yes I belive that is true. I only massage the outside edges of my heels to get the blood going.

Thanks

Re: Sugestions.....

Marty on 5/30/01 at 10:06 (049340)

This is worth a try! Any ideas where I might find a good stocking ????? I do have bad vericose vein problems. Didn't think of the feet area however.

Thanks,

-Marty

Re: Sugestions.....

BrianG on 5/30/01 at 10:44 (049343)

Hi Marty,

Dr Z mentioned Neurontin for the burning pain, it's worth a try. Have you seen a Neurologist yet? The Neuro's can sometimes prescribe for nerve / burning type of pain. There is another med thats very good for your type of pain, but should only be considered after all others are ruled out, Methadone. It works excellent for nerve type pain, it's not just for addiction problems. Good luck

BCG

Re: Sugestions.....

Marty on 5/30/01 at 12:27 (049353)

Docter Zuckerman,

Do I ask my pod for this?

Re: Sugestions.....

Marty on 5/30/01 at 12:29 (049354)

Nope have not been to a Neurologist yet. I can't take the run around but I guess when it's to bad I won't have a choice. I have spent so much time with pod's assistants and that kind of crap to last a life time.

Sorry for the negativaty... I know there's many good doctors, guess just had enough of this.

Thanks for the sugestions. Other have sugested neurotinin as well. I will ask my pod about it.

-Marty

Re: Sugestions.....

Dr Zuckerman on 5/30/01 at 13:26 (049360)

You can or your primary care doctor or a neurologist. Anyone that has experience with the use of this medication

Re: Sugestions.....

john h on 5/30/01 at 14:07 (049365)

some of the larger drugstore chains carry men's support stockings or you can go to http://www.drugstore.com and find

Re: Sugestions.....

Marty on 5/30/01 at 15:07 (049370)

thanks

Re: Thanks

Marty on 5/30/01 at 15:08 (049371)

Thanks

Re: Sugestions.....

wendyn on 5/30/01 at 22:49 (049418)

Hi Marty. A couple of things that jump out....

First of all - more than likely your foot pain is because something is wrong with your feet (high arches etc). Nevertheless - most doctors will do some work to rule out systemic causes with long term unexplained foot pain. The burning in particular is a concern. You may want to ask if your B12 has ever been checked. Perhaps a visit to your GP for a good overall check up may be in order. Low B12 can cause neuropathy (which causes pain and burning in extremeties).

The varicose veins may be possible contributor to your problems. I didn't see it mentioned - but have you ever had nerve conduction tests done? They would probably show if there was a compression from a big vein in your feet.

I have very flat feet - not high arched, so unfortunately I have no footwear suggestions for you!

Re: Thanks Wendyn

Marty on 5/31/01 at 07:46 (049444)

I couple other mentioned both, Thanks

Re: Thanks

Beverly on 3/18/01 at 11:35 (041774)

Thanks, John and Nancy,

I cruised TOPS website and found I have plenty of local chapters within a 3 mile radius. I will check it out. Sounds like it has the benefits of 'the weigh in' that Weight Watcher's has but the meetings sound like they have more depth and are FREE. I like that they don't say, 'Do this particular diet.' That would leave me free to particpate and still follow Weight Watcher's eating plan.
Beverly

Re: Sugestions.....

Er. Zuckerman on 5/29/01 at 18:00 (049257)

There are medication such as neurotinin that can be used.

Re: Sugestions.....

wendyn on 5/29/01 at 19:47 (049272)

Marty - it's important to differentiate (if possible) between nerve entrapment and PF. If you have nerve entrapment - it usually means that you are not a candidate for ESWT.

The golf ball thing may be good for PF but might really irritate an already crabby nerve.

Can you explain what diagnosis (all of them) you have had - and what types of tests you've had done?

If you're needing to be on lots of Advil - you may want to ask your doctor about 2 of the newer drugs that are supposed to be a little easier on the stomach...Celebrex or Vioxx.

Can you also explain the process you go through for icing - both at home and at work?

Re: Sugestions.....

Donna SL on 5/30/01 at 07:06 (049319)

Marty

I have high arches, which is the same as Cavus feet, and had been diagnosed with nerve entrapment which had caused burning in foot, heel pain, etc. for over two years. Could you describe your symptoms in more detail. ie. where is the burning? Do you have pain also, and what part of your feet. (heels, toes, ankles, or everywhere.)

What New Balance model are you wearing? (Very important). The majority of the NB shoes caused problems for me. Can you describe the type of orthotics you have in as much detail as possible, ie. material used, shape, coverings, etc.

Have you tried just taping, and using a OTC orthotic for a while instead of the custom ones? (I have a whole drawer full of custom orthotics, and am ready to pick up another pair, but don't know if I'll wear them). Also, I've found a slightly different method for taping works better for high arches than suggested on the board. What method of taping are you using?

The only thing that helped me was Active Release Technique (90% reduction in symptoms) which I started this April, Vioxx, and not wearing any custom orthotics at the moment. Only tape, and spenco cross training orthotics. Motrin was not as effective as Vioxx. Also swimming and biking on a staionary bike helped. But attibute almost everything to the ART.

I'm also curious about what medical diagnosis you have had, and any testing so far. Also what biomechanical problems were you told that you have (varus, valgus problems, etc.) other than having cavus feet?

Donna

Re: Sugestions.....

Marty on 5/30/01 at 08:10 (049323)

Well to tell you the truth I'm not sure I even have nerve entrapment. It just seemed so. I have been to 3 pods now and the one I'm seeing now is the best but doesn't seem to be up on all the new stuff either. For example hasn't heard of EWST. Anyway the only test I have had is a normal blood test from my normal doc. He thought maybe I was diabetic. Other then that my first pod took x-rays over a year ago. He said that I have a heel spur as big as a house on my left foot. That's it. My pod told me to take the Advil as well as the other two I have seen.

Icing:

First thing in morning I do non weight baring stretches. The warm up the feet by sitting on side of bed and do these rapid feet movements. That's the best way I can explain it. LOL. Then I put on my New Balance shoes with my orthodics in them. Never go bare foot. Then I walk around a bit. Then I do standing calve stresses.

(6:00 am) I go to work... there I get my cold compress packs out of the freezer take them to my desk and put my feet on them. I do this 20 min. Then I let my feet warm up and if time I do this again. I put the packs back in the freezer.

(9:30 am) First break I do same as above but only for 10 min.

(11:30am) Same as above for 20 min.

(2pm) Same as above for 10 min.

(4:30pm at home) Same as above but lying down on bed with compresses wrapped on my elevated feet.

(8pm) I fill my ice bucket up and soak feet for 20 min in ice water. Warm them up 20 min and then do again.

I have been doing this for one year now. It's the only way I can make it through the day. In fact I'm doing it right now. Just got to work and have started my morning routine.

Marty

Re: Sugestions.....

john h on 5/30/01 at 09:23 (049328)

marty: sometimes a vericose vein inside the tarsal tunnel will press on a nerve. you might try wearing some support stockings which help to keep the blood from pooling and also elevate your feet when at rest. good support stocking cost around $12.00.

Re: Sugestions.....

john h on 5/30/01 at 09:28 (049329)

if you truly have TTS one doctor told me you could do damage to your feet with vigorous massage. this would seem to make sense as if something is pressing on a nerve and you continue to massage you would continue to irritate the nerve.

Re: Sugestions.....

Marty on 5/30/01 at hrmin (049334)

Thanks so much for your interest in me. I to have real high arches. Are you the one that has been writing about Active Release Technique? I have been looking every where for it here in Salt Lake City. I guess I can wait till the Olympics are here then go around asking the trainers to help me. LOL Is it possible to learn how to do it myself?

Anyway to answer your questions:

1- The burning is in my arch area. All along it. Not my toes nor my heels. I think it started when I started to ware arch supports. I have worn gel, cork etc. Because I have high arches my arches have never had anything ever touch them all their life. Now they seem to be carrying most of the weight. Seems that way anyway because they are extra sensitive. If I don't ware the arch supports the pain in my heels comes back in a day or so.

2- No I do not have any pain right now. (Unless you count the burning/numbness, that hurts) I have torn my fascia pushing broken down cars before and I know what that pain is all about. However I do possibly believe I torn it because I had arch supports in and that cause my fascia to pull. Not sure?

3- I have 4 pair of new balance shoes. I love them but yes your right you have to get the right kind. I have found the best success with my good old 659's. But right now I'm wearing 625's. I have 2 pair of these. One for work and one for house use only. They I have a pair of 803's that I like the least that cost the most. I ware these only for short periods of time. I have tried good hiking boots and Brick's.

4- The pair of custom orthodics I'm wearing now are 3/4 in length. Hard leather surface, made of blue plastic. The have about a 1/4 inch block flat block under the heel for stability. They feel reel good on my heels but not on of course my arches. Nothing does. I was a bit disappointed when I got them. Look cheap.

5- I have tried just taping. I don't know if I stuck with it long enough. I did it thru 2 rolls of tape then quit. I need to get more tape. It did my the burning less. Seem to give a little protection to arches. I have been thinking about trying other materials. This might help, like a wrap of some sort. I think I have seen some post in here for re-useable ones. Kind of like what they wrap your arm with after you give blood. ??

6- I have tried OTC orthotics. The are worse on the arch irritation. Spenco's etc. The best ones I got from my pod to try. Only last 3 months and the break in period is a month.

7- No test done.... I have only had x-rays taken. I have been to 3 pods and that all they are willing to give me. I had a blood test done 2 years ago by my normal doc. He thought I might be diabetic. I have had no one tell me anything about biomechanical problems. My pod stopped me about a month ago when I was leaving his office and said he noticed as I wasn't walking heel, toe. Told me to work on it. I can do that now with no pain, but at that time I was still trying to get use to my now customes and I had my heels full of cortizone or what ever it was. He told me but I can't remember. All I remember is it is a combo shot. Water and oil base stuff. He said for short and long term help. That has helped the most.

As far as ART goes I'm really interested in it. I know other then ice and shots when I massage both side of my heel becasue they are numb that gets the blood going again or some thing and the numbness goes away. I have tied to massage my feet and calves but dont have a clue what I'm doing. I don't even rub my arches because they will flare up. I think I have some short of blood flow problem in my feet but nor sure.

Also if you know where I can find that special wrap stuff please let me know.

Once again thanks,

-Marty

Re: Sugestions.....

Marty on 5/30/01 at 09:48 (049335)

Yes I belive that is true. I only massage the outside edges of my heels to get the blood going.

Thanks

Re: Sugestions.....

Marty on 5/30/01 at 10:06 (049340)

This is worth a try! Any ideas where I might find a good stocking ????? I do have bad vericose vein problems. Didn't think of the feet area however.

Thanks,

-Marty

Re: Sugestions.....

BrianG on 5/30/01 at 10:44 (049343)

Hi Marty,

Dr Z mentioned Neurontin for the burning pain, it's worth a try. Have you seen a Neurologist yet? The Neuro's can sometimes prescribe for nerve / burning type of pain. There is another med thats very good for your type of pain, but should only be considered after all others are ruled out, Methadone. It works excellent for nerve type pain, it's not just for addiction problems. Good luck

BCG

Re: Sugestions.....

Marty on 5/30/01 at 12:27 (049353)

Docter Zuckerman,

Do I ask my pod for this?

Re: Sugestions.....

Marty on 5/30/01 at 12:29 (049354)

Nope have not been to a Neurologist yet. I can't take the run around but I guess when it's to bad I won't have a choice. I have spent so much time with pod's assistants and that kind of crap to last a life time.

Sorry for the negativaty... I know there's many good doctors, guess just had enough of this.

Thanks for the sugestions. Other have sugested neurotinin as well. I will ask my pod about it.

-Marty

Re: Sugestions.....

Dr Zuckerman on 5/30/01 at 13:26 (049360)

You can or your primary care doctor or a neurologist. Anyone that has experience with the use of this medication

Re: Sugestions.....

john h on 5/30/01 at 14:07 (049365)

some of the larger drugstore chains carry men's support stockings or you can go to http://www.drugstore.com and find

Re: Sugestions.....

Marty on 5/30/01 at 15:07 (049370)

thanks

Re: Thanks

Marty on 5/30/01 at 15:08 (049371)

Thanks

Re: Sugestions.....

wendyn on 5/30/01 at 22:49 (049418)

Hi Marty. A couple of things that jump out....

First of all - more than likely your foot pain is because something is wrong with your feet (high arches etc). Nevertheless - most doctors will do some work to rule out systemic causes with long term unexplained foot pain. The burning in particular is a concern. You may want to ask if your B12 has ever been checked. Perhaps a visit to your GP for a good overall check up may be in order. Low B12 can cause neuropathy (which causes pain and burning in extremeties).

The varicose veins may be possible contributor to your problems. I didn't see it mentioned - but have you ever had nerve conduction tests done? They would probably show if there was a compression from a big vein in your feet.

I have very flat feet - not high arched, so unfortunately I have no footwear suggestions for you!

Re: Thanks Wendyn

Marty on 5/31/01 at 07:46 (049444)

I couple other mentioned both, Thanks