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Adjusting Birkenstocks

Posted by Carole C in NOLA on 1/29/02 at 18:34 (071847)

A discovery! If Birkenstock straps are reasonably loose, your foot slides around too much on every step and that affects the placement of the arch support bumps. I tightened the middle strap of my Floridas (the toe strap was already as tight as it gets) and suddenly the arch support was in a much better position.

I don't know why I didn't try this before! I guess because the shoes felt comfortable as they were. I've been wearing my Birkenstocks at least part of every day since January 24th when I bought them, and never changed how the straps were buckled.

Carole C

Re: Adjusting the strap tightness in Birkenstocks

Carole C in NOLA on 1/29/02 at 20:00 (071868)

I meant November 24th, of course. And the strap was at the looser of two comfortable tightnesses when it should have been at the tighter of the two.

Carole C

Re: Adjusting the strap tightness in Birkenstocks

Julie on 1/30/02 at 03:26 (071894)

Carole, I'm not saying you weren't right to tighten your straps a little (because I can't see them, or you walking in your Birks!) but the straps are meant to be loose enough to slip all four fingers under.

This is so that they don't restrict the movement of your feet. The beauty of the Birkenstock footbed is that it makes your foot muscles work. You're meant to curl and grip with your toes with each step (that's what the toe bar is for). If you do this, not 'just walk', your foot won't slide around, and everything will stay in the right place. If the straps are tight, you can't work the toes: there's no space for the instep to lift.

I hope this is clear. It's not just the arch support that is so good about Birks, it's the fact that they encourage proper use of the entire musculature of the feet.

Re: Adjusting the strap tightness in Birkenstocks

Carole C in NOLA on 1/30/02 at 05:56 (071898)

Gosh, Julie. I know there's a lot of verbiage about the toes working and so on, but I really couldn't see it happening much more or less after I tightened the strap. Maybe my toes just aren't as clever as yours but I'm not able to keep the Birkenstock positioned well with the strap looser.

I did notice that I've been able to wear my Birkenstocks all day on several different days during the past couple of weeks, for the first time with much less pain in my feet resulting when I do.

So although you are very articulate and saying things that *sound* logical, maybe this time what I'm experiencing is actually helpful for me and might be for someone else. It seems to me that if the Birkenstocks cause too much pain to wear all day after wearing them for a few hours every day for more than two months, and a strap adjustment fixes that problem, that it might be worthwhile to mention.

I wish someone had bothered to give me the information I'm providing a couple of months ago.

Carole

Re: Also Birkenstock says..

Carole C in NOLA on 1/30/02 at 06:10 (071899)

Also, Birkenstock instructions are to tighten the toe strap appropriately so that the shoe doesn't slop around too much. This is not counter to their philosophy or suggestions at all.

I never say anything out of phony know-it-all-ism, but simply relate my personal experiences that I think might be helpful to others.

The last time I posted on this board, you chastised me because the topic of shower shoes had already been treated. This is a less frequently posted suggestion, but one that I DEFINITELY wish had been discussed in the way that I discussed it, previous to this. This information could have saved me nearly $400 on my custom orthotics and the shoes they go in.

Carole C

Re: Also Birkenstock says..

Julie on 1/30/02 at 08:40 (071910)

Carole, I am very sorry if what I said offended you. I too was speaking from my experience of years with Birks and how they work for me, and also with regard to the advice I have been given when getting fitted for them. I am very glad that the adjustment you've made has been helpful.

When did I 'chastise you'? I certainly don't recall doing that, but if I did, my apologies again.

Re: Shower shoes

Julie on 1/30/02 at 09:41 (071917)

Carole, I've been bothered about this ever since I read your post an hour ago, so I finally used the search facility to see if I could find what you meant. And I have.

When I said that there had been past posts about shower shoes, and suggested you do a search, I wasn't chastising you, or implying that you were 'cluttering the boards', I was pointing you towards information that I hoped would be helpful to you. The search facility is easily overlooked in the excitement and interest of current posts, but heelspurs.com has been going for about four years now, and all the information people have given has been archived. I've often found people's past posts helpful and interesting, and I thought you might too.

Anyway, that's all I meant. But again, I'm very sorry if you thought you were being criticized. You weren't.

Re: Adjusting Birkenstocks

Suzanne D on 1/30/02 at 11:02 (071929)

I've come to the conclusion, Carole, that this is an individulaized thing, and one must just keep trying to get the right combination! I couldn't tell you how many times I've adjusted and readjusted the straps on mine.

I think, perhaps, that in my case the leather straps may have stretched just a little after some wearing, and that made a difference. Also, my feet and ankles were noticably swollen when PF began. By the time I got my Arizonas, this had gone down, but perhaps there was still some swelling which was not noticable to me but was there, nontheless.

I also have decided that I just have 'weird' feet! (Maybe I should be kinder to my feet and say 'unusual' instead of 'weird'.) In my 42 regular Arizonas, my toes come right to the rim, which I know is not where they are supposed to come. But in a 43, when I place my heel where it is supposed to be, the toes are a nice distance from the rim of the shoe, but the arch is too far up. So I uncounsciously inch my foot forward to make the arch fit, and then the toes are where they are in the 42's. Strange... So I wear the 42's, and the toe part really doesn't bother me - especially with socks.

When I got a pair of Boston's in the fall, I did get a 43 as my toes uncomfortably hit the end of the 42 shoe. I also got a narrow as the regular width kept coming off my foot. The arch fits o.k. in them. (Perhaps I needed a narrow Arizona, but the regular is what the saleslady thought I needed. Again, perhaps my feet were somewhat swollen at the time.)

(Sorry if you're getting tired of reading all this! I must get back to school soon; I'm having too much time at the computer!) :-)

I ordered a pair of Annapolis from Germany to get the 43. Even though they are narrow width and the right length, the shoes felt like they were slipping off my feet...And so I ended up placing a full length soft over- the-counter insert underneath the removable footbed of the shoe to raise it up enough to comfortably fit me!

Anyway...I have found that I have to just keep trying until I get it right for me. And what is right one month may not be right the next. At least until my feet get much better.

Good luck to you! I am glad that you are finding the Birkenstocks more comfortable to wear! I imagine this shows the improvement your feet have undergone. I am happy for you!

Re: Adjusting Birkenstocks

Carole C in NOLA on 1/30/02 at 17:18 (071975)

Suzanne, what a great idea to put an insert under the removable footbed. That's something I never would have thought of, in similar circumstances, and it might be helpful to me if my Amsterdams I am waiting for are too big around. :)

My feet were probably a little more swelled at first, and I am certain that the straps have stretched. Right now I have fastened them using the tightest possible hole, except for the middle strap which is on the next to tightest one. They are not cutting off my circulation and I can still get four fingers under the strap. I will probably have to have a cobbler put another hole in each strap if they stretch much more. I can't wear a smaller size, because my feet are too wide to do that. I have weird/unusual feet too, but try to think of them as worthy of night blooming jasmine lotion. LOL

Carole C

Re: Wa-hoo! Just got my package of Birkenstocks

Carole C in NOLA on 1/30/02 at 17:37 (071976)

Yes! I was just writing my last post when there was a knock on the door, UPS with my Amsterdams and Arizonas. I immediately put on the Amsterdam clogs and the high arch is utter bliss! I am wearing them now. I will break them in but for now they feel great. The top does not seem too tight or loose. I'm wearing socks with them for now, and the whipstitching doesn't rub too much.

I tried on my Arizonas too, and they are great, like my Floridas, but I like my Tatami Amsterdams with the high arch even better so far. Right now the way they fit my foot is great. They are snug so they stay in place, but not tight at all. I hope they do not get too much looser as they are broken in. The whipstitching may help with that. :)

Re: shoes and orthotics and inserts...

Carole C in NOLA on 1/30/02 at 17:49 (071977)

I hate trying to communicate online... it is so easy to misunderstand someone when I can't see their body language, facial expressions, and so on. Julie, I am sorry if I took your posts in a way you did not mean them. I do so much appreciate your experiences and ideas and hope to benefit from them, and from the experiences and ideas of others who might want to add to these threads too.

I am hoping to begin some various topics on this shoes/orthotics/inserts part of the board, to try to get more posts here. This type of topic is really interesting to me and I'm hoping to post some things that might inspire further discussion and ideas and experiences. My posts may not be brilliant but with any luck they might be a springboard for some better ones.

Carole C

Re: Adjusting Birkenstocks

Suzanne D on 1/30/02 at 17:52 (071978)

I like that attitude, Carole: worthy of night blooming jasmine lotion! :-)
By the way, if you have to go another hole smaller on the straps, you might do what I have done in the past with belts and shoes - carefully use an ice pick! Of course a cobbler would do a more professional job...

Re: Talk about perfect timing!

Suzanne D on 1/30/02 at 17:59 (071979)

I'm so glad your shoes arrived and that they fit! It sounds as if the Amsterdams are going to be just right for your feet. I sure do hope so. They ARE pretty in the catalog! I know how you feel about wanting something that looks nice with some of your outfits, so maybe this will be an answer for you!

I didn't go on to say about my last shoes as my earlier post was getting so looong, but the Tatami Georgias on sale from Birkenstock Express arrived yesterday (I had mistakenly told you it was Alice that I ordered; I looked at so many while sick and got confused!) Anyway, they fit, and I like them. I was a tad bit disappointed that the arch wasn't as high as the Margaret which I tried on in the store. I hadn't read your post about the Tatami's being different in their arches until after I ordered. I liked the higher arch better, but these will do, I think. I keep learning! I believe, like she told you, they really have 'fooled around' with the arch support in that Tatami brand!

I wish you many hours of happy and pain-free walking in your new shoes, Carole! :-)

Re: Talk about perfect timing!

Carole C in NOLA on 1/30/02 at 18:36 (071980)

The Georgia is a very pretty shoe! I'm glad they fit and that you like them. They are beautiful and could be worn anywhere, especially now that summer is on its way. It was 80F here again today, and feels like summer already.

I can understand your disappointment about the arch. The brand new Amsterdams I am wearing definitely have the high arch, and it feels like it has more cork in it too; high and substantial feeling compared with my brand new Arizonas. It will be interesting to see if they remain higher arched as I break them in.

By the time the spring line of Birkenstocks arrives in my local Birkenstock store, in a month or so, I should already know if the high arch remains high. If it does, I will talk to the lady there and try to find out what other Tatami's come with the very high arch. It sounds like the Margaret has a fairly high arch too.

Carole C

Re: feet, heels, and Birkenstocks

Carole C in NOLA on 1/30/02 at 18:48 (071982)

You are braver than me. I think I'll take my precious Birks to the cobbler instead of trying myself. But thanks for the idea. I think our 'unusual' feet are definitely worthy of night blooming jasmine lotion and new Birkenstocks. :)

Gosh, these feel great. I spent most of today at LSU wearing my Floridas, and my feet were beginning to tire since I've been pushing a little lately. These new high arched Tatami Amsterdams are a big relief. The deeper narrower heel cup, which they warned might be a problem for wider heels, is much nicer for my heel too. It positions it much better and my heel feels more stable and settled in.

Carole C

Re: We'll have to compare notes!

Suzanne D on 1/30/02 at 18:59 (071984)

I'll be interested in hearing what Tatami's come with the higher arches. And I'll pass along anything I learn to you, too! As the old saying goes, 'Two heads are better than one!'. (And I suppose 4 feet are better than 2!) :-)

Re: We'll have to compare notes!

Carole C in NOLA on 1/30/02 at 19:42 (071991)

Great! I am eager to know what Tatami's come with especially high arches. It's terrific to know someone on heelspurs.com who also has high arches and is on the same 'quest'. (grin)

Ohhhhhh my feet feel so nice! The quest is definitely worth the time and effort. I may never take these Amsterdams off. They'll probably have to bury me in them when I get old and die. LOL (just kidding)

Carole C

Re: I never thought I'd see this

elliott on 1/30/02 at 22:22 (072025)

two of the board's goodie-goodies squabbling over misunderstood words. :-)

IMHO, there's far too much sensitivity around here. I know humor is forbidden on these boards, but maybe a little more of it would really go a long way...

---

Re: Hmmm

wendyn on 1/30/02 at 23:33 (072030)

I'm not sure what you're getting at here Elliott - and why you'd take a stab at Carole C (who's been really decent to you) - it is a bit puzzling.

BUT - always one for puzzles, I think I have you just about figured out.

Seems you present a persistent need to draw attention to yourself, whether it be negative or positive. Since you can't get enough of the positive here - you seem pretty content with the negative.

Your consistent preoccupation with how sensitive you think other people are makes me wonder if it's not your own 'over-sensitivity' that you're really displaying.

What do you think?

Am I on the right track?

Why does it bug you so much when people aren't talking to you or about you?

Why does it bother you when other people show support in ways that you deem to be too 'huggy' or 'goodie-goodie' - what difference does it make to you?

I'm sure you won't take these questions the wrong way - you just are a bit of an enigma that still has me scratching my head from time to time...but I think we're getting there. I have no doubt that you'll let me know what you think.

Re: shoes and orthotics and inserts...

Julie on 1/31/02 at 03:25 (072040)

No problem Carole - don't worry about it, and thanks.

I appreciate you too, and I know you'll have lots of fun with your brand new brood of Birkenstocks.

Re: I never thought I'd see this

nancy s. on 1/31/02 at 05:12 (072044)

i don't get it, elliott. maybe my brain is fogged over from reading tabloid headlines at the grocery store checkout counter?

been here over two years. humor has never been forbidden on these boards; see plenty of it. john and wendy make me laugh all the time. many others do as well. why, even julie has made me laugh a few times in the past week, and i guess you missed it! perhaps you aren't reading people's posts closely enough? or have trouble recognizing kinds of humor other than your own? you're missing out, elliott.

i find plenty of everything here, including sometimes a few squabbles. when you yourself get involved in a squabble, aren't you being too sensitive? you seem awfully sensitive about other people's sensitivity. your sensitivity to that often seems beyond the original sensitivities being worked out between or among people.

strange. but if i were you, i'd think about it. not a week goes by without you pronouncing someone 'too' something. and that's 'too' bad, because in many ways you have a great deal to offer.
nancy

Re: Posting in 60 ft. of water

Carole C in NOLA on 1/31/02 at 13:24 (072087)

Well, I think I can see what Elliott is getting at. Neither Julie nor I spam the board, and I think we both probably appreciate others here and what Scott has done in setting up the board. It seems to me like we both try to help people. Maybe we seem like goodie-goodies to Elliott? I don't know. Apparently he was a little amazed at the misunderstanding. I don't think he was taking a stab at me. But then, I have a really hard time assessing the underlying tone of posts sometimes!

Some people rely on body language and facial expressions a whole lot when they communicate. I'm one of those people. My ex-husband and I were an item before we ever spoke a word to one another (we met in a scuba class in 1974, underwater over coral reefs in Hawaii, and it took weeks before we knew who the other really was on dry land). I communicate best without words. Sometimes my interpretations of a post are just 180 off, but it's not intentional.

Carole C

Re: Wa-hoo! Just got my package of Birkenstocks

Carole C in NOLA on 1/31/02 at 13:33 (072090)

I just wore my Amsterdams to work all day (well nearly all day... I had to come home early to get a root canal, but I plan to wear them there too). Tatami's seem to require less break-in; they are very comfortable already. I got several compliments on them at work, too. It's so nice to wear shoes that seem relatively normal and pretty. :)

Carole C

Re: Wa-hoo! Just got my package of Birkenstocks

Suzanne D on 1/31/02 at 13:37 (072092)

I have read that the Tatami's don't require the same break-in period. I am glad to hear you were able to wear them today! I'm sure they ARE pretty!

I hope the root canal goes as smoothly and quickly as possible.

Just maybe - to be on the safe side - when you get home from the dentist, you might slip into another pair of shoes just since those are new to you today. I'm no doctor or expert, but I sure wouldn't want you to wake up tomorrow with sore feet as well as possibly a sore mouth!

Sorry...I tend to 'baby' everyone as if they are 6 years old! :-)

Re: Wa-hoo! Just got my package of Birkenstocks

Carole C in NOLA on 1/31/02 at 13:49 (072093)

Yes, I think I will change shoes pretty soon. I get tomorrow and the weekend off, so I can just lounge around in whatever shoes seem wisest. It is such a boost to my spirits to have these new shoes. It's sort of like having a big pimple on one's nose go away. :)

Carole C

Re: Wa-hoo! Just got my package of Birkenstocks

Suzanne D on 1/31/02 at 14:03 (072095)

I'm so happy you got them, Carole, and that they fit you so well! I do understand what it means to have something to wear that feels good and that you feel looks nice, too.

Is it getting cooler in New Orleans now? It has rained here today and is to be cooler tomorrow, I think. I hope to be back at school tomorrow. I have had 3 different subs in 3 days, and that isn't fair to the children. I've been going over each evening to lay out plans for the next day, and I can't believe the shape the room is in. I left a couple of notes to two little girls on their desks to try to help and a note to the class on the board. I hope things went better today!

Take care! :-)

Re: Wa-hoo! Just got my package of Birkenstocks

Carole C in NOLA on 1/31/02 at 16:05 (072105)

It has been in the 80's again all day here in New Orleans. The projected arrival of the rains and cold has been set back from this afternoon until the morning. We're supposed to wake up to 56 and have it down to 43 or so by noon!

Your kids are so lucky to have you as their teacher, and they will be glad when you feel good enough to go back!

At last I am all done with my root canal, except for the crown, and I don't have to go anywhere until Monday. I'm wearing my Floridas and looking forward to a terrific and relaxing weekend.

I'm going to wait until I have got to the point where I've worn my Amsterdams all day for a week or so before I break in my Arizonas. Now that's will power! LOL

The Arizonas are beautiful too. I think the taupe suede is lovely. I will wait anyway, because I want to be nice to my unusual feet - - they deserve it. :)

Carole C

Re: right

elliott on 1/31/02 at 18:43 (072122)

No stab intended. You clearly understand me better than wendyn does.

On another note, someone from NO emailed me the following today. I don't get half of them, but maybe you'll enjoy it.

> > You know you're a native Noo Awleanian....
> > No matter where else you go in the world, you are always disappointed in
the
> > ;food. Your loved one dies and you book a jazz band before you call the
> > ;coroner.
> > ;You think the breeze from a flying roach feels good on a hot summer
night. <
> > Your accent sounds nothing like Harry Connick, Jr's.
> > You can sing these jingles by heart: 'Rosenberg's, Rosenberg's, 1825
Tulane;'
> > 'At the beach, at the beach, at Pontchartrain Beach...
> > You were a high school graduate before you realized that Catholic and
Public
> > were not two major religions. <
> > Your baby's first words are 'long beads.'
> > You ask, 'How they running?' and 'Are they fat?' but, you're inquiring
about
> > seafood quality and not the Crescent City Classic.
> > When a hurricane is imminent, you have a lot more faith in Nash Roberts
than
> > some Super Doppler 6000.;
> > Your town is low on the education chart, high on the obesity chart and
You
> > don't care because you're No. 1 on the party chart! ;
> > Nothing shocks you. Period. Ever. ;
> > Your one-martini lunch becomes a five-Bloody Mary afternoon...and ;you
keep
> > ;your job. ;
> > Being in a jam at Tulane and Broad isn't the same as being stuck in
;traffic.
> > ;
> > You're walking in the French Quarter with a plastic cup of beer; ;when
it
> > starts to rain, you cover your beer instead of your head. ;
> > Your idea of health food is a baked potato instead of fries with ;your
> > seafood platter. You exhibit the 'doubloon reflex' by stomping runaway
coins
> > with your foot.
> > You have sno-ball stains on your shoes.
> > You call tomato sauce 'red gravy'
> > Your middle name is your mother's maiden name, or your father's mother's
> > maiden name, or your mother's mother's maiden name, or your
grandmother's
> > mother's maiden name, or your grandfather's mother's maiden name.
> > You know you recycled too much newspaper when there isn't enough for the
> > dinner (or crawfish) table. ;
> > On certain Spring days, Crawfish Monica is your breakfast.
> > Your house payment is less than your utility bill. ;
> > You push little old ladies out of the way to catch Mardi Gras ;throws.;
> > You look forward to being smashed by a hurricane. ;
> > You don't show your 'pretties' during Mardi Gras. ;
> > Catching 'crabs' makes you smile.
> > You write 'crookedpolitician' as all one word. ;
> > You know it's 'ask' but you purposely say 'ax'.
> > You understand it when someone describes their favorite color as
purple'. <
> > You know how to mispronounce street names correctly (Melpomene,
;Terpsichore,
> > Chartres, etc.)
> > You know that Tchoupitoulas is a street and not a disease.
> > You 'boo' the mayor on national television. ;
> > Beignets are the major cause of your gallstones.
> > You wear sweaters in October because it ought to be cold.
> > Someone asks you, 'Where y'at?' and you tell them how you are.;
> > You are left behind at an out-of-town bar searching for a 'go cup'. ;
> > You think of potholes as naturally occurring speed bumps.
> > You suck heads, eat tail, sing the blues and you actually know where you
got
> > ;them shoes.
> > You're afraid to move away because you won't be able to make Sugar
Busters
> > groceries.
> > You know why you should never, ever swim by the Lake Pontchartrain

steps.
> > You cringe every time you hear an actor with a Southern or Cajun accent.
;
> > You have to reset your clocks after every thunderstorm.
> > You still call the Fairmont Hotel the Roosevelt.
> > You consider garbage cans a legal step to protecting your parking space
on a
> > public street.
> > You ignore cockroaches because you know the only ones you could kill are
the
> > weak or infirmed, and it would only serve to strengthen the breed.
>

Re: Nawlins

Carole C in NOLA on 1/31/02 at 18:48 (072124)

Yes, that's N'awlins! :) The only thing is that that list is a little out of date. Nash Roberts retired last year, this time for good. If a hurricane threatens, we're toast! But New Orleans will party on right down to the wire..

Carole C

Re: keep thinking

elliott on 1/31/02 at 18:49 (072125)

You first say you're not sure what I'm getting at. Then you have me just about figured out. Then I'm a bit of an enigma, but we're getting there. Then you have no doubt I'll let you know what I think...

:-)

Re: Hi! On at the same time!

elliott on 1/31/02 at 18:55 (072127)

I was wondering. Does that NOLA always have to be in your name, forever? I never confused Carole C with Carol C. I don't think others will make the same mistake twice. Can you switch back? I got to know and like just Carole C. Nothing against Nawlins, now.

---

Re: Hi! On at the same time!

Carole C in NOLA on 1/31/02 at 19:01 (072129)

It doesn't always have to be there. But I got really tired of people confusing me with Carol C. There was not just one or two, but probably a half dozen people that would call me Carol and her Carole and there was more than one confusing mixed up thread on that account.

I'll tell you what... I sign my posts just 'Carole C' inside, so why don't you just cover up the 'in NOLA' on the outside with your thumb and you'll be all set. :)

Carole C

Re: I will!

wendyn on 1/31/02 at 20:30 (072144)

I wasn't sure what you were getting at with your post to Carole, but I do think I have you and your personality tendancies reasonably sorted out. You are an enigma.

I thought you would let me know what you think, but you haven't...so maybe I'm wrong.

I've been wrong before.

It could happen again.

I'd offer you one of those (((HUGS))) but I think I might be pushing my luck a wee bit.

;)

Re: no more (((HUGS))), please

elliott on 1/31/02 at 22:25 (072154)

Nothing will match that Italian one Laurie R gave me a while back. I'm still in a dreamy daze over it (and I'm married with kids!). And people keep saying it's hard to communicate in cyberspace!

:-)

Re: no more (((HUGS))), please

wendyn on 1/31/02 at 22:45 (072155)

Kay - she has me beat hands (feet?) down. She is tall and gorgeous - so it's no wonder you are still dazed!

Re: LOL!

elliott on 2/02/02 at 21:50 (072360)

Beauty isn't all (not to say you don't look nice). Has anyone observed it's often the case a fabulously gorgeous woman turns out to be very vain? (I hope JudyS isn't reading this. :-)) Often looking in the mirror, spends much of her time on trivial pursuits, is very demanding, thinks she's entitled to the world, expects to get everything she wants (and sometimes does). Scary (not that I have to worry about it). Beauty aside, I'm not a Pavlov dog in some experiment that, when thrown an automatic hug, automatically responds. You may want to think about that. But did you say Laurie's also tall? Now that's different. :-)

Speaking of dogs, it's interesting that on other boards I've visited (sports-related, e.g. running and cycling) I'm more like a puppy, rarely if ever getting into disputes. On the cycling board, the language and chauvinistic attitudes shown by some would clearly offend many here. Humor is rampant there (I like that). Overall, a nice bunch, and less touchy-feely than here. Sure, disputes, even wild ones, do happen there often (but it's not like most of the time), and then usually quickly die down. After it's all over, though, the board is usually better off with the knowledge obtained, whether it's which bike, which product, how to train. That knowledge obtained is the key. They are better informed at the end of the day. Contrast that with this board, where other than one or two renegades, no one will question someone selling a product, or contest the stated success of some unusual treatment. And there are often objections, even by the board's guiding lights, to things like a harmless joke thrown in by a doctor to counter what at least he perceives as wild claims.

And yet it is here on this board where knowledge is of primary importance. The fear those questioned might be chased away does not negate the responsibility to question them. Those with something worthwhile to sell or tell will stick around, even if the questioners could have said it nicer; the web is inherently a more anonymous setting, composed of different types of people, different writing styles. But knowledge is key.

--

Clearly a different crowd. Not here to cause trouble. It's just that maybe I don't fit in.

---

Re: LOL!

BG CPed on 2/02/02 at 23:25 (072375)

Elliot, did I get you the address,phone,price and web address for the finn comfort insert?
As you know I have had a few of my posts labeled as nasty or mean. I also had a marketer for a shoe link a post to something I posted about 6 months ago. He had every right to do it, and I welcome it. I also welcomed him to respond with a few answers to questions I had. The home site for his shoe has several claims that can be called on or questioned. If one took all the claims as gospel without objective question there would be many folks that got less than they expected.
I for one appreciate your questioning nature. I would hope maybe Scott could make a thread called The Proving Ground so that subjects, products ot theories could be presented and debated without the pc huggies getting upset.

Re: Now, Elliott...

Suzanne D on 2/03/02 at 07:33 (072388)

If you say too much more about perhaps not fitting in here, I just may have to keep you in from recess and have you copy that entire 'Thoughts on getting along' post I wrote a couple of weeks ago! Now you wouldn't want to have to do THAT, would you?!? :-)

Different strokes for different folks...We are stronger together than apart.

Thanks for being you. Have a good weekend!

Re: Anything but that. Please!

elliott on 2/03/02 at 08:41 (072394)

Actually, that line about fitting in got kept in by mistake during the editing process. You can see it strangely appears well below my usual cutoff line. I just love it here. You know that. Great bunch of people!

---

Re: I knew you had a good head on your shoulders! :-) (eom)

Suzanne D on 2/03/02 at 11:48 (072421)

.

Re: pc huggies?

elliott on 2/03/02 at 14:43 (072440)

Well, if they're tall and gorgeous, I want their hugs even if they are pc. :-) (Just kidding, wendyn.)

BG, you may end up displacing me as the most reviled member of this forum. :-) I need a break from that title anyway. On that cycling forum, I've already seen all the product sales pitches. This won't surprise you a bit, but just like here, those pitch posters don't waste time posting a bit first; they just come on in their first post pretending to be Joe Cyclist visiting the forum and immediately pitch the product. It's a tougher crowd there, and they usually smell it out right away and often find evidence to that effect (e.g. similar first post on several other internet boards). Why do they never just say who they are, introduce us to the product, some try it, and then we discuss it? Then there was the time a bike company offered free water bottles to anyone completing an online survey asking how they like that company's bikes, and then the company posted the favorable results. We then had a long thread dealing with the ethics of such things.

---

Re: LOL!

wendyn on 2/03/02 at 15:24 (072452)

Elliott - you lost me on that last post - but I was away for the weekend and I seem to be be to relaxed to put much effort into reading today.

I believe that Laurie is tall - but then again, since I don't hit the 5 ft 2 mark - people over 5 ft 3 are tall to me.

I do know for a fact though, that she is gorgeous!

Re: pc huggies?

BG CPed on 2/03/02 at 17:51 (072472)

I hear you Elliott, I am just busting chops here. There are a few ski forums as well. A person will ask a question about ski boot orthotics, or good boot fitters. Invariably there will be some John Q Skier jump in and say Joe Smith at shop xyz is the best, he did, blbahablahb then give the phone number, hours even comment on his personality. Last year there was a big rash of it, it was traced to a large chain of shops that had a few employees that were doing it, VERY dishonest. Real bad part was when a legit poster would recommend another guy they would slam him like they were a customer.
I see you are a cyclist,one of my co-workers had me read an article about the shimano cantable shoe. They had a Phd that helped design it. In the magazine article they either quoted him wrong or he was wrong but he stated that for medial knee pain you increse medial wedge. If it is o/a or meniscus tear causing the pain you will make it worse not better by doing that. Have you read anything about that shoe? I have done some work on cyclist in the past, just wondered what your thoughts on that shoe were

Re: Adjusting the strap tightness in Birkenstocks

Carole C in NOLA on 1/29/02 at 20:00 (071868)

I meant November 24th, of course. And the strap was at the looser of two comfortable tightnesses when it should have been at the tighter of the two.

Carole C

Re: Adjusting the strap tightness in Birkenstocks

Julie on 1/30/02 at 03:26 (071894)

Carole, I'm not saying you weren't right to tighten your straps a little (because I can't see them, or you walking in your Birks!) but the straps are meant to be loose enough to slip all four fingers under.

This is so that they don't restrict the movement of your feet. The beauty of the Birkenstock footbed is that it makes your foot muscles work. You're meant to curl and grip with your toes with each step (that's what the toe bar is for). If you do this, not 'just walk', your foot won't slide around, and everything will stay in the right place. If the straps are tight, you can't work the toes: there's no space for the instep to lift.

I hope this is clear. It's not just the arch support that is so good about Birks, it's the fact that they encourage proper use of the entire musculature of the feet.

Re: Adjusting the strap tightness in Birkenstocks

Carole C in NOLA on 1/30/02 at 05:56 (071898)

Gosh, Julie. I know there's a lot of verbiage about the toes working and so on, but I really couldn't see it happening much more or less after I tightened the strap. Maybe my toes just aren't as clever as yours but I'm not able to keep the Birkenstock positioned well with the strap looser.

I did notice that I've been able to wear my Birkenstocks all day on several different days during the past couple of weeks, for the first time with much less pain in my feet resulting when I do.

So although you are very articulate and saying things that *sound* logical, maybe this time what I'm experiencing is actually helpful for me and might be for someone else. It seems to me that if the Birkenstocks cause too much pain to wear all day after wearing them for a few hours every day for more than two months, and a strap adjustment fixes that problem, that it might be worthwhile to mention.

I wish someone had bothered to give me the information I'm providing a couple of months ago.

Carole

Re: Also Birkenstock says..

Carole C in NOLA on 1/30/02 at 06:10 (071899)

Also, Birkenstock instructions are to tighten the toe strap appropriately so that the shoe doesn't slop around too much. This is not counter to their philosophy or suggestions at all.

I never say anything out of phony know-it-all-ism, but simply relate my personal experiences that I think might be helpful to others.

The last time I posted on this board, you chastised me because the topic of shower shoes had already been treated. This is a less frequently posted suggestion, but one that I DEFINITELY wish had been discussed in the way that I discussed it, previous to this. This information could have saved me nearly $400 on my custom orthotics and the shoes they go in.

Carole C

Re: Also Birkenstock says..

Julie on 1/30/02 at 08:40 (071910)

Carole, I am very sorry if what I said offended you. I too was speaking from my experience of years with Birks and how they work for me, and also with regard to the advice I have been given when getting fitted for them. I am very glad that the adjustment you've made has been helpful.

When did I 'chastise you'? I certainly don't recall doing that, but if I did, my apologies again.

Re: Shower shoes

Julie on 1/30/02 at 09:41 (071917)

Carole, I've been bothered about this ever since I read your post an hour ago, so I finally used the search facility to see if I could find what you meant. And I have.

When I said that there had been past posts about shower shoes, and suggested you do a search, I wasn't chastising you, or implying that you were 'cluttering the boards', I was pointing you towards information that I hoped would be helpful to you. The search facility is easily overlooked in the excitement and interest of current posts, but heelspurs.com has been going for about four years now, and all the information people have given has been archived. I've often found people's past posts helpful and interesting, and I thought you might too.

Anyway, that's all I meant. But again, I'm very sorry if you thought you were being criticized. You weren't.

Re: Adjusting Birkenstocks

Suzanne D on 1/30/02 at 11:02 (071929)

I've come to the conclusion, Carole, that this is an individulaized thing, and one must just keep trying to get the right combination! I couldn't tell you how many times I've adjusted and readjusted the straps on mine.

I think, perhaps, that in my case the leather straps may have stretched just a little after some wearing, and that made a difference. Also, my feet and ankles were noticably swollen when PF began. By the time I got my Arizonas, this had gone down, but perhaps there was still some swelling which was not noticable to me but was there, nontheless.

I also have decided that I just have 'weird' feet! (Maybe I should be kinder to my feet and say 'unusual' instead of 'weird'.) In my 42 regular Arizonas, my toes come right to the rim, which I know is not where they are supposed to come. But in a 43, when I place my heel where it is supposed to be, the toes are a nice distance from the rim of the shoe, but the arch is too far up. So I uncounsciously inch my foot forward to make the arch fit, and then the toes are where they are in the 42's. Strange... So I wear the 42's, and the toe part really doesn't bother me - especially with socks.

When I got a pair of Boston's in the fall, I did get a 43 as my toes uncomfortably hit the end of the 42 shoe. I also got a narrow as the regular width kept coming off my foot. The arch fits o.k. in them. (Perhaps I needed a narrow Arizona, but the regular is what the saleslady thought I needed. Again, perhaps my feet were somewhat swollen at the time.)

(Sorry if you're getting tired of reading all this! I must get back to school soon; I'm having too much time at the computer!) :-)

I ordered a pair of Annapolis from Germany to get the 43. Even though they are narrow width and the right length, the shoes felt like they were slipping off my feet...And so I ended up placing a full length soft over- the-counter insert underneath the removable footbed of the shoe to raise it up enough to comfortably fit me!

Anyway...I have found that I have to just keep trying until I get it right for me. And what is right one month may not be right the next. At least until my feet get much better.

Good luck to you! I am glad that you are finding the Birkenstocks more comfortable to wear! I imagine this shows the improvement your feet have undergone. I am happy for you!

Re: Adjusting Birkenstocks

Carole C in NOLA on 1/30/02 at 17:18 (071975)

Suzanne, what a great idea to put an insert under the removable footbed. That's something I never would have thought of, in similar circumstances, and it might be helpful to me if my Amsterdams I am waiting for are too big around. :)

My feet were probably a little more swelled at first, and I am certain that the straps have stretched. Right now I have fastened them using the tightest possible hole, except for the middle strap which is on the next to tightest one. They are not cutting off my circulation and I can still get four fingers under the strap. I will probably have to have a cobbler put another hole in each strap if they stretch much more. I can't wear a smaller size, because my feet are too wide to do that. I have weird/unusual feet too, but try to think of them as worthy of night blooming jasmine lotion. LOL

Carole C

Re: Wa-hoo! Just got my package of Birkenstocks

Carole C in NOLA on 1/30/02 at 17:37 (071976)

Yes! I was just writing my last post when there was a knock on the door, UPS with my Amsterdams and Arizonas. I immediately put on the Amsterdam clogs and the high arch is utter bliss! I am wearing them now. I will break them in but for now they feel great. The top does not seem too tight or loose. I'm wearing socks with them for now, and the whipstitching doesn't rub too much.

I tried on my Arizonas too, and they are great, like my Floridas, but I like my Tatami Amsterdams with the high arch even better so far. Right now the way they fit my foot is great. They are snug so they stay in place, but not tight at all. I hope they do not get too much looser as they are broken in. The whipstitching may help with that. :)

Re: shoes and orthotics and inserts...

Carole C in NOLA on 1/30/02 at 17:49 (071977)

I hate trying to communicate online... it is so easy to misunderstand someone when I can't see their body language, facial expressions, and so on. Julie, I am sorry if I took your posts in a way you did not mean them. I do so much appreciate your experiences and ideas and hope to benefit from them, and from the experiences and ideas of others who might want to add to these threads too.

I am hoping to begin some various topics on this shoes/orthotics/inserts part of the board, to try to get more posts here. This type of topic is really interesting to me and I'm hoping to post some things that might inspire further discussion and ideas and experiences. My posts may not be brilliant but with any luck they might be a springboard for some better ones.

Carole C

Re: Adjusting Birkenstocks

Suzanne D on 1/30/02 at 17:52 (071978)

I like that attitude, Carole: worthy of night blooming jasmine lotion! :-)
By the way, if you have to go another hole smaller on the straps, you might do what I have done in the past with belts and shoes - carefully use an ice pick! Of course a cobbler would do a more professional job...

Re: Talk about perfect timing!

Suzanne D on 1/30/02 at 17:59 (071979)

I'm so glad your shoes arrived and that they fit! It sounds as if the Amsterdams are going to be just right for your feet. I sure do hope so. They ARE pretty in the catalog! I know how you feel about wanting something that looks nice with some of your outfits, so maybe this will be an answer for you!

I didn't go on to say about my last shoes as my earlier post was getting so looong, but the Tatami Georgias on sale from Birkenstock Express arrived yesterday (I had mistakenly told you it was Alice that I ordered; I looked at so many while sick and got confused!) Anyway, they fit, and I like them. I was a tad bit disappointed that the arch wasn't as high as the Margaret which I tried on in the store. I hadn't read your post about the Tatami's being different in their arches until after I ordered. I liked the higher arch better, but these will do, I think. I keep learning! I believe, like she told you, they really have 'fooled around' with the arch support in that Tatami brand!

I wish you many hours of happy and pain-free walking in your new shoes, Carole! :-)

Re: Talk about perfect timing!

Carole C in NOLA on 1/30/02 at 18:36 (071980)

The Georgia is a very pretty shoe! I'm glad they fit and that you like them. They are beautiful and could be worn anywhere, especially now that summer is on its way. It was 80F here again today, and feels like summer already.

I can understand your disappointment about the arch. The brand new Amsterdams I am wearing definitely have the high arch, and it feels like it has more cork in it too; high and substantial feeling compared with my brand new Arizonas. It will be interesting to see if they remain higher arched as I break them in.

By the time the spring line of Birkenstocks arrives in my local Birkenstock store, in a month or so, I should already know if the high arch remains high. If it does, I will talk to the lady there and try to find out what other Tatami's come with the very high arch. It sounds like the Margaret has a fairly high arch too.

Carole C

Re: feet, heels, and Birkenstocks

Carole C in NOLA on 1/30/02 at 18:48 (071982)

You are braver than me. I think I'll take my precious Birks to the cobbler instead of trying myself. But thanks for the idea. I think our 'unusual' feet are definitely worthy of night blooming jasmine lotion and new Birkenstocks. :)

Gosh, these feel great. I spent most of today at LSU wearing my Floridas, and my feet were beginning to tire since I've been pushing a little lately. These new high arched Tatami Amsterdams are a big relief. The deeper narrower heel cup, which they warned might be a problem for wider heels, is much nicer for my heel too. It positions it much better and my heel feels more stable and settled in.

Carole C

Re: We'll have to compare notes!

Suzanne D on 1/30/02 at 18:59 (071984)

I'll be interested in hearing what Tatami's come with the higher arches. And I'll pass along anything I learn to you, too! As the old saying goes, 'Two heads are better than one!'. (And I suppose 4 feet are better than 2!) :-)

Re: We'll have to compare notes!

Carole C in NOLA on 1/30/02 at 19:42 (071991)

Great! I am eager to know what Tatami's come with especially high arches. It's terrific to know someone on heelspurs.com who also has high arches and is on the same 'quest'. (grin)

Ohhhhhh my feet feel so nice! The quest is definitely worth the time and effort. I may never take these Amsterdams off. They'll probably have to bury me in them when I get old and die. LOL (just kidding)

Carole C

Re: I never thought I'd see this

elliott on 1/30/02 at 22:22 (072025)

two of the board's goodie-goodies squabbling over misunderstood words. :-)

IMHO, there's far too much sensitivity around here. I know humor is forbidden on these boards, but maybe a little more of it would really go a long way...

---

Re: Hmmm

wendyn on 1/30/02 at 23:33 (072030)

I'm not sure what you're getting at here Elliott - and why you'd take a stab at Carole C (who's been really decent to you) - it is a bit puzzling.

BUT - always one for puzzles, I think I have you just about figured out.

Seems you present a persistent need to draw attention to yourself, whether it be negative or positive. Since you can't get enough of the positive here - you seem pretty content with the negative.

Your consistent preoccupation with how sensitive you think other people are makes me wonder if it's not your own 'over-sensitivity' that you're really displaying.

What do you think?

Am I on the right track?

Why does it bug you so much when people aren't talking to you or about you?

Why does it bother you when other people show support in ways that you deem to be too 'huggy' or 'goodie-goodie' - what difference does it make to you?

I'm sure you won't take these questions the wrong way - you just are a bit of an enigma that still has me scratching my head from time to time...but I think we're getting there. I have no doubt that you'll let me know what you think.

Re: shoes and orthotics and inserts...

Julie on 1/31/02 at 03:25 (072040)

No problem Carole - don't worry about it, and thanks.

I appreciate you too, and I know you'll have lots of fun with your brand new brood of Birkenstocks.

Re: I never thought I'd see this

nancy s. on 1/31/02 at 05:12 (072044)

i don't get it, elliott. maybe my brain is fogged over from reading tabloid headlines at the grocery store checkout counter?

been here over two years. humor has never been forbidden on these boards; see plenty of it. john and wendy make me laugh all the time. many others do as well. why, even julie has made me laugh a few times in the past week, and i guess you missed it! perhaps you aren't reading people's posts closely enough? or have trouble recognizing kinds of humor other than your own? you're missing out, elliott.

i find plenty of everything here, including sometimes a few squabbles. when you yourself get involved in a squabble, aren't you being too sensitive? you seem awfully sensitive about other people's sensitivity. your sensitivity to that often seems beyond the original sensitivities being worked out between or among people.

strange. but if i were you, i'd think about it. not a week goes by without you pronouncing someone 'too' something. and that's 'too' bad, because in many ways you have a great deal to offer.
nancy

Re: Posting in 60 ft. of water

Carole C in NOLA on 1/31/02 at 13:24 (072087)

Well, I think I can see what Elliott is getting at. Neither Julie nor I spam the board, and I think we both probably appreciate others here and what Scott has done in setting up the board. It seems to me like we both try to help people. Maybe we seem like goodie-goodies to Elliott? I don't know. Apparently he was a little amazed at the misunderstanding. I don't think he was taking a stab at me. But then, I have a really hard time assessing the underlying tone of posts sometimes!

Some people rely on body language and facial expressions a whole lot when they communicate. I'm one of those people. My ex-husband and I were an item before we ever spoke a word to one another (we met in a scuba class in 1974, underwater over coral reefs in Hawaii, and it took weeks before we knew who the other really was on dry land). I communicate best without words. Sometimes my interpretations of a post are just 180 off, but it's not intentional.

Carole C

Re: Wa-hoo! Just got my package of Birkenstocks

Carole C in NOLA on 1/31/02 at 13:33 (072090)

I just wore my Amsterdams to work all day (well nearly all day... I had to come home early to get a root canal, but I plan to wear them there too). Tatami's seem to require less break-in; they are very comfortable already. I got several compliments on them at work, too. It's so nice to wear shoes that seem relatively normal and pretty. :)

Carole C

Re: Wa-hoo! Just got my package of Birkenstocks

Suzanne D on 1/31/02 at 13:37 (072092)

I have read that the Tatami's don't require the same break-in period. I am glad to hear you were able to wear them today! I'm sure they ARE pretty!

I hope the root canal goes as smoothly and quickly as possible.

Just maybe - to be on the safe side - when you get home from the dentist, you might slip into another pair of shoes just since those are new to you today. I'm no doctor or expert, but I sure wouldn't want you to wake up tomorrow with sore feet as well as possibly a sore mouth!

Sorry...I tend to 'baby' everyone as if they are 6 years old! :-)

Re: Wa-hoo! Just got my package of Birkenstocks

Carole C in NOLA on 1/31/02 at 13:49 (072093)

Yes, I think I will change shoes pretty soon. I get tomorrow and the weekend off, so I can just lounge around in whatever shoes seem wisest. It is such a boost to my spirits to have these new shoes. It's sort of like having a big pimple on one's nose go away. :)

Carole C

Re: Wa-hoo! Just got my package of Birkenstocks

Suzanne D on 1/31/02 at 14:03 (072095)

I'm so happy you got them, Carole, and that they fit you so well! I do understand what it means to have something to wear that feels good and that you feel looks nice, too.

Is it getting cooler in New Orleans now? It has rained here today and is to be cooler tomorrow, I think. I hope to be back at school tomorrow. I have had 3 different subs in 3 days, and that isn't fair to the children. I've been going over each evening to lay out plans for the next day, and I can't believe the shape the room is in. I left a couple of notes to two little girls on their desks to try to help and a note to the class on the board. I hope things went better today!

Take care! :-)

Re: Wa-hoo! Just got my package of Birkenstocks

Carole C in NOLA on 1/31/02 at 16:05 (072105)

It has been in the 80's again all day here in New Orleans. The projected arrival of the rains and cold has been set back from this afternoon until the morning. We're supposed to wake up to 56 and have it down to 43 or so by noon!

Your kids are so lucky to have you as their teacher, and they will be glad when you feel good enough to go back!

At last I am all done with my root canal, except for the crown, and I don't have to go anywhere until Monday. I'm wearing my Floridas and looking forward to a terrific and relaxing weekend.

I'm going to wait until I have got to the point where I've worn my Amsterdams all day for a week or so before I break in my Arizonas. Now that's will power! LOL

The Arizonas are beautiful too. I think the taupe suede is lovely. I will wait anyway, because I want to be nice to my unusual feet - - they deserve it. :)

Carole C

Re: right

elliott on 1/31/02 at 18:43 (072122)

No stab intended. You clearly understand me better than wendyn does.

On another note, someone from NO emailed me the following today. I don't get half of them, but maybe you'll enjoy it.

> > You know you're a native Noo Awleanian....
> > No matter where else you go in the world, you are always disappointed in
the
> > ;food. Your loved one dies and you book a jazz band before you call the
> > ;coroner.
> > ;You think the breeze from a flying roach feels good on a hot summer
night. <
> > Your accent sounds nothing like Harry Connick, Jr's.
> > You can sing these jingles by heart: 'Rosenberg's, Rosenberg's, 1825
Tulane;'
> > 'At the beach, at the beach, at Pontchartrain Beach...
> > You were a high school graduate before you realized that Catholic and
Public
> > were not two major religions. <
> > Your baby's first words are 'long beads.'
> > You ask, 'How they running?' and 'Are they fat?' but, you're inquiring
about
> > seafood quality and not the Crescent City Classic.
> > When a hurricane is imminent, you have a lot more faith in Nash Roberts
than
> > some Super Doppler 6000.;
> > Your town is low on the education chart, high on the obesity chart and
You
> > don't care because you're No. 1 on the party chart! ;
> > Nothing shocks you. Period. Ever. ;
> > Your one-martini lunch becomes a five-Bloody Mary afternoon...and ;you
keep
> > ;your job. ;
> > Being in a jam at Tulane and Broad isn't the same as being stuck in
;traffic.
> > ;
> > You're walking in the French Quarter with a plastic cup of beer; ;when
it
> > starts to rain, you cover your beer instead of your head. ;
> > Your idea of health food is a baked potato instead of fries with ;your
> > seafood platter. You exhibit the 'doubloon reflex' by stomping runaway
coins
> > with your foot.
> > You have sno-ball stains on your shoes.
> > You call tomato sauce 'red gravy'
> > Your middle name is your mother's maiden name, or your father's mother's
> > maiden name, or your mother's mother's maiden name, or your
grandmother's
> > mother's maiden name, or your grandfather's mother's maiden name.
> > You know you recycled too much newspaper when there isn't enough for the
> > dinner (or crawfish) table. ;
> > On certain Spring days, Crawfish Monica is your breakfast.
> > Your house payment is less than your utility bill. ;
> > You push little old ladies out of the way to catch Mardi Gras ;throws.;
> > You look forward to being smashed by a hurricane. ;
> > You don't show your 'pretties' during Mardi Gras. ;
> > Catching 'crabs' makes you smile.
> > You write 'crookedpolitician' as all one word. ;
> > You know it's 'ask' but you purposely say 'ax'.
> > You understand it when someone describes their favorite color as
purple'. <
> > You know how to mispronounce street names correctly (Melpomene,
;Terpsichore,
> > Chartres, etc.)
> > You know that Tchoupitoulas is a street and not a disease.
> > You 'boo' the mayor on national television. ;
> > Beignets are the major cause of your gallstones.
> > You wear sweaters in October because it ought to be cold.
> > Someone asks you, 'Where y'at?' and you tell them how you are.;
> > You are left behind at an out-of-town bar searching for a 'go cup'. ;
> > You think of potholes as naturally occurring speed bumps.
> > You suck heads, eat tail, sing the blues and you actually know where you
got
> > ;them shoes.
> > You're afraid to move away because you won't be able to make Sugar
Busters
> > groceries.
> > You know why you should never, ever swim by the Lake Pontchartrain

steps.
> > You cringe every time you hear an actor with a Southern or Cajun accent.
;
> > You have to reset your clocks after every thunderstorm.
> > You still call the Fairmont Hotel the Roosevelt.
> > You consider garbage cans a legal step to protecting your parking space
on a
> > public street.
> > You ignore cockroaches because you know the only ones you could kill are
the
> > weak or infirmed, and it would only serve to strengthen the breed.
>

Re: Nawlins

Carole C in NOLA on 1/31/02 at 18:48 (072124)

Yes, that's N'awlins! :) The only thing is that that list is a little out of date. Nash Roberts retired last year, this time for good. If a hurricane threatens, we're toast! But New Orleans will party on right down to the wire..

Carole C

Re: keep thinking

elliott on 1/31/02 at 18:49 (072125)

You first say you're not sure what I'm getting at. Then you have me just about figured out. Then I'm a bit of an enigma, but we're getting there. Then you have no doubt I'll let you know what I think...

:-)

Re: Hi! On at the same time!

elliott on 1/31/02 at 18:55 (072127)

I was wondering. Does that NOLA always have to be in your name, forever? I never confused Carole C with Carol C. I don't think others will make the same mistake twice. Can you switch back? I got to know and like just Carole C. Nothing against Nawlins, now.

---

Re: Hi! On at the same time!

Carole C in NOLA on 1/31/02 at 19:01 (072129)

It doesn't always have to be there. But I got really tired of people confusing me with Carol C. There was not just one or two, but probably a half dozen people that would call me Carol and her Carole and there was more than one confusing mixed up thread on that account.

I'll tell you what... I sign my posts just 'Carole C' inside, so why don't you just cover up the 'in NOLA' on the outside with your thumb and you'll be all set. :)

Carole C

Re: I will!

wendyn on 1/31/02 at 20:30 (072144)

I wasn't sure what you were getting at with your post to Carole, but I do think I have you and your personality tendancies reasonably sorted out. You are an enigma.

I thought you would let me know what you think, but you haven't...so maybe I'm wrong.

I've been wrong before.

It could happen again.

I'd offer you one of those (((HUGS))) but I think I might be pushing my luck a wee bit.

;)

Re: no more (((HUGS))), please

elliott on 1/31/02 at 22:25 (072154)

Nothing will match that Italian one Laurie R gave me a while back. I'm still in a dreamy daze over it (and I'm married with kids!). And people keep saying it's hard to communicate in cyberspace!

:-)

Re: no more (((HUGS))), please

wendyn on 1/31/02 at 22:45 (072155)

Kay - she has me beat hands (feet?) down. She is tall and gorgeous - so it's no wonder you are still dazed!

Re: LOL!

elliott on 2/02/02 at 21:50 (072360)

Beauty isn't all (not to say you don't look nice). Has anyone observed it's often the case a fabulously gorgeous woman turns out to be very vain? (I hope JudyS isn't reading this. :-)) Often looking in the mirror, spends much of her time on trivial pursuits, is very demanding, thinks she's entitled to the world, expects to get everything she wants (and sometimes does). Scary (not that I have to worry about it). Beauty aside, I'm not a Pavlov dog in some experiment that, when thrown an automatic hug, automatically responds. You may want to think about that. But did you say Laurie's also tall? Now that's different. :-)

Speaking of dogs, it's interesting that on other boards I've visited (sports-related, e.g. running and cycling) I'm more like a puppy, rarely if ever getting into disputes. On the cycling board, the language and chauvinistic attitudes shown by some would clearly offend many here. Humor is rampant there (I like that). Overall, a nice bunch, and less touchy-feely than here. Sure, disputes, even wild ones, do happen there often (but it's not like most of the time), and then usually quickly die down. After it's all over, though, the board is usually better off with the knowledge obtained, whether it's which bike, which product, how to train. That knowledge obtained is the key. They are better informed at the end of the day. Contrast that with this board, where other than one or two renegades, no one will question someone selling a product, or contest the stated success of some unusual treatment. And there are often objections, even by the board's guiding lights, to things like a harmless joke thrown in by a doctor to counter what at least he perceives as wild claims.

And yet it is here on this board where knowledge is of primary importance. The fear those questioned might be chased away does not negate the responsibility to question them. Those with something worthwhile to sell or tell will stick around, even if the questioners could have said it nicer; the web is inherently a more anonymous setting, composed of different types of people, different writing styles. But knowledge is key.

--

Clearly a different crowd. Not here to cause trouble. It's just that maybe I don't fit in.

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Re: LOL!

BG CPed on 2/02/02 at 23:25 (072375)

Elliot, did I get you the address,phone,price and web address for the finn comfort insert?
As you know I have had a few of my posts labeled as nasty or mean. I also had a marketer for a shoe link a post to something I posted about 6 months ago. He had every right to do it, and I welcome it. I also welcomed him to respond with a few answers to questions I had. The home site for his shoe has several claims that can be called on or questioned. If one took all the claims as gospel without objective question there would be many folks that got less than they expected.
I for one appreciate your questioning nature. I would hope maybe Scott could make a thread called The Proving Ground so that subjects, products ot theories could be presented and debated without the pc huggies getting upset.

Re: Now, Elliott...

Suzanne D on 2/03/02 at 07:33 (072388)

If you say too much more about perhaps not fitting in here, I just may have to keep you in from recess and have you copy that entire 'Thoughts on getting along' post I wrote a couple of weeks ago! Now you wouldn't want to have to do THAT, would you?!? :-)

Different strokes for different folks...We are stronger together than apart.

Thanks for being you. Have a good weekend!

Re: Anything but that. Please!

elliott on 2/03/02 at 08:41 (072394)

Actually, that line about fitting in got kept in by mistake during the editing process. You can see it strangely appears well below my usual cutoff line. I just love it here. You know that. Great bunch of people!

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Re: I knew you had a good head on your shoulders! :-) (eom)

Suzanne D on 2/03/02 at 11:48 (072421)

.

Re: pc huggies?

elliott on 2/03/02 at 14:43 (072440)

Well, if they're tall and gorgeous, I want their hugs even if they are pc. :-) (Just kidding, wendyn.)

BG, you may end up displacing me as the most reviled member of this forum. :-) I need a break from that title anyway. On that cycling forum, I've already seen all the product sales pitches. This won't surprise you a bit, but just like here, those pitch posters don't waste time posting a bit first; they just come on in their first post pretending to be Joe Cyclist visiting the forum and immediately pitch the product. It's a tougher crowd there, and they usually smell it out right away and often find evidence to that effect (e.g. similar first post on several other internet boards). Why do they never just say who they are, introduce us to the product, some try it, and then we discuss it? Then there was the time a bike company offered free water bottles to anyone completing an online survey asking how they like that company's bikes, and then the company posted the favorable results. We then had a long thread dealing with the ethics of such things.

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Re: LOL!

wendyn on 2/03/02 at 15:24 (072452)

Elliott - you lost me on that last post - but I was away for the weekend and I seem to be be to relaxed to put much effort into reading today.

I believe that Laurie is tall - but then again, since I don't hit the 5 ft 2 mark - people over 5 ft 3 are tall to me.

I do know for a fact though, that she is gorgeous!

Re: pc huggies?

BG CPed on 2/03/02 at 17:51 (072472)

I hear you Elliott, I am just busting chops here. There are a few ski forums as well. A person will ask a question about ski boot orthotics, or good boot fitters. Invariably there will be some John Q Skier jump in and say Joe Smith at shop xyz is the best, he did, blbahablahb then give the phone number, hours even comment on his personality. Last year there was a big rash of it, it was traced to a large chain of shops that had a few employees that were doing it, VERY dishonest. Real bad part was when a legit poster would recommend another guy they would slam him like they were a customer.
I see you are a cyclist,one of my co-workers had me read an article about the shimano cantable shoe. They had a Phd that helped design it. In the magazine article they either quoted him wrong or he was wrong but he stated that for medial knee pain you increse medial wedge. If it is o/a or meniscus tear causing the pain you will make it worse not better by doing that. Have you read anything about that shoe? I have done some work on cyclist in the past, just wondered what your thoughts on that shoe were