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Fragile

Posted by Nancy N on 9/15/01 at 09:40 (060439)

I don't know how many of you are fans of Sting, but I just saw on VH1 that he had a concert scheduled for Tuesday night, including a webcast. After much deliberation on how he should proceed, he decided to perform only one song for the webcast. The song he chose is called Fragile, which he wrote about John Lennon. It has long been a favorite of mine (one of the most beautiful and wremching things he has ever written), and I wanted to include the text from the song here, because it seems so very appropriate. If you have not heard the song, I encourage you to find a copy and listen to it--the words are powerful, but the song even more so.

I pray that we all find peace in the days ahead.

Fragile

If blood will flow when flesh and steel are one
Drying in the color of the evening sun,
Tomorrow's rain will wash the stains away
But something in our minds will always stay.

Perhaps this final act was meant
To clinch a lifetime's argument
That nothing comes from violence
and nothing ever could
For all those born beneath an angry star
Lest we forget how fragile we are.

On and on the rain will fall
Like tears from a star, like tears from a star
on and on the rain will say
How fragile we are--how fragile we are...

Re: The President said, "We dare not tempt our adversaries with weakness. For only when our arms are sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed."

Steve P on 9/15/01 at 10:23 (060441)

Hi Nancy. Just providing a little perspective here.

The above words were spoken in 1961. The president was John F. Kennedy.

Re: The President said, "We dare not tempt our adversaries with weakness. For only when our arms are sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed."

Nancy N on 9/15/01 at 10:49 (060442)

Steve, I have previously posted that I am done with this debate. I said so rather clearly. The only thing I have posted since then was a song that means a lot to me, and I thought that it might mean a lot to others as well. It was not meant to make a point for my side of the debate or anyone else's, it was meant only as an offering to my friends on the board. Perhaps I did not state that clearly enough, and if that is the case, I do apologize.

For the record, I am very serious--this post will be my last post on this subject unless _new_ information is discovered, and even then I may choose to abstain. For a while, at least, it may be my last post, period. My soul cannot take any more of this. I sit at my keyboard shaking and feeling sick to my stomach at what has happened, both internationally and on this board.

A few days ago, we decided to 'agree to disagree.' There is a great deal more I could say to you, but I will refrain in the name of our friendship and in the name of keeping this board a pleasant venue for all of us. All I ask is that you show me the same respect. I hope that we can just let this whole thing go, and keep our friendship intact, but if you have anything else to say to me, please email me privately, rather than publicly continuing a debate of which, I suspect, we are all weary. Our friends on the board deserve that consideration.

Re: To My friends here^

Tammie on 9/15/01 at 11:25 (060456)

As your friend i sincerly hope that u can reach out despite the differences and remember the gifts we have been given,there are reasons for every thing in life some we are not to understand or may never make sense of. But a freindship is knowing when to let some things go and to refrain from hurting those we care about. Cant you both see at how this act is working for the people responsible for it, they are tearing our board , which has always been a friendly loving helpful place to come to and they are turning it to a debate and opioions that anger or make others sad,they win. Now think if it has this drastic effect here what it is doing elsewhere? I was so worried as I sit by and read post after post and try to find a way to bring back the peace and loving caring way that was here. We will never all agree we know that and as life has taught us that many have different views and that is what makes this world great. We also may have learned during family outings or get togethers that politics religion and money should not be discussed unless of course you want a rumble . I say this smiling as I know this for a fact in my family. But it is good to listen with a open mind of others thoughts and ideas as that to is a way of learning and exploring new ideas, but to me I feel this is maybe getting a bit out of hand my thought of course is my opioion! I fear of others looking in and seeing this or those who have been here long and silent may be feeling this also! We need to put aside our personal and our needs to be right in this powerful issue and stand together as one supporting each other in this time of turmoil and pain and yes I will stress it again and no I am not some religious fanatic, but I do put allot into the power of prayer especially when it gives us hope, please come together for each other and our great country no matter what is right or what is wrong and whose opioion is better or whos is not and pray for a inner peace and strenghth to continue life and to make it better for each other in any way we can! This is a nother sadday to see that two people that we love and care for are feeling the terrorists plan. I care about each of you in fact every one here at this board and tho have many more feelings on this issue I would like to try somehow to get back to life of living the great gift that we were allowed to keep! And I do not want to sound as tho I do not care about what is going on because that is not the case, just that my prayers is what I believe in the thought that God surly understands what we are all going thru and has a reason and a plan and we can only live life as he gave us, and do the work he wishes us to and support America in the ways and means we can. Please I am begging my friends to come together and put differences aside and reach out your hands and touch your hearts Please! And I hope this will heal the saddness that is causing the sick feelings that we all are feeling ! There will always be differences always it is not up to us to be a judge of those.Thank u for reading this and hope that you can feel my need to want to help heal the hearts and souls from this huge powerful assault to our world . I am tired of living in grief and fear and anger, I want to take what gift I was given my life and to use it in a positive way!~ I say this and reach out to u again I give u my hand will u both become part of the circle, and reach out to others and continue the circle which has no begining and no end? Please? Today is a gift we must take advantage of each living moment as tho it might be the last .

Re: As long as you keep posting your pacifist views, I will keep answering you.

Steve P on 9/15/01 at 11:59 (060459)

Depend on it.

Re: Pacifist

wendyn on 9/15/01 at 12:58 (060465)

Steve, I was going to ask you to take a deep breath - I thought perhaps you were insulting Nancy with 'your Pacifist views.' Although my vocabulary is pretty good...I wasn't sure of the exact meaning of Pacifist.

Ran it through the Thesaurus and the other options are:

'Peace Lover'
'Peace Keeper'
'Conscientous objector'

So in my book - being called a peace keeper is okay. I guess most of us would be 'peace lovers'.

That said - I think a little objectivity may be in order here...and a deep breath or two.

Debate is wonderful, but understand that the odds of all agreeing are absolutely zero.

Re: Steve

Julie on 9/15/01 at 14:35 (060469)

You have gone too far - on the board to Nancy, and in your private e-mails to me. We are all grieving. You and you alone have been insulting.

I respect the principle of confidentiality. If I did not, I would expose you by posting your latest e-mail and its poison against the British people.

This is my reply to it.

Re: Pacifist

Steve P on 9/15/01 at 17:32 (060490)

Hi Wendy -- You're right. 'Pacifist' is defined as you indicate above. There is a problem when there are too many pacifists in any one country.....that country will not remain free.

60 years ago Hitler swept across Europe & the Japanese across the Pacific, brutally conquering & enslaving one country after another.
We all know the rest of the history.

Yes, I'll take some deep breaths. I do read you.

Good night!

Re: The President said, "We dare not tempt our adversaries with weakness. For only when our arms are sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed."

Barbara TX on 9/15/01 at 19:39 (060498)

I don't think that there is any harm meant by anyone here. People feel strongly about their beliefs, but it has all been most enlightening and interesting! No one has said 'you're an idiot!' or 'you are insane!' Stuff like that is out of line, and there's been none of it. I will even, as a goodwill gesture, flip down my bedside portrait of Dick Cheney (I have a little crush on him) while Nancy stays with me in NJ. B.

Re: To My friends here^

Barbara TX on 9/15/01 at 19:44 (060499)

Tammie - I am sorry that you have been disturbed by the things said here... but I think that everyone has been really nice and cool headed, especially to me personally - even those who disagree with me. I don't know if I have a thick skin or what, but if we just take people where they stand and not expect everyone to be in the same place. It would be a shame not to learn from each other! B.

Re: Steve

Barbara TX on 9/15/01 at 19:57 (060502)

Wait- you just accused Steve of some secret 'poison' in front of us all. What are you talking about? You have intimated to us all that you could 'expose' Steve. I mean, he has been a really nice guy on this board for a long time, and its really not fair to accuse him vaguely of poisoning anybody and then claim that you are such a great respecter of confidentiality. What's up? Don't get this latest turn. Help me out here. B.

Re: Steve

Barbara TX on 9/15/01 at 20:16 (060509)

Whoops, maybe did I miss something? Maybe I lost a thread somewhere? Maybe Steve is a communist spy, set out to agitate us all!!!! Obviously I am out of the cell-group loop.

Seriously, I am on another machine that I haven't been on in a long time and the 'messages since you last visited' list is vast! Almost shuts this little hummer down.

Anyway, I hope:

Steve loves Julie
Julie loves Steve
Julie loves Babs
Babs love Julie
They all love Nancy
They all love John
They all love Scott when he is not drunk-out-of-his-mind
And Judy loves us all.

Peace out. B.

Re: Steve

wendyn on 9/15/01 at 21:02 (060513)

I was wondering what was up too...from the posts I've seen - things have been reasonbly well behaved.

I get the impression that there is some email flying around.

I think it's best if that stuff stays in the email though.

Re: Steve

Barbara TX on 9/16/01 at 00:05 (060525)

That is a very civil policy. If anyone gets an e-mail that they don't like from anybody, just politely answer back requesting no more of it, thanks. B.

Re: Steve

JudyS on 9/16/01 at 00:22 (060527)

I especially love John h because he cooks..........:)

Re: To My friends here^

Tammie on 9/16/01 at 00:44 (060532)

Well I have not had anything nasty said to me either but did u read above posts????? And when is it enough? Is this a fair place to continue thease types of topics on and on and on till every one is angry at each other we have heard a few now who are saying they are not responding right? Maybe I am mistaken I thought please correct me If wrong, that nancy was upset with Steve posts and Julie? and He is upset with what they post? And well how many others are upset with this and are remaining quiet? It really does not matter to me personaly as I feel my thoughts and others may or may not be the same and I respect what they might feel I can or choose not to read it , But u see i do care about people and dont like to see anyone hurt. And I think sometime life needs to go on , I am upset because we hear it here there and everywhere, and so many have thoughts and views what was a learning expierance is now becoming a war between knowledge and words and views ,It does not matter that we are all saddened at this point,or feel the terror and that we are all finding different ways to cope and help our familiy and friends cope. I t seems to matter who or how this needs to be settled , with bombs or war or in a peaceful way, what does it matter to us really we will not be making the decision of how it will be done,we do not have to all agree it will be done in what way the people who we put in charge of thease decisions , arent we supposed to support them in what they decide and if we dont like it what does it matter it will be done anyways right? At this point I am quite sure they have much more information then any of us here and that they are very aware of what or when or how or the possible repercussions that could or can pos. take place, so why do we continue this why cant we be peaceful here and support the feelings we are all having in a friendly sort of way and when the time comes we support or goverment and our military leaders and the country, if we dont like how they do things is now the time to fight about it will it really make a difference, and if it goes to our liking will then our country be great and our leaders? Or if it goes badly will we blame our leaders and hate them ? What happened to just supporting them thru the good and bad is now the time to fight or place blame on there mistakes? Is there not enough going on? And if and when we go to war are we going to fight about that to and argue and disagree or if they choose not to retaliate in the way we want them to are we going to fight about that to? Is there anyone who will totaly be happy with everything? Do we have to fight about every thing? I am angry now , I feel like I am being told to shut up and quit whining and dont be passive lol If u only really new how i feel, I dont have to say it I dont have to agree I dont have to be sorry that I feel as tho ther is enough going on in this that i do not want ot hear more, of the same here there are places i can go to to talk about this in fact i have been there to read what people are thinking and saying, but isnt any place free of anger? Will this ever be enough, Will everyone here be happy if we all agree or agree to disagree? I am sorry I am tired and I am sad I watched my daughter who is 13 today scream out in frustration and pain that she has had enough that it is everywhere and everyone everyone mom is talking and killing and diying and wanting to kill more and are we going to die to, and will we ever be able to be like we were before and I hate everything we are going to just die anyways so why do we worry her and her friends were looking on maps to see what or where the areas are that may get hit and wondering if we lived in a area that was a high target area , she is 13 and very upset she can not get away from it any way,newspapers,school they talk and watch tv, radio it is on , tv is non stop, we went ot her grandmas and we talked about it we went ot store we heard people talking and fighting about it, we went to dinner we heard people talking and fighting in loud ways about it, we went to a apple farm and even there we heard it she is right, I feel for her as she is a scared child , I am 3+X her age and I am feeling smothered to , we care we worry we love we dont like that people are fighting here or anywhere we understand about war we accept the necesity of it and we will be proudly doing what is needed if it happens. I am sorry I guess u will tell me if i dont like it dont read it or dont come here. Maybe I am being selfish and maybe I am wrong but I want to go on with some sort of life and I want to be able to get away from some of it someway to! I cant change it I didnt cause it I am not happy about it I cant fix it I need to continue life till there is something I can do! And This is enough for me.And this is not a friendly and safe place no longer! Good night to those who can sleep! And for those that are like me still awake trying to find a way to live and get your life back to some sort of livable I wish you luck and faith and prayers!I am done for a bit to break time from this! I hope you can find your answers I guess i just dont have the same skin, I am not tough enough for this anymore, lol I am feeling like hmmmmmmmmm trying to think of a good word cant think anymore oh my Night.

Re: To My friends here^/Tammie what's happening!?!?

Donna M on 9/16/01 at 01:34 (060541)

To Tammie and anyone else to whom this applies:
I know I haven't been coming to heelspurs.com as long as most people on here have, and I could be very wrong about some of the things I am going to say concerning them.
With the world like it is right now, with all that has happened, everyone is really torn in one direction or another. Emotions are probably running at an all time high, for the majority of Americans.
You know how when you have a disagreement with your hubby or someone else really close to you? You feel like you could wring their neck, at the moment! But after all is said and done you would never hurt them in a million years!!! It's just in that moment, during that heated argument, that you get all shook. When it's over, things go back to being normal again and just because you disagreed is no sign that you love or care any less for that person, than you did before the disagreement took place.
Well, that's how I think the majority on this board feel about each other. Couples argue, kids argue, parents and kids argue, (I could go on and on with examples!), but this doesn't mean they love each other any less.
I would just about make a bet (and I'm not a betting person) that if you, or anyone else needed support (or just about anything!), everyone on here would do their best to help you, or whoever else, however they could. If there are people on here that are not coming back because of the debates/discussions that have been going on, maybe they need to do a little soul searching and see if maybe they aren't being a little to touchy. Being a friend means you have to accept the whole person, not just their good points or their opinions with which you agree.
I've always heard that 'opinions are like ***holes, everybody has one' oops ;)!! This is true!! lol
I think everything will be okay on here! Just don't go getting yourself so worked up and upset! You are too sweet and nice to get so upset!

Take Care, Donna

Re: Steve

john h on 9/16/01 at 10:06 (060567)

john h not only cooks he vacumes, empties the trash and kitty litter box, makes the beds, washes the sheets, does the yard, puts up the dishes and anything else that needs doing. In past times i might be a called 'a man for all seasons' or 'whipped'!

Re: Too Funny!

Tammy M on 9/16/01 at 14:55 (060593)

Just had to say your post made me laugh. How cute!! Not only is it GREAT to laugh again, but I now have proof to give my husband that other men do indeed do these things!

Re: To Barbara

Julie on 9/17/01 at 01:30 (060665)

Barb, I should not have said that, but I appreciate that you're entitled to an explanation, as my post disturbed you.

Steve made a private communication to me, which consisted of many insulting remark about the country I Iive in and the British people I have shared most of my life with, a people I love and honour and respect. Amongst other things, he referred to Britain as a moral cesspool, and said that the English had never done anything for America except cost us lives in the war.

These are cruel things to say. They were very hurtful to me.

Probably he was worked up when he wrote them. But I was angry and sad, and when I saw his post to Nancy a little later, I reacted.

Sometimes these things happen: one says in haste what one shouldn't say, and there it is out in cyberspace. I should not have said it.

Re: To Barbara

Barbara TX on 9/17/01 at 09:56 (060689)

I have sent you a private I email re. this, Julie. Let's try to keep e-mails private in the future. I am not saying that we can't engage in spirited debate here, but the private wranglings have to go on behind cyberdoors. I expect you to hold me to that as well. B.

Re: Steve

john h on 9/17/01 at 10:12 (060698)

i will send you and scott email if i want barb and that is that!

Re: Steve

Barbara TX on 9/17/01 at 19:21 (060795)

An e-mail from John H always puts a spring in my step! B.

Re: The President said, "We dare not tempt our adversaries with weakness. For only when our arms are sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed."

Steve P on 9/15/01 at 10:23 (060441)

Hi Nancy. Just providing a little perspective here.

The above words were spoken in 1961. The president was John F. Kennedy.

Re: The President said, "We dare not tempt our adversaries with weakness. For only when our arms are sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed."

Nancy N on 9/15/01 at 10:49 (060442)

Steve, I have previously posted that I am done with this debate. I said so rather clearly. The only thing I have posted since then was a song that means a lot to me, and I thought that it might mean a lot to others as well. It was not meant to make a point for my side of the debate or anyone else's, it was meant only as an offering to my friends on the board. Perhaps I did not state that clearly enough, and if that is the case, I do apologize.

For the record, I am very serious--this post will be my last post on this subject unless _new_ information is discovered, and even then I may choose to abstain. For a while, at least, it may be my last post, period. My soul cannot take any more of this. I sit at my keyboard shaking and feeling sick to my stomach at what has happened, both internationally and on this board.

A few days ago, we decided to 'agree to disagree.' There is a great deal more I could say to you, but I will refrain in the name of our friendship and in the name of keeping this board a pleasant venue for all of us. All I ask is that you show me the same respect. I hope that we can just let this whole thing go, and keep our friendship intact, but if you have anything else to say to me, please email me privately, rather than publicly continuing a debate of which, I suspect, we are all weary. Our friends on the board deserve that consideration.

Re: To My friends here^

Tammie on 9/15/01 at 11:25 (060456)

As your friend i sincerly hope that u can reach out despite the differences and remember the gifts we have been given,there are reasons for every thing in life some we are not to understand or may never make sense of. But a freindship is knowing when to let some things go and to refrain from hurting those we care about. Cant you both see at how this act is working for the people responsible for it, they are tearing our board , which has always been a friendly loving helpful place to come to and they are turning it to a debate and opioions that anger or make others sad,they win. Now think if it has this drastic effect here what it is doing elsewhere? I was so worried as I sit by and read post after post and try to find a way to bring back the peace and loving caring way that was here. We will never all agree we know that and as life has taught us that many have different views and that is what makes this world great. We also may have learned during family outings or get togethers that politics religion and money should not be discussed unless of course you want a rumble . I say this smiling as I know this for a fact in my family. But it is good to listen with a open mind of others thoughts and ideas as that to is a way of learning and exploring new ideas, but to me I feel this is maybe getting a bit out of hand my thought of course is my opioion! I fear of others looking in and seeing this or those who have been here long and silent may be feeling this also! We need to put aside our personal and our needs to be right in this powerful issue and stand together as one supporting each other in this time of turmoil and pain and yes I will stress it again and no I am not some religious fanatic, but I do put allot into the power of prayer especially when it gives us hope, please come together for each other and our great country no matter what is right or what is wrong and whose opioion is better or whos is not and pray for a inner peace and strenghth to continue life and to make it better for each other in any way we can! This is a nother sadday to see that two people that we love and care for are feeling the terrorists plan. I care about each of you in fact every one here at this board and tho have many more feelings on this issue I would like to try somehow to get back to life of living the great gift that we were allowed to keep! And I do not want to sound as tho I do not care about what is going on because that is not the case, just that my prayers is what I believe in the thought that God surly understands what we are all going thru and has a reason and a plan and we can only live life as he gave us, and do the work he wishes us to and support America in the ways and means we can. Please I am begging my friends to come together and put differences aside and reach out your hands and touch your hearts Please! And I hope this will heal the saddness that is causing the sick feelings that we all are feeling ! There will always be differences always it is not up to us to be a judge of those.Thank u for reading this and hope that you can feel my need to want to help heal the hearts and souls from this huge powerful assault to our world . I am tired of living in grief and fear and anger, I want to take what gift I was given my life and to use it in a positive way!~ I say this and reach out to u again I give u my hand will u both become part of the circle, and reach out to others and continue the circle which has no begining and no end? Please? Today is a gift we must take advantage of each living moment as tho it might be the last .

Re: As long as you keep posting your pacifist views, I will keep answering you.

Steve P on 9/15/01 at 11:59 (060459)

Depend on it.

Re: Pacifist

wendyn on 9/15/01 at 12:58 (060465)

Steve, I was going to ask you to take a deep breath - I thought perhaps you were insulting Nancy with 'your Pacifist views.' Although my vocabulary is pretty good...I wasn't sure of the exact meaning of Pacifist.

Ran it through the Thesaurus and the other options are:

'Peace Lover'
'Peace Keeper'
'Conscientous objector'

So in my book - being called a peace keeper is okay. I guess most of us would be 'peace lovers'.

That said - I think a little objectivity may be in order here...and a deep breath or two.

Debate is wonderful, but understand that the odds of all agreeing are absolutely zero.

Re: Steve

Julie on 9/15/01 at 14:35 (060469)

You have gone too far - on the board to Nancy, and in your private e-mails to me. We are all grieving. You and you alone have been insulting.

I respect the principle of confidentiality. If I did not, I would expose you by posting your latest e-mail and its poison against the British people.

This is my reply to it.

Re: Pacifist

Steve P on 9/15/01 at 17:32 (060490)

Hi Wendy -- You're right. 'Pacifist' is defined as you indicate above. There is a problem when there are too many pacifists in any one country.....that country will not remain free.

60 years ago Hitler swept across Europe & the Japanese across the Pacific, brutally conquering & enslaving one country after another.
We all know the rest of the history.

Yes, I'll take some deep breaths. I do read you.

Good night!

Re: The President said, "We dare not tempt our adversaries with weakness. For only when our arms are sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed."

Barbara TX on 9/15/01 at 19:39 (060498)

I don't think that there is any harm meant by anyone here. People feel strongly about their beliefs, but it has all been most enlightening and interesting! No one has said 'you're an idiot!' or 'you are insane!' Stuff like that is out of line, and there's been none of it. I will even, as a goodwill gesture, flip down my bedside portrait of Dick Cheney (I have a little crush on him) while Nancy stays with me in NJ. B.

Re: To My friends here^

Barbara TX on 9/15/01 at 19:44 (060499)

Tammie - I am sorry that you have been disturbed by the things said here... but I think that everyone has been really nice and cool headed, especially to me personally - even those who disagree with me. I don't know if I have a thick skin or what, but if we just take people where they stand and not expect everyone to be in the same place. It would be a shame not to learn from each other! B.

Re: Steve

Barbara TX on 9/15/01 at 19:57 (060502)

Wait- you just accused Steve of some secret 'poison' in front of us all. What are you talking about? You have intimated to us all that you could 'expose' Steve. I mean, he has been a really nice guy on this board for a long time, and its really not fair to accuse him vaguely of poisoning anybody and then claim that you are such a great respecter of confidentiality. What's up? Don't get this latest turn. Help me out here. B.

Re: Steve

Barbara TX on 9/15/01 at 20:16 (060509)

Whoops, maybe did I miss something? Maybe I lost a thread somewhere? Maybe Steve is a communist spy, set out to agitate us all!!!! Obviously I am out of the cell-group loop.

Seriously, I am on another machine that I haven't been on in a long time and the 'messages since you last visited' list is vast! Almost shuts this little hummer down.

Anyway, I hope:

Steve loves Julie
Julie loves Steve
Julie loves Babs
Babs love Julie
They all love Nancy
They all love John
They all love Scott when he is not drunk-out-of-his-mind
And Judy loves us all.

Peace out. B.

Re: Steve

wendyn on 9/15/01 at 21:02 (060513)

I was wondering what was up too...from the posts I've seen - things have been reasonbly well behaved.

I get the impression that there is some email flying around.

I think it's best if that stuff stays in the email though.

Re: Steve

Barbara TX on 9/16/01 at 00:05 (060525)

That is a very civil policy. If anyone gets an e-mail that they don't like from anybody, just politely answer back requesting no more of it, thanks. B.

Re: Steve

JudyS on 9/16/01 at 00:22 (060527)

I especially love John h because he cooks..........:)

Re: To My friends here^

Tammie on 9/16/01 at 00:44 (060532)

Well I have not had anything nasty said to me either but did u read above posts????? And when is it enough? Is this a fair place to continue thease types of topics on and on and on till every one is angry at each other we have heard a few now who are saying they are not responding right? Maybe I am mistaken I thought please correct me If wrong, that nancy was upset with Steve posts and Julie? and He is upset with what they post? And well how many others are upset with this and are remaining quiet? It really does not matter to me personaly as I feel my thoughts and others may or may not be the same and I respect what they might feel I can or choose not to read it , But u see i do care about people and dont like to see anyone hurt. And I think sometime life needs to go on , I am upset because we hear it here there and everywhere, and so many have thoughts and views what was a learning expierance is now becoming a war between knowledge and words and views ,It does not matter that we are all saddened at this point,or feel the terror and that we are all finding different ways to cope and help our familiy and friends cope. I t seems to matter who or how this needs to be settled , with bombs or war or in a peaceful way, what does it matter to us really we will not be making the decision of how it will be done,we do not have to all agree it will be done in what way the people who we put in charge of thease decisions , arent we supposed to support them in what they decide and if we dont like it what does it matter it will be done anyways right? At this point I am quite sure they have much more information then any of us here and that they are very aware of what or when or how or the possible repercussions that could or can pos. take place, so why do we continue this why cant we be peaceful here and support the feelings we are all having in a friendly sort of way and when the time comes we support or goverment and our military leaders and the country, if we dont like how they do things is now the time to fight about it will it really make a difference, and if it goes to our liking will then our country be great and our leaders? Or if it goes badly will we blame our leaders and hate them ? What happened to just supporting them thru the good and bad is now the time to fight or place blame on there mistakes? Is there not enough going on? And if and when we go to war are we going to fight about that to and argue and disagree or if they choose not to retaliate in the way we want them to are we going to fight about that to? Is there anyone who will totaly be happy with everything? Do we have to fight about every thing? I am angry now , I feel like I am being told to shut up and quit whining and dont be passive lol If u only really new how i feel, I dont have to say it I dont have to agree I dont have to be sorry that I feel as tho ther is enough going on in this that i do not want ot hear more, of the same here there are places i can go to to talk about this in fact i have been there to read what people are thinking and saying, but isnt any place free of anger? Will this ever be enough, Will everyone here be happy if we all agree or agree to disagree? I am sorry I am tired and I am sad I watched my daughter who is 13 today scream out in frustration and pain that she has had enough that it is everywhere and everyone everyone mom is talking and killing and diying and wanting to kill more and are we going to die to, and will we ever be able to be like we were before and I hate everything we are going to just die anyways so why do we worry her and her friends were looking on maps to see what or where the areas are that may get hit and wondering if we lived in a area that was a high target area , she is 13 and very upset she can not get away from it any way,newspapers,school they talk and watch tv, radio it is on , tv is non stop, we went ot her grandmas and we talked about it we went ot store we heard people talking and fighting about it, we went to dinner we heard people talking and fighting in loud ways about it, we went to a apple farm and even there we heard it she is right, I feel for her as she is a scared child , I am 3+X her age and I am feeling smothered to , we care we worry we love we dont like that people are fighting here or anywhere we understand about war we accept the necesity of it and we will be proudly doing what is needed if it happens. I am sorry I guess u will tell me if i dont like it dont read it or dont come here. Maybe I am being selfish and maybe I am wrong but I want to go on with some sort of life and I want to be able to get away from some of it someway to! I cant change it I didnt cause it I am not happy about it I cant fix it I need to continue life till there is something I can do! And This is enough for me.And this is not a friendly and safe place no longer! Good night to those who can sleep! And for those that are like me still awake trying to find a way to live and get your life back to some sort of livable I wish you luck and faith and prayers!I am done for a bit to break time from this! I hope you can find your answers I guess i just dont have the same skin, I am not tough enough for this anymore, lol I am feeling like hmmmmmmmmm trying to think of a good word cant think anymore oh my Night.

Re: To My friends here^/Tammie what's happening!?!?

Donna M on 9/16/01 at 01:34 (060541)

To Tammie and anyone else to whom this applies:
I know I haven't been coming to heelspurs.com as long as most people on here have, and I could be very wrong about some of the things I am going to say concerning them.
With the world like it is right now, with all that has happened, everyone is really torn in one direction or another. Emotions are probably running at an all time high, for the majority of Americans.
You know how when you have a disagreement with your hubby or someone else really close to you? You feel like you could wring their neck, at the moment! But after all is said and done you would never hurt them in a million years!!! It's just in that moment, during that heated argument, that you get all shook. When it's over, things go back to being normal again and just because you disagreed is no sign that you love or care any less for that person, than you did before the disagreement took place.
Well, that's how I think the majority on this board feel about each other. Couples argue, kids argue, parents and kids argue, (I could go on and on with examples!), but this doesn't mean they love each other any less.
I would just about make a bet (and I'm not a betting person) that if you, or anyone else needed support (or just about anything!), everyone on here would do their best to help you, or whoever else, however they could. If there are people on here that are not coming back because of the debates/discussions that have been going on, maybe they need to do a little soul searching and see if maybe they aren't being a little to touchy. Being a friend means you have to accept the whole person, not just their good points or their opinions with which you agree.
I've always heard that 'opinions are like ***holes, everybody has one' oops ;)!! This is true!! lol
I think everything will be okay on here! Just don't go getting yourself so worked up and upset! You are too sweet and nice to get so upset!

Take Care, Donna

Re: Steve

john h on 9/16/01 at 10:06 (060567)

john h not only cooks he vacumes, empties the trash and kitty litter box, makes the beds, washes the sheets, does the yard, puts up the dishes and anything else that needs doing. In past times i might be a called 'a man for all seasons' or 'whipped'!

Re: Too Funny!

Tammy M on 9/16/01 at 14:55 (060593)

Just had to say your post made me laugh. How cute!! Not only is it GREAT to laugh again, but I now have proof to give my husband that other men do indeed do these things!

Re: To Barbara

Julie on 9/17/01 at 01:30 (060665)

Barb, I should not have said that, but I appreciate that you're entitled to an explanation, as my post disturbed you.

Steve made a private communication to me, which consisted of many insulting remark about the country I Iive in and the British people I have shared most of my life with, a people I love and honour and respect. Amongst other things, he referred to Britain as a moral cesspool, and said that the English had never done anything for America except cost us lives in the war.

These are cruel things to say. They were very hurtful to me.

Probably he was worked up when he wrote them. But I was angry and sad, and when I saw his post to Nancy a little later, I reacted.

Sometimes these things happen: one says in haste what one shouldn't say, and there it is out in cyberspace. I should not have said it.

Re: To Barbara

Barbara TX on 9/17/01 at 09:56 (060689)

I have sent you a private I email re. this, Julie. Let's try to keep e-mails private in the future. I am not saying that we can't engage in spirited debate here, but the private wranglings have to go on behind cyberdoors. I expect you to hold me to that as well. B.

Re: Steve

john h on 9/17/01 at 10:12 (060698)

i will send you and scott email if i want barb and that is that!

Re: Steve

Barbara TX on 9/17/01 at 19:21 (060795)

An e-mail from John H always puts a spring in my step! B.