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the women of afghanastan

Posted by paula on 9/22/01 at 23:18 (061314)

just saw a cnn report of the pitiful condition of the women under the taliban regime. surely we will not support randomly bombing these wretched victims. they no more support the taliban than you and i and their lives have been robbed of everything a human or even a dog would need for their lives to be bearable. it is one thing to bring justice to the taliban, another to harm these women. or to do anything that makes their lives even more untenable. if we just start randomly bombing, then the taliban go into their bunkers and the people they have victimized are killed and maimed. these are my opinions.

Re: the women of afghanastan

nancy s. on 9/22/01 at 23:34 (061315)

i'm with you completely, paula, and you put it very well.
i'm also with carmen on another board, where she's appreciating what you call your weird sense of humor -- i appreciate it too! is there such a thing as a 'cute but subtle' sense of humor? if so, you have it.
nancy

Re: the women of afghanastan

paula on 9/22/01 at 23:46 (061316)

thank you. that's a lot of appreciation for me in one night.

Re: This was an attack on the status of women

Steve P on 9/23/01 at 09:28 (061327)

Paula -- One of the things the attackers most hate about America is the status of women in this country & the West in general. Al-Quiba does not represent the religion they claim to, nor any religion at all. They are fanatics.

The attackers have special hatred for any society that gives women equal rights. That's why we must shut down the organization that supports them. In the long run, this will help their present victims (Afghanistani women) as well as all others.

Steve

Re: This was an attack on the status of women

paula on 9/23/01 at 12:47 (061335)

sure, agreed, unless we 'help' their current victims by bombing them to death.

Re: This was an attack on the status of women

Steve P on 9/23/01 at 15:37 (061343)

Paula, I understand where you're coming from. But realize that many Afghans are hoping & praying to be liberated from these tyrants. The sooner we start the better.

Re: This was an attack on the status of women

paula on 9/23/01 at 17:25 (061345)

the sooner we start what, is my point steve.

Re: This was an attack on the status of women

BG CPed on 9/23/01 at 17:54 (061350)

Not to jump in but I was bothered by many folks that seem to be more concerned about everybody else but Americans. I dont think anybody wishes or hopes to carpet bomb the whole country, nor will it happen. There will be surgical activities not indiscriminate mass bombings.

There was a picture of protesters at UofM the other day. There was a 19year old girl with a sign that read 'the real terrorists are in the Whitehouse' Their ignorance leaves me wondering whether to laugh or get sick. That stupid college co-ed has no clue that the country she hates gives her the right to prance around with a sign that promotes such ignorance. I would encourage these folks to go over to Afganistan with hugs and fruit baskets and see what would happen to them...they would be raped and killed just for being American

Not only do they not allow women to vote, go to school etc. They are hypocrits. The scum that flew into the WTC spent the night before in a strip bar drinking booze. These same men would take women from their own religion out in the desert and shoot them for kissing a boy or showing their ankles in public.

I cant believe the people that think we can be passive and bargain or reason with these animals. They are irrational and hate us. They are not interested in converting us to Islam. They were also ready to use crop dusters and chemicals over here. How many more do we need to die or be maimed. This may be unpopular but we live here, this is our country. In my opinion it is the best place in the world warts and all. The US has given over 135 million to Afgan. Islam states that everyone should give a percentage of assets to poor and sick. Bin Laden is a multi millionaire and it prob costs about 3 dollars a day to feed and cloth an Afgan.

Wars are not pretty and they get ugly but our freedom and way of life is at stake and our preservation is more important than what happens to Afganistan in the short term. If we remove the fanatical Muslims/Taliban and perhaps restore some form of better government then it will be a better place. Just remeber those people on those planes or in the WTC and think how you would feel if it was you or a family member

Sorry about the rant

Re: This was an attack on the status of women

paula on 9/23/01 at 18:34 (061354)

it is important to me what happens to the women and children of afghanastan in the short term. if this is going to be another iraq where an estimated 100 thousand women and children were killed, as opposed to the to the tyrant who is enjoying his life just fine even as we write i do not support such a thing. and i do not feel as confident as you do that that is not going to happen. i don't think my opinion means i am anti american or that i don't feel as strongly as others do about the americans who were murdered. in fact i believe my opinion makes me very pro american because i actually think we do have something fine to preserve here and if we kill innocent women then what exactly is it that we are proudly preserving? at any rate this is not the time to let emotions run away with us but the time to think things through very carefully so as to effectively bring these murderers to justice. just my opinion.

Re: Yes we are all bothered by many things but

Tammie on 9/23/01 at 18:58 (061356)

Please remember that is another reason america is great! People have the right to say how they feel without being persicuted, sorry spelling?
Be it right or wrong to us they still may speak and feel as they choose. So please don't get riled AGAIN! And I am not defending any one at this point I am just trying to point out that some will never agree but they have the right to feel as they do! And Heh, i like to give hugs does that make me a bad person even if I offer to someone who may in turn hurt me? Now I am not trying to say I believe as any of you here , I have my own thoughts on the whole thing!

But I will no matter what happens be 100% behind my country and lawmakers and goverment and be there to give support to all of them ! I am not a judge to what is right or wrong, that is not my job. Nor is it my job to attack others for a difference of there opioions just listen politely and continue to believe as I choose! Most often you can't change anothers thougths anyways! Most are to stubborn! You all have had interesting thoughts combine several of them and we have a great country!!!!!!!!! Which is what we have! i want to underline this but do not know how! May God always be with us and our great Country and those who love it and protect it and fight for it!

I just do not want to see the fights start here again , to much energy wasted and nothing acomplished with it! Sometimes words hurt much more then any type of pain. So please try to keep in mind that there are many high charged feelings going on, lets not destroy a good place that has been put here! Calm was just starting to occur. You and others are smart folks and I for one value your thoughts and advice on many things even this issue! As Long as it is not mean or hurtful to anyone here. Some places in life must remain peaceful, and a safe haven, this is my thought anyways!

Re: This was an attack on the status of women

BGCPed on 9/23/01 at 19:04 (061357)

What exactly was the direct cause of death of the 100 thousand? I dont believe it was from thomahawk or cruise missles. If you are goinr to make the argument that the US is the cause because Saddam is happy to blow money on himself and not take care of his citizens then it is wrong to say the US caused the death. I also wonder why you only point out women and children as being tragic, were the mens deaths less tragic?

You are right about Saddam, and hopefully the butcher will die a miserable death during this conflict so the decent people of Iraq may progress to a more free country. Again I dont believe anybody thinks carpet bombing would be wise. But they will not stop so they must be systematically eliminated. The Taliban, Saddam, Bin Laden and their ilk are the ones responsible for the fate of their region. Spending 95 percent of their time planing and executing terror is not the way good religeous leaders should be helping poor citizens. The US has contributed much more than Bin Laden has to Afganistan and I am sure we will in the future.

Some innocents will die as a result of this war that was started by Muslim Extremists. But I will bet that there will be much fewer deaths caused by our Military than were murdered in NY and Penn.

Re: This was an attack on the status of women

paula on 9/23/01 at 19:28 (061361)

i have no doubt saddam is respnsible for the deaths or the misery of almost every citizen in iraq. but as i understand it, the estimated 100 thousand was due to the uttlerly ineffective war we waged with iraq. i am against shedding innocent blood of men women and children everywhere. not to mention cats, dogs, well all life. period. this is my stance. always has been always will be. now, as for the terrorists, saddam , the taliban, bin laden, et all. i say go get em. and while wer're at it, how about the schools for terrorists in palestine and other regions where they start inculcating young boys to grow up and do what was done in n.y,? gotta root that out, seems to me.

Re: Yes we are all bothered by many things but

paula on 9/23/01 at 19:32 (061362)

yes i agree with tammie that all discussions should stay polite and we all have the right to our opinions. i think debate is stimulating. that is why i'm answering. i do not feel anyone has hurt anyone's feelings. i do not feel anyon has attacked. this is a stimulating intellectual discussion and i hope it stays that way. it is good to get the facts out as we understand them. that is waht this country is about i hope. well, maybe we've hurt saddam's feelings, but i can live with that.

Re: Yes we are all bothered by many things but

paula on 9/23/01 at 19:39 (061363)

tammie you seem like a very sweet natured person.

Re: I am but don't mess with those I love

Tammie on 9/23/01 at 19:46 (061365)

Thank u lol I think, but as I said don't anyone mess with what or those I love as they are what I love and cherish and protect! Even if it means harm to me!!!! I am a very peace loving person until then and if something should happen all things leave my heart and mind. Just preseravation and protecting what I love. I can only hope that God rides with me in the empty seat and forgives me if I am wrong!

Re: Yes we are all bothered by many things but

Steve P on 9/23/01 at 19:59 (061366)

Paula --- i am not offended by anything you said & I hope vice versa. I also want to stay on Tammie's good side so I get a hug too. :-)

We all know how extremely serious this situation is; if the US does not act decisively, the next terrorist attack could be far, far more devastating than what has happened already.

You say you're worried about possible Afghan casualties. I respect that, but I suggest they may be necessary to keep MILLIONS of Americans from becoming casualties.

Steve

Re: Yes we are all bothered by many things but

paula on 9/23/01 at 20:08 (061370)

no offense taken here at all. am gratified at good debate. tammie that was meant to be a compliment, as we are all apparently jockying for more hugs.

Re: Ok then I have plenty to give out, Steve

Tammie on 9/23/01 at 21:37 (061377)

Steve, I have a special hug for you as I know that you love your country with all your heart and soul and I cannot find a fault in that!

I also know that you are a good person and a caring one as I have read your many posts! So lets see that may be 2 hugs lol!

(((((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))

((((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))) And may God always be at your side!

Re: Paula , I also have plenty for u also,

Tammie on 9/23/01 at 21:42 (061378)

As I know that you to have heart for what you believe in and love and for that I give you a hug also! I also think that you are a caring loving person for the ways that you worry about those who will be harmed in the cross fire , sad but true and may God give them peace and show them a mercifull love as he does for all of us! So I will give you a hug for that to lol!!
(((((((((((( Hugs))))))))))))))
(((((((((((( Hugs)))))))))))))) And may God be with you always.

Re: On going over there... WWII generation so different... Even the movie stars served...

Beverly on 9/24/01 at 13:26 (061431)

I too was saddened to see how horribly the women of Afganistan are treated, but this is simply a more extreme version of the way women are treated throughout the Middle East. I don't know that it is a problem we can solve.

Like someone above said, I too will support our President on whatever military action he takes. It seems very important to have a sense of unity now. (And I'm a Democrat and a liberal one at that.) And yes, I do hope civilian casualties are kept to a minimum.

I may have no right to say this, because I am not a mother of a draft age son; nor do I have a young husband who might get called up. But I can't help but see such a contrast in the reaction of our young adults to impending war and the WWII generation. I have been surprised to see over and over on TV young people interviewed (including teenage boys) who are scared and don't want to go... And to hear friends with draft age sons who are totally against having their baby called up. Anyone would be scared, but our father's generation did not hestiate to sign up and serve. And their mothers though scared and sad were proud to see them go.

Even movie stars served. Clark Gable enlisted after his wife, Carole Lombard's, plane crashed promoting war bonds. Montgomery Cliff went. Some of the great directors like Frank Capra went. I can't even remember all the famous names who went (article about this in yesterday's local paper). And we can't even list all the stars who went over to entertain the troops like Bob Hope. Can you imagine today's stars putting on a uniform or even risking going into a war zone to entertain the troops?

I always thought the lack of enthusiasm on Viet Nam was because we were not attacked like we were at Pearl Harbor. So, now we've been attacked on a grander scale, and still I see way too many boys who don't want to go.

And while I'm at it, sacrifices were made at home. I have long heard my parent's stories about rationing.

Food for thought,
Beverly

Re: On going over there... WWII generation so different... Even the movie stars served...

BG CPed on 9/24/01 at 14:26 (061435)

You are right. There is a great deal of apathy and self absorbsion with many young people. My Father went into WW 2 at 16 by faking his birth certificate. Many younger people think our freedoms are automatic and cant be taken or infringed upon. It is probably based in a general degredation of respect and patriotism. We are fortunate that we have a large enough volunteer military that should be enough to handle it.

Re: The 1941 Yankees

Steve P on 9/24/01 at 15:55 (061448)

Bev -- You're right. The entire starting lineup of the 1941 New York Yankees were in uniform. One of many examples.

Re: On going over there... WWII generation so different... Even the movie stars served...

Tammie on 9/24/01 at 16:04 (061452)

This allot of interesting thoughts here and I to have many of the same! I am a mother of 2 sons well one today will be 20 and one is 17 and will be 18 in 6 mnths! I also have a daughter who is 13. I have some of the mixed fears you have stated here and my hubby was Air Force. We believe in the need for military and the need for people to serve there country. I personaly think it is sad that the draft was altogether stopped. I believe the military teaches boys to become men at times tho that to can be debated!

I love my sons and have worries for them also and have stated that fact but have also urged them to be strong and do what they have to as a responsible adult and to protect your rights and the right to maintain this life you were given by your forefathers! I think at times we are to hard on the younger generation and assume they are lazy or uncaring with no feelings about our world and life. But i also think there are many grown adults who even were in offce who were draft dodgers and or avoided there responsibilities.

I think that when the need occurs young and old will do whats right and they like the young before, will serve there country and for whatever the reason they do it wether it is b draft( which many of long ago were not actually running to die for our country )but were drafted into duty and then matured and continued for the love of there country as they became men. In any case I believe that they will step up to the plate and do there share and will remain true to there country I am not taking away anything from what they have done just stating that not all went out of love or for want. This is a scary issue for any person be it a man or a child or a teen or women, war is scary and I think that if we are not willing to support what our country stands for we should not live here reaping the luxuries of freedom as we know it.

I will always be a mother as many mothers before me , I may not like what is needed from my young sons but I also will be proud of them if they accept what is needed from them and do it with honor! And Not to run from there duty! But I would also say that I do not urge my sons to run in right this min. and join any service unless that is what they want or need to do but to finish there schooling and if the need comes that u are needed go . And may you always remember many sons before u have gone and many sons died with honor and many came back with honor please keep God with you always so that we will meet again!

I think this is a fire issue and has most likly many views and many thoughts this is my thought only and do not wish to cause any distress . It just hit my heart and brought the recent conversations with my own sons to mind. And being human I have many worries and think that really things start in the home when children are young and taught history, how do u expect them to react to knowing they will likly die , it takes time and years to build them up to there sense of duty. It is much easier from a womans view as we are not expected to go and give our lives like they are asked to, I am not sure we really as women understand what goes thru a young mans mind, some are very gung ho and macho , some are quiet and sensitive but when put to the call hopefully all will respond! I guess that this is how I feel and hope again that I do not anger anyone by my thoughts as I might not know as much as some.

Re: On going over there... WWII generation so different... Even the movie stars served...

BG CPed on 9/24/01 at 17:42 (061454)

Well said Tammie

Re: On going over there... WWII generation so different... Even the movie stars served...

Donna M on 9/25/01 at 00:11 (061488)

Bless you Tammie~~as usual you come through like a shining star!!

I agree with you on so much of what you said. My hubby is a Vietnam vet and I so much agree with you that the military makes a boy a man. Like you said I know there will be others with a different opinion. When you watch these young people on TV that are interviewed, they do not plan on doing anything if it is not in 'their' plans or is not convenient to what they want.

It is sad that the majority of the younger generation is not concerned about anything or anybody, but 'themselves' and what 'they' want!

Re: the women of afghanastan

nancy s. on 9/22/01 at 23:34 (061315)

i'm with you completely, paula, and you put it very well.
i'm also with carmen on another board, where she's appreciating what you call your weird sense of humor -- i appreciate it too! is there such a thing as a 'cute but subtle' sense of humor? if so, you have it.
nancy

Re: the women of afghanastan

paula on 9/22/01 at 23:46 (061316)

thank you. that's a lot of appreciation for me in one night.

Re: This was an attack on the status of women

Steve P on 9/23/01 at 09:28 (061327)

Paula -- One of the things the attackers most hate about America is the status of women in this country & the West in general. Al-Quiba does not represent the religion they claim to, nor any religion at all. They are fanatics.

The attackers have special hatred for any society that gives women equal rights. That's why we must shut down the organization that supports them. In the long run, this will help their present victims (Afghanistani women) as well as all others.

Steve

Re: This was an attack on the status of women

paula on 9/23/01 at 12:47 (061335)

sure, agreed, unless we 'help' their current victims by bombing them to death.

Re: This was an attack on the status of women

Steve P on 9/23/01 at 15:37 (061343)

Paula, I understand where you're coming from. But realize that many Afghans are hoping & praying to be liberated from these tyrants. The sooner we start the better.

Re: This was an attack on the status of women

paula on 9/23/01 at 17:25 (061345)

the sooner we start what, is my point steve.

Re: This was an attack on the status of women

BG CPed on 9/23/01 at 17:54 (061350)

Not to jump in but I was bothered by many folks that seem to be more concerned about everybody else but Americans. I dont think anybody wishes or hopes to carpet bomb the whole country, nor will it happen. There will be surgical activities not indiscriminate mass bombings.

There was a picture of protesters at UofM the other day. There was a 19year old girl with a sign that read 'the real terrorists are in the Whitehouse' Their ignorance leaves me wondering whether to laugh or get sick. That stupid college co-ed has no clue that the country she hates gives her the right to prance around with a sign that promotes such ignorance. I would encourage these folks to go over to Afganistan with hugs and fruit baskets and see what would happen to them...they would be raped and killed just for being American

Not only do they not allow women to vote, go to school etc. They are hypocrits. The scum that flew into the WTC spent the night before in a strip bar drinking booze. These same men would take women from their own religion out in the desert and shoot them for kissing a boy or showing their ankles in public.

I cant believe the people that think we can be passive and bargain or reason with these animals. They are irrational and hate us. They are not interested in converting us to Islam. They were also ready to use crop dusters and chemicals over here. How many more do we need to die or be maimed. This may be unpopular but we live here, this is our country. In my opinion it is the best place in the world warts and all. The US has given over 135 million to Afgan. Islam states that everyone should give a percentage of assets to poor and sick. Bin Laden is a multi millionaire and it prob costs about 3 dollars a day to feed and cloth an Afgan.

Wars are not pretty and they get ugly but our freedom and way of life is at stake and our preservation is more important than what happens to Afganistan in the short term. If we remove the fanatical Muslims/Taliban and perhaps restore some form of better government then it will be a better place. Just remeber those people on those planes or in the WTC and think how you would feel if it was you or a family member

Sorry about the rant

Re: This was an attack on the status of women

paula on 9/23/01 at 18:34 (061354)

it is important to me what happens to the women and children of afghanastan in the short term. if this is going to be another iraq where an estimated 100 thousand women and children were killed, as opposed to the to the tyrant who is enjoying his life just fine even as we write i do not support such a thing. and i do not feel as confident as you do that that is not going to happen. i don't think my opinion means i am anti american or that i don't feel as strongly as others do about the americans who were murdered. in fact i believe my opinion makes me very pro american because i actually think we do have something fine to preserve here and if we kill innocent women then what exactly is it that we are proudly preserving? at any rate this is not the time to let emotions run away with us but the time to think things through very carefully so as to effectively bring these murderers to justice. just my opinion.

Re: Yes we are all bothered by many things but

Tammie on 9/23/01 at 18:58 (061356)

Please remember that is another reason america is great! People have the right to say how they feel without being persicuted, sorry spelling?
Be it right or wrong to us they still may speak and feel as they choose. So please don't get riled AGAIN! And I am not defending any one at this point I am just trying to point out that some will never agree but they have the right to feel as they do! And Heh, i like to give hugs does that make me a bad person even if I offer to someone who may in turn hurt me? Now I am not trying to say I believe as any of you here , I have my own thoughts on the whole thing!

But I will no matter what happens be 100% behind my country and lawmakers and goverment and be there to give support to all of them ! I am not a judge to what is right or wrong, that is not my job. Nor is it my job to attack others for a difference of there opioions just listen politely and continue to believe as I choose! Most often you can't change anothers thougths anyways! Most are to stubborn! You all have had interesting thoughts combine several of them and we have a great country!!!!!!!!! Which is what we have! i want to underline this but do not know how! May God always be with us and our great Country and those who love it and protect it and fight for it!

I just do not want to see the fights start here again , to much energy wasted and nothing acomplished with it! Sometimes words hurt much more then any type of pain. So please try to keep in mind that there are many high charged feelings going on, lets not destroy a good place that has been put here! Calm was just starting to occur. You and others are smart folks and I for one value your thoughts and advice on many things even this issue! As Long as it is not mean or hurtful to anyone here. Some places in life must remain peaceful, and a safe haven, this is my thought anyways!

Re: This was an attack on the status of women

BGCPed on 9/23/01 at 19:04 (061357)

What exactly was the direct cause of death of the 100 thousand? I dont believe it was from thomahawk or cruise missles. If you are goinr to make the argument that the US is the cause because Saddam is happy to blow money on himself and not take care of his citizens then it is wrong to say the US caused the death. I also wonder why you only point out women and children as being tragic, were the mens deaths less tragic?

You are right about Saddam, and hopefully the butcher will die a miserable death during this conflict so the decent people of Iraq may progress to a more free country. Again I dont believe anybody thinks carpet bombing would be wise. But they will not stop so they must be systematically eliminated. The Taliban, Saddam, Bin Laden and their ilk are the ones responsible for the fate of their region. Spending 95 percent of their time planing and executing terror is not the way good religeous leaders should be helping poor citizens. The US has contributed much more than Bin Laden has to Afganistan and I am sure we will in the future.

Some innocents will die as a result of this war that was started by Muslim Extremists. But I will bet that there will be much fewer deaths caused by our Military than were murdered in NY and Penn.

Re: This was an attack on the status of women

paula on 9/23/01 at 19:28 (061361)

i have no doubt saddam is respnsible for the deaths or the misery of almost every citizen in iraq. but as i understand it, the estimated 100 thousand was due to the uttlerly ineffective war we waged with iraq. i am against shedding innocent blood of men women and children everywhere. not to mention cats, dogs, well all life. period. this is my stance. always has been always will be. now, as for the terrorists, saddam , the taliban, bin laden, et all. i say go get em. and while wer're at it, how about the schools for terrorists in palestine and other regions where they start inculcating young boys to grow up and do what was done in n.y,? gotta root that out, seems to me.

Re: Yes we are all bothered by many things but

paula on 9/23/01 at 19:32 (061362)

yes i agree with tammie that all discussions should stay polite and we all have the right to our opinions. i think debate is stimulating. that is why i'm answering. i do not feel anyone has hurt anyone's feelings. i do not feel anyon has attacked. this is a stimulating intellectual discussion and i hope it stays that way. it is good to get the facts out as we understand them. that is waht this country is about i hope. well, maybe we've hurt saddam's feelings, but i can live with that.

Re: Yes we are all bothered by many things but

paula on 9/23/01 at 19:39 (061363)

tammie you seem like a very sweet natured person.

Re: I am but don't mess with those I love

Tammie on 9/23/01 at 19:46 (061365)

Thank u lol I think, but as I said don't anyone mess with what or those I love as they are what I love and cherish and protect! Even if it means harm to me!!!! I am a very peace loving person until then and if something should happen all things leave my heart and mind. Just preseravation and protecting what I love. I can only hope that God rides with me in the empty seat and forgives me if I am wrong!

Re: Yes we are all bothered by many things but

Steve P on 9/23/01 at 19:59 (061366)

Paula --- i am not offended by anything you said & I hope vice versa. I also want to stay on Tammie's good side so I get a hug too. :-)

We all know how extremely serious this situation is; if the US does not act decisively, the next terrorist attack could be far, far more devastating than what has happened already.

You say you're worried about possible Afghan casualties. I respect that, but I suggest they may be necessary to keep MILLIONS of Americans from becoming casualties.

Steve

Re: Yes we are all bothered by many things but

paula on 9/23/01 at 20:08 (061370)

no offense taken here at all. am gratified at good debate. tammie that was meant to be a compliment, as we are all apparently jockying for more hugs.

Re: Ok then I have plenty to give out, Steve

Tammie on 9/23/01 at 21:37 (061377)

Steve, I have a special hug for you as I know that you love your country with all your heart and soul and I cannot find a fault in that!

I also know that you are a good person and a caring one as I have read your many posts! So lets see that may be 2 hugs lol!

(((((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))

((((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))) And may God always be at your side!

Re: Paula , I also have plenty for u also,

Tammie on 9/23/01 at 21:42 (061378)

As I know that you to have heart for what you believe in and love and for that I give you a hug also! I also think that you are a caring loving person for the ways that you worry about those who will be harmed in the cross fire , sad but true and may God give them peace and show them a mercifull love as he does for all of us! So I will give you a hug for that to lol!!
(((((((((((( Hugs))))))))))))))
(((((((((((( Hugs)))))))))))))) And may God be with you always.

Re: On going over there... WWII generation so different... Even the movie stars served...

Beverly on 9/24/01 at 13:26 (061431)

I too was saddened to see how horribly the women of Afganistan are treated, but this is simply a more extreme version of the way women are treated throughout the Middle East. I don't know that it is a problem we can solve.

Like someone above said, I too will support our President on whatever military action he takes. It seems very important to have a sense of unity now. (And I'm a Democrat and a liberal one at that.) And yes, I do hope civilian casualties are kept to a minimum.

I may have no right to say this, because I am not a mother of a draft age son; nor do I have a young husband who might get called up. But I can't help but see such a contrast in the reaction of our young adults to impending war and the WWII generation. I have been surprised to see over and over on TV young people interviewed (including teenage boys) who are scared and don't want to go... And to hear friends with draft age sons who are totally against having their baby called up. Anyone would be scared, but our father's generation did not hestiate to sign up and serve. And their mothers though scared and sad were proud to see them go.

Even movie stars served. Clark Gable enlisted after his wife, Carole Lombard's, plane crashed promoting war bonds. Montgomery Cliff went. Some of the great directors like Frank Capra went. I can't even remember all the famous names who went (article about this in yesterday's local paper). And we can't even list all the stars who went over to entertain the troops like Bob Hope. Can you imagine today's stars putting on a uniform or even risking going into a war zone to entertain the troops?

I always thought the lack of enthusiasm on Viet Nam was because we were not attacked like we were at Pearl Harbor. So, now we've been attacked on a grander scale, and still I see way too many boys who don't want to go.

And while I'm at it, sacrifices were made at home. I have long heard my parent's stories about rationing.

Food for thought,
Beverly

Re: On going over there... WWII generation so different... Even the movie stars served...

BG CPed on 9/24/01 at 14:26 (061435)

You are right. There is a great deal of apathy and self absorbsion with many young people. My Father went into WW 2 at 16 by faking his birth certificate. Many younger people think our freedoms are automatic and cant be taken or infringed upon. It is probably based in a general degredation of respect and patriotism. We are fortunate that we have a large enough volunteer military that should be enough to handle it.

Re: The 1941 Yankees

Steve P on 9/24/01 at 15:55 (061448)

Bev -- You're right. The entire starting lineup of the 1941 New York Yankees were in uniform. One of many examples.

Re: On going over there... WWII generation so different... Even the movie stars served...

Tammie on 9/24/01 at 16:04 (061452)

This allot of interesting thoughts here and I to have many of the same! I am a mother of 2 sons well one today will be 20 and one is 17 and will be 18 in 6 mnths! I also have a daughter who is 13. I have some of the mixed fears you have stated here and my hubby was Air Force. We believe in the need for military and the need for people to serve there country. I personaly think it is sad that the draft was altogether stopped. I believe the military teaches boys to become men at times tho that to can be debated!

I love my sons and have worries for them also and have stated that fact but have also urged them to be strong and do what they have to as a responsible adult and to protect your rights and the right to maintain this life you were given by your forefathers! I think at times we are to hard on the younger generation and assume they are lazy or uncaring with no feelings about our world and life. But i also think there are many grown adults who even were in offce who were draft dodgers and or avoided there responsibilities.

I think that when the need occurs young and old will do whats right and they like the young before, will serve there country and for whatever the reason they do it wether it is b draft( which many of long ago were not actually running to die for our country )but were drafted into duty and then matured and continued for the love of there country as they became men. In any case I believe that they will step up to the plate and do there share and will remain true to there country I am not taking away anything from what they have done just stating that not all went out of love or for want. This is a scary issue for any person be it a man or a child or a teen or women, war is scary and I think that if we are not willing to support what our country stands for we should not live here reaping the luxuries of freedom as we know it.

I will always be a mother as many mothers before me , I may not like what is needed from my young sons but I also will be proud of them if they accept what is needed from them and do it with honor! And Not to run from there duty! But I would also say that I do not urge my sons to run in right this min. and join any service unless that is what they want or need to do but to finish there schooling and if the need comes that u are needed go . And may you always remember many sons before u have gone and many sons died with honor and many came back with honor please keep God with you always so that we will meet again!

I think this is a fire issue and has most likly many views and many thoughts this is my thought only and do not wish to cause any distress . It just hit my heart and brought the recent conversations with my own sons to mind. And being human I have many worries and think that really things start in the home when children are young and taught history, how do u expect them to react to knowing they will likly die , it takes time and years to build them up to there sense of duty. It is much easier from a womans view as we are not expected to go and give our lives like they are asked to, I am not sure we really as women understand what goes thru a young mans mind, some are very gung ho and macho , some are quiet and sensitive but when put to the call hopefully all will respond! I guess that this is how I feel and hope again that I do not anger anyone by my thoughts as I might not know as much as some.

Re: On going over there... WWII generation so different... Even the movie stars served...

BG CPed on 9/24/01 at 17:42 (061454)

Well said Tammie

Re: On going over there... WWII generation so different... Even the movie stars served...

Donna M on 9/25/01 at 00:11 (061488)

Bless you Tammie~~as usual you come through like a shining star!!

I agree with you on so much of what you said. My hubby is a Vietnam vet and I so much agree with you that the military makes a boy a man. Like you said I know there will be others with a different opinion. When you watch these young people on TV that are interviewed, they do not plan on doing anything if it is not in 'their' plans or is not convenient to what they want.

It is sad that the majority of the younger generation is not concerned about anything or anybody, but 'themselves' and what 'they' want!