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PF and Jade 168 Balm

Posted by Dr. Chris Reynolds on 6/28/01 at hrmin (051784)

I wonder if any of you would like to comment on my views about PF and autoimmunity and the results (so far) of the Jade trial which are available on my website. I know my ideas may seem unusual, but I believe they have some credibility. Getting your input is very important to me because by dialogue a clearer view of PF may well emerge. Thank you.

My website: http://www.wire.net.au/~jastmi/default.html

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

JudyS on 6/28/01 at 20:44 (051793)

Dr. Chris - I haven't tried the Jade Balm but I have been following the posts here about it. From the sounds of it, it may be too soon to really tell the overall results.
I'm curious - many of us here have had PF for a very long time and have tried tons of treatments and done tons of research to find treatments - I'm a bit surprised that, given your historical success with the Balm, we haven't run across it in our research.

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

Dr. Chris Reynolds. on 6/28/01 at hrmin (051802)

Judy, I'm glad you asked that question. I have known about the potent effects of Jade on inflammatory conditions for nearly five years during which I have used it successfully on thousands of patients. I hasten to add that, as expected of any kind of treatment, that degree of success has been variable. But we don't NOT use something just because it doesn't work all the time. I believe an eclectic approach is all important no matter what kind of therapist one might be. If it works and does no harm, then what's the problem? Perhaps this is one of the fundamental faults of so-called western medicine, that we become so blinded to the 'infallibility' of science and the pharmaceutical industry that we risk the danger of being deprived of relying on our senses. This is where Jade came into my life and rescued me from the straitjacket of pharmaceuticals (many of which I still use by the way). I now use the Jade on a considerable range of conditions, and, because I know when and when not to use it, it is generally quite successful.
As for not telling the world about it, I tried, but in the wrong direction. I tried telling doctors about it on many occasions but the ridicule got me down a bit and didn't do too much for my confidence. I wrote down a number of my experiences along with my theory about it being an immunomodulator and sent it off to a prestigious doctors association of which I am a member. The board rolled around the floor and had difficulty in framing a response. I went to great lengths to spread the word but it fell on deaf ears. So I decided to keep it for my patients, many of whom recovered when nothing else worked.
Three or four weeks ago yet another patient with PF came into my office bearing a rather large and expensive vase for my wife and thanked me for 'curing' her PF that she had had for 10 years in as many days. I then decided to 'come out'. I posted to heelspurs.com and now, thanks to an amazing group of people who contribute to the site and the Jade trial, I'm enjoying the most gratifying period of my life. I know Jade isn't going to help everyone, nothing ever does, but I also know it is going to help quite a number of PF sufferers. The responses to the trial already show that and I am delighted that they are getting better.

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

Bob G. on 6/29/01 at hrmin (051818)

You mean I wasted a year resting my foot in a nightsplint when I couldda had a V-8?

We would need to know how and why it 'works' and a testimonial from somebody we know. Like if Judy S. tried it and liked it and started stealing bases, then we'd be impressed! Go, Judy S.!

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

Julie on 6/29/01 at 03:04 (051828)

Bob, we've actually already had a testimonial, and I think you'd agree it's a trustworthy one, from John H who says he is having the most pain-free time of hispost-PF life since starting to use Jade. There have been a couple of others, too. And I am wondering if using Jade was the reason, or one of the reasons, that I've just managed to tramp around the (very hard) pavements of Paris, and stand looking at pictures in museums for ten days, with no difficulty and no pain at the end of the day.

Chris, what I would like to know, is how lasting are the effects of Jade? If it 'works', is that it, or should one continue using it?

Can you tell us something about your longer-term patients? Have those who have been relieved of pain by using Jade for a week or a month or two remained pain-free? If so, have they remained pain-free by continuing to use Jade, or or have they stopped and still remained pain free? Have any patients come back to you weeks or months or years later with a recurrence of pain?

I'm asking these questions out of interest, not in 'challenging mode'. On the contrary. In answer to yours, I have no problem with the idea that the immune system is implicated in some way with PF - it's tied up with everything that happens to us, health-wise. (In my own work, teaching yoga to cancer patients, the effects on immune functioning of breathing, meditation and relaxation are fundamental. And my own yoga practice, for this reason amongst others, has been a factor in my remaining cancer-free eight years on from breast cancer .)

I was struck yesterday by your surmise that the auto-immune 'attack' on the plantar fascia and the anal opening may be because those two areas are subject to such constant stress. That has the ring of truth.

The questions would be, does Jade Balm really have the immunological properties you are inclined to attribute to it, and is this in fact how it works? I imagine the connection would be very difficult to demonstrate. But although it would be nice to know, and although I'm sure your medical colleagues will go on insisting it has to be proven, if it works, does it matter?

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

Dr. Chris Reynolds on 6/29/01 at 07:09 (051837)

Phew, that's a tough one and it's Friday night in Melbourne. Let's take it step by step.
First, thanks for your support both in your testimonial and for using John as an example of Jade's effectiveness which, for crediblity's sake, I am not in a postiton to do.
Next, the USUAL outcome in my experience is that the pain returns in some form or other from time to time, but is rapidly suppressed with a bit of Jade. However there are others who have no pain at all until they really test their feet. There may be others who have no response at all although that has not yet been my experience. It is bound to happen, but it's not as if I treat thousands of patients with PF.
As to Jade being an immunomodulator ('normaliser') of damaged or inflamed tissue, I have no doubt. I am prepared to defend that position until detractors prove me wrong, and that would be very difficult unless they themselves were prepared to use the Jade in as many and varied conditions as I have. I am NOT saying that Jade has a systemic effect on the immune system, but it does work on the local immunity and it does it very well. For instance, I will soon be posting the results of a small study that was done by veterinary surgeons on animals. The major condition treated was open wounds and in 95% of 55 cases the vets considered the Jade to be either very effective or moderately effective. These 19 vets were chosen at random from around Australia, had no previous knowledge of the product, and are a tough bunch (like doctors) to get any kind of support from, particularly for a new 'herbal' product. Wound healing is essentially a local immunological phenomenon so if Jade has such potent effects in this area (I know it does, I've seen it hundreds of times in my own patients and I don't need double blind crossover trials to tell me so), then it is reasonable to assume that it will also have a positive effect on localised inflammation e.g. PF.
Well, this is Friday night and my brain is fading. Time to open the fridge and see what's inside. Thanks for some very interesting questions and yes Julie, if it works, what DOES it matter?

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

john h on 6/29/01 at 09:25 (051852)

i have personally noted that the Jade (i put it on after getting into bed) has a cooling effect on the entire bottom of my feet. This is way out of proportion to the small amount i put on in a very localized spot. My feet are not under cover. This effect seems to last an hour or so.

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

john h on 6/29/01 at 09:28 (051853)

judy sprinted from 1st to 3rd the other day. you go girl!

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

john a on 6/29/01 at 09:49 (051855)

I personally would like to know which ingredient, or even which component of which ingredient in Jade has the immunomodulatory effect. I think it is more likely that a single component of Jade is responsible for the effect than that there is a syngergistic more-than-the-sum-of-the-parts going on, though that is still a possibility. Have any tests been done to try to isolate which part of Jade is doing the good? (This reminds me of what drug companies do to isolate the effect-producing chemical of plants used by indiginous people to cure diseases. Though there are those who argue that this analytical ripping-apart approach is misguided, being the antithesis of the wholistic, natural ideal, I think it is the best first step on the path to true understanding. Note that I said 'first step'. Subsequent steps should consider the larger and larger nesting and interlocking systems of which the object of inquiry is a part.)

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

Dr. Chris Reynolds on 6/29/01 at hrmin (051894)

I agree John, but it's a long and very expensive process. As for your other questions about Jade I regret I can't divulge that information under any circumstances. I hope you can understand my postion in all this.

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

Dr. Chris Reynolds on 6/29/01 at hrmin (051895)

My experience with the product suggests that it is doing its job. For instance I have used it many times in osteoarthritis. Almost invariably, patients report, usually within a few minutes, a feeling of warmth in the joint. This is followed by increased movement in many cases which suggests to me that the Jade works rapidly on the connective tissue surrounding the joint. This then begs the whole question of the pathologic process underlying osteoarthritis. Is the stiffness really due to the joint surfaces being roughened and locked in position? I don't believe so. It is more likely the connective tissue stiffens. I'll describe a rather dramatic clinical example but I don't expect anyone to believe me. Nonetheless it happened.
A few years ago, a rather plump Scottish woman in her sixties that I had never seen before came in for a prescription. She walked with the aid of a stick and I noticed she had a huge swollen and deformed knee. She told me she hadn't moved it for nine years, could not have a knee joint replacement and that she had to sit up at night to sleep because of the pain. I said to her, 'Look, I've got this cream here that tends to loosen up osteoarthritic joints, would you like to try it?' She replied, 'Och, not wi' a wee bit o cream doctor, surely?'
I rubbed a small amount around the knee joint and chatted to her for a while. It took about ten minutes and she said 'The joint's getting warm.'
Then to my amazement she began to gradually move the joint. Over the next five minutes or so she regained almost complete range of movement in the joint and walked out without her stick under the incredulous gaze of the receptionist and myself. The follow up was that her pain disappeared and she slept beautifully. However, after a couple of weeks the pain came back, but the movement remained. (Please note that the PF response for some reason doesn't follow the same pattern - it's a completely different - degenerative - type of pathology). So I have puzzled over that for a long time.
If we can at least free up people's joints even if the pain is still there, then that increased mobility could help millions of people. The main point though, is that SOMETHING in the Jade makes it happen. Imagine how much more it could help our understanding of another crippling disease if we understood the mechanism.

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

JudyS on 6/29/01 at 19:40 (051897)

yep....I've got a closet full of bases that I've stolen...they don't seem to be doing me any good though!

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

JudyS on 6/29/01 at 19:42 (051898)

now John, I told you that was an accident....don't be ratting me out or Dr. Z'll have my hide...

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

DR. Zuckerman on 6/29/01 at 21:05 (051907)

Wow . go Judy S go . But rest in between the bases. That is one way to throw you out.

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

Dr. Zuckerman on 6/29/01 at 21:06 (051908)

Accident what accident.

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

Julie on 6/30/01 at 04:51 (051931)

Thanks, Chris, for the answers to my questions.

The vets' study sounds interesting. Animals are a good population for trials of this kind, not being subject to the 'placebo effect'.

Hope you enjoyed the Boag and a good night's sleep! We are keeping you quite busy.

All the best, Julie

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

JudyS on 6/30/01 at 23:57 (051962)

No actual accident, Doc. I was at a softball game (2 weeks post-zap)and I can play if I want and/or hit if I want. There was zero pain in my heels so I took a turn at-bat and hit a single. Normally I would then call for a runner to replace me so that I don't have to run...but, because there was no pain, I completely forgot to get a substitute runner! The player after me hit a triple so I had to run around 3 bases. That was OK then but things were stiff and sore the following day so I was confessing my sin to Padre John h. The 'accident' was that I'd never intended to be running bases in the first place! (Does any of this make sense?)

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

nancy s. on 7/01/01 at 00:14 (051965)

of course you makr sense, judy. youre not crazy at all. i swear, i promise. u r perfectly sane. and thats why i wish u would come to me house again

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

JudyS on 7/01/01 at 11:05 (051985)

well, I would consider bringing my crazy self east again if I were guaranteed the same terrific company, the same terrific bottle of vino, and a couple of rooms that need wallpapering....

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

JudyS on 6/28/01 at 20:44 (051793)

Dr. Chris - I haven't tried the Jade Balm but I have been following the posts here about it. From the sounds of it, it may be too soon to really tell the overall results.
I'm curious - many of us here have had PF for a very long time and have tried tons of treatments and done tons of research to find treatments - I'm a bit surprised that, given your historical success with the Balm, we haven't run across it in our research.

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

Dr. Chris Reynolds. on 6/28/01 at hrmin (051802)

Judy, I'm glad you asked that question. I have known about the potent effects of Jade on inflammatory conditions for nearly five years during which I have used it successfully on thousands of patients. I hasten to add that, as expected of any kind of treatment, that degree of success has been variable. But we don't NOT use something just because it doesn't work all the time. I believe an eclectic approach is all important no matter what kind of therapist one might be. If it works and does no harm, then what's the problem? Perhaps this is one of the fundamental faults of so-called western medicine, that we become so blinded to the 'infallibility' of science and the pharmaceutical industry that we risk the danger of being deprived of relying on our senses. This is where Jade came into my life and rescued me from the straitjacket of pharmaceuticals (many of which I still use by the way). I now use the Jade on a considerable range of conditions, and, because I know when and when not to use it, it is generally quite successful.
As for not telling the world about it, I tried, but in the wrong direction. I tried telling doctors about it on many occasions but the ridicule got me down a bit and didn't do too much for my confidence. I wrote down a number of my experiences along with my theory about it being an immunomodulator and sent it off to a prestigious doctors association of which I am a member. The board rolled around the floor and had difficulty in framing a response. I went to great lengths to spread the word but it fell on deaf ears. So I decided to keep it for my patients, many of whom recovered when nothing else worked.
Three or four weeks ago yet another patient with PF came into my office bearing a rather large and expensive vase for my wife and thanked me for 'curing' her PF that she had had for 10 years in as many days. I then decided to 'come out'. I posted to heelspurs.com and now, thanks to an amazing group of people who contribute to the site and the Jade trial, I'm enjoying the most gratifying period of my life. I know Jade isn't going to help everyone, nothing ever does, but I also know it is going to help quite a number of PF sufferers. The responses to the trial already show that and I am delighted that they are getting better.

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

Bob G. on 6/29/01 at hrmin (051818)

You mean I wasted a year resting my foot in a nightsplint when I couldda had a V-8?

We would need to know how and why it 'works' and a testimonial from somebody we know. Like if Judy S. tried it and liked it and started stealing bases, then we'd be impressed! Go, Judy S.!

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

Julie on 6/29/01 at 03:04 (051828)

Bob, we've actually already had a testimonial, and I think you'd agree it's a trustworthy one, from John H who says he is having the most pain-free time of hispost-PF life since starting to use Jade. There have been a couple of others, too. And I am wondering if using Jade was the reason, or one of the reasons, that I've just managed to tramp around the (very hard) pavements of Paris, and stand looking at pictures in museums for ten days, with no difficulty and no pain at the end of the day.

Chris, what I would like to know, is how lasting are the effects of Jade? If it 'works', is that it, or should one continue using it?

Can you tell us something about your longer-term patients? Have those who have been relieved of pain by using Jade for a week or a month or two remained pain-free? If so, have they remained pain-free by continuing to use Jade, or or have they stopped and still remained pain free? Have any patients come back to you weeks or months or years later with a recurrence of pain?

I'm asking these questions out of interest, not in 'challenging mode'. On the contrary. In answer to yours, I have no problem with the idea that the immune system is implicated in some way with PF - it's tied up with everything that happens to us, health-wise. (In my own work, teaching yoga to cancer patients, the effects on immune functioning of breathing, meditation and relaxation are fundamental. And my own yoga practice, for this reason amongst others, has been a factor in my remaining cancer-free eight years on from breast cancer .)

I was struck yesterday by your surmise that the auto-immune 'attack' on the plantar fascia and the anal opening may be because those two areas are subject to such constant stress. That has the ring of truth.

The questions would be, does Jade Balm really have the immunological properties you are inclined to attribute to it, and is this in fact how it works? I imagine the connection would be very difficult to demonstrate. But although it would be nice to know, and although I'm sure your medical colleagues will go on insisting it has to be proven, if it works, does it matter?

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

Dr. Chris Reynolds on 6/29/01 at 07:09 (051837)

Phew, that's a tough one and it's Friday night in Melbourne. Let's take it step by step.
First, thanks for your support both in your testimonial and for using John as an example of Jade's effectiveness which, for crediblity's sake, I am not in a postiton to do.
Next, the USUAL outcome in my experience is that the pain returns in some form or other from time to time, but is rapidly suppressed with a bit of Jade. However there are others who have no pain at all until they really test their feet. There may be others who have no response at all although that has not yet been my experience. It is bound to happen, but it's not as if I treat thousands of patients with PF.
As to Jade being an immunomodulator ('normaliser') of damaged or inflamed tissue, I have no doubt. I am prepared to defend that position until detractors prove me wrong, and that would be very difficult unless they themselves were prepared to use the Jade in as many and varied conditions as I have. I am NOT saying that Jade has a systemic effect on the immune system, but it does work on the local immunity and it does it very well. For instance, I will soon be posting the results of a small study that was done by veterinary surgeons on animals. The major condition treated was open wounds and in 95% of 55 cases the vets considered the Jade to be either very effective or moderately effective. These 19 vets were chosen at random from around Australia, had no previous knowledge of the product, and are a tough bunch (like doctors) to get any kind of support from, particularly for a new 'herbal' product. Wound healing is essentially a local immunological phenomenon so if Jade has such potent effects in this area (I know it does, I've seen it hundreds of times in my own patients and I don't need double blind crossover trials to tell me so), then it is reasonable to assume that it will also have a positive effect on localised inflammation e.g. PF.
Well, this is Friday night and my brain is fading. Time to open the fridge and see what's inside. Thanks for some very interesting questions and yes Julie, if it works, what DOES it matter?

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

john h on 6/29/01 at 09:25 (051852)

i have personally noted that the Jade (i put it on after getting into bed) has a cooling effect on the entire bottom of my feet. This is way out of proportion to the small amount i put on in a very localized spot. My feet are not under cover. This effect seems to last an hour or so.

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

john h on 6/29/01 at 09:28 (051853)

judy sprinted from 1st to 3rd the other day. you go girl!

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

john a on 6/29/01 at 09:49 (051855)

I personally would like to know which ingredient, or even which component of which ingredient in Jade has the immunomodulatory effect. I think it is more likely that a single component of Jade is responsible for the effect than that there is a syngergistic more-than-the-sum-of-the-parts going on, though that is still a possibility. Have any tests been done to try to isolate which part of Jade is doing the good? (This reminds me of what drug companies do to isolate the effect-producing chemical of plants used by indiginous people to cure diseases. Though there are those who argue that this analytical ripping-apart approach is misguided, being the antithesis of the wholistic, natural ideal, I think it is the best first step on the path to true understanding. Note that I said 'first step'. Subsequent steps should consider the larger and larger nesting and interlocking systems of which the object of inquiry is a part.)

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

Dr. Chris Reynolds on 6/29/01 at hrmin (051894)

I agree John, but it's a long and very expensive process. As for your other questions about Jade I regret I can't divulge that information under any circumstances. I hope you can understand my postion in all this.

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

Dr. Chris Reynolds on 6/29/01 at hrmin (051895)

My experience with the product suggests that it is doing its job. For instance I have used it many times in osteoarthritis. Almost invariably, patients report, usually within a few minutes, a feeling of warmth in the joint. This is followed by increased movement in many cases which suggests to me that the Jade works rapidly on the connective tissue surrounding the joint. This then begs the whole question of the pathologic process underlying osteoarthritis. Is the stiffness really due to the joint surfaces being roughened and locked in position? I don't believe so. It is more likely the connective tissue stiffens. I'll describe a rather dramatic clinical example but I don't expect anyone to believe me. Nonetheless it happened.
A few years ago, a rather plump Scottish woman in her sixties that I had never seen before came in for a prescription. She walked with the aid of a stick and I noticed she had a huge swollen and deformed knee. She told me she hadn't moved it for nine years, could not have a knee joint replacement and that she had to sit up at night to sleep because of the pain. I said to her, 'Look, I've got this cream here that tends to loosen up osteoarthritic joints, would you like to try it?' She replied, 'Och, not wi' a wee bit o cream doctor, surely?'
I rubbed a small amount around the knee joint and chatted to her for a while. It took about ten minutes and she said 'The joint's getting warm.'
Then to my amazement she began to gradually move the joint. Over the next five minutes or so she regained almost complete range of movement in the joint and walked out without her stick under the incredulous gaze of the receptionist and myself. The follow up was that her pain disappeared and she slept beautifully. However, after a couple of weeks the pain came back, but the movement remained. (Please note that the PF response for some reason doesn't follow the same pattern - it's a completely different - degenerative - type of pathology). So I have puzzled over that for a long time.
If we can at least free up people's joints even if the pain is still there, then that increased mobility could help millions of people. The main point though, is that SOMETHING in the Jade makes it happen. Imagine how much more it could help our understanding of another crippling disease if we understood the mechanism.

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

JudyS on 6/29/01 at 19:40 (051897)

yep....I've got a closet full of bases that I've stolen...they don't seem to be doing me any good though!

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

JudyS on 6/29/01 at 19:42 (051898)

now John, I told you that was an accident....don't be ratting me out or Dr. Z'll have my hide...

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

DR. Zuckerman on 6/29/01 at 21:05 (051907)

Wow . go Judy S go . But rest in between the bases. That is one way to throw you out.

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

Dr. Zuckerman on 6/29/01 at 21:06 (051908)

Accident what accident.

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

Julie on 6/30/01 at 04:51 (051931)

Thanks, Chris, for the answers to my questions.

The vets' study sounds interesting. Animals are a good population for trials of this kind, not being subject to the 'placebo effect'.

Hope you enjoyed the Boag and a good night's sleep! We are keeping you quite busy.

All the best, Julie

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

JudyS on 6/30/01 at 23:57 (051962)

No actual accident, Doc. I was at a softball game (2 weeks post-zap)and I can play if I want and/or hit if I want. There was zero pain in my heels so I took a turn at-bat and hit a single. Normally I would then call for a runner to replace me so that I don't have to run...but, because there was no pain, I completely forgot to get a substitute runner! The player after me hit a triple so I had to run around 3 bases. That was OK then but things were stiff and sore the following day so I was confessing my sin to Padre John h. The 'accident' was that I'd never intended to be running bases in the first place! (Does any of this make sense?)

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

nancy s. on 7/01/01 at 00:14 (051965)

of course you makr sense, judy. youre not crazy at all. i swear, i promise. u r perfectly sane. and thats why i wish u would come to me house again

Re: PF and Jade 168 Balm

JudyS on 7/01/01 at 11:05 (051985)

well, I would consider bringing my crazy self east again if I were guaranteed the same terrific company, the same terrific bottle of vino, and a couple of rooms that need wallpapering....