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San Diego......

Posted by JudyS on 9/11/01 at 11:59 (059878)

is completely shut down. Absolutely no public venues open.....my husband's college is closing.
Do we not have at least two PF brethren in New York? Ellen, and, I think another Nancy? Or is it Barbara?
My son tried to phone home from London but phone officials couldn't give him access....he did at least get an email off for which I am immeasurably grateful.
Amen to the others' prayers and may God be with each of you and yours.

Re: San Diego......

Nancy N on 9/11/01 at 17:19 (059903)

Yes, we do have Barb in NY, but she has not posted in a long time. We did the OrthoWave study together. I hope she's OK.

Re: San Diego......

john h on 9/12/01 at 10:29 (059961)

we should immediately look at how the Israeli's airline handles security. it is the best in the world. As a pilot, i have often wondered why they just do build a solid steel bulkhead between the passengers and the pilot compartment and under no circumstances let anyone through. Our Arab population are being warned not to wear their traditional clothing in public. 99.9% of our Arab Americans are good people but unfortunately they fit the profile of our biggest threat in terriorism and they will surely be singled out when boarding planes in the future. We will as a nation have to begin to give up some of our basic freedoms in order to counter terriorism. With what is at stake here i am certainly prepared to do what ever it takes to help stop what may just be the begining. In time our border crossings will not be as simple as they have been. Early indications are two of the terriorist crossed from Canada into Portland, Maine and then flew to Boston. Two other terriorist flew from Florida. A significant amount of evidence is already in hand. I think the passengers and pilots of the Pittsburg flight will go down as heroes and went down fighting. God bless them. The most current poll indicates 93% of Americans will support a 'War' against a nation who can be shown to be involved in this. I am certainly in the 93%. We must pray and mourn our dead but our enemies are plotting as we speak and we must move as swiftly as possible to counter these threats.

Re: YES! Why not?

Barbara TX on 9/12/01 at 15:58 (059993)

John - I have been wondering about this for YEARS. Why not an impenetrable bulkhead? All these solutions must be considered. There is no curbside boarding at DFW right now, and my crutches would be considered weapons, I am sure. I don't want to postpone my surgery... can I ride with John on the hog to NJ? B.

Re: San Diego......

Nancy N on 9/12/01 at 17:11 (060013)

John is totally right about El Al (not that you would necessarily believe me over him anyway, but I thought I would back him up). The Israelis have been dealing with terrorism since the country was formed, and have had plenty of time to figure out how to make their airports and planes as safe as possible. When I was doing my research in 1989, there was a great article in Life Magazine about airports, plastic explosives, etc--all the elements that went into the Pan Am bombing. El Al's chief of security that that time was a man named Isaac Yeffet (not sure if he is still around). He and a Life reporter went to several US airports, and Yeffet pointed out all the security holes as they walked around. The sad thing is that most of those holes haven't been plugged, even though we've known about them for 12 years.

I found the following article on MSNBC tonight (http://www.msnbc.com/news/627524_asp.htm), and they do mention that El Al planes have two doors between the cockpit and the passenger area--and they also have armed guards on the planes. While it might take some adjustment, I would much rather have those guards there (and the doors, of course) if it means that my odds of arriving safely are higher. I would happily allow myself to be strip-searched if it meant that everyone else on the plane was, too, and we knew exactly what would be on the plane with us.

Another MSNBC link that's excellent is this one (http://www.msnbc.com/news/627379_asp.htm)--if you can't believe that anyone could have gotten on a plane because of airline security, you should read this one. We have literally left ourselves wide open for this kind of thing for decades. The miracle is that it hasn't happened before now. X-ray machines are a joke of all as far as security goes, though. Screeners routinely miss 20% of the weapons that are smuggled onto planes.

I promise I'll try to be quiet about security now... but it really does ruffle my feathers in a big way.

Re: YES! Why not?

john h on 9/12/01 at 18:52 (060030)

the strong bulkhead has in my mind been a cheap solution to flying an aircraft into a building for many years. current bulkheads can be kicked down with a strong leg. this is a no brainer just for starters. no one and i mean no one gets into the cockpit. these guys used plastic knives from what i have read. determined suicidal fanatics will always be able to reak havoc on a nation in one way or another. we will have to go to the source to stop this form of aggression. just praying for peace and coexistance will not get it. Northern Ireland for a 1000 years and Israel since it's existence and problems in the Balkans are ancient. We cannot solve all the worlds problems but we must let terriorist and the states that train and support them know that there will be a high price to be paid for terriorism against our country. We cannot dilly dally around trying to get the world communities to agree with us. 20,000 or more of our people are dead. Talk is cheap and we have been doing it for the past decades and what do we have to show for it. Israel and Palestein are still at each other throats, the violence in Northern Ireland continues, the Serbs and their enemys in Yugoslavia continue as they have for a 1000 years and now thousands of our people are dead. If we are to survive with any freedom intact and as a democracy we have to face up to what needs to be done and do it. We have a strong armed military force with men and women who are willing to step up and die if necessary. Power without the will to use it is no power at all. Now is not the time to go wobble in the knees. Peace must be won it is not given. Democracy comes with a price tag. Millions of men and women have given their lives to bring us to were we are today. It has been a long road. Let us not be the generations that did not have the will and courage to face the reality before us and do what needs to be done.

Re: San Diego......

Nancy N on 9/11/01 at 17:19 (059903)

Yes, we do have Barb in NY, but she has not posted in a long time. We did the OrthoWave study together. I hope she's OK.

Re: San Diego......

john h on 9/12/01 at 10:29 (059961)

we should immediately look at how the Israeli's airline handles security. it is the best in the world. As a pilot, i have often wondered why they just do build a solid steel bulkhead between the passengers and the pilot compartment and under no circumstances let anyone through. Our Arab population are being warned not to wear their traditional clothing in public. 99.9% of our Arab Americans are good people but unfortunately they fit the profile of our biggest threat in terriorism and they will surely be singled out when boarding planes in the future. We will as a nation have to begin to give up some of our basic freedoms in order to counter terriorism. With what is at stake here i am certainly prepared to do what ever it takes to help stop what may just be the begining. In time our border crossings will not be as simple as they have been. Early indications are two of the terriorist crossed from Canada into Portland, Maine and then flew to Boston. Two other terriorist flew from Florida. A significant amount of evidence is already in hand. I think the passengers and pilots of the Pittsburg flight will go down as heroes and went down fighting. God bless them. The most current poll indicates 93% of Americans will support a 'War' against a nation who can be shown to be involved in this. I am certainly in the 93%. We must pray and mourn our dead but our enemies are plotting as we speak and we must move as swiftly as possible to counter these threats.

Re: YES! Why not?

Barbara TX on 9/12/01 at 15:58 (059993)

John - I have been wondering about this for YEARS. Why not an impenetrable bulkhead? All these solutions must be considered. There is no curbside boarding at DFW right now, and my crutches would be considered weapons, I am sure. I don't want to postpone my surgery... can I ride with John on the hog to NJ? B.

Re: San Diego......

Nancy N on 9/12/01 at 17:11 (060013)

John is totally right about El Al (not that you would necessarily believe me over him anyway, but I thought I would back him up). The Israelis have been dealing with terrorism since the country was formed, and have had plenty of time to figure out how to make their airports and planes as safe as possible. When I was doing my research in 1989, there was a great article in Life Magazine about airports, plastic explosives, etc--all the elements that went into the Pan Am bombing. El Al's chief of security that that time was a man named Isaac Yeffet (not sure if he is still around). He and a Life reporter went to several US airports, and Yeffet pointed out all the security holes as they walked around. The sad thing is that most of those holes haven't been plugged, even though we've known about them for 12 years.

I found the following article on MSNBC tonight (http://www.msnbc.com/news/627524_asp.htm), and they do mention that El Al planes have two doors between the cockpit and the passenger area--and they also have armed guards on the planes. While it might take some adjustment, I would much rather have those guards there (and the doors, of course) if it means that my odds of arriving safely are higher. I would happily allow myself to be strip-searched if it meant that everyone else on the plane was, too, and we knew exactly what would be on the plane with us.

Another MSNBC link that's excellent is this one (http://www.msnbc.com/news/627379_asp.htm)--if you can't believe that anyone could have gotten on a plane because of airline security, you should read this one. We have literally left ourselves wide open for this kind of thing for decades. The miracle is that it hasn't happened before now. X-ray machines are a joke of all as far as security goes, though. Screeners routinely miss 20% of the weapons that are smuggled onto planes.

I promise I'll try to be quiet about security now... but it really does ruffle my feathers in a big way.

Re: YES! Why not?

john h on 9/12/01 at 18:52 (060030)

the strong bulkhead has in my mind been a cheap solution to flying an aircraft into a building for many years. current bulkheads can be kicked down with a strong leg. this is a no brainer just for starters. no one and i mean no one gets into the cockpit. these guys used plastic knives from what i have read. determined suicidal fanatics will always be able to reak havoc on a nation in one way or another. we will have to go to the source to stop this form of aggression. just praying for peace and coexistance will not get it. Northern Ireland for a 1000 years and Israel since it's existence and problems in the Balkans are ancient. We cannot solve all the worlds problems but we must let terriorist and the states that train and support them know that there will be a high price to be paid for terriorism against our country. We cannot dilly dally around trying to get the world communities to agree with us. 20,000 or more of our people are dead. Talk is cheap and we have been doing it for the past decades and what do we have to show for it. Israel and Palestein are still at each other throats, the violence in Northern Ireland continues, the Serbs and their enemys in Yugoslavia continue as they have for a 1000 years and now thousands of our people are dead. If we are to survive with any freedom intact and as a democracy we have to face up to what needs to be done and do it. We have a strong armed military force with men and women who are willing to step up and die if necessary. Power without the will to use it is no power at all. Now is not the time to go wobble in the knees. Peace must be won it is not given. Democracy comes with a price tag. Millions of men and women have given their lives to bring us to were we are today. It has been a long road. Let us not be the generations that did not have the will and courage to face the reality before us and do what needs to be done.