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Dr. ed and Z

Posted by Carmen H on 11/02/01 at 09:07 (063996)

VERY strange thing happened this past week....Last Friday my pain level in my feet (bilateral PF) was a 7 and I started moving (we moved into a new home all weekend) and the pain was BAD...I mean like a nine all day through Monday. I even took my shoes off to get relief and stood barefoot while I painted it hurt too bad to wear shoes. Well Weds. morning I did the usual same old routine (got up and stretched hamstrings, calves, feet,)and came to work (I sit all day at a computer) and instead of the usual pain starting 10 minutes after I get up (burning aching pain all day but worst at night) my pain didn't start until 4 in the afternoon! After stretching and icing it settled down and never started again until the next evening around 5. It is now Friday and the same thing....no morning pain so far.
Is this a sign that it is easing up or going away? The only thing I have done differently this week is to up the doses of Vitamin C and E I have been taking and icing at night instead of in the morning.
Other than that...nothing different.
I know Vit. C is good for inflammation and it's the time released kind so it's not emptied out immediately, and the E is good for circulation (if not taken in toxic levels). Maybe with all the tingling and burning I had going on in my feet the circulation was poor due to inflammation? Possibly slowing the healing process? I have no idea but I am grateful for the days I have had NO pain (MILD at worst) all day. If it's short lived than I will deal as it happens...just curious on your opinions.
THANK you!

Re: Dr. ed and Z

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/02/01 at 11:33 (064003)

Just keep doing what you are doing cause it appears to be helping you alot
SOOOOOO glad the pain is reduced

Re: Thanks Dr. Z

Carmen H on 11/02/01 at 11:50 (064004)

I wanted to send you an email as well Dr. Z. to let you know how much I appreciate you and also your staff's attention to me all the way down here in GA. They have called twice to check in with me and that was just sooo nice!!!! I didn't have your email though....so THANKS and please tell your staff thanks for calling me too.
I will keep it up and hope for the best......

Re: Vitamin C

Glenn X on 11/03/01 at 11:56 (064051)

Hey Carmen: Sure appreciate your research. You're tenacious. I haven't been keen on supplements, but I think I'll go after Vitamin C for a while. (Seems less traumatic than Brussell Sprouts, though that direction makes nice sense too).

What's a crazy dose? And is there a preferred brand, combo, time release?

I continue making slooowww progress. Still obsessing on ankle dorsiflexion. Last few degrees are very tough. Right foot improved considerably from three months ago, still a good ways to go. Left foot worse, but not as bad as right. Have started taping regular, Scott's way. I suspect if taping can facilitate more activity, the combination of rest for the fascia ( tape) and, stretching of the calves and hamstrings, and exercise for foot and leg muscles may be helpful.

Take care.

Re: Vitamin C

JudyS on 11/04/01 at 16:37 (064115)

Glenn - you mention here the 'last few degrees' of dorsiflexion - does that mean that you have an actual degree goal you're working towards? If so, what is it?

Re: Glenn

Carmen H on 11/05/01 at 07:37 (064147)

Hello Glenn! I would get any 'non generic' brand of Time Release Vitamin C. In other words try something like 'Nature Made' 1000 mg time release. I take 3-4,000 mg a day. One in morning, one at noon, one mid day and one at night. Since vitamin C will be 'dumped out' in your urine it is non toxic and can't hurt you in that sense. I also upped my vitamin E (for circulation...thoguht it would help the healing process getting more blood flow to the feet) to 800-1200 mg a day. Be careful with that though if you decide to try it. I think in REALLY high doses it can be toxic...but would have to be REALLY high.
I am glad you are still continuing with your stretching....my dorsiflexion is way beyond 90 degress now and the hamstring tightness and calf tightness is gone almost completely. I can actually put my head on my knee now....! wow huh?
Let me know how the C does for you. I will be watching for your posts!!!
take care Glenn and thanks for writing!!
Carmen

Re: Vitamin C

Glenn X on 11/05/01 at 11:17 (064153)

Judy: I do have a goal -- two actually: 80 degrees in the near term, 75 in the longer, which puts my foot angle well past 90 degrees moving toward my face when dorsiflexing.

I think it's absolutely essential we have a target angle of dorsiflexion to aim for. Otherwise stretching can be an irrelevant effort.

Dr. Ed measures me each visit, as does my PT. Measuring is an inexact process, and their results differ slightly, but just by a couple of degrees. Depending on the day, I am still some 7 degrees short of my near-term goal.

I also measure hamstrings. Lying on my back I can raise legs to 95 degrees, 5 degrees short of vertical. I'd like to get to 80 here too.

In calves and hamstrings both, it increasingly feels like I'm trying to stretch steel cable, which is why the last few degrees seem so tough.

Re: Glenn

Glenn X on 11/05/01 at 11:30 (064155)

Carmen: Good for you on the flexibility! I'm way jealous. Head on my knee??? Maybe if I lopped it off first.

I think I'm plateaued on flexibility, and am not sure how to get over the hump without injury. PT is deep masssaging calves a couple of times a week before stretching, and I think that helps. Maybe too if I could fold me up and put me in a drawer for a couple of weeks things would loosen more.

Thanks for the Vitamin suggestions. I'll do the C for a while and see how goes.

Re: Glenn

ellen w on 11/05/01 at 16:57 (064175)

This is what's helped my hamstring stretching -- loop a theraband around the bottom of your foot. Raise leg as far as it will comfortably go. Count to 10 then use the theraband to pull it further. Hold for another count of ten. Pull further and count to ten. Do not pull so far that you are in pain.

After each pause, I find I can pull my leg a little further than I thought possible.

You could also have a 'stretching partner' help push your leg forward, though it might help for her/him to get instructions on this from your pt.

Ellen

Re: Glenn.....another laugh. thanks.

Carmen H on 11/06/01 at 12:46 (064240)

You're silly...there will be no head lopping here!!!!
I used to be the SAME way...hell I couldn't even touch my knees with my hands leaning over standing up. I mean I was and still am by any normal standards VERY unflexible. When I was little I used to try in vain to do the splits...I could flip upside down with no hands, turn cartwheels with no hands but ask me to do the splits and forget about it!
you'll get there....you use heat before stretching don't you?
It may help.
Keep me posted.

Re: Glenn

Glenn X on 11/07/01 at 15:31 (064323)

Ellen: Thank you. With hamstrings I seem to get to pain before I get to stretch. It's like my tendons start squealing before my muscles can even take a breath.

It may be that I am getting some stretch to the muscles before the onset of discomfort. It's just more subtle than I'm used to, as in a good calf stretch. I'll go after your suggestion.

Re: Dr. ed and Z

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/02/01 at 11:33 (064003)

Just keep doing what you are doing cause it appears to be helping you alot
SOOOOOO glad the pain is reduced

Re: Thanks Dr. Z

Carmen H on 11/02/01 at 11:50 (064004)

I wanted to send you an email as well Dr. Z. to let you know how much I appreciate you and also your staff's attention to me all the way down here in GA. They have called twice to check in with me and that was just sooo nice!!!! I didn't have your email though....so THANKS and please tell your staff thanks for calling me too.
I will keep it up and hope for the best......

Re: Vitamin C

Glenn X on 11/03/01 at 11:56 (064051)

Hey Carmen: Sure appreciate your research. You're tenacious. I haven't been keen on supplements, but I think I'll go after Vitamin C for a while. (Seems less traumatic than Brussell Sprouts, though that direction makes nice sense too).

What's a crazy dose? And is there a preferred brand, combo, time release?

I continue making slooowww progress. Still obsessing on ankle dorsiflexion. Last few degrees are very tough. Right foot improved considerably from three months ago, still a good ways to go. Left foot worse, but not as bad as right. Have started taping regular, Scott's way. I suspect if taping can facilitate more activity, the combination of rest for the fascia ( tape) and, stretching of the calves and hamstrings, and exercise for foot and leg muscles may be helpful.

Take care.

Re: Vitamin C

JudyS on 11/04/01 at 16:37 (064115)

Glenn - you mention here the 'last few degrees' of dorsiflexion - does that mean that you have an actual degree goal you're working towards? If so, what is it?

Re: Glenn

Carmen H on 11/05/01 at 07:37 (064147)

Hello Glenn! I would get any 'non generic' brand of Time Release Vitamin C. In other words try something like 'Nature Made' 1000 mg time release. I take 3-4,000 mg a day. One in morning, one at noon, one mid day and one at night. Since vitamin C will be 'dumped out' in your urine it is non toxic and can't hurt you in that sense. I also upped my vitamin E (for circulation...thoguht it would help the healing process getting more blood flow to the feet) to 800-1200 mg a day. Be careful with that though if you decide to try it. I think in REALLY high doses it can be toxic...but would have to be REALLY high.
I am glad you are still continuing with your stretching....my dorsiflexion is way beyond 90 degress now and the hamstring tightness and calf tightness is gone almost completely. I can actually put my head on my knee now....! wow huh?
Let me know how the C does for you. I will be watching for your posts!!!
take care Glenn and thanks for writing!!
Carmen

Re: Vitamin C

Glenn X on 11/05/01 at 11:17 (064153)

Judy: I do have a goal -- two actually: 80 degrees in the near term, 75 in the longer, which puts my foot angle well past 90 degrees moving toward my face when dorsiflexing.

I think it's absolutely essential we have a target angle of dorsiflexion to aim for. Otherwise stretching can be an irrelevant effort.

Dr. Ed measures me each visit, as does my PT. Measuring is an inexact process, and their results differ slightly, but just by a couple of degrees. Depending on the day, I am still some 7 degrees short of my near-term goal.

I also measure hamstrings. Lying on my back I can raise legs to 95 degrees, 5 degrees short of vertical. I'd like to get to 80 here too.

In calves and hamstrings both, it increasingly feels like I'm trying to stretch steel cable, which is why the last few degrees seem so tough.

Re: Glenn

Glenn X on 11/05/01 at 11:30 (064155)

Carmen: Good for you on the flexibility! I'm way jealous. Head on my knee??? Maybe if I lopped it off first.

I think I'm plateaued on flexibility, and am not sure how to get over the hump without injury. PT is deep masssaging calves a couple of times a week before stretching, and I think that helps. Maybe too if I could fold me up and put me in a drawer for a couple of weeks things would loosen more.

Thanks for the Vitamin suggestions. I'll do the C for a while and see how goes.

Re: Glenn

ellen w on 11/05/01 at 16:57 (064175)

This is what's helped my hamstring stretching -- loop a theraband around the bottom of your foot. Raise leg as far as it will comfortably go. Count to 10 then use the theraband to pull it further. Hold for another count of ten. Pull further and count to ten. Do not pull so far that you are in pain.

After each pause, I find I can pull my leg a little further than I thought possible.

You could also have a 'stretching partner' help push your leg forward, though it might help for her/him to get instructions on this from your pt.

Ellen

Re: Glenn.....another laugh. thanks.

Carmen H on 11/06/01 at 12:46 (064240)

You're silly...there will be no head lopping here!!!!
I used to be the SAME way...hell I couldn't even touch my knees with my hands leaning over standing up. I mean I was and still am by any normal standards VERY unflexible. When I was little I used to try in vain to do the splits...I could flip upside down with no hands, turn cartwheels with no hands but ask me to do the splits and forget about it!
you'll get there....you use heat before stretching don't you?
It may help.
Keep me posted.

Re: Glenn

Glenn X on 11/07/01 at 15:31 (064323)

Ellen: Thank you. With hamstrings I seem to get to pain before I get to stretch. It's like my tendons start squealing before my muscles can even take a breath.

It may be that I am getting some stretch to the muscles before the onset of discomfort. It's just more subtle than I'm used to, as in a good calf stretch. I'll go after your suggestion.