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ossatron vs. orbasone/ chronic pain

Posted by Tony B. on 11/20/01 at 10:21 (064992)

1. If you look at averages (click on the appropriate machine to get the averages for the machine), it looks like the orbasone is considerably better.
AB CA PB CP S
Ossatron 4.6 4.7 7.8 4.2 6.8
Orbasone 4.5 7.5 8.4 3.3 8.0

The reason I say considerably better is that the CA for orbasone is 7.5, while the CA for ossatron is 4.7 (that is, identical to the activity before the operation). This says there was no change in the life style, but a about half the pain. Orbasone stats, by contrast, show a significant increase in activity (to 7.5) and an even lower pain level.
Perhaps this is an abberation due to too little data? Or perhaps there is another interpretation of this? The procedure for both apparently either works spectacularly or almost not at all. If you look at the number of '1's for CP (that is, for those patients that respon, perhaps the results are a littel more encouraging? Comments?

2. As a 10-year chronic pain sufferer, I must say that what I would like to see is ZERO for current pain. I don't see any zeros. I have a condition does not exhibit all the classic PF symptoms. Pain builds up slowly after about 10 minutes -- and then I am pretty much in pain all day long. One podiatrist has suggested nerve entrapment -- but he also said that tyring ESWT could be tried anyway, since the downside risk is small.
I would like to hear from patient or any doctor who has experience with the 'slow build up' of pain type of PF, and has used ESWT as a treatment.
(E.g., I know that Scott, who runs this site, had the 'slow build up', dull pain, type. He used ESWT, but is also, apparently, not entirely free of symptoms.)

Re: ossatron vs. orbasone/ chronic pain

BrianJ on 11/20/01 at 11:21 (064995)

Tony --

I'm 38 years old, five-ten and 150 lbs. For four years now, I've had PF pain in both feet which radiates up through my ankles and lower legs. I've never had that sharp 'first step in the morning' pain; rather, my feet are stiff in the morning and get REALLY painful if I stand in one place (especially on a hard surface) for more than a minute. Pain gets worse as the day goes on. I had ESWT (Ossatron), but it didn't seem to help. I'm now looking into possible neurological issues such as entrapment or peripheral neuropathy.

Are my symptoms similar to yours?

Re: ossatron vs. orbasone/ chronic pain

john a on 11/20/01 at 11:57 (064997)

Your symptoms are similar to mine: I'm also 38, 140 lbs, 9' 9.5'. PF for 2.5 years. Worse in right. No first step pain. My standing limit is about 3 minutes before I really want to sit down. If I'm able to walk a little, I can be on my feet for about 10 minutes, which is just long enough to race in and out of the grocery store at 7:30 am when there are no lines. I can't even tolerate shoes on my feet for very long either, even when just sitting, which makes me suspect some nerve compression is going on. My feet do feel best in the morning and worst at the end of the day, no doubt due to walking on them over the course of the day. I had an orbasone treatment on the right heel with Dr. Z. in NJ two weeks ago. Still not much difference. Maybe a little better now, but it's tough to say.

Re: ossatron vs. orbasone/ chronic pain

Tony B. on 11/20/01 at 12:01 (064998)

My pain does not radiate upward. It is a continuous pain right on the bottom of the heel, slightly more to the outside (lateral) edge. The additional pain laterally was caused by a failed endoscopic PF release operation. I can stand for more than a minute, perhaps 10, but I know that 'this is not good' as soon I try to walk on a hard surface. It looks to others like I am 'trying to walk over a bed of broken glass' when I try to walk barefoot on a hard floor.
The radiating (referred) pain, is, I think, ususally symptomatic of a nerve condidtion. My feet are not stiff in the morning. Rather, they feel normal and without pain. I have execellent flexibility in both feet.
Sorry to hear about your problem. I sounds different than mine.

Re: ossatron vs. orbasone/ chronic pain

Tony B. on 11/20/01 at 12:10 (064999)

This sounds similar. Perhaps more severe. I have to walk quickly through the store, and hope that I do not have to wait at check out. I generally just press on though -- sometimes staying on my feet for 45 minutes or more at a time. Naturally, it takes all night to recover. And the next day is just the same all over again. I also am not heavy - about 148.
I am also better without shoes. BUT - I also respond possitivly to tape, ice, gentle massage, and orthotics.

Re: ossatron vs. orbasone/ chronic pain

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/20/01 at 12:20 (065000)

Hi,

I have many patients at the pain level zero. That takes 12 weeks or more to achieve. So long as there is discrete pain on palpation of the plantar fascia at the insertion then ESWT is a consideration. It you would like additional information on orbasone ESWT feel free to e-mail me at (email removed) and I will see that you receive information.

Re: ossatron vs. orbasone/ chronic pain

Nicole K. on 11/20/01 at 16:06 (065010)

I think I am a hybrid of the two of you here. I, too have had a failed Endoscopic PF operation. I also, unfortunately, had a second surgery where they removed scar tissue, and supposedly released a trapped nerve. I would say my pain is different than the PF pain I first experienced. All of this has been going on for 5 yrs. I am not overweight, like you. My pain is in the middle of my bottom left heel, more towards the outside edge, and when I press on that spot, it's extremely tender... In the morning I am stiff, but I would not say my pain gets better or worse in the am. My pain gets noticeably worse after exercise and standing in one place. Occasionally I work as a bartender and I have noticed the day after (and after work) I am in noticeably more pain. My pain doesn't seem to get any better after massage or ice, although they both feel good, as does stretching.

I have contacted the place in my area, (LA) that does ESWT. I spoke with the owner and he said he does think that ESWT would be the only thing that would help me. My Podiatrist wants me to go through a third surgery - which I hav made up my mind that I am not going to do - two didn't help, why would a third? The price of it is $1900 for 3 treatments. Is this in line with everyone else? I seem to remember reading about that place in Canada - that they do 8 treatments for $1500. How many treatments does it take to get results? Is there a difference between machines?

Also, the owner of that place told me that it would not be covered by my insurance unless it was a worker's comp thing. Has anyone gotten their insurance to pay for this outside of worker's comp? I don't make much money and almost $2000 is quite a gamble for me. I'm wondering if I could appeal to my insurance. I do think the price of this would be the same as, or less than surgery. I seem to remember both of my surgeries being in the neighborhood of $2000 each.

Also, I tried e-mailing you Dr.Z the other day when you replied to my post and the mail was returned to me. Could you e-mail me with some info? (email removed)
Thanks.

Re: ossatron vs. orbasone/ chronic pain

BrianJ on 11/20/01 at 11:21 (064995)

Tony --

I'm 38 years old, five-ten and 150 lbs. For four years now, I've had PF pain in both feet which radiates up through my ankles and lower legs. I've never had that sharp 'first step in the morning' pain; rather, my feet are stiff in the morning and get REALLY painful if I stand in one place (especially on a hard surface) for more than a minute. Pain gets worse as the day goes on. I had ESWT (Ossatron), but it didn't seem to help. I'm now looking into possible neurological issues such as entrapment or peripheral neuropathy.

Are my symptoms similar to yours?

Re: ossatron vs. orbasone/ chronic pain

john a on 11/20/01 at 11:57 (064997)

Your symptoms are similar to mine: I'm also 38, 140 lbs, 9' 9.5'. PF for 2.5 years. Worse in right. No first step pain. My standing limit is about 3 minutes before I really want to sit down. If I'm able to walk a little, I can be on my feet for about 10 minutes, which is just long enough to race in and out of the grocery store at 7:30 am when there are no lines. I can't even tolerate shoes on my feet for very long either, even when just sitting, which makes me suspect some nerve compression is going on. My feet do feel best in the morning and worst at the end of the day, no doubt due to walking on them over the course of the day. I had an orbasone treatment on the right heel with Dr. Z. in NJ two weeks ago. Still not much difference. Maybe a little better now, but it's tough to say.

Re: ossatron vs. orbasone/ chronic pain

Tony B. on 11/20/01 at 12:01 (064998)

My pain does not radiate upward. It is a continuous pain right on the bottom of the heel, slightly more to the outside (lateral) edge. The additional pain laterally was caused by a failed endoscopic PF release operation. I can stand for more than a minute, perhaps 10, but I know that 'this is not good' as soon I try to walk on a hard surface. It looks to others like I am 'trying to walk over a bed of broken glass' when I try to walk barefoot on a hard floor.
The radiating (referred) pain, is, I think, ususally symptomatic of a nerve condidtion. My feet are not stiff in the morning. Rather, they feel normal and without pain. I have execellent flexibility in both feet.
Sorry to hear about your problem. I sounds different than mine.

Re: ossatron vs. orbasone/ chronic pain

Tony B. on 11/20/01 at 12:10 (064999)

This sounds similar. Perhaps more severe. I have to walk quickly through the store, and hope that I do not have to wait at check out. I generally just press on though -- sometimes staying on my feet for 45 minutes or more at a time. Naturally, it takes all night to recover. And the next day is just the same all over again. I also am not heavy - about 148.
I am also better without shoes. BUT - I also respond possitivly to tape, ice, gentle massage, and orthotics.

Re: ossatron vs. orbasone/ chronic pain

Dr. Zuckerman on 11/20/01 at 12:20 (065000)

Hi,

I have many patients at the pain level zero. That takes 12 weeks or more to achieve. So long as there is discrete pain on palpation of the plantar fascia at the insertion then ESWT is a consideration. It you would like additional information on orbasone ESWT feel free to e-mail me at (email removed) and I will see that you receive information.

Re: ossatron vs. orbasone/ chronic pain

Nicole K. on 11/20/01 at 16:06 (065010)

I think I am a hybrid of the two of you here. I, too have had a failed Endoscopic PF operation. I also, unfortunately, had a second surgery where they removed scar tissue, and supposedly released a trapped nerve. I would say my pain is different than the PF pain I first experienced. All of this has been going on for 5 yrs. I am not overweight, like you. My pain is in the middle of my bottom left heel, more towards the outside edge, and when I press on that spot, it's extremely tender... In the morning I am stiff, but I would not say my pain gets better or worse in the am. My pain gets noticeably worse after exercise and standing in one place. Occasionally I work as a bartender and I have noticed the day after (and after work) I am in noticeably more pain. My pain doesn't seem to get any better after massage or ice, although they both feel good, as does stretching.

I have contacted the place in my area, (LA) that does ESWT. I spoke with the owner and he said he does think that ESWT would be the only thing that would help me. My Podiatrist wants me to go through a third surgery - which I hav made up my mind that I am not going to do - two didn't help, why would a third? The price of it is $1900 for 3 treatments. Is this in line with everyone else? I seem to remember reading about that place in Canada - that they do 8 treatments for $1500. How many treatments does it take to get results? Is there a difference between machines?

Also, the owner of that place told me that it would not be covered by my insurance unless it was a worker's comp thing. Has anyone gotten their insurance to pay for this outside of worker's comp? I don't make much money and almost $2000 is quite a gamble for me. I'm wondering if I could appeal to my insurance. I do think the price of this would be the same as, or less than surgery. I seem to remember both of my surgeries being in the neighborhood of $2000 each.

Also, I tried e-mailing you Dr.Z the other day when you replied to my post and the mail was returned to me. Could you e-mail me with some info? (email removed)
Thanks.