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How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Posted by Mahatmelissama on 1/04/02 at 19:29 (068753)

I am just curious how 'bad' my pain is. I am FINALLY going to see a pod on Jan. 9th (after waiting for a month and a half for an
appt on Jan. 2nd, which the recept had to cancel since the pod was not in that day and reschedule...argggh).

My feet hurt after I stand about 5-10 minutes on my feet like about a '5' in the pain scale
They go up to a 7 after 10 minutes and 8 or 9 after 20 minutes.

I can do the dishes, take a shower without much pain...but shopping in the store is unbearable if I don't move
around a lot (it doesn't hurt while I am walking but acts up later if I walk too much).

I try to wear shoes around the house but i don't in the shower since my feet don't hurt then.

Do most PF use a stool or chair in the shower? I am wondering if I am hurting my feet worse by not...

Re: How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Carole C on 1/04/02 at 19:46 (068755)

Oh gosh, even now if I didn't use a shower stool I'd be in agony. I would really really really recommend one to everybody with PF.

Although, I must admit that the only feet I know anything about are mine! I don't really know what helps other people. But I just couldn't heal without a shower stool, in my opinion. It has helped so much. Even just a few second of bare feet in shower messes up my feet and sets me back maybe a week or so.

I would say that you and I are at about the same level of pain right now, but for me this is a BIG improvement over where I was before.

Carole C

Re: How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Ed Davis, DPM on 1/04/02 at 21:24 (068766)

It sort of tough to try to rank you based on the chronicity of your problem. I think that your scenario is fairly common---a lot of the plantar fasciitis patients I see have been trying to deal with it for a number of months and occasionally years. It can take a little bit more effort and time to deal with pain once it becomes chronic, nevertheless, the vast majority of plantar fasciitis sufferers are eventually cured.

Did you get any relief from the Alznner devices?

Best of luck with treatment.
Ed

Re: shower stool experiment

Carole C on 1/05/02 at 09:31 (068797)

OK, well I sure tried a dangerous experiment this morning after reading your post! I took my sitting down shower, washed my hair and everything sitting down with my shower massager on the long hose, and then stood up barefoot for just about ten seconds at the end of the shower just to finish! What a glorious feeling. I have been terrified of doing this because it used to really wreck my feet.

So far I don't think it hurt anything at all! My feet still feel great. I didn't know that I would have that result. Maybe I was very lucky or maybe my healing has gone far enough to allow this occasionally. Anyway, maybe you don't need a shower stool; I don't know. I guess the best thing is to pay close attention to your feet and try to figure out if showers are hurting you or not. I still think that those suffering a level 8-10 pain on a scale of 1-10, should get a shower stool.

Carole C

Re: How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Dr. David S. Wander on 1/05/02 at 17:01 (068856)

It is very interesting to note that I've had many patients over the years tell me that the had the most pain when showering. Even if they didn't have pain walking around the house barefoot, taking a shower often seemed to aggravate or make symptoms recur. After thinking about this briefly, I believe I have a rather simple explanation. Most showers are either a stall shower, with a center drain or a bathtub/shower combination with a drain at the 'low' end of the tub. The showers with a drain in the center have the base of the shower angled from all 4 sides toward to drain to allow the water to drain. (I hope you can picture this!). Therefore, when you are standing in the shower, you are usually straddling the drain, with the floor angled toward the drain. Therefore your feet are pronating more than usual while standing there, which can certainly aggravate the plantar fascia. In a tub/shower, the drain is usually below the showerhead, in the low end of the tub. Therefore, while you are showering your heels are in the low end of the tub, stretching your Achilles and also possibly stretching an already inflammed plantar fascia. I hope that this actually makes sense and no one thinks I've gone over the deep end!

Re: How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Carole C on 1/05/02 at 17:39 (068859)

Yes, it does make sense to me as a somewhat naive new PF sufferer. I am doing pretty well lately and managed to stand for a few seconds in the shower today, and it seemed to work out best to stand sideways in the tub-shower and to keep taking steps and moving rather than letting my arches just sink down to the ceramic. Maybe what you are saying explains that. Also since the shower is wet and slick, the bottoms of the feet don't have any friction to hold them in place rather than sliding so the arch sinks down. Just a guess!

Carole C

Re: Re:showering with arch supporting sandals?

Ellen on 1/06/02 at 15:08 (068974)

I'm wondering if anyone has tried showering with those Teva water sandals or anything like them, with an arch support in the sole. Some of the Tevas are flat soled and others have more arch support. Merrills and other brands of such sandals are also available and I am curious to know if such things could make showering more comfortable. I don't (yet) have a problem with sore feet in the shower, but I may use my Merrills as preventive medicine.
Just a thought.
Ellen

Re: Re:showering with arch supporting sandals?

Carole C on 1/06/02 at 16:54 (068986)

I have heard other people here say that waterproof arch supporting sandals, like the waterproof Birkenstocks for example, work well in the shower.

I'd be cautious to make sure that any such sandals are not slick when wet. Conventional cheap flat flipflops can be seriously slippery on a slick wet surface. Back in 1974 I knocked myself unconscious wearing conventional cheap flip-flops in my lab, when a tank of seawater spilled and I ran to stem the flow... my feet were up over my head and I was falling the last I remember! When I moved to the south the next year, I thought it was pretty hilarious that some southerners call them shower shoes rather than flip flops or zoriis. Shower? RIGHT.

When I saw my pedorthist last month, I asked her about waterproof Birkenstocks. She was very firm that she preferred me to get a shower stool. Maybe it's because I'm large, old, and clumsy, and at the time could not stand for too long. But anyway, she's the boss so I trotted right out and bought one. It has really helped, though I'm trying to carefully graduate from it to taking 'real showers' now. Although it is a lot better than sponge baths, I refuse to spend the rest of my life using a shower stool!

Carole C

Re: How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Mahatmelissama on 1/07/02 at 12:38 (069061)

Ed Davis, DPM...

I should have just taken my $215.00 and held up a torch ... or maybe taken 215 one dollar bills and FLUSHED THEM DOWN THE COMMODE!!! No...I'm not bitter, no not ONE BIT!!! Argggh!

They HURT my feet, I could not wear them for very long. I am still holding onto them in hopes that someday I can use them. Maybe
someday I will donate them to someone.

I wasted my money, I am a sucker...but then there is one born every minute so I am not alone.

Re: How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Mahatmelissama on 1/07/02 at 12:41 (069062)

Hmmm...I use a soft rubber mat that feels like I am on 'bubbles'. This took away all my pain in the shower since I feel secure, not sliding. Makes a BIG difference...I highly recommend this to somebody who wants to try standing. I will not shower without it since I hate feeling the whole time like I am going to slip (which I did once time and had to hold onto the sides when my foot cramped up).

Re: My last post is messed up!!!

Mahatmelissama on 1/07/02 at 12:44 (069065)

Weird, when you click on my last post...it goes to somebody else's posts!

I talked about my shower mat...that is the way to go...it makes your feet feel secure
and the one I have feels like there are 'bubbles under it'.

Re: fix

Scott R on 1/07/02 at 12:46 (069067)

an S for smile inside less than and greater than means strikethrough.

Re: another possibility

elliott on 1/07/02 at 13:38 (069071)

The shower is the one time people are standing still in the same or almost same position for quite some time. Maybe it's just the standing still.

Of course, there should be an easy way to see which is the culprit. Let that person stand barefoot on a level floor for 10 or 15 minutes. Also, if it's the slanted shower floor, then presumably there should be no such pain if a shower is taken in a level bathtub-equipped shower. Curious to know which it is.

---

Re: My last post is messed up!!!

Carole C on 1/07/02 at 16:33 (069108)

What a great idea! Thanks, Mahatmelissama! :)

Carole C

Re: How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Ed Davis, DPM on 1/11/02 at 20:15 (069698)

I believe that they do offer at least a partial refund.
Ed

Re: How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Ed Davis, DPM on 1/11/02 at 20:19 (069699)

PS You may want to post your opinion on the Alznner board. I really don't like the tone of a lot of the posts there-- a lot of a sarcasm and some dishonesty although your honest opinion would be a valued addition.

Have you been to the podiatrist appointment yet?
Ed

Re: How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Mahatmelissama on 1/14/02 at 15:53 (069970)

Hi Ed,

That board is rather dead so I will refrain from voicing my opinion on it. I am just going to hang onto them...one day they may be comfortable for me or somebody will receive them (maybe I'll give them away in the webpage).

I saw the Pod on the 9th. She was very nice. My X-Rays she said 'looked very good.' I have no heelspurs or any other abnormalities. She gave me some pamplets about PF and told me to try OTC, ice and stetching...then come back in 6 weeks. She said basically in effect we would try things...orthopaedics...physical therapy...cortisone shot...and surgery if that needed be. She answered all my questions.

I am having a ped make me some SOFT orthopaedics. That ped btw is on Richard's search thing for my area!

I will let you know how that goes. I tend to over-ract on everything and try everything under the sun...the saleswoman in me...it's numbers game...something out of everything has got to work!

Re: How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Carole C on 1/04/02 at 19:46 (068755)

Oh gosh, even now if I didn't use a shower stool I'd be in agony. I would really really really recommend one to everybody with PF.

Although, I must admit that the only feet I know anything about are mine! I don't really know what helps other people. But I just couldn't heal without a shower stool, in my opinion. It has helped so much. Even just a few second of bare feet in shower messes up my feet and sets me back maybe a week or so.

I would say that you and I are at about the same level of pain right now, but for me this is a BIG improvement over where I was before.

Carole C

Re: How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Ed Davis, DPM on 1/04/02 at 21:24 (068766)

It sort of tough to try to rank you based on the chronicity of your problem. I think that your scenario is fairly common---a lot of the plantar fasciitis patients I see have been trying to deal with it for a number of months and occasionally years. It can take a little bit more effort and time to deal with pain once it becomes chronic, nevertheless, the vast majority of plantar fasciitis sufferers are eventually cured.

Did you get any relief from the Alznner devices?

Best of luck with treatment.
Ed

Re: shower stool experiment

Carole C on 1/05/02 at 09:31 (068797)

OK, well I sure tried a dangerous experiment this morning after reading your post! I took my sitting down shower, washed my hair and everything sitting down with my shower massager on the long hose, and then stood up barefoot for just about ten seconds at the end of the shower just to finish! What a glorious feeling. I have been terrified of doing this because it used to really wreck my feet.

So far I don't think it hurt anything at all! My feet still feel great. I didn't know that I would have that result. Maybe I was very lucky or maybe my healing has gone far enough to allow this occasionally. Anyway, maybe you don't need a shower stool; I don't know. I guess the best thing is to pay close attention to your feet and try to figure out if showers are hurting you or not. I still think that those suffering a level 8-10 pain on a scale of 1-10, should get a shower stool.

Carole C

Re: How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Dr. David S. Wander on 1/05/02 at 17:01 (068856)

It is very interesting to note that I've had many patients over the years tell me that the had the most pain when showering. Even if they didn't have pain walking around the house barefoot, taking a shower often seemed to aggravate or make symptoms recur. After thinking about this briefly, I believe I have a rather simple explanation. Most showers are either a stall shower, with a center drain or a bathtub/shower combination with a drain at the 'low' end of the tub. The showers with a drain in the center have the base of the shower angled from all 4 sides toward to drain to allow the water to drain. (I hope you can picture this!). Therefore, when you are standing in the shower, you are usually straddling the drain, with the floor angled toward the drain. Therefore your feet are pronating more than usual while standing there, which can certainly aggravate the plantar fascia. In a tub/shower, the drain is usually below the showerhead, in the low end of the tub. Therefore, while you are showering your heels are in the low end of the tub, stretching your Achilles and also possibly stretching an already inflammed plantar fascia. I hope that this actually makes sense and no one thinks I've gone over the deep end!

Re: How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Carole C on 1/05/02 at 17:39 (068859)

Yes, it does make sense to me as a somewhat naive new PF sufferer. I am doing pretty well lately and managed to stand for a few seconds in the shower today, and it seemed to work out best to stand sideways in the tub-shower and to keep taking steps and moving rather than letting my arches just sink down to the ceramic. Maybe what you are saying explains that. Also since the shower is wet and slick, the bottoms of the feet don't have any friction to hold them in place rather than sliding so the arch sinks down. Just a guess!

Carole C

Re: Re:showering with arch supporting sandals?

Ellen on 1/06/02 at 15:08 (068974)

I'm wondering if anyone has tried showering with those Teva water sandals or anything like them, with an arch support in the sole. Some of the Tevas are flat soled and others have more arch support. Merrills and other brands of such sandals are also available and I am curious to know if such things could make showering more comfortable. I don't (yet) have a problem with sore feet in the shower, but I may use my Merrills as preventive medicine.
Just a thought.
Ellen

Re: Re:showering with arch supporting sandals?

Carole C on 1/06/02 at 16:54 (068986)

I have heard other people here say that waterproof arch supporting sandals, like the waterproof Birkenstocks for example, work well in the shower.

I'd be cautious to make sure that any such sandals are not slick when wet. Conventional cheap flat flipflops can be seriously slippery on a slick wet surface. Back in 1974 I knocked myself unconscious wearing conventional cheap flip-flops in my lab, when a tank of seawater spilled and I ran to stem the flow... my feet were up over my head and I was falling the last I remember! When I moved to the south the next year, I thought it was pretty hilarious that some southerners call them shower shoes rather than flip flops or zoriis. Shower? RIGHT.

When I saw my pedorthist last month, I asked her about waterproof Birkenstocks. She was very firm that she preferred me to get a shower stool. Maybe it's because I'm large, old, and clumsy, and at the time could not stand for too long. But anyway, she's the boss so I trotted right out and bought one. It has really helped, though I'm trying to carefully graduate from it to taking 'real showers' now. Although it is a lot better than sponge baths, I refuse to spend the rest of my life using a shower stool!

Carole C

Re: How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Mahatmelissama on 1/07/02 at 12:38 (069061)

Ed Davis, DPM...

I should have just taken my $215.00 and held up a torch ... or maybe taken 215 one dollar bills and FLUSHED THEM DOWN THE COMMODE!!! No...I'm not bitter, no not ONE BIT!!! Argggh!

They HURT my feet, I could not wear them for very long. I am still holding onto them in hopes that someday I can use them. Maybe
someday I will donate them to someone.

I wasted my money, I am a sucker...but then there is one born every minute so I am not alone.

Re: How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Mahatmelissama on 1/07/02 at 12:41 (069062)

Hmmm...I use a soft rubber mat that feels like I am on 'bubbles'. This took away all my pain in the shower since I feel secure, not sliding. Makes a BIG difference...I highly recommend this to somebody who wants to try standing. I will not shower without it since I hate feeling the whole time like I am going to slip (which I did once time and had to hold onto the sides when my foot cramped up).

Re: My last post is messed up!!!

Mahatmelissama on 1/07/02 at 12:44 (069065)

Weird, when you click on my last post...it goes to somebody else's posts!

I talked about my shower mat...that is the way to go...it makes your feet feel secure
and the one I have feels like there are 'bubbles under it'.

Re: fix

Scott R on 1/07/02 at 12:46 (069067)

an S for smile inside less than and greater than means strikethrough.

Re: another possibility

elliott on 1/07/02 at 13:38 (069071)

The shower is the one time people are standing still in the same or almost same position for quite some time. Maybe it's just the standing still.

Of course, there should be an easy way to see which is the culprit. Let that person stand barefoot on a level floor for 10 or 15 minutes. Also, if it's the slanted shower floor, then presumably there should be no such pain if a shower is taken in a level bathtub-equipped shower. Curious to know which it is.

---

Re: My last post is messed up!!!

Carole C on 1/07/02 at 16:33 (069108)

What a great idea! Thanks, Mahatmelissama! :)

Carole C

Re: How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Ed Davis, DPM on 1/11/02 at 20:15 (069698)

I believe that they do offer at least a partial refund.
Ed

Re: How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Ed Davis, DPM on 1/11/02 at 20:19 (069699)

PS You may want to post your opinion on the Alznner board. I really don't like the tone of a lot of the posts there-- a lot of a sarcasm and some dishonesty although your honest opinion would be a valued addition.

Have you been to the podiatrist appointment yet?
Ed

Re: How "chronic" is my PF compared to the "average" PF sufferer?

Mahatmelissama on 1/14/02 at 15:53 (069970)

Hi Ed,

That board is rather dead so I will refrain from voicing my opinion on it. I am just going to hang onto them...one day they may be comfortable for me or somebody will receive them (maybe I'll give them away in the webpage).

I saw the Pod on the 9th. She was very nice. My X-Rays she said 'looked very good.' I have no heelspurs or any other abnormalities. She gave me some pamplets about PF and told me to try OTC, ice and stetching...then come back in 6 weeks. She said basically in effect we would try things...orthopaedics...physical therapy...cortisone shot...and surgery if that needed be. She answered all my questions.

I am having a ped make me some SOFT orthopaedics. That ped btw is on Richard's search thing for my area!

I will let you know how that goes. I tend to over-ract on everything and try everything under the sun...the saleswoman in me...it's numbers game...something out of everything has got to work!