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Weight loss surgery

Posted by Kim K. on 8/13/01 at 18:28 (056634)

I was wondering if anyone with chronic PF has gone so far as to have weight loss surgery such as a gastric by-pass, I have been thinking that even if I undergo ESWT or PF release surgery that my Pf will return if I remain overweight. A retired Podiatrist friend of my husband told me that no matter what I do for my PF it can come back if I don't lose the extra weight. I know that diets do not work for permanent weight loss and have tried them all, they only made me fatter in the end. I cannot do weight bearing exercise anymore and I believe that without the exercise, I am not going to lose weight. I have been on other websites educating myself on weight loss sugeries (spotlight.com, Carnie wilson story...) I feel that my PF is a complication of my being overweight along with other factors. I am 5'3' and weight around 200lbs. in 1997, I weighed 135 and put this weight on over the past 4 years or so, especially after I quit smoking. My metabolism is a mess after many years of yo yo diets. I would love to have some helpful feedback.

Re: Weight loss surgery

Scott R on 8/13/01 at 18:57 (056638)

The most recent JAMA article on weight loss was big on surgery, so I would definitely consider it.

Re: Weight loss surgery

Kim K. on 8/13/01 at 19:09 (056640)

Where can I get this most recent JAMA article?

Re: JAMA articles on weight

Scott R on 8/13/01 at 20:35 (056660)

http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v283n24/rfull/jxr00003.html

http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v284n13/ffull/jlt1004-4.html

Re: Weight loss surgery

Nancy N on 8/13/01 at hrmin (056667)

Kim--

I have heard horror stories about weight loss with side effects up to and including death. It is not something to be considered lightly.

For the past six months or so, I have been dealing with my compulsive eating disorder. If you have been a yo-yo dieter, you might want to look into the signs and symptoms of compulsive eating and see if it fits your patterns. In general, the problem has absolutely nothing to do with food or physical hunger, it occurs when you are eating to fill an emotional void. Compulsive eating is much like anorexia (the emotional issues behind it are mostly the same), except that it manifests itself in the opposite way. While most doctors are aware of anorexia and will treat it seriously, awareness of compulsive eating is low, so you may not hear about it from your doctor. Mine brushed me off when I mentioned it to her and tried to tell me it was only 'habit.' May be, but it's based in a lot of emotional baggage that got me into the habit in the first place. Yo-yo dieting tends only to exacerbate the problem.

If any of this sounds familiar or worth investigating, there are a lot of good places to go for information and advice.

The first one I would recommend is the Geneen Roth website on ThriveOnline. It's at http://www.thriveonline.oxygen.com/weight/roth/index.html and there is a lot of good information on the site. Geneen Roth is one of the pioneers of dealing with compulsive eating and I highly recommend her books if you think they would apply to you. There is also a message board on this site, but I don't think it has a core of regular posters like this site, so I don't know how much use it would be to you.

http://www.edreferral.com also has some good information. So does
http://www.eatingdisorderscentre.co.uk/index2.htm (which is largely about a particular hospital program, but the information is good)

The National Institutes of Health has a division which deals with eating disorders. Their page on compulsive eating is at http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health/nutrit/pubs/binge.htm

There's also a webring of info at http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/mali/18/bingering.html (I did not check out the whole ring, but even if it's just this one site, there should be some food for thought available)

You can try Overeaters Anonymous, but they seem steeped in the idea that there is no possibility for recovery from compulsive eating, which I find dismaying. To me, that does not seem constructive, but it might at least get you on your way (and you might like their approach more than I did).

I've found that support is a necessity in dealing with this problem. Without the knowledge that I am not alone and the only person going through these problems and stages, I would have quit days after I started. There are two mailing lists I belong to that have been vital to my success so far. Both are administered through Yahoo Groups. One is an established list that includes people at all levels of experience with the disorder. You can subscribe to it by sending email to breaking_free_gr-subscribe@yahoogroups.com .

The other list is one that I started for people who are just starting to figure out what breaking free from compulsive eating is all about. (There are a few of us who subscribe to both lists--and I'm sure there are many other lists out there as well). You can subscribe to the list by sending mail to bfce-subscribe@yahoogroups.com .

I won't kid you, this process does take time--it is a bumpy road, and while I have lost weight, it is not a miracle diet and the pounds will not just fall off of you. There is emotional work to be done, but once you have gone through it, you will be free of the urges to eat when you are not hungry and to plan your life around food (again, I am speaking generally here, and it's possible that these descriptions may not apply to you). On the other hand, if you are a compulsive eater and have weight-loss surgery, it will not change the fact that you are a compulsive eater. You will still be wrestling with those behaviors, whether you are aware of them or not. If you overeat once you've had the surgery, there can be extremely serious gastric problems, including death.

If you'd like more information or want someone to talk to about it, feel free to send me an email. There are options other than weight-loss surgery, which is so drastic and has such potential to wreak havoc on your physical health. Please do a LOT of research into all your options before trying the surgery. It really should be an absolute last resort.

I hope this is of some help to you (or to others on the board, if it does not apply to you).

Re: Weight loss surgery

john h on 8/14/01 at 09:53 (056690)

like pf i have seen a lot of literature on weight loss surgery that was scary. i clearly understand that some peoples health are so bad that this is perhaps a life saving option. i have an acquaintence who owned and ran a deli. I suspect he weighed near 300 lbs. he was about 30 years old. he had to give up his business because of his feet. i never did know what his foot problems were as i had never heard of PF. a few months ago he stopped by my office and i did not recognize him as he had lost 130 lbs. a 50 year lold lady in the office next to me has lost in excess of 100 lb in the past year, she is a computer consultant. each time i see her i am amazed and she is so very proud of herself. at about 5' tall she now is approaching skinny. it can be done.

Re: Weight loss surgery

john h on 8/14/01 at 09:58 (056691)

some people handle stress and anxiety by eating to much and some stop eating. wonder how the mind makes that selection process. PF sure does create anxiety and stress and stops the exercise programs and gives us further problems (weight) to deal with.. i could fly with a broken hand but i sure could not push a hard right rudder with PF.

Re: Weight loss surgery/Bad Effects Also!

Donna M on 8/14/01 at 10:22 (056698)

My sister had this done a few years ago and it almost killed her. The surgeon left her with only 18 inches of intestines, to be used. She lost weight and looked really good, but then she couldn't 'stop' losing weight. Within 5 minutes of eating, the food would be eliminated from her body.
The doctor tried to get her built back up to undo the surgery, but he couldn't and had to take her to surgery anyway. He had to take a chance on undoing the surgery as we were going to lose her anyway, if he didn't.
Thank God it wasn't her time and we have her today!
Even going through all that, she is now bigger than she was before the initial surgery and we don't care if she is big or not, we love her no matter!!!
Through all this she is one of the happiest, 'heaviest', and lovingest people you could ever meet!!!

Re: Weight loss surgery/Bad Effects Also!

Nancy N on 8/14/01 at 11:14 (056708)

Donna--

I am so sorry to hear about your sister! I think she is very lucky, my impression has always been that once it's done, weight-loss surgery cannot be undone.

Do feel free to give her the information I posted last night, if you think she might be interested. (Again, while I do believe that most overweight people are undiagnosed compulsive eaters, there are certainly those who are not, so I am not trying to judge anyone or tell them what's 'wrong' with them--that's up to each of us to decide).

Re: is there any exercise you can do?

elliott on 8/14/01 at 15:42 (056739)

For example, cycling (stationary bike if necessary) or swimming? If yes, I'd try those first. The cycling is an especially attractive thing, since there is little pressure on your feet while doing it and you can do it in your house as well as outside. If standing is no problem, also try out an elliptical trainer at a fitness store; it is nonimpact. After a careful buildup, assuming you are motivated (and you can be), you can lose tons of weight, and the diet then falls into place by itself. I don't like the surgical approach at all; from what I've heard way too risky. To me that would be the last option when truly nothing is left.

Re: is there any exercise you can do?

Kim K. on 8/14/01 at 20:45 (056753)

Thanks everyone for your feedback, I do swim and have been thinking about getting a recumbant stationery bike for home. My husband is tired of all the unused exercise equipment we have had over the years, I recently gave my cleaning lady a $500 Healthrider that no body liked. I also had my beach cruising bike fixed up, however my neighborhood is not so safe to ride in and I am often housebound with my 5 year old daughter. I am going to try to talk my husband into getting a stationery bike for me, it will be alot cheaper than weight loss surgery.

Re: Weight loss surgery

Kim K. on 8/14/01 at 21:04 (056755)

Thanks Nancy for the info, I am a huge fan of Geneen Roth and have read all her books. I even have her Breaking free workshops on tape. I also believe in the non-diet approach. It has just been lately that I have been thinking about weight loss surgery because I have been in so much pain with my PF. I am tired of the doctors blaming my condition on my being overweight and want to be able to walk without pain all the time. I also suffer from sleep apnea and use a CPAP machine every night along with my night splints ( not very romantic).I have also been to Overeaters anonymous and know that I eat for emotional reasons I am very familiar with 12 step programs and was very disappointed in the OA in my area. I have been working on myself with the help of a therapist for almost 5 years
the process has been slow. The chronic PF that I have has been coloring my whole outlook on things, I also know that I tend to turn to food when I am in pain or fatigued lately. I need my energy because I have a special needs child who is extremely active, she doesnt understand that mommy has trouble keeping up with her and is in pain. I will check into the breaking free groups online that you mentioned.

Re: is there any exercise you can do?

Nancy N on 8/14/01 at 21:28 (056757)

Good for you, Kim! I think the recumbent bike is an excellent idea--my stationary bike is not one of the recumbents, but I do pretty well with it. I used a recumbent bike in PT two years ago and liked it, too. And I think it'll be a lot better for you, physically and mentally (exercise really does clear out the cobwebs in your brain, somehow), than the surgery.

Re: Weight loss surgery

Nancy N on 8/14/01 at hrmin (056758)

Kim--

I hear you, I really do. It has been a while since I was at my lowest point with PF, but I recall the days when I thought I would just cry until I cried the life out of me. I was really blaming myself for a lot of it then, too, though I am not convinced that my weight was the main contributing factor--I certainly believe it didn't help in the healing process, but I wore special shoes when I was a kid and I think I was a good candidate from the beginning, regardless of my weight. And the PF pain is so insidious because it limits the exercise options just when you need them most. Throw the eating disorder on top of that and things can get really tough.

Do check out the mailing lists--I've found them to be incredibly helpful. I wasn't kidding when I said I think I'd have lasted about a day if I'd tried to do this completely on my own. And I have been at it for seven months now. Total loss so far is in the 25 pound neighborhood, which is not setting any records for speed, but at least I have confidence in the idea that I will probably never see those 25 pounds again.

Like I said, feel free to email me if you want. I'm far from being an expert, but if there's anything I can do to help, I'm happy to do so.

Re: Weight loss surgery/To Nancy N

Donna M on 8/15/01 at 01:25 (056771)

Oh,I didn't and don't think you are trying to judge anyone, by any means!! I had only posted this to let Kim know that there is also a negative side, just so she would know!
As far as my sister goes, bless her heart, she is a compulsive eater, a taster, and a 'fantastic' cook!!! With all the weight, she also has bad knees and feet! She also says she doesn't eat much, but if you kept tabs on her, she snacks all the time!! lol Hers 'is' her own fault, and she knows it, but just doesn't have the willpower to do anything about it!
She tried, with the gastric bypass, but it was a total disaster, so she just gave up!
Losing weight is hard to do, unless you really set your mind to it! I know from experience as I am a diet pro! I've lost the same 20 pounds several times! I also got big when I was pregnant years and years ago and had to lose about 70 pounds, twice! (I have 2 daughters and weighed the exact same the day each of them were born, 3½ years apart!) That may not sound like much to alot of people, but I am only 5 ft tall!! :)
Sad to say, I had my thyroid tested and it is normal! I sure was hoping I could blame my 20 extra on something besides my weakness!! lol
Good luck to any and everyone trying to lose!! We all need it!! lol

Re: is there any exercise you can do?

Julie on 8/15/01 at 02:43 (056775)

Hi Kim

The recumbent bike is an excellent idea and I hope you can cajole your husband into getting you one.

How often do you swim, and for how long? 30 to 40 minutes steady swimming, 4-5 times a week, should have a beneficial effect on your heart rate, metabolism, and state of mine. I've found this very helpful when I've been trying to shed weight. And as Nancy says, it clears the cobwebs.

Julie

Re: Weight loss surgery/To Nancy N

Nancy N on 8/15/01 at hrmin (056793)

Donna--

I'm glad you didn't think so, I didn't want anyone to take what I was saying as a judgment. I am only speaking from my own experience.

Has your sister ever read Geneen Roth's books? Does she have email? It's very important to understand that dealing with compulsive eating really has nothing to do with willpower at all--it's about why she is overeating in the first place. It's a shift in thinking and behavior, based in large part on dealing with the emotional issues that cause her to overeat. It may be a habit for her now, but it probably didn't start out that way.

If she has email, I would really recommend the mailing lists I mentioned earlier to her. (They're the two I belong to, but there are plenty of others out there, I'm sure). It would probably help if she reads the Geneen Roth books, too. But she is not alone, and she is not the only one out there dealing with these issues. She certainly is welcome to email me if she would like to, too.

Re: is there any exercise you can do?

john a on 8/15/01 at 13:48 (056800)

Instead of getting a dedicated exercise bike, if you already have a regular outdoor bike that you like, I recommend the Blackburn Defender Trainer (or one of the other brands of indoor trainers). They are simple, sturdy contraptions that allow you to mount your back wheel in them, and provide resistance with magnets and smoothness with a heavy flywheel. They will work with any bike with a quick-release back wheel. It takes all of 60 seconds to attach or detach your bike to one. Very convenient. Cost: $200 - $300.

Re: is there any exercise you can do?

Kim K. on 8/15/01 at 14:42 (056807)

Thanks everyone for your valuable feedback, I am feeling alot more hopeful now!

Re: NancyN - obesity

CatherineL on 8/15/01 at 15:42 (056813)

Hi,

In the literature that I've read through the last few years the infomration actually shows that a majorty of obese people are NOT compusive eaters.

Some, of course are, but according to what I've read, seen with others and experienced myself, most are not. It's a misconception that most obese people are that way because they eat more than average and do less than average activity.

I've gained 50lbs in the last few years on various diets (weight watchers, protien power, dietician, etc, etc, etc. ) containing approx 1600 cal/day. This is the same amount of calories that I ate a few years earlier that got me down to 110lbs., I now gain weight on. There is very little difference in my activity level, lifestyle, etc. The only changes from then to now is the birth of a child, medications, & severe migraines.

If you read recent research on obestity, some is indicating that obese people are not living much differently than someone who isn't obese.

Speaking from experience
Catherine

Re: NancyN - obesity

Nancy N on 8/15/01 at 21:32 (056854)

Catherine--

I did say that there are exceptions to the rule, and that what I'm talking about does not apply to everyone. Genetics, certain medications, and other conditions (thyroid, etc) can certainly affect metabolism. But I do believe that there are a lot of overweight people out there who have a treatable disorder but don't know it, as I didn't, and are stuck in the belief that there is something wrong with them because they feel compelled to eat when they are not hungry (many don't even know what true hunger feels like). They feel that they are 'bad' people because they don't seem to have any willpower, when willpower has nothing at all to do with the problem. I just want to make people aware that there may be other methods of dealing with the weight that could benefit them.

There is a serious lack of awareness on the part of medical professtionals about the causes of excess weight, be they psychological or physical. Misunderstandings abound--hence the need for groups that work for fat acceptance, etc. The psychological impact of views like those that have recently been expressed on this board is profound, regardless of the cause of the excess weight.

Re: NancyN - obesity

Kim K. on 8/16/01 at 13:59 (056910)

I didn't mean to trigger such a huge response when I first expressed how desperate I was feeling and cosidering weight loss surgery. My last podiatrist seemed to want to blame my weight because he couldn't fix my PF, my new podiatrist that I saw yesterday treats alot of PF cases and does surgery and now ESWT as well, he did not mention my weight at all, but came up with solutions for treating my PF!!!I believe we live in a very 'FATPHOBIC' society and that makes me very sad. I have been both thin and fat and notice the difference in how people treat me now that I have gained weight. I must say that what I have read on this message board has been very empowering. Nancy, I will see you on the breaking free site, I joined last night, you will find me under Gratefulkim2001. Thanks again.

Re: NancyN - obesity

Nancy N on 8/16/01 at 16:42 (056926)

Kim--

I wouldn't worry about the response you got to your post--I think that the discussion might have done a lot of good for those who've read it. Like I said, I know that there are plenty of reasons for excess weight, and I am glad that I've had an opportunity to talk about compulsive eating since it is the unspoken eating disorder. But I do know that there are other causes. I just think that it's important for people to know that it might also be an eating disorder. It isn't something you can treat until you acknowledge the correct cause.

I'm looking forward to seeing you on the list! I hope you get as much out of it as I have.

Re: Kim, be glad

Julie on 8/17/01 at 01:30 (056962)

Kim, you should be pleased that your initial question has inspired such a response. The ensuing discussion has been good and thoughtful, the kind that helps people. For everyone who contributes to a thread, there are dozens more - maybe even hundreds - reading every word, and some of those may find some of the help that they need through it. I'm glad you've decided to join the breaking free site and I hope it will give you the inspiration, motivation and insight to move towards your goal.

Nancy, I'm glad you took this opportunity to write about compulsive eating. It IS the 'hidden eating disorder', and it affects more people, men as well as women, than probably anyone knows.

We've 'talked' about this before, so you know that although I'm no fan of diets, having suffered in the past from being a 'yo-yo', I do think well of Weight Watchers, which changed its 'punitive' ethos to one of cheerful encouragement some time ago. What they offer is simple guidance on shifting to a sensible, healthy eating plan and a way of keeping to it, with support along the way. Even when there are emotional issues to be dealt with, I think WW can be a useful adjunct. Seeing those steady pound-a-week results can be motivating in staying with the emotional stuff.

Re: Weight loss surgery

Scott R on 8/13/01 at 18:57 (056638)

The most recent JAMA article on weight loss was big on surgery, so I would definitely consider it.

Re: Weight loss surgery

Kim K. on 8/13/01 at 19:09 (056640)

Where can I get this most recent JAMA article?

Re: JAMA articles on weight

Scott R on 8/13/01 at 20:35 (056660)

http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v283n24/rfull/jxr00003.html

http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v284n13/ffull/jlt1004-4.html

Re: Weight loss surgery

Nancy N on 8/13/01 at hrmin (056667)

Kim--

I have heard horror stories about weight loss with side effects up to and including death. It is not something to be considered lightly.

For the past six months or so, I have been dealing with my compulsive eating disorder. If you have been a yo-yo dieter, you might want to look into the signs and symptoms of compulsive eating and see if it fits your patterns. In general, the problem has absolutely nothing to do with food or physical hunger, it occurs when you are eating to fill an emotional void. Compulsive eating is much like anorexia (the emotional issues behind it are mostly the same), except that it manifests itself in the opposite way. While most doctors are aware of anorexia and will treat it seriously, awareness of compulsive eating is low, so you may not hear about it from your doctor. Mine brushed me off when I mentioned it to her and tried to tell me it was only 'habit.' May be, but it's based in a lot of emotional baggage that got me into the habit in the first place. Yo-yo dieting tends only to exacerbate the problem.

If any of this sounds familiar or worth investigating, there are a lot of good places to go for information and advice.

The first one I would recommend is the Geneen Roth website on ThriveOnline. It's at http://www.thriveonline.oxygen.com/weight/roth/index.html and there is a lot of good information on the site. Geneen Roth is one of the pioneers of dealing with compulsive eating and I highly recommend her books if you think they would apply to you. There is also a message board on this site, but I don't think it has a core of regular posters like this site, so I don't know how much use it would be to you.

http://www.edreferral.com also has some good information. So does
http://www.eatingdisorderscentre.co.uk/index2.htm (which is largely about a particular hospital program, but the information is good)

The National Institutes of Health has a division which deals with eating disorders. Their page on compulsive eating is at http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health/nutrit/pubs/binge.htm

There's also a webring of info at http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/mali/18/bingering.html (I did not check out the whole ring, but even if it's just this one site, there should be some food for thought available)

You can try Overeaters Anonymous, but they seem steeped in the idea that there is no possibility for recovery from compulsive eating, which I find dismaying. To me, that does not seem constructive, but it might at least get you on your way (and you might like their approach more than I did).

I've found that support is a necessity in dealing with this problem. Without the knowledge that I am not alone and the only person going through these problems and stages, I would have quit days after I started. There are two mailing lists I belong to that have been vital to my success so far. Both are administered through Yahoo Groups. One is an established list that includes people at all levels of experience with the disorder. You can subscribe to it by sending email to breaking_free_gr-subscribe@yahoogroups.com .

The other list is one that I started for people who are just starting to figure out what breaking free from compulsive eating is all about. (There are a few of us who subscribe to both lists--and I'm sure there are many other lists out there as well). You can subscribe to the list by sending mail to bfce-subscribe@yahoogroups.com .

I won't kid you, this process does take time--it is a bumpy road, and while I have lost weight, it is not a miracle diet and the pounds will not just fall off of you. There is emotional work to be done, but once you have gone through it, you will be free of the urges to eat when you are not hungry and to plan your life around food (again, I am speaking generally here, and it's possible that these descriptions may not apply to you). On the other hand, if you are a compulsive eater and have weight-loss surgery, it will not change the fact that you are a compulsive eater. You will still be wrestling with those behaviors, whether you are aware of them or not. If you overeat once you've had the surgery, there can be extremely serious gastric problems, including death.

If you'd like more information or want someone to talk to about it, feel free to send me an email. There are options other than weight-loss surgery, which is so drastic and has such potential to wreak havoc on your physical health. Please do a LOT of research into all your options before trying the surgery. It really should be an absolute last resort.

I hope this is of some help to you (or to others on the board, if it does not apply to you).

Re: Weight loss surgery

john h on 8/14/01 at 09:53 (056690)

like pf i have seen a lot of literature on weight loss surgery that was scary. i clearly understand that some peoples health are so bad that this is perhaps a life saving option. i have an acquaintence who owned and ran a deli. I suspect he weighed near 300 lbs. he was about 30 years old. he had to give up his business because of his feet. i never did know what his foot problems were as i had never heard of PF. a few months ago he stopped by my office and i did not recognize him as he had lost 130 lbs. a 50 year lold lady in the office next to me has lost in excess of 100 lb in the past year, she is a computer consultant. each time i see her i am amazed and she is so very proud of herself. at about 5' tall she now is approaching skinny. it can be done.

Re: Weight loss surgery

john h on 8/14/01 at 09:58 (056691)

some people handle stress and anxiety by eating to much and some stop eating. wonder how the mind makes that selection process. PF sure does create anxiety and stress and stops the exercise programs and gives us further problems (weight) to deal with.. i could fly with a broken hand but i sure could not push a hard right rudder with PF.

Re: Weight loss surgery/Bad Effects Also!

Donna M on 8/14/01 at 10:22 (056698)

My sister had this done a few years ago and it almost killed her. The surgeon left her with only 18 inches of intestines, to be used. She lost weight and looked really good, but then she couldn't 'stop' losing weight. Within 5 minutes of eating, the food would be eliminated from her body.
The doctor tried to get her built back up to undo the surgery, but he couldn't and had to take her to surgery anyway. He had to take a chance on undoing the surgery as we were going to lose her anyway, if he didn't.
Thank God it wasn't her time and we have her today!
Even going through all that, she is now bigger than she was before the initial surgery and we don't care if she is big or not, we love her no matter!!!
Through all this she is one of the happiest, 'heaviest', and lovingest people you could ever meet!!!

Re: Weight loss surgery/Bad Effects Also!

Nancy N on 8/14/01 at 11:14 (056708)

Donna--

I am so sorry to hear about your sister! I think she is very lucky, my impression has always been that once it's done, weight-loss surgery cannot be undone.

Do feel free to give her the information I posted last night, if you think she might be interested. (Again, while I do believe that most overweight people are undiagnosed compulsive eaters, there are certainly those who are not, so I am not trying to judge anyone or tell them what's 'wrong' with them--that's up to each of us to decide).

Re: is there any exercise you can do?

elliott on 8/14/01 at 15:42 (056739)

For example, cycling (stationary bike if necessary) or swimming? If yes, I'd try those first. The cycling is an especially attractive thing, since there is little pressure on your feet while doing it and you can do it in your house as well as outside. If standing is no problem, also try out an elliptical trainer at a fitness store; it is nonimpact. After a careful buildup, assuming you are motivated (and you can be), you can lose tons of weight, and the diet then falls into place by itself. I don't like the surgical approach at all; from what I've heard way too risky. To me that would be the last option when truly nothing is left.

Re: is there any exercise you can do?

Kim K. on 8/14/01 at 20:45 (056753)

Thanks everyone for your feedback, I do swim and have been thinking about getting a recumbant stationery bike for home. My husband is tired of all the unused exercise equipment we have had over the years, I recently gave my cleaning lady a $500 Healthrider that no body liked. I also had my beach cruising bike fixed up, however my neighborhood is not so safe to ride in and I am often housebound with my 5 year old daughter. I am going to try to talk my husband into getting a stationery bike for me, it will be alot cheaper than weight loss surgery.

Re: Weight loss surgery

Kim K. on 8/14/01 at 21:04 (056755)

Thanks Nancy for the info, I am a huge fan of Geneen Roth and have read all her books. I even have her Breaking free workshops on tape. I also believe in the non-diet approach. It has just been lately that I have been thinking about weight loss surgery because I have been in so much pain with my PF. I am tired of the doctors blaming my condition on my being overweight and want to be able to walk without pain all the time. I also suffer from sleep apnea and use a CPAP machine every night along with my night splints ( not very romantic).I have also been to Overeaters anonymous and know that I eat for emotional reasons I am very familiar with 12 step programs and was very disappointed in the OA in my area. I have been working on myself with the help of a therapist for almost 5 years
the process has been slow. The chronic PF that I have has been coloring my whole outlook on things, I also know that I tend to turn to food when I am in pain or fatigued lately. I need my energy because I have a special needs child who is extremely active, she doesnt understand that mommy has trouble keeping up with her and is in pain. I will check into the breaking free groups online that you mentioned.

Re: is there any exercise you can do?

Nancy N on 8/14/01 at 21:28 (056757)

Good for you, Kim! I think the recumbent bike is an excellent idea--my stationary bike is not one of the recumbents, but I do pretty well with it. I used a recumbent bike in PT two years ago and liked it, too. And I think it'll be a lot better for you, physically and mentally (exercise really does clear out the cobwebs in your brain, somehow), than the surgery.

Re: Weight loss surgery

Nancy N on 8/14/01 at hrmin (056758)

Kim--

I hear you, I really do. It has been a while since I was at my lowest point with PF, but I recall the days when I thought I would just cry until I cried the life out of me. I was really blaming myself for a lot of it then, too, though I am not convinced that my weight was the main contributing factor--I certainly believe it didn't help in the healing process, but I wore special shoes when I was a kid and I think I was a good candidate from the beginning, regardless of my weight. And the PF pain is so insidious because it limits the exercise options just when you need them most. Throw the eating disorder on top of that and things can get really tough.

Do check out the mailing lists--I've found them to be incredibly helpful. I wasn't kidding when I said I think I'd have lasted about a day if I'd tried to do this completely on my own. And I have been at it for seven months now. Total loss so far is in the 25 pound neighborhood, which is not setting any records for speed, but at least I have confidence in the idea that I will probably never see those 25 pounds again.

Like I said, feel free to email me if you want. I'm far from being an expert, but if there's anything I can do to help, I'm happy to do so.

Re: Weight loss surgery/To Nancy N

Donna M on 8/15/01 at 01:25 (056771)

Oh,I didn't and don't think you are trying to judge anyone, by any means!! I had only posted this to let Kim know that there is also a negative side, just so she would know!
As far as my sister goes, bless her heart, she is a compulsive eater, a taster, and a 'fantastic' cook!!! With all the weight, she also has bad knees and feet! She also says she doesn't eat much, but if you kept tabs on her, she snacks all the time!! lol Hers 'is' her own fault, and she knows it, but just doesn't have the willpower to do anything about it!
She tried, with the gastric bypass, but it was a total disaster, so she just gave up!
Losing weight is hard to do, unless you really set your mind to it! I know from experience as I am a diet pro! I've lost the same 20 pounds several times! I also got big when I was pregnant years and years ago and had to lose about 70 pounds, twice! (I have 2 daughters and weighed the exact same the day each of them were born, 3½ years apart!) That may not sound like much to alot of people, but I am only 5 ft tall!! :)
Sad to say, I had my thyroid tested and it is normal! I sure was hoping I could blame my 20 extra on something besides my weakness!! lol
Good luck to any and everyone trying to lose!! We all need it!! lol

Re: is there any exercise you can do?

Julie on 8/15/01 at 02:43 (056775)

Hi Kim

The recumbent bike is an excellent idea and I hope you can cajole your husband into getting you one.

How often do you swim, and for how long? 30 to 40 minutes steady swimming, 4-5 times a week, should have a beneficial effect on your heart rate, metabolism, and state of mine. I've found this very helpful when I've been trying to shed weight. And as Nancy says, it clears the cobwebs.

Julie

Re: Weight loss surgery/To Nancy N

Nancy N on 8/15/01 at hrmin (056793)

Donna--

I'm glad you didn't think so, I didn't want anyone to take what I was saying as a judgment. I am only speaking from my own experience.

Has your sister ever read Geneen Roth's books? Does she have email? It's very important to understand that dealing with compulsive eating really has nothing to do with willpower at all--it's about why she is overeating in the first place. It's a shift in thinking and behavior, based in large part on dealing with the emotional issues that cause her to overeat. It may be a habit for her now, but it probably didn't start out that way.

If she has email, I would really recommend the mailing lists I mentioned earlier to her. (They're the two I belong to, but there are plenty of others out there, I'm sure). It would probably help if she reads the Geneen Roth books, too. But she is not alone, and she is not the only one out there dealing with these issues. She certainly is welcome to email me if she would like to, too.

Re: is there any exercise you can do?

john a on 8/15/01 at 13:48 (056800)

Instead of getting a dedicated exercise bike, if you already have a regular outdoor bike that you like, I recommend the Blackburn Defender Trainer (or one of the other brands of indoor trainers). They are simple, sturdy contraptions that allow you to mount your back wheel in them, and provide resistance with magnets and smoothness with a heavy flywheel. They will work with any bike with a quick-release back wheel. It takes all of 60 seconds to attach or detach your bike to one. Very convenient. Cost: $200 - $300.

Re: is there any exercise you can do?

Kim K. on 8/15/01 at 14:42 (056807)

Thanks everyone for your valuable feedback, I am feeling alot more hopeful now!

Re: NancyN - obesity

CatherineL on 8/15/01 at 15:42 (056813)

Hi,

In the literature that I've read through the last few years the infomration actually shows that a majorty of obese people are NOT compusive eaters.

Some, of course are, but according to what I've read, seen with others and experienced myself, most are not. It's a misconception that most obese people are that way because they eat more than average and do less than average activity.

I've gained 50lbs in the last few years on various diets (weight watchers, protien power, dietician, etc, etc, etc. ) containing approx 1600 cal/day. This is the same amount of calories that I ate a few years earlier that got me down to 110lbs., I now gain weight on. There is very little difference in my activity level, lifestyle, etc. The only changes from then to now is the birth of a child, medications, & severe migraines.

If you read recent research on obestity, some is indicating that obese people are not living much differently than someone who isn't obese.

Speaking from experience
Catherine

Re: NancyN - obesity

Nancy N on 8/15/01 at 21:32 (056854)

Catherine--

I did say that there are exceptions to the rule, and that what I'm talking about does not apply to everyone. Genetics, certain medications, and other conditions (thyroid, etc) can certainly affect metabolism. But I do believe that there are a lot of overweight people out there who have a treatable disorder but don't know it, as I didn't, and are stuck in the belief that there is something wrong with them because they feel compelled to eat when they are not hungry (many don't even know what true hunger feels like). They feel that they are 'bad' people because they don't seem to have any willpower, when willpower has nothing at all to do with the problem. I just want to make people aware that there may be other methods of dealing with the weight that could benefit them.

There is a serious lack of awareness on the part of medical professtionals about the causes of excess weight, be they psychological or physical. Misunderstandings abound--hence the need for groups that work for fat acceptance, etc. The psychological impact of views like those that have recently been expressed on this board is profound, regardless of the cause of the excess weight.

Re: NancyN - obesity

Kim K. on 8/16/01 at 13:59 (056910)

I didn't mean to trigger such a huge response when I first expressed how desperate I was feeling and cosidering weight loss surgery. My last podiatrist seemed to want to blame my weight because he couldn't fix my PF, my new podiatrist that I saw yesterday treats alot of PF cases and does surgery and now ESWT as well, he did not mention my weight at all, but came up with solutions for treating my PF!!!I believe we live in a very 'FATPHOBIC' society and that makes me very sad. I have been both thin and fat and notice the difference in how people treat me now that I have gained weight. I must say that what I have read on this message board has been very empowering. Nancy, I will see you on the breaking free site, I joined last night, you will find me under Gratefulkim2001. Thanks again.

Re: NancyN - obesity

Nancy N on 8/16/01 at 16:42 (056926)

Kim--

I wouldn't worry about the response you got to your post--I think that the discussion might have done a lot of good for those who've read it. Like I said, I know that there are plenty of reasons for excess weight, and I am glad that I've had an opportunity to talk about compulsive eating since it is the unspoken eating disorder. But I do know that there are other causes. I just think that it's important for people to know that it might also be an eating disorder. It isn't something you can treat until you acknowledge the correct cause.

I'm looking forward to seeing you on the list! I hope you get as much out of it as I have.

Re: Kim, be glad

Julie on 8/17/01 at 01:30 (056962)

Kim, you should be pleased that your initial question has inspired such a response. The ensuing discussion has been good and thoughtful, the kind that helps people. For everyone who contributes to a thread, there are dozens more - maybe even hundreds - reading every word, and some of those may find some of the help that they need through it. I'm glad you've decided to join the breaking free site and I hope it will give you the inspiration, motivation and insight to move towards your goal.

Nancy, I'm glad you took this opportunity to write about compulsive eating. It IS the 'hidden eating disorder', and it affects more people, men as well as women, than probably anyone knows.

We've 'talked' about this before, so you know that although I'm no fan of diets, having suffered in the past from being a 'yo-yo', I do think well of Weight Watchers, which changed its 'punitive' ethos to one of cheerful encouragement some time ago. What they offer is simple guidance on shifting to a sensible, healthy eating plan and a way of keeping to it, with support along the way. Even when there are emotional issues to be dealt with, I think WW can be a useful adjunct. Seeing those steady pound-a-week results can be motivating in staying with the emotional stuff.