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Looking for new treatments

Posted by Steve L. on 8/02/01 at 10:04 (055192)

I haven't checked the boards in some time, and am wondering if any new options have become available. Had surgery 2 1/2 years ago on both feet; it failed, and I have since had to retire at 41 years old. I'm beyond bored and not coping all that well with such a sedentary lifestyle.

Re: Looking for new treatments

Nancy N on 8/02/01 at 10:07 (055195)

Steve--

Have you looked into ESWT? Check out the ESWT page and message board for more information.

Re: Looking for new treatments

Steve L on 8/02/01 at 10:28 (055199)

Nancy, am I to understand that the FDA has approved Ossatron in the US? Last time I was on the boards, (months ago) it was restricted to a few Universities for research. All this may be a mute point, since I am permanently tied to a very combative HMO as a term of my retirement fund, and they have been as much a pain as the last 12 years with PF.

Re: Looking for new treatments

Nancy N on 8/02/01 at 10:45 (055203)

Steve--

Yes, the Ossatron was approved in...October, I think. There's lots of info on the ESWT board. There seems to be some speculation that the Dornier machine will be available sometime soon, too, and at a lower cost.

Dr. Z has a monthly lotto for a free treatment--you might want to consider entering it. Email him your info at footcare@home.com .

Re: Looking for new treatments

Dr. Zuckerman on 8/02/01 at 12:47 (055213)

Yes

ESWT is a very excellent option for failed surgery for heel spur/plantar fascia pain.

Re: Looking for new treatments

Dr. Chris Reynolds on 8/04/01 at hrmin (055489)

Dr. Zuckerman, I think Scott calls that advertising.
Dr. Chris Reynolds.

Re: Looking for new treatments

Scott R on 8/04/01 at 21:38 (055500)

Dr. Reynolds, I only complained about your posts because they were all about the Jade and I haven't been able to see from our visitors that the jade is helping a 'statistically significant' percentage. There is a lot of science supporting ESWT and most of Dr. Z's posts are not about ESWT.

Re: Looking for new treatments

wendyn on 8/04/01 at 22:13 (055502)

That and the fact that it's not HIS ESWT that he mentioned. There is a difference between saying 'you should tape your feet' and saying 'I have tape for feet to sell you'.

Re: Looking for new treatments

Dr. Chris Reynolds on 8/05/01 at hrmin (055524)

I don't know where this idea came from that Jade 168 Balm is my product. It is nothing of the sort, I have to buy it like anyone else. I wish it was my product. I did assist in its development as I have previously stated and one day, when it eventually makes some money, I might receive my just reward. I have also used it on thousands of patients during which time I have accumulated a considerable amount of information about Jade's effects in many areas of medicine. This information however is next to useless without some kind of clinical trial to back it up, hence my request to Scott to recruit participants from this site. I am grateful to him for having agreed to that. I have not received a cent for running the PF trial, in fact it has cost me a packet in postage alone not to mention the enormous amount of time it has taken me. The product I received free which I think most people would agree is reasonable. So why do I do this? It's quite simple, I have a passion for the product because its clinical effectiveness even after five years using it never ceases to amaze me.
Why plantar fasciitis? Because Jade is very safe and easy to apply to the skin, participants can readily report pain levels and because it often works in PF. Sometimes dramatically as has been reported a number of times on this site over the last 6 weeks or so.
BTW if anyone would like a copy of 'Jade for Health Professionals', a document I wrote a while ago detailing some of my experiences with Jade, please email me and I'll send it to you.

Re: Looking for new treatments

Nancy N on 8/05/01 at 12:22 (055537)

Mary Ann--

Scott does have a database of patient progress post-ESWT. I believe there is a link to it from the ESWT page.

Re: Looking for new treatments

Dr. Zuckerman on 8/05/01 at 13:26 (055546)

If you go to the treatment locations you can find lists of patients that have had ESWT treatments. There is also contact information that you can use in addition

Re: Looking for new treatments

Mary AnnS on 8/05/01 at 13:57 (055548)

Thanks Nancy I found it. Looks like pretty good results.

Re: Looking for new treatments

Dr. Chris Reynolds on 8/06/01 at hrmin (055625)

Scott, I suppose it comes down to what you call 'statistically significant'. By the same token, I hardly think it fair for you to say (29 July) 'You ( I ) claim 70% of patients are getting significant pain relief, but by my interpretation of the responses I'm getting from 23 patients, I'd say it's closer to 15%.'
I would like to know how you arrived at this figure.
Of the 24 participants in your database, 11 (45.8%) have reported an increase in activity, with 6 (25%) reporting an increase in activity of 3 points or more - which must be fairly close to a significant result.
Also, 16 participants (66.7%) have reported a reduction in pain, (close to my trial's 64.2% significant improvement) with 6 (25%) reporting a 3 point or greater reduction in pain. Considering that a number of participants have not yet provided before and after results, these figures could be even better.
All considered, the average increase of activity from 4.7 to 5.7 is an improvement of 21.3% and similarly, the average reduction in pain is 31.6%. Allowing for placebo effects, the results are, to my thinking, significant.
If we also bear in mind that there has been a steady overall improvement over the course of the trial, and an average Satisfaction Rating of 5.7 (with 12 (50%) rating it at 6 or above) we must agree that it is proving beneficial to some of the trial participants.
When I talk about the results of my Jade 168 Balm trial, I am recording the average reduction of pain over various periods of the trial. The table below gives the outcome at four weeks. This shows that 64.2% of participants had a 'significant' improvement in pain, i.e. greater than 20 % which must, by any measure be considered a 'significant' result. If I added all the others who have used the Jade to considerable benefit outside the trial during this period, my figure would be even higher.

Jade 168 Balm PF Trial Results At week 4. N=28
% Reduction or Increase in Pain Levels
n %
0 or -ve7 25.0
1-20% 3 10.7
21-40% 7 25.0
41-60% 7 25.0
61-80% 2 7.1
81-100% 2 7.1

i.e. 64.2% of participants have had from 21-100% reduction in pain. I would call this 'significant'.

I would think most visitors to this site assume that the main reason you maintain Heelspurs.com is to help PF sufferers in any way you can with their problem(s). Therefore, if the Jade, which is safe, inexpensive and effective to the extent of say, 60 percent (even 15 percent) of patients receiving some or significant relief of pain, don't you think your visitors would like to know about it?

Re: Looking for new treatments

Steve L. on 8/10/01 at 00:41 (056123)

All this debate may be viewed as constructive, but we seem to have lost ourselves in the process. My question was, and still remains, 'Is there something new in the arena of PF treatment?' I and my wheelchair would like to know.
Respectfully, Steve Lockard

Re: Looking for new treatments

john h on 8/10/01 at 09:33 (056150)

steve: you are correct there are so many suggestions for treatment on the board that you can get lost in the triva and debates. it may be that one just needs the right combanation of some of these treatments to get some results. other than ESWT which is not reallly new i have read of nothing that is a magic bullet. there is a guy at my health club that was in a wheelchair for 3 years. i have never asked him what he did but for the past three years i see him running around the track 7 days a week probably at a 7.5 minute per mile pace for an hour. he is 60 plus. each year someone on the board seems to have recovered and it is never from any one special or new treatment but from a combination of things. i think looking for one new treatment that will cure you will not give you the hope and encourgement you need. i have not walked in your shoes so to speak but keep on plugging away. there have been a number of people who have posted that have been on crutches and in wheelchairs. this disease really sucks but you got to keep on trying. my best to you!

Re: Looking for new treatments

Dr. Chris Reynolds on 8/12/01 at hrmin (056501)

Steve, yes there is. Check my website at http://www.jadepage.com and let me know what you think.

Re: Looking for new treatments

Nancy N on 8/02/01 at 10:07 (055195)

Steve--

Have you looked into ESWT? Check out the ESWT page and message board for more information.

Re: Looking for new treatments

Steve L on 8/02/01 at 10:28 (055199)

Nancy, am I to understand that the FDA has approved Ossatron in the US? Last time I was on the boards, (months ago) it was restricted to a few Universities for research. All this may be a mute point, since I am permanently tied to a very combative HMO as a term of my retirement fund, and they have been as much a pain as the last 12 years with PF.

Re: Looking for new treatments

Nancy N on 8/02/01 at 10:45 (055203)

Steve--

Yes, the Ossatron was approved in...October, I think. There's lots of info on the ESWT board. There seems to be some speculation that the Dornier machine will be available sometime soon, too, and at a lower cost.

Dr. Z has a monthly lotto for a free treatment--you might want to consider entering it. Email him your info at footcare@home.com .

Re: Looking for new treatments

Dr. Zuckerman on 8/02/01 at 12:47 (055213)

Yes

ESWT is a very excellent option for failed surgery for heel spur/plantar fascia pain.

Re: Looking for new treatments

Dr. Chris Reynolds on 8/04/01 at hrmin (055489)

Dr. Zuckerman, I think Scott calls that advertising.
Dr. Chris Reynolds.

Re: Looking for new treatments

Scott R on 8/04/01 at 21:38 (055500)

Dr. Reynolds, I only complained about your posts because they were all about the Jade and I haven't been able to see from our visitors that the jade is helping a 'statistically significant' percentage. There is a lot of science supporting ESWT and most of Dr. Z's posts are not about ESWT.

Re: Looking for new treatments

wendyn on 8/04/01 at 22:13 (055502)

That and the fact that it's not HIS ESWT that he mentioned. There is a difference between saying 'you should tape your feet' and saying 'I have tape for feet to sell you'.

Re: Looking for new treatments

Dr. Chris Reynolds on 8/05/01 at hrmin (055524)

I don't know where this idea came from that Jade 168 Balm is my product. It is nothing of the sort, I have to buy it like anyone else. I wish it was my product. I did assist in its development as I have previously stated and one day, when it eventually makes some money, I might receive my just reward. I have also used it on thousands of patients during which time I have accumulated a considerable amount of information about Jade's effects in many areas of medicine. This information however is next to useless without some kind of clinical trial to back it up, hence my request to Scott to recruit participants from this site. I am grateful to him for having agreed to that. I have not received a cent for running the PF trial, in fact it has cost me a packet in postage alone not to mention the enormous amount of time it has taken me. The product I received free which I think most people would agree is reasonable. So why do I do this? It's quite simple, I have a passion for the product because its clinical effectiveness even after five years using it never ceases to amaze me.
Why plantar fasciitis? Because Jade is very safe and easy to apply to the skin, participants can readily report pain levels and because it often works in PF. Sometimes dramatically as has been reported a number of times on this site over the last 6 weeks or so.
BTW if anyone would like a copy of 'Jade for Health Professionals', a document I wrote a while ago detailing some of my experiences with Jade, please email me and I'll send it to you.

Re: Looking for new treatments

Nancy N on 8/05/01 at 12:22 (055537)

Mary Ann--

Scott does have a database of patient progress post-ESWT. I believe there is a link to it from the ESWT page.

Re: Looking for new treatments

Dr. Zuckerman on 8/05/01 at 13:26 (055546)

If you go to the treatment locations you can find lists of patients that have had ESWT treatments. There is also contact information that you can use in addition

Re: Looking for new treatments

Mary AnnS on 8/05/01 at 13:57 (055548)

Thanks Nancy I found it. Looks like pretty good results.

Re: Looking for new treatments

Dr. Chris Reynolds on 8/06/01 at hrmin (055625)

Scott, I suppose it comes down to what you call 'statistically significant'. By the same token, I hardly think it fair for you to say (29 July) 'You ( I ) claim 70% of patients are getting significant pain relief, but by my interpretation of the responses I'm getting from 23 patients, I'd say it's closer to 15%.'
I would like to know how you arrived at this figure.
Of the 24 participants in your database, 11 (45.8%) have reported an increase in activity, with 6 (25%) reporting an increase in activity of 3 points or more - which must be fairly close to a significant result.
Also, 16 participants (66.7%) have reported a reduction in pain, (close to my trial's 64.2% significant improvement) with 6 (25%) reporting a 3 point or greater reduction in pain. Considering that a number of participants have not yet provided before and after results, these figures could be even better.
All considered, the average increase of activity from 4.7 to 5.7 is an improvement of 21.3% and similarly, the average reduction in pain is 31.6%. Allowing for placebo effects, the results are, to my thinking, significant.
If we also bear in mind that there has been a steady overall improvement over the course of the trial, and an average Satisfaction Rating of 5.7 (with 12 (50%) rating it at 6 or above) we must agree that it is proving beneficial to some of the trial participants.
When I talk about the results of my Jade 168 Balm trial, I am recording the average reduction of pain over various periods of the trial. The table below gives the outcome at four weeks. This shows that 64.2% of participants had a 'significant' improvement in pain, i.e. greater than 20 % which must, by any measure be considered a 'significant' result. If I added all the others who have used the Jade to considerable benefit outside the trial during this period, my figure would be even higher.

Jade 168 Balm PF Trial Results At week 4. N=28
% Reduction or Increase in Pain Levels
n %
0 or -ve7 25.0
1-20% 3 10.7
21-40% 7 25.0
41-60% 7 25.0
61-80% 2 7.1
81-100% 2 7.1

i.e. 64.2% of participants have had from 21-100% reduction in pain. I would call this 'significant'.

I would think most visitors to this site assume that the main reason you maintain Heelspurs.com is to help PF sufferers in any way you can with their problem(s). Therefore, if the Jade, which is safe, inexpensive and effective to the extent of say, 60 percent (even 15 percent) of patients receiving some or significant relief of pain, don't you think your visitors would like to know about it?

Re: Looking for new treatments

Steve L. on 8/10/01 at 00:41 (056123)

All this debate may be viewed as constructive, but we seem to have lost ourselves in the process. My question was, and still remains, 'Is there something new in the arena of PF treatment?' I and my wheelchair would like to know.
Respectfully, Steve Lockard

Re: Looking for new treatments

john h on 8/10/01 at 09:33 (056150)

steve: you are correct there are so many suggestions for treatment on the board that you can get lost in the triva and debates. it may be that one just needs the right combanation of some of these treatments to get some results. other than ESWT which is not reallly new i have read of nothing that is a magic bullet. there is a guy at my health club that was in a wheelchair for 3 years. i have never asked him what he did but for the past three years i see him running around the track 7 days a week probably at a 7.5 minute per mile pace for an hour. he is 60 plus. each year someone on the board seems to have recovered and it is never from any one special or new treatment but from a combination of things. i think looking for one new treatment that will cure you will not give you the hope and encourgement you need. i have not walked in your shoes so to speak but keep on plugging away. there have been a number of people who have posted that have been on crutches and in wheelchairs. this disease really sucks but you got to keep on trying. my best to you!

Re: Looking for new treatments

Dr. Chris Reynolds on 8/12/01 at hrmin (056501)

Steve, yes there is. Check my website at http://www.jadepage.com and let me know what you think.