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the brooks addiction

Posted by nancy s. on 1/08/02 at 18:12 (069251)

hi all brooks addiction addicts:
from all the discussion of this walking shoe, i'm getting really interested in trying it. i looked at the website, read about it, and saw the pic, but i couldn't tell from the pic whether or not the women's brooks addiction walking shoe has an achilles notch at the back (which i tend to need). does anyone know? i wrote the website, but they sent me back a form reply saying they can't give advice for any specific affliction, even though i just want info on the addiction.
thanks if you can help.
nancy

Re: well, the men's does

elliott on 1/08/02 at 21:59 (069283)

Would you expect less from the Brooks Addiction? :-) Hard to tell from the photo if the women's does, but I'd guess yes (wait for Rebecca to get them in the mail). Furthermore, the running shoe version, essentially the same thing but multi-colored and with more synthetic materials in the upper (to add the desired breathability and lighter weight runners desire) indeed has the achilles notch:

http://www.holabirdsports.com/cgi-bin/product?product=040840&group=5

----

Re: well, the men's does

nancy s. on 1/08/02 at 22:11 (069284)

thanks, elliott. i can hardly wait, because my plastic card is sitting here right next to me -- they look and sound that good. but, sigh, i'll try to wait for rebecca to get hers.
rebecca, when your brooks addictions arrive, will you post and tell me for sure that they have the achilles notch? my achilles tendon has a thing for it. t h a n k y o u !
nancy

Re: well, the men's does

rebecca h on 1/09/02 at 10:21 (069317)

Sure, I'd be glad to. But I will be out of town a few days so it may be Monday or Tuesday before you hear from me. The shoes should be here by then and I should be back on the message boards by then!!!

Re: the brooks addiction

Richard, C.Ped on 1/09/02 at 11:16 (069329)

I may be mistaken...but I am pretty sure all Brooks have an Achilles notch, except for the 'Fuse' and the flip flops. At least, that is what I see in my catalog.
Richard

Re: well, the men's does

PatC on 1/09/02 at 17:09 (069389)

Elliot,
What is an achilles notch? I can't stand wearing any shoes with a back because of pain in the back of heel. Does achilles notch take pressure off heel? I couldn't get into web page you listed for holabirdsports.

Re: well, the men's does

Carole C on 1/09/02 at 17:53 (069395)

I think it's what my SAS shoes have... a notch at the top of the back of the shoe, right where your Achilles tendon is. That way the top edge of the leather doesn't rub your Achilles tendon so much. (Is this right?)

Carole C

Re: well, the men's does

RACHAEL T. on 1/09/02 at 21:21 (069420)

achilles notch..? I wonder if anyone has added anything to a boot that makes the back of their heel hurt...probably the same soreness that you are referring to when you recommend the sneakers w/ the achilles notch??? Pls. advise if anything can be done to remedy this situation in workboots.

Re: well, the men's does

Carole C on 1/09/02 at 21:29 (069423)

It seems to me that an achilles notch wouldn't help in a workboot, since it goes way up onto the calf.

Orthotics that include a heel lift and are worn with the boot, would lessen the tension on the Achilles tendon, I would imagine. Is that what you mean?

Carole C

Re: well, the men's does--Brooks Addiction WT--all leather version of the Addiction IV

Ed Davis, DPM on 1/09/02 at 22:14 (069428)

Brooks makes an all leather version of the Addiction IV called the Addiction WT. The black leather version is popular with factory workers who don't need steel toed shoes and the all white version with nurses. It is a bit hard to find---my local pedorthist stocks them at my request but often runs out and needs to substitiue the New Balance 800 series.
Ed

Re: the brooks addiction

nancy s. on 1/10/02 at 18:19 (069572)

thank you, richard! i'm at the 'get set' stage of 'ready, get set, go' in my near-inevitable purchase of the brooks addiction. i'm excited!
nancy

Re: the brooks addiction

rebecca h on 1/12/02 at 18:15 (069794)

They have the notch. They feel good so far. Not great, because my feet are still hurting in the forefeet- which has been going on for months, but better than my other shoes. The arch support is good, they are wide enough in the forefoot-I can actually wiggle my toes which makes me happy....I wonder if there is a shoe similar to this which is a high top. Seems to me that would help my posterior tibial tendonitis....Thank you Elliot for directing me to these shoes. I'll update you in a few days about how they are doing...

Re: the brooks addiction

nancy s. on 1/12/02 at 18:26 (069800)

thanks so much, rebecca. they sound really good, because i not only need the notch but also like plenty of room for my toes; they get very claustrophobic otherwise. and there is actually arch support, right there in the shoe? maybe no extra inserts needed? i'll go insane with joy if all this is true.

very good question: i'd like to know of a good high top, too -- i have remnants of PTT and peroneal tendonitis. every high top i've tried since these conditions struck cut into the tendons in the wrong spots. but i haven't even found many to try that fulfill all the other criteria.

i'll be eagerly watching for your second report, rebecca. does the front of the shoe seem fairly squared off or boxy, as opposed to tapered in or the least bit pointed? (you can tell me in your second report.)
nancy

Re: the brooks addiction

elliott on 1/12/02 at 21:09 (069816)

Good start. Unfortunate you have the forefoot problem too. Be patient with the effects on the PTTD; it may take a month or so of finally walking in decent shoes to see improvement. Regarding high tops, it would have to be more like a brace to really help, and then you get into all those other problems: discomfort, tugging on tendons, etc. Keep us updated.

---

Re: the brooks addiction

rebecca h on 1/12/02 at 22:08 (069831)

Here I am back already...After a few more little walks around the house...dare I hope?... it seems that even my tender forefeet are beginning to relax a bit and maybe even have less pain. One thing that is bothering me a bit is a spot between my inside ankle bone and heel feels like a little hard lump that is rubbing against a tender spot there, I think it is where the posterior tenden is, and since it is only bothering my worst foot perhaps it is only because it was already sore there anyway and hyersensitive to pressure? Anyone have any suggestions about how to deal with this?? Maybe I'll just put a bandaid there and see what happens...

Anyway, so far, I really am glad I got them. They are better than my New Balance, Zeetas, Birkenstocks....etc, etc.

The toe box doesn't look pointy or boxy, just gently curved. The sole of the shoe is wider than what I have had in the past. The arch support seems about right for me. I have never asked a doctor, but believe I have average arches, neither flat nor high. (Hope this helps you Nancy)

Re: the brooks addiction

Carole C on 1/12/02 at 22:24 (069835)

Rebecca, I am happy that these shoes seem to be so promising for you! Also I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they remain so. The right shoes might make all the difference in the world and I hope they do. Keep us updated on your progress!

Carole C

Re: the brooks addiction --- rebecca

nancy s. on 1/14/02 at 05:59 (069945)

rebecca, yes, your posts certainly are helping me make up my mind.

i wonder if the spot that feels tender (near your post. tib.) just needs some breaking in on the shoe -- maybe soften up that place on the shoe, give it a more worn-in massage, do some extra bending with your hands, or something like that?

i have one more question and then i'll knock it off and just order them! do you know how sometimes athletic shoes feel as though they don't come up high enough on your foot -- everything feels a little low, like you might walk right out of the shoe or your heel rides up in it? what i'm wondering is, does the addiction seem to you to be encasing your foot and give you a feeling that there's no way you could possibly walk out of it?

thanks, rebecca.
nancy

Re: the brooks addiction --- rebecca

rebecca h on 1/15/02 at 18:49 (070095)

To me it feels secure. I think that's because the heel area is still snug although the toes can still wiggle. Hope you like them, but if you don't you can send 'em back and get your money. (except shipping)

I am reeeeeeaaaaaalllllly glad I got mine. They haven't healed my feet but they are the most comfortable shoes I have had in a very long time. And, like Elliot said, it may take a month or so of wearing good shoes before my feel feel better. That wasn't an exact quote but you get the idea.

Re: Do shoes that feel good help your feet heal?

Carole C on 1/15/02 at 22:31 (070123)

I have high hopes for your feet, Rebecca, especially now that you have been resting them lots more, and have the Brooks shoes. When you have had them a few weeks, it should be easier to tell if they are going to heal your feet. I don't remember how long it took me to figure that out with my shoes/orthotics combo, but I think it was probably at least a week or two even though I seem to be doing unusually well lately compared with most others here. Like everything else with PF, it takes time.

That brings up a question... If shoes or orthotics feel good, does that mean that they are helping your feet heal?

I don't really know, but I suspect that often this is the case. If a shoe hurts your PF, that could keep your PF from healing due to little micro-injuries, I'd guess, and if a shoe feels good it's preventing these little tears.... so then you'd heal. This is not an informed opinion but just a wild guess based on how my feet feel. LOL Any thoughts on this, anybody?

Carole C

Re: P.S. Can we say...

Carole C on 1/15/02 at 22:33 (070125)

Can we say, then, 'If it feels good, do it?' LOL

Just a throw back to the sixties here.....

Carole C

Re: P.S. Can we say...

rebecca h on 1/16/02 at 10:23 (070183)

Carole...

It sure makes sense to me that if a shoe feels good it will help my feet heal. At this point if I walk very slowly and don't make any sudden turns or twists my feet are not in much pain. But the moment I begin to walk normally or twist slightly or are on my feet for more than a few minutes at a time I am painfully reminded that there's still something wrong with my feet. One kindof weird thing is the pain keeps shifting around. Another weird thing is that often when I first sit or lie down my arch muscles do this twitching thing and and sometimes my big toe makes these slight involuntary movements. It's not that painful, just disturbing.

I am so happy for you for your improvement in your feet. How does it feel to go shopping? : ) Good, I expect!

Well, see you around the message boards! : )
rebecca

Re: P.S. Can we say...

Carole C on 1/16/02 at 20:56 (070228)

I think even when healing it does take some time before you can walk normally, or twist or stay on your feet awhile. Probably it's best not to do those things that hurt, if you can avoid them. I still can't stay on my feet for a long time, and I try not to twist or do strange things that strain my PF on the edges of curbs or steps, because that hurts and sets me back. By now I am just about back to where I was before wearing normal shoes on Jan. 8th instead of my orthotics/SAS combo. Well, almost.

The twitching and the way the pain moves around, both might be just due to getting used to the shoes. My feet do that in the evenings if I have forgotten to take off my orthotics and put on my Birks, to rest my feet. It's like my feet are saying, 'Hey! We aren't used to being in these orthotics for so long! Whatever happened to breaking us in?' LOL

It's great to feel like I can do things! I will have a long weekend since I have Friday and Monday off. Friday I have to go to the dentist (yuck!) and get my car serviced, but sometime during this long weekend I definitely plan to shop! I might try to find the local Birkenstock store, or I might go to one of the big stores like WalMart that I enjoy. Maybe SAMs, maybe Circuit City. I will play it by ear and see what I feel like. I am totally out of groceries so that is definitely on the agenda. The freedom to walk farther when I want to is exhilarating. :) I so sincerely and deeply hope that you are feeling this good soon too!

Some day, I will be wearing more normal shoes, but I need to resign myself to the idea that that is months away and not in the near future.

Carole C

Re: elliot

rebecca h on 1/18/02 at 21:12 (070456)

Did you have any trouble adjusting to the heel stabilizer or whatever you call it in your Brooks Addictions? There is just this one place on the inside of my ankle just toward the front of the heel and on the side of my foot. It's just a hard little lump that irritates that spot. Other than that, these shoes are the most comfortable I have had in a looooooong time, but I was wondering, in your case, if you had a break in period or what.

Re: elliot

elliott on 1/20/02 at 00:00 (070608)

No adjustment period for me, other than that I couldn't wear them for a long time due to TTS irritation, but that wasn't the shoe's fault. Not sure what spot you're talking about. Can you ascertain if it's your foot or if it's the shoe? Is it bothering you on one foot or both? If no wear shows and you don't think you can overcome what's bothering you, you may still be able to return them. Sorry if that's the case. Shoes are such a tricky thing.

---

Re: elliot

rebecca h on 1/20/02 at 09:15 (070630)

: :
: :
: :
: :

: :

:
: X ______ :
: ; :
: _______; : _________ :_____/

Re: elliot

rebecca h on 1/20/02 at 09:33 (070631)

Oh, brother, that didn't work. I 'drew' a picture of a foot to show you where exactly it hurts. But, when I posted the picture, as you can see, something was lost in the translation. A 'foot compression' has occured...

So I will try to explain in words....
You know that bone that sticks out from your inner ankle? Well, go down from there about an inch and a half. Is that as clear as mud? : ) That's where it hurts. I am not sure at this point whether its because of my feet or because of the shoe. Its mainly in the worst foot but also slightly in the other.

I seem to have very 'pressure sensitive' feet. I'm not making this up, although to alot of people it might seem that way. Its like the story of the princess and the pea. You know...they can tell she's the real princess because she can feel the tiny little pea under twenty soft feather beds. My feet are like that. Just really over sensitive to pressure of any kind. They haven't always been this way. I think it must be a reaction to chronic pain.

Too late to send these shoes back. They've been splattered with chili.(oops) I can still wear them with a soft ankle brace and they are still better than other shoes I have. I will just keep on searching until I do find the right shoe. Let me know if you have any ideas.

Re: elliot

wendyn on 1/20/02 at 09:41 (070634)

Sounds to me like you're describing the Tarsal Tunnel area?

Re: elliot

rebecca h on 1/20/02 at 09:59 (070641)

Okay, so....are you implying that perhaps I should be hanging out on the TTS message board? By the way, how is your grandmother doing?

Re: Rebecca

wendyn on 1/20/02 at 16:40 (070676)

I dunno. The location you sound like you're describe is the area where the pain is felt in Tarsal Tunnel Syndrome.

She 9my grandmother) is doing a bit better.

The nausea is better - and she's eating some more. She's really bruised - I mean REALLY bruised - icky yellow/black bruising all over her leg.

Her spirits are good - I'll go see her later tonight.

Alzheimers (her roommate) is a bizarre problem, I know a little bit about it and years ago I did volunteer work in the Geriatric ward. But, it's been a while since I've been real close to someone with it.

I was amazed at how sometimes the roommate can look right at me, and appear to be completely lucid. She did this yesterday, so I asked her if she was hungry (they were bringing supper around). She thought for a second and then said firmly 'yes'. Later she noticed I was reading a book and said that she hadn't been reading much lately.

Then she just slips off and doesn't make any sense again.

It's really very sad. It's hard to know how much she understands about what's happening to her. But, for those moments when she's so clear - it's hard to know what she knows and what she doesn't know.

Re: wendy

rebecca h on 1/20/02 at 18:52 (070699)

my grandmother had alzeimers. I lived with her and my grandfather one summer. Sometimes she thought I was my mother (her daughter). She told the same stories over and over each time as if it were the first time. She sang songs to my baby son- songs she had learned as a child, like Jesus Loves Me. She always remembered the words to those songs. But she couldn't remember what day it was and sometimes didn't know who my grandfather was. I wish I had known her better before she started having Alzeimer's. She had been a very bright, hardworking, giving person an artist and a very good cook.

Your grandmother sounds like a wonderful person. You must be a lot like her.

Re: update on my Addictions : )

rebecca h on 1/25/02 at 16:44 (071288)

Thought you folks might like an update on my Brooks Addiction Walkers. They are still the best, most comfortable shoes I've found so far. They still are a little uncomfortable in the inside of my ankle, but, in all fairness, I tried on several other pairs of older gym shoes in my closet, that I no longer wear and they hurt in the same place, which I don't remember happening before, so I think its safe to assume that the pain is from the tender sore area of my foot and not necessarily from the shoes. Right after icing my feet, which of course decreases the swelling in that one little place, it doesn't hurt. But after wearing them an hour or so it starts to hurt again. Has anyone else had a similar experience? It also seems to me, though I can't prove it, that since I didn't have pain in this area before the doctor before the doctor I am going to now made the orthotics and told me to wear them 3 weeks before deciding if they were going to work for my feet or needed adjusting, and that it would involve some pain during the adjustment period, that the orthotics actually caused damage to my post tibial area which had not been there before, because I trusted him and wore them even though they hurt. (was that a run-on sentence or What?) Anyway, I think they are helping my feet, especially my forefeet.

Re: update on my Addictions : )

rebecca h on 1/25/02 at 16:52 (071292)

just wanted to make it clear that it was the doctor before the one I am going to now that prescribed the orthotics that I think did more harm than good. The doctor I am going to now has not prescribed orthotics at this point, but said that if he did it would be a different kind from the first and that they would have more flexibility than the first ones.

Re: update on my Addictions : )

Carole C on 1/25/02 at 21:00 (071327)

Cute title to your post! :)

Glad to hear that your Brooks are still working for you, Rebecca, and I'm glad you don't see that first doctor any more. Maybe the second doctor can help with that pain on the inside of your ankle the next time you see him.

Carole C

Re: update on my Addictions : )

nancy s. on 1/26/02 at 02:35 (071348)

rebecca, thanks so much for this update on your Addictions. (but what about your other addictions? you say nothing, but i know you must have some...).

my Addictions came yesterday -- after i'd already spent too many hours on my feet, and they were a bit sore -- but i couldn't wait and i put them on right away. they fit perfectly, they have a better arch support than my new balance, there's more room for my toes (which is great and which i was looking for), and overall they feel more stable than any other athletic shoe i've tried.

i wore them for about two hours, indoors, as a trial. after a while my heels got that sort of fat-pad-less painful feeling, and i went back to my birks for the rest of the day. i'm going to try them some more tomorrow. but already i feel they're the best so far, outside of birks, and will no doubt keep them.

i was kind of looking for that painful spot to act up, which you've mentioned and one other person did too in the last couple of weeks. i didn't feel anything there at all. so i don't know if it was your orthotics that set that syndrome in motion, or maybe just that our feet are shaped differently. but if other shoes have caused you that pain too, it's probably from the orthotics you had before. that's my best guess.

thanks to you and elliott for making me aware of these shoes! please keep posting about them, and i will too.
nancy

Re: update on my Addictions : )

rebecca h on 1/26/02 at 14:56 (071427)

Another addiction I have is Chocolate. Especially chocolate chip cookies right out of the oven. And Special Dark chocolate candy bars. And brownies. Uh-oh... I'm making myself hungry!!! :)

I'm so glad for you about your Brooks. I hope they continue to help. By the way, I was just wandering... what kind of Birkenstocks do you wear? I have some Milanos but have not been able to get used to them yet. I have even tried pounding the hard spots with a hammer but they still hurt my feet. Maybe when they get better I'll be able to wear them. Did it take you very long?

Re: update on my Addictions : )

nancy s. on 1/26/02 at 20:10 (071467)

rebecca, i now have several kinds of birks: boston (in both regular and soft footbed), nebraska tatami, monterey, and recently zuerich. the bostons feel best to me by far. they were the first kind i got, over two years ago now, and it took hardly any time for me to get used to them. i think people usually have to break them in some; guess i got lucky. where are the hard spots that you're pounding with a hammer? how long have you been trying to break them in?

chocolate is kind of a pleasant problem in my house too!
nancy

Re: update on my Addictions : )

rebecca h on 1/26/02 at 22:05 (071480)

I've been hammering the forefoot and outer arch. In the birkenstock cork footbed that is. Actually there ARE moments I'd like to hammer my feet too just for some relief. I don't think it would work very well though. : )
I tried on some Dansko clogs today and really loved the width and arch support. Two things kept me from buying them. They were not soft in the forefoot and they cost 95.00. I still cringe when I see shoe prices like that!!!! But now I'm wondering if I should have just gone ahead and bought them. It's hard knowing how much money to pour into this seemingly endless search for the perfect shoe. The rest of the family still have needs which require money so I can't spend every last cent on me. But I guess if I ever found the right shoe 95.00 would be worth it if it got me back to being a normal mom. : )

Re: update on my Addictions : )

Julie on 1/27/02 at 02:57 (071486)

Rebecca, I have a pair of Milanos too. They look pretty much the same as the Arizonas, but they don't feel the same, and I've never been as comfortable with them. Every so often I pull them out and try again, but they're just not quite right, and I end up putting my Arizonas back on. The footbeds of the different styles do differ, and it may be that the Milano footbed just doesn't suit your feet. I don't know that hammering would do any good, but I somehow doubt it. And DON'T hammer your feet. Goodness.

Danskos have had a very good 'press' here. Perhaps you could get a pair, try them out at home on carpet, and return them if you find they don't work out. At that price, I think most good stores would accept them back in new condition.

Re: update on my Addictions : )

rebecca h on 1/27/02 at 15:15 (071542)

Hi Julie!

Yes, I did try a pair of Arizonas, too. It wasn't the right size so I went back to the store and the only birkenstocks they had in my size were the Milanos. So that's how I ended up with them, instead of Arizonas.

I may go back there and get the Danskos. They do have a policy that if you wear them indoors and they don't work well you can take them back.

I think my feet are starting to improve. Some days are still very painful but today has been good. I actually got to play in my church praise band this morning. Something I haven't done in a couple of months. There are two very large steps up to the stage and it touched me deeply that my friends helped me up them and back down them without having to be asked. (I have trouble asking for help, being too independent at times.) Anyway, I wore my Brooks Addiction walkers, and that was no problem because most of the people at our church wear blue jeans and sweatshirts (not a very dressy crowd) and my feet are only mildly tired. So the whole morning went well and its sunny and about 50 degrees farenheit-amazingly warm for January!

How are you doing and how is England? : )

Re: well, the men's does

elliott on 1/08/02 at 21:59 (069283)

Would you expect less from the Brooks Addiction? :-) Hard to tell from the photo if the women's does, but I'd guess yes (wait for Rebecca to get them in the mail). Furthermore, the running shoe version, essentially the same thing but multi-colored and with more synthetic materials in the upper (to add the desired breathability and lighter weight runners desire) indeed has the achilles notch:

http://www.holabirdsports.com/cgi-bin/product?product=040840&group=5

----

Re: well, the men's does

nancy s. on 1/08/02 at 22:11 (069284)

thanks, elliott. i can hardly wait, because my plastic card is sitting here right next to me -- they look and sound that good. but, sigh, i'll try to wait for rebecca to get hers.
rebecca, when your brooks addictions arrive, will you post and tell me for sure that they have the achilles notch? my achilles tendon has a thing for it. t h a n k y o u !
nancy

Re: well, the men's does

rebecca h on 1/09/02 at 10:21 (069317)

Sure, I'd be glad to. But I will be out of town a few days so it may be Monday or Tuesday before you hear from me. The shoes should be here by then and I should be back on the message boards by then!!!

Re: the brooks addiction

Richard, C.Ped on 1/09/02 at 11:16 (069329)

I may be mistaken...but I am pretty sure all Brooks have an Achilles notch, except for the 'Fuse' and the flip flops. At least, that is what I see in my catalog.
Richard

Re: well, the men's does

PatC on 1/09/02 at 17:09 (069389)

Elliot,
What is an achilles notch? I can't stand wearing any shoes with a back because of pain in the back of heel. Does achilles notch take pressure off heel? I couldn't get into web page you listed for holabirdsports.

Re: well, the men's does

Carole C on 1/09/02 at 17:53 (069395)

I think it's what my SAS shoes have... a notch at the top of the back of the shoe, right where your Achilles tendon is. That way the top edge of the leather doesn't rub your Achilles tendon so much. (Is this right?)

Carole C

Re: well, the men's does

RACHAEL T. on 1/09/02 at 21:21 (069420)

achilles notch..? I wonder if anyone has added anything to a boot that makes the back of their heel hurt...probably the same soreness that you are referring to when you recommend the sneakers w/ the achilles notch??? Pls. advise if anything can be done to remedy this situation in workboots.

Re: well, the men's does

Carole C on 1/09/02 at 21:29 (069423)

It seems to me that an achilles notch wouldn't help in a workboot, since it goes way up onto the calf.

Orthotics that include a heel lift and are worn with the boot, would lessen the tension on the Achilles tendon, I would imagine. Is that what you mean?

Carole C

Re: well, the men's does--Brooks Addiction WT--all leather version of the Addiction IV

Ed Davis, DPM on 1/09/02 at 22:14 (069428)

Brooks makes an all leather version of the Addiction IV called the Addiction WT. The black leather version is popular with factory workers who don't need steel toed shoes and the all white version with nurses. It is a bit hard to find---my local pedorthist stocks them at my request but often runs out and needs to substitiue the New Balance 800 series.
Ed

Re: the brooks addiction

nancy s. on 1/10/02 at 18:19 (069572)

thank you, richard! i'm at the 'get set' stage of 'ready, get set, go' in my near-inevitable purchase of the brooks addiction. i'm excited!
nancy

Re: the brooks addiction

rebecca h on 1/12/02 at 18:15 (069794)

They have the notch. They feel good so far. Not great, because my feet are still hurting in the forefeet- which has been going on for months, but better than my other shoes. The arch support is good, they are wide enough in the forefoot-I can actually wiggle my toes which makes me happy....I wonder if there is a shoe similar to this which is a high top. Seems to me that would help my posterior tibial tendonitis....Thank you Elliot for directing me to these shoes. I'll update you in a few days about how they are doing...

Re: the brooks addiction

nancy s. on 1/12/02 at 18:26 (069800)

thanks so much, rebecca. they sound really good, because i not only need the notch but also like plenty of room for my toes; they get very claustrophobic otherwise. and there is actually arch support, right there in the shoe? maybe no extra inserts needed? i'll go insane with joy if all this is true.

very good question: i'd like to know of a good high top, too -- i have remnants of PTT and peroneal tendonitis. every high top i've tried since these conditions struck cut into the tendons in the wrong spots. but i haven't even found many to try that fulfill all the other criteria.

i'll be eagerly watching for your second report, rebecca. does the front of the shoe seem fairly squared off or boxy, as opposed to tapered in or the least bit pointed? (you can tell me in your second report.)
nancy

Re: the brooks addiction

elliott on 1/12/02 at 21:09 (069816)

Good start. Unfortunate you have the forefoot problem too. Be patient with the effects on the PTTD; it may take a month or so of finally walking in decent shoes to see improvement. Regarding high tops, it would have to be more like a brace to really help, and then you get into all those other problems: discomfort, tugging on tendons, etc. Keep us updated.

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Re: the brooks addiction

rebecca h on 1/12/02 at 22:08 (069831)

Here I am back already...After a few more little walks around the house...dare I hope?... it seems that even my tender forefeet are beginning to relax a bit and maybe even have less pain. One thing that is bothering me a bit is a spot between my inside ankle bone and heel feels like a little hard lump that is rubbing against a tender spot there, I think it is where the posterior tenden is, and since it is only bothering my worst foot perhaps it is only because it was already sore there anyway and hyersensitive to pressure? Anyone have any suggestions about how to deal with this?? Maybe I'll just put a bandaid there and see what happens...

Anyway, so far, I really am glad I got them. They are better than my New Balance, Zeetas, Birkenstocks....etc, etc.

The toe box doesn't look pointy or boxy, just gently curved. The sole of the shoe is wider than what I have had in the past. The arch support seems about right for me. I have never asked a doctor, but believe I have average arches, neither flat nor high. (Hope this helps you Nancy)

Re: the brooks addiction

Carole C on 1/12/02 at 22:24 (069835)

Rebecca, I am happy that these shoes seem to be so promising for you! Also I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they remain so. The right shoes might make all the difference in the world and I hope they do. Keep us updated on your progress!

Carole C

Re: the brooks addiction --- rebecca

nancy s. on 1/14/02 at 05:59 (069945)

rebecca, yes, your posts certainly are helping me make up my mind.

i wonder if the spot that feels tender (near your post. tib.) just needs some breaking in on the shoe -- maybe soften up that place on the shoe, give it a more worn-in massage, do some extra bending with your hands, or something like that?

i have one more question and then i'll knock it off and just order them! do you know how sometimes athletic shoes feel as though they don't come up high enough on your foot -- everything feels a little low, like you might walk right out of the shoe or your heel rides up in it? what i'm wondering is, does the addiction seem to you to be encasing your foot and give you a feeling that there's no way you could possibly walk out of it?

thanks, rebecca.
nancy

Re: the brooks addiction --- rebecca

rebecca h on 1/15/02 at 18:49 (070095)

To me it feels secure. I think that's because the heel area is still snug although the toes can still wiggle. Hope you like them, but if you don't you can send 'em back and get your money. (except shipping)

I am reeeeeeaaaaaalllllly glad I got mine. They haven't healed my feet but they are the most comfortable shoes I have had in a very long time. And, like Elliot said, it may take a month or so of wearing good shoes before my feel feel better. That wasn't an exact quote but you get the idea.

Re: Do shoes that feel good help your feet heal?

Carole C on 1/15/02 at 22:31 (070123)

I have high hopes for your feet, Rebecca, especially now that you have been resting them lots more, and have the Brooks shoes. When you have had them a few weeks, it should be easier to tell if they are going to heal your feet. I don't remember how long it took me to figure that out with my shoes/orthotics combo, but I think it was probably at least a week or two even though I seem to be doing unusually well lately compared with most others here. Like everything else with PF, it takes time.

That brings up a question... If shoes or orthotics feel good, does that mean that they are helping your feet heal?

I don't really know, but I suspect that often this is the case. If a shoe hurts your PF, that could keep your PF from healing due to little micro-injuries, I'd guess, and if a shoe feels good it's preventing these little tears.... so then you'd heal. This is not an informed opinion but just a wild guess based on how my feet feel. LOL Any thoughts on this, anybody?

Carole C

Re: P.S. Can we say...

Carole C on 1/15/02 at 22:33 (070125)

Can we say, then, 'If it feels good, do it?' LOL

Just a throw back to the sixties here.....

Carole C

Re: P.S. Can we say...

rebecca h on 1/16/02 at 10:23 (070183)

Carole...

It sure makes sense to me that if a shoe feels good it will help my feet heal. At this point if I walk very slowly and don't make any sudden turns or twists my feet are not in much pain. But the moment I begin to walk normally or twist slightly or are on my feet for more than a few minutes at a time I am painfully reminded that there's still something wrong with my feet. One kindof weird thing is the pain keeps shifting around. Another weird thing is that often when I first sit or lie down my arch muscles do this twitching thing and and sometimes my big toe makes these slight involuntary movements. It's not that painful, just disturbing.

I am so happy for you for your improvement in your feet. How does it feel to go shopping? : ) Good, I expect!

Well, see you around the message boards! : )
rebecca

Re: P.S. Can we say...

Carole C on 1/16/02 at 20:56 (070228)

I think even when healing it does take some time before you can walk normally, or twist or stay on your feet awhile. Probably it's best not to do those things that hurt, if you can avoid them. I still can't stay on my feet for a long time, and I try not to twist or do strange things that strain my PF on the edges of curbs or steps, because that hurts and sets me back. By now I am just about back to where I was before wearing normal shoes on Jan. 8th instead of my orthotics/SAS combo. Well, almost.

The twitching and the way the pain moves around, both might be just due to getting used to the shoes. My feet do that in the evenings if I have forgotten to take off my orthotics and put on my Birks, to rest my feet. It's like my feet are saying, 'Hey! We aren't used to being in these orthotics for so long! Whatever happened to breaking us in?' LOL

It's great to feel like I can do things! I will have a long weekend since I have Friday and Monday off. Friday I have to go to the dentist (yuck!) and get my car serviced, but sometime during this long weekend I definitely plan to shop! I might try to find the local Birkenstock store, or I might go to one of the big stores like WalMart that I enjoy. Maybe SAMs, maybe Circuit City. I will play it by ear and see what I feel like. I am totally out of groceries so that is definitely on the agenda. The freedom to walk farther when I want to is exhilarating. :) I so sincerely and deeply hope that you are feeling this good soon too!

Some day, I will be wearing more normal shoes, but I need to resign myself to the idea that that is months away and not in the near future.

Carole C

Re: elliot

rebecca h on 1/18/02 at 21:12 (070456)

Did you have any trouble adjusting to the heel stabilizer or whatever you call it in your Brooks Addictions? There is just this one place on the inside of my ankle just toward the front of the heel and on the side of my foot. It's just a hard little lump that irritates that spot. Other than that, these shoes are the most comfortable I have had in a looooooong time, but I was wondering, in your case, if you had a break in period or what.

Re: elliot

elliott on 1/20/02 at 00:00 (070608)

No adjustment period for me, other than that I couldn't wear them for a long time due to TTS irritation, but that wasn't the shoe's fault. Not sure what spot you're talking about. Can you ascertain if it's your foot or if it's the shoe? Is it bothering you on one foot or both? If no wear shows and you don't think you can overcome what's bothering you, you may still be able to return them. Sorry if that's the case. Shoes are such a tricky thing.

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Re: elliot

rebecca h on 1/20/02 at 09:15 (070630)

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Re: elliot

rebecca h on 1/20/02 at 09:33 (070631)

Oh, brother, that didn't work. I 'drew' a picture of a foot to show you where exactly it hurts. But, when I posted the picture, as you can see, something was lost in the translation. A 'foot compression' has occured...

So I will try to explain in words....
You know that bone that sticks out from your inner ankle? Well, go down from there about an inch and a half. Is that as clear as mud? : ) That's where it hurts. I am not sure at this point whether its because of my feet or because of the shoe. Its mainly in the worst foot but also slightly in the other.

I seem to have very 'pressure sensitive' feet. I'm not making this up, although to alot of people it might seem that way. Its like the story of the princess and the pea. You know...they can tell she's the real princess because she can feel the tiny little pea under twenty soft feather beds. My feet are like that. Just really over sensitive to pressure of any kind. They haven't always been this way. I think it must be a reaction to chronic pain.

Too late to send these shoes back. They've been splattered with chili.(oops) I can still wear them with a soft ankle brace and they are still better than other shoes I have. I will just keep on searching until I do find the right shoe. Let me know if you have any ideas.

Re: elliot

wendyn on 1/20/02 at 09:41 (070634)

Sounds to me like you're describing the Tarsal Tunnel area?

Re: elliot

rebecca h on 1/20/02 at 09:59 (070641)

Okay, so....are you implying that perhaps I should be hanging out on the TTS message board? By the way, how is your grandmother doing?

Re: Rebecca

wendyn on 1/20/02 at 16:40 (070676)

I dunno. The location you sound like you're describe is the area where the pain is felt in Tarsal Tunnel Syndrome.

She 9my grandmother) is doing a bit better.

The nausea is better - and she's eating some more. She's really bruised - I mean REALLY bruised - icky yellow/black bruising all over her leg.

Her spirits are good - I'll go see her later tonight.

Alzheimers (her roommate) is a bizarre problem, I know a little bit about it and years ago I did volunteer work in the Geriatric ward. But, it's been a while since I've been real close to someone with it.

I was amazed at how sometimes the roommate can look right at me, and appear to be completely lucid. She did this yesterday, so I asked her if she was hungry (they were bringing supper around). She thought for a second and then said firmly 'yes'. Later she noticed I was reading a book and said that she hadn't been reading much lately.

Then she just slips off and doesn't make any sense again.

It's really very sad. It's hard to know how much she understands about what's happening to her. But, for those moments when she's so clear - it's hard to know what she knows and what she doesn't know.

Re: wendy

rebecca h on 1/20/02 at 18:52 (070699)

my grandmother had alzeimers. I lived with her and my grandfather one summer. Sometimes she thought I was my mother (her daughter). She told the same stories over and over each time as if it were the first time. She sang songs to my baby son- songs she had learned as a child, like Jesus Loves Me. She always remembered the words to those songs. But she couldn't remember what day it was and sometimes didn't know who my grandfather was. I wish I had known her better before she started having Alzeimer's. She had been a very bright, hardworking, giving person an artist and a very good cook.

Your grandmother sounds like a wonderful person. You must be a lot like her.

Re: update on my Addictions : )

rebecca h on 1/25/02 at 16:44 (071288)

Thought you folks might like an update on my Brooks Addiction Walkers. They are still the best, most comfortable shoes I've found so far. They still are a little uncomfortable in the inside of my ankle, but, in all fairness, I tried on several other pairs of older gym shoes in my closet, that I no longer wear and they hurt in the same place, which I don't remember happening before, so I think its safe to assume that the pain is from the tender sore area of my foot and not necessarily from the shoes. Right after icing my feet, which of course decreases the swelling in that one little place, it doesn't hurt. But after wearing them an hour or so it starts to hurt again. Has anyone else had a similar experience? It also seems to me, though I can't prove it, that since I didn't have pain in this area before the doctor before the doctor I am going to now made the orthotics and told me to wear them 3 weeks before deciding if they were going to work for my feet or needed adjusting, and that it would involve some pain during the adjustment period, that the orthotics actually caused damage to my post tibial area which had not been there before, because I trusted him and wore them even though they hurt. (was that a run-on sentence or What?) Anyway, I think they are helping my feet, especially my forefeet.

Re: update on my Addictions : )

rebecca h on 1/25/02 at 16:52 (071292)

just wanted to make it clear that it was the doctor before the one I am going to now that prescribed the orthotics that I think did more harm than good. The doctor I am going to now has not prescribed orthotics at this point, but said that if he did it would be a different kind from the first and that they would have more flexibility than the first ones.

Re: update on my Addictions : )

Carole C on 1/25/02 at 21:00 (071327)

Cute title to your post! :)

Glad to hear that your Brooks are still working for you, Rebecca, and I'm glad you don't see that first doctor any more. Maybe the second doctor can help with that pain on the inside of your ankle the next time you see him.

Carole C

Re: update on my Addictions : )

nancy s. on 1/26/02 at 02:35 (071348)

rebecca, thanks so much for this update on your Addictions. (but what about your other addictions? you say nothing, but i know you must have some...).

my Addictions came yesterday -- after i'd already spent too many hours on my feet, and they were a bit sore -- but i couldn't wait and i put them on right away. they fit perfectly, they have a better arch support than my new balance, there's more room for my toes (which is great and which i was looking for), and overall they feel more stable than any other athletic shoe i've tried.

i wore them for about two hours, indoors, as a trial. after a while my heels got that sort of fat-pad-less painful feeling, and i went back to my birks for the rest of the day. i'm going to try them some more tomorrow. but already i feel they're the best so far, outside of birks, and will no doubt keep them.

i was kind of looking for that painful spot to act up, which you've mentioned and one other person did too in the last couple of weeks. i didn't feel anything there at all. so i don't know if it was your orthotics that set that syndrome in motion, or maybe just that our feet are shaped differently. but if other shoes have caused you that pain too, it's probably from the orthotics you had before. that's my best guess.

thanks to you and elliott for making me aware of these shoes! please keep posting about them, and i will too.
nancy

Re: update on my Addictions : )

rebecca h on 1/26/02 at 14:56 (071427)

Another addiction I have is Chocolate. Especially chocolate chip cookies right out of the oven. And Special Dark chocolate candy bars. And brownies. Uh-oh... I'm making myself hungry!!! :)

I'm so glad for you about your Brooks. I hope they continue to help. By the way, I was just wandering... what kind of Birkenstocks do you wear? I have some Milanos but have not been able to get used to them yet. I have even tried pounding the hard spots with a hammer but they still hurt my feet. Maybe when they get better I'll be able to wear them. Did it take you very long?

Re: update on my Addictions : )

nancy s. on 1/26/02 at 20:10 (071467)

rebecca, i now have several kinds of birks: boston (in both regular and soft footbed), nebraska tatami, monterey, and recently zuerich. the bostons feel best to me by far. they were the first kind i got, over two years ago now, and it took hardly any time for me to get used to them. i think people usually have to break them in some; guess i got lucky. where are the hard spots that you're pounding with a hammer? how long have you been trying to break them in?

chocolate is kind of a pleasant problem in my house too!
nancy

Re: update on my Addictions : )

rebecca h on 1/26/02 at 22:05 (071480)

I've been hammering the forefoot and outer arch. In the birkenstock cork footbed that is. Actually there ARE moments I'd like to hammer my feet too just for some relief. I don't think it would work very well though. : )
I tried on some Dansko clogs today and really loved the width and arch support. Two things kept me from buying them. They were not soft in the forefoot and they cost 95.00. I still cringe when I see shoe prices like that!!!! But now I'm wondering if I should have just gone ahead and bought them. It's hard knowing how much money to pour into this seemingly endless search for the perfect shoe. The rest of the family still have needs which require money so I can't spend every last cent on me. But I guess if I ever found the right shoe 95.00 would be worth it if it got me back to being a normal mom. : )

Re: update on my Addictions : )

Julie on 1/27/02 at 02:57 (071486)

Rebecca, I have a pair of Milanos too. They look pretty much the same as the Arizonas, but they don't feel the same, and I've never been as comfortable with them. Every so often I pull them out and try again, but they're just not quite right, and I end up putting my Arizonas back on. The footbeds of the different styles do differ, and it may be that the Milano footbed just doesn't suit your feet. I don't know that hammering would do any good, but I somehow doubt it. And DON'T hammer your feet. Goodness.

Danskos have had a very good 'press' here. Perhaps you could get a pair, try them out at home on carpet, and return them if you find they don't work out. At that price, I think most good stores would accept them back in new condition.

Re: update on my Addictions : )

rebecca h on 1/27/02 at 15:15 (071542)

Hi Julie!

Yes, I did try a pair of Arizonas, too. It wasn't the right size so I went back to the store and the only birkenstocks they had in my size were the Milanos. So that's how I ended up with them, instead of Arizonas.

I may go back there and get the Danskos. They do have a policy that if you wear them indoors and they don't work well you can take them back.

I think my feet are starting to improve. Some days are still very painful but today has been good. I actually got to play in my church praise band this morning. Something I haven't done in a couple of months. There are two very large steps up to the stage and it touched me deeply that my friends helped me up them and back down them without having to be asked. (I have trouble asking for help, being too independent at times.) Anyway, I wore my Brooks Addiction walkers, and that was no problem because most of the people at our church wear blue jeans and sweatshirts (not a very dressy crowd) and my feet are only mildly tired. So the whole morning went well and its sunny and about 50 degrees farenheit-amazingly warm for January!

How are you doing and how is England? : )