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Injury causing TTS?

Posted by Jane on 1/08/02 at 09:00 (069175)

Hi.
I came across this message board today while searching for information on foot problems. I am a snowboarder and a couple of days ago I was out riding (it was a great
day!). When I came in and took my boots off, my foot was numb and it hurt a little. I jsut thought that it was cold. It is now three days later and the bottem of my foot is still
numb. It;s like pins and needles. When I walk, there is pain just below the inside of my ankle. It I touch the inside of my ankle, it is highly sensitive and shoots pain down
my foot.

I have no idea what to do. I have been taking it easy and am hoping that this will just get better with rest. I was just wondering if this is just a little injury and will get better
in a few days or what.

Thanks

Jane

Re: uh-oh

elliott on 1/08/02 at 09:19 (069183)

Exactly where is the numbness in the bottom of your foot, and exactly where does the pain shoot down? Please be as specific as you can. Any swelling?

It's still too early to panic. You may want to try icing the inner ankle for a while, then maybe taking some warm baths.

Re: uh-oh

Jane on 1/08/02 at 09:22 (069186)

The numbness is from the arch of my foot to my toes....there may be a little swelling jsut under the inside of my ankle. When not moving, it's mostly numb. When I bend my ankle or touch it, it sends a piercing pain right to my toes. Do you have any idea what this is, will rest cure it? Thanks!

Re: need more info

elliott on 1/08/02 at 09:30 (069187)

Which toes? Very important!

If there's swelling, ice it! Five times a day, 15-20 minutes a pop. Maybe swelling goes down, you get better, and we never get to know you (our loss, but a good thing for you).

--

Re: Toes

Jane on 1/08/02 at 10:59 (069195)

My three middle toes. So this will probably go away on it's own?

Re: Toes

elliott on 1/08/02 at 11:15 (069196)

Your toe combination is somewhat unusal but not unheard of. It seems like you could have tarsal tunnel or entrapment of the medial plantar nerve (based on your description, effectively the same thing). There are documented cases where this came from wearing (often new) ski boots. I have one in front of me. That case got better through NSAIDS (ibuprofen and the like), cortisone shots and PT.

Take NSAIDS and ice for the swelling, and if it's not better in a week or so, make an appt to see a doc. Which type of doc is subject to a lot of debate around here. A respected podiatrist is a good start. If it keeps up, get a nerve conduction test.

It's hard for me to say if it will be one of those cases that goes away in a few days, one of those cases that goes away with relatively conservative treatment, or one needing surgery. It's so early, try not to panic, maybe it'll clear up. If not post back and keep us informed.

-----

Re: Elliott

Jane on 1/08/02 at 11:47 (069201)

Thanks a lot for your help! I will definitely let you know how this turns out!

Re: another reason not to panic

alan k on 1/08/02 at 12:26 (069208)

This is really very anecdotal, and an amazing coincidence, but I was just sitting here working at my computer in Birkenstocks without socks and on a cold floor exposed to a cold draft, and when I got up from my chair I got sharp pains right in my tarsal tunnel region on both feet.

I have had tts and pf, and may be slightly vulnerable still. Why I think this is a good sign is that perhaps there is something about cold that effects this region and that maybe at least this part of the cause would presumably not be serious. Of course this is really flimsy evidence.

Elliot is right about ski boots. I suggest you browse the messages on tts to get a sense of how long it can take in some cases to heal tts, and how tricky it can be. That way, while not getting too worried, you will be motivated to avoid snowboarding for a long time to come, and I think it would be crazy to ever use those particular boots ever again no matter how you feel. Throw them out now, I say. Its just not worth it.

Luckily you will probably do some sigificant healing in the next couple weeks and we'll never hear from you again.

best wishes, alan k

Re: another reason not to panic

Monte on 1/08/02 at 13:24 (069220)

alan

can you possibly help me. I am 36 yrs old and have had somewhat mixed symptoms for about a year now. I posted my history but I will do it again.....

Here is my situation. I started get pains in my arches 12 months ago while shopping at the mall. I went to a Podiatrist about 30 days later. He told me that I had PF in both feet and it will get under control over time. Made me orthotics that killed my feet and I never wore them again. I then went to Sports doctor (foot specialist) who said it would go away over time and also sent me for a EMG test. I took it lying down, which I found out is not correct to check all the nerves. I am now under the care of 2 great doctors. I have orthotics that have deep heel cups to control my over pronation and arch support for my arches. They are not hard and not soft. They also run the whole length of the foot. They feel fine. My feet are not flat, but the arch is a bit low when I stand. My feet do not hurt when I step out of bed in the morning. The pain is from just standing in once place for more than 2 or 3 minutes. It is a burning (searing) type of pain. My feet do not go numb and the toes do not feel tingly. The pain also feels like standing in sharp objects. My ankles itch from time to time. Maybe a tingle? I roll my feet over a golf ball and tennis ball every night and apply ice. It used to hurt just to put my feet on the ball. Now I can roll over the ball and the pain I get is the next day from being sore. I can walk with relatively low pain level..but once I stop to stand in line or to talk to someone, the pain is terrible. I am going to have to go for another EMG test. This time it will be a standing test. I have never had a shot of cortisone, but may be going on a short oral cycle. My pain is spread over the sole from heel to just before the ball of the foot. If the arches are pressed hard enough, the fascia hurts. I stretch a lot and am not over weight. Does all this sound like basic PF or TTS or a bit of both? I am 12 months into all this. I was at my worse in March of 2000. But I just don't get any better or worse from here. I can drive with no problem. I can even run if I attempt it. My lifestyle has been terribly altered in the past year. I need to know if anyone has these mixed symptoms and if it can all go away and did I act fast enough. STANDING IS THE WORSE!!!! Please contact me if you need me to provide more details or to ask me questions. Thank you. Monte

Re: another reason not to panic

Carmen on 1/08/02 at 15:11 (069233)

Yikes Monte..You sound like me. Walking is better than standing....sensations ont he ankle etc.....A lot of the Same symptoms but my tingling and burning are finally gone. My EMG tests were slightly abnormal but the neur. said it doesn't reflect anything but the pressure from the PF causing the pain.
Could yours just be PF....?

Re: another reason not to panic

Monte on 1/08/02 at 15:13 (069234)

carmen
i hope my buring is from the PF inflamation compressing somethine somewhere in the feet. How and when did yours go away? are you all bette now? please write to me at (email removed)

Re: mixed symptoms

alan k on 1/08/02 at 18:28 (069257)

I too had mixed symptoms, from year 35-37. Standing was the worse. I never had immediate morning pain, but after the tts cleared up I was able to perceive the classic pain pattern of pf. The tts made it hard to be sure about the pf, because the pain was spread out all over the foot (except I did have sharp pain near the pf-spot from time to time)

I am uncertain of the value of rolling the foot on a golf ball. In the school of Thai massage I subscribe to, we do not directly massage the heel if it is injured or torn, as in pf. We try not to aggravate it. This conflicts with other approaches to massage, which have had very good reviews here on heelspurs.com. However, if the heel and foot pain is due to what is called here in the US a 'Trigger point,' then we might massage the heel, and a golf ball would be a good instrument for that. But for the most part we massage the calf and leg and the whole integrated system achieves greater health together.

The first recommendation I have for you is to see your doctor and ask for bloodwork, including all the regular suspects PLUS B-12 and Homocysteine levels. Many people on the tts board present symptoms that could look like peripheral neuropathy, and Wendyn and I are always trying to catch that and send people to doctors about it, because it can be serious and also because it can be easily reversed through B-12 injections and supplements, if that is the cause (there are other causes).

So far as I know, no one has ever come back reporting they have peripheral neuropathy, but I have been away. (TTS is technically 'pn' but a very different kind).

I would also recommend supplementing with methylcobalamin (I can only find it online) and a B-complex supplement. I would not run, ever for now, but if you are not too bad you might try gentle walking on soft uneven surfaces in GREAT sneakers or shoes, and see if it helps or hurts in the long run. MAybe not good in cold weather.

Basically with tts in my opinion, anything that feels good is good and anything that feels bad is bad. The nerve needs a break, and the more rest it gets the better. However, gentle exercise can be restful and healthy for it.

Definitely keep an eye out for my posts on herbal supplements that include or are similar to the Thai medicine I took, especially since some of your symptoms are similar to mine.

Also, look up my instructions for Thai massage and stretching that I posted last week. I think it begins 'Answer for Brian' or something.

As opposed to pf, in tts Thai massage, strangely enough we do massage the ligament that crosses over the tarsal tunnel region, giving it a good flick (but not like an acupressure press-- like strumming a guitar). But I have seen several people complain on the board about worsening of pain after their massage therapist massaged
the tts region, though I don't know whether they were pressing on it (bad) or flicking it (possibly good-- but need to consult your doctor).

If you are familiar with stretching, key points to stretch are your groin and your hip (too technical to explain why), and key points to apply firm pressure with your hands in massage is on both sides of the upper leg, right above the part where it starts to bulge and become the knee. These spots may be sensitive, which is okay. Press with fingers or thumb for about ten seconds.

Ask me more later, and I will also post more later.

cheers, alan

Re: another reason not to panic

Carmen on 1/09/02 at 08:35 (069309)

Monte
I sent you an email....

Re: mixed symptoms

Carmen on 1/09/02 at 08:48 (069311)

Alan~

Can you drop me a line at my email?
(email removed)

Carmen H

Re: Elliott

Carmen on 1/09/02 at 08:51 (069312)

Elliott~

Read Alans post above....how he explains the 'flicking' like strumming a guitar massage of the TTS is EXACTLY what the NST is like.
This almost sounds exactly like what my symptoms were and howthey are being treated only it's not called Thai massage andthere are a few differences....see Elliott I am not nuts. ;-)
Or naive...
But blonde? yes!

Re: uh-oh

elliott on 1/08/02 at 09:19 (069183)

Exactly where is the numbness in the bottom of your foot, and exactly where does the pain shoot down? Please be as specific as you can. Any swelling?

It's still too early to panic. You may want to try icing the inner ankle for a while, then maybe taking some warm baths.

Re: uh-oh

Jane on 1/08/02 at 09:22 (069186)

The numbness is from the arch of my foot to my toes....there may be a little swelling jsut under the inside of my ankle. When not moving, it's mostly numb. When I bend my ankle or touch it, it sends a piercing pain right to my toes. Do you have any idea what this is, will rest cure it? Thanks!

Re: need more info

elliott on 1/08/02 at 09:30 (069187)

Which toes? Very important!

If there's swelling, ice it! Five times a day, 15-20 minutes a pop. Maybe swelling goes down, you get better, and we never get to know you (our loss, but a good thing for you).

--

Re: Toes

Jane on 1/08/02 at 10:59 (069195)

My three middle toes. So this will probably go away on it's own?

Re: Toes

elliott on 1/08/02 at 11:15 (069196)

Your toe combination is somewhat unusal but not unheard of. It seems like you could have tarsal tunnel or entrapment of the medial plantar nerve (based on your description, effectively the same thing). There are documented cases where this came from wearing (often new) ski boots. I have one in front of me. That case got better through NSAIDS (ibuprofen and the like), cortisone shots and PT.

Take NSAIDS and ice for the swelling, and if it's not better in a week or so, make an appt to see a doc. Which type of doc is subject to a lot of debate around here. A respected podiatrist is a good start. If it keeps up, get a nerve conduction test.

It's hard for me to say if it will be one of those cases that goes away in a few days, one of those cases that goes away with relatively conservative treatment, or one needing surgery. It's so early, try not to panic, maybe it'll clear up. If not post back and keep us informed.

-----

Re: Elliott

Jane on 1/08/02 at 11:47 (069201)

Thanks a lot for your help! I will definitely let you know how this turns out!

Re: another reason not to panic

alan k on 1/08/02 at 12:26 (069208)

This is really very anecdotal, and an amazing coincidence, but I was just sitting here working at my computer in Birkenstocks without socks and on a cold floor exposed to a cold draft, and when I got up from my chair I got sharp pains right in my tarsal tunnel region on both feet.

I have had tts and pf, and may be slightly vulnerable still. Why I think this is a good sign is that perhaps there is something about cold that effects this region and that maybe at least this part of the cause would presumably not be serious. Of course this is really flimsy evidence.

Elliot is right about ski boots. I suggest you browse the messages on tts to get a sense of how long it can take in some cases to heal tts, and how tricky it can be. That way, while not getting too worried, you will be motivated to avoid snowboarding for a long time to come, and I think it would be crazy to ever use those particular boots ever again no matter how you feel. Throw them out now, I say. Its just not worth it.

Luckily you will probably do some sigificant healing in the next couple weeks and we'll never hear from you again.

best wishes, alan k

Re: another reason not to panic

Monte on 1/08/02 at 13:24 (069220)

alan

can you possibly help me. I am 36 yrs old and have had somewhat mixed symptoms for about a year now. I posted my history but I will do it again.....

Here is my situation. I started get pains in my arches 12 months ago while shopping at the mall. I went to a Podiatrist about 30 days later. He told me that I had PF in both feet and it will get under control over time. Made me orthotics that killed my feet and I never wore them again. I then went to Sports doctor (foot specialist) who said it would go away over time and also sent me for a EMG test. I took it lying down, which I found out is not correct to check all the nerves. I am now under the care of 2 great doctors. I have orthotics that have deep heel cups to control my over pronation and arch support for my arches. They are not hard and not soft. They also run the whole length of the foot. They feel fine. My feet are not flat, but the arch is a bit low when I stand. My feet do not hurt when I step out of bed in the morning. The pain is from just standing in once place for more than 2 or 3 minutes. It is a burning (searing) type of pain. My feet do not go numb and the toes do not feel tingly. The pain also feels like standing in sharp objects. My ankles itch from time to time. Maybe a tingle? I roll my feet over a golf ball and tennis ball every night and apply ice. It used to hurt just to put my feet on the ball. Now I can roll over the ball and the pain I get is the next day from being sore. I can walk with relatively low pain level..but once I stop to stand in line or to talk to someone, the pain is terrible. I am going to have to go for another EMG test. This time it will be a standing test. I have never had a shot of cortisone, but may be going on a short oral cycle. My pain is spread over the sole from heel to just before the ball of the foot. If the arches are pressed hard enough, the fascia hurts. I stretch a lot and am not over weight. Does all this sound like basic PF or TTS or a bit of both? I am 12 months into all this. I was at my worse in March of 2000. But I just don't get any better or worse from here. I can drive with no problem. I can even run if I attempt it. My lifestyle has been terribly altered in the past year. I need to know if anyone has these mixed symptoms and if it can all go away and did I act fast enough. STANDING IS THE WORSE!!!! Please contact me if you need me to provide more details or to ask me questions. Thank you. Monte

Re: another reason not to panic

Carmen on 1/08/02 at 15:11 (069233)

Yikes Monte..You sound like me. Walking is better than standing....sensations ont he ankle etc.....A lot of the Same symptoms but my tingling and burning are finally gone. My EMG tests were slightly abnormal but the neur. said it doesn't reflect anything but the pressure from the PF causing the pain.
Could yours just be PF....?

Re: another reason not to panic

Monte on 1/08/02 at 15:13 (069234)

carmen
i hope my buring is from the PF inflamation compressing somethine somewhere in the feet. How and when did yours go away? are you all bette now? please write to me at (email removed)

Re: mixed symptoms

alan k on 1/08/02 at 18:28 (069257)

I too had mixed symptoms, from year 35-37. Standing was the worse. I never had immediate morning pain, but after the tts cleared up I was able to perceive the classic pain pattern of pf. The tts made it hard to be sure about the pf, because the pain was spread out all over the foot (except I did have sharp pain near the pf-spot from time to time)

I am uncertain of the value of rolling the foot on a golf ball. In the school of Thai massage I subscribe to, we do not directly massage the heel if it is injured or torn, as in pf. We try not to aggravate it. This conflicts with other approaches to massage, which have had very good reviews here on heelspurs.com. However, if the heel and foot pain is due to what is called here in the US a 'Trigger point,' then we might massage the heel, and a golf ball would be a good instrument for that. But for the most part we massage the calf and leg and the whole integrated system achieves greater health together.

The first recommendation I have for you is to see your doctor and ask for bloodwork, including all the regular suspects PLUS B-12 and Homocysteine levels. Many people on the tts board present symptoms that could look like peripheral neuropathy, and Wendyn and I are always trying to catch that and send people to doctors about it, because it can be serious and also because it can be easily reversed through B-12 injections and supplements, if that is the cause (there are other causes).

So far as I know, no one has ever come back reporting they have peripheral neuropathy, but I have been away. (TTS is technically 'pn' but a very different kind).

I would also recommend supplementing with methylcobalamin (I can only find it online) and a B-complex supplement. I would not run, ever for now, but if you are not too bad you might try gentle walking on soft uneven surfaces in GREAT sneakers or shoes, and see if it helps or hurts in the long run. MAybe not good in cold weather.

Basically with tts in my opinion, anything that feels good is good and anything that feels bad is bad. The nerve needs a break, and the more rest it gets the better. However, gentle exercise can be restful and healthy for it.

Definitely keep an eye out for my posts on herbal supplements that include or are similar to the Thai medicine I took, especially since some of your symptoms are similar to mine.

Also, look up my instructions for Thai massage and stretching that I posted last week. I think it begins 'Answer for Brian' or something.

As opposed to pf, in tts Thai massage, strangely enough we do massage the ligament that crosses over the tarsal tunnel region, giving it a good flick (but not like an acupressure press-- like strumming a guitar). But I have seen several people complain on the board about worsening of pain after their massage therapist massaged
the tts region, though I don't know whether they were pressing on it (bad) or flicking it (possibly good-- but need to consult your doctor).

If you are familiar with stretching, key points to stretch are your groin and your hip (too technical to explain why), and key points to apply firm pressure with your hands in massage is on both sides of the upper leg, right above the part where it starts to bulge and become the knee. These spots may be sensitive, which is okay. Press with fingers or thumb for about ten seconds.

Ask me more later, and I will also post more later.

cheers, alan

Re: another reason not to panic

Carmen on 1/09/02 at 08:35 (069309)

Monte
I sent you an email....

Re: mixed symptoms

Carmen on 1/09/02 at 08:48 (069311)

Alan~

Can you drop me a line at my email?
(email removed)

Carmen H

Re: Elliott

Carmen on 1/09/02 at 08:51 (069312)

Elliott~

Read Alans post above....how he explains the 'flicking' like strumming a guitar massage of the TTS is EXACTLY what the NST is like.
This almost sounds exactly like what my symptoms were and howthey are being treated only it's not called Thai massage andthere are a few differences....see Elliott I am not nuts. ;-)
Or naive...
But blonde? yes!