Home The Book Dr Articles Products Message Boards Journal Articles Search Our Surveys Surgery ESWT Dr Messages Find Good Drs video

What do we know about B12?

Posted by Scott R on 11/05/01 at 07:31 (064146)

Dear Scott, Several years ago, I developed foot pain diagnosed as heel
spurs/plantar fasciitus. Ignored it as long as possible, but when it became difficult to do my farm chores, I paid a visit to my holistic doctor. He recommended vitamin B-12 drops, sublingual. The difference was rapid and astonishing!! Hope this may help others.........Marion...

Re: What do we know about B12?

Ed Davis, DPM on 11/05/01 at 19:24 (064182)

A deficiency of B12 can lead to burning pain on the bottom of the foot---peripheral neuropathy. Chances are that Marion's diagnosis of PF was not correct if the B12 helped--she had neuropathy which was cured by the B12.
Ed

Re: What do we know about B12?

RACHAEL T. on 11/05/01 at 19:51 (064189)

HI MARION, I AM INTERESTED IN YOUR B-12 DROPS EXPERIENCE. CAN YOU EXPOUND ON IT? I, TOO, A PROFESSIONAL HORSETRAINER WHO TENDS TO ABOUT 20 STALLED SHOW HORSES AM HAVING EXTREME DIFFICULTY DOING MY CHORES & TRAINING. I HAVE HAD THE SHOTS, PILLS, STRETCHING, ORTHOTICS, & SUCH & AM PRESENTLY CONSIDERING ESWT -- BUT, PRESENTLY, I TOO HAVE A GOOD DEAL OF BURNING - MORE THAN THE PF. PAIN THAT I PREVIOUSLY HAVE BEEN SUFFERING WITH -- I AM WONDERING IF B12 COULD BE MY TICKET TO HEALTH....I SHALL TRY IT IMMEDIATELY - BY GOING TO THE STORE TONIGHT! BUT, IN THE MEANTIME, FILL ME IN ON YOUR DETAILS! HOW LONG BEFORE IT KICKS INTO EFFECT? THANKS - & BY THE WAY, WHAT KIND OF FARMER ARE YOU? COWS, CHICKENS, HORSES, CROPS, OR WHAT?

Re: isn't that one of our bombers? :-)

elliott on 11/06/01 at 16:04 (064250)

I have another question: What's the diff between B12 and B6? For my TTS tingling, besides neurontin, it was vitamin B6 I was told to try.

Re: isn't that one of our bombers? :-)

bombers and B vitamins on 11/06/01 at 21:02 (064273)

The B complex of vitamins are a related group of water soluble vitamins.
B1, also known as Thiamine, B2 or Riboflavin, B6 or Pyridoxine, B12, Niacin, Inositol are commonly accepted members of the B family.
The B1 bomber is the first swing wing or variable geometry supersonic heavy bombers--the wings are moveable to change the aerodynamics. The B2 is the stealth bomber.

Vitamin B12 deficiencies lead to peripheral neuropathy, the symptoms of which can mimic diabetic neuropathy or occasionally TTS. Pyridoxine or B6 had been recommended for symptoms of diabetic neuropathy with minimal results.
Ed

Re: So B1 (bomber) + B2 (bomber) = vitamin B12 ?

elliott on 11/06/01 at 23:02 (064285)

My orthopedist even wrote a paper in which he suggested giving B6 a try. (Does two B6 tablets equal one B12? :-)) Admits, though, that hard studies as to efficacy are lacking, but recommends a dose of 50 mg two or three times daily as safe. He then adds, scarily, 'Higher doses may actually cause peripheral neuropathy.' Ever heard that? Is that true with B12 as well? What is the recommended dose of B12?

Re: So B1 (bomber) + B2 (bomber) = vitamin B12 ?

wendyn on 11/07/01 at 23:00 (064371)

From the reading I have done:

You CAN take too much B6 - taken in high doses it can actually cause neuropathy.

There is no known upper safe limit to B12. Most multivitamins contain about 2 or 3 mcg (micrograms). A 'Stress tab' usually has around 50 mcg of B12. I currently take 1 250 mcg or sometimes 2 250 mcg per day. Ideally I should probably be taking more.

A shot of B12 has well over 1000 mcg (from what I recall).

The problem is that some people do not absorb B12 well, and a lot of it is destroyed in the digestive process (this is why many people take injections or the tables under the tongue). Eating calves liver will also give you a massive dose of B12.

In addition, you need other B vitamins to properly absorb the B12.

Taking folic acid without B12 can actually mask a serious B12 deficiency. If you are concerned about your B12 levels - have them tested by your doctor.

Very low B12 will eventually cause pernicious (sp?) anemia - back in the 1930's or there abouts, and before, it used to kill a lot of old people. People sometimes lose their ability to absorb B12 as they age. Untreated, dangeriously low B12 will eventually cause serious neurological damage and then death.

In a normal healthy non-vegetarian, a true B12 deficiency isn't very common. Your body doesn't use very much of it - and vegetarians can take years to develop a deficiency because their body has enough stored up. I was found to be quite low in it - but I have no idea why.

I also ready somewhere that nitrous oxide gas (happy gas) can deplete the stores of B12.

Sometimes I can't remember where I read this stuff - so take it with a grain of salt.

I have read too much about B12. But I still think it helped me a lot.

Re: wow! sounds like you really know your B12

elliott on 11/08/01 at 13:30 (064414)

Thanks.

Two more questions:

1. Are you saying that a B6 deficiency is more likely than a B12 deficiency?

2. You say that for a normal healthy non-vegetarian, a B12 deficiency is not common. Well, what about for those who already have TTS?

Re: wow! sounds like you really know your B12

wendyn on 11/08/01 at 14:18 (064418)

Elliott, I'm not sure if a B6 deficiency would be more common than a B12 deficiency. But from what I understand - it's supposed to be easy to get lots of B12 from a normal healthy diet. Someone who doesn't eat any animal products at all may have a tough time getting enough B12 - but your body isn't supposed to require much either.

On the other hand, we all know that it is difficult for a lot of people to get enough calcium in their diet. Folic acid deficency also seems to a concern, as well as low iron in some women.

Could B12 have a healing or theraputic effect on damaged nerves?
Could the body 'use up' more B12 trying to heal damaged nerves?
Has medicine so far underestimated how much we need, what in fact is a deficiency - and how beneficial B12 could be?

I have more questions than I do answers.

From what I've read though, being tested for low B12 is a good idea if you're having burning, tingling pain etc. Even if the results are normal, it's probably not a bad idea to start taking a multivitam, or b-complex plus some extra B12.

Re: So B1 (bomber) + B2 (bomber) = vitamin B12 ?

Ed Davis, DPM on 11/08/01 at 15:18 (064427)

I am getting away a bit from my field, but it is impossible to overdose or take a toxic dose of the B vitamins, to the best of my knowledge. There is some controversy over 'recommended' doses but the official word is the 'RDA' which stands for the 'recommended daily allowance' and can generally be found printed on all vitamin labels. I have never heard of high doses of B6 nor B12 causing peripheral neuropathy.
Ed

Re: vitamin B12 deficiency

Ed Davis, DPM on 11/08/01 at 15:25 (064429)

One reason for B12 deficiency is not a lack of B12 in the diet but due to difficulty with absorbtion of B12. The stomach secretes a substance known as intrinsic factor which is necessary for B12 absorbtion. Individuals with a lack of intrinsic factor often take B12 by injection.

H2 inhibitors such as Tagamet, that is, the medications used to block excess stomach acid secretion can also reduce the secretion of intrinsic factor.
Ed

Re: vitamin B12 deficiency

B12 and neuromas on 11/08/01 at 15:29 (064430)

Neuromas are painful benign enlarged nerve growths that are sometimes treated via cortisone injections. I cannot explain why, but when B12 is added to the cortisone injection, the results are better. The B12 is having some unexplained beneficial effect on the nerve.

I have, on occasion, when treating TTS conservatively with steroid and Wydase injections, added B12 to the mix and have gotten better results. Again, I do not know why and have no scientific proof.
Ed

Re: So B1 (bomber) + B2 (bomber) = vitamin B12 ?

wendyn on 11/08/01 at 17:41 (064447)

Dr Ed - I know that the B vitamins are supposed to be safe at high levels - but I'm certain that I've found fairly reliable references saying that too much B6 can actually cause neuropathy.

What would be the best way to prove or disprove this idea?

Is there a fairly reliable up to date reference we could check?

Re: Info on B6

wendyn on 11/08/01 at 17:47 (064449)

Links:

http://www.cc.nih.gov/ccc/supplements/vitb6.html#risk
Vitamin B6 and carpal tunnel syndrome
Vitamin B6 was first recommended for carpal tunnel syndrome almost 30 years ago (21). Several popular books still recommend taking 100 to 200 milligrams (mg) of vitamin B6 daily to treat carpal tunnel syndrome, even though scientific studies do not indicate it is effective. Anyone taking large doses of vitamin B6 supplements for carpal tunnel syndrome needs to be aware that the Institute of Medicine recently established an upper tolerable limit of 100 mg per day for adults (12). There are documented cases in the literature of neuropathy caused by excessive vitamin B6 taken for treatment of carpal tunnel syndrome (22).

What is the health risk of too much vitamin B6 ?

Too much vitamin B6 can result in nerve damage to the arms and legs. This neuropathy is usually related to high intake of vitamin B6 from supplements, (28) and is reversible when supplementation is stopped. According to the Institute of Medicine, 'Several reports show sensory neuropathy at doses lower than 500 mg per day' (12). As previously mentioned, the Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine has established an upper tolerable intake level (UL) for vitamin B6 of 100 mg per day for all adults (12). 'As intake increases above the UL, the risk of adverse effects increases (12).'

Re: More on B6

wendyn on 11/08/01 at 18:00 (064450)

http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section1/chapter3/3n.htm

The ingestion of megadoses (2 to 6 g/day for 2 to 40 mo) of pyridoxine, mistakenly taken for premenstrual tension, may cause progressive sensory ataxia and profound lower limb impairment of position and vibration sense. Senses of touch, temperature, and pain are less affected. The motor and central nervous systems are unimpaired. Recovery is slow and, in some patients, is only partial after pyridoxine ingestion is stopped.

http://news6.thdo.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/medical_notes/newsid_91000/91597.stm

How much is too much?

Scientific studies have shown that B6 can be dangerous in very high doses. One study suggested that long term use of doses of 500 times the recommended daily level may cause damage to the nervous system. A second study found adverse effects in humans from ingesting a dose as low as 50mg a day, although there are question marks over the methods used in this investigation. The government plans to limit the sale of over-the-counter B6 to 10mg doses, with a doctor's prescription needed for larger amounts.

http://www.sbwise.com/ingredients/vitamin_b6.htm

SAFETY ISSUES

Vitamin B6 may produce some signs of toxicity if taken in large doses for long periods of time. Doses greater than 2,000 milligrams per day can produce symptoms of nerve toxicity (tingling sensations in the feet, loss of muscle coordination, and degeneration of nerve tissue) in some individuals. Dosages greater than 500 milligrams daily can be toxic if taken daily for many months or years (Murray, 1996). The neurotoxicity is believed to be due to exceeding the liver's ability to phosphorylate vitamin B6 to the active coenzyme, pyridoxal phosphate. The resulting high vitamin b serum levels could be directly neurotoxic or may compete for binding sites with pyridoxal phosphate resulting in a relative deficiency of the active metabolite (Werbach, 1993; Murray, 1996).

People taking levadopa for Parkinson's disease should consult a physician before taking vitamin B6 because the vitamin interferes with the absorption of the drug (Kirschmann, 1996).

Re: Info on B6

elliott on 11/09/01 at 08:32 (064482)

Your first source gives references in parenthetical numbers, but I can't seem to find the references in that article. Are they there somewhere?

Re: Info on B6

wendyn on 11/09/01 at 09:50 (064492)

Did you go to the links? Did they work?

Re: vitamins vs. drugs

Ed Davis, DPM on 11/09/01 at 15:40 (064530)

They are looking at very high doses. I din not have time to go through all of the details.

I remember a very important thing that my biochemistry professor in school once said:

'Vitamins, when taken in doses above their normal therapeutic ranges are no longer vitamins, they are drugs.'

Vitamins are co-factors or co-enzymes used to catalyze chemical reactions in the body. Such substances generally perform their functions at fairly low levels.
Ed

Re: vitamins vs. drugs

wendyn on 11/10/01 at 09:19 (064592)

I agree - people need to be careful about what they take - and how much of it.

The bottom line is that there seems to be an abundance of information out there that despite the fact the B6 is water soluable, it is possible to take too much. I pulled off several links supporting that theory in just a matter of minutes.

If in doubt - I would think it wise to check with phamacist before starting to take additional B6 supplements. I only take what comes in a multivitamin - so I figure I'm pretty safe.

Re: vitamins vs. drugs

Scott R on 11/10/01 at 09:55 (064597)

No one ever dies from a vitamin overdose. something like 200,000 people die each year from doctor-perscribed drugs, usually when taken as directed. naturally-occuring compounds fall into a limited set of shapes because their designs are based on the limited abilities of DNA. Synthetic compounds have a much wider range of possible shapes. We have evolved only to tolerate the DNA-derived shapes. That's why synthetic compounds are so dangerous. People too often make the mistake of taking vitamin 'warnings' as seriously as the warnings for the synthetic compounds. They both come in pill form, but they are not the same. There is a casecase reported where someone felt tingling at 500 mg/day. At about 5,000 mg/day for over a year, severe effects were noticed in some people. It took 2 years before they were almost back to normal. There are no reports of death or acute toxicity.

Re: vitamins vs. drugs

Barbara TX on 11/10/01 at 10:43 (064604)

Even though adults can tolerate large amts of vitamins, pregnant women (if I remember correctly) should make sure that they don't get too much Vitamin A because it can cause serious complications, and a young child can die if they ingest too much iron - thus the warnings on even kiddie vitamins. B.

Re: What do we know about B12?

Ed Davis, DPM on 11/05/01 at 19:24 (064182)

A deficiency of B12 can lead to burning pain on the bottom of the foot---peripheral neuropathy. Chances are that Marion's diagnosis of PF was not correct if the B12 helped--she had neuropathy which was cured by the B12.
Ed

Re: What do we know about B12?

RACHAEL T. on 11/05/01 at 19:51 (064189)

HI MARION, I AM INTERESTED IN YOUR B-12 DROPS EXPERIENCE. CAN YOU EXPOUND ON IT? I, TOO, A PROFESSIONAL HORSETRAINER WHO TENDS TO ABOUT 20 STALLED SHOW HORSES AM HAVING EXTREME DIFFICULTY DOING MY CHORES & TRAINING. I HAVE HAD THE SHOTS, PILLS, STRETCHING, ORTHOTICS, & SUCH & AM PRESENTLY CONSIDERING ESWT -- BUT, PRESENTLY, I TOO HAVE A GOOD DEAL OF BURNING - MORE THAN THE PF. PAIN THAT I PREVIOUSLY HAVE BEEN SUFFERING WITH -- I AM WONDERING IF B12 COULD BE MY TICKET TO HEALTH....I SHALL TRY IT IMMEDIATELY - BY GOING TO THE STORE TONIGHT! BUT, IN THE MEANTIME, FILL ME IN ON YOUR DETAILS! HOW LONG BEFORE IT KICKS INTO EFFECT? THANKS - & BY THE WAY, WHAT KIND OF FARMER ARE YOU? COWS, CHICKENS, HORSES, CROPS, OR WHAT?

Re: isn't that one of our bombers? :-)

elliott on 11/06/01 at 16:04 (064250)

I have another question: What's the diff between B12 and B6? For my TTS tingling, besides neurontin, it was vitamin B6 I was told to try.

Re: isn't that one of our bombers? :-)

bombers and B vitamins on 11/06/01 at 21:02 (064273)

The B complex of vitamins are a related group of water soluble vitamins.
B1, also known as Thiamine, B2 or Riboflavin, B6 or Pyridoxine, B12, Niacin, Inositol are commonly accepted members of the B family.
The B1 bomber is the first swing wing or variable geometry supersonic heavy bombers--the wings are moveable to change the aerodynamics. The B2 is the stealth bomber.

Vitamin B12 deficiencies lead to peripheral neuropathy, the symptoms of which can mimic diabetic neuropathy or occasionally TTS. Pyridoxine or B6 had been recommended for symptoms of diabetic neuropathy with minimal results.
Ed

Re: So B1 (bomber) + B2 (bomber) = vitamin B12 ?

elliott on 11/06/01 at 23:02 (064285)

My orthopedist even wrote a paper in which he suggested giving B6 a try. (Does two B6 tablets equal one B12? :-)) Admits, though, that hard studies as to efficacy are lacking, but recommends a dose of 50 mg two or three times daily as safe. He then adds, scarily, 'Higher doses may actually cause peripheral neuropathy.' Ever heard that? Is that true with B12 as well? What is the recommended dose of B12?

Re: So B1 (bomber) + B2 (bomber) = vitamin B12 ?

wendyn on 11/07/01 at 23:00 (064371)

From the reading I have done:

You CAN take too much B6 - taken in high doses it can actually cause neuropathy.

There is no known upper safe limit to B12. Most multivitamins contain about 2 or 3 mcg (micrograms). A 'Stress tab' usually has around 50 mcg of B12. I currently take 1 250 mcg or sometimes 2 250 mcg per day. Ideally I should probably be taking more.

A shot of B12 has well over 1000 mcg (from what I recall).

The problem is that some people do not absorb B12 well, and a lot of it is destroyed in the digestive process (this is why many people take injections or the tables under the tongue). Eating calves liver will also give you a massive dose of B12.

In addition, you need other B vitamins to properly absorb the B12.

Taking folic acid without B12 can actually mask a serious B12 deficiency. If you are concerned about your B12 levels - have them tested by your doctor.

Very low B12 will eventually cause pernicious (sp?) anemia - back in the 1930's or there abouts, and before, it used to kill a lot of old people. People sometimes lose their ability to absorb B12 as they age. Untreated, dangeriously low B12 will eventually cause serious neurological damage and then death.

In a normal healthy non-vegetarian, a true B12 deficiency isn't very common. Your body doesn't use very much of it - and vegetarians can take years to develop a deficiency because their body has enough stored up. I was found to be quite low in it - but I have no idea why.

I also ready somewhere that nitrous oxide gas (happy gas) can deplete the stores of B12.

Sometimes I can't remember where I read this stuff - so take it with a grain of salt.

I have read too much about B12. But I still think it helped me a lot.

Re: wow! sounds like you really know your B12

elliott on 11/08/01 at 13:30 (064414)

Thanks.

Two more questions:

1. Are you saying that a B6 deficiency is more likely than a B12 deficiency?

2. You say that for a normal healthy non-vegetarian, a B12 deficiency is not common. Well, what about for those who already have TTS?

Re: wow! sounds like you really know your B12

wendyn on 11/08/01 at 14:18 (064418)

Elliott, I'm not sure if a B6 deficiency would be more common than a B12 deficiency. But from what I understand - it's supposed to be easy to get lots of B12 from a normal healthy diet. Someone who doesn't eat any animal products at all may have a tough time getting enough B12 - but your body isn't supposed to require much either.

On the other hand, we all know that it is difficult for a lot of people to get enough calcium in their diet. Folic acid deficency also seems to a concern, as well as low iron in some women.

Could B12 have a healing or theraputic effect on damaged nerves?
Could the body 'use up' more B12 trying to heal damaged nerves?
Has medicine so far underestimated how much we need, what in fact is a deficiency - and how beneficial B12 could be?

I have more questions than I do answers.

From what I've read though, being tested for low B12 is a good idea if you're having burning, tingling pain etc. Even if the results are normal, it's probably not a bad idea to start taking a multivitam, or b-complex plus some extra B12.

Re: So B1 (bomber) + B2 (bomber) = vitamin B12 ?

Ed Davis, DPM on 11/08/01 at 15:18 (064427)

I am getting away a bit from my field, but it is impossible to overdose or take a toxic dose of the B vitamins, to the best of my knowledge. There is some controversy over 'recommended' doses but the official word is the 'RDA' which stands for the 'recommended daily allowance' and can generally be found printed on all vitamin labels. I have never heard of high doses of B6 nor B12 causing peripheral neuropathy.
Ed

Re: vitamin B12 deficiency

Ed Davis, DPM on 11/08/01 at 15:25 (064429)

One reason for B12 deficiency is not a lack of B12 in the diet but due to difficulty with absorbtion of B12. The stomach secretes a substance known as intrinsic factor which is necessary for B12 absorbtion. Individuals with a lack of intrinsic factor often take B12 by injection.

H2 inhibitors such as Tagamet, that is, the medications used to block excess stomach acid secretion can also reduce the secretion of intrinsic factor.
Ed

Re: vitamin B12 deficiency

B12 and neuromas on 11/08/01 at 15:29 (064430)

Neuromas are painful benign enlarged nerve growths that are sometimes treated via cortisone injections. I cannot explain why, but when B12 is added to the cortisone injection, the results are better. The B12 is having some unexplained beneficial effect on the nerve.

I have, on occasion, when treating TTS conservatively with steroid and Wydase injections, added B12 to the mix and have gotten better results. Again, I do not know why and have no scientific proof.
Ed

Re: So B1 (bomber) + B2 (bomber) = vitamin B12 ?

wendyn on 11/08/01 at 17:41 (064447)

Dr Ed - I know that the B vitamins are supposed to be safe at high levels - but I'm certain that I've found fairly reliable references saying that too much B6 can actually cause neuropathy.

What would be the best way to prove or disprove this idea?

Is there a fairly reliable up to date reference we could check?

Re: Info on B6

wendyn on 11/08/01 at 17:47 (064449)

Links:

http://www.cc.nih.gov/ccc/supplements/vitb6.html#risk
Vitamin B6 and carpal tunnel syndrome
Vitamin B6 was first recommended for carpal tunnel syndrome almost 30 years ago (21). Several popular books still recommend taking 100 to 200 milligrams (mg) of vitamin B6 daily to treat carpal tunnel syndrome, even though scientific studies do not indicate it is effective. Anyone taking large doses of vitamin B6 supplements for carpal tunnel syndrome needs to be aware that the Institute of Medicine recently established an upper tolerable limit of 100 mg per day for adults (12). There are documented cases in the literature of neuropathy caused by excessive vitamin B6 taken for treatment of carpal tunnel syndrome (22).

What is the health risk of too much vitamin B6 ?

Too much vitamin B6 can result in nerve damage to the arms and legs. This neuropathy is usually related to high intake of vitamin B6 from supplements, (28) and is reversible when supplementation is stopped. According to the Institute of Medicine, 'Several reports show sensory neuropathy at doses lower than 500 mg per day' (12). As previously mentioned, the Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine has established an upper tolerable intake level (UL) for vitamin B6 of 100 mg per day for all adults (12). 'As intake increases above the UL, the risk of adverse effects increases (12).'

Re: More on B6

wendyn on 11/08/01 at 18:00 (064450)

http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section1/chapter3/3n.htm

The ingestion of megadoses (2 to 6 g/day for 2 to 40 mo) of pyridoxine, mistakenly taken for premenstrual tension, may cause progressive sensory ataxia and profound lower limb impairment of position and vibration sense. Senses of touch, temperature, and pain are less affected. The motor and central nervous systems are unimpaired. Recovery is slow and, in some patients, is only partial after pyridoxine ingestion is stopped.

http://news6.thdo.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/medical_notes/newsid_91000/91597.stm

How much is too much?

Scientific studies have shown that B6 can be dangerous in very high doses. One study suggested that long term use of doses of 500 times the recommended daily level may cause damage to the nervous system. A second study found adverse effects in humans from ingesting a dose as low as 50mg a day, although there are question marks over the methods used in this investigation. The government plans to limit the sale of over-the-counter B6 to 10mg doses, with a doctor's prescription needed for larger amounts.

http://www.sbwise.com/ingredients/vitamin_b6.htm

SAFETY ISSUES

Vitamin B6 may produce some signs of toxicity if taken in large doses for long periods of time. Doses greater than 2,000 milligrams per day can produce symptoms of nerve toxicity (tingling sensations in the feet, loss of muscle coordination, and degeneration of nerve tissue) in some individuals. Dosages greater than 500 milligrams daily can be toxic if taken daily for many months or years (Murray, 1996). The neurotoxicity is believed to be due to exceeding the liver's ability to phosphorylate vitamin B6 to the active coenzyme, pyridoxal phosphate. The resulting high vitamin b serum levels could be directly neurotoxic or may compete for binding sites with pyridoxal phosphate resulting in a relative deficiency of the active metabolite (Werbach, 1993; Murray, 1996).

People taking levadopa for Parkinson's disease should consult a physician before taking vitamin B6 because the vitamin interferes with the absorption of the drug (Kirschmann, 1996).

Re: Info on B6

elliott on 11/09/01 at 08:32 (064482)

Your first source gives references in parenthetical numbers, but I can't seem to find the references in that article. Are they there somewhere?

Re: Info on B6

wendyn on 11/09/01 at 09:50 (064492)

Did you go to the links? Did they work?

Re: vitamins vs. drugs

Ed Davis, DPM on 11/09/01 at 15:40 (064530)

They are looking at very high doses. I din not have time to go through all of the details.

I remember a very important thing that my biochemistry professor in school once said:

'Vitamins, when taken in doses above their normal therapeutic ranges are no longer vitamins, they are drugs.'

Vitamins are co-factors or co-enzymes used to catalyze chemical reactions in the body. Such substances generally perform their functions at fairly low levels.
Ed

Re: vitamins vs. drugs

wendyn on 11/10/01 at 09:19 (064592)

I agree - people need to be careful about what they take - and how much of it.

The bottom line is that there seems to be an abundance of information out there that despite the fact the B6 is water soluable, it is possible to take too much. I pulled off several links supporting that theory in just a matter of minutes.

If in doubt - I would think it wise to check with phamacist before starting to take additional B6 supplements. I only take what comes in a multivitamin - so I figure I'm pretty safe.

Re: vitamins vs. drugs

Scott R on 11/10/01 at 09:55 (064597)

No one ever dies from a vitamin overdose. something like 200,000 people die each year from doctor-perscribed drugs, usually when taken as directed. naturally-occuring compounds fall into a limited set of shapes because their designs are based on the limited abilities of DNA. Synthetic compounds have a much wider range of possible shapes. We have evolved only to tolerate the DNA-derived shapes. That's why synthetic compounds are so dangerous. People too often make the mistake of taking vitamin 'warnings' as seriously as the warnings for the synthetic compounds. They both come in pill form, but they are not the same. There is a casecase reported where someone felt tingling at 500 mg/day. At about 5,000 mg/day for over a year, severe effects were noticed in some people. It took 2 years before they were almost back to normal. There are no reports of death or acute toxicity.

Re: vitamins vs. drugs

Barbara TX on 11/10/01 at 10:43 (064604)

Even though adults can tolerate large amts of vitamins, pregnant women (if I remember correctly) should make sure that they don't get too much Vitamin A because it can cause serious complications, and a young child can die if they ingest too much iron - thus the warnings on even kiddie vitamins. B.