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THINKING OF YOU, ELLIOTT!!!

Posted by elliott on 2/15/02 at 11:56 (073789)

I've never gotten one of those coveted 'Thinking of You' posts on the Social Board (not that I really want one). So I says to myself, I says, let me give myself one and see how it feels. :-) Not too good. :-)

I was wondering if we could have a discussion here about these boards. They are set up to be something really special. But it is what is lacking that I wanted to talk about. In particular, I feel there is way too much emotional support stuff (sometimes the same exact stuff repeated on just about every board) and not nearly enough exchange of useful information. Sure, I understand the support stuff is important, and can help one to cope. But there is a board designated for that. So does it have to drown out the other boards too? And I constantly see people here emotionally distraught and seeking support, yet don't seem concerned enough to seek out the medical course of action they need, nor, for the most part, do they get it from those offering the support. Strange. Last I checked, emotional support did not have such a good track record curing resistant PF and TTS cases.

Sure, I know my TTS sh%t pretty good. Big deal (didn't make me any better anyway). But I don't want to be the only one asked everything. You could find out stuff too with a little effort. Maybe help me learn stuff too. Same thing with PF. And the poor docs, whose valuable time is probably more limited than any of ours, cannot be expected to answer everything always. Spend a little less time with all that support stuff, do a little research. Share your experiences. Exchange information. Make these boards what they can be.

And then there's the humor side of things. I view humor as facilitating the useful exchange of otherwise dry information. To that end, and given the inherent nature of the Web, a looser writing style is more appropriate in such a milieu. It is what I've seen on other sites. For example, check out this recent thread on a cycling forum:

http://forums.consumerreview.com/crforum?(email removed)ap7bhct^7@.ef67609

(In case you have trouble understanding, Shimano is a major producer of bike components, Dura Ace is their very expensive top-of-the-line gear component package, TDF means Tour De France, Eddie Merckx is a onetime cycling great, and LBS stands for local bike shop.)

Did you at least chuckle? I hope so. Sure, there's differences between a cycling crowd and a pain crowd, but you may want to ask yourself why I learn a lot more about even esoteric aspects of cycling on that forum than I do about pain on this one.

Anyway, contrast the writing style there with this crowd, which is for the most part about as tight as it gets. The slightest thing and they get offended. There goes horrible insensitive elliott again. Well, other forums aren't like that. And I'm a package deal. I'd like to talk pain, but I'm keeping my sense of humor, even if if I don't conform to the ridiculously boring PC standard around here, even if I'm not winning friends. It's not that I want to offend anyone. My life's a wreck too; I know what this is all about. But if someone says, 'I thought TTS stands for Tough, Tough Sh&t,' I'll laugh rather than be offended. There's a few wilder spirits here (e.g. Carmen, Carole) who just accept me for what I am rather than falling apart.

So maybe we can talk this out. More info, a bit more humor and looser writing style to facilitate it, less support where it doesn't belong. Can anyone unshackle their PC mouthpieces. I hope this isn't a board against me discussion. I may not see your responses for a while. I've been busy lately: ortho, pod, going off now for a PT consult; it never ends. I'll check back later.

---

Re: THINKING OF YOU, ELLIOTT!!!

Carole C in NOLA on 2/15/02 at 12:32 (073792)

Elliott,

We are thinking of you whether you like it or not! (grin) The recent thread about you just below this one is tribute to that sentiment. I hope your recent brief absence did not signify that you are feeling more pain.

A lot of people here have exchanged good and useful information with me. The same information probably doesn't happen to be very useful to you, that's all. If you do not feel like you are getting enough, maybe you should ask more questions and ask for help more when you want it! I do not know what type of information you are lacking. There may not BE anybody here on this message board that knows the information or answers you seek. Still, it might work best to keep asking until the right person reads and responds.

Personally I usually try to go light on the humor aspects because humor is so often misunderstood on message boards (due to the lack of facial expression and body language). Besides, even in real life my sense of humor doesn't appeal to most.

That thread on the cycling forum was one that I'd probably skip, just sort of a battle of the sexes type topic (?). What did you like best about it?

Carole C

Re: THINKING OF YOU, ELLIOTT!!!

D.Thomas on 2/15/02 at 13:47 (073799)

Actually,

I tend to like the board this way. I have been on the BBS and Internet map for quite some time and have been with numerous other message boards in one form or another and for me this board is hands down the best. Not just becuase we share PF and TTS, but because the people here get along pretty damn well and truly care about one another.

I can't stand the other boards where people try and control other people on what they should say and do to meet what they think is right. Or the boards that just become flame boards. Everybody just flaming one another. Everyone here tends to accept everyone here without judging the other. In my opinion, this is very rare group on the Internet and I do not take it for granted.

Re: THINKING OF YOU, ELLIOTT!!!

wendyn on 2/15/02 at 13:57 (073800)

I think that you should post however you want.

But that you should quit worrying about how everyone else posts.

Number one rule - you can't change people.

Re: To Elliott

Pauline on 2/15/02 at 15:17 (073805)

Elliott,
I have to agree with you in many respects and admire your courage to speak out on what could be a very sensitive topic. The one thing not taken into account, however, is that the people posting on this board, perhaps more so than on others have truly bonded and become a family.

Like other families it consists of as many different personalities as there are members and just like a family you find them offering support and advice, and encouragement to members in need.

I also think you will find the sensitivity higher here than on other boards because people are dealing with pain. Outside of the few people who have actually met each other it is very difficult to guage the type of interplay that would be considered acceptable by all of the posters. Because of this, I think you find people trying to be cautious and sensitive to the needs of all who post.

These things not bad but one fact that you point out, there being too much emotional stuff and not enough factual substance is one that could be examined. As you say, there is a board for just those types of things and therefore there is no need for it to spill out into other boards. This is something that could be corrected if the people posting choose to take that course.

Providing a more substantive dialog should also be easy and we should not come to expect that you continue to provide all the answers for us. We are all capable of doing some research, asking questions and drawing on the experiences of many people. Time at the library can be time well spent as you point out.

I could be totally wrong, but I basically think I hear you saying you've had enough mothering and would like to communicate on various foot topics on a higher level with everyone contributing. I also think I hear you saying a little humor is part of any healing process, and with this I also agree as long as the humor isn't at the expense of one of the people posting. Additionally, I also sense a frustration with the fact that although you see people seeking advice they may not follow through with any actual course of action.

If what I'm hearing is correct, all I can say is do not become disheartened because everyone posting here is different and all have different needs. We can't begin to provide those that post with the cures they are seeking, but we can provide substantive information, advice, support and encouragement which is all good, but we can also send the wrong message and become enablers and this is not good for us or the person seeking help.

We cannot force a person to take action in any direction we offer, the best we can do is hope that they will find the strength from our encouragement to activate a course of action. After that, we can only pray and not allow them to become totally dependent on us, for if left to suckle here they may never receive the help they truly need.

Re: THINKING OF YOU, ELLIOTT!!!

Suzanne D on 2/15/02 at 15:17 (073806)

I've written more than once about how much I appreciate each individual on this board, how much I've learned from everyone, and how I treasure the differences among us, so I won't elaborate on that.

It probably would be easier to follow the boards if we (me included) kept the social/support issues on this board and kept the other issues neatly in their categories on each of the other boards. But then we all are 'package deals' as you so well put it, and sometimes we overlap, I think. Just in my way of thinking, people are more important than keeping things neatly organized (You could tell that by looking at my house!:-)), so if someone needs support on another board, I try to help if I can. But as I learn, I am trying to give information, too, because I know we HAVE to have more than good thoughts to get well.

I probably AM boring in my writing style, but it is me, and I guess I hope others will allow me my differences as I do the same for them. While I read about the hippies and the excitement of my growing up years, I was at home in my little town, doing my homework, and going to 4-H and church events. I guess I have always been boring to some standards! :-)

But I think you know I accept you for who you are and never fall apart at what you or anyone else writes. And I am 'thinking of you', boring as that may seem :-), and I wish you well in your quest for better health and recovery.

Re: ELLIOTT!!! control issues?

Tammie on 2/15/02 at 17:10 (073814)

Dear Elliott, I am very sorry that you feel this way, you must be suffering imensley. As u know I can't spell or type , as well many other things. So forgive this for the moment! I don't really know what it is that I want to say, but I am really going to try. I feel as tho some or all may be directed in my direction. I do not wish others to take the rap so to speak.

You know that you have extordinary knowledge with thease feet troubles. Sometimes it seems even more then the dr.s seem to be able to provide. They also seem to look to u as many are directed to you for knowldge. I cannot speak for anyone but myself, I am a bit uneducated in ways to do things easily. The computor is a big machine with many features that I for one am still learning how to use. I am the one who is afraid to try new things, make changes in my life .Ilike a smoothe run. I have never worried about myself or my health or me period. I have always been a caregiver in all that I do. I wish I could explain myself to you, I am a very complex person, I have had a full life for a woman my age, with alot of grief. This does not excuse me from anything I want to say. But I believe the reason I sometimes find it VERY difficult to take care of my self. I am not sure you will understand this , I think that having thease foot troubles ,has been a eye opener.I have ALWAYS had control over my body and my life from late teens till now. This has been a devistation to me and my life. I have struggled each day each time that a change has occured in this feet issue.

I have fought so hard to ignore it or denie it ,that I have forgotten HOW to help myself. I have never trusted my self in taking care of me there was a time i couldnt and that has remained with me.I can and do take care of everyone else, but never think of me.This is new, I am frightened as this has been much longer and ungiving then anything I have expieranced in my health and life. This also has shown me that i am not imortal so to speak. I am a frightened woman often very alone searching for someone to fix me so that I don't have to think about me. I want that old feeling back that i am invinceable. My family sees me as the strong one, little do they know I am quivering in fear.I have been trying a bit harder to DO something to help MYSELF , maybe not what U want me to do . But a start. I MADE the appt to see a dr. all by myself, he promised me the mri that u said was so important and a start to take with me.

It was the dr. who would not do this as he had his ideas. He is the one with the degree as he told me, He is the one with the special knowledge to dx me.. How should I know if he is right or wrong? Who DO I trust? I was devestated when I went and he told me this. I panic I wanted to just die or cut my limb off myself. I have a feeling you understand this feeling. I paniced and came here where it is safe and know that there would be answers or advice to set me straight! And yes also keep my head on right and not allow me to do anything foolish . I am sorry that I upset you. There is more to feet then the feet there is the heart and the soul my friend. We are uniqe in human beings each of us express and live in a different way. I have Always been in charge the one to not panic. Now I panic because I am not strong any longer. I am out of control with myself. Also I do try to research, in fact i have doone massive research on this rsd stuff. Thankfully some loving friends cared enough to point me in the direction of sites. If I am distressing u then dont look at my posts. I am extreamly sorry, I look to your posts as they are full of knowledge. I look to others if I need support and direction in my life. Maybe I am selfish but for this time in my life I have to be to survive, do U remember this feeling? Humor for me is not funny I am sorry, pain rules my life and I do not feel like doing to much laughing unless it is at myself. That is safe. I will chill a bit but I must say again I am grateful to all the loving support I have had.If it had not been given I ight not have been here today to say I am sorry. Simple as that. I am sorry that I am weak. But I understand what you are feeling to , no control to make ME do what u think i should. It is hard when you lose control isint it? In all cases I do appreciate you. Gosh I am in trouble this is very long. Please accept each of us as we are, as well as we accept you.As this is what makes a board special and useful even if you do not want the support. If and when I get in control of ME again I hope to be able to reach out to others,for the moment I have to reach out for help.I am learning about how to take cre of myself.But being a father & husband, you should understand the unselfishness of taking care of others first and forgetting what you might need. I am that way.

Re: THINKING OF YOU, ELLIOTT!!!

John h on 2/15/02 at 18:42 (073820)

Hey Wendy: I have changed several times in my life. Currently I am back where I started (Mr. Hyde).

Re: THINKING OF YOU, ELLIOTT!!!

Laurie R on 2/15/02 at 18:58 (073822)

Hi Elloitt , You have a right to your opinion and so do I . To me this sounds like you want everyone to post like you , well my friend we are all different with different needs .... You have much to offer . If you don't like something or if it is to supportive for you don't read it ...

I happen to love the great support I have gotten here. Not everyone is as smart as you ... I have appreciated all you have done here...I posted a question to you and a few others on the treatment board , everyone else gave me their advise , but you did not. That is ok if you don't want to help me , I don't take it personal .

Some of us like and need the support , if we end a post with 'much love ' or hugs , I see nothing wrong with it ... If you do , like I said don't read it .

It seems like you want this board and everyone on it just like you. Well sorry we are all not like you , that is what makes this board so cool.

Just my opinion on your post .....

Laurie R

Re: ELLIOTT!!! control issues?RE Tammie

Laurie R on 2/15/02 at 19:01 (073823)

Dear Tammie , Now this is just my opinion , but you have nothing at all to be sorry about ..... I don't want to fight with anyone here at all ... You can write any way you want , also if you get the support you need here , don't change for anyone . Be yourself , I love your post , you have always been so wonderful to everyone . I need people like you in my life and I am so glad you and I have become friends .. I feel very blessed to have met you ... I am here to help you in anyway I can ....

Much love to you always , Laurie R

Re: THINKING OF YOU, ELLIOTT!!!

Nancy N on 2/15/02 at 20:01 (073828)

Elliott--

Maybe I shouldn't jump in here, because I haven't been following the board in detail lately. But this is not the first time you have made this kind of plea, and frankly, 'shouldn't' has never been much of a deterrent for me.

Like others here, I appreciate your knowledge. I personally benefitted from the discussion about exercise balls a few weeks ago. Knowledge is a terrible thing to waste. But it's also a terrible thing to lord over people.

Now, before anyone jumps down my throat, let me clarify. You say that there's not enough discussion of treatments. You say that there are too many people who won't do their own homework. But you seem to be forgetting that there are new people who come to this site every day, who have just been diagnosed and are in a panic, desperately seeking something that will help them. Yes, in a perfect world they should read the PF book before they post. But surely you have, at some point in your life, been in a similar situation and been so upset and frantic that you didn't read all the small print, such as the print on the board index that says 'Read the PF book before posting'? You're as human as the rest of us--I certainly didn't read the whole book before posting the first time, because I had just had my first FDA study OrthoWave treatment and felt worse than when I went in, and was absolutely terrified. Should I be taken out and flogged for not doing my own homework first? Frankly, that's what I thought I was doing when I posted, and that's also how I discovered a very supportive, informative, and helpful community.

(And as for the 'emotional' stuff, as you put it, can you honestly say that you have not been upset or even depressed over your PF? I know I was, and I don't ever want to go back there again. When people are in pain, and feel desperate, panicked, depressed, or any number of other emotions, I don't think we can honestly expect them to adhere to a bunch of guidelines within their posts--just as we can't completely separate our emotional sides from our logical sides. Let's be reasonable, we are all these things all the time.)

I know that the PF book is a great repository of information. I know that there are other sites out there (though none as good as this one, I hasten to add). But I also know that there are a finite number of PF treatments. Does that mean that every single one of them should be written up in a 'book' for people to read? That would all but eliminate the need for the boards altogether, except perhaps for the Social board.

Even if we didn't go that far, it's not fair to blame others for a perceived lack of discussion of 'serious' topics unless you have actively attempted to get such discussions going--and by that I mean posting questions, posting information you have found, and inviting people's comments. I do not mean posts that say 'We don't discuss this stuff enough.' If we're not discussing something you think we should be, it's your responsibility to raise the topic.

And lastly, it's not fair to compare one community to another--it's the old apples vs. oranges business. As a high-school teacher I can tell you beyond all shadow of doubt that no two groups have the same dynamic, because no two groups contain the same combination of personalities. It's especially unfair to say 'Take me as I am, I'm not going to change,' while you're asking others to change instead.

I don't mean this as an attack, I'm just pointing out the things I see. I suppose you can vilify me if you want, I got used to that a few months ago and today I am not in the mood to care. I call it as I see it, just as you do, so we should be able to respect each other. If not, well, I tried.

Re: Helloooooo Elliott!!!!!!

Carmen H on 2/15/02 at 20:19 (073832)

Hey ...I am not going to post a load here but I am going to say what works for me.
'Take what you want and leave the rest'
The only way to stay sane in an opinionated world.
I hear you Elliott....loud and clear....
Being who each one of us is makes this board unique...and whaether you like it or not you add to it my friend.
If you don't believe me just read YOUR post....;-)

Re: Scott, any way to reconfigure the "search" feature

BrianG on 2/15/02 at 21:02 (073835)

Just throwing my 2 or 3 cents in here. I think the emotional support for a lot of posters is most important. There are times that I would like to see people, both new and old, use the search feature more. Unfortunatly I find it is not user friendly. I go to look something up, and it takes me back a couple years, and then stops at 200 posts. If possible, I don't see why the search feature can't just use the topic names, instead of the whole posting. It wouldn't take up as much space, and would be easier to find what your looking for.

I think if 'search' was more user friendly, it's possible we wouldn't see the same questions coming up time and time again. Elliott could then take a break, and the posters could have a better understanding of the subject, before throwing out questions, and pleas for help.

Just one man's thoughts
BrianG

PS It might be good to make the letter's of the word SEARCH larger, so they will stand out more.

Re: Scott, any way to reconfigure the "search" feature

Carmen H on 2/15/02 at 21:03 (073837)

I agree!
Good point!

Re: Searching

Carole C in NOLA on 2/15/02 at 21:19 (073841)

Good point. Scott mentioned in a post a few weeks ago that he no longer reads the board due to recent time constraints, so you might want to e-mail him on this matter.

Meanwhile, if you search on something more specific you'll get fewer posts returned. For example, don't search on Birkenstocks, search on Floridas. Don't search on orthotics, search on medial post. That way you'll get fewer posts in the results.

I was really surprised when I only got a few posts on a search of 'suppinate', until I realized it's spelled 'supinate'. Then I was flooded with them. (grin)

Carole C

Re: Scott, any way to reconfigure the "search" feature

Glennx on 2/15/02 at 21:52 (073846)

Brian: Scott shared a little trick to help filter posts some weeks ago. Typing brian.+11/../01 shows just those posts in November of 2001 containing the word 'Brian.' Note the period between brian and +. There are probably other querying formats that would be helpful too, but this little trick one has been useful to me.

Re: Searching

BrianG on 2/15/02 at 21:58 (073847)

OK, I forwarded it off to Scott, thanks....B

Re: Easier, not harder

BrianG on 2/15/02 at 22:15 (073849)

I remember Scott mentioning something about this little 'code'. I'm sorry, but it's just too complicated for me, or probably 90% of the other people using search. I'm talking about making search 'User Friendly' !!

BrianG

PS Glenn, your not a programer, are you :*)
PPS This code only works when you know the date your looking for. Dates are not how I remember things. I remember them by the key words that were used. You have to remember, we are chronic painers, and some of us taking some pretty powerful meds. Easier is better !!

Re: Social support is a vital part of the Board

Beverly on 2/15/02 at 22:28 (073850)

I've been here two years... from early stage PF through bad PF through a myraid of ankle problems. I've learned many valuable treatment ideas here.
This does not mean I tried them all. Some did not sound wise for me. Some were helpful and I tried them. Some seemed harmless and couldn't hurt trying, ect...

But what has kept me here are the friends I have made on this Board. It is the emotional support I needed most... especially as time passed and it became harder to learn something new that my numerous doctors, PT's, and time reading this Board had not already been offered.

The Board is well divided into catagories. I think that for the most part, we do a good job staying within the catagories.
Beverly

Re: Easier, not harder

Julie on 2/16/02 at 03:17 (073860)

I feel that the most useful way to make the Search facility more user-friendly would be to reverse the order of the posts, so that the 200 posts that a search turns up are the most recent ones, not the oldest. But this has been suggested before, and Scott has said that an enormous amount of work would be involved in making that change - more than he has time to do.

Re: To Tammie

Julie on 2/16/02 at 08:56 (073873)

Tammie, I don't think Elliott was getting at you more than at anyone else; his post was meant for us all (or at least for most of us). You've no reason to be upset, so please try not to be. It's important right now that you keep as calm as you can, so that you can think clearly about your next steps. So don't add unnecessarily to your difficulties.

Elliott has a lot of valuable knowledge, and has often shared it fully and kindly with others, including yourself, but I don't think he realizes how uncomfortable his sometimes biting criticisms of the way others express themselves can make people. I would be terribly sorry if those whose strength is their open-hearted capacity to feel the pain of others and give support were now discouraged from writing and feeling as is natural to them. (On whatever board: threads develop as they develop, and can't always be neatly controlled). We're all different, and each of us has his or her own special contribution to make here. For example, the compassion that you unfailingly show to others is greatly valued here: I'm sure you know that.

By the way, I said that I thought I could help you with learning to relax, and I've been expecting an email from you. Do get in touch.

Re: Search rules

Glennx on 2/16/02 at 11:17 (073885)

Brian: I agree. This is not a particularly friendly way to search. I had to test it several times to get the formatting right, and still am not sure I understand the coding.

It works for things other than dates. Here are two 'rules' I think work for searching heelspurs.

1. Period plus (.+) combines words in a search, without their having to be next to each other
2. period period (..) limits search results to a date range (.. is like a wildcard)

Example 1. Put a period and a plus sign (.+) between ALL the keywords you want to see in the posts you're interested in. Searching on:

stretching.+dorsiflexion.+angle

would show only those posts that include all three of these words. They don't have to be in this order, or next to each other. That can narrow things a lot.

Example 2. Use two periods when you want to narrow your search by dates, say to more recent posts. Searching on:

stretching.+../../01.+careful

would show only those posts that contain both 'stretching' and 'careful' and were posted in 2001. We're using the (..) wildcard for month AND for day, meaning we want to see ANY month and ANY day, but just the year 01. (Note that we're still putting a period and a plus sign (.+) between everything we want to combine.

Again, I haven't tested all of the variations possible with these 'rules.' But a little experimentation can make them a little more familia,r and they may help some. And there might be other rules.

No, I am not a programmer, though I've done a fair amount of design and use work with 'front-end' databases such as Filemaker and Access. Even so, I still had to struggle with the heelspurs code.

One other quirk I've noticed is that searches don't always pick up real recent posts. Scott may have to occasionally 'archive' posts (or something) to make them searchable. Not sure.

Even this wordy 'explanation' is far from user-friendly; and if this still doesn't seem to work, leave me a post describing some keywords you might like to search on. I'll be happy to give it a try.

Re: Easier, not harder

Glennx on 2/16/02 at 11:25 (073886)

Hey Julie: I've struggled with 'old' posts too. Buried in my 'search rules' post is a workaround. On the chance you don't see it . . .

Use two periods when you want to narrow your search by dates, say to more recent posts. Searching on:

stretching.+../../01.+careful

would show only those posts that contain both 'stretching' and 'careful' and were posted in 2001. We're using the (..) wildcard for month AND for day, meaning we want to see ANY month and ANY day, but just the year 01. (Note that we're still putting a period and a plus sign (.+) between everything we want to combine.

I've sometimes just worked my way backwards with this technique to get at the posts I'm interested in.

Re: Easier, not harder

Julie on 2/16/02 at 11:39 (073889)

Thanks Glenn. Sounds complicated, but workable. I'll try it.

Re: John

wendyn on 2/16/02 at 11:52 (073891)

John - you're right - people CAN change.

But I don't think you can change THEM.

People make changes in their life, when and if they choose to do so.

Re: Suzanne

Julie on 2/16/02 at 12:49 (073894)

No, Suzanne, you are not boring: not you, and not your writing style.

I don't think you were the target of that particular remark, but that's what happens when a blanket barbed criticism is made: someone will always take it to heart. It's totally out of order, not to mention unkind, for anyone here to suggest that anyone else here is boring.

Re: I tried it and encouraging angle of dorsiflexion

Carole C in NOLA on 2/16/02 at 13:37 (073900)

I tried it just now, and searched on two of the words Glenn used: dorsiflexion and angle.

Interestingly, although I found a few posts in which people were reporting abysmally insufficient angles of dorsiflexion, and some in which they reported vague improvement in their dorsiflexion, I didn't notice any posts quantifying what an adequate/normal/humdrum angle of dorsiflexion would be. Mine is somewhere between 12-15 degrees from the horizontal when I sit with my lower leg vertical and measure how far I can lift my foot by dorsiflexing with the heel still touching the floor. That was much more than others have reported here in the past! I'm healing so fast. :)

Carole C

Re: Suzanne

Suzanne D on 2/16/02 at 14:13 (073910)

Thanks, Julie. I guess I might be considered too sensitive as I take most things to heart. Of course my 'package deal' includes the fact that most days do not go by without my being criticized or sharply spoken to at home; but that's another complex issue more difficult for me even than PF and not one that I expect any help with here. It's just that it's a part of my life and makes me rather vulnerable. I try to treat each and every person as I would like to be treated, whether they treat me that way or not. It's the only way I have peace.

The people on this site have been very good to me, and for that I will be everlastingly grateful. And I do feel that I am boring sometimes with all my first grade stories, but I share who I am, and that is all I have to share.

God bless us every one. :-)

Re: Search rules

BrianG on 2/16/02 at 14:18 (073912)

Thats OK Glenn, I don't have anything at the moment that I need to look for. I'm just thinking about what would be best for the majority of the people. If 'search' is too much of a pain in the butt, people won't use it.

Laters
BrianG

Re: Suzanne

Carole C in NOLA on 2/16/02 at 14:25 (073913)

Suzanne, your first grade stories are fascinating, not boring! I am so sad to hear that such a wonderful person as you would be criticized or sharply spoken to ever, much less on a daily basis. You do not deserve that any more than you deserve foot pain, which you don't; as far as I can tell you are an intelligent, hard working, giving, sweet, and beautiful person.

Carole C

Re: Suzanne

nancy s. on 2/16/02 at 17:17 (073925)

hi suzanne, i've been busy and haven't been able to post much lately, but i want to wholeheartedly second julie's post to you.
i also want to ask you not to let ANYONE make you believe you're 'too' sensitive. people who take things to heart do have sensitivity, and it's something much needed in this world -- it can make you more sensitive to what others are going through, and i think there's 'too' little ability on the part of some people to empathize with others in this fast-paced, competitive, 'only I count' world.
i do think it's great to have a variety of personalities in our lives and on this board -- and the variety works best when one certain kind of personality isn't trying to make everyone else conform to his own style. how boring would that be! duh!
you're not 'too' sensitive. you're just sensitive, and it's a multi-faceted and welcome quality.
nancy

Re: Suzanne

Julie on 2/16/02 at 17:29 (073926)

Nancy has just taken the words right out of my mouth. You're certainly NOT 'too sensitive', Suzanne. You're open, perceptive, innately considerate, and very down to earth, and you have a great ability to empathize with a variety of people and their problems. All this comes from being sensitive, and I absolutely agree with Nancy that that is a wonderful quality - and there's no 'too' about it.

And now I'm off to bed. Enjoy the rest of your evening, everyone - it's getting on for my morning.

Re: Suzanne

Shelley G on 2/16/02 at 17:35 (073927)

Hi, Suzanne. As I once told the pastor I worked for/with...'It's not a sin, a crime or a weakness to have a gentle, sensitive spirit.' Just to let you know, I wasn't aiming that statement at him personally! :+)

Re: easy for you to say

elliott on 2/16/02 at 19:41 (073938)

It's not your humor others are jumping on.

Can you answer a question for me? Is there too much emotional stuff on these boards for your taste? Honest, now.

--

Re: very eloquent (nm)

elliott on 2/16/02 at 19:41 (073939)

.

Re: no, not thinking of you

elliott on 2/16/02 at 19:47 (073941)

just THINKING OF YOU!! (in the good sense).

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Re: LOL! kind words from you indeed!

elliott on 2/16/02 at 19:57 (073942)

I didn't say anyone was boring. I said there is a boring PC *standard* here. That is what I said. I stand by that. I don't think it's totally out of order or so unkind to say so. I wonder if any others might view it as out of order for you to suggest I'm out of order. :-)

---

Re: Elliott -

wendyn on 2/16/02 at 20:44 (073943)

All your responses are at the bottom of the thread - it makes it difficult to tell who you are addressing your questions to.

Can you put a name in front when you're directing at one person?

Re: LOL! kind words from you indeed!

Nancy N on 2/16/02 at 20:44 (073944)

You know, Elliott, I don't get this 'PC standard' thing you keep talking about. Since when is being nice and treating each other with respect a 'boring PC standard?' And if it has to do with your perceived lack of a sense of humor on this board, I suggest you do a search on 'Huey Lewi' and see what you find. This is one community that is NOT lacking a funny bone.

Re: Humor

wendyn on 2/16/02 at 20:49 (073945)

Since I can't tell who you're humor question is directed at, I'll answer it.

Elliott - if there is too much emotional stuff for me - I just go by it. It is not a big deal. For me. I'm not a real huggy feely person - but people who are do not upset me.

I also find it's getting rather boring for me personally, that you continue to try to dictate how everyone else should feel and behave.

Any chance you could move on to something different?

Re: easy for you to say

wendyn on 2/16/02 at 20:50 (073946)

Ah - I see now - I have trouble with who things are directed at because I read the threads backwards. My apologies....

It's still easier if you add a name in thought...

Re: easy for you to say

nancy s. on 2/16/02 at 21:08 (073949)

wendy, it's hard to comprehend without a name when you're reading forwards, too. you may walk like a duck, but your brain does just fine.
your request may be too pc or too humorless or too sensitive, though, so don't get your hopes up.
goodnight now. i'm too tired and had too good a day and ate too much stew and my hair is too tangled and my socks are too black and i'm in too good a mood, so i'm going to get too much sleep.
nancy

Re: LOL! kind words from you indeed!

Nancy N on 2/16/02 at 21:30 (073951)

You know, Elliott, I don't get this 'PC standard' thing you keep talking about. Since when is being nice and treating each other with respect a 'boring PC standard?' And if it has to do with your perceived lack of a sense of humor on this board, I suggest you do a search on 'Huey Lewi' and see what you find. This is one community that is NOT lacking a funny bone.

Re: no, I don't want everyone to be just like me

elliott on 2/16/02 at 22:00 (073954)

There'd be too much chaos around here. :-) But I think it's sad when too many others seem to be too alike. And I will give you an example of exactly what I mean. Why, after months of support for her but with Tammie still drifting in pain, with visible swelling no less, and without medical attention, did it have to be me to be the only one to scream at her to get an MRI and see a competent doc? Mindboggling. And then when she comes on distraught that the doctor she finally got to see didn't treat her nice and dismissed her complaints, the vast majority came on to give her just emotional support as always (well, she needed it), and on just about every board, including the non-Support ones (well, she posted on just about every board). But there were hardly any posts telling her these things happen, try and get over it, and that the important thing is to see another doc who can help her get a diagnosis long overdue. A few did get around to saying something along those lines and discussed RSD, but by far it was mainly emotional support as always. I don't think a single poster on any board told her she must also try and find out if she still has TTS which, given her unusual TTS surgery, is still a real possibility. Amazing.

She doesn't really want to hear such advice from a member of the Evil Empire, even if she invokes his name. She really needs to hear it from her shining lights, her kind, sensitive hero(ine)s who've always been there for her. And I thought that advice was glaringly missing, as it often is. Again, all those hugs are only gonna go so far. I'm not trying to sound mean or tell anyone what they have to post; on the contrary, my intentions are sincere. Too little commonsense advice from a vast number of supportive posters, IMHO indicative of some of the shortcomings I perceive here but which are considered too taboo for any sensitive human being to mention.

Regarding your post on the treatment board, you say, 'everyone else gave me their advise , but you did not. That is ok if you don't want to help me , I don't take it personal.'

Sounds like you already did. :-) Like I once said, I think about you and the suffering you go through often. But by the time I got around to that thread, others had already given you great advice, e.g. keeping copies of everything, and having your history typed out on a single page so the doc can quickly get a summary of your case. The only thing I was contemplating adding was to post a copy of my own single page I just used recently which I thought might be of help for you to use as a guideline to construct your own, but I decided against it because I just don't want everyone to read my history, nor do I wish to give out my email address. I'm sorry.

--

Re: no need to tell me twice :-) (nm)

elliott on 2/16/02 at 22:02 (073955)

.

Re: ATTN wendyn and nancy s: good night!

elliott on 2/16/02 at 22:27 (073958)

And nancy s, it would've helped to mention wendyn in your post title. :-)

--

Re: Hey Wendy and Nancy re mysterious responses

Julie on 2/17/02 at 03:27 (073970)

You can figure out who a poster is responding by looking at the index. The responses themselves show up in order of posting, so a new one always goes to the bottom, but in the index its title appears below the post to which it is a response. You're quite right, though: it facilitates identification if a name is used (or if the responder sticks to the original poster's title so the two can be matched up).

I'm not trying to dictate proper posting technique, though: heaven forbid!

Re: Elliott

Julie on 2/17/02 at 04:36 (073972)

It is not true that Tammie received 'hardly any posts telling her these things happen, try and get over it, and that the important thing is to see another doc who can help her get a diagnosis long overdue'. Several posts - Suzanne's, Dr Z's, Shelley's, Laurie's, Janet's and mine - told her exactly that. In different ways, because we're all different.

Tammie's 'kind, sensitive heroines', as you call them/us, have been concerned about her for many months, and have consistently counselled her for months, here and in emails, to get second and third opinions, to actively seek the help she needs elsewhere. You have given her as much support as anyone (yes, information and hard truths are supportive too) but you are certainly not 'the only one'.

Tammie was grateful to you for 'telling it like it is' the other day, and she said so. She does not regard you as a 'member of the Evil Empire', but as a friend with her interest at heart. (I'm speaking for her intentionally, to try and save her writing a long, emotional post telling you this herself: she doesn't need to do that, she needs to calm down and think about what she is going to do next.) I think everyone thought you did the right thing, and that it was brave of you to do it. And it will probably have the right effect once the poor girl has got over the shock of this recent unfortunate doctor visit.

You did a good job. So don't spoil it all by remonstrating with her for not immediately getting on her horse and finding another doctor. She'll do it, but the more upset she is, the longer it will take.

Re: Re

elliott on 2/17/02 at 09:35 (073976)

As long as you're going to the trouble of changing the post title, in future you may want to consider deleting the superfluous 'Re:'.

I'm not trying to dictate proper posting technique, though: heaven forbid!

Re: Too bad Elliott never responds to MY questions back to him.

wendyn on 2/17/02 at 10:41 (073979)

I'm hurt.

I was another one who posted a factual post back to Tammie - asking her about her next doctors appointment, and explaining what I know about RSD. But alas, in the end there was an insufficient quota of factual posts vs support posts, and I for one missed the memo indicating the new 'Ratio Required To Keep Elliott Quiet'.

In my often not so humble opinion - whether or not she has, had, or still has TTS is secondary. TTS does not spread. RSD does. Maybe you are still too hung up on the TTS diagnosis because RSD is beyond the scope of the things you know well? Just a thought.

Regardless, I still think most of your behaviour here is not in the best interest of yourself or the board. I think you're uninterested in discussing anything by email off the board - and I'm guessing that it's because it wouldn't generate enough attention for you- it would just be a plain old boring debate or discussion.

Finally, I'd really think more of you if you would lay off going after people on the board who are in too much pain or distress to have the energy to justify their continued existence to you.

Pick on someone your own size.

Re: Nancy

wendyn on 2/17/02 at 11:03 (073986)

That's funny Nancy - I can't remember if I mentioned it here or not...a few friends and I went to a new night club recently.

By the time we left, we had concluded that it was

Too crowded
Too smokey
Too loud
Too late

and that we were just

Too old!

Re: To Elliott no, I don't want everyone to be just like me

Pauline on 2/17/02 at 12:21 (073997)

Elliott,
The points you made have been heard, but are just not being well received. The one thing that I think you keep forgetting is the fact that you, I or anyone posting on this site have NO POWER, to change anyone else.

You can post and offer all the advice you want and scream as often and as loud as you want the answer you think is best, but the fact still remains is the only person in charge of their body is the person who's body it is.
They have the final say and decision if they want to move into a course of action or are simply satisfied with conditions as they are.

The only way you can invoke change is to change yourself, and I think you know this. So instead of continuing to feed people advice which you feel they are not taking, and allowing them to becomming dependent on you, why not simply reply when asked for advice ' I think Your health issues have grown to such an extent I would be putting your health at risk if, as a layman, I continue to provide information that should really come from a medical professional' or something similar. Providing this type of answer you must realize is will require practice, because most people are conditioned to follow the same more comfortable paths they have been down before.

But, this way you no longer need to feel put-upon nor frustrated, because you've removed yourself from the equation. As long as you continue to be involved or allow others to involve you in a situation which is going no where, you will continue to get the same result.

You cannot expect others to change to meet your expectations, but you have the power to change the degree to which you are willing to get involved. By varying your involvment you stop the mothering, gain back the control in your life which you are seeking, eliminate dependency of others on you, and stop the frustration you are feeling because other posters havent reacted to the advice you offered. Life is good again, unless you too
really are not seeking a solution to the problems you want other to correct.

Re: easy for you to say

John h on 2/17/02 at 12:52 (074002)

there is a lot of emotional stuff elliott but for many people that helps and for many that is all they have to hang on to. for my part they can emotionalize all they want. i may not throw it out there like some but when my feet were at their worst i sure wanted to but caught up in that big boys don' cry syndrome.

Re: Pauline

wendyn on 2/17/02 at 17:37 (074037)

Pauline, you and I have had differences of opinion in the past - but despite the fact we haven't always agreed - I have tremendous respect for your ideas, and the way you treat people (even when you don't agree with them).

I sure like you.

Re: ATTN wendyn and nancy s: good night!

nancy s. on 2/17/02 at 18:12 (074043)

elliott, i don't necessarily need a name in the post title. (i guess this replies to julie's post to me about this also.) as long as there's a name some damn place in the post, i have some context for it.

i read the board by using the 'view all message since last visit' thingy. so i'm reading a whole list of often unrelated posts, and i'd like to know who they're to so i know what they're about, without having to go to the specific board and look it all up. i try to read everything, but i don't have time to go to each board and examine each thread, trying to find a post i read in the 'view all' list in order to understand its context.

i don't know if this is coherent at the moment -- because i've had too long a day and am trying too hard to unwind (john h, do you catch my drift?), and my brain is too happy but too foggy, and as wendy says i'm too old also (tonight only).
nancy

Re: wendyn

elliott on 2/17/02 at 21:52 (074074)

Even by my standards, I thought your tone was rather strident.

Completely disagree about TTS being secondary, especially with the unusual surgery that transpired. Not that RSD is a certainty yet either. One can go to random doctors for RSD and get random evaluations, or one can go to a doc with great TTS experience who not only knows TTS but has seen loads of failed surgical cases resulting in RSD and who knows how to diagnose it and treat it or at least refer to the doc that does. Regardless, no one ever said to wait a long time before seeing a doctor and allow something possibly to spread.

For such a smart lady, it's amazing how you continue to misread what I'm all about, not that I'll spill all the beans to correct you. Regarding email, there's both a time and a stress issue I just don't want to deal with (such correspondence, once started, seems to take on a life of its own). And I'm the type to be close friends with just one or two rather than the whole world. I keep an email conversation with a woman who once visited this board and who no longer posts nor visits here. Probably because she is a sufferer, she understands heel pain better than my wife (who is great to me). We're from very different backgrounds, yet it's a match, however these things happen. We talk a lot about other things too (but not about these boards at all), about life in general and of course how our feet affect it. Call that my heel pain social needs. I honestly don't want private social email correspondence with anyone else; I am content with what I have, given my time constraints and desires. That's all there is to it. Nothing to do with attention-getting or lack of it. If you don't want to believe me, that's fine too. But maybe think twice before throwing out speculation about me.

TTS is an interesting and complicated beast. It's amazing how easy it is even for great docs to make a major mistake with it. They are relying on your description of pain as to whether you have TTS, whether surgery is warranted, and what type to perform. We have to be our own advocates. Read a lot, find out a lot, express yourself well, and you and your doc can be more certain you have what you think you have. As one example, come in to the doc and say, 'gee, my feet are numb' instead of saying 'the numbness started in my toes and has been moving backwards since' and the diagnosis and treatment might be very different in each case. I myself was 10 days away from a major surgery--the wrong surgery--cancelled only because my other foot blew up in pain. It is only now that I feel I know enough to likely avoid such a mistake. A focus more on a careful exchange of information about such things to prevent such tragedies from happening and increasing our chances of finding the right path to healing is what I see in a TTS board. Maybe I have a different vision of what these boards should be about, but hey, I see others do not share it and can accept that.

Not sure what questions left unanswered you're talking about. Sometimes it's better for another to have the last word even if I have something to say back; things can go too far.

Re: well, I'm beginning to wonder

elliott on 2/17/02 at 22:32 (074083)

are we selfish if we don't include some obvious reference in order to make the task of the 'view all messages' users easier?

I mainly use that feature at work because it's more expedient a method just to manage to read posts there, given my dreadfully slow computer. I also use it at home to see if there are any new posts wherever and maybe to do a find on topics of interest (e.g. 'elliott' :-)). But when I want to see the logical development of a thread, I must click on the respective board. You guys must be geniuses if you can visualize that without going to the board.

--

Re: wendyn/ elliott

nancy s. on 2/17/02 at 22:44 (074084)

just thought i'd mention that it was this website, with the people posting on it, that saved me from unnecessary EPF surgery for my plantar fasciitis. my nonthinking pod had me scheduled for it after only eight months of pf, and without trying most of the usual conservative measures first.

i got nervous about the surgery, and found and posted to this board in december 1999. three people immediately responded that 'surgery is a last resort' and 'eight months is way too soon to be considering surgery,' told me why, and offered other suggestions. one of those three people who saved me was wendy. at that time, the board was just one board, not split up into sections, and no doctors were posting here.

since that day, i've learned a million valuable pieces of information here that helped get me eventually to the 90% better point -- and received a lot of support during depression and despair -- and had more laughs than i can count -- and gained inspiration that will probably help get me through anything else difficult in the future.

i can't think of a thing lacking here.
nancy

Re: well, I'm beginning to wonder

Carole C in NOLA on 2/17/02 at 22:55 (074085)

Elliott, while the rest of us here may all be geniuses or at least gifted with outstanding insight... :)

.. I don't think that genius is responsible for our ease in reading the message board. I think that most of us do not have the difficulty you have had in accessing the individual message boards, and we simply go there and read them.

Carole C

Re: PF is baby stuff compared to TTS :-) (nm)

elliott on 2/17/02 at 23:33 (074090)

.

Re: The board in general

wendyn on 2/17/02 at 23:36 (074092)

Not only did the board save me from surgery - it also probably saved me from a very risky cortisone shot (to an already damaged post tib tendon) that may have been a huge mistake.

I got enough information and support from others that I was able to take control of my own medical care.

It also saved my sanity. Although...some would disagree....

;)

Re: easy for you to say - to John

Julie on 2/18/02 at 03:19 (074101)

John, no, you don't 'throw it out there' much, but you're always awake to what's going on for others, and you are always there on the ground with genuine sympathy, real support, and useful, factual information. That 'big boys don't cry' business is the burden of your/our generation; it comes with the territory, and unless it makes life harder for you (I hope it doesn't) it's ok. But the important thing, the really important thing, is that the REAL big boys don't make other boys or girls cry. And you're one of the real ones. No question.

Re: Suzanne

JudyS on 2/18/02 at 14:11 (074185)

Suzanne - 'Boring' is not a word I could imagine applying to you. To tell you the truth, I've enjoyed all your 'first-grade' stories both because of their exclusive content, and also because they say so much about the quality person/teacher you are. Please don't stop.

Re: easy for you to say

JudyS on 2/18/02 at 14:15 (074188)

NancyS, I sincerely hope you're in 'too good' a mood because your Nantique opening was a success? :)

Re: Re To Elliott : PF is baby stuff compared to TTS :-) (nm)

Pauline on 2/18/02 at 16:36 (074215)

And TTS is baby stuff compared to Bone Cancer, so what's your point?

Re: Re To Elliott : PF is baby stuff compared to TTS :-) (nm)

Julie on 2/18/02 at 17:22 (074235)

Right on, Pauline.

I've just spent the afternoon with my yoga class for people with cancer.

One woman is facing a mastectomy and is anxious and frightened.

Another has just had treatment for a recurrence of bladder cancer.

A third has just been told that her prognosis (already poor because her breast cancer was a stage 4) is now worse because she recently had a recurrence.

It's important to keep a sense of proportion.

Re: easy for you to say

nancy s. on 2/18/02 at 17:54 (074241)

yes, judy, nice of you to remember! the opening was wonderful in every way -- many old antiquing buddies lined up outside the door in the morning and stayed for a long time; many neighbors came, one even bringing me a gorgeous peach-colored rose, another one a cop here who loves old things (he bought an old canadian traffic signal i had, which still works); and the day was full and rich in every way (many sales too). very festive and exciting and happy. after two days of this, today i'm a zombie and mostly sleeping ... and looking forward to opening up again on thursday morning.
thanks for asking. are you still going to drive east? (hope hope hope).
n.

Re: THINKING OF YOU, ELLIOTT!!!

Carole C in NOLA on 2/15/02 at 12:32 (073792)

Elliott,

We are thinking of you whether you like it or not! (grin) The recent thread about you just below this one is tribute to that sentiment. I hope your recent brief absence did not signify that you are feeling more pain.

A lot of people here have exchanged good and useful information with me. The same information probably doesn't happen to be very useful to you, that's all. If you do not feel like you are getting enough, maybe you should ask more questions and ask for help more when you want it! I do not know what type of information you are lacking. There may not BE anybody here on this message board that knows the information or answers you seek. Still, it might work best to keep asking until the right person reads and responds.

Personally I usually try to go light on the humor aspects because humor is so often misunderstood on message boards (due to the lack of facial expression and body language). Besides, even in real life my sense of humor doesn't appeal to most.

That thread on the cycling forum was one that I'd probably skip, just sort of a battle of the sexes type topic (?). What did you like best about it?

Carole C

Re: THINKING OF YOU, ELLIOTT!!!

D.Thomas on 2/15/02 at 13:47 (073799)

Actually,

I tend to like the board this way. I have been on the BBS and Internet map for quite some time and have been with numerous other message boards in one form or another and for me this board is hands down the best. Not just becuase we share PF and TTS, but because the people here get along pretty damn well and truly care about one another.

I can't stand the other boards where people try and control other people on what they should say and do to meet what they think is right. Or the boards that just become flame boards. Everybody just flaming one another. Everyone here tends to accept everyone here without judging the other. In my opinion, this is very rare group on the Internet and I do not take it for granted.

Re: THINKING OF YOU, ELLIOTT!!!

wendyn on 2/15/02 at 13:57 (073800)

I think that you should post however you want.

But that you should quit worrying about how everyone else posts.

Number one rule - you can't change people.

Re: To Elliott

Pauline on 2/15/02 at 15:17 (073805)

Elliott,
I have to agree with you in many respects and admire your courage to speak out on what could be a very sensitive topic. The one thing not taken into account, however, is that the people posting on this board, perhaps more so than on others have truly bonded and become a family.

Like other families it consists of as many different personalities as there are members and just like a family you find them offering support and advice, and encouragement to members in need.

I also think you will find the sensitivity higher here than on other boards because people are dealing with pain. Outside of the few people who have actually met each other it is very difficult to guage the type of interplay that would be considered acceptable by all of the posters. Because of this, I think you find people trying to be cautious and sensitive to the needs of all who post.

These things not bad but one fact that you point out, there being too much emotional stuff and not enough factual substance is one that could be examined. As you say, there is a board for just those types of things and therefore there is no need for it to spill out into other boards. This is something that could be corrected if the people posting choose to take that course.

Providing a more substantive dialog should also be easy and we should not come to expect that you continue to provide all the answers for us. We are all capable of doing some research, asking questions and drawing on the experiences of many people. Time at the library can be time well spent as you point out.

I could be totally wrong, but I basically think I hear you saying you've had enough mothering and would like to communicate on various foot topics on a higher level with everyone contributing. I also think I hear you saying a little humor is part of any healing process, and with this I also agree as long as the humor isn't at the expense of one of the people posting. Additionally, I also sense a frustration with the fact that although you see people seeking advice they may not follow through with any actual course of action.

If what I'm hearing is correct, all I can say is do not become disheartened because everyone posting here is different and all have different needs. We can't begin to provide those that post with the cures they are seeking, but we can provide substantive information, advice, support and encouragement which is all good, but we can also send the wrong message and become enablers and this is not good for us or the person seeking help.

We cannot force a person to take action in any direction we offer, the best we can do is hope that they will find the strength from our encouragement to activate a course of action. After that, we can only pray and not allow them to become totally dependent on us, for if left to suckle here they may never receive the help they truly need.

Re: THINKING OF YOU, ELLIOTT!!!

Suzanne D on 2/15/02 at 15:17 (073806)

I've written more than once about how much I appreciate each individual on this board, how much I've learned from everyone, and how I treasure the differences among us, so I won't elaborate on that.

It probably would be easier to follow the boards if we (me included) kept the social/support issues on this board and kept the other issues neatly in their categories on each of the other boards. But then we all are 'package deals' as you so well put it, and sometimes we overlap, I think. Just in my way of thinking, people are more important than keeping things neatly organized (You could tell that by looking at my house!:-)), so if someone needs support on another board, I try to help if I can. But as I learn, I am trying to give information, too, because I know we HAVE to have more than good thoughts to get well.

I probably AM boring in my writing style, but it is me, and I guess I hope others will allow me my differences as I do the same for them. While I read about the hippies and the excitement of my growing up years, I was at home in my little town, doing my homework, and going to 4-H and church events. I guess I have always been boring to some standards! :-)

But I think you know I accept you for who you are and never fall apart at what you or anyone else writes. And I am 'thinking of you', boring as that may seem :-), and I wish you well in your quest for better health and recovery.

Re: ELLIOTT!!! control issues?

Tammie on 2/15/02 at 17:10 (073814)

Dear Elliott, I am very sorry that you feel this way, you must be suffering imensley. As u know I can't spell or type , as well many other things. So forgive this for the moment! I don't really know what it is that I want to say, but I am really going to try. I feel as tho some or all may be directed in my direction. I do not wish others to take the rap so to speak.

You know that you have extordinary knowledge with thease feet troubles. Sometimes it seems even more then the dr.s seem to be able to provide. They also seem to look to u as many are directed to you for knowldge. I cannot speak for anyone but myself, I am a bit uneducated in ways to do things easily. The computor is a big machine with many features that I for one am still learning how to use. I am the one who is afraid to try new things, make changes in my life .Ilike a smoothe run. I have never worried about myself or my health or me period. I have always been a caregiver in all that I do. I wish I could explain myself to you, I am a very complex person, I have had a full life for a woman my age, with alot of grief. This does not excuse me from anything I want to say. But I believe the reason I sometimes find it VERY difficult to take care of my self. I am not sure you will understand this , I think that having thease foot troubles ,has been a eye opener.I have ALWAYS had control over my body and my life from late teens till now. This has been a devistation to me and my life. I have struggled each day each time that a change has occured in this feet issue.

I have fought so hard to ignore it or denie it ,that I have forgotten HOW to help myself. I have never trusted my self in taking care of me there was a time i couldnt and that has remained with me.I can and do take care of everyone else, but never think of me.This is new, I am frightened as this has been much longer and ungiving then anything I have expieranced in my health and life. This also has shown me that i am not imortal so to speak. I am a frightened woman often very alone searching for someone to fix me so that I don't have to think about me. I want that old feeling back that i am invinceable. My family sees me as the strong one, little do they know I am quivering in fear.I have been trying a bit harder to DO something to help MYSELF , maybe not what U want me to do . But a start. I MADE the appt to see a dr. all by myself, he promised me the mri that u said was so important and a start to take with me.

It was the dr. who would not do this as he had his ideas. He is the one with the degree as he told me, He is the one with the special knowledge to dx me.. How should I know if he is right or wrong? Who DO I trust? I was devestated when I went and he told me this. I panic I wanted to just die or cut my limb off myself. I have a feeling you understand this feeling. I paniced and came here where it is safe and know that there would be answers or advice to set me straight! And yes also keep my head on right and not allow me to do anything foolish . I am sorry that I upset you. There is more to feet then the feet there is the heart and the soul my friend. We are uniqe in human beings each of us express and live in a different way. I have Always been in charge the one to not panic. Now I panic because I am not strong any longer. I am out of control with myself. Also I do try to research, in fact i have doone massive research on this rsd stuff. Thankfully some loving friends cared enough to point me in the direction of sites. If I am distressing u then dont look at my posts. I am extreamly sorry, I look to your posts as they are full of knowledge. I look to others if I need support and direction in my life. Maybe I am selfish but for this time in my life I have to be to survive, do U remember this feeling? Humor for me is not funny I am sorry, pain rules my life and I do not feel like doing to much laughing unless it is at myself. That is safe. I will chill a bit but I must say again I am grateful to all the loving support I have had.If it had not been given I ight not have been here today to say I am sorry. Simple as that. I am sorry that I am weak. But I understand what you are feeling to , no control to make ME do what u think i should. It is hard when you lose control isint it? In all cases I do appreciate you. Gosh I am in trouble this is very long. Please accept each of us as we are, as well as we accept you.As this is what makes a board special and useful even if you do not want the support. If and when I get in control of ME again I hope to be able to reach out to others,for the moment I have to reach out for help.I am learning about how to take cre of myself.But being a father & husband, you should understand the unselfishness of taking care of others first and forgetting what you might need. I am that way.

Re: THINKING OF YOU, ELLIOTT!!!

John h on 2/15/02 at 18:42 (073820)

Hey Wendy: I have changed several times in my life. Currently I am back where I started (Mr. Hyde).

Re: THINKING OF YOU, ELLIOTT!!!

Laurie R on 2/15/02 at 18:58 (073822)

Hi Elloitt , You have a right to your opinion and so do I . To me this sounds like you want everyone to post like you , well my friend we are all different with different needs .... You have much to offer . If you don't like something or if it is to supportive for you don't read it ...

I happen to love the great support I have gotten here. Not everyone is as smart as you ... I have appreciated all you have done here...I posted a question to you and a few others on the treatment board , everyone else gave me their advise , but you did not. That is ok if you don't want to help me , I don't take it personal .

Some of us like and need the support , if we end a post with 'much love ' or hugs , I see nothing wrong with it ... If you do , like I said don't read it .

It seems like you want this board and everyone on it just like you. Well sorry we are all not like you , that is what makes this board so cool.

Just my opinion on your post .....

Laurie R

Re: ELLIOTT!!! control issues?RE Tammie

Laurie R on 2/15/02 at 19:01 (073823)

Dear Tammie , Now this is just my opinion , but you have nothing at all to be sorry about ..... I don't want to fight with anyone here at all ... You can write any way you want , also if you get the support you need here , don't change for anyone . Be yourself , I love your post , you have always been so wonderful to everyone . I need people like you in my life and I am so glad you and I have become friends .. I feel very blessed to have met you ... I am here to help you in anyway I can ....

Much love to you always , Laurie R

Re: THINKING OF YOU, ELLIOTT!!!

Nancy N on 2/15/02 at 20:01 (073828)

Elliott--

Maybe I shouldn't jump in here, because I haven't been following the board in detail lately. But this is not the first time you have made this kind of plea, and frankly, 'shouldn't' has never been much of a deterrent for me.

Like others here, I appreciate your knowledge. I personally benefitted from the discussion about exercise balls a few weeks ago. Knowledge is a terrible thing to waste. But it's also a terrible thing to lord over people.

Now, before anyone jumps down my throat, let me clarify. You say that there's not enough discussion of treatments. You say that there are too many people who won't do their own homework. But you seem to be forgetting that there are new people who come to this site every day, who have just been diagnosed and are in a panic, desperately seeking something that will help them. Yes, in a perfect world they should read the PF book before they post. But surely you have, at some point in your life, been in a similar situation and been so upset and frantic that you didn't read all the small print, such as the print on the board index that says 'Read the PF book before posting'? You're as human as the rest of us--I certainly didn't read the whole book before posting the first time, because I had just had my first FDA study OrthoWave treatment and felt worse than when I went in, and was absolutely terrified. Should I be taken out and flogged for not doing my own homework first? Frankly, that's what I thought I was doing when I posted, and that's also how I discovered a very supportive, informative, and helpful community.

(And as for the 'emotional' stuff, as you put it, can you honestly say that you have not been upset or even depressed over your PF? I know I was, and I don't ever want to go back there again. When people are in pain, and feel desperate, panicked, depressed, or any number of other emotions, I don't think we can honestly expect them to adhere to a bunch of guidelines within their posts--just as we can't completely separate our emotional sides from our logical sides. Let's be reasonable, we are all these things all the time.)

I know that the PF book is a great repository of information. I know that there are other sites out there (though none as good as this one, I hasten to add). But I also know that there are a finite number of PF treatments. Does that mean that every single one of them should be written up in a 'book' for people to read? That would all but eliminate the need for the boards altogether, except perhaps for the Social board.

Even if we didn't go that far, it's not fair to blame others for a perceived lack of discussion of 'serious' topics unless you have actively attempted to get such discussions going--and by that I mean posting questions, posting information you have found, and inviting people's comments. I do not mean posts that say 'We don't discuss this stuff enough.' If we're not discussing something you think we should be, it's your responsibility to raise the topic.

And lastly, it's not fair to compare one community to another--it's the old apples vs. oranges business. As a high-school teacher I can tell you beyond all shadow of doubt that no two groups have the same dynamic, because no two groups contain the same combination of personalities. It's especially unfair to say 'Take me as I am, I'm not going to change,' while you're asking others to change instead.

I don't mean this as an attack, I'm just pointing out the things I see. I suppose you can vilify me if you want, I got used to that a few months ago and today I am not in the mood to care. I call it as I see it, just as you do, so we should be able to respect each other. If not, well, I tried.

Re: Helloooooo Elliott!!!!!!

Carmen H on 2/15/02 at 20:19 (073832)

Hey ...I am not going to post a load here but I am going to say what works for me.
'Take what you want and leave the rest'
The only way to stay sane in an opinionated world.
I hear you Elliott....loud and clear....
Being who each one of us is makes this board unique...and whaether you like it or not you add to it my friend.
If you don't believe me just read YOUR post....;-)

Re: Scott, any way to reconfigure the "search" feature

BrianG on 2/15/02 at 21:02 (073835)

Just throwing my 2 or 3 cents in here. I think the emotional support for a lot of posters is most important. There are times that I would like to see people, both new and old, use the search feature more. Unfortunatly I find it is not user friendly. I go to look something up, and it takes me back a couple years, and then stops at 200 posts. If possible, I don't see why the search feature can't just use the topic names, instead of the whole posting. It wouldn't take up as much space, and would be easier to find what your looking for.

I think if 'search' was more user friendly, it's possible we wouldn't see the same questions coming up time and time again. Elliott could then take a break, and the posters could have a better understanding of the subject, before throwing out questions, and pleas for help.

Just one man's thoughts
BrianG

PS It might be good to make the letter's of the word SEARCH larger, so they will stand out more.

Re: Scott, any way to reconfigure the "search" feature

Carmen H on 2/15/02 at 21:03 (073837)

I agree!
Good point!

Re: Searching

Carole C in NOLA on 2/15/02 at 21:19 (073841)

Good point. Scott mentioned in a post a few weeks ago that he no longer reads the board due to recent time constraints, so you might want to e-mail him on this matter.

Meanwhile, if you search on something more specific you'll get fewer posts returned. For example, don't search on Birkenstocks, search on Floridas. Don't search on orthotics, search on medial post. That way you'll get fewer posts in the results.

I was really surprised when I only got a few posts on a search of 'suppinate', until I realized it's spelled 'supinate'. Then I was flooded with them. (grin)

Carole C

Re: Scott, any way to reconfigure the "search" feature

Glennx on 2/15/02 at 21:52 (073846)

Brian: Scott shared a little trick to help filter posts some weeks ago. Typing brian.+11/../01 shows just those posts in November of 2001 containing the word 'Brian.' Note the period between brian and +. There are probably other querying formats that would be helpful too, but this little trick one has been useful to me.

Re: Searching

BrianG on 2/15/02 at 21:58 (073847)

OK, I forwarded it off to Scott, thanks....B

Re: Easier, not harder

BrianG on 2/15/02 at 22:15 (073849)

I remember Scott mentioning something about this little 'code'. I'm sorry, but it's just too complicated for me, or probably 90% of the other people using search. I'm talking about making search 'User Friendly' !!

BrianG

PS Glenn, your not a programer, are you :*)
PPS This code only works when you know the date your looking for. Dates are not how I remember things. I remember them by the key words that were used. You have to remember, we are chronic painers, and some of us taking some pretty powerful meds. Easier is better !!

Re: Social support is a vital part of the Board

Beverly on 2/15/02 at 22:28 (073850)

I've been here two years... from early stage PF through bad PF through a myraid of ankle problems. I've learned many valuable treatment ideas here.
This does not mean I tried them all. Some did not sound wise for me. Some were helpful and I tried them. Some seemed harmless and couldn't hurt trying, ect...

But what has kept me here are the friends I have made on this Board. It is the emotional support I needed most... especially as time passed and it became harder to learn something new that my numerous doctors, PT's, and time reading this Board had not already been offered.

The Board is well divided into catagories. I think that for the most part, we do a good job staying within the catagories.
Beverly

Re: Easier, not harder

Julie on 2/16/02 at 03:17 (073860)

I feel that the most useful way to make the Search facility more user-friendly would be to reverse the order of the posts, so that the 200 posts that a search turns up are the most recent ones, not the oldest. But this has been suggested before, and Scott has said that an enormous amount of work would be involved in making that change - more than he has time to do.

Re: To Tammie

Julie on 2/16/02 at 08:56 (073873)

Tammie, I don't think Elliott was getting at you more than at anyone else; his post was meant for us all (or at least for most of us). You've no reason to be upset, so please try not to be. It's important right now that you keep as calm as you can, so that you can think clearly about your next steps. So don't add unnecessarily to your difficulties.

Elliott has a lot of valuable knowledge, and has often shared it fully and kindly with others, including yourself, but I don't think he realizes how uncomfortable his sometimes biting criticisms of the way others express themselves can make people. I would be terribly sorry if those whose strength is their open-hearted capacity to feel the pain of others and give support were now discouraged from writing and feeling as is natural to them. (On whatever board: threads develop as they develop, and can't always be neatly controlled). We're all different, and each of us has his or her own special contribution to make here. For example, the compassion that you unfailingly show to others is greatly valued here: I'm sure you know that.

By the way, I said that I thought I could help you with learning to relax, and I've been expecting an email from you. Do get in touch.

Re: Search rules

Glennx on 2/16/02 at 11:17 (073885)

Brian: I agree. This is not a particularly friendly way to search. I had to test it several times to get the formatting right, and still am not sure I understand the coding.

It works for things other than dates. Here are two 'rules' I think work for searching heelspurs.

1. Period plus (.+) combines words in a search, without their having to be next to each other
2. period period (..) limits search results to a date range (.. is like a wildcard)

Example 1. Put a period and a plus sign (.+) between ALL the keywords you want to see in the posts you're interested in. Searching on:

stretching.+dorsiflexion.+angle

would show only those posts that include all three of these words. They don't have to be in this order, or next to each other. That can narrow things a lot.

Example 2. Use two periods when you want to narrow your search by dates, say to more recent posts. Searching on:

stretching.+../../01.+careful

would show only those posts that contain both 'stretching' and 'careful' and were posted in 2001. We're using the (..) wildcard for month AND for day, meaning we want to see ANY month and ANY day, but just the year 01. (Note that we're still putting a period and a plus sign (.+) between everything we want to combine.

Again, I haven't tested all of the variations possible with these 'rules.' But a little experimentation can make them a little more familia,r and they may help some. And there might be other rules.

No, I am not a programmer, though I've done a fair amount of design and use work with 'front-end' databases such as Filemaker and Access. Even so, I still had to struggle with the heelspurs code.

One other quirk I've noticed is that searches don't always pick up real recent posts. Scott may have to occasionally 'archive' posts (or something) to make them searchable. Not sure.

Even this wordy 'explanation' is far from user-friendly; and if this still doesn't seem to work, leave me a post describing some keywords you might like to search on. I'll be happy to give it a try.

Re: Easier, not harder

Glennx on 2/16/02 at 11:25 (073886)

Hey Julie: I've struggled with 'old' posts too. Buried in my 'search rules' post is a workaround. On the chance you don't see it . . .

Use two periods when you want to narrow your search by dates, say to more recent posts. Searching on:

stretching.+../../01.+careful

would show only those posts that contain both 'stretching' and 'careful' and were posted in 2001. We're using the (..) wildcard for month AND for day, meaning we want to see ANY month and ANY day, but just the year 01. (Note that we're still putting a period and a plus sign (.+) between everything we want to combine.

I've sometimes just worked my way backwards with this technique to get at the posts I'm interested in.

Re: Easier, not harder

Julie on 2/16/02 at 11:39 (073889)

Thanks Glenn. Sounds complicated, but workable. I'll try it.

Re: John

wendyn on 2/16/02 at 11:52 (073891)

John - you're right - people CAN change.

But I don't think you can change THEM.

People make changes in their life, when and if they choose to do so.

Re: Suzanne

Julie on 2/16/02 at 12:49 (073894)

No, Suzanne, you are not boring: not you, and not your writing style.

I don't think you were the target of that particular remark, but that's what happens when a blanket barbed criticism is made: someone will always take it to heart. It's totally out of order, not to mention unkind, for anyone here to suggest that anyone else here is boring.

Re: I tried it and encouraging angle of dorsiflexion

Carole C in NOLA on 2/16/02 at 13:37 (073900)

I tried it just now, and searched on two of the words Glenn used: dorsiflexion and angle.

Interestingly, although I found a few posts in which people were reporting abysmally insufficient angles of dorsiflexion, and some in which they reported vague improvement in their dorsiflexion, I didn't notice any posts quantifying what an adequate/normal/humdrum angle of dorsiflexion would be. Mine is somewhere between 12-15 degrees from the horizontal when I sit with my lower leg vertical and measure how far I can lift my foot by dorsiflexing with the heel still touching the floor. That was much more than others have reported here in the past! I'm healing so fast. :)

Carole C

Re: Suzanne

Suzanne D on 2/16/02 at 14:13 (073910)

Thanks, Julie. I guess I might be considered too sensitive as I take most things to heart. Of course my 'package deal' includes the fact that most days do not go by without my being criticized or sharply spoken to at home; but that's another complex issue more difficult for me even than PF and not one that I expect any help with here. It's just that it's a part of my life and makes me rather vulnerable. I try to treat each and every person as I would like to be treated, whether they treat me that way or not. It's the only way I have peace.

The people on this site have been very good to me, and for that I will be everlastingly grateful. And I do feel that I am boring sometimes with all my first grade stories, but I share who I am, and that is all I have to share.

God bless us every one. :-)

Re: Search rules

BrianG on 2/16/02 at 14:18 (073912)

Thats OK Glenn, I don't have anything at the moment that I need to look for. I'm just thinking about what would be best for the majority of the people. If 'search' is too much of a pain in the butt, people won't use it.

Laters
BrianG

Re: Suzanne

Carole C in NOLA on 2/16/02 at 14:25 (073913)

Suzanne, your first grade stories are fascinating, not boring! I am so sad to hear that such a wonderful person as you would be criticized or sharply spoken to ever, much less on a daily basis. You do not deserve that any more than you deserve foot pain, which you don't; as far as I can tell you are an intelligent, hard working, giving, sweet, and beautiful person.

Carole C

Re: Suzanne

nancy s. on 2/16/02 at 17:17 (073925)

hi suzanne, i've been busy and haven't been able to post much lately, but i want to wholeheartedly second julie's post to you.
i also want to ask you not to let ANYONE make you believe you're 'too' sensitive. people who take things to heart do have sensitivity, and it's something much needed in this world -- it can make you more sensitive to what others are going through, and i think there's 'too' little ability on the part of some people to empathize with others in this fast-paced, competitive, 'only I count' world.
i do think it's great to have a variety of personalities in our lives and on this board -- and the variety works best when one certain kind of personality isn't trying to make everyone else conform to his own style. how boring would that be! duh!
you're not 'too' sensitive. you're just sensitive, and it's a multi-faceted and welcome quality.
nancy

Re: Suzanne

Julie on 2/16/02 at 17:29 (073926)

Nancy has just taken the words right out of my mouth. You're certainly NOT 'too sensitive', Suzanne. You're open, perceptive, innately considerate, and very down to earth, and you have a great ability to empathize with a variety of people and their problems. All this comes from being sensitive, and I absolutely agree with Nancy that that is a wonderful quality - and there's no 'too' about it.

And now I'm off to bed. Enjoy the rest of your evening, everyone - it's getting on for my morning.

Re: Suzanne

Shelley G on 2/16/02 at 17:35 (073927)

Hi, Suzanne. As I once told the pastor I worked for/with...'It's not a sin, a crime or a weakness to have a gentle, sensitive spirit.' Just to let you know, I wasn't aiming that statement at him personally! :+)

Re: easy for you to say

elliott on 2/16/02 at 19:41 (073938)

It's not your humor others are jumping on.

Can you answer a question for me? Is there too much emotional stuff on these boards for your taste? Honest, now.

--

Re: very eloquent (nm)

elliott on 2/16/02 at 19:41 (073939)

.

Re: no, not thinking of you

elliott on 2/16/02 at 19:47 (073941)

just THINKING OF YOU!! (in the good sense).

--

Re: LOL! kind words from you indeed!

elliott on 2/16/02 at 19:57 (073942)

I didn't say anyone was boring. I said there is a boring PC *standard* here. That is what I said. I stand by that. I don't think it's totally out of order or so unkind to say so. I wonder if any others might view it as out of order for you to suggest I'm out of order. :-)

---

Re: Elliott -

wendyn on 2/16/02 at 20:44 (073943)

All your responses are at the bottom of the thread - it makes it difficult to tell who you are addressing your questions to.

Can you put a name in front when you're directing at one person?

Re: LOL! kind words from you indeed!

Nancy N on 2/16/02 at 20:44 (073944)

You know, Elliott, I don't get this 'PC standard' thing you keep talking about. Since when is being nice and treating each other with respect a 'boring PC standard?' And if it has to do with your perceived lack of a sense of humor on this board, I suggest you do a search on 'Huey Lewi' and see what you find. This is one community that is NOT lacking a funny bone.

Re: Humor

wendyn on 2/16/02 at 20:49 (073945)

Since I can't tell who you're humor question is directed at, I'll answer it.

Elliott - if there is too much emotional stuff for me - I just go by it. It is not a big deal. For me. I'm not a real huggy feely person - but people who are do not upset me.

I also find it's getting rather boring for me personally, that you continue to try to dictate how everyone else should feel and behave.

Any chance you could move on to something different?

Re: easy for you to say

wendyn on 2/16/02 at 20:50 (073946)

Ah - I see now - I have trouble with who things are directed at because I read the threads backwards. My apologies....

It's still easier if you add a name in thought...

Re: easy for you to say

nancy s. on 2/16/02 at 21:08 (073949)

wendy, it's hard to comprehend without a name when you're reading forwards, too. you may walk like a duck, but your brain does just fine.
your request may be too pc or too humorless or too sensitive, though, so don't get your hopes up.
goodnight now. i'm too tired and had too good a day and ate too much stew and my hair is too tangled and my socks are too black and i'm in too good a mood, so i'm going to get too much sleep.
nancy

Re: LOL! kind words from you indeed!

Nancy N on 2/16/02 at 21:30 (073951)

You know, Elliott, I don't get this 'PC standard' thing you keep talking about. Since when is being nice and treating each other with respect a 'boring PC standard?' And if it has to do with your perceived lack of a sense of humor on this board, I suggest you do a search on 'Huey Lewi' and see what you find. This is one community that is NOT lacking a funny bone.

Re: no, I don't want everyone to be just like me

elliott on 2/16/02 at 22:00 (073954)

There'd be too much chaos around here. :-) But I think it's sad when too many others seem to be too alike. And I will give you an example of exactly what I mean. Why, after months of support for her but with Tammie still drifting in pain, with visible swelling no less, and without medical attention, did it have to be me to be the only one to scream at her to get an MRI and see a competent doc? Mindboggling. And then when she comes on distraught that the doctor she finally got to see didn't treat her nice and dismissed her complaints, the vast majority came on to give her just emotional support as always (well, she needed it), and on just about every board, including the non-Support ones (well, she posted on just about every board). But there were hardly any posts telling her these things happen, try and get over it, and that the important thing is to see another doc who can help her get a diagnosis long overdue. A few did get around to saying something along those lines and discussed RSD, but by far it was mainly emotional support as always. I don't think a single poster on any board told her she must also try and find out if she still has TTS which, given her unusual TTS surgery, is still a real possibility. Amazing.

She doesn't really want to hear such advice from a member of the Evil Empire, even if she invokes his name. She really needs to hear it from her shining lights, her kind, sensitive hero(ine)s who've always been there for her. And I thought that advice was glaringly missing, as it often is. Again, all those hugs are only gonna go so far. I'm not trying to sound mean or tell anyone what they have to post; on the contrary, my intentions are sincere. Too little commonsense advice from a vast number of supportive posters, IMHO indicative of some of the shortcomings I perceive here but which are considered too taboo for any sensitive human being to mention.

Regarding your post on the treatment board, you say, 'everyone else gave me their advise , but you did not. That is ok if you don't want to help me , I don't take it personal.'

Sounds like you already did. :-) Like I once said, I think about you and the suffering you go through often. But by the time I got around to that thread, others had already given you great advice, e.g. keeping copies of everything, and having your history typed out on a single page so the doc can quickly get a summary of your case. The only thing I was contemplating adding was to post a copy of my own single page I just used recently which I thought might be of help for you to use as a guideline to construct your own, but I decided against it because I just don't want everyone to read my history, nor do I wish to give out my email address. I'm sorry.

--

Re: no need to tell me twice :-) (nm)

elliott on 2/16/02 at 22:02 (073955)

.

Re: ATTN wendyn and nancy s: good night!

elliott on 2/16/02 at 22:27 (073958)

And nancy s, it would've helped to mention wendyn in your post title. :-)

--

Re: Hey Wendy and Nancy re mysterious responses

Julie on 2/17/02 at 03:27 (073970)

You can figure out who a poster is responding by looking at the index. The responses themselves show up in order of posting, so a new one always goes to the bottom, but in the index its title appears below the post to which it is a response. You're quite right, though: it facilitates identification if a name is used (or if the responder sticks to the original poster's title so the two can be matched up).

I'm not trying to dictate proper posting technique, though: heaven forbid!

Re: Elliott

Julie on 2/17/02 at 04:36 (073972)

It is not true that Tammie received 'hardly any posts telling her these things happen, try and get over it, and that the important thing is to see another doc who can help her get a diagnosis long overdue'. Several posts - Suzanne's, Dr Z's, Shelley's, Laurie's, Janet's and mine - told her exactly that. In different ways, because we're all different.

Tammie's 'kind, sensitive heroines', as you call them/us, have been concerned about her for many months, and have consistently counselled her for months, here and in emails, to get second and third opinions, to actively seek the help she needs elsewhere. You have given her as much support as anyone (yes, information and hard truths are supportive too) but you are certainly not 'the only one'.

Tammie was grateful to you for 'telling it like it is' the other day, and she said so. She does not regard you as a 'member of the Evil Empire', but as a friend with her interest at heart. (I'm speaking for her intentionally, to try and save her writing a long, emotional post telling you this herself: she doesn't need to do that, she needs to calm down and think about what she is going to do next.) I think everyone thought you did the right thing, and that it was brave of you to do it. And it will probably have the right effect once the poor girl has got over the shock of this recent unfortunate doctor visit.

You did a good job. So don't spoil it all by remonstrating with her for not immediately getting on her horse and finding another doctor. She'll do it, but the more upset she is, the longer it will take.

Re: Re

elliott on 2/17/02 at 09:35 (073976)

As long as you're going to the trouble of changing the post title, in future you may want to consider deleting the superfluous 'Re:'.

I'm not trying to dictate proper posting technique, though: heaven forbid!

Re: Too bad Elliott never responds to MY questions back to him.

wendyn on 2/17/02 at 10:41 (073979)

I'm hurt.

I was another one who posted a factual post back to Tammie - asking her about her next doctors appointment, and explaining what I know about RSD. But alas, in the end there was an insufficient quota of factual posts vs support posts, and I for one missed the memo indicating the new 'Ratio Required To Keep Elliott Quiet'.

In my often not so humble opinion - whether or not she has, had, or still has TTS is secondary. TTS does not spread. RSD does. Maybe you are still too hung up on the TTS diagnosis because RSD is beyond the scope of the things you know well? Just a thought.

Regardless, I still think most of your behaviour here is not in the best interest of yourself or the board. I think you're uninterested in discussing anything by email off the board - and I'm guessing that it's because it wouldn't generate enough attention for you- it would just be a plain old boring debate or discussion.

Finally, I'd really think more of you if you would lay off going after people on the board who are in too much pain or distress to have the energy to justify their continued existence to you.

Pick on someone your own size.

Re: Nancy

wendyn on 2/17/02 at 11:03 (073986)

That's funny Nancy - I can't remember if I mentioned it here or not...a few friends and I went to a new night club recently.

By the time we left, we had concluded that it was

Too crowded
Too smokey
Too loud
Too late

and that we were just

Too old!

Re: To Elliott no, I don't want everyone to be just like me

Pauline on 2/17/02 at 12:21 (073997)

Elliott,
The points you made have been heard, but are just not being well received. The one thing that I think you keep forgetting is the fact that you, I or anyone posting on this site have NO POWER, to change anyone else.

You can post and offer all the advice you want and scream as often and as loud as you want the answer you think is best, but the fact still remains is the only person in charge of their body is the person who's body it is.
They have the final say and decision if they want to move into a course of action or are simply satisfied with conditions as they are.

The only way you can invoke change is to change yourself, and I think you know this. So instead of continuing to feed people advice which you feel they are not taking, and allowing them to becomming dependent on you, why not simply reply when asked for advice ' I think Your health issues have grown to such an extent I would be putting your health at risk if, as a layman, I continue to provide information that should really come from a medical professional' or something similar. Providing this type of answer you must realize is will require practice, because most people are conditioned to follow the same more comfortable paths they have been down before.

But, this way you no longer need to feel put-upon nor frustrated, because you've removed yourself from the equation. As long as you continue to be involved or allow others to involve you in a situation which is going no where, you will continue to get the same result.

You cannot expect others to change to meet your expectations, but you have the power to change the degree to which you are willing to get involved. By varying your involvment you stop the mothering, gain back the control in your life which you are seeking, eliminate dependency of others on you, and stop the frustration you are feeling because other posters havent reacted to the advice you offered. Life is good again, unless you too
really are not seeking a solution to the problems you want other to correct.

Re: easy for you to say

John h on 2/17/02 at 12:52 (074002)

there is a lot of emotional stuff elliott but for many people that helps and for many that is all they have to hang on to. for my part they can emotionalize all they want. i may not throw it out there like some but when my feet were at their worst i sure wanted to but caught up in that big boys don' cry syndrome.

Re: Pauline

wendyn on 2/17/02 at 17:37 (074037)

Pauline, you and I have had differences of opinion in the past - but despite the fact we haven't always agreed - I have tremendous respect for your ideas, and the way you treat people (even when you don't agree with them).

I sure like you.

Re: ATTN wendyn and nancy s: good night!

nancy s. on 2/17/02 at 18:12 (074043)

elliott, i don't necessarily need a name in the post title. (i guess this replies to julie's post to me about this also.) as long as there's a name some damn place in the post, i have some context for it.

i read the board by using the 'view all message since last visit' thingy. so i'm reading a whole list of often unrelated posts, and i'd like to know who they're to so i know what they're about, without having to go to the specific board and look it all up. i try to read everything, but i don't have time to go to each board and examine each thread, trying to find a post i read in the 'view all' list in order to understand its context.

i don't know if this is coherent at the moment -- because i've had too long a day and am trying too hard to unwind (john h, do you catch my drift?), and my brain is too happy but too foggy, and as wendy says i'm too old also (tonight only).
nancy

Re: wendyn

elliott on 2/17/02 at 21:52 (074074)

Even by my standards, I thought your tone was rather strident.

Completely disagree about TTS being secondary, especially with the unusual surgery that transpired. Not that RSD is a certainty yet either. One can go to random doctors for RSD and get random evaluations, or one can go to a doc with great TTS experience who not only knows TTS but has seen loads of failed surgical cases resulting in RSD and who knows how to diagnose it and treat it or at least refer to the doc that does. Regardless, no one ever said to wait a long time before seeing a doctor and allow something possibly to spread.

For such a smart lady, it's amazing how you continue to misread what I'm all about, not that I'll spill all the beans to correct you. Regarding email, there's both a time and a stress issue I just don't want to deal with (such correspondence, once started, seems to take on a life of its own). And I'm the type to be close friends with just one or two rather than the whole world. I keep an email conversation with a woman who once visited this board and who no longer posts nor visits here. Probably because she is a sufferer, she understands heel pain better than my wife (who is great to me). We're from very different backgrounds, yet it's a match, however these things happen. We talk a lot about other things too (but not about these boards at all), about life in general and of course how our feet affect it. Call that my heel pain social needs. I honestly don't want private social email correspondence with anyone else; I am content with what I have, given my time constraints and desires. That's all there is to it. Nothing to do with attention-getting or lack of it. If you don't want to believe me, that's fine too. But maybe think twice before throwing out speculation about me.

TTS is an interesting and complicated beast. It's amazing how easy it is even for great docs to make a major mistake with it. They are relying on your description of pain as to whether you have TTS, whether surgery is warranted, and what type to perform. We have to be our own advocates. Read a lot, find out a lot, express yourself well, and you and your doc can be more certain you have what you think you have. As one example, come in to the doc and say, 'gee, my feet are numb' instead of saying 'the numbness started in my toes and has been moving backwards since' and the diagnosis and treatment might be very different in each case. I myself was 10 days away from a major surgery--the wrong surgery--cancelled only because my other foot blew up in pain. It is only now that I feel I know enough to likely avoid such a mistake. A focus more on a careful exchange of information about such things to prevent such tragedies from happening and increasing our chances of finding the right path to healing is what I see in a TTS board. Maybe I have a different vision of what these boards should be about, but hey, I see others do not share it and can accept that.

Not sure what questions left unanswered you're talking about. Sometimes it's better for another to have the last word even if I have something to say back; things can go too far.

Re: well, I'm beginning to wonder

elliott on 2/17/02 at 22:32 (074083)

are we selfish if we don't include some obvious reference in order to make the task of the 'view all messages' users easier?

I mainly use that feature at work because it's more expedient a method just to manage to read posts there, given my dreadfully slow computer. I also use it at home to see if there are any new posts wherever and maybe to do a find on topics of interest (e.g. 'elliott' :-)). But when I want to see the logical development of a thread, I must click on the respective board. You guys must be geniuses if you can visualize that without going to the board.

--

Re: wendyn/ elliott

nancy s. on 2/17/02 at 22:44 (074084)

just thought i'd mention that it was this website, with the people posting on it, that saved me from unnecessary EPF surgery for my plantar fasciitis. my nonthinking pod had me scheduled for it after only eight months of pf, and without trying most of the usual conservative measures first.

i got nervous about the surgery, and found and posted to this board in december 1999. three people immediately responded that 'surgery is a last resort' and 'eight months is way too soon to be considering surgery,' told me why, and offered other suggestions. one of those three people who saved me was wendy. at that time, the board was just one board, not split up into sections, and no doctors were posting here.

since that day, i've learned a million valuable pieces of information here that helped get me eventually to the 90% better point -- and received a lot of support during depression and despair -- and had more laughs than i can count -- and gained inspiration that will probably help get me through anything else difficult in the future.

i can't think of a thing lacking here.
nancy

Re: well, I'm beginning to wonder

Carole C in NOLA on 2/17/02 at 22:55 (074085)

Elliott, while the rest of us here may all be geniuses or at least gifted with outstanding insight... :)

.. I don't think that genius is responsible for our ease in reading the message board. I think that most of us do not have the difficulty you have had in accessing the individual message boards, and we simply go there and read them.

Carole C

Re: PF is baby stuff compared to TTS :-) (nm)

elliott on 2/17/02 at 23:33 (074090)

.

Re: The board in general

wendyn on 2/17/02 at 23:36 (074092)

Not only did the board save me from surgery - it also probably saved me from a very risky cortisone shot (to an already damaged post tib tendon) that may have been a huge mistake.

I got enough information and support from others that I was able to take control of my own medical care.

It also saved my sanity. Although...some would disagree....

;)

Re: easy for you to say - to John

Julie on 2/18/02 at 03:19 (074101)

John, no, you don't 'throw it out there' much, but you're always awake to what's going on for others, and you are always there on the ground with genuine sympathy, real support, and useful, factual information. That 'big boys don't cry' business is the burden of your/our generation; it comes with the territory, and unless it makes life harder for you (I hope it doesn't) it's ok. But the important thing, the really important thing, is that the REAL big boys don't make other boys or girls cry. And you're one of the real ones. No question.

Re: Suzanne

JudyS on 2/18/02 at 14:11 (074185)

Suzanne - 'Boring' is not a word I could imagine applying to you. To tell you the truth, I've enjoyed all your 'first-grade' stories both because of their exclusive content, and also because they say so much about the quality person/teacher you are. Please don't stop.

Re: easy for you to say

JudyS on 2/18/02 at 14:15 (074188)

NancyS, I sincerely hope you're in 'too good' a mood because your Nantique opening was a success? :)

Re: Re To Elliott : PF is baby stuff compared to TTS :-) (nm)

Pauline on 2/18/02 at 16:36 (074215)

And TTS is baby stuff compared to Bone Cancer, so what's your point?

Re: Re To Elliott : PF is baby stuff compared to TTS :-) (nm)

Julie on 2/18/02 at 17:22 (074235)

Right on, Pauline.

I've just spent the afternoon with my yoga class for people with cancer.

One woman is facing a mastectomy and is anxious and frightened.

Another has just had treatment for a recurrence of bladder cancer.

A third has just been told that her prognosis (already poor because her breast cancer was a stage 4) is now worse because she recently had a recurrence.

It's important to keep a sense of proportion.

Re: easy for you to say

nancy s. on 2/18/02 at 17:54 (074241)

yes, judy, nice of you to remember! the opening was wonderful in every way -- many old antiquing buddies lined up outside the door in the morning and stayed for a long time; many neighbors came, one even bringing me a gorgeous peach-colored rose, another one a cop here who loves old things (he bought an old canadian traffic signal i had, which still works); and the day was full and rich in every way (many sales too). very festive and exciting and happy. after two days of this, today i'm a zombie and mostly sleeping ... and looking forward to opening up again on thursday morning.
thanks for asking. are you still going to drive east? (hope hope hope).
n.